Digest Number 395

[Guest guest]

angie is getting testy!!!

 

umm

we have a huge problem with cats not only killin birds, but bats..thats right,

bats..

and, cats can certainly kill a whole lot of voles, shrews, mice, bunnies, and

wot have you at nite..

no, i'm not sayin yer bad er someone should take yer kitties away

but, a cat can get killed just as easily at nite as during the day, heck, the

cars speed faster down my street at nite, speed bumbs er not..(i think they like

to catch air)..i just hope they don't turn some furry into a spped bump

so, wot are yer plans fer the humans angie? does it involve a large kettle, some

rice and a bunch of salt?

fraggle

" Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

 

>My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide

>when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother

>you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me ,

>But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them

>what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my

>employers ! .

>

> I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be

>too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish

>

>Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ?

>No !

>Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way

>a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left

>it , not so with a cat

>

>Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is

>because obviously we are all in the wrong . and  we haven't been

>listening to you.

>

>I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously

>right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat

>hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them

>.....I'll share them with you sometime

>

>

>Angie

>

>

>Peter [snowbow]

>10 July 2002 18:08

>

>Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>

>Hi Lesley

>

>> I'm very surprised at your attitude and I know a lot of vegans who

>love cats and value their companionship and would be quite

>> offended by what you are saying. What do you want to happen to the

>cats? Have them all exterminated?

>

>I would suggest having a large number of them neutered, so that they

>stop producing quite so many offspring - that would resolve the majority

>of the problem in around a decade. Most of the people I know who own

>cats throw them out of the house every night even in the depths of

>winter - not really what I'd classify as " valuing " them. I would suggest

>that there should be licenses issued for keeping cats which ensure that

>the owners take responsibility for the trouble caused by their pets -

>that way owners might ensure that they aren't a nuisance to others.

>

>> Killing small birds and mammals is natural for cats, you can't judge

>them the way you can human beings who should know

>> better.

>

>Cats have already been taken out of nature. Doesn't seem too much to ask

>owners to put bells on their collars - that way they wouldn't be able to

>kill birds.

>

>> My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats

>mostly bury their poos

>

>I'm sorry, Lesley, you are talking rubbish here.

>

>> it's dogs that just leave it and the owners who don't clear it up are

>the ones to blame.

>

>And it is a criminal offense to allow your *dog* to litter in a public

>place without clearing it up.

>

>> Responsible pet owners should not be

>> made to suffer for the behaviour of the irresponsible few.

>

>Exactly - the problem is, I've yet to meet a responsible cat owner (and

>that includes the vegans I know who own them) - there might be one or

>two, but they are in a very small minority!

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

>---

>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK

> " http://www.grisoft.com " http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>

>

[Guest guest]

cats and dogs run amok..i've seen em..they gather in little gangs..smoke dope,

harrass old ladies...

its all a nuisance i tells ya....someone should alert the authorities..i

recommend random drug testing fer all felines..them and there cat nip...

cheers

fraggle

 

" Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

 

>Did Lesley advocate them running amok ???? I must have missed that .

> I must go and exterminate all the cats in the shelter down the road

>before some humans decide to adopt them and over populate the place

>

>Angie

>

>

>EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

>10 July 2002 18:08

>

>RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

>

>ah gawd..its good to talk to you lesley..it certainly is interesting

>so, responsible pet owners shouldn't have to suffer fer irresponsible

>ones?

>i guess that doesn't matter a lick if they do drugs then huh?

>

>obviously we should all be pissin in cups and have random drug tests,

>but its ok if someone has 12 cats eating the neighborhood song birds...

>

>i can't speak fer peter, but i don't think he was advocating having them

>exterminated..i think he was advocating having folks be RESPONSIBLE pet

>owners..ewww..i said owner

>anyways..it maybe natural fer cats to eat birds, but it certainly is not

>natural fer there to be 20 cats per block, when there is one cat per 10

>miles in the wild...

>we brought this problem onto the world, we have to take responsibility

>fer it

>don't get me wrong, i luv my cat to death, and i luv dogs, weasels,

>ferrets, toads, ardvaarks, wot have you..but, if we are going to bring

>animal companions along, we have as much responsibility to make sure

>they don't go runnin amuk as we do trying to keep kids from shootin

>smack, wouldn't you say?

>fraggle

>

> " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote:

>

>>

>>I'm very surprised at your attitude and I know a lot of vegans who love

>cats

>>and value their companionship and would be quite offended by what you

>are

>>saying. What do you want to happen to the cats? Have them all

>exterminated?

>>I don't like the fact that they are carnivores but if I personally had

>a cat

>>now I would use Vegecat and feed it on vegan food (I know not all vegan

>cat

>>owners do this though).

>>Killing small birds and mammals is natural for cats, you can't judge

>them

>>the way you can human beings who should know better.

>>

>>My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats

>mostly

>>bury their poos, it's dogs that just leave it and the owners who don't

>clear

>>it up are the ones to blame. Responsible pet owners should not be made

>to

>>suffer for the behaviour of the irresponsible few.

>>

>>Lesley

>>

>>  

>>  Peter [snowbow]

>>  10 July 2002 17:12

>>  

>>  Re: Digest Number 395

>>

>>

>>  Hi Lesley

>>

>>  > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible

>pet

>>owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

>>  >  landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be

>put to

>>sleep.

>>

>>  Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here.

>In

>>our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in

>our

>>garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever

>wish to

>>do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous

>birds

>>and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our

>cars

>>and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

>>

>>  I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would

>make

>>our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild

>birds. It

>>might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having

>to

>>clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living in our

>>street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from

>all the

>>excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that

>children

>>should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be

>>exposed to cat sh*t.

>>

>>  People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them,

>cats are

>>nothing but a pain in the back side.

>>

>>  It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who

>you

>>effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

>>

>>  BB

>>  Peter

>>

>>

>>  ---

>>  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>>  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK

> " http://www.grisoft.com). " http://www.grisoft.com).

>>  Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>>

>>  To send an email to

>-

>>

>>  

[Guest guest]

-

<EBbrewpunx

 

Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:03 AM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

>

> well

> i wish you luck

 

Thanks, fraggle !

>

> and..i would have gone to yer site and bought stuff, but, um..the dog ate

my computer, and there is that silly lack of money thing..

 

Well, there's only femme stuff on there now and no offense or anything, but

I don't know how good boi fraggles look in pink...

 

-- jojo (currently website-less...)

[Guest guest]

I've never heard of that term before -- and it's such a good one. You mean

like a chamber pot? Or is that just for # 1's?

 

-- jojo

-

<EBbrewpunx

 

Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:57 PM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

> night soil...the poo you use to put in one of them lil urns at nite and

then dump out in the morn...

>

>

> " Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

>

> >Hi Fraggle

> >

> >> ah, as in night soil

> >

> >Ummm - if you say so *trying hard to look knowledgable*

> >

> >> nope..not really..

> >> we have more rather rude terms fer it here...

> >

> >Aha - we Brits do tend to be a bit more subtle! ;-)

> >

> >BB

> >Peter

> >

> >

> >---

> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

> >

> >

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

LOL! Stop it or I'm gonna wet my pants already, fraggle!!!

 

must...go...to...bed....

 

--jojo

-

<EBbrewpunx

 

Thursday, July 11, 2002 4:35 PM

RE: Digest Number 395

 

 

>

> cats and dogs run amok..i've seen em..they gather in little gangs..smoke

dope, harrass old ladies...

> its all a nuisance i tells ya....someone should alert the authorities..i

recommend random drug testing fer all felines..them and there cat nip...

> cheers

> fraggle

>

> " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

>

> >Did Lesley advocate them running amok ???? I must have missed that .

> > I must go and exterminate all the cats in the shelter down the road

> >before some humans decide to adopt them and over populate the place

> >

> >Angie

> >

> >

> >EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

> >10 July 2002 18:08

> >

> >RE: Digest Number 395

> >

> >

> >

> >ah gawd..its good to talk to you lesley..it certainly is interesting

> >so, responsible pet owners shouldn't have to suffer fer irresponsible

> >ones?

> >i guess that doesn't matter a lick if they do drugs then huh?

> >

> >obviously we should all be pissin in cups and have random drug tests,

> >but its ok if someone has 12 cats eating the neighborhood song birds...

> >

> >i can't speak fer peter, but i don't think he was advocating having them

> >exterminated..i think he was advocating having folks be RESPONSIBLE pet

> >owners..ewww..i said owner

> >anyways..it maybe natural fer cats to eat birds, but it certainly is not

> >natural fer there to be 20 cats per block, when there is one cat per 10

> >miles in the wild...

> >we brought this problem onto the world, we have to take responsibility

> >fer it

> >don't get me wrong, i luv my cat to death, and i luv dogs, weasels,

> >ferrets, toads, ardvaarks, wot have you..but, if we are going to bring

> >animal companions along, we have as much responsibility to make sure

> >they don't go runnin amuk as we do trying to keep kids from shootin

> >smack, wouldn't you say?

> >fraggle

> >

> > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote:

> >

> >>

> >>I'm very surprised at your attitude and I know a lot of vegans who love

> >cats

> >>and value their companionship and would be quite offended by what you

> >are

> >>saying. What do you want to happen to the cats? Have them all

> >exterminated?

> >>I don't like the fact that they are carnivores but if I personally had

> >a cat

> >>now I would use Vegecat and feed it on vegan food (I know not all vegan

> >cat

> >>owners do this though).

> >>Killing small birds and mammals is natural for cats, you can't judge

> >them

> >>the way you can human beings who should know better.

> >>

> >>My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats

> >mostly

> >>bury their poos, it's dogs that just leave it and the owners who don't

> >clear

> >>it up are the ones to blame. Responsible pet owners should not be made

> >to

> >>suffer for the behaviour of the irresponsible few.

> >>

> >>Lesley

> >>

> >>

> >> Peter [snowbow]

> >> 10 July 2002 17:12

> >>

> >> Re: Digest Number 395

> >>

> >>

> >> Hi Lesley

> >>

> >> > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible

> >pet

> >>owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

> >> > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be

> >put to

> >>sleep.

> >>

> >> Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here.

> >In

> >>our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in

> >our

> >>garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever

> >wish to

> >>do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous

> >birds

> >>and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our

> >cars

> >>and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

> >>

> >> I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would

> >make

> >>our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild

> >birds. It

> >>might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having

> >to

> >>clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living in our

> >>street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from

> >all the

> >>excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that

> >children

> >>should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be

> >>exposed to cat sh*t.

> >>

> >> People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them,

> >cats are

> >>nothing but a pain in the back side.

> >>

> >> It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who

> >you

> >>effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

> >>

> >> BB

> >> Peter

> >>

> >>

> >> ---

> >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK

> > " http://www.grisoft.com). " http://www.grisoft.com).

> >> Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

> >>

> >> To send an email to

> >-

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

you'd be surprised

or maybe the word is horrified...

whichever

cheers

fraggle

>

>Well, there's only femme stuff on there now and no offense or anything, but

>I don't know how good boi fraggles look in pink...

>

>-- jojo (currently website-less...)

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

like i said..vegan S & M group is needed...

 

" jojo " <tofujojo wrote:

 

>LOL!  Stop it or I'm gonna wet my pants already, fraggle!!!

>

>must...go...to...bed....

>

>--jojo

>-

><EBbrewpunx

>

>Thursday, July 11, 2002 4:35 PM

>RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

>>

>> cats and dogs run amok..i've seen em..they gather in little gangs..smoke

>dope, harrass old ladies...

>> its all a nuisance i tells ya....someone should alert the authorities..i

>recommend random drug testing fer all felines..them and there cat nip...

>> cheers

>> fraggle

>>

>> " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

>>

>> >Did Lesley advocate them running amok ???? I must have missed that .

>> > I must go and exterminate all the cats in the shelter down the road

>> >before some humans decide to adopt them and over populate the place

>> >

>> >Angie

>> >

>> >

>> >EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

>> >10 July 2002 18:08

>> >

>> >RE: Digest Number 395

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >ah gawd..its good to talk to you lesley..it certainly is interesting

>> >so, responsible pet owners shouldn't have to suffer fer irresponsible

>> >ones?

>> >i guess that doesn't matter a lick if they do drugs then huh?

>> >

>> >obviously we should all be pissin in cups and have random drug tests,

>> >but its ok if someone has 12 cats eating the neighborhood song birds...

>> >

>> >i can't speak fer peter, but i don't think he was advocating having them

>> >exterminated..i think he was advocating having folks be RESPONSIBLE pet

>> >owners..ewww..i said owner

>> >anyways..it maybe natural fer cats to eat birds, but it certainly is not

>> >natural fer there to be 20 cats per block, when there is one cat per 10

>> >miles in the wild...

>> >we brought this problem onto the world, we have to take responsibility

>> >fer it

>> >don't get me wrong, i luv my cat to death, and i luv dogs, weasels,

>> >ferrets, toads, ardvaarks, wot have you..but, if we are going to bring

>> >animal companions along, we have as much responsibility to make sure

>> >they don't go runnin amuk as we do trying to keep kids from shootin

>> >smack, wouldn't you say?

>> >fraggle

>> >

>> > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote:

>> >

>> >>

>> >>I'm very surprised at your attitude and I know a lot of vegans who love

>> >cats

>> >>and value their companionship and would be quite offended by what you

>> >are

>> >>saying. What do you want to happen to the cats? Have them all

>> >exterminated?

>> >>I don't like the fact that they are carnivores but if I personally had

>> >a cat

>> >>now I would use Vegecat and feed it on vegan food (I know not all vegan

>> >cat

>> >>owners do this though).

>> >>Killing small birds and mammals is natural for cats, you can't judge

>> >them

>> >>the way you can human beings who should know better.

>> >>

>> >>My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats

>> >mostly

>> >>bury their poos, it's dogs that just leave it and the owners who don't

>> >clear

>> >>it up are the ones to blame. Responsible pet owners should not be made

>> >to

>> >>suffer for the behaviour of the irresponsible few.

>> >>

>> >>Lesley

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Peter [snowbow]

>> >> 10 July 2002 17:12

>> >>

>> >> Re: Digest Number 395

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Hi Lesley

>> >>

>> >> > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible

>> >pet

>> >>owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

>> >> > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be

>> >put to

>> >>sleep.

>> >>

>> >> Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here.

>> >In

>> >>our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in

>> >our

>> >>garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever

>> >wish to

>> >>do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous

>> >birds

>> >>and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our

>> >cars

>> >>and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

>> >>

>> >> I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would

>> >make

>> >>our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild

>> >birds. It

>> >>might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having

>> >to

>> >>clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living in our

>> >>street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from

>> >all the

>> >>excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that

>> >children

>> >>should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be

>> >>exposed to cat sh*t.

>> >>

>> >> People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them,

>> >cats are

>> >>nothing but a pain in the back side.

>> >>

>> >> It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who

>> >you

>> >>effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

>> >>

>> >> BB

>> >> Peter

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ---

>> >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>> >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK

>> > " http://www.grisoft.com). " http://www.grisoft.com).

>> >> Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>> >>

>> >> To send an email to

>> >-

>> >>

>> >>

[Guest guest]

so i take it it would be a little bit of both??

fair enough..reactions are reactions...

 

 

 

" jojo " <tofujojo wrote:

 

>LOL!  Yes, I probably would

>

>-- jojo

>-

><EBbrewpunx

>

>Friday, July 12, 2002 7:27 AM

>Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>> you'd be surprised

>> or maybe the word is horrified...

>> whichever

>> cheers

>> fraggle

>> >

>> >Well, there's only femme stuff on there now and no offense or anything,

>but

>> >I don't know how good boi fraggles look in pink...

>> >

>> >-- jojo (currently website-less...)

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >To send an email to -

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Angie

 

> Where is all this cleaning up ? Cats bury it don't they.

 

Apparently this is the official version of events. I wish someone would tell this to the cats in our area.

 

> What diseases does one get from cat waste ,?

 

I forget the name (I think someone else did post it) - it causes blindness along with other things.

 

BB

Peter

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

[Guest guest]

Angie

 

> Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't

> been listening to you.

 

Responsible cat ownership is making sure that your cats are not a nuisance to others. By the fact that you state you take no responsibility for what your cats do seems a pretty clear indication that you have very little concern for the trouble they cause to others.

 

> I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a

> cat hater is it ???

 

Not at all. What I hate is people who refuse to take responsibility for the probelms they cause. The cats are ignorant of the problems they cause - it would appear that many cat owners are simply ignorant.

 

BB

Peter

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

[Guest guest]

my gawd

well..i have to say, my vegan groups have exploded all of a sudden

not like i have to work guys..sheesh

hahahahahaha

i have to admit..this is much more interesting then actually tellin folks to

pack boxes and move books...

fraggle

 

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

 

>MessageAngie

>

>> Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because

obviously we are all in the wrong . and  we haven't

>> been listening to you.

>

>Responsible cat ownership is making sure that your cats are not a nuisance to

others. By the fact that you state you take no responsibility for what your cats

do seems a pretty clear indication that you have very little concern for the

trouble they cause to others.

>

>> I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right

and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a

>> cat hater is it ???

>

>Not at all. What I hate is people who refuse to take responsibility for the

probelms they cause. The cats are ignorant of the problems they cause - it would

appear that many cat owners are simply ignorant.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

>---

>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>

[Guest guest]

i posted a list of em yesterday already....

 

 

 

 

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

 

>MessageHi Angie

>

>> Where is all this cleaning up ? Cats bury it don't they.

>

>Apparently this is the official version of events. I wish someone would tell

this to the cats in our area.

>

>> What diseases does one get from cat waste ,?

>

>I forget the name (I think someone else did post it) - it causes blindness

along with other things.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

>---

>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>

[Guest guest]

Very true Fraggle

 

I am quite well known for my 'withering look', which can frighten children

into good behaviour, but it has no effect whatsoever on cats :-)

 

Jo

 

 

 

> i think most cats would look at you with that annoyed look they get, and

chalk the experience up to uptight upright naked apes...

> and go about their business later

 

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

[Guest guest]

Angie

 

My point would be that if you keep an animal that is a nuisance then you

should either keep it indoors so that it is not a nuisance to others, or not

keep that animal at all. It is you that made the decision to keep a

nuisance animal.

 

Jo

 

 

> Yes I quite agree that cats should be kept indoors . I would extend that

> to all animals .

> I try to keep my son in as well ,. he can't come to harm in the house

> and he has 3/4 rooms to move around in . He can't mix with other kids

> but they carry diseases anyway . Some might say I'm keeping him a

> prisoner but I know best because .... I just do . I know what is best

> for him and my animals and I won't have anyone saying differently . You

> can all come and live with me too , and I'll keep you in safe from the

> world, and never let you out .....so you'll be safe

> ...Mother knows best

>

> Psycho

>

>

> Trusty, Hannah [hannah.trusty]

> 10 July 2002 18:02

> Peter ;

> RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

> H

>

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[Guest guest]

LOL! Yes, I probably would

 

-- jojo

-

<EBbrewpunx

 

Friday, July 12, 2002 7:27 AM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

> you'd be surprised

> or maybe the word is horrified...

> whichever

> cheers

> fraggle

> >

> >Well, there's only femme stuff on there now and no offense or anything,

but

> >I don't know how good boi fraggles look in pink...

> >

> >-- jojo (currently website-less...)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> we have a huge problem with cats not only killin birds, but bats..thats

right, bats..

> and, cats can certainly kill a whole lot of voles, shrews, mice, bunnies,

and wot have you at nite..

 

This is so true Fraggle. Cats even take on foxes (the foxes usually try to

avoid cats).

 

> no, i'm not sayin yer bad er someone should take yer kitties away

> but, a cat can get killed just as easily at nite as during the day,

 

Also very true. Some time ago there was a knock on the door early in the

morning - one of my irresponsible neighbours (whose cat pooed daily in my

garden and killed many birds) asking if I could scrape her cat off the road

because it had been run over in the night. This person could not even bring

her own poor animal home.

 

Jo

 

 

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Hi Angie

 

>We can't always have what we want . I have humans making noises swearing /being drunk and fighting and I wish I didn't have >to clean up their litter that is thrown over into my garden .

 

We've had our fair share of them as well, but it doesn't mean that nothing else is as bad. In fact cats are a little like that anyway, because they don't choose to poop in their own gardens - they always go somewhere else, unless their owner trains them and provides a litter tray, or a frequently dug section in their own garden. As you are annoyed at having to clear up after what your neighbours do in your garden, you must realise that it is equally annoying to have to clear up after a neighbours animals.

 

>And these objects are surposed to be intelligent creatures !!!. Give me cats any day . Where is all this cleaning up ? Cats bury >it don't they . The humans don'y bury their litter . And broken bottles are dangerous too.

 

The cats that have used our garden usually scratch around for a little (usually digging up a few seedlings which have recently been planted), do their poop, and then scratch around a bit more. It is all very much a hit and miss affair. Sometimes they manage to cover it a little, but not often.

 

>What diseases does one get from cat waste ,? This is a new one on me .

 

There was an email yesterday(?) with the names of the diseases - toxi....

 

>All the diseases I have ever got were from people ..

 

Maybe that's because your cats poop in other peoples gardens, so the worms/germs are in their garden not yours!

 

>Dangerous things these people .. Ban them I say .

 

There would be no reason to even think of banning cats if their owners showed some responsibility.

 

I've never got a pain in the backside from cats What are you doing with them ?????

 

Suffering.

 

 

Jo

 

 

 

Now people ........?

 

 

Peter [snowbow] 10 July 2002 17:12 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

Hi Lesley

 

> Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

> landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep.

 

Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

 

I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t.

 

People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side.

 

It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

 

BB

Peter

 

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Hi Angie

 

>My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ).

 

I expect the owners of the cats who kill all the birds in my garden don't know that they are killing birds (what's left of the poor little things is left on my lawn, with feathers strewn all around) - just because the owners don't know, it doesn't mean that their cats are not killing birds.

 

 

>And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they >are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less >traffic and no birds so night seems best to me ,

 

Don't they poop at night then?

 

>But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to >dictate to them what they should do . Not many people >dictate to me ....except my employers ! .

 

You are dependent on your employers for a living, which is why they may be able to dictate to you. Your cat is dependent on you for a living, which is why you may be able to dictate to it, and maybe take some responsibility for it.

 

 

>Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the >streets clean ? No !

>Cats are not considered by law to be the property of >humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined >if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat

 

Does this excuse the fact that you are being a nuisance by owning an animal that you are not taking responsibility for?

 

>Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat >ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . >and we haven't been listening to you.

 

Responsible behaviour - Werner, and about three other cat owners on this list have said that they keep their cats in doors, and supply them with all the love and home comforts (and a litter tray) that the cats could want. Haven't you read their emails.

 

>I shall go and punish myself very severely because you >are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......

 

I think you are being a little silly Angie. This is a discussion - should Peter just shut up because you say so? or have the points he has made hit a sore spot?

 

>Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ???

 

Peter is not any sort of animal hater, and I fail to see how the points made in his part of this discussion have made you come to this conclusion. He has probably never mentioned the strange effect he has on animals. It is amazing - they love him. If there is a dog or cat within a hundred yards, they perk up and do all they can to get near him. Even butterflies land on him. I don't think that would happen if they felt any hate emanating from him

 

>I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll >share them with you sometime

 

I think you already did once. It's a shame you feel hate for anything - it cannot be a comfortable feeling, and somewhat precludes allowing love to enter your life.

 

BBJo

 

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[Guest guest]

Jo,

 

Nuisance animals?????! Look at all the bloody nuisance humans in the

world!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg!

 

I became a vegan because I don't feel that I have a right to eat someone

else's body. I don't feel that humans are better than *animals*. We are

all animals and its wrong to think that humans are *better*.

 

So, how can you differentiate between humans and cats? What makes you think

that you are better than cats so they shouldn't encroach into your life and

become a nuisance to *you*. Maybe you are a nuisance to *them*! This world

wasn't given to humans.

 

I don't like all this hierarchy stuff. We were all put on the earth and we

are equals. We should love our fellow animals as indeed we are animals

ourselves.

 

I give my cats the love and respect they deserve. If they want to go out -

I let them out. If they want to sleep on my bed - they can do that. I

don't deprive them of such luxuries that I enjoy myself.

 

Please don't look down on animals and think of them as *nuisances*. They

weren't put on this earth to be cooped up all the time. FREEDOM. What a

beautiful word!

 

And remember, please don't end up being a nuisance to cats. They are very

particular animals. LOL!

 

Janey

x

 

> My point would be that if you keep an animal that is a nuisance then you

> should either keep it indoors so that it is not a nuisance to others, or

not

> keep that animal at all. It is you that made the decision to keep a

> nuisance animal.

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

deep breathe janey

count to ten..take ten breathes..

really..it works..

 

you are reading this wrong

you also just said that cats weren't humans, and now you are sayin there are no

differences

i don't see anyone sayin we are better er anything

but..fine..if that how you feel, fine..my neighbors pitbulls will be hangin out

in yer neighborhood soon...wandering free

cats are beautiful creatures..but, face it, they are not " natural "

we have bred them, brought them to share our lives

now wot about all the other lives the lil buggers impact? they don't count, do

" our " cats have more rights then songbirds? bats? shrews? you want them to be

happy, but, at wot cost??

doesn't seem fair to me.

fraggle

 

 

" Janey " <janey wrote:

 

>Jo,

>

>Nuisance animals?????!  Look at all the bloody nuisance humans in the

>world!!!!!!!!!!!!!  omg!

>

>I became a vegan because I don't feel that I have a right to eat someone

>else's body.  I don't feel that humans are better than *animals*.  We are

>all animals and its wrong to think that humans are *better*.

>

>So, how can you differentiate between humans and cats?  What makes you think

>that you are better than cats so they shouldn't encroach into your life and

>become a nuisance to *you*.  Maybe you are a nuisance to *them*!  This world

>wasn't given to humans.

>

>I don't like all this hierarchy stuff.  We were all put on the earth and we

>are equals.  We should love our fellow animals as indeed we are animals

>ourselves.

>

>I give my cats the love and respect they deserve.  If they want to go out -

>I let them out.  If they want to sleep on my bed - they can do that.  I

>don't deprive them of such luxuries that I enjoy myself.

>

>Please don't look down on animals and think of them as *nuisances*.  They

>weren't put on this earth to be cooped up all the time.  FREEDOM.  What a

>beautiful word!

>

>And remember, please don't end up being a nuisance to cats.  They are very

>particular animals.  LOL!

>

>Janey

>x

>

>> My point would be that if you keep an animal that is a nuisance then you

>> should either keep it indoors so that it is not a nuisance to others, or

>not

>> keep that animal at all.  It is you that made the decision to keep a

>> nuisance animal.

>>

>> Jo

>

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder when I will get them

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 00:20 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395Toxoplasmosis giardia cryptosporidium (diarrhea in people), cat scratch disease (cat scratch fever)ringworm >What diseases does one get from cat waste ,? This is a new one on me .

 

 

---

 

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[Guest guest]

I'd keep you safe from the dangerous world and its diseases !!!!

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 00:24 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395oh dear bacchuswhile traveling in england, must remember to never check into the wright hotel...."Angie Wright" <angiewright wrote:>Yes I quite agree that cats should be kept indoors . I would extend that>to all animals . >I try to keep my son in as well ,. he can't come to harm in the house>and he has 3/4 rooms to move around in . He can't mix with other kids>but they carry diseases anyway . Some might say I'm keeping him a>prisoner but I know best because .... I just do . I know what is best>for him and my animals and I won't have anyone saying differently . You>can all come and live with me too , and I'll keep you in safe from the>world, and never let you out .....so you'll be safe> ...Mother knows best >>Psycho>>>Trusty, Hannah [hannah.trusty] >10 July 2002 18:02>Peter ; >RE: Digest Number 395>>>H>>--->>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).>Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002> >>>>To send an email to - >>

[Guest guest]

Well spotted

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 00:33 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395angie is getting testy!!!:)ummTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Yes I'm frightened to go out in case the hoards of cats attack me and give me a deadly disease

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 00:36 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395cats and dogs run amok..i've seen em..they gather in little gangs..smoke dope, harrass old ladies...its all a nuisance i tells ya....someone should alert the authorities..i recommend random drug testing fer all felines..them and there cat nip...cheersfraggle"Angie Wright" <angiewright wrote:>Did Lesley advocate them running amok ???? I must have missed that .> I must go and exterminate all the cats in the shelter down the road>before some humans decide to adopt them and over populate the place > >Angie>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

and end up in some chili er something no doubt!

all kinds of critters go in angie wrights fritters!!!!

 

 

 

 

" Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

 

>I'd keep you safe from the dangerous world and its diseases !!!!

>

>Angie

>

>

>EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

>12 July 2002 00:24

>

>RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

>oh dear bacchus

>while traveling in england, must remember to never check into the wright

>hotel....

>

>

> " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

>

>>Yes I quite agree that cats should be kept indoors . I would extend

>that

>>to all animals  .

>>I try to keep my son in as well  ,. he can't come to harm in the house

>>and he has 3/4 rooms to move around in . He can't mix with other kids

>>but they carry diseases anyway . Some might say I'm keeping him a

>>prisoner but I know best because .... I just do . I know what is best

>>for him and my animals and I won't have anyone saying differently . You

>>can all come and live with me too , and I'll keep you in safe from the

>>world, and never let you out .....so you'll be safe

>> ...Mother knows best

>>

>>Psycho

>>

>>

>>Trusty, Hannah [hannah.trusty]

>>10 July 2002 18:02

>>Peter ;

>>RE: Digest Number 395

>>

>>

>>H

>>

>>---

>>

>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK

> " http://www.grisoft.com). " http://www.grisoft.com).

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>>

>>

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>>

>>