URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

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ya can only do what ya can............

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:47 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

I wasnt saying anyone was forcing anyone, what I was saying was I wouldnt condone it if they did. My kids and wife make their own minds up, luckily my kids are vegie, unfortunately my wife a carnie. Their choice, all I can offer is guidance, and education where asked for .

 

The Valley Vegan.............flower child <zurumato wrote:

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:>> Hi Sharon,> I wouldnt condone forcing your lifestyle choices on your childrenby stopping them having dairy, it has to be their choice, as they areold enough to make rational choices.You wouldn't believe how often people say that to me. FORCING. all of the time they say that I force my veganism on my children. why do they love using that word? to make me feel like crap? sorry, didn't work, they lose again. If they spend some time with me and my kids they would see that I amnot capable of forcing anything. but I'd like to know why these same people don't look in the mirrorand point at themselves instead at pointing at me. These are the same people that tell their children about the Easterbunny, Santa claus and bring them to THEIR church. Only vegans forcetheir beliefs on their children? When I was one years old, my family FORCED peirced ears on me. when I was a little girl, They FORCED me to believe that If I didn'tbelieve in THEIR jesus, i would burn in hell. This created nightmares to this day and I would consider it childabuse. I was FORCED baptized into something that I really didn'tunderstand. No one ever asked me!Do Muslim parents FORCE their children to believe that eating pigs iswrong? nobody criticizes that. Do Hindu parents FORCE their children to believe that eating cows aresacred? nobody criticizes that. Do Vegan parents FORCE their children to believe that eating animalsis wrong? Everybody criticizes that. I teach my children by showing gentle compassion, by example not bypreaching about veganism. Why is specisim the norm? Why aren't parents who feed their kidsloads of JUNK food not judged as forcing something detrimental to their children? I belong to a vegan parents group in my town. Not a single one isforceful. These are gentle people who's only crime is that they choseto not to bring animal products into their homes. Their value system is that veganism is better for their children'shealth and that modeling compasion is an important part of shaping thehuman being that will run the world in the future. It is no differten than someone chosing not to bring a gun into theirhouse. -anouk

Peter H

 

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But if you are already in a relationship when you become a vegan, I can't say I'd think it appropriate to dump the other person because they are still eating meat. You just might love them, and you may have made a commitment and that commitment should be honored. If you continue to live with them, and exhibit your compassion in your life as well as your diet, perhaps one day they will see the light also.

 

Sharon

fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:25:56 AMRe: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

everyone is different

and everyone draws their lines in different places...

 

personally.. .and again, i said personally.. i couldn't be with a carnie

i look at it this way..what if my partner had a slave?

well..i'm an abolutionist. ..but my partner owns slaves..but i can't force him/her to do what i do...

but, since i came along..she only whips them when they are really bad....

*shrug*

evetyone see's things differently. ..

and, never said it all was suppose to make sense, er be easy

cheers

fraggle

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:43 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference.

 

The Valley Vegan....... ......flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

History repeats itself

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depends on how ya looks at it........

jo Nov 15, 2006 2:35 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

Hi Peter

 

I do agree. We were lucky in our family as we decided all at the same time to go veggie. If it had just been me I wouldn't suddenly say to everyone else in the family that they couldn't eat what they wanted - that would be a dictatorship - with which, I hope we all disagree.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:43 AM

Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference.

 

The Valley Vegan.............flower child <zurumato wrote:

 

 

personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamountto allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer hausthats me of courseeveryone is differentHi fraggle, I agree, my house is a cruelty-free zone. My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if theydon't get their way. I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earntheir own money. That is beyond my control and their choice. but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries.

Peter H

 

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what, a dictatorship? The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: depends on how ya looks at it........ jo Nov 15, 2006 2:35 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi Peter I do agree. We were lucky in our family as we decided all at the same time to go veggie. If it had just been me I wouldn't suddenly say to everyone else in the family that they couldn't eat what they wanted - that would be a dictatorship - with which, I hope we all disagree. Jo - peter VV Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:43 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference. The Valley Vegan.............flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>

wrote: personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamountto allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer hausthats me of courseeveryone is differentHi fraggle, I agree, my house is a cruelty-free zone. My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if theydon't get their way. I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earntheir own money. That is beyond my control and their choice. but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries. Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

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hypothetical headache coming on! The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: everyone is different and everyone draws their lines in different places... personally...and again, i said personally..i couldn't be with a carnie i look at it this way..what if my partner had a slave? well..i'm an abolutionist...but my partner owns slaves..but i can't force him/her to do what i

do... but, since i came along..she only whips them when they are really bad.... *shrug* evetyone see's things differently... and, never said it all was suppose to make sense, er be easy cheers fraggle peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:43 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met

me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference. The Valley Vegan.............flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

 

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would that be the intellectually challenged one that you mentioned previously? whats she done now?, hasnt shot puppies or started slave trading has she? The Valley Vegan................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: wanna move in?hahahahyou should hear the "issues" we are having with our roomie>flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>>Nov 14, 2006 8:39

PM> > Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday>>personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamount>to allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer haus>thats me of course>everyone is different>>>Hi fraggle, >>I agree, my house is a cruelty-free zone. >My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if they>don't get their way. >>I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earn>their own money. That is beyond my control and their choice. >but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries. >>>>>>>To send an email to - >

[Guest guest]

and i said everyone was different, and looked at it differently/is going to have

different feelings

everyone draws lines somewhere...

 

if i was 20 and living with my parents i'd prolly would have gone mad

just cuz i was 20 and still at home

but..seriously...my parents bought what they wanted....

if i wanted something else, then, that was up to me....

 

 

 

 

>jo <jo.heartwork

>Nov 15, 2006 2:33 AM

>

>Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot

Monday

>

>Hi Anouk / Fraggle

>

>I partly agree with your point of view, but I think this person has turned

>vegan recently. It is her choice and probably you cannot expect the rest of

>her grown up family to agree. To reverse the situation, if you were 20 and

>living at home and your parents, who had been vegan, decided to buy and eat

>meat, you might not like it either.

>

>Jo

>

>-

> " flower child " <zurumato

>

>Wednesday, November 15, 2006 4:39 AM

> Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

>

>

>> personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamount

>> to allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer haus

>> thats me of course

>> everyone is different

>>

>>

>> Hi fraggle,

>>

>> I agree, my house is a cruelty-free zone.

>> My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if they

>> don't get their way.

>>

>> I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earn

>> their own money. That is beyond my control and their choice.

>> but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> To send an email to -

>>

[Guest guest]

Wouldnt be setting a good example of caring vegan ethics would it? The Valley Vegan................Sharon Murch <compassion2grace wrote: But if you are already in a relationship when you become a vegan, I can't say I'd think it appropriate to dump the other person because they are still eating

meat. You just might love them, and you may have made a commitment and that commitment should be honored. If you continue to live with them, and exhibit your compassion in your life as well as your diet, perhaps one day they will see the light also. Sharon fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) com> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:25:56 AMRe: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday everyone is different and everyone draws their lines in different

places... personally.. .and again, i said personally.. i couldn't be with a carnie i look at it this way..what if my partner had a slave? well..i'm an abolutionist. ..but my partner owns slaves..but i can't force him/her to do what i do... but, since i came along..she only whips them when they are really bad.... *shrug* evetyone see's things differently. .. and, never said it all was suppose to make sense, er be easy cheers fraggle peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:43 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on

me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference. The Valley Vegan....... ......flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

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i think we wnet over this before

and, here's where i prolly get everyone pissed at me

 

ok..

so, when you have children, you are suppose to care for them, correct?

would you let a three yr old wander around in the street?

i would guess not..

as a parent(and in society), children are given boundaries, no?

some are more restrictive then others

so there's all ways of looking at it

but..if you just toss yer kid a KFC bucket once a week, and say "go at it", if you let yer toddler wander the streets, if you don't care if yer kid goes to skool, then you are labeled a bad parent

yes?

then, if you've made a choice to be vegan, why woudl it be ok to buy milk fer yer kids or dead flesh, or whichever?

don't you have a duty to raise the wee ones not only to be healthy, but to make good choices in life?

if they want to go buy cow pus at age 16, well, nuthin you can do about it besides give them information and try and help them along

but..if yer 6 yr old wants cow milk, tough...

what if they wanted to drink drano?

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 6:39 AM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

I think it depends on their age, if they arent old enough to get jobs yet to be self sufficient, then support them. When they are old enough to work and if they still live with parents, it will be up to them to buy whatever they like.Hopefully, they will look after themselves and support their own lifestyle choices without asking parents to support them by sponsoring their lactiverous activities. I think it would be selfish and uncaring on their part to be any other way?

 

The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

 

 

Hi Peter

 

>I wouldnt condone forcing your lifestyle choices on your children by stopping them having dairy

 

But you would condone them forcing their lifestyle choices on their parents by making them buy milk? As you said, they're old enough to make their own decisions...

 

BB

Peter

 

Peter H

 

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I think it depends on the sex, and whether they are destined for beef/further incubation machines. The Valley Vegan...............Sharon Murch <compassion2grace wrote: Thanks, Jo. My main thought was that perhaps the milk I drive fifteen miles to buy at Whole Foods Market might be kinder than the store

brand at Safeway or Albertson's. I know it's not going to be beneficial to any animals, but is there any possibility it might be less harmful? Do all dairies always turn their baby boy cows into veal? Sharon jo <jo.heartwork > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 10:35:36 AMRe: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi Sharon I think you are doing well to have so

many vegetarians in your family, and to go vegan yourself. Personally, I would buy the milk for my family if they wanted it. I'm not saying that is right - just what I would do. Have they tried soya or rice milk though. That is what we have. I do buy milk for my daughter when she visits. Jo - Sharon Murch @gro ups.com Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:56 PM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Thanks, Geraldine and Jo. Let me introduce myself. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I have kids who are young adults, which makes me an older adult. I work at a pretty large high school and love teenagers. I was a vegetarian years back, then stopped, and went back to it when some of the teens directed me to "meet your meat" on the PETA website. There is a pretty large group of committed vegetarians among the kids, including my 13-year old, but they all seemed to be in agreement that being a vegan

was just too hard ... you know, when they go to all those fast food restaurants there are options available for vegetarians, but when you go vegan it is a bit harder ... not to mention their beloved pizza. And I also thought veganism would be too difficult. But a month or so ago I came to the sudden realization that all those extra dairy products we vegetarians were consuming were in effect sentencing even more animals to lives of nothing but misery and suffering. So I took the plunge, and you know I discovered it isn't really hard at all! Of course, I don't hang out at fast food joints, and I do buy my own groceries. Most of the kids have parents who are meat-eaters. But I've been passing the message on to the kids, and giving them suggestions about good and

easy vegan food. You know, that grilled non-cheese sandwich surpasses any grilled cheese sandwich I've ever had. I also have a "myspace" so I try to pass some information along to the kids there. My own vegetarian daughter has resisted veganism, but lately she has decided she must be lactose intolerant because every time she eats dairy products they give her a tummy ache. Now let me ask you a question regarding dairy products. I have a 15-year old, 18-year old and 21-year old who will not give up milk. So I have the option of saying I won't buy it, and they go to the local store and buy the local store brand of milk. Or when I drive fifteen miles to the nearest Whole Foods Market, I can buy Clover Stornetta milk, which makes it sound as though their cows

are lounging around in grassy green pastures. I'm smart enough to know that I can't necessarily believe everything I am told, but is there a more compassionate brand of milk for my family, and for an ethics question ... would you tell your kids you aren't going to buy them milk and let them get what they will (they are old enough to drive and buy), or would you buy a different brand yourself??? And finally, regarding AETA ... I really just can't believe such a thing can happen in this country. I recall reading one of the congressmen remarked that it might violate some civil rights, and another congressman commented that the ACLU hadn't said anything about it so it must be okay. I suspect that the ACLU thinks only some people have civil rights, and I guess animal lovers

aren't in that group. But exactly how far can our rights be taken away. Did the SHAC 7 really go to prison solely for running a website? And in the recent searches of animal activists' homes in Los Angeles recently, what were they looking for? Anyway, pleased to meet you all. Sharon Geraldine McCarthy <geraldine.mccarthy@ tesco.net>@gro ups.comMonday, November 13, 2006 3:21:29

AMRe: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi Sharon, Welcome to Vegan Chat Geraldine (UK) - compassion2grace @gro ups.com Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:03 PM URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi there. I am new here and I hope to post an introduction soon, but in the meantime I wanted to pass this along to you. This bill, which is aimed solely at those who protest animal abuse, labeling them terrorists and giving jail time even if they are only using their right to free speech and not harming anybody's property or causing economic damage. It is up for a vote without discussion at the House of Representatives on Monday's calendar, so call or write your representative now! Instructions for finding out who

your representative is are in this post. Thanks. Sharon Please forward immediately & widely -- (online version) BREAKING NEWS Action Alert -- House Vote on AETA this Monday! This is your ONLY chance to defeat the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (HR 4239, S3880)! In a late night move on Friday, AETA was added to the House Suspension Calendar for THIS Monday! This underhanded fast-track maneuver, like the one in the Senate, means that AETA will not have any debate... only an up/down vote. Contact your Representative this weekend and Monday morning! Identify your House Rep: name, fax, e-mail, and phone number at http://www.house. govThen, use our sample letter and/or the talking points below to... Be a triple hitter for the animals: 1. Call direct or use the switchboard 202-225-3121 2. Fax 3. E-mail Remember, all contact info is at www.house.gov. Talking Points! "As your constituent, I strongly urge you to: (1) vote NO on the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (HR4239, S 3880), which is currently on the suspension calendar for 11/13 to be voted on Monday after 6:30pm, and (2) to contact Rep. Sensenbrenner to remove the bill from the suspension calendar. The measure is much too important to pass

without discussion." The bill must be opposed for the following reasons: AETA is opposed by more than 130 animal protection, social justice, and civil liberty organizations including: National Lawyers Guild, Humane Society of the U.S., ASPCA, Natural Resources Defense Council, and the League of Humane Voters. Click here for opposition list. AETA deserves a hearing to afford its many opponents a voice. AETA denies equal protection under the law and limits freedom of speech and assembly. AETA unfairly brands as `terrorists' nonviolent animal protection advocates. AETA unfairly brands as `terrorism' nonviolent civil disobedience and undercover investigations. AETA invokes excessively harsh penalties for comparable offenses. AETA is excessively broad and vague by

covering innocent parties. AETA may authorize unwarranted wiretapping of animal protection advocates. AETA has a chilling effect on all forms of social justice and life affirming advocacy.AETA interferes with prosecution of real terrorism against the American people. Join Us for the Anti-AETA Lobby Day on Monday! Please join us in Washington, DC for an

emergency Anti-AETA Lobby Day on Monday, November 13, starting at 10 am. Please dress conservatively. The details will be announced on NoAETA.org by Monday morning. You can also call 800-632-8688 or 202-468-4834. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----- This alert is sponsored by the Equal Justice Alliance, a national coalition of social advocacy organizations preserving free speech

and equal treatment under the law by defeating AETA. Details at 800-632-8688. Thank you and please forward widely and immediately! online version To / change profile: click here Our address: 10101 Ashburton LaneBethesda, Maryland 20817 Peter H

 

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I would like to think we are all family on here. I only eve use soya milk for cereal, nothing else. I tried rice milk but didnt like it. I havent tried any nut milks or oat milks yet, dont see the need I am happy with soy. Nice story about your boy. The Valley Vegan..............Sharon Murch <compassion2grace wrote: We've had soymilk in the house forever. Some like it, not not. When my son was a preschooler, he preferred to drink soymilk, and one day he told me it was because it was brown instead of white, and he thought it would make him turn brown like his best friend. They like the milk on cereal. Maybe I should stop buying cereal! ;-) Nice to hear from all you in the UK. I was born in England and spent my early years there. My mother is from there, and the only family I have besides my children is there. Sharon peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 10:41:17 AMRe: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi Sharon, I wouldnt condone forcing your lifestyle choices on your children by stopping them having dairy, it has to be their choice, as they are old enough to make rational choices. Have you explained about the sad practice of milk production in detail? so they will know that they are contributing to the suffering ( the forced impregnation and the resulting shortening of lifespan, the taking away of the calves

after a few days/week the veal trade..... ) I agree that some of these advertising gimmicks are a bit daft, there is nothing natural about humans drinking another animals milk, no is it easily digested. When I gave up milk years ago my colds became a lot less productive. In the UK we have organic milk, but that doesnt make it any more cow friendly, or mean they are free range cows producing it, they still suffer to produce this unatural human food. Maybe you could get them to try soya /oat/rice milks to see if they could switch?. Soya milks have improved loads over the last 10 years. Maybe ask them to respect your wishes/beliefs and abstain from non vegan products while you are around? Whatever you do, good luck with it. The Valley Vegan....... .........Sharon Murch <compassion2grace@ > wrote: Thanks, Geraldine and Jo. Let me introduce myself. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I have kids who are young adults, which makes me an older adult. I work at a pretty large high school and love teenagers. I was a vegetarian years back, then stopped, and went back to it when some of the teens directed me to "meet your meat" on the PETA website. There is a pretty large group of committed vegetarians among the kids, including my 13-year old, but they all seemed to be in agreement that being a vegan was just too hard ... you know, when they go to all those fast food restaurants there are options available for vegetarians, but when you go vegan it is a bit harder ... not to mention their beloved pizza. And I also

thought veganism would be too difficult. But a month or so ago I came to the sudden realization that all those extra dairy products we vegetarians were consuming were in effect sentencing even more animals to lives of nothing but misery and suffering. So I took the plunge, and you know I discovered it isn't really hard at all! Of course, I don't hang out at fast food joints, and I do buy my own groceries. Most of the kids have parents who are meat-eaters. But I've been passing the message on to the kids, and giving them suggestions about good and easy vegan food. You know, that grilled non-cheese sandwich surpasses any grilled cheese sandwich I've ever had. I also have a "myspace" so I try to pass some information along to the kids there. My own

vegetarian daughter has resisted veganism, but lately she has decided she must be lactose intolerant because every time she eats dairy products they give her a tummy ache. Now let me ask you a question regarding dairy products. I have a 15-year old, 18-year old and 21-year old who will not give up milk. So I have the option of saying I won't buy it, and they go to the local store and buy the local store brand of milk. Or when I drive fifteen miles to the nearest Whole Foods Market, I can buy Clover Stornetta milk, which makes it sound as though their cows are lounging around in grassy green pastures. I'm smart enough to know that I can't necessarily believe everything I am told, but is there a more compassionate brand of milk for my family, and for an ethics

question ... would you tell your kids you aren't going to buy them milk and let them get what they will (they are old enough to drive and buy), or would you buy a different brand yourself??? And finally, regarding AETA ... I really just can't believe such a thing can happen in this country. I recall reading one of the congressmen remarked that it might violate some civil rights, and another congressman commented that the ACLU hadn't said anything about it so it must be okay. I suspect that the ACLU thinks only some people have civil rights, and I guess animal lovers aren't in that group. But exactly how far can our rights be taken away. Did the SHAC 7 really go to prison solely for running a website? And in the recent searches of animal activists' homes in Los

Angeles recently, what were they looking for? Anyway, pleased to meet you all. Sharon Geraldine McCarthy <geraldine.mccarthy@ tesco.net>@gro ups.comMonday, November 13, 2006 3:21:29 AMRe: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi Sharon, Welcome to Vegan Chat Geraldine (UK) - compassion2grace @gro ups.com Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:03 PM URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi there. I am new here and I hope to post an introduction soon, but in the meantime I wanted to pass this along to you. This bill, which is aimed solely at those who protest animal abuse, labeling them terrorists and giving jail time even if they are only using their right to free speech and not harming anybody's property or causing economic damage. It is up for a vote without discussion at the House of Representatives on Monday's calendar, so call or write your representative now! Instructions for finding out who your representative is are in this post. Thanks. Sharon Please forward immediately & widely -- (online version) BREAKING NEWS Action Alert -- House Vote on AETA this Monday! This is your ONLY chance to defeat the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (HR 4239, S3880)! In a late night move on Friday,

AETA was added to the House Suspension Calendar for THIS Monday! This underhanded fast-track maneuver, like the one in the Senate, means that AETA will not have any debate... only an up/down vote. Contact your Representative this weekend and Monday morning! Identify your House Rep: name, fax, e-mail, and phone number at http://www.house. govThen, use our sample letter and/or the talking points below to... Be a triple hitter for the animals: 1. Call direct or use the switchboard

202-225-3121 2. Fax 3. E-mail Remember, all contact info is at www.house.gov.

Talking Points! "As your constituent, I strongly urge you to: (1) vote NO on the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (HR4239, S 3880), which is currently on the suspension calendar for 11/13 to be voted on Monday after 6:30pm, and (2) to contact Rep. Sensenbrenner to remove the bill from the suspension calendar. The measure is much too important to pass without discussion." The bill must be opposed for the following reasons: AETA is opposed by more than 130 animal protection, social justice, and civil liberty organizations including: National Lawyers Guild, Humane Society of the U.S., ASPCA, Natural Resources Defense Council, and the League of Humane Voters. Click here for opposition list. AETA deserves a hearing to afford its many opponents a voice. AETA denies equal protection under the law and

limits freedom of speech and assembly. AETA unfairly brands as `terrorists' nonviolent animal protection advocates. AETA unfairly brands as `terrorism' nonviolent civil disobedience and undercover investigations. AETA invokes excessively harsh penalties for comparable offenses. AETA is excessively broad and vague by covering innocent parties. AETA

may authorize unwarranted wiretapping of animal protection advocates. AETA has a chilling effect on all forms of social justice and life affirming advocacy.AETA interferes with prosecution of real terrorism against the American people. Join Us for the Anti-AETA Lobby Day on Monday! Please join us in Washington, DC for an emergency Anti-AETA Lobby Day on Monday, November 13, starting at 10 am. Please dress conservatively. The details will be announced on NoAETA.org by Monday morning. You can also call 800-632-8688 or 202-468-4834. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----- This alert is sponsored by the Equal Justice Alliance, a national coalition of social advocacy organizations preserving free speech and equal treatment under the law by defeating AETA. Details at 800-632-8688. Thank you and please forward widely and immediately! online version To / change profile: click here Our address: 10101 Ashburton LaneBethesda, Maryland 20817 Peter H All New Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

some people are lazy, some just dont like change, some are dissobedient, some rebel/think they are rebelling, could be zillions of reasons............... The Valley Vegan................Sharon Murch <compassion2grace wrote: Fraggle, I am absolutely astounded at how thoughtless and hard-hearted even my own

children can be. Even my 18-year old son, who is a generally kind and loving person, who sat and watched "Earthlings" with me the other day, went out this morning and had a meat-laden omelet. I do rather believe this one will come along eventually. With me, it's kind of like the light was always there but I had on these dark glasses, and I think he will take his glasses off one day. But even my daughter who has been staunchly vegetarian for over a year resists going vegan. Why? You tell me. I don't get it. Sharon fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) com> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:00:05 AMRe: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday welcome sharon personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamount to allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer haus thats me of course everyone is different i take it they don't like any of the soy, rice, or nut milks out there? why do they drink milk? would they care that since they are drinking cow milk, a calf somewhere is on its way to a spacious crate where it can happily stand for weeks tethered in place? yum veal! don't know yer children, so

really don't know how they would react... if they want to purchase cow pus..their choice..i would give em reasons why not to,..but..their lives (sadly...its the lives of the cows as well..but i digress) but..fer you buying it...nah fraggle Sharon Murch Nov 14, 2006 9:56 AM @gro ups.com Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Now let me ask you a question regarding dairy products. I have a 15-year old, 18-year old and 21-year old who will

not give up milk. So I have the option of saying I won't buy it, and they go to the local store and buy the local store brand of milk. Or when I drive fifteen miles to the nearest Whole Foods Market, I can buy Clover Stornetta milk, which makes it sound as though their cows are lounging around in grassy green pastures. I'm smart enough to know that I can't necessarily believe everything I am told, but is there a more compassionate brand of milk for my family, and for an ethics question ... would you tell your kids you aren't going to buy them milk and let them get what they will (they are old enough to drive and buy), or would you buy a different brand yourself???History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

 

All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

[Guest guest]

if they can "make up their own mind", then thats their choice

can't force change on them

can only guide

but..doesn't mean you have to encourage their meat-eating/cow pus drinking either..

just my thoughts tis all...

cheers

Sharon Murch Nov 15, 2006 6:41 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

My children aren't even teens ... they are young adults. It is not that they are rebelling, it is that I "forced" meat-eating and milk-drinking on them from early childhood. Now I have made a change and they don't want to follow. As young adults, they are in a position to make their own decisions. Hopefully they will decide differently one day.

 

You are right, of course ... whatever our lifestyle is, we "force" it on our children.

 

Sharon

flower child <zurumato Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:39:16 PM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamountto allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer hausthats me of courseeveryone is differentHi fraggle, I agree, my house is a cruelty-free zone. My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if theydon't get their way. I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earntheir own money. That is beyond my control and their choice. but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries.

 

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

[Guest guest]

not a parent are you Fraggle? ( fur babies aside ), you are assuming that both parents are vegan to start. In my case my wife is a (zombie) flesheater, and so we brought our kids up as vegetarian rather than vegan as a compromise. I think compromise is good. If drano was a foodstuff then I suppose ?.............my brain hurts....... The Valley Vegan..................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i think we wnet over this before and, here's

where i prolly get everyone pissed at me ok.. so, when you have children, you are suppose to care for them, correct? would you let a three yr old wander around in the street? i would guess not.. as a parent(and in society), children are given boundaries, no? some are more restrictive then others so there's all ways of looking at it but..if you just toss yer kid a KFC bucket once a week, and say "go at it", if you let yer toddler wander the streets, if you don't care if yer kid goes to skool, then you are labeled a bad parent yes? then, if you've made a choice to be vegan, why woudl it be ok to buy milk fer yer kids or dead flesh, or whichever? don't you have a duty to raise the wee ones not only to be healthy, but to make good choices in life? if they want to go buy cow pus at age 16, well, nuthin you can do

about it besides give them information and try and help them along but..if yer 6 yr old wants cow milk, tough... what if they wanted to drink drano? peter VV Nov 15, 2006 6:39 AM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday I think it depends on their age, if they arent old enough to get jobs yet to be self sufficient, then support them. When they are old enough to work and if they still live with parents, it will be up to them to buy whatever they like.Hopefully, they will look after themselves and support their own lifestyle choices without asking parents to support them by sponsoring their lactiverous activities. I think it would be selfish and uncaring on their part to be any other way? The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab > wrote: Hi Peter >I wouldnt condone forcing your lifestyle choices on your children by stopping them having dairy But you would condone them forcing their lifestyle choices on their parents by making them buy milk? As you said, they're old enough to make their own decisions... BB Peter Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

i do not agree that not purchasing dead flesh fer yer kids equals dictatorship

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 11:25 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

what, a dictatorship?

 

 

The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

depends on how ya looks at it........

jo Nov 15, 2006 2:35 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

Hi Peter

 

I do agree. We were lucky in our family as we decided all at the same time to go veggie. If it had just been me I wouldn't suddenly say to everyone else in the family that they couldn't eat what they wanted - that would be a dictatorship - with which, I hope we all disagree.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:43 AM

Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference.

 

The Valley Vegan.............flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamountto allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer hausthats me of courseeveryone is differentHi fraggle, I agree, my house is a cruelty-free zone. My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if theydon't get their way. I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earntheir own money. That is beyond my control and their choice. but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries.

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher

 

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

[Guest guest]

something wrong with being the proud parent of fur babies?

 

ok...how about it the kids wanted cake ..everyday...every meal...

is that ok?

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:04 PM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

not a parent are you Fraggle? ( fur babies aside ), you are assuming that both parents are vegan to start. In my case my wife is a (zombie) flesheater, and so we brought our kids up as vegetarian rather than vegan as a compromise. I think compromise is good.

If drano was a foodstuff then I suppose ?.............my brain hurts.......

 

The Valley Vegan..................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

i think we wnet over this before

and, here's where i prolly get everyone pissed at me

 

ok..

so, when you have children, you are suppose to care for them, correct?

would you let a three yr old wander around in the street?

i would guess not..

as a parent(and in society), children are given boundaries, no?

some are more restrictive then others

so there's all ways of looking at it

but..if you just toss yer kid a KFC bucket once a week, and say "go at it", if you let yer toddler wander the streets, if you don't care if yer kid goes to skool, then you are labeled a bad parent

yes?

then, if you've made a choice to be vegan, why woudl it be ok to buy milk fer yer kids or dead flesh, or whichever?

don't you have a duty to raise the wee ones not only to be healthy, but to make good choices in life?

if they want to go buy cow pus at age 16, well, nuthin you can do about it besides give them information and try and help them along

but..if yer 6 yr old wants cow milk, tough...

what if they wanted to drink drano?

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 6:39 AM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

I think it depends on their age, if they arent old enough to get jobs yet to be self sufficient, then support them. When they are old enough to work and if they still live with parents, it will be up to them to buy whatever they like.Hopefully, they will look after themselves and support their own lifestyle choices without asking parents to support them by sponsoring their lactiverous activities. I think it would be selfish and uncaring on their part to be any other way?

 

The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab > wrote:

 

 

 

Hi Peter

 

>I wouldnt condone forcing your lifestyle choices on your children by stopping them having dairy

 

But you would condone them forcing their lifestyle choices on their parents by making them buy milk? As you said, they're old enough to make their own decisions...

 

BB

Peter

 

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher

 

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

[Guest guest]

nowt wrong at all I`m one too,just doesnt compare to humans though, they dont answer back for one! cake ? what cake, the same one or a different one?oat cake for breakfast, carrot cake for dinner, etc..........sorry loosing the will to cary on with this one. The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: something wrong with being the proud parent of fur babies? ok...how about it the kids wanted cake

...everyday...every meal... is that ok? peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:04 PM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday not a parent are you Fraggle? ( fur babies aside ), you are assuming that both parents are vegan to start. In my case my wife is a (zombie) flesheater, and so we brought our kids up as vegetarian rather than vegan as a compromise. I think compromise is good. If drano was a foodstuff then I suppose ?.............my brain hurts....... The Valley Vegan..................fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) com> wrote: i think

we wnet over this before and, here's where i prolly get everyone pissed at me ok.. so, when you have children, you are suppose to care for them, correct? would you let a three yr old wander around in the street? i would guess not.. as a parent(and in society), children are given boundaries, no? some are more restrictive then others so there's all ways of looking at it but..if you just toss yer kid a KFC bucket once a week, and say "go at it", if you let yer toddler wander the streets, if you don't care if yer kid goes to skool, then you are labeled a bad parent yes? then, if you've made a choice to be vegan, why woudl it be ok to buy milk fer yer kids or dead flesh, or whichever? don't you have a duty to raise the wee ones not only to be healthy, but to make good choices in life? if they want to go

buy cow pus at age 16, well, nuthin you can do about it besides give them information and try and help them along but..if yer 6 yr old wants cow milk, tough... what if they wanted to drink drano? peter VV Nov 15, 2006 6:39 AM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday I think it depends on their age, if they arent old enough to get jobs yet to be self sufficient, then support them. When they are old enough to work and if they still live with parents, it will be up to them to buy whatever they like.Hopefully, they will look after themselves and support their own lifestyle choices without asking parents to support them by sponsoring their lactiverous activities. I think it would be selfish and uncaring

on their part to be any other way? The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab > wrote: Hi Peter >I wouldnt condone forcing your lifestyle choices on your children by stopping them having dairy But you would condone them forcing their lifestyle choices on their parents by making them buy milk? As you said, they're old enough to make their own decisions... BB Peter Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

would you care for some virtual aspirin?

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 11:28 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

hypothetical headache coming on!

 

The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

[Guest guest]

every one a gem, roll up roll up, opinions valid one and all. radically changing their diet and dictating what they eat is not a dictatorship? The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i do not agree that not purchasing dead flesh fer yer kids equals dictatorship peter VV Nov 15, 2006 11:25 AM To:

Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday what, a dictatorship? The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) com> wrote: depends on how ya looks at it........ jo Nov 15, 2006 2:35 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday Hi

Peter I do agree. We were lucky in our family as we decided all at the same time to go veggie. If it had just been me I wouldn't suddenly say to everyone else in the family that they couldn't eat what they wanted - that would be a dictatorship - with which, I hope we all disagree. Jo - peter VV Wednesday, November

15, 2006 8:43 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference. The Valley Vegan.............flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is

tantamountto allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer hausthats me of courseeveryone is differentHi fraggle, I agree, my house is a cruelty-free zone. My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if theydon't get their way. I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earntheir own money. That is beyond my control and their choice. but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries. Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

I agree ( sure I said that earlier, maybe Fraggle & I are on the same wavelength today?) The Valley Vegan...............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: if they can "make up their own mind", then thats their choice can't force change on them can only guide but..doesn't mean you have to encourage their meat-eating/cow pus drinking either.. just my thoughts tis all... cheers Sharon Murch Nov 15, 2006 6:41 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday My children aren't even teens ... they are young adults. It is not that they are rebelling, it is that I "forced" meat-eating and milk-drinking on them from early childhood. Now I have made a change and they don't want to follow. As young adults, they are in a position to make their own decisions. Hopefully they will decide differently one day. You are right, of course ... whatever our lifestyle is, we "force" it on our children. Sharon flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:39:16 PM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday personally, that thought of buying milk fer someone else is tantamountto allowing someone to shoot puppies in the face in yer hausthats me of courseeveryone is differentHi fraggle, I agree, my house is a

cruelty-free zone. My children are not teenagers and I know that teenagers rebel if theydon't get their way. I would hope that they are still vegan as they grow older and earntheir own money. That is beyond my control and their choice. but for now, it is my wallet, and I buy the groceries. History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

for the most part...male calves are unwanted in dairy farms

a very tiny fraction are saved to be used to inseminate cows later in life

as you might imagine, they are very particular about who gets to be saved to play stud

(tho, they never actually get to mate...its all artificial)

 

male calves are wither turned into week old veal, or are fed a different special liquid diet and killed after 4-5 months...two different types of veal

 

now...an organic "free range" milk, would be better..i guess slightly..then safeway. for the adult...(assuming they are truly free range..as it is a worthless title)..but doesn't help their offspring....

Sharon Murch Nov 14, 2006 6:45 PM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

Thanks, Jo. My main thought was that perhaps the milk I drive fifteen miles to buy at Whole Foods Market might be kinder than the store brand at Safeway or Albertson's. I know it's not going to be beneficial to any animals, but is there any possibility it might be less harmful? Do all dairies always turn their baby boy cows into veal?

 

Sharon

jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 10:35:36 AMRe: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

Hi Sharon

 

I think you are doing well to have so many vegetarians in your family, and to go vegan yourself.

 

Personally, I would buy the milk for my family if they wanted it. I'm not saying that is right - just what I would do. Have they tried soya or rice milk though. That is what we have. I do buy milk for my daughter when she visits.

 

Jo

 

-

Sharon Murch

@gro ups.com

Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:56 PM

Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

Thanks, Geraldine and Jo. Let me introduce myself. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I have kids who are young adults, which makes me an older adult. I work at a pretty large high school and love teenagers. I was a vegetarian years back, then stopped, and went back to it when some of the teens directed me to "meet your meat" on the PETA website. There is a pretty large group of committed vegetarians among the kids, including my 13-year old, but they all seemed to be in agreement that being a vegan was just too hard ... you know, when they go to all those fast food restaurants there are options available for vegetarians, but when you go vegan it is a bit harder ... not to mention their beloved pizza. And I also thought veganism would be too difficult.

 

But a month or so ago I came to the sudden realization that all those extra dairy products we vegetarians were consuming were in effect sentencing even more animals to lives of nothing but misery and suffering. So I took the plunge, and you know I discovered it isn't really hard at all! Of course, I don't hang out at fast food joints, and I do buy my own groceries. Most of the kids have parents who are meat-eaters. But I've been passing the message on to the kids, and giving them suggestions about good and easy vegan food. You know, that grilled non-cheese sandwich surpasses any grilled cheese sandwich I've ever had. I also have a "myspace" so I try to pass some information along to the kids there. My own vegetarian daughter has resisted veganism, but lately she has decided she must be lactose intolerant because every time she eats dairy products they give her a tummy ache.

 

Now let me ask you a question regarding dairy products. I have a 15-year old, 18-year old and 21-year old who will not give up milk. So I have the option of saying I won't buy it, and they go to the local store and buy the local store brand of milk. Or when I drive fifteen miles to the nearest Whole Foods Market, I can buy Clover Stornetta milk, which makes it sound as though their cows are lounging around in grassy green pastures. I'm smart enough to know that I can't necessarily believe everything I am told, but is there a more compassionate brand of milk for my family, and for an ethics question ... would you tell your kids you aren't going to buy them milk and let them get what they will (they are old enough to drive and buy), or would you buy a different brand yourself???

 

And finally, regarding AETA ... I really just can't believe such a thing can happen in this country. I recall reading one of the congressmen remarked that it might violate some civil rights, and another congressman commented that the ACLU hadn't said anything about it so it must be okay. I suspect that the ACLU thinks only some people have civil rights, and I guess animal lovers aren't in that group. But exactly how far can our rights be taken away. Did the SHAC 7 really go to prison solely for running a website? And in the recent searches of animal activists' homes in Los Angeles recently, what were they looking for?

 

Anyway, pleased to meet you all.

 

Sharon

Geraldine McCarthy <geraldine.mccarthy@ tesco.net>@gro ups.comMonday, November 13, 2006 3:21:29 AMRe: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

Hi Sharon,

 

Welcome to Vegan Chat

 

Geraldine

(UK)

 

 

-

compassion2grace

@gro ups.com

Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:03 PM

URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

 

Hi there. I am new here and I hope to post an introduction soon, but in the meantime I wanted to pass this along to you. This bill, which is aimed solely at those who protest animal abuse, labeling them terrorists and giving jail time even if they are only using their right to free speech and not harming anybody's property or causing economic damage. It is up for a vote without discussion at the House of Representatives on Monday's calendar, so call or write your representative now! Instructions for finding out who your representative is are in this post.

Thanks. Sharon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please forward immediately & widely -- (online version)

BREAKING NEWS Action Alert -- House Vote on AETA this Monday! This is your ONLY chance to defeat the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (HR 4239, S3880)!

In a late night move on Friday, AETA was added to the House Suspension Calendar for THIS Monday! This underhanded fast-track maneuver, like the one in the Senate, means that AETA will not have any debate... only an up/down vote.

 

Contact your Representative this weekend and Monday morning! Identify your House Rep: name, fax, e-mail, and phone number at http://www.house. govThen, use our sample letter and/or the talking points below to...

Be a triple hitter for the animals:

1. Call direct or use the switchboard 202-225-3121

2. Fax

3. E-mail

Remember, all contact info is at www.house.gov.

Talking Points!

"As your constituent, I strongly urge you to: (1) vote NO on the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (HR4239, S 3880), which is currently on the suspension calendar for 11/13 to be voted on Monday after 6:30pm, and (2) to contact Rep. Sensenbrenner to remove the bill from the suspension calendar. The measure is much too important to pass without discussion."

The bill must be opposed for the following reasons:

 

AETA is opposed by more than 130 animal protection, social justice, and civil liberty organizations including: National Lawyers Guild, Humane Society of the U.S., ASPCA, Natural Resources Defense Council, and the League of Humane Voters. Click here for opposition list. AETA deserves a hearing to afford its many opponents a voice.

AETA denies equal protection under the law and limits freedom of speech and assembly. AETA unfairly brands as `terrorists' nonviolent animal protection advocates. AETA unfairly brands as `terrorism' nonviolent civil disobedience and undercover investigations. AETA invokes excessively harsh penalties for comparable offenses.

AETA is excessively broad and vague by covering innocent parties. AETA may authorize unwarranted wiretapping of animal protection advocates. AETA has a chilling effect on all forms of social justice and life affirming advocacy.AETA interferes with prosecution of real terrorism against the American people.

Join Us for the Anti-AETA Lobby Day on Monday!

Please join us in Washington, DC for an emergency Anti-AETA Lobby Day on Monday, November 13, starting at 10 am. Please dress conservatively. The details will be announced on NoAETA.org by Monday morning. You can also call 800-632-8688 or 202-468-4834.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----

This alert is sponsored by the Equal Justice Alliance, a national coalition of social advocacy organizations preserving free speech and equal treatment under the law by defeating AETA. Details at 800-632-8688.

Thank you and please forward widely and immediately! online version

 

 

 

To / change profile: click here

Our address: 10101 Ashburton LaneBethesda, Maryland 20817

 

 

 

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

[Guest guest]

yeah post it to me...............on the web. The Valley Vegan.................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: would you care for some virtual aspirin? peter VV Nov 15, 2006 11:28 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday hypothetical

headache coming on! The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) com> wrote: History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

are saying you don't dictate wot yer kids eat?

you buy it, no?

how many children only want to eat cake and candy?

is it ok to give into that then?

why not?

 

 

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:41 PM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

every one a gem, roll up roll up, opinions valid one and all.

radically changing their diet and dictating what they eat is not a dictatorship?

 

The Valley Vegan..............

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

[Guest guest]

you haven't seen my furkids then...!!!!

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:36 PM Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

nowt wrong at all I`m one too,just doesnt compare to humans though, they dont answer back for one!

 

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

[Guest guest]

like i said

everyone is different

has different needs

just like there's no one reason people become vegan

for me...i don't think i could be with someone who didn't share my belief systems...at least had a similar frame of thought...

thats just me

*shrug*

yes, love is blind..but i don;t have to listen to it!

hee hee

 

Sharon Murch Nov 15, 2006 9:55 AM Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

But if you are already in a relationship when you become a vegan, I can't say I'd think it appropriate to dump the other person because they are still eating meat. You just might love them, and you may have made a commitment and that commitment should be honored. If you continue to live with them, and exhibit your compassion in your life as well as your diet, perhaps one day they will see the light also.

 

Sharon

fraggle <EBbrewpunx Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:25:56 AMRe: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

 

 

everyone is different

and everyone draws their lines in different places...

 

personally.. .and again, i said personally.. i couldn't be with a carnie

i look at it this way..what if my partner had a slave?

well..i'm an abolutionist. ..but my partner owns slaves..but i can't force him/her to do what i do...

but, since i came along..she only whips them when they are really bad....

*shrug*

evetyone see's things differently. ..

and, never said it all was suppose to make sense, er be easy

cheers

fraggle

peter VV Nov 15, 2006 12:43 AM @gro ups.com Re: Re: URGENT! Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act vot Monday

I accept your point of view, but disagree. My wife is the only carnie in our house, and I will not force my views on her,nor her on me, its her life as well as my kids, who if they chose to eat animals would be their choice. I dont see how my letting them make their own choices makes me a bad person, or compromises my lifestyle as a vegan. She does eat less animals since she met me , as she will eat what I cook out of convenience, so from that perspective it is making a small difference.

 

The Valley Vegan....... ......flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher

 

History repeats itself

and each time the price gets higher