Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > One more - Bob, you forgot to mention David Bohm and his theory > that electrones do not behave like waves, only like particles > > Oh, well; it is not easy to cover the whole field once the game > of its unfolding into billions of fragments have begun, is it? > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > Good bye and bye and bye and ... > > -Lene :-) i like Bohm.. David's brick-a-brack talks with J. Krishnamurti... are better then the Sunday funnies i say! ALWAYS good for a laugh or two. and they take each other so seriously.. (like a Victorian Seance Duo). and they really buy into each other.. which is even funnier.. and frightening as well. it's not as if either one was short on brains.. just common sense and any sense of humor. The " Big Secret " never laughs i guess.. and we must all obey..OBSERVE.. and act solemnly. holy petunias! i thought i flew the coop from all that crap.. when i finally escaped the nuns in elementary school. good bye..aloha..adios..adieu..auf wiedersehen..ciao.. what's for breakfast? ..b b.b. > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > > > > > ~M > > > > > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > > > > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. > > > > > > > > > > actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. > > > > of the Copenhagen interpretation. > > > > it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. > > > > a key feature of quantum mechanics.. > > > > is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. > > > > which is a mathematical representation.. > > > > used to calculate the probability.. > > > > for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. > > > > the results of this burgeoning understanding.. > > > > disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. > > > > and some physicists concluded.. > > > > that human observation of a microscopic event.. > > > > changes the reality of the event. > > > > there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... > > > > since it consists of the views developed by.. > > > > a number of scientists and philosophers... > > > > at the turn of the 20th century. > > > > the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... > > > > is anything more than an abstraction... > > > > or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. > > > > or a discernible component of some discrete entity. > > > > all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... > > > > include at least a formal or methodological version.. > > > > of wave function collapse... > > > > in which unobserved eigenvalues.. > > > > are removed from further consideration. > > > > therefore.. > > > > in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. > > > > or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... > > > > is the process by which a wave function.. > > > > initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... > > > > appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. > > > > after interaction with an observer. > > > > in simplified terms.. > > > > it is the condensation of physical possibilities... > > > > into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. > > > > it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. > > > > according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. > > > > as presented by John von Neumann. > > > > the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. > > > > whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... > > > > or just an epiphenomenon of another process... > > > > such as quantum decoherence. > > > > in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. > > > > collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. > > > > at any rate.. > > > > the math is far more interesting then the story line. > > > > but as to any real relevance to reality.. > > > > let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. > > > > at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. > > > > after the scientists have successfully smashed ... > > > > or collided proton beams.. > > > > at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. > > > > here we may finally begin to understand.. > > > > the nature of physical reality.. > > > > and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. > > > > maybe it will light up our world. > > > > who knows? > > > > .b b.b. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > -Lene > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > -geo- > The wonder of it all, is that the observer changes in the act of observation. Love to *All*, Anna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > -Lene > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > -geo- > > > > > The wonder of it all, is that the observer changes in the act of observation. > > Love to *All*, > Anna > The conceptual overlay flows back into itself and the distinction between them disappears. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > The wonder of it all, is that the observer changes in the act of observation. > > > > Love to *All*, > > Anna > > The conceptual overlay flows > back into itself and the distinction > between them disappears. > > > > > toombaru > Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > The wonder of it all, is that the observer changes in the act of observation. > > > > Love to *All*, > > Anna > > The conceptual overlay flows > back into itself and the distinction > between them disappears. > > > > > toombaru > Wow, how can this happen ? Question: 1) What is a 'conceptual overlay' ? 2) Distinction between what 'them' ? Btw the 'oberver' in any case is thought. Thought not only claims to be the observer it also claims to be the owner of consciousness and to be the owner of one's posessions, to be the knower, to be the do-er, to be thinker and last but not least to be 'I' or 'me'. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 - anna Nisargadatta Monday, November 30, 2009 1:37 PM Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > -Lene > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for > himself but thought? > -geo- > The wonder of it all, is that the observer changes in the act of observation. Love to *All*, Anna You mean the imagined observer...huh? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > -Lene > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > -geo- Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to find out what is going on? Is it not peculiar that many people dissect other peoples mind /brain to detect how they function instead of looking at their own mind/brain? Is it not peculiar, that the climate changes has nothing to do with me, only with the others? " They " are to blame - not me. Is it not amusing - and worth a thought or two? I must always begin with myself was/is the general point. -Lene Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > -Lene > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > -geo- > > > > Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. > > Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to > find out what is going on? It's not peculiar. Nor is it peculiar when the 'path of return' is discovered, and one stops looking outside oneself to find out what is going on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. > > > > Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to > > find out what is going on? > It's not peculiar. > > Nor is it peculiar when the 'path of return' is discovered, and one stops looking outside oneself to find out what is going on. there's no place to return to. there is not " other " time or place. there is no one to discover a return. there is no one who ever left. there is nothing " going on " ... no inside nor outside. it's not strange that that's what thought thinks. it always thinks it's unique and correct and in need of a return... to a more " important " and " real " abode. this thinking that this is not peculiar is because: it's conceited and wrong. but many the phantom there is that falls prey to it's story. those shadows even believe.. that they are the progenitors of said thinking. the delusional " self " even puffs itself up with pride by this belief. shows testiness at the notion that it's being foolish. all sound and fury. boo! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > The wonder of it all, is that the observer changes in the act of observation. > > > > > > Love to *All*, > > > Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The conceptual overlay flows > > back into itself and the distinction > > between them disappears. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for > himself but thought? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > The wonder of it all, is that the observer changes in the act of > observation. > > > > > > Love to *All*, > > > Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The conceptual overlay flows > > back into itself and the distinction > > between them disappears. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Wow, how can this happen ? > > Question: > > 1) What is a 'conceptual overlay' ? > 2) Distinction between what 'them' ? > > Btw the 'oberver' in any case is thought. > Thought not only claims to be the observer it also claims to be the owner of consciousness and to be the owner of one's posessions, to be the knower, to be the do-er, to be thinker and last but not least to be 'I' or 'me'. > > Werner Yes, Werner. The observer/ observed issue is such a puzzle - and the puzzle is a thought-construct. The puzzle dissolves whenever the mind is quiet, no thought, no communication. I am the observed beyond doubt and I know not what it is. It is in the act of my communicating with an " other " that there seems to arise a gap with an observer on this side (me) and an observed on that side (you) - talking about a mutual observed, a third (that). It is thoughts, which communicate the whole (let us call it consciousness or reality) -BUT thoughts are only fragments of the whole - and therefore can NOT communicate the whole (of consciousness/reality). Thoughts are that to the whole which divide it into bits and pieces and communicate a bit at a time. What takes place in communication? Bit (fragment) communicates (with) a bit (fragment) about one or more bits (fragment(s). What a peculiar ménage-a-trois So it is NOT ONE WHOLE communicating with one whole as I've suggested it recently, in an attempt to cut the knot as there seemed no way to untie it nicely. It is a fragment of one, communicating with another fragment about third fragments. Thats separation in a nutshell for us The wor(l)d which is communicated is a thoughtworld or thoughtreality. World is word and the difference is? Reality as such/one whole is thus not what is being communicated. If it could communicate itself as such it'd have to happen sans any form of bit(e) -ing What sees all this - is of course the whole as such. Thought cannot see a thing - so it must be the whole from where this seeing/insight comes that eliminates the idea that reality is fragmented, iow. eliminates thought, the me (we) and the you (you(s)) and the he and the she and the it (them). Aha! AND IT Lol. And when everything is eliminated, every bit of the wor(l)d -- what then can there possibly be left? What then is left of ONE? -Lene Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. > > > > Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to > > find out what is going on? > > It's not peculiar. > > Nor is it peculiar when the 'path of return' is discovered, and one stops looking outside oneself to find out what is going on. I have heard of a path called the path of NO return What is the 'path of return'? -Lene Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. > > > > > > Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to > > > find out what is going on? > > > > It's not peculiar. > > > > Nor is it peculiar when the 'path of return' is discovered, and one stops looking outside oneself to find out what is going on. > > > > I have heard of a path called the path of NO return > > What is the 'path of return'? > > -Lene It's Nisargadatta's terminology. The 'outgoing path' is toward the world, the 'path of return' back to the Self. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 - Lene Nisargadatta Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:47 AM Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > -Lene > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for > himself but thought? > -geo- Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to find out what is going on? Is it not peculiar that many people dissect other peoples mind /brain to detect how they function instead of looking at their own mind/brain? Is it not peculiar, that the climate changes has nothing to do with me, only with the others? " They " are to blame - not me. Is it not amusing - and worth a thought or two? I must always begin with myself was/is the general point. -Lene Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:52 AM > Re: Re: The Absolute > > > > > - > Lene > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:47 AM > Re: The Absolute > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > -Lene > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for > > himself but thought? > > -geo- > > Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. > > Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to > find out what is going on? > > Is it not peculiar that many people dissect other peoples mind > /brain to detect how they function instead of looking at their > own mind/brain? > > Is it not peculiar, that the climate changes has nothing to do > with me, only with the others? " They " are to blame - not me. > > Is it not amusing - and worth a thought or two? > > I must always begin with myself was/is the general point. > > -Lene > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > -geo- > Ok, now we know why YOU are here Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:52 AM > Re: Re: The Absolute > > > > > - > Lene > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:47 AM > Re: The Absolute > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > -Lene > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for > > himself but thought? > > -geo- > > Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. > > Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to > find out what is going on? > > Is it not peculiar that many people dissect other peoples mind > /brain to detect how they function instead of looking at their > own mind/brain? > > Is it not peculiar, that the climate changes has nothing to do > with me, only with the others? " They " are to blame - not me. > > Is it not amusing - and worth a thought or two? > > I must always begin with myself was/is the general point. > > -Lene > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > -geo- > Ok Geo, ar least now we know why YOU are here There is this ancient statement which says: If you have nothing to offer then at least try to be a challenge. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:52 AM Re: Re: The Absolute - Lene Nisargadatta Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:47 AM Re: The Absolute Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > -Lene > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for > himself but thought? > -geo- Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to find out what is going on? Is it not peculiar that many people dissect other peoples mind /brain to detect how they function instead of looking at their own mind/brain? Is it not peculiar, that the climate changes has nothing to do with me, only with the others? " They " are to blame - not me. Is it not amusing - and worth a thought or two? I must always begin with myself was/is the general point. -Lene Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. ....besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his > > > > > own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It > > > > > is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. > > > > > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > > > > > The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Earth is calling: not all seem to know that they are the world. > > > > > > > > Is it not peculiar that many people look outside themselves to > > > > find out what is going on? > > > > > > It's not peculiar. > > > > > > Nor is it peculiar when the 'path of return' is discovered, and one stops looking outside oneself to find out what is going on. > > > > > > > > I have heard of a path called the path of NO return > > > > What is the 'path of return'? > > > > -Lene > > It's Nisargadatta's terminology. The 'outgoing path' is toward the world, the 'path of return' back to the Self. and you buy this? who's supposed to " take " the path? toward the " world " or..toward the " Self " ? who laid out the path? there is no path..no Self nor self. no return or departure. this may seem sad to one who wants there to be " more " to the " world " . there is not. but all santa clauses and all fairy tales must be given up. or they become..by not being relinquished.. the cause of even more illusion. and just because a small east indian gent named Nis. or Buddha.. said so.. doesn't mean anything. sorry. that's the way it is. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > > -geo- > > > > > Ok Geo, ar least now we know why YOU are here > > There is this ancient statement which says: > > If you have nothing to offer then at least try to be a challenge. > > > > Werner P: I'm here passing the time, waiting to die. Nothing to gain nor lose. At the time of death, all knowledge will fall from me like dead leaves from a tree. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > > > > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > > > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > Ok Geo, ar least now we know why YOU are here > > > > There is this ancient statement which says: > > > > If you have nothing to offer then at least try to be a challenge. > > > > > > > > Werner > > P: I'm here passing the time, waiting to die. > Nothing to gain nor lose. At the time of death, > all knowledge will fall from me like dead leaves > from a tree. you were never born. let not the notion " to die " .. concern the you that is not. it's not happening and never has or will. meditative poetry on death however.. does kill time. for no one...in no time it takes up space.. for thoughtlessness..in no space. void and vast. it's late in the day.. do you know where (your) no-self is? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > > > > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > > > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > Ok Geo, ar least now we know why YOU are here > > > > There is this ancient statement which says: > > > > If you have nothing to offer then at least try to be a challenge. > > > > > > > > Werner > > P: I'm here passing the time, waiting to die. > Nothing to gain nor lose. At the time of death, > all knowledge will fall from me like dead leaves > from a tree. > > > who dies?...Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " aoclery " <aoclery wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > > > > > > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > > > > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok Geo, ar least now we know why YOU are here > > > > > > There is this ancient statement which says: > > > > > > If you have nothing to offer then at least try to be a challenge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > P: I'm here passing the time, waiting to die. > > Nothing to gain nor lose. At the time of death, > > all knowledge will fall from me like dead leaves > > from a tree. > > > > > > who dies?... P: You're sooo Cute! Who doesn't? > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " aoclery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > > > > > > > > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > > > > > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok Geo, ar least now we know why YOU are here > > > > > > > > There is this ancient statement which says: > > > > > > > > If you have nothing to offer then at least try to be a challenge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > P: I'm here passing the time, waiting to die. > > > Nothing to gain nor lose. At the time of death, > > > all knowledge will fall from me like dead leaves > > > from a tree. > > > > > > > > > who dies?...> > P: You're sooo Cute! Who doesn't? > > > Geeze! While you're all waiting to die, I hope you have a fucking good life. ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 - cerosoul Nisargadatta Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:15 PM Re: The Absolute > > Looking at others minds is not other then my mind. > > > > ...besides, we are here to also be challenged upon our eventual > > " convictions " - not just quietly read " statements of truth " > > -geo- > > > > > Ok Geo, ar least now we know why YOU are here > > There is this ancient statement which says: > > If you have nothing to offer then at least try to be a challenge. > > > > Werner P: I'm here passing the time, waiting to die. Nothing to gain nor lose. At the time of death, all knowledge will fall from me like dead leaves from a tree. geo> Most certainly yes. But you once appeared somehow, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 2, 2009 > > (.b b.b.): > > > tell me..what IS without reference? > A village idiot! Although it is an important job... (To make people laugh) I am not sure they come with references. -m Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum wrote: > > > > > > (.b b.b.): > > > > > > tell me..what IS without reference? > > > > A village idiot! > > Although it is an important job... > > (To make people laugh) > > I am not sure they come with references. > > -m i'm sure you would know all about this type of chap meth. right pal? sure makes me laugh. specially that you aren't sure about yourself and the reference deal. what a card. keep up the important work. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > > > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > > > > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > > > > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > > > > > > > ~M > > > > > > > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > > > > > > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. > > > > > > of the Copenhagen interpretation. > > > > > > it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. > > > > > > a key feature of quantum mechanics.. > > > > > > is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. > > > > > > which is a mathematical representation.. > > > > > > used to calculate the probability.. > > > > > > for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. > > > > > > the results of this burgeoning understanding.. > > > > > > disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. > > > > > > and some physicists concluded.. > > > > > > that human observation of a microscopic event.. > > > > > > changes the reality of the event. > > > > > > there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... > > > > > > since it consists of the views developed by.. > > > > > > a number of scientists and philosophers... > > > > > > at the turn of the 20th century. > > > > > > the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... > > > > > > is anything more than an abstraction... > > > > > > or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. > > > > > > or a discernible component of some discrete entity. > > > > > > all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... > > > > > > include at least a formal or methodological version.. > > > > > > of wave function collapse... > > > > > > in which unobserved eigenvalues.. > > > > > > are removed from further consideration. > > > > > > therefore.. > > > > > > in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. > > > > > > or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... > > > > > > is the process by which a wave function.. > > > > > > initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... > > > > > > appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. > > > > > > after interaction with an observer. > > > > > > in simplified terms.. > > > > > > it is the condensation of physical possibilities... > > > > > > into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. > > > > > > it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. > > > > > > according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. > > > > > > as presented by John von Neumann. > > > > > > the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. > > > > > > whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... > > > > > > or just an epiphenomenon of another process... > > > > > > such as quantum decoherence. > > > > > > in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. > > > > > > collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. > > > > > > at any rate.. > > > > > > the math is far more interesting then the story line. > > > > > > but as to any real relevance to reality.. > > > > > > let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. > > > > > > at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. > > > > > > after the scientists have successfully smashed ... > > > > > > or collided proton beams.. > > > > > > at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. > > > > > > here we may finally begin to understand.. > > > > > > the nature of physical reality.. > > > > > > and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. > > > > > > maybe it will light up our world. > > > > > > who knows? > > > > > > > > Re the CERN experiment - there is this Danish physicist Holger > > Bech Nielsen (superstring theory I think is his baby), who has > > - de facto, believe it or not - said on tv that the experiment > > may never become a succes because *IT* does not want to be dis > > covered tee hee - he also said, there just may be a God out > > there ... who does not want to be revealed ... hee hee ... but > > when asked what is the evidence of such a god - he said: it is > > next to none, such creature is very un-likely - but who knows? > > > > > > > > -Lene > > > > LOL! > > and he said this on T.V.? > > would that THAT little device had never been invented. > > or maybe it hasn't? > > mayhap it's part of some Conspiracy Theory.. > > as yet to be discovered because " it " doesn't want to be... > > and that it is just part of some strange mass illusion... > > not a Mass that celebrates the " Nazarene " .. > > nor the mass converted to energy in a massive cyclotron.. > > rather the mass found in the assemblage point.. > > which God doesn't want us to ever know anything about. > > why on earth do these kind of folks work in physics? > > i mean..he seems like a superstring himself. Heh. He would be if only he could prove the theory correct of course. Otherwise he can't be that, only something else but he can not tell what, before he has brewed yet another theory on what (he) is and before that happens he does not exist of course, he is just on hold(ing his breath) heh -Lene > in a strange loop sort of way. > > and it appears VERY likely that he's tying himself up. > > :-) > > .b b.b. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
