Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 master fraggle I didn't say it was wrong to have your tubes tied. I was asking the question whether it was an action that could be regretted in years to come if you fell in love with someone who wanted a child. Jo fer you miss jo, fer you there are too many lil humans on this lil rock of ours...and i see no reason why its wrong fer someone who wants to get their tubes tied, be it the boi er the gurl... and on that note, i ungracefully bow out of the subject..i'm not gonna change yer mind(and really, wasn't trying to), and yer not gonna change mine... cheers fraggle -Original Message----- heartwerk Mar 9, 2005 12:07 AM Re: Intro and Question Not the same Fraggle.Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Hi Fraggle Some medical people are actually wondering whether later in life it does interfere with testosterone production. This could be good if an older man has prostate cancer, but on the downside may interfere with libido. I think they are expecting to find out in the next decade, as the people who had vasectomies a while ago are getting old. Jo now..gettin the vasdeferens snipped shouldn't really do much at all...005 7:17 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Sterilization has no effect on hormones. They have no effect on sex. The only effect they have is on reproduction. Further, man has spent much too much time doing more than replacing. And, people are saying that beef, chicken and so forth should not be raised for food. The only option that realistically leaves is to sterilize all those animals and when they die out they die out. then let nature take its course with the rest. Lynda - heartwerk Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:13 AM Re: Intro and Question Reproducing yourself is not uncontrolled - it is replacing. If each couple has two children, they are merely replacing themselves not having a population boom.I don't think anyone has mentioned going back to nature, so cherry-picking does not come into it, and I think I am not egotistical - but sterilisation is rather extreme. Don't forget that bodies are made with the parts they need and producing the hormones they need. These hormones are not there only to produce offspring but are important to the body. This applies to men as well as women.Jo To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 On Wed, March 9, 2005 9:57 am, Jo Cwazy said: > Second answer to this .... could you say that to someone you love? How > would they feel about it? Would they have hoped for a say in the matter? People I spend time with know better than to think they have a say in my reproductive choices. That said, I listen to the people I love, and if the one of my partners with whom I would be willing to have a child were to ask me to have one with him, I might change my mind. The thing is, for me, that you lose something either way. If you have children, you lose something. If you don't have children, you lose something. Sometimes I wish I'd chosen to have children, because I feel a loss, but I know enough parents (and I spent 5 years being one) that I know that parents feel a loss, too -- of time, of carefree life, of freedom, of money. It's not the end of the world if we don't get everything we want. serene Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Hi Lynda > And, people are saying that beef, chicken and so forth should not be raised for food. The only option that > realistically leaves is to sterilize all those animals and when they die out they die out. then let nature take its > course with the rest. Food animals are specifically bred by breeders in order to produce enough for food. A large proportion of food cattle is produced through artificial incemination, and has nothing whatsoever to do with a "natural" process. If they stopped doing this, then the populations would return to a "normal" level within a generation, and there would be no need to sterilise anyone! And if I might point out the oxymoron in your above statement, you can't "sterilise animals" *and* "let nature take its course" - the two are mutually exclusive! Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 I didn't get that either, The issue of overpopulation is very important. The planet is being exploited of its resources by people who couldn't give a shit. There are the yuppies who are over 40, spent all of their young years climbing up that ladder and now want to have kids, and spend thousands of dollars on fertility clinics. Then there are teenage mothers, and people who just live off of the government and keeps having kid after kid, with no real parenting responsibility, their kids wind up with no education, no work ethic. I think that the wrong people keep having Kids, and I think more Vegans should have kids. This won't guarantee that your kid will be vegan when they grow up, but at least the aim is to have more compassionate people in the next generation. I have two boys, I don't feel guilty about that, they give me joy and have Forced me to not be selfish, to have more patient, they have bluntly pointed things out in me that no one else would, they have made me more aware of the passing of time, and have made me give up things, that I necesarily wouldn't have if weren't a parent. In other words, They have made me grow up. Yeah, I miss being able to do my own things, with my own time. Like sitting at the library all day, reading the letters of vicent van gogh, or the poetry of sylvia plath or photography or magazines. I have compromised. I also see a phenomena among my friends who never had kids, They are 35,36, 37 and forever teenagers. Still playing video games, watching all the latest movies, hanging out in bars. I envy them a little. But I also see myself as more mature, because I have to be. I truly believe that not everyone should have kids, Some people I know, should Never spread their genes around. I see alot of kids, suffering and being ignored and ill parented. Sometimes, I think that the best thing that could happened to this planet, would be for us humans to disapear, I mean, we are selfishly destroying this planet at an increadible pace. But when I see the values, that I am instilling in my kids, I have hope. , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > I never suggested it was solely one person's decision - but you are. I > could be mistaken but I think love involves compromise and consideration, > from both partners. > > Jo > > > > Dare I suggest that it's not solely that other person's choice to > > decide if I have a kid, anyway? It is also my choice, and if I > > decide I don't want to, then it's my decision to make. You can't > > make every decision in life based on making other people happy or > > you will go stark raving mad. > > Just a thought. > > Sara > > > > , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > > > Hi Fraggle > > > >*shrug* > > > >what if you never want kids tho... > > > >i know you've got at least one youngin Jo, but lotsa ppl never > > want kids.. > > > >and you could always adopt > > > >lordy knows there are enough unwanted children already > > > >just my two cents... > > > > > > .... but what if you meet someone and fall in love with them and > > they want a child? You really wouldn't want to deprive them of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 two way street.. relationships have to be dealt with as that.... and if i can't have kids(fer wotever reason), is the other going t odump me because of that??? would i want to be with said person? who knows... thats wot communication is about but....its still a choice..and some folks don't want kids, er don't want to breed er... wotever stop dragging me back into this!!!! hahahahahahahaha Jo Cwazy Mar 9, 2005 9:57 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Second answer to this .... could you say that to someone you love? How would they feel about it? Would they have hoped for a say in the matter? Jo - fraggle Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:33 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question adopt... foster get a pet rock... Jo Cwazy Mar 8, 2005 11:31 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Hi Fraggle >actually..should you be typing to me right now..? >i'd be careful.. ??? >*shrug* >what if you never want kids tho... >i know you've got at least one youngin Jo, but lotsa ppl never want kids.. >and you could always adopt >lordy knows there are enough unwanted children already >just my two cents....... but what if you meet someone and fall in love with them and they want a child? You really wouldn't want to deprive them of their chance of being a mum/dad if that's what they want. Jo To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Hi Anouk > Then there are teenage mothers, and people who just live off of the > government and keeps having kid after kid, with no real parenting > responsibility, their kids wind up with no education, no work ethic. I often wonder why the term teenage mother is used as an insult. When one can marry at sixteen why is it considered so bad to have children? (Incidentally I my children were born when I was 23 and 26). Or is the term wrongly used to mean girls who are not in a strong relationship having babies? > I think that the wrong people keep having Kids, and I think more > Vegans should have kids. > This won't guarantee that your kid will be vegan when they grow up, > but at least the aim is to have more compassionate people in the next > generation. I would have thought that a good idea too. It is sad that so many vegans seem to think that human life is worthless. > I have two boys, I don't feel guilty about that, they give me joy > and have Forced me to not be selfish, to have more patient, > they have bluntly pointed things out in me that no one else would, > they have made me more aware of the passing of time, and have made me > give up things, that I necesarily wouldn't have if weren't a > parent. In > other words, They have made me grow up. You certainly shouldn't feel guilty about it. You have every reason to be proud. I have learned more from my children than I would have without them. When I was younger I never imagned myself being a mother, and I am not a maternal type - cooing over everyone's babies - but parenthood has been good. We have given our children a loving home and I am proud of the responsible, loving, caring, intelligent people that they are. In fact - if I had not had my children this list would not exist :-) > Yeah, I miss being able to do my own things, with my own time. Like > sitting at the library all day, reading the letters of vicent van > gogh, or the poetry of sylvia plath or photography or magazines. You will be able to do that again when they are older - and you will appreciate it all the more. Jo > But when I see the values, that I am instilling in my kids, I have > hope. > > > , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > > I never suggested it was solely one person's decision - but you > are. I > > could be mistaken but I think love involves compromise and > consideration, > > from both partners. > > > > Jo > > > > > > > Dare I suggest that it's not solely that other person's choice to > > > decide if I have a kid, anyway? It is also my choice, and if I > > > decide I don't want to, then it's my decision to make. You can't > > > make every decision in life based on making other people happy or > > > you will go stark raving mad. > > > Just a thought. > > > Sara > > > > > > , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Fraggle > > > > >*shrug* > > > > >what if you never want kids tho... > > > > >i know you've got at least one youngin Jo, but lotsa ppl > never > > > want kids.. > > > > >and you could always adopt > > > > >lordy knows there are enough unwanted children already > > > > >just my two cents... > > > > > > > > .... but what if you meet someone and fall in love with them > and > > > they want a child? You really wouldn't want to deprive them of > To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 sorry - got to drag you back in - whoever heard of a Fraggle not wanting a discussion! I think in a relationship there is a difference between not being able to have children and refusing to, whichever way round it is. Obviously these things should be discussed when a relationship starts to become serious, but that doesn't always happen. If you have already discussed this with a partner then they are aware of your opinions, but in many cases it is not discussed and quite natural to expect that you will have children. Jo - fraggle Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:16 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question two way street.. relationships have to be dealt with as that.... and if i can't have kids(fer wotever reason), is the other going t odump me because of that??? would i want to be with said person? who knows... thats wot communication is about but....its still a choice..and some folks don't want kids, er don't want to breed er... wotever stop dragging me back into this!!!! hahahahahahahaha Jo Cwazy Mar 9, 2005 9:57 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Second answer to this .... could you say that to someone you love? How would they feel about it? Would they have hoped for a say in the matter? Jo - fraggle Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:33 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question adopt... foster get a pet rock... Jo Cwazy Mar 8, 2005 11:31 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Hi Fraggle >actually..should you be typing to me right now..? >i'd be careful.. ??? >*shrug* >what if you never want kids tho... >i know you've got at least one youngin Jo, but lotsa ppl never want kids.. >and you could always adopt >lordy knows there are enough unwanted children already >just my two cents....... but what if you meet someone and fall in love with them and they want a child? You really wouldn't want to deprive them of their chance of being a mum/dad if that's what they want. Jo To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 u mean vegan network would still be alive and kicking then??! dang you Jo! We have given our children a loving home and I am proud of theresponsible, loving, caring, intelligent people that they are. In fact - ifI had not had my children this list would not exist :-) Til shade is gone, til water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 ok..why? i guess it depends on yer situation/society/culture etc... 90% of my friends don't have kids... er if they did have kids, had em quite young.. whichever... not everyone wants to breed... and, again, wot's wrong with adopting? sure, you don't get to pass yer gene's on...big deal..my genes are no bloody prize anyways...isn't part of the point is to have a family and raise them to be the best lil beings you can? if i got snipped, then years from now changed my mind, there are ways around it, and i'm not just talking surgical not everyone wants kids..and all relationships are different...just all vegans are different and all dogs are different and all kids are different, etc... for me, the breeder urge(sorry to use that term, but, eh, its wot i always have...) only shows up when i'm lonely and single fer a long length of time..thats not a reaon t ohave kids, that wanting attention...luckily it doesn't last long, and i can g oon with my life for wot it is and..in my case...me..kids???!! hahahaha..i can barely take care of myself..have enough problems with the fur kids and scaley kids and green kids...and busy screaming at and trying to save the world.... could you imagine me breeding? i shudder at the concept and to think..i was going to be looking at camping locations on my lunch break and reading in the sun... fraggle Jo Cwazy Mar 9, 2005 12:43 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question sorry - got to drag you back in - whoever heard of a Fraggle not wanting a discussion! I think in a relationship there is a difference between not being able to have children and refusing to, whichever way round it is. Obviously these things should be discussed when a relationship starts to become serious, but that doesn't always happen. If you have already discussed this with a partner then they are aware of your opinions, but in many cases it is not discussed and quite natural to expect that you will have children. Jo - fraggle Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:16 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question two way street.. relationships have to be dealt with as that.... and if i can't have kids(fer wotever reason), is the other going t odump me because of that??? would i want to be with said person? who knows... thats wot communication is about but....its still a choice..and some folks don't want kids, er don't want to breed er... wotever stop dragging me back into this!!!! hahahahahahahaha Til shade is gone, til water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Hey Fraggke > stop dragging me back into this!!!! > hahahahahahahaha Look at the shiny thing over there.... (There - that should keep him distracted for a while!) BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 Hi Fraggle > u mean vegan network would still be alive and kicking then??! You mean it's not????.... and it's my fault???? Wow... the power.. maybe world domination isn't just a dream.... BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 I don't think everyone should want to breed, but I also don't think that people who do should be made to feel as though they have done something wrong. Maybe you can look at camping locations tomorrow. Jo - fraggle Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:06 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question ok..why? i guess it depends on yer situation/society/culture etc... 90% of my friends don't have kids... er if they did have kids, had em quite young.. whichever... not everyone wants to breed... and, again, wot's wrong with adopting? sure, you don't get to pass yer gene's on...big deal..my genes are no bloody prize anyways...isn't part of the point is to have a family and raise them to be the best lil beings you can? if i got snipped, then years from now changed my mind, there are ways around it, and i'm not just talking surgical not everyone wants kids..and all relationships are different...just all vegans are different and all dogs are different and all kids are different, etc... for me, the breeder urge(sorry to use that term, but, eh, its wot i always have...) only shows up when i'm lonely and single fer a long length of time..thats not a reaon t ohave kids, that wanting attention...luckily it doesn't last long, and i can g oon with my life for wot it is and..in my case...me..kids???!! hahahaha..i can barely take care of myself..have enough problems with the fur kids and scaley kids and green kids...and busy screaming at and trying to save the world.... could you imagine me breeding? i shudder at the concept and to think..i was going to be looking at camping locations on my lunch break and reading in the sun... fraggle Jo Cwazy Mar 9, 2005 12:43 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question sorry - got to drag you back in - whoever heard of a Fraggle not wanting a discussion! I think in a relationship there is a difference between not being able to have children and refusing to, whichever way round it is. Obviously these things should be discussed when a relationship starts to become serious, but that doesn't always happen. If you have already discussed this with a partner then they are aware of your opinions, but in many cases it is not discussed and quite natural to expect that you will have children. Jo - fraggle Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:16 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question two way street.. relationships have to be dealt with as that.... and if i can't have kids(fer wotever reason), is the other going t odump me because of that??? would i want to be with said person? who knows... thats wot communication is about but....its still a choice..and some folks don't want kids, er don't want to breed er... wotever stop dragging me back into this!!!! hahahahahahahahaTo send an email to - Til shade is gone, til water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 9, 2005 ya sayin i made ya feel bad??? mayhaps we should all happily move off this subject, at least until the happy faerie returns----Original Message----- Jo Cwazy Mar 9, 2005 2:57 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question I don't think everyone should want to breed, but I also don't think that people who do should be made to feel as though they have done something wrong. Maybe you can look at camping locations tomorrow. Jo Til shade is gone, til water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 it would work better with beer Peter Mar 9, 2005 2:28 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question Hey Fraggke > stop dragging me back into this!!!! > hahahahahahahaha Look at the shiny thing over there.... (There - that should keep him distracted for a while!) BB PeterTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 Why then you get a free pass in the pleasing other people department <g> Lynda - fraggle Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:28 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question but wot if you already passed stark raving mad awhile ago You can't make every decision in life based on making other people happy or you will go stark raving mad.Just a thought.SaraTo send an email to - I’m gonna tell all you fascists you may be surprised The people in this world are getting organized You’re bound to lose, you fascists are bound to lose Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 One, it isn't ludicrous. For starters, I think far too many women are forced into having children. The whole ego trip of "a son to carry on my name," is ludicrous. Good example is Yates. Two, what has superiority got to do with this discussion? Although, I would probably say they are more future thinking. Lynda - Jo Cwazy Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:14 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Just because some people have 'spent much too much time doing more than replacing' does not mean that people should not have children at all - what a ludicrous idea. Do you feel that people who do not have children are superior to those who do? Jo Further, man has spent much too much time doing more than replacing.To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 Ah, we were talking about neutering pets and people (it's not natural, how do you know how pets feel, etc). Lynda - Peter Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:11 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Hi Lynda > Do you use vitamins, supplements, use modern medicine, have your kids vaccinated? Those aren't natural! > Pets aren't natural. If you want to go back to nature, then go the whole nine yards. And give up the computer, > cherry picking is egotistical. You appear to have completely missed the point. As a vegan, I live as far as is possible without harming others - it has nothing to do with wanting to "go back to nature". If we follow the logic that we shouldn't do anything modern, then perhaps we should go back to human sacrifice, slavery and reading of entrails. None of those could be considered "modern", but they certainly cause a lot of harm. "Cherry picking", as you call it, is essential in the way everyone lives their lives. Some of us "cherry pick" due to our ethical views, others do it because they like to be a sheep and do what the rest of society does - then usually try to criticise those of us who are prepared to "stand out from the crowd" for actually caring. Personally, I'd rather pick and choose how to live sensibly than just be a sheep and continually do harm because otherwise I might get accused of "cherry picking". PeterTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 Good, compromise and adopt a child. Lynda - Jo Cwazy Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:03 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question I never suggested it was solely one person's decision - but you are. Icould be mistaken but I think love involves compromise and consideration,from both partners.Jo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 Human "invented" breeds are not natural. Sterilize them all or keep them seperate until they die out. Then let nature (those that live and have lived in nature and not been manipulated by and for humans) take its course. Not an oxymoron at all. Lynda - Peter Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:15 AM Re: Re: Intro and Question Hi Lynda > And, people are saying that beef, chicken and so forth should not be raised for food. The only option that > realistically leaves is to sterilize all those animals and when they die out they die out. then let nature take its > course with the rest. Food animals are specifically bred by breeders in order to produce enough for food. A large proportion of food cattle is produced through artificial incemination, and has nothing whatsoever to do with a "natural" process. If they stopped doing this, then the populations would return to a "normal" level within a generation, and there would be no need to sterilise anyone! And if I might point out the oxymoron in your above statement, you can't "sterilise animals" *and* "let nature take its course" - the two are mutually exclusive! PeterTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 Hmmm... good point. I know I did! ;P , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > but wot if you already passed stark raving mad awhile ago You can't make every decision in life based on making other people happy or you will go stark raving mad. Just a thought. Sara Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 Well, I prob should have known better than to say anything, but... Yeah, love involves compromise. But compromise doesn't simply mean one person does what the other person wants all the time. And consideration doesn't mean you need to think of every possible " what if " in the far future of your life to make every decision. Maybe what I said sounded wrong from what I meant. OK, I, like fraggle am stepping out of this conversation. Sara , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > I never suggested it was solely one person's decision - but you are. I > could be mistaken but I think love involves compromise and consideration, > from both partners. > > Jo > > Dare I suggest that it's not solely that other person's choice to > > decide if I have a kid, anyway? It is also my choice, and if I > > decide I don't want to, then it's my decision to make. You can't > > make every decision in life based on making other people happy or > > you will go stark raving mad. > > Just a thought. > > Sara > > > > , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > > > Hi Fraggle > > > >*shrug* > > > >what if you never want kids tho... > > > >i know you've got at least one youngin Jo, but lotsa ppl never > > want kids.. > > > >and you could always adopt > > > >lordy knows there are enough unwanted children already > > > >just my two cents... > > > > > > .... but what if you meet someone and fall in love with them and > > they want a child? You really wouldn't want to deprive them of > > their chance of being a mum/dad if that's what they want. > > > > > > Jo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 10, 2005 No. The general conversation from a few people gave the impression that having children was something that was not good. I just feel it necessary to counter that. I don't feel bad at all. Who's kidnapped the happy faerie then? Jo - fraggle Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:51 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question ya sayin i made ya feel bad??? mayhaps we should all happily move off this subject, at least until the happy faerie returns----Original Message----- Jo Cwazy Mar 9, 2005 2:57 PM Re: Re: Intro and Question I don't think everyone should want to breed, but I also don't think that people who do should be made to feel as though they have done something wrong. Maybe you can look at camping locations tomorrow. JoTo send an email to - Til shade is gone, til water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 11, 2005 Hi Lynda > Human " invented " breeds are not natural. Sterilize them all or keep them > seperate until they die out. Then let nature (those that live and have > lived in nature and not been manipulated by and for humans) take its > course. Not an oxymoron at all. So, on that basis, you would argue that the most unnatural breeds should all be neutered and their species left to die out? Wouldn't you agree that the most unnatural species of the lot is humans? I guess that sterilising all humans would solve the vast majority of the world's problems! So, let's take out the humans, and let nature take it's course with the rest of the species. I guess looking at it from a purely objective point of view, it's a great plan, but speaking as a human, not one I'm particularly happy to go along with! I'd prefer to not try to make decisions for nature, and let it do it's own work. We've already messed up enough in the last 50 years by trying to decide what is best for nature. Sometime it's got to strike people that maybe nature can work without further interference from us. Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 11, 2005 I don't - and neither do you. Jo , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > Ah, we were talking about neutering pets and people (it's not natural, how do you know how pets feel, etc). > > Lynda > - > Peter > > Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:11 AM > Re: Re: Intro and Question > > > Hi Lynda > > > Do you use vitamins, supplements, use modern medicine, have your kids vaccinated? Those aren't natural! > > Pets aren't natural. If you want to go back to nature, then go the whole nine yards. And give up the computer, > > cherry picking is egotistical. > > You appear to have completely missed the point. As a vegan, I live as far as is possible without harming others - it has nothing to do with wanting to " go back to nature " . If we follow the logic that we shouldn't do anything modern, then perhaps we should go back to human sacrifice, slavery and reading of entrails. None of those could be considered " modern " , but they certainly cause a lot of harm. > > " Cherry picking " , as you call it, is essential in the way everyone lives their lives. Some of us " cherry pick " due to our ethical views, others do it because they like to be a sheep and do what the rest of society does - then usually try to criticise those of us who are prepared to " stand out from the crowd " for actually caring. Personally, I'd rather pick and choose how to live sensibly than just be a sheep and continually do harm because otherwise I might get accused of " cherry picking " . > > Peter > > > To send an email to - > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
