The Absolute

December 7, 2009

i don't need a thing Peter.

>

> in fact there are no " things " to need.

>

> why do you attempt to scorn me and drizzle derision over me?

>

> you're talking out your ass and blaming me for the stench.

>

> i won't ask why.

>

> there are no answers to " why? " .

>

> only phony justifications and wishful thinking.

>

> you are what you are.

>

> i am what i am.

>

> and frankly my dear i don't give a damn.

>

> don't fence me in nor pounce on me.

>

> you'll just land on your face every time because i'm not there..

>

> ..or here.

>

> but go ahead and try p.

>

> sock it to me.

>

> though i don't need it...

>

> something there is which enjoys the laughs.

>

> LOL!

>

> .b b.b.

>

by what signs are we to know such enlightenment?

you claim to be enlightened but then you write prolonged vitriol, use a hundred

words when a dozen would do, cannot tolerate another's opinion, belittle and use

vulgarity enthusiastically, and are so convinced of yourself you cannot

recognise how the british spell words and ridicule this as incorrect.

this enlightenment of yours bears no characteristics similar to any other form.

how would you recognise it in another? if you were to meet another enlightened

as you are, how would you know them? would you insult each other and argue

indefinitely or would there be some point on which you could agree?

nobody ever claimed to be " enlightened " .....

there is nobody who ever could do this...

....

as far one can see....

bbb is aften in conflict with people who claim to know " this & that " ....to be

" this & that " ....etc....etc

....

they all have heavy problems with this their imaginary " enlightenment "

....

it's an endless source of fun....not only for bbb

....

Marc

December 7, 2009

Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33 wrote:

>

> as far one can see....

>

> bbb is aften in conflict with people who claim to know " this & that " ....to be

" this & that " ....etc....etc

>

> ...

>

> they all have heavy problems with this their

> imaginary " enlightenment "

>

> ...

By their complaints (or lack thereof), ye shall know them ;-).

As long as ye don't confuse it with ye own complaints about them... heheheh.

December 7, 2009

as far one can see....

>

> bbb is aften in conflict with people who claim to know " this & that " . ...to be

" this & that " . ...etc... .etc

>

> ...

>

> they all have heavy problems with this their

> imaginary " enlightenment "

>

> ...

By their complaints (or lack thereof), ye shall know them ;-).

As long as ye don't confuse it with ye own complaints about them... heheheh.

fun with/about complaints.....is still fun....

nothing will ever change the real identity of people....

no complaints....and also not the fun....

....

if there were a creator.....he/she certainly would have lots of fun

with/by/about/because of him/herself

....

Marc

December 7, 2009

Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >(methy):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I would suggest you take some time to reflect upon your

rationalisations but I know it will do no good.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > actually i've reflected on my " rationalisations " :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i.e.:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the parameters i employ in mathematics or mathematical form..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > considered as the simplification of an expression or equation..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > by eliminating radicals without changing the value of the

expression..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > or the roots of any equation given for consideration...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and i find them quite sound...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as applied to any form of any argumentation applicable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as for your attempts at ratiocination in trying to defend..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your indefensible positions of judgment..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i would NOT consider them " sound " for a second.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > though it's clear that you do..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and thus this expresses..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in acute and accurate mathematical formulation...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your inability to grasp the fundamentals of this ongoing discussion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as noted in prior responses i find this fun and laughable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and because of this factor i encourage you to continue..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > with your incredibly silly arguments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > they stretch the boundary lines of inanity.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > whereas my deductive and inductive reasoning..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as expressed in elegant and compelling fashion and formulation..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > is definitely far beyond your ability to grasp even minutely..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it's fun to occasionally " have on " with a child.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks ever so much for allowing my indulgence in this..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > playful use of your lack of talents.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and it is here again i must ask you:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > how is it that " one " could possibly " take " time?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > from where and by what imaginary method could time be taken?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > now i'd say " save yourself the time " in trying to figure that out..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but that would be as silly as..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your concepts of time waste or the taking of same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i'm sure that you don't understand.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that's ok muffin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as for it doing or not doing " me " any " good " ..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > try this:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > what is the " good " ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you come back to this time and again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and considering that both " time " and the " good " ..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > are wispy and ludicrous abstractions at best..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your suggestion re same is..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > further indication of your lack of undertsanding.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > by golly this is fun!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >(methy):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your particular beat style seems deranged to me. Like that of

someone who has used too many recreational or psychiatric drugs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > now methy!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > tsk tsk tsk!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > silly fellow.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > here you sink to ridiculous levels of self defense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > because you find yourself wallowing around in muck and mire..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > unable to even give sense..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > to whatever it is which you wish to convey..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you dare to suggest that psychoactive drugs must be responsible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and you further go on to suggest such usage of said chemicals..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > was something done by the one with whom you cannot win in argument.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > are you currently on drugs?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it always seems that those who are so consumed..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > are the first to suggest that anything that doesn't cohere..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > with their obtuse views of " what's what " ..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > must be like themselves skewered in mind and soul..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > by the same affliction that besets their own sorry life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i hope you grow out and away from this evident " lifestyle " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and i must say that the source of everything..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that you have so poorly written thus far in our dialogue..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > now begins to become clear.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that's your mind on drugs young man.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and perhaps you'll find someday..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if you are lucky..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > that without those drugs..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you won't be hindered with that fictional mind anyway.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have taken issue with my using of the word " seemed " , but you

have just used the same. What was it you said (something along the line of " I

would watch that seeming of yours " ). I also recommend you take a look at some

basic epistemology. If you have any criterion for deciding what is truth you

should first test your own musings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i don't believe in truth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > all there is...is musings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and now as for your sentence:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " I also recommend you take a look at some basic epistemology. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ???!!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > OMG!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > this sounds like a nitpicking nun.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > please tell me that you aren't as nerdy as that sentence would

imply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i mean your lack of understanding and ill-educated approach..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in responses thus far given..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > have been amusing and fun.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but this kind of expression will not be tolerated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it's just so uncool dude.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LOL!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your not believing in the absolute in any way shape or form seems

inconsistent with the absolute certainty with which you call others foolish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i don NOT believe in an Absolute.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and even if i did..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i don't believe in believing AND..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as a nonexistent entity..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > of what value would any " absolutism " have?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you make no sense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > everyone (and that includes me bubba)..is foolish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and here's the fine point..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > only some..and a very few it is..are True Fools.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i don't expect you to understand.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as a matter of fact i KNOW you don't.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > no matter methy..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you are not a True Fool.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and only a True Fool would know this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you are however foolish which should lighten your heavy heart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > for indeed it must be a heavy heart you are burdened with.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you take yourself soooooooooooo seriously.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LOL!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i hope someday you understand.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as trying to explain about what can " be " without

references, I have been. But you have not been listening. Again you can take a

look at some ontology - or even maths, but you probably need to look up what

" reference " means in the dictionary.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ok let's give'er a go:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Noun:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. A remark that calls attention to something or someone.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " the speaker made several references to his wife "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. A short note recognizing a source of information..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > or of a quoted passage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3.An indicator that orients you generally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " it is used as a reference for comparing the heating..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and the electrical energy involved "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4. A book to which you can refer for authoritative facts

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " he contributed articles to the basic reference work on that topic "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5. A formal recommendation by a former employer..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > to a potential future employer..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > describing the person's qualifications and dependability.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " requests for character references are all too often..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > answered evasively "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 6. The most direct or specific meaning of a word or expression; the

class of objects that an expression refers to.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7.The act of referring or consulting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " reference to an encyclopedia produced the answer "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8.A publication (or a passage from a publication) that is referred

to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " he carried an armful of references back to his desk "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7.(computer science) the code that identifies where a piece of

information is stored

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8. The relation between a word or phrase and the object or idea it

refers to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " he argued that reference is a consequence of conditioned reflexes "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Verb:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Refer to.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " he referenced his colleagues' work "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > soooo..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > what the hell's your point?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > > > Ultimately, it's a shame you don't believe in a creator. At least

then you might have a hope of getting out of this confused mess you are in.

Still they do say that lotuses grow from the muddiest of waters. So I have not

given up on you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > now your being just plain silly.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and you can put " ultimate " right alongside " absolute " ..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if you know what i mean.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > oh wait!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > of course you don''t.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your pen pal..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > >

> > > > >(methy)

> > > >

> > > > > i know you will misinterpret this post in some fashion -- as you have

grasped that all language is but a symbol of what it is intended to represent.

and as a symbol it's impreciseness can be used as a sort of weak argument. but

try and understand the core message of this one.

> > > >

> > > > (.b.b b.)

> > > >

> > > > i never have the least bit of trouble understanding what you say.

> > > >

> > > > it's the weakness of it's layout..

> > > >

> > > > and the insignificance of what it intends to impart..

> > > >

> > > > that causes me to giggle.

> > > >

> > > > " core " message.

> > > >

> > > > oh for christmas' sake son.

> > > >

> > > > get a grip!

> > > >

> > > > >(methy)

> > > >

> > > > > you have far too much time for this malarkey.

> > > >

> > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > >

> > > > sorry fella.

> > > >

> > > > again i will state that i have no time whatsoever.

> > > >

> > > > you wish to treat time as a commodity.

> > > >

> > > > and you cheapen it as well as yourself by so doing.

> > > >

> > > > i'll not let you perpetrate this folly without reprimand.

> > > >

> > > > talk about malarkey!

> > > >

> > > > > (methy)

> > > >

> > > > > every premise i make you respond with a half baked reply and then add

seven more. do you hope to verify your opinions with sheer number of words?

> > > >

> > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > >

> > > > i need not verify anything chum.

> > > >

> > > > you however seem hell bent on trying to though.

> > > >

> > > > you lose consistently with this poor endeavor.

> > > >

> > > > and..you know what you can do with " hope " .

> > > >

> > > > it goes in the same pile as belief and time and absolutes.

> > > >

> > > > and that's a black hole of a round bin methy.

> > > >

> > > > it neither signifies nor lands anywhere.

> > > >

> > > > are you intending to be dense?

> > > >

> > > > >(methy)

> > > >

> > > > > regarding the drugs allusion (implied by your beat references) i was

only pointing that that you appear to lack a certain amount of focus as

evidenced by this verbosity and your inability to grasp what i am writing. i

apologise if this is not the case.

> > > >

> > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > >

> > > > and i'm to take it that you believe " apologise " is a word?

> > > >

> > > > i don't need you to apologize for anything.

> > > >

> > > > i could care less what you think..or feel.

> > > >

> > > > i thought i had made this clear.

> > > >

> > > > however i should see by now that nothing is clear to you.

> > > >

> > > > i'd apologize but you know where i stand on that.

> > > >

> > > > what is is.

> > > >

> > > > i live with it and so should you.

> > > >

> > > > try and stay focused methy.

> > > >

> > > > >(methy)

> > > >

> > > > > you also seem to think that i am arguing with you. this is not

strictly true. let me put it like this, you are simply thrust into my attention

by the odd things you come out with, and the way you object to all and everyone.

to use an analogy, if one steps on a stationary escalator without realising one

becomes aware of something wrong (what should be moving isn't). that wrongness

comes thrusting it's way into ones consciousness. your writings have a similar

effect. to put it bluntly there is something wrong with them. i am sure you have

the same feeling about mine, but whereas this curiosity of mine only applies to

your writings (and not to you i might add) you respond to all posters with the

same evident resentment. would you like to clarify why that is?

> > > >

> > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > >

> > > > and i or anyone else..

> > > >

> > > > is supposed to believe that what you have written..

> > > >

> > > > or attempted to write above..

> > > >

> > > > makes any sense at all?

> > > >

> > > > listen son..

> > > >

> > > > i do not resent anyone or anything.

> > > >

> > > > no one nor anything is that important to me.

> > > >

> > > > including myself.

> > > >

> > > > and this because there is no self.

> > > >

> > > > get off your high horse methy.

> > > >

> > > > understand..or at least try to understand..

> > > >

> > > > i hold no respect nor disrespect..

> > > >

> > > > i hold no belief nor disbelief..

> > > >

> > > > i don't believe you and i don't believe myself.

> > > >

> > > > and that's for one solid reason.

> > > >

> > > > but you don't get it.

> > > >

> > > > you hold that all things MUST be one OR the other.

> > > >

> > > > this is missing the Mark to the utmost degree.

> > > >

> > > > and thus it is you miss the humor of it all.

> > > >

> > > > you want to feel important..

> > > >

> > > > and you want to believe in fairy tales.

> > > >

> > > > i have tried to elevate the conversation above these fallacies.

> > > >

> > > > you are not ready.

> > > >

> > > > and worthiness or holiness or imaginary " genius " ..

> > > >

> > > > have nothing to do with it.

> > > >

> > > > It stands Alone and Empty.

> > > >

> > > > It is High Indifference.

> > > >

> > > > It IS.

> > > >

> > > > and all your complaining and whining and whimpering..

> > > >

> > > > will not..indeed cannot change this.

> > > >

> > > > i left the playpen long ago.

> > > >

> > > > you are yet playing there.

> > > >

> > > > perhaps i shall leave you to your own devices.

> > > >

> > > > when that moment Arises..

> > > >

> > > > whereby you Understand as One in Unity..

> > > >

> > > > the story of the Golden Goose...

> > > >

> > > > this Path i present will no longer seem difficult nor apart.

> > > >

> > > > and " you " have no choice in the matter.

> > > >

> > > > at this Time the wisdom of the Great Sages will be seen..

> > > >

> > > > as the chattering of children.

> > > >

> > > > but i must now leave off.

> > > >

> > > > It needs must be Incomprehensibility Itself for " you " .

> > > >

> > > > lose " you " ..and POW!

> > > >

> > > > no more questions nor answers.

> > > >

> > > > .b b.b.

> > >

> > > P: Oh ye say, can you see that all these years

> > > that you have spend here, you always manage to

> > > find an antagonist. The objects of your scorn

> > > come and go, but you stay ready to pounce and

> > > claw the next newbee who strays to post at Niz.

> > >

> > > Why do you need people to dump on your constant

> > > drizzle of derision?

> >

> > i don't need a thing Peter.

> >

> > in fact there are no " things " to need.

> >

> > why do you attempt to scorn me and drizzle derision over me?

> >

> > you're talking out your ass and blaming me for the stench.

> >

> > i won't ask why.

> >

> > there are no answers to " why? " .

> >

> > only phony justifications and wishful thinking.

> >

> > you are what you are.

> >

> > i am what i am.

> >

> > and frankly my dear i don't give a damn.

> >

> > don't fence me in nor pounce on me.

> >

> > you'll just land on your face every time because i'm not there..

> >

> > ..or here.

> >

> > but go ahead and try p.

> >

> > sock it to me.

> >

> > though i don't need it...

> >

> > something there is which enjoys the laughs.

> >

> > LOL!

> >

> > .b b.b.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~********************~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>(methy):

> by what signs are we to know such enlightenment?

(.b b.b.):

of what " enlightenment " do you speak?

and even unto now you look for signs and wonders???

do not look for signs or wonders for none there shall be.

if there were to be such they would signify nothing...

except that which " appears " to be signs and wonders..

like cheap fireworks in the nighttime sky.

nice to look at but significant only of..

your blowing your bucks up in a flash.

maybe that would impress children at the carnival show but..

they would soon be over and all would remain as it was.

expectations belong with absolutes and beliefs and wishes and hopes..

well you know what i'm talkin' 'bout.

:-)

>(methy):

> you claim to be enlightened but then you write prolonged vitriol, use a

hundred words when a dozen would do, cannot tolerate another's opinion, belittle

and use vulgarity enthusiastically, and are so convinced of yourself you cannot

recognise how the british spell words and ridicule this as incorrect.

(.b b.b.)

whoa!.... hold on there pardner..

i make no such claim of possessing enlightenment.

i have said time and again..

and you have even made reference to my stating same..

that " i " do not in any " actuality " exist.

any enlightenment would therefore only be more bits of dream-time..

useless and unreal stuff and fluff.

you don't want me to lie to you now do you?

i am the Good Shepherd and will not leave the flock astray.

we are all (AND ME INCLUDED..as i have repeatedly mentioned)..

are being led to the slaughter.

nothing more nor nothing less.

i have not left you alone.

i have always included myself as " one " among the apparent " many " .

and yet you take fault with me.

what you call vitriol i name as Truth.

it's not nice..or dream fulfilling..or " good " ..

it's not the stuff of " comfort " ..

it is what IS.

that's why you don't want to hear.

that's why you fear.

and by your loathing this is shown and known.

i am not here to bring peace.

you are to be as a Lamb among Wolves.

as wise as Serpents..Gentle as Doves.

and remember ye well..

most Good Doves shit on you in the Park.

it is a reminder..you aren't now nor ever have been in an Eden.

those fantasies are likened unto the nature of that which your " self " .

they are unreal and cumbersome stumbling blocks.

the desire or belief in them refuse unto you the ONE True Freedom.

to lose yourself as that which has never been.

it's frightening i know.

but Satisfaction beyond all Bliss..

or human ken awaits this Understanding through Identity.

i belittle nothing but ignorance of Fundamental.

it is the Prime..

of which neither you nor i nor them or those..

are for at any nano-second time apart from.

if you sense belittlement..

you think too much about yourself.

and that is likely the cause of your resentment and misunderstanding.

it's an EGO thing.

i certainly recognize how the British and the French spell words.

my extended fantasy life is a dream in Canada.

i MUST recognize both in order to read labels here.

but here..we don't spell the word " recognize " with an " s " ...

when employing our English etymological heritage.

we employ a " z " .

is this wrong?

hmmmm?

now i feel that you would here also demand..

some sort of apology for the use of many words in explanation..

because in your opinion fewer words would do the trick.

i'll only apologize that i will not apologize.

said usage needs no apology.

the words are used for clarity and completeness.

you don't like that overriding thoroughness.

too bad.

>(methy):

> this enlightenment of yours bears no characteristics similar to any other

form.

(.b b.b.):

have you ever studied Zen?

have you ever dealt with a Zen Master?

have you ever been trained in the Military..

by a taskmaster who was a humiliating and harsh drill sergeant..

who though appearing heartless had only your best interests in mind?

vital interests that you wouldn't or couldn't understand..

until after you had endured " the fire " of such treatment?

have you lived at all?

and besides..we are not here discussing..

or at least i'm not..

some fairy tale delusion about enlightenment or it's " achievement " .

if you want pampering you certainly are talking with the wrong dude.

>(methy):

>have you had so sheltered a life.

(.b b.b.):

LOL!

well kid..

i think here again you are projecting your own condition.

but i also think that says too much.

from what you write i don't think that you've had a life at all.

>(methy):

> how would you recognise it in another? if you were to meet another enlightened

as you are, how would you know them? would you insult each other and argue

indefinitely or would there be some point on which you could agree?

(.b b.b.)

we would never agree.

we would never recognize " one another " .

there is no difference between agreement and disagreement.

there is no other to recognize.

all is ONE:

in Form and Substance and Activity and Action.

and IT is VOID.

IT is the same in the lack of all of the above as well.

you do not understand.

..b b.b.

p.s.

i move that we leave off of this.

it's doing nothing in your interest it seems.

and that was my intention.

you are sensitive and caught up in self-righteousness.

and you now draw those who like Pete are of the same ilk..

in their efforts to defend you where no defense is needed.

he would like me to " feel bad " .

he has tried to elude the fact that he doesn't understand..

the method that is without method..compassion..or bullshit.

but i digress.

if this causes such pain and bitterness in you...

don't reply.

it's getting wearisome for this old guy.

and my knowledge (what little there is)..

is to be found freely by those who have ears to hear.

it is not my desire to talk with a brick wall.

and it is not clearly your desire to be informed..

that being a stone wall is just exactly what you are acting like.

let me add that you are right in being what you are..

and nothing more.

you don't deserve me and i don't deserve you.

and though there be no such thing or use for " hope " ..

nor sense in saying goodbye..when never there has been separation..

for the practical purpose of meeting you here at your own level..

let me say in final salutation:

good luck..bonne chance..goodbye.

[.bx3]

December 7, 2009

Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote:

>

Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >(methy):

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I would suggest you take some time to reflect upon your

rationalisations but I know it will do no good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > actually i've reflected on my " rationalisations " :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i.e.:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > the parameters i employ in mathematics or mathematical form..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > considered as the simplification of an expression or equation..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > by eliminating radicals without changing the value of the

expression..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > or the roots of any equation given for consideration...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and i find them quite sound...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > as applied to any form of any argumentation applicable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > as for your attempts at ratiocination in trying to defend..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > your indefensible positions of judgment..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i would NOT consider them " sound " for a second.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > though it's clear that you do..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and thus this expresses..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > in acute and accurate mathematical formulation...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > your inability to grasp the fundamentals of this ongoing

discussion.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > as noted in prior responses i find this fun and laughable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and because of this factor i encourage you to continue..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with your incredibly silly arguments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > they stretch the boundary lines of inanity.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > whereas my deductive and inductive reasoning..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > as expressed in elegant and compelling fashion and formulation..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > is definitely far beyond your ability to grasp even minutely..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it's fun to occasionally " have on " with a child.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > thanks ever so much for allowing my indulgence in this..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > playful use of your lack of talents.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and it is here again i must ask you:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > how is it that " one " could possibly " take " time?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > from where and by what imaginary method could time be taken?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > now i'd say " save yourself the time " in trying to figure that

out..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but that would be as silly as..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > your concepts of time waste or the taking of same.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i'm sure that you don't understand.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > that's ok muffin.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > as for it doing or not doing " me " any " good " ..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > try this:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > what is the " good " ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you come back to this time and again.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and considering that both " time " and the " good " ..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > are wispy and ludicrous abstractions at best..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > your suggestion re same is..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > further indication of your lack of undertsanding.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > by golly this is fun!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >(methy):

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your particular beat style seems deranged to me. Like that of

someone who has used too many recreational or psychiatric drugs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > now methy!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > tsk tsk tsk!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > silly fellow.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > here you sink to ridiculous levels of self defense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > because you find yourself wallowing around in muck and mire..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > unable to even give sense..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > to whatever it is which you wish to convey..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you dare to suggest that psychoactive drugs must be responsible.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and you further go on to suggest such usage of said chemicals..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > was something done by the one with whom you cannot win in

argument.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > are you currently on drugs?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it always seems that those who are so consumed..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > are the first to suggest that anything that doesn't cohere..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with their obtuse views of " what's what " ..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > must be like themselves skewered in mind and soul..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > by the same affliction that besets their own sorry life.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i hope you grow out and away from this evident " lifestyle " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and i must say that the source of everything..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > that you have so poorly written thus far in our dialogue..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > now begins to become clear.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > that's your mind on drugs young man.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and perhaps you'll find someday..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if you are lucky..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > that without those drugs..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you won't be hindered with that fictional mind anyway.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You have taken issue with my using of the word " seemed " , but you

have just used the same. What was it you said (something along the line of " I

would watch that seeming of yours " ). I also recommend you take a look at some

basic epistemology. If you have any criterion for deciding what is truth you

should first test your own musings.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i don't believe in truth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > all there is...is musings.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and now as for your sentence:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " I also recommend you take a look at some basic epistemology. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ???!!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > OMG!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > this sounds like a nitpicking nun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > please tell me that you aren't as nerdy as that sentence would

imply.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i mean your lack of understanding and ill-educated approach..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > in responses thus far given..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > have been amusing and fun.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but this kind of expression will not be tolerated.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it's just so uncool dude.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LOL!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your not believing in the absolute in any way shape or form

seems inconsistent with the absolute certainty with which you call others

foolish.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i don NOT believe in an Absolute.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and even if i did..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i don't believe in believing AND..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > as a nonexistent entity..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > of what value would any " absolutism " have?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you make no sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > everyone (and that includes me bubba)..is foolish.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and here's the fine point..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > only some..and a very few it is..are True Fools.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i don't expect you to understand.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > as a matter of fact i KNOW you don't.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > no matter methy..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you are not a True Fool.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and only a True Fool would know this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you are however foolish which should lighten your heavy heart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > for indeed it must be a heavy heart you are burdened with.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you take yourself soooooooooooo seriously.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > LOL!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i hope someday you understand.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As far as trying to explain about what can " be " without

references, I have been. But you have not been listening. Again you can take a

look at some ontology - or even maths, but you probably need to look up what

" reference " means in the dictionary.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ok let's give'er a go:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Noun:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. A remark that calls attention to something or someone.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " the speaker made several references to his wife "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. A short note recognizing a source of information..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > or of a quoted passage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3.An indicator that orients you generally.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " it is used as a reference for comparing the heating..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and the electrical energy involved "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 4. A book to which you can refer for authoritative facts

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " he contributed articles to the basic reference work on that

topic "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 5. A formal recommendation by a former employer..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > to a potential future employer..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > describing the person's qualifications and dependability.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " requests for character references are all too often..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > answered evasively "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 6. The most direct or specific meaning of a word or expression;

the class of objects that an expression refers to.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 7.The act of referring or consulting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " reference to an encyclopedia produced the answer "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 8.A publication (or a passage from a publication) that is referred

to

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " he carried an armful of references back to his desk "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 7.(computer science) the code that identifies where a piece of

information is stored

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 8. The relation between a word or phrase and the object or idea it

refers to

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " he argued that reference is a consequence of conditioned

reflexes "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Verb:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. Refer to.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " he referenced his colleagues' work "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > soooo..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > what the hell's your point?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >(methy)

> > > > > > > > Ultimately, it's a shame you don't believe in a creator. At

least then you might have a hope of getting out of this confused mess you are

in. Still they do say that lotuses grow from the muddiest of waters. So I have

not given up on you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > now your being just plain silly.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and you can put " ultimate " right alongside " absolute " ..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if you know what i mean.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > oh wait!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > of course you don''t.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > your pen pal..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .b b.b.

> > > > >

> > > > > >(methy)

> > > > >

> > > > > > i know you will misinterpret this post in some fashion -- as you

have grasped that all language is but a symbol of what it is intended to

represent. and as a symbol it's impreciseness can be used as a sort of weak

argument. but try and understand the core message of this one.

> > > > >

> > > > > (.b.b b.)

> > > > >

> > > > > i never have the least bit of trouble understanding what you say.

> > > > >

> > > > > it's the weakness of it's layout..

> > > > >

> > > > > and the insignificance of what it intends to impart..

> > > > >

> > > > > that causes me to giggle.

> > > > >

> > > > > " core " message.

> > > > >

> > > > > oh for christmas' sake son.

> > > > >

> > > > > get a grip!

> > > > >

> > > > > >(methy)

> > > > >

> > > > > > you have far too much time for this malarkey.

> > > > >

> > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > >

> > > > > sorry fella.

> > > > >

> > > > > again i will state that i have no time whatsoever.

> > > > >

> > > > > you wish to treat time as a commodity.

> > > > >

> > > > > and you cheapen it as well as yourself by so doing.

> > > > >

> > > > > i'll not let you perpetrate this folly without reprimand.

> > > > >

> > > > > talk about malarkey!

> > > > >

> > > > > > (methy)

> > > > >

> > > > > > every premise i make you respond with a half baked reply and then

add seven more. do you hope to verify your opinions with sheer number of words?

> > > > >

> > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > >

> > > > > i need not verify anything chum.

> > > > >

> > > > > you however seem hell bent on trying to though.

> > > > >

> > > > > you lose consistently with this poor endeavor.

> > > > >

> > > > > and..you know what you can do with " hope " .

> > > > >

> > > > > it goes in the same pile as belief and time and absolutes.

> > > > >

> > > > > and that's a black hole of a round bin methy.

> > > > >

> > > > > it neither signifies nor lands anywhere.

> > > > >

> > > > > are you intending to be dense?

> > > > >

> > > > > >(methy)

> > > > >

> > > > > > regarding the drugs allusion (implied by your beat references) i was

only pointing that that you appear to lack a certain amount of focus as

evidenced by this verbosity and your inability to grasp what i am writing. i

apologise if this is not the case.

> > > > >

> > > > > (.b b.b.)

> > > > >

> > > > > and i'm to take it that you believe " apologise " is a word?

> > > > >

> > > > > i don't need you to apologize for anything.

> > > > >

> > > > > i could care less what you think..or feel.

> > > > >

> > > > > i thought i had made this clear.

> > > > >

> > > > > however i should see by now that nothing is clear to you.

> > > > >

> > > > > i'd apologize but you know where i stand on that.

> > > > >

> > > > > what is is.

> > > > >

> > > > > i live with it and so should you.

> > > > >

> > > > > try and stay focused methy.

> > > > >

> > > > > >(methy)

> > > > >

> > > > > > you also seem to think that i am arguing with you. this is not