800 open relationship members??

[Guest guest]

Hi Alex,

 

As a non-poly I do not think that you came across the wrong way at

all.

 

I'm sorry that I did not reply sooner, but I think that you came

across well and I thank you for sharing with us!

 

BB

Nikki

 

, Alex Iantaffi

<alex.iantaffi@g...> wrote:

>

> Thank you *blush* I hope I didn't come across too preachy or

strongly to non

> poly people on the list. If I have, sorry but this is part of my

life so I

> do feel strongly about it.

>

> Ah, so s/he might know that feeling of not belonging quite in any

community

> at first (although I was lucky to find the English bi community

fairly

> swiftly)...

>

> BB

> Alex

>

[Guest guest]

Alex, why do you think it was harder for you to accept being bi-sexual?

 

I agree that no two relationships are the same, whether sexual or not.Alex Iantaffi <alex.iantaffi wrote:

I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous relationships are the same usually although there is more of a dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Not too strong to me. I am a very curious person and I hope y'all don't mind my questions. I know I have more, I'm just too darned tired to think right now.Alex Iantaffi <alex.iantaffi wrote:

Thank you *blush* I hope I didn't come across too preachy or strongly to non poly people on the list. If I have, sorry but this is part of my life so I do feel strongly about it.Ah, so s/he might know that feeling of not belonging quite in any community at first (although I was lucky to find the English bi community fairly swiftly)...BBAlex

On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

*claps*

very well said alex...

 

my partner also when from queer to Bi...

 

Alex Iantaffi Nov 2, 2005 10:04 AM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members?? I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous relationships are the same usually although there is more of a dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)Personally, I have been poly for six years. My life partner, Mike, is actually mainly monogamous. He shares the principles but, in his own words, is 'too lazy and lacks emotional depth' to bother with other partners :-) Currently, I only live with him. If I ever decided to live with another partner as well, which might well happen at some point, I figure we would all have to sit down and work out logistics. I imagine housework would be done as it is now, according to ability, time and preferences. As long as everyone feels they are contributing in some ways and not put upon, it should work, as indeed it does for other poly

households I know. I think that sharing similar values and beliefs when living together is far more important than who does the dishes :-)I hear what you are saying about family Anouk. I was born and raised in Italy, in a catholic family and my mother is Sicilian. My life choices are not exactly what my family dreamt for me :-) I suppose that I 'disappointed' my family well before coming out as poly by being out as queer (lesbian for a few years, then accepting my bisexuality, which was actually harder to face in some ways) and then as a witch. Not baptising my daughter is probably a far worse crime for my mother than having multiple partners! I am not saying it's easy to be out to my family and friends about my choices. I just cannot live a life of secrecy and I certainly don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that there is anything wrong with my life choices or who I am and that's why I am out. Other people are not and I respect their right not to be as open.

Jo, you ask some good questions and I would be very happy to chat about this face to face sometime, if you like. For now, I'd say that for me it is possible to love more than one person. In fact most people love more than one person usually but they might just have sex with one person. I suppose I personally do not believe that I have to be sexually exclusive with one person or that I cannot have meaningful relationships with more than one person. I am a jealous person and it is not always easy to deal with issues such as insecurity, envy about time spent with other people, etc. However, it is the work of a lifetime. Knowing myself in all of my parts is my job both as a witch and a nearly qualified therapist. Being poly is challenging at times but it has also helped me to face many of my own demons. For me, being poly is also a political, as well as a personal issue. It means I can be more visibly queer despite living with a man and also that I can challenge institutions

such as marriage, which are often used by society to promote a heteronormative discourse, that is values that privilege heterosexual, monogamous relationships above all others. Relationships, which, sadly, often (not always!) reinforce gender division and stereotyping (not long ago marriage was a way to control women and property!). Having said that, I think monogamy is as wonderful a choice as polyamory or indeed as any shades in between the two. You and Colin having something great together, which is very obvious meeting you. I believe that I too have strong relationships with my partners, although sadly I am not always able to express my love opnely in order to respect their right to privacy. Finally (and I apologise as this has become a long post but it is a subject close to my heart), yes, some people happen to be in poly relationships because they fall in love with one person. Mike would probably not be in a poly relationship if I weren't poly. Does that mean I am

'imposing' my life style on him? Some of our acquaintances have suggested that in the past. I think it just means that he is in love and wants to be with me. He accepts who I am just as I have to accept his choice of wanting only one child, whereas I would love more. Relationships are what is created by the people involved. In the immortal words of one of my favourites films, Bound, 'we make our own choices, pay our own prices'. Other people have in the past decided not to have a relationship with me because of my polyness. I have also decided not to have relationships with people in the past because of other incompatibilities (the most basic, smoking as I am a non-smoker). I suppose we know what we can and cannot live with when we love someone. Being in a relationship is always a step into the unknown to a certain degree, whether the relationship is mono or poly. Oh hum, I have waffled on the topic more than enough! Sorry. I hope some of it makes sense as my head is woolly

today but I thought it was important to try and share some of my thoughts :-)BBAlex

 

On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx > wrote: that all depends on the person and his/her partnersi don't think any poly relationship is exactly like another.... i've had both poly and open relationships...when rebecca and i first started seeing each other, i had several other gurlfriends...slowly..it just became me and her exclusive...will it stay that way? *shrug*dunno...we are happy together...but we have a very fluid and open relationship...and neither of us likes..um...conventionality to muchwotever happens...happenscheersfraggle heartwerk <jo.heartworkNov 1, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: 800 members??Hi AnoukI can understand your parents point of view, and assume that they want what they consider to be the best for you. If they are happy in a one-to-one exclusive relationship, as I am, it would be hard to imagine that anything other situation could be as good for their children.I know it would not suit me. I love Colin very, very much. I would not be able to share him. I would rather be resigned to not having him at all than sharing him - that would prolong the agony for me - but I guess everyone is different.My own wonderings on poly relationships is whether sometimes a person may become involved because they love ~one~ person who is already in a relationship, and although it might not be ideal for them, they feel it is better than nothing. Is it

possible to love two or more people in a sexual way equally - or doesn't it matter to the participants? Do people in poly relationships always remain in poly relationships or do some of them eventually become exclusive - and does this cause hurt to the rest of the group? So many questions. Anyway - it is none of my business, but I am always interested in people.Jo , "Anouk Sickler" <zurumato@e ...> wrote:>> <jonnie_hellens> wrote:> > Hi Alex. I remember you mentioned on another post that you have> multible partners. I'm assuming that is relationship partners? If > so, I'm wondering (and I think there are others here that also might> be able to answer) how work is divided. > >

> That's easy> the girl> is like a princess and the two guys just please her > just kidding!!> > > I have an open mind, but if I were to engage in lifelstyle > that is not the mainstream, I would have to work hard> to keep it a secret.> unfortunatley > it is sad but my family and relatives are real judgemental> of any behaviour outside the norm, (heavily catholic)> and so If I where to venture outside of a normal marriage> or even before I met my husband.. > I fear that there disapproval would be too much..especially > my mothers.> although sometimes I don't care and I shock them with things that > I say.> I trie to tell them as little > about the "real me" as possible, Just to maintain my privacy.> > In the past whenever I have oppened up to them, they were just > not accepting. > sad but

true. > Distance is good. >To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

HI Alex

 

I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

 

There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners have other partners as well? In the group are there always main partners for each person?

 

BBJo

 

-

Alex Iantaffi

Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:04 PM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous relationships are the same usually although there is more of a dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)Personally, I have been poly for six years. My life partner, Mike, is actually mainly monogamous. He shares the principles but, in his own words, is 'too lazy and lacks emotional depth' to bother with other partners :-) Currently, I only live with him. If I ever decided to live with another partner as well, which might well happen at some point, I figure we would all have to sit down and work out logistics. I imagine housework would be done as it is now, according to ability, time and preferences. As long as everyone feels they are contributing in some ways and not put upon, it should work, as indeed it does for other poly households I know. I think that sharing similar values and beliefs when living together is far more important than who does the dishes :-)I hear what you are saying about family Anouk. I was born and raised in Italy, in a catholic family and my mother is Sicilian. My life choices are not exactly what my family dreamt for me :-) I suppose that I 'disappointed' my family well before coming out as poly by being out as queer (lesbian for a few years, then accepting my bisexuality, which was actually harder to face in some ways) and then as a witch. Not baptising my daughter is probably a far worse crime for my mother than having multiple partners! I am not saying it's easy to be out to my family and friends about my choices. I just cannot live a life of secrecy and I certainly don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that there is anything wrong with my life choices or who I am and that's why I am out. Other people are not and I respect their right not to be as open. Jo, you ask some good questions and I would be very happy to chat about this face to face sometime, if you like. For now, I'd say that for me it is possible to love more than one person. In fact most people love more than one person usually but they might just have sex with one person. I suppose I personally do not believe that I have to be sexually exclusive with one person or that I cannot have meaningful relationships with more than one person. I am a jealous person and it is not always easy to deal with issues such as insecurity, envy about time spent with other people, etc. However, it is the work of a lifetime. Knowing myself in all of my parts is my job both as a witch and a nearly qualified therapist. Being poly is challenging at times but it has also helped me to face many of my own demons. For me, being poly is also a political, as well as a personal issue. It means I can be more visibly queer despite living with a man and also that I can challenge institutions such as marriage, which are often used by society to promote a heteronormative discourse, that is values that privilege heterosexual, monogamous relationships above all others. Relationships, which, sadly, often (not always!) reinforce gender division and stereotyping (not long ago marriage was a way to control women and property!). Having said that, I think monogamy is as wonderful a choice as polyamory or indeed as any shades in between the two. You and Colin having something great together, which is very obvious meeting you. I believe that I too have strong relationships with my partners, although sadly I am not always able to express my love opnely in order to respect their right to privacy. Finally (and I apologise as this has become a long post but it is a subject close to my heart), yes, some people happen to be in poly relationships because they fall in love with one person. Mike would probably not be in a poly relationship if I weren't poly. Does that mean I am 'imposing' my life style on him? Some of our acquaintances have suggested that in the past. I think it just means that he is in love and wants to be with me. He accepts who I am just as I have to accept his choice of wanting only one child, whereas I would love more. Relationships are what is created by the people involved. In the immortal words of one of my favourites films, Bound, 'we make our own choices, pay our own prices'. Other people have in the past decided not to have a relationship with me because of my polyness. I have also decided not to have relationships with people in the past because of other incompatibilities (the most basic, smoking as I am a non-smoker). I suppose we know what we can and cannot live with when we love someone. Being in a relationship is always a step into the unknown to a certain degree, whether the relationship is mono or poly. Oh hum, I have waffled on the topic more than enough! Sorry. I hope some of it makes sense as my head is woolly today but I thought it was important to try and share some of my thoughts :-)BBAlex

On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

that all depends on the person and his/her partnersi don't think any poly relationship is exactly like another....i've had both poly and open relationships...when rebecca and i first started seeing each other, i had several other gurlfriends...slowly..it just became me and her exclusive...will it stay that way?*shrug*dunno...we are happy together...but we have a very fluid and open relationship...and neither of us likes..um...conventionality to muchwotever happens...happenscheersfraggleheartwerk <jo.heartworkNov 1, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: 800 members??Hi AnoukI can understand your parents point of view, and assume that they want what they consider to be the best for you. If they are happy in a one-to-one exclusive relationship, as I am, it would be hard to imagine that anything other situation could be as good for their children.I know it would not suit me. I love Colin very, very much. I would not be able to share him. I would rather be resigned to not having him at all than sharing him - that would prolong the agony for me - but I guess everyone is different.My own wonderings on poly relationships is whether sometimes a person may become involved because they love ~one~ person who is already in a relationship, and although it might not be ideal for them, they feel it is better than nothing. Is it possible to love two or more people in a sexual way equally - or doesn't it matter to the participants? Do people in poly relationships always remain in poly relationships or do some of them eventually become exclusive - and does this cause hurt to the rest of the group? So many questions. Anyway - it is none of my business, but I am always interested in people.Jo , "Anouk Sickler" <zurumato@e...> wrote:>> <jonnie_hellens> wrote:> > Hi Alex. I remember you mentioned on another post that you have> multible partners. I'm assuming that is relationship partners? If> so, I'm wondering (and I think there are others here that also might> be able to answer) how work is divided. > > > That's easy> the girl> is like a princess and the two guys just please her > just kidding!!> > > I have an open mind, but if I were to engage in lifelstyle > that is not the mainstream, I would have to work hard> to keep it a secret.> unfortunatley> it is sad but my family and relatives are real judgemental> of any behaviour outside the norm, (heavily catholic)> and so If I where to venture outside of a normal marriage> or even before I met my husband..> I fear that there disapproval would be too much..especially > my mothers.> although sometimes I don't care and I shock them with things that > I say.> I trie to tell them as little > about the "real me" as possible, Just to maintain my privacy.> > In the past whenever I have oppened up to them, they were just > not accepting. > sad but true. > Distance is good.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

i know you were askin alex

but

i think its gonna be different for different situations/relationships...

with me...when it was poly..some of my partners had other relationships, some didn't...

(before rebecca, two partners had a boyfriend, another considered our relationship *open*, one just considered me as her partner)

i suppose it all depends on what everyone is comfortable with and everyone is happy....

 

cheers

fraggle jo Nov 2, 2005 3:36 PM Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

 

HI Alex

 

I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

 

There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners have other partners as well? In the group are there always main partners for each person?

 

BBJo

 

-

Alex Iantaffi

Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:04 PM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous relationships are the same usually although there is more of a dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)Personally, I have been poly for six years. My life partner, Mike, is actually mainly monogamous. He shares the principles but, in his own words, is 'too lazy and lacks emotional depth' to bother with other partners :-) Currently, I only live with him. If I ever decided to live with another partner as well, which might well happen at some point, I figure we would all have to sit down and work out logistics. I imagine housework would be done as it is now, according to ability, time and preferences. As long as everyone feels they are contributing in some ways and not put upon, it should work, as indeed it does for other poly households I know. I think that sharing similar values and beliefs when living together is far more important than who does the dishes :-)I hear what you are saying about family Anouk. I was born and raised in Italy, in a catholic family and my mother is Sicilian. My life choices are not exactly what my family dreamt for me :-) I suppose that I 'disappointed' my family well before coming out as poly by being out as queer (lesbian for a few years, then accepting my bisexuality, which was actually harder to face in some ways) and then as a witch. Not baptising my daughter is probably a far worse crime for my mother than having multiple partners! I am not saying it's easy to be out to my family and friends about my choices. I just cannot live a life of secrecy and I certainly don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that there is anything wrong with my life choices or who I am and that's why I am out. Other people are not and I respect their right not to be as open. Jo, you ask some good questions and I would be very happy to chat about this face to face sometime, if you like. For now, I'd say that for me it is possible to love more than one person. In fact most people love more than one person usually but they might just have sex with one person. I suppose I personally do not believe that I have to be sexually exclusive with one person or that I cannot have meaningful relationships with more than one person. I am a jealous person and it is not always easy to deal with issues such as insecurity, envy about time spent with other people, etc. However, it is the work of a lifetime. Knowing myself in all of my parts is my job both as a witch and a nearly qualified therapist. Being poly is challenging at times but it has also helped me to face many of my own demons. For me, being poly is also a political, as well as a personal issue. It means I can be more visibly queer despite living with a man and also that I can challenge institutions such as marriage, which are often used by society to promote a heteronormative discourse, that is values that privilege heterosexual, monogamous relationships above all others. Relationships, which, sadly, often (not always!) reinforce gender division and stereotyping (not long ago marriage was a way to control women and property!). Having said that, I think monogamy is as wonderful a choice as polyamory or indeed as any shades in between the two. You and Colin having something great together, which is very obvious meeting you. I believe that I too have strong relationships with my partners, although sadly I am not always able to express my love opnely in order to respect their right to privacy. Finally (and I apologise as this has become a long post but it is a subject close to my heart), yes, some people happen to be in poly relationships because they fall in love with one person. Mike would probably not be in a poly relationship if I weren't poly. Does that mean I am 'imposing' my life style on him? Some of our acquaintances have suggested that in the past. I think it just means that he is in love and wants to be with me. He accepts who I am just as I have to accept his choice of wanting only one child, whereas I would love more. Relationships are what is created by the people involved. In the immortal words of one of my favourites films, Bound, 'we make our own choices, pay our own prices'. Other people have in the past decided not to have a relationship with me because of my polyness. I have also decided not to have relationships with people in the past because of other incompatibilities (the most basic, smoking as I am a non-smoker). I suppose we know what we can and cannot live with when we love someone. Being in a relationship is always a step into the unknown to a certain degree, whether the relationship is mono or poly. Oh hum, I have waffled on the topic more than enough! Sorry. I hope some of it makes sense as my head is woolly today but I thought it was important to try and share some of my thoughts :-)BBAlex

On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: that all depends on the person and his/her partnersi don't think any poly relationship is exactly like another....i've had both poly and open relationships...when rebecca and i first started seeing each other, i had several other gurlfriends...slowly..it just became me and her exclusive...will it stay that way?*shrug*dunno...we are happy together...but we have a very fluid and open relationship...and neither of us likes..um...conventionality to muchwotever happens...happenscheersfraggleheartwerk <jo.heartworkNov 1, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: 800 members??Hi AnoukI can understand your parents point of view, and assume that they want what they consider to be the best for you. If they are happy in a one-to-one exclusive relationship, as I am, it would be hard to imagine that anything other situation could be as good for their children.I know it would not suit me. I love Colin very, very much. I would not be able to share him. I would rather be resigned to not having him at all than sharing him - that would prolong the agony for me - but I guess everyone is different.My own wonderings on poly relationships is whether sometimes a person may become involved because they love ~one~ person who is already in a relationship, and although it might not be ideal for them, they feel it is better than nothing. Is it possible to love two or more people in a sexual way equally - or doesn't it matter to the participants? Do people in poly relationships always remain in poly relationships or do some of them eventually become exclusive - and does this cause hurt to the rest of the group? So many questions. Anyway - it is none of my business, but I am always interested in people.Jo , "Anouk Sickler" <zurumato@e...> wrote:>> <jonnie_hellens> wrote:> > Hi Alex. I remember you mentioned on another post that you have> multible partners. I'm assuming that is relationship partners? If> so, I'm wondering (and I think there are others here that also might> be able to answer) how work is divided. > > > That's easy> the girl> is like a princess and the two guys just please her > just kidding!!> > > I have an open mind, but if I were to engage in lifelstyle > that is not the mainstream, I would have to work hard> to keep it a secret.> unfortunatley> it is sad but my family and relatives are real judgemental> of any behaviour outside the norm, (heavily catholic)> and so If I where to venture outside of a normal marriage> or even before I met my husband..> I fear that there disapproval would be too much..especially > my mothers.> although sometimes I don't care and I shock them with things that > I say.> I trie to tell them as little > about the "real me" as possible, Just to maintain my privacy.> > In the past whenever I have oppened up to them, they were just > not accepting. > sad but true. > Distance is good.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Hi Jonnie,

 

well, when I first came out I said I was bisexual. At the time I lived

in a fairly provincial place in England with a small lesbian community.

I got a lot of snide remarks about not being really queer and, to put

it bluntly, I couldn't pull at all! So I decided that since there were

so very few men that I found attractive and even fewer men that I found

compatible in relation to values and beliefs, I might as well describe

myself as a lesbian. I also think I was being affected by prejudices in

both straight and queer communities about bisexuals (e.g. we are

greedy, fence-sitters, not political, it's just a phase, it's not as

good as being 'really' gay, etc...) When I fell in love with a close

friend and co-worker who happened to be male and who is now my life

partner, it wasn't pretty. I lost many friends in the community and

even got denied entrance to the local gay pub one night when a

particular woman was working as a bouncer. I have since grwon a thicker

skin and also found a politically active bi community, which I wasn't

aware of to begin with as it was so invisible (no information in the

gay press or through gay and lesbian helplines). Thankfully this is

changing and younger people seem to be more confident about identifying

as bi as there is now more visibility. Yet some people still sell

badges saying things like 'Bi now, gay later' in gay shops or at Pride

events. Sorry, another long answer :-)

 

BB

AlexOn 02/11/05, Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

Alex, why do you think it was harder for you to accept being bi-sexual?

 

I agree that no two relationships are the same, whether sexual or not.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nikki :-) It's nice to hear that.

 

BB

Alex On 02/11/05, earthstrm <nikkimack wrote:

 

Hi Alex,

 

As a non-poly I do not think that you came across the wrong way at

all.

 

I'm sorry that I did not reply sooner, but I think that you came

across well and I thank you for sharing with us!

 

BB

Nikki

[Guest guest]

Ask away anytime :-) As long as people don't mind my long replies ;-)

 

BB

AlexOn 02/11/05, Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

Not too strong to me. I am a very curious person and I hope

y'all don't mind my questions. I know I have more, I'm just too

darned tired to think right now.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo,

 

no need to shut up at all :-) There are indeed lots of possible

combinations as fraggle highlighted too. One of my partners is very

actively poly (a polite way of saying he is a bit of a slapper

actually, LOL) whilst the other two aren't. Mike is really pretty much

monogamous although he did get involved with my ex-girlfriend at one

point, when me and her were still together, but it was a fling rather

than a relationship. The other is currently only dating me but he might

also date someone else if he meets someone he likes at some point.

 

The point about main partners varies from situation to situation again.

Some people don't like hierarchical language, such as primary and

secondary partners. To be honest I don't like it either because it can

be read to mean you love one person more than another, which is why I

use the term life partner for Mike rather than primary. Having said

that, there are various degrees of commitment in relationships. My

relationship with R. is fairly casual. He would describe me as his

sweetie (what can I say, he is American after all, LOL) but we have no

expectations of each other emotionally beyond the bonds of friendship.

Yet, we have managed a long-distance relationship for over two years so

there is a degree of love and care in our bond too. Now he has moved to

the UK for a while, we will see more of each other but have no

intention of living together and I suppose at some point our sexual

relationship might end although we both hope that our friendship will

still be there. My relationship with my other two partners is different

as I love them both (and luckily the love me) in a way that some people

would describe as 'primary'. For example Mike and I have made a

commitment to each other when we were handfasted, we share a house and

a daughter and therefore have a greater commitment to our relationship.

Finally, my other partner and I have a really intense bond but our

relationship is quite new so we have hopes and dreams about greater

commitments but only time will tell whether those things (e.g. living

together, etc...) will indeed happen. Problems do come up when there is

a mismatch of hopes and expectations but that, of course, is similar to

what would happen in any relationship anyway, mono or poly :-) Sorry,

another long answer!!! Please tell me to shut up if I go on too much

when answering your questions ;-)

 

BB

AlexOn 02/11/05, jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

HI Alex

 

I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

 

There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners have other partners as well? In the group are there always main partners for each person?

 

BBJo

[Guest guest]

Hi Alex,

 

I think it is wonderful how comfortable you are and that you did not

let your experiences bring you down. It must not have been easy.

 

Besides, it is nice to have someone so open on this group. Fraggle

is so shy...

 

It is truly a pleasure to meet you and I am so glad that you joined

in on the conversations! Even if the other 79 members don't say

hello, I'm glad we found a diamond in the rough.

 

And now I must really refrain from continuing to be so nice. This is

hurting my image here greatly!

 

BB

Nikki

 

, Alex Iantaffi

<alex.iantaffi@g...> wrote:

>

> Thanks Nikki :-) It's nice to hear that.

>

> BB

> Alex

>

> On 02/11/05, earthstrm <nikkimack@m...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Alex,

> >

> > As a non-poly I do not think that you came across the wrong way

at

> > all.

> >

> > I'm sorry that I did not reply sooner, but I think that you came

> > across well and I thank you for sharing with us!

> >

> > BB

> > Nikki

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A friend of my DH is poly, he had quite a bit of money and had lots of houses with various girlfriends living in them. I never talked to him too much cuz he was always trying to invite me to his club and my DH was very uncomfortable with that. Too bad, you know how curious I am and I would have loved to have asked a lot of questions. He didn't seem to mind at all.

 

We got a call a couple of weeks ago that was pretty sad. One of his girlfriends died suddenly (my DH said he really didn't want to tell me why she died, of course then I really had to know) of a heart attack. She wasn't much older than I am. He's been with her a long time so I'm sure he is pretty upset.

 

jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

HI Alex

 

I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

 

There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners have other partners as well? In the group are there always main partners for each person?

 

BBJo

 

-

Alex Iantaffi

Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:04 PM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous relationships are the same usually although there is more of a dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)Personally, I have been poly for six years. My life partner, Mike, is actually mainly monogamous. He shares the principles but, in his own words, is 'too lazy and lacks emotional depth' to bother with other partners :-) Currently, I only live with him. If I ever decided to live with another partner as well, which might well happen at some point, I figure we would all have to sit down and work out logistics. I imagine housework would be done as it is now, according to ability, time and preferences. As long as everyone feels they are contributing in some ways and not put upon, it should work, as indeed it does for other poly households I know. I think that sharing similar values and beliefs when living together is far more

important than who does the dishes :-)I hear what you are saying about family Anouk. I was born and raised in Italy, in a catholic family and my mother is Sicilian. My life choices are not exactly what my family dreamt for me :-) I suppose that I 'disappointed' my family well before coming out as poly by being out as queer (lesbian for a few years, then accepting my bisexuality, which was actually harder to face in some ways) and then as a witch. Not baptising my daughter is probably a far worse crime for my mother than having multiple partners! I am not saying it's easy to be out to my family and friends about my choices. I just cannot live a life of secrecy and I certainly don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that there is anything wrong with my life choices or who I am and that's why I am out. Other people are not and I respect their right not to be as open. Jo, you ask some good questions and I would be very happy to chat about this face to face sometime,

if you like. For now, I'd say that for me it is possible to love more than one person. In fact most people love more than one person usually but they might just have sex with one person. I suppose I personally do not believe that I have to be sexually exclusive with one person or that I cannot have meaningful relationships with more than one person. I am a jealous person and it is not always easy to deal with issues such as insecurity, envy about time spent with other people, etc. However, it is the work of a lifetime. Knowing myself in all of my parts is my job both as a witch and a nearly qualified therapist. Being poly is challenging at times but it has also helped me to face many of my own demons. For me, being poly is also a political, as well as a personal issue. It means I can be more visibly queer despite living with a man and also that I can challenge institutions such as marriage, which are often used by society to promote a heteronormative discourse, that is values that

privilege heterosexual, monogamous relationships above all others. Relationships, which, sadly, often (not always!) reinforce gender division and stereotyping (not long ago marriage was a way to control women and property!). Having said that, I think monogamy is as wonderful a choice as polyamory or indeed as any shades in between the two. You and Colin having something great together, which is very obvious meeting you. I believe that I too have strong relationships with my partners, although sadly I am not always able to express my love opnely in order to respect their right to privacy. Finally (and I apologise as this has become a long post but it is a subject close to my heart), yes, some people happen to be in poly relationships because they fall in love with one person. Mike would probably not be in a poly relationship if I weren't poly. Does that mean I am 'imposing' my life style on him? Some of our acquaintances have suggested that in the past. I think it just means

that he is in love and wants to be with me. He accepts who I am just as I have to accept his choice of wanting only one child, whereas I would love more. Relationships are what is created by the people involved. In the immortal words of one of my favourites films, Bound, 'we make our own choices, pay our own prices'. Other people have in the past decided not to have a relationship with me because of my polyness. I have also decided not to have relationships with people in the past because of other incompatibilities (the most basic, smoking as I am a non-smoker). I suppose we know what we can and cannot live with when we love someone. Being in a relationship is always a step into the unknown to a certain degree, whether the relationship is mono or poly. Oh hum, I have waffled on the topic more than enough! Sorry. I hope some of it makes sense as my head is woolly today but I thought it was important to try and share some of my thoughts :-)BBAlex

On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: that all depends on the person and his/her partnersi don't think any poly relationship is exactly like another....i've had both poly and open relationships...when rebecca and i first started seeing each other, i had several other gurlfriends...slowly..it just became me and her exclusive...will it stay that way?*shrug*dunno...we are happy together...but we have a very fluid and open relationship...and neither of us likes..um...conventionality to muchwotever happens...happenscheersfraggleheartwerk <jo.heartworkNov 1, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: 800 members??Hi AnoukI can understand your parents point of view, and assume that they want what they consider to be the best for you. If they are happy in a one-to-one exclusive relationship, as I am, it would be hard to imagine that anything other situation could be as good for their children.I know it would not suit me. I love Colin very, very much. I would not be able to share him. I would rather be resigned to not having him at all than sharing him - that would prolong the agony for me - but I guess everyone is different.My own wonderings on poly relationships is whether sometimes a person may become involved because they love ~one~ person who is already in a relationship, and although it might not be ideal for them, they feel it is better than nothing. Is it

possible to love two or more people in a sexual way equally - or doesn't it matter to the participants? Do people in poly relationships always remain in poly relationships or do some of them eventually become exclusive - and does this cause hurt to the rest of the group? So many questions. Anyway - it is none of my business, but I am always interested in people.Jo , "Anouk Sickler" <zurumato@e...> wrote:>> <jonnie_hellens> wrote:> > Hi Alex. I remember you mentioned on another post that you have> multible partners. I'm assuming that is relationship partners? If> so, I'm wondering (and I think there are others here that also might> be able to answer) how work is divided. > > >

That's easy> the girl> is like a princess and the two guys just please her > just kidding!!> > > I have an open mind, but if I were to engage in lifelstyle > that is not the mainstream, I would have to work hard> to keep it a secret.> unfortunatley> it is sad but my family and relatives are real judgemental> of any behaviour outside the norm, (heavily catholic)> and so If I where to venture outside of a normal marriage> or even before I met my husband..> I fear that there disapproval would be too much..especially > my mothers.> although sometimes I don't care and I shock them with things that > I say.> I trie to tell them as little > about the "real me" as possible, Just to maintain my privacy.> > In the past whenever I have oppened up to them, they were just > not accepting. > sad but true.

> Distance is good.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

that is sad...

 

weird tho..it almost sounds more like a stable, then a poly relationship...

but..whichever...takes all kinds in this lil blue ball here...everyone is different with different needs Jonnie Hellens Nov 3, 2005 9:29 AM Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

A friend of my DH is poly, he had quite a bit of money and had lots of houses with various girlfriends living in them. I never talked to him too much cuz he was always trying to invite me to his club and my DH was very uncomfortable with that. Too bad, you know how curious I am and I would have loved to have asked a lot of questions. He didn't seem to mind at all.

 

We got a call a couple of weeks ago that was pretty sad. One of his girlfriends died suddenly (my DH said he really didn't want to tell me why she died, of course then I really had to know) of a heart attack. She wasn't much older than I am. He's been with her a long time so I'm sure he is pretty upset.

 

jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

External control are you gonna let them get you?

Do you wanna be a prisoner in the boundaries they set you?

[Guest guest]

HiJonnie

 

I guess your husband thought his friend would hit on you too.

 

Jo

 

, Jonnie Hellens

<jonnie_hellens> wrote:

>

> A friend of my DH is poly, he had quite a bit of money and had lots

of houses with various girlfriends living in them. I never talked to

him too much cuz he was always trying to invite me to his club and my

DH was very uncomfortable with that. Too bad, you know how curious I

am and I would have loved to have asked a lot of questions. He didn't

seem to mind at all.

>

> We got a call a couple of weeks ago that was pretty sad. One of his

girlfriends died suddenly (my DH said he really didn't want to tell me

why she died, of course then I really had to know) of a heart attack.

She wasn't much older than I am. He's been with her a long time so

I'm sure he is pretty upset.

>

>

>

> jo <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

> HI Alex

>

> I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

>

> There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners

have other partners as well? In the group are there always main

partners for each person?

>

> BB

> Jo

> -

> Alex Iantaffi

>

> Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:04 PM

> Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

>

>

> I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or

indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous

relationships are the same usually although there is more of a

dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)

>

> Personally, I have been poly for six years. My life partner, Mike,

is actually mainly monogamous. He shares the principles but, in his

own words, is 'too lazy and lacks emotional depth' to bother with

other partners :-) Currently, I only live with him. If I ever decided

to live with another partner as well, which might well happen at some

point, I figure we would all have to sit down and work out logistics.

I imagine housework would be done as it is now, according to ability,

time and preferences. As long as everyone feels they are contributing

in some ways and not put upon, it should work, as indeed it does for

other poly households I know. I think that sharing similar values and

beliefs when living together is far more important than who does the

dishes :-)

>

> I hear what you are saying about family Anouk. I was born and raised

in Italy, in a catholic family and my mother is Sicilian. My life

choices are not exactly what my family dreamt for me :-) I suppose

that I 'disappointed' my family well before coming out as poly by

being out as queer (lesbian for a few years, then accepting my

bisexuality, which was actually harder to face in some ways) and then

as a witch. Not baptising my daughter is probably a far worse crime

for my mother than having multiple partners! I am not saying it's easy

to be out to my family and friends about my choices. I just cannot

live a life of secrecy and I certainly don't want my daughter to grow

up thinking that there is anything wrong with my life choices or who I

am and that's why I am out. Other people are not and I respect their

right not to be as open.

>

> Jo, you ask some good questions and I would be very happy to chat

about this face to face sometime, if you like. For now, I'd say that

for me it is possible to love more than one person. In fact most

people love more than one person usually but they might just have sex

with one person. I suppose I personally do not believe that I have to

be sexually exclusive with one person or that I cannot have meaningful

relationships with more than one person. I am a jealous person and it

is not always easy to deal with issues such as insecurity, envy about

time spent with other people, etc. However, it is the work of a

lifetime. Knowing myself in all of my parts is my job both as a witch

and a nearly qualified therapist. Being poly is challenging at times

but it has also helped me to face many of my own demons. For me, being

poly is also a political, as well as a personal issue. It means I can

be more visibly queer despite living with a man and also that I can

challenge institutions such as

> marriage, which are often used by society to promote a

heteronormative discourse, that is values that privilege heterosexual,

monogamous relationships above all others. Relationships, which,

sadly, often (not always!) reinforce gender division and stereotyping

(not long ago marriage was a way to control women and property!).

Having said that, I think monogamy is as wonderful a choice as

polyamory or indeed as any shades in between the two. You and Colin

having something great together, which is very obvious meeting you. I

believe that I too have strong relationships with my partners,

although sadly I am not always able to express my love opnely in order

to respect their right to privacy.

>

> Finally (and I apologise as this has become a long post but it is a

subject close to my heart), yes, some people happen to be in poly

relationships because they fall in love with one person. Mike would

probably not be in a poly relationship if I weren't poly. Does that

mean I am 'imposing' my life style on him? Some of our acquaintances

have suggested that in the past. I think it just means that he is in

love and wants to be with me. He accepts who I am just as I have to

accept his choice of wanting only one child, whereas I would love

more. Relationships are what is created by the people involved. In the

immortal words of one of my favourites films, Bound, 'we make our own

choices, pay our own prices'. Other people have in the past decided

not to have a relationship with me because of my polyness. I have also

decided not to have relationships with people in the past because of

other incompatibilities (the most basic, smoking as I am a

non-smoker). I suppose we know what we can and

> cannot live with when we love someone. Being in a relationship is

always a step into the unknown to a certain degree, whether the

relationship is mono or poly.

>

> Oh hum, I have waffled on the topic more than enough! Sorry. I hope

some of it makes sense as my head is woolly today but I thought it was

important to try and share some of my thoughts :-)

>

> BB

>

> Alex

>

> On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: that all depends on

the person and his/her partners

> i don't think any poly relationship is exactly like another....

>

> i've had both poly and open relationships...

>

> when rebecca and i first started seeing each other, i had several

other gurlfriends...

> slowly..it just became me and her exclusive...

> will it stay that way?

> *shrug*

> dunno...

> we are happy together...

> but we have a very fluid and open relationship...and neither of us

likes..um...conventionality to much

> wotever happens...happens

> cheers

> fraggle

>

>

> heartwerk <jo.heartwork@g...>

> Nov 1, 2005 11:53 PM

>

> Re: 800 members??

>

> Hi Anouk

>

> I can understand your parents point of view, and assume that they

> want what they consider to be the best for you. If they are happy in

> a one-to-one exclusive relationship, as I am, it would be hard to

> imagine that anything other situation could be as good for their

> children.

>

> I know it would not suit me. I love Colin very, very much. I would

> not be able to share him. I would rather be resigned to not having

> him at all than sharing him - that would prolong the agony for me -

> but I guess everyone is different.

>

> My own wonderings on poly relationships is whether sometimes a person

> may become involved because they love ~one~ person who is already in

> a relationship, and although it might not be ideal for them, they

> feel it is better than nothing. Is it possible to love two or more

> people in a sexual way equally - or doesn't it matter to the

> participants? Do people in poly relationships always remain in poly

> relationships or do some of them eventually become exclusive - and

> does this cause hurt to the rest of the group? So many questions.

> Anyway - it is none of my business, but I am always interested in

> people.

>

> Jo

>

> , " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato@e...>

> wrote:

> >

> > <jonnie_hellens> wrote:

> > > Hi Alex. I remember you mentioned on another post that you have

> > multible partners. I'm assuming that is relationship partners? If

> > so, I'm wondering (and I think there are others here that also might

> > be able to answer) how work is divided.

> >

> >

> > That's easy

> > the girl

> > is like a princess and the two guys just please her

> > just kidding!!

> >

> >

> > I have an open mind, but if I were to engage in lifelstyle

> > that is not the mainstream, I would have to work hard

> > to keep it a secret.

> > unfortunatley

> > it is sad but my family and relatives are real judgemental

> > of any behaviour outside the norm, (heavily catholic)

> > and so If I where to venture outside of a normal marriage

> > or even before I met my husband..

> > I fear that there disapproval would be too much..especially

> > my mothers.

> > although sometimes I don't care and I shock them with things that

> > I say.

> > I trie to tell them as little

> > about the " real me " as possible, Just to maintain my privacy.

> >

> > In the past whenever I have oppened up to them, they were just

> > not accepting.

> > sad but true.

> > Distance is good.

> >

>

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Are poly relationships usually not stable?

 

Jo

 

Fraggle said: weird tho..it almost sounds more like a stable, then a

poly relationship...

[Guest guest]

Seems ironic, I`ve never heard of hypocrousy from the gay quarter before, I always assumed that because they thought themselves persecuted that they would know better? Shows what I know doesnt it!

 

You know your surname looks like a Welsh place name don`t you?

 

The Valley Vegan.............I`m straight and I`m proud!Alex Iantaffi <alex.iantaffi wrote:

Hi Jonnie,well, when I first came out I said I was bisexual. At the time I lived in a fairly provincial place in England with a small lesbian community. I got a lot of snide remarks about not being really queer and, to put it bluntly, I couldn't pull at all! So I decided that since there were so very few men that I found attractive and even fewer men that I found compatible in relation to values and beliefs, I might as well describe myself as a lesbian. I also think I was being affected by prejudices in both straight and queer communities about bisexuals (e.g. we are greedy, fence-sitters, not political, it's just a phase, it's not as good as being 'really' gay, etc...) When I fell in love with a close friend and co-worker who happened to be male and who is now my life partner, it wasn't pretty. I lost many friends in the community and even got denied entrance to the local gay

pub one night when a particular woman was working as a bouncer. I have since grwon a thicker skin and also found a politically active bi community, which I wasn't aware of to begin with as it was so invisible (no information in the gay press or through gay and lesbian helplines). Thankfully this is changing and younger people seem to be more confident about identifying as bi as there is now more visibility. Yet some people still sell badges saying things like 'Bi now, gay later' in gay shops or at Pride events. Sorry, another long answer :-)BBAlex

On 02/11/05, Jonnie Hellens <jonnie_hellens wrote:

 

Alex, why do you think it was harder for you to accept being bi-sexual?

 

I agree that no two relationships are the same, whether sexual or not.Peter H

 

Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo

 

> Are poly relationships usually not stable?

 

Now you're just horsing around :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

HI Alex

 

LOL - fancy calling your partner a slapper :-) How many partners do you need to be a slapper, or does it depend on something else?

 

Would your life partner mind another partner living with you full-time? (I am assuming that it is just you and Mike cohabiting at present), or would you not ask him how he felt about it? So many questions !

 

Thanks for chatting about it - it all seems a little uncertain for me - but the world is full of different people.

 

BBJo

 

-

Alex Iantaffi

Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:59 AM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

Hi Jo,no need to shut up at all :-) There are indeed lots of possible combinations as fraggle highlighted too. One of my partners is very actively poly (a polite way of saying he is a bit of a slapper actually, LOL) whilst the other two aren't. Mike is really pretty much monogamous although he did get involved with my ex-girlfriend at one point, when me and her were still together, but it was a fling rather than a relationship. The other is currently only dating me but he might also date someone else if he meets someone he likes at some point. The point about main partners varies from situation to situation again. Some people don't like hierarchical language, such as primary and secondary partners. To be honest I don't like it either because it can be read to mean you love one person more than another, which is why I use the term life partner for Mike rather than primary. Having said that, there are various degrees of commitment in relationships. My relationship with R. is fairly casual. He would describe me as his sweetie (what can I say, he is American after all, LOL) but we have no expectations of each other emotionally beyond the bonds of friendship. Yet, we have managed a long-distance relationship for over two years so there is a degree of love and care in our bond too. Now he has moved to the UK for a while, we will see more of each other but have no intention of living together and I suppose at some point our sexual relationship might end although we both hope that our friendship will still be there. My relationship with my other two partners is different as I love them both (and luckily the love me) in a way that some people would describe as 'primary'. For example Mike and I have made a commitment to each other when we were handfasted, we share a house and a daughter and therefore have a greater commitment to our relationship. Finally, my other partner and I have a really intense bond but our relationship is quite new so we have hopes and dreams about greater commitments but only time will tell whether those things (e.g. living together, etc...) will indeed happen. Problems do come up when there is a mismatch of hopes and expectations but that, of course, is similar to what would happen in any relationship anyway, mono or poly :-) Sorry, another long answer!!! Please tell me to shut up if I go on too much when answering your questions ;-)BBAlex

On 02/11/05, jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

HI Alex

 

I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

 

There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners have other partners as well? In the group are there always main partners for each person?

 

BBJo

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

Not me - you know I'm scared of horses :-)

 

BB

Jo

 

-

" Peter " <metalscarab

 

Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:55 PM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

 

 

> Hi Jo

>

> > Are poly relationships usually not stable?

>

> Now you're just horsing around :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

i meant stable as in building for horses

 

 

heartwerk <jo.heartwork

Nov 3, 2005 11:12 AM

 

Re: 800 open relationship members??

 

Are poly relationships usually not stable?

 

Jo

 

Fraggle said: weird tho..it almost sounds more like a stable, then a

poly relationship...

 

 

 

 

 

 

To send an email to -

 

[Guest guest]

hey..why you respondin to me.. i didn't say anything

maybe you just read my mind?!

 

anyways..it has always been the case that its easier to bring someone down then

lift em up...

if you feel repressed or persecuted, chances are, you immediately look at

something else to pick on...

a horrid little pecking order...

(of course i meant *you* in a general sense)

fraggle

 

 

heartwerk <jo.heartwork

Nov 3, 2005 11:21 AM

 

Re: 800 open relationship members??

 

Hi Fraggle

 

I have become somewhat disheartened as I've got older. You would

assume that persecuted groups would be less likely to persecute other

groups, but they seem to be just as bad. Everything seems to go round

in circles, and nobody seems to learn from anything.

 

Jo

 

, peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote:

>

> Seems ironic, I`ve never heard of hypocrousy from the gay quarter

before, I always assumed that because they thought themselves

persecuted that they would know better? Shows what I know doesnt it!

>

> You know your surname looks like a Welsh place name don`t you?

>

> The Valley Vegan.............I`m straight and I`m proud!

>

>

 

External control are you gonna let them get you?

Do you wanna be a prisoner in the boundaries they set you?

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo

 

> Not me - you know I'm scared of horses :-)

 

Well, it was either that pun, or one about getting the bit between your

teeth :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

I'm guessing that communication is usually kept open? In other words, when you guys went exclusive, it was discussed and if one of you decided to no longer be exclusive, it would be discussed beforehand? When you are poly, do y'all also discuss your relationships with the different people? For instance, my daughter and I can discuss particular things with each other, but we may not necessarily discuss everything, not that we are hiding it or avoiding it, it just didn't come up. That sort of stuff. Or do you discuss everything in detail and that's part of the 'fun'? Again, it probably depends on the people involved and if I'm being too noisy, again, just tell me so. fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

i know you were askin alex

but

i think its gonna be different for different situations/relationships...

with me...when it was poly..some of my partners had other relationships, some didn't...

(before rebecca, two partners had a boyfriend, another considered our relationship *open*, one just considered me as her partner)

i suppose it all depends on what everyone is comfortable with and everyone is happy....

 

cheers

fraggle jo Nov 2, 2005 3:36 PM Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

 

HI Alex

 

I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

 

There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners have other partners as well? In the group are there always main partners for each person?

 

BBJo

 

-

Alex Iantaffi

Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:04 PM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous relationships are the same usually although there is more of a dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)Personally, I have been poly for six years. My life partner, Mike, is actually mainly monogamous. He shares the principles but, in his own words, is 'too lazy and lacks emotional depth' to bother with other partners :-) Currently, I only live with him. If I ever decided to live with another partner as well, which might well happen at some point, I figure we would all have to sit down and work out logistics. I imagine housework would be done as it is now, according to ability, time and preferences. As long as everyone feels they are contributing in some ways and not put upon, it should work, as indeed it does for other poly households I know. I think that sharing similar values and beliefs when living together is far more

important than who does the dishes :-)I hear what you are saying about family Anouk. I was born and raised in Italy, in a catholic family and my mother is Sicilian. My life choices are not exactly what my family dreamt for me :-) I suppose that I 'disappointed' my family well before coming out as poly by being out as queer (lesbian for a few years, then accepting my bisexuality, which was actually harder to face in some ways) and then as a witch. Not baptising my daughter is probably a far worse crime for my mother than having multiple partners! I am not saying it's easy to be out to my family and friends about my choices. I just cannot live a life of secrecy and I certainly don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that there is anything wrong with my life choices or who I am and that's why I am out. Other people are not and I respect their right not to be as open. Jo, you ask some good questions and I would be very happy to chat about this face to face sometime,

if you like. For now, I'd say that for me it is possible to love more than one person. In fact most people love more than one person usually but they might just have sex with one person. I suppose I personally do not believe that I have to be sexually exclusive with one person or that I cannot have meaningful relationships with more than one person. I am a jealous person and it is not always easy to deal with issues such as insecurity, envy about time spent with other people, etc. However, it is the work of a lifetime. Knowing myself in all of my parts is my job both as a witch and a nearly qualified therapist. Being poly is challenging at times but it has also helped me to face many of my own demons. For me, being poly is also a political, as well as a personal issue. It means I can be more visibly queer despite living with a man and also that I can challenge institutions such as marriage, which are often used by society to promote a heteronormative discourse, that is values that

privilege heterosexual, monogamous relationships above all others. Relationships, which, sadly, often (not always!) reinforce gender division and stereotyping (not long ago marriage was a way to control women and property!). Having said that, I think monogamy is as wonderful a choice as polyamory or indeed as any shades in between the two. You and Colin having something great together, which is very obvious meeting you. I believe that I too have strong relationships with my partners, although sadly I am not always able to express my love opnely in order to respect their right to privacy. Finally (and I apologise as this has become a long post but it is a subject close to my heart), yes, some people happen to be in poly relationships because they fall in love with one person. Mike would probably not be in a poly relationship if I weren't poly. Does that mean I am 'imposing' my life style on him? Some of our acquaintances have suggested that in the past. I think it just means

that he is in love and wants to be with me. He accepts who I am just as I have to accept his choice of wanting only one child, whereas I would love more. Relationships are what is created by the people involved. In the immortal words of one of my favourites films, Bound, 'we make our own choices, pay our own prices'. Other people have in the past decided not to have a relationship with me because of my polyness. I have also decided not to have relationships with people in the past because of other incompatibilities (the most basic, smoking as I am a non-smoker). I suppose we know what we can and cannot live with when we love someone. Being in a relationship is always a step into the unknown to a certain degree, whether the relationship is mono or poly. Oh hum, I have waffled on the topic more than enough! Sorry. I hope some of it makes sense as my head is woolly today but I thought it was important to try and share some of my thoughts :-)BBAlex

On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: that all depends on the person and his/her partnersi don't think any poly relationship is exactly like another....i've had both poly and open relationships...when rebecca and i first started seeing each other, i had several other gurlfriends...slowly..it just became me and her exclusive...will it stay that way?*shrug*dunno...we are happy together...but we have a very fluid and open relationship...and neither of us likes..um...conventionality to muchwotever happens...happenscheersfraggleheartwerk <jo.heartworkNov 1, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: 800 members??Hi AnoukI can understand your parents point of view, and assume that they want what they consider to be the best for you. If they are happy in a one-to-one exclusive relationship, as I am, it would be hard to imagine that anything other situation could be as good for their children.I know it would not suit me. I love Colin very, very much. I would not be able to share him. I would rather be resigned to not having him at all than sharing him - that would prolong the agony for me - but I guess everyone is different.My own wonderings on poly relationships is whether sometimes a person may become involved because they love ~one~ person who is already in a relationship, and although it might not be ideal for them, they feel it is better than nothing. Is it

possible to love two or more people in a sexual way equally - or doesn't it matter to the participants? Do people in poly relationships always remain in poly relationships or do some of them eventually become exclusive - and does this cause hurt to the rest of the group? So many questions. Anyway - it is none of my business, but I am always interested in people.Jo , "Anouk Sickler" <zurumato@e...> wrote:>> <jonnie_hellens> wrote:> > Hi Alex. I remember you mentioned on another post that you have> multible partners. I'm assuming that is relationship partners? If> so, I'm wondering (and I think there are others here that also might> be able to answer) how work is divided. > > >

That's easy> the girl> is like a princess and the two guys just please her > just kidding!!> > > I have an open mind, but if I were to engage in lifelstyle > that is not the mainstream, I would have to work hard> to keep it a secret.> unfortunatley> it is sad but my family and relatives are real judgemental> of any behaviour outside the norm, (heavily catholic)> and so If I where to venture outside of a normal marriage> or even before I met my husband..> I fear that there disapproval would be too much..especially > my mothers.> although sometimes I don't care and I shock them with things that > I say.> I trie to tell them as little > about the "real me" as possible, Just to maintain my privacy.> > In the past whenever I have oppened up to them, they were just > not accepting. > sad but true.

> Distance is good.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Maybe she doesnt want to respond to me, now I`m being persecuted!See I was right we Welsh do get picked on by the English........................

 

The Valley Vegan.............

 

Ar bigau'r drain On tenter hooks fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

hey..why you respondin to me.. i didn't say anythingmaybe you just read my mind?!anyways..it has always been the case that its easier to bring someone down then lift em up...if you feel repressed or persecuted, chances are, you immediately look at something else to pick on...a horrid little pecking order...(of course i meant *you* in a general sense)fraggleheartwerk Nov 3, 2005 11:21 AM Subject: Re: 800 open relationship members??Hi FraggleI have become somewhat disheartened as I've got older. You wouldassume that persecuted groups would be less likely to persecute othergroups, but they seem to be just as bad. Everything seems to go roundin circles, and nobody seems to learn from

anything.Jo , peter hurd wrote:>> Seems ironic, I`ve never heard of hypocrousy from the gay quarterbefore, I always assumed that because they thought themselvespersecuted that they would know better? Shows what I know doesnt it!> > You know your surname looks like a Welsh place name don`t you?> > The Valley Vegan.............I`m straight and I`m proud!> >External control are you gonna let them get you?Do you wanna be a prisoner in the boundaries they set you?

[Guest guest]

i think it all dependin on who and what you are talking about....

 

of course communication is key..as it should be fer most things anyways...

 

so like...i would tell jenine that i went out with rosa the night before, and where we went..but i'm not gonna necessarily mention what happened later...tho i might with shana...

k? Jonnie Hellens Nov 3, 2005 1:35 PM Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

I'm guessing that communication is usually kept open? In other words, when you guys went exclusive, it was discussed and if one of you decided to no longer be exclusive, it would be discussed beforehand? When you are poly, do y'all also discuss your relationships with the different people? For instance, my daughter and I can discuss particular things with each other, but we may not necessarily discuss everything, not that we are hiding it or avoiding it, it just didn't come up. That sort of stuff. Or do you discuss everything in detail and that's part of the 'fun'? Again, it probably depends on the people involved and if I'm being too noisy, again, just tell me so. fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

i know you were askin alex

but

i think its gonna be different for different situations/relationships...

with me...when it was poly..some of my partners had other relationships, some didn't...

(before rebecca, two partners had a boyfriend, another considered our relationship *open*, one just considered me as her partner)

i suppose it all depends on what everyone is comfortable with and everyone is happy....

 

cheers

fraggle jo Nov 2, 2005 3:36 PM Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

 

HI Alex

 

I'm being nosey again - so please tell me to shut up if you want.

 

There seem to be so many possible combinations. Do your partners have other partners as well? In the group are there always main partners for each person?

 

BBJo

 

-

Alex Iantaffi

Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:04 PM

Re: Re: 800 open relationship members??

I agree with fraggle on the individuality of poly relationships (or indeed any relationships! I also believe no two monogamous relationships are the same usually although there is more of a dominant discourse and therefore 'rules', etc.)Personally, I have been poly for six years. My life partner, Mike, is actually mainly monogamous. He shares the principles but, in his own words, is 'too lazy and lacks emotional depth' to bother with other partners :-) Currently, I only live with him. If I ever decided to live with another partner as well, which might well happen at some point, I figure we would all have to sit down and work out logistics. I imagine housework would be done as it is now, according to ability, time and preferences. As long as everyone feels they are contributing in some ways and not put upon, it should work, as indeed it does for other poly households I know. I think that sharing similar values and beliefs when living together is far more important than who does the dishes :-)I hear what you are saying about family Anouk. I was born and raised in Italy, in a catholic family and my mother is Sicilian. My life choices are not exactly what my family dreamt for me :-) I suppose that I 'disappointed' my family well before coming out as poly by being out as queer (lesbian for a few years, then accepting my bisexuality, which was actually harder to face in some ways) and then as a witch. Not baptising my daughter is probably a far worse crime for my mother than having multiple partners! I am not saying it's easy to be out to my family and friends about my choices. I just cannot live a life of secrecy and I certainly don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that there is anything wrong with my life choices or who I am and that's why I am out. Other people are not and I respect their right not to be as open. Jo, you ask some good questions and I would be very happy to chat about this face to face sometime, if you like. For now, I'd say that for me it is possible to love more than one person. In fact most people love more than one person usually but they might just have sex with one person. I suppose I personally do not believe that I have to be sexually exclusive with one person or that I cannot have meaningful relationships with more than one person. I am a jealous person and it is not always easy to deal with issues such as insecurity, envy about time spent with other people, etc. However, it is the work of a lifetime. Knowing myself in all of my parts is my job both as a witch and a nearly qualified therapist. Being poly is challenging at times but it has also helped me to face many of my own demons. For me, being poly is also a political, as well as a personal issue. It means I can be more visibly queer despite living with a man and also that I can challenge institutions such as marriage, which are often used by society to promote a heteronormative discourse, that is values that privilege heterosexual, monogamous relationships above all others. Relationships, which, sadly, often (not always!) reinforce gender division and stereotyping (not long ago marriage was a way to control women and property!). Having said that, I think monogamy is as wonderful a choice as polyamory or indeed as any shades in between the two. You and Colin having something great together, which is very obvious meeting you. I believe that I too have strong relationships with my partners, although sadly I am not always able to express my love opnely in order to respect their right to privacy. Finally (and I apologise as this has become a long post but it is a subject close to my heart), yes, some people happen to be in poly relationships because they fall in love with one person. Mike would probably not be in a poly relationship if I weren't poly. Does that mean I am 'imposing' my life style on him? Some of our acquaintances have suggested that in the past. I think it just means that he is in love and wants to be with me. He accepts who I am just as I have to accept his choice of wanting only one child, whereas I would love more. Relationships are what is created by the people involved. In the immortal words of one of my favourites films, Bound, 'we make our own choices, pay our own prices'. Other people have in the past decided not to have a relationship with me because of my polyness. I have also decided not to have relationships with people in the past because of other incompatibilities (the most basic, smoking as I am a non-smoker). I suppose we know what we can and cannot live with when we love someone. Being in a relationship is always a step into the unknown to a certain degree, whether the relationship is mono or poly. Oh hum, I have waffled on the topic more than enough! Sorry. I hope some of it makes sense as my head is woolly today but I thought it was important to try and share some of my thoughts :-)BBAlex

On 02/11/05, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: that all depends on the person and his/her partnersi don't think any poly relationship is exactly like another....i've had both poly and open relationships...when rebecca and i first started seeing each other, i had several other gurlfriends...slowly..it just became me and her exclusive...will it stay that way?*shrug*dunno...we are happy together...but we have a very fluid and open relationship...and neither of us likes..um...conventionality to muchwotever happens...happenscheersfraggleheartwerk <jo.heartworkNov 1, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: 800 members??Hi AnoukI can understand your parents point of view, and assume that they want what they consider to be the best for you. If they are happy in a one-to-one exclusive relationship, as I am, it would be hard to imagine that anything other situation could be as good for their children.I know it would not suit me. I love Colin very, very much. I would not be able to share him. I would rather be resigned to not having him at all than sharing him - that would prolong the agony for me - but I guess everyone is different.My own wonderings on poly relationships is whether sometimes a person may become involved because they love ~one~ person who is already in a relationship, and although it might not be ideal for them, they feel it is better than nothing. Is it possible to love two or more people in a sexual way equally - or doesn't it matter to the participants? Do people in poly relationships always remain in poly relationships or do some of them eventually become exclusive - and does this cause hurt to the rest of the group? So many questions. Anyway - it is none of my business, but I am always interested in people.Jo , "Anouk Sickler" <zurumato@e...> wrote:>> <jonnie_hellens> wrote:> > Hi Alex. I remember you mentioned on another post that you have> multible partners. I'm assuming that is relationship partners? If> so, I'm wondering (and I think there are others here that also might> be able to answer) how work is divided. > > > That's easy> the girl> is like a princess and the two guys just please her > just kidding!!> > > I have an open mind, but if I were to engage in lifelstyle > that is not the mainstream, I would have to work hard> to keep it a secret.> unfortunatley> it is sad but my family and relatives are real judgemental> of any behaviour outside the norm, (heavily catholic)> and so If I where to venture outside of a normal marriage> or even before I met my husband..> I fear that there disapproval would be too much..especially > my mothers.> although sometimes I don't care and I shock them with things that > I say.> I trie to tell them as little > about the "real me" as possible, Just to maintain my privacy.> > In the past whenever I have oppened up to them, they were just > not accepting. > sad but true. > Distance is good.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Hi Nikki,

 

LOL, I don't think I have ever been described as a diamond in the

rough! Thank you for your lovely words. I keep thinking I am shy and

coy but then my oversharing, Italian extrovert side comes out and

spoils my self-image ;-)

 

BB

Alex On 03/11/05, earthstrm <nikkimack wrote:

 

Hi Alex,

 

I think it is wonderful how comfortable you are and that you did not

let your experiences bring you down. It must not have been easy.

 

Besides, it is nice to have someone so open on this group. Fraggle

is so shy...

 

It is truly a pleasure to meet you and I am so glad that you joined

in on the conversations! Even if the other 79 members don't say

hello, I'm glad we found a diamond in the rough.

 

And now I must really refrain from continuing to be so nice. This is

hurting my image here greatly!

 

BB

Nikki

 

-