Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > BTW, you're quite right. > > One finds oneself alone and helpless in a mental asylum called 'the world'. Sane, happy and at peace. > > Worth every penny of the price of admission, which is " everything " . > Tim, Consciousness is the world we share and commuicate. And that world is non-dual. It is the categorizing and qualifying thought which creates duality. This duality again is verbal. Qualification must be dual to get communicated like hot, cold, dark, bright, good, bad etc. Non-dual qualities can't get verbally communicated. To be able to survive you must verbally communicate and all qualifying words you use are dual. You can't get around the dual nature of verbal communication. There is no way out. For example when you eat an apple this happens non-dual. But when you have to describe the qualities of an apple you must enter the realm of dual verbalization. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > BTW, you're quite right. > > One finds oneself alone and helpless in a mental asylum called 'the world'. Sane, happy and at peace. > > Worth every penny of the price of admission, which is " everything " . > Tim, we are social cowards!... leaving / giving up our real Self.... intime when we open the mouth and talking worldly non-sense... lol Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > > > BTW, you're quite right. > > > > One finds oneself alone and helpless in a mental asylum called 'the world'. Sane, happy and at peace. > > > > Worth every penny of the price of admission, which is " everything " . > > > > > Tim, > > we are social cowards!... > > leaving / giving up our real Self.... > > intime when we open the mouth > > and talking worldly non-sense... > > > lol > > > Marc > There is no real Self and no false Self. This classification is total bullshit. Calling the 'real Self' as awareness is the invention of cowards believing in eternal life represented by that 'awareness'. And you Marc, since I know you, believe in that 'real Self' crap. You simply can't accpet the finality of your existence. You are a coward avoiding to face your finality ! Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > > > > > BTW, you're quite right. > > > > > > One finds oneself alone and helpless in a mental asylum called 'the world'. Sane, happy and at peace. > > > > > > Worth every penny of the price of admission, which is " everything " . > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > we are social cowards!... > > > > leaving / giving up our real Self.... > > > > intime when we open the mouth > > > > and talking worldly non-sense... > > > > > > lol > > > > > > Marc > > > > > There is no real Self and no false Self. This classification is total bullshit. > > Calling the 'real Self' as awareness is the invention of cowards believing in eternal life represented by that 'awareness'. > > And you Marc, since I know you, believe in that 'real Self' crap. You simply can't accpet the finality of your existence. > > You are a coward avoiding to face your finality ! > > Werner > if i had no idea about awareness and Self....like Werner... i would shut my mouth...instead of leaving bullshit in this his little imaginary memorable world... .... the only possible coward is you, Werner .... be social to yourself! .... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > > > > > > > BTW, you're quite right. > > > > > > > > One finds oneself alone and helpless in a mental asylum called 'the world'. Sane, happy and at peace. > > > > > > > > Worth every penny of the price of admission, which is " everything " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > we are social cowards!... > > > > > > leaving / giving up our real Self.... > > > > > > intime when we open the mouth > > > > > > and talking worldly non-sense... > > > > > > > > > lol > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > There is no real Self and no false Self. This classification is total bullshit. > > > > Calling the 'real Self' as awareness is the invention of cowards believing in eternal life represented by that 'awareness'. > > > > And you Marc, since I know you, believe in that 'real Self' crap. You simply can't accpet the finality of your existence. > > > > You are a coward avoiding to face your finality ! > > > > Werner > > > > > if i had no idea about awareness and Self....like Werner... > > i would shut my mouth...instead of leaving bullshit in this his little imaginary memorable world... > > ... > > the only possible coward is you, Werner > > ... > > be social to yourself! > > ... > > > > > Marc > Oh my goodness, so much noise just to avoid facing you finality, Marc. Don't misunderstand me, I don't mind you shitting in your pans. That's your own affair and not mine. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 if i had no idea about awareness and Self....like Werner... > > i would shut my mouth...instead of leaving bullshit in this his little imaginary memorable world... > > ... > > the only possible coward is you, Werner > > ... > > be social to yourself! > > ... > > > > > Marc > Oh my goddness, so much noise just to avoid facing you finality, Marc. Don't misunderstand me, I don't mind you shitting in your pans. That's is your own affair and not mine. Werner my finality?..... you have no idea about who and what you are.... except this few concepts and theories you once catched for some great Gurus....means, books... and then you talk about my " finality " ...? lol Werner, finally get out of this your so called " non-dual " cage... be free.. and leave appearent ghost running around in your mind.... .... my mind isn't restless .... so how could i care about this your restless mind....even if i wanted....?... ..... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > There is no such thing and the unknown. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > > > > There is no such thing and the unknown. > > > > > > toombaru " there is no such thing AND the unknown " ....what? the unknown knows it? or.. the unknown doesn't know it.. or.. the unknown both knows and doesn't know it.. or what? just asking. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 > No, no, Tim,> Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. And, this "neuronsal network" itself, just like any other "thing/functioning", *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't!> Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > Werner So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! ~M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > Werner > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > ~M > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > Werner > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > ~M > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. of the Copenhagen interpretation. it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. a key feature of quantum mechanics.. is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. which is a mathematical representation.. used to calculate the probability.. for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. the results of this burgeoning understanding.. disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. and some physicists concluded.. that human observation of a microscopic event.. changes the reality of the event. there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... since it consists of the views developed by.. a number of scientists and philosophers... at the turn of the 20th century. the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... is anything more than an abstraction... or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. or a discernible component of some discrete entity. all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... include at least a formal or methodological version.. of wave function collapse... in which unobserved eigenvalues.. are removed from further consideration. therefore.. in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... is the process by which a wave function.. initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. after interaction with an observer. in simplified terms.. it is the condensation of physical possibilities... into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. as presented by John von Neumann. the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... or just an epiphenomenon of another process... such as quantum decoherence. in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. at any rate.. the math is far more interesting then the story line. but as to any real relevance to reality.. let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. after the scientists have successfully smashed ... or collided proton beams.. at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. here we may finally begin to understand.. the nature of physical reality.. and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. maybe it will light up our world. who knows? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > Werner > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > Kinda like a memory of a memory of a dream mirage. :-) toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > BobN > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:01 PM > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ...by " Infection " It is become Awareness. > > > > -bbb- > > > > > > > > What do you mean? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > i grow old and weary but will here uselessly try and explain: > > > > > > like " feeling " the pulse of a strong electric current.. > > > > > > in the mere act of being located near (in terms of " physical space " ).. > > > > > > a strong electrical source... > > > > > > it is then that a " Force " is known as a " flowing through " .. > > > > > > similar in kind to the sense of flowing waters.. > > > > > > rippling through the " body " > > > > > > and yet never (at the " time " ) does any actual.. > > > > > > " joining " or " contacting " occur. > > > > > > like the transmission of a " disease " without actual " touching " > > > > > > it is by somewhat similar " means " .. > > > > > > that knowledge of Identity as THAT become Recognized. > > > > > > and the two are then ONE. > > > > > > This is a peculiar Understanding. > > > > > > it Arises without " person " . > > > > > > a common mistake made in higher mediation or thought.. > > > > > > is the seeking for a subtle object of Recognition.. > > > > > > i.e: something that could be experienced. > > > > > > This is not the situation nor Condition.. > > > > > > this Adumbration of Divinity.. > > > > > > Aligns with a sense of simply tremendous Authority > > > > > > Life grows darker as we " go on " . > > > > > > till only one " Vestal Light " is left shining. > > > > > > and that is Faith in Certitude. > > > > > > THIS is neither Bliss nor Agony. > > > > > > the closest wording that may be employed regarding It.. > > > > > > (in terms of Quality)..is " Satisfaction " . > > > > > > yet it is High Indifference of an Order beyond human ken. > > > > > > HERE...even Satisfaction is dropped as a sort of need or desire. > > > > > > Old age..like solitude and sorrow..has...Revelation. > > > > > > and aging..age and or " dotage " .. > > > > > > are not one of the beauties of " Creation " .. > > > > > > however...the Case (of aging).. > > > > > > is most definitely one of Initial Conception's " Harmonies " . > > > > > > Jubilation!. > > > > > > i attend now therefore to the words of Madame Anne Sophie Swetchine: > > > > > > " Poor humanity! - so dependent..so insignificant..and yet so great! " > > > > > > Wonderful Wonderful!.. and before all birthrights. > > > > > > IT is THIS. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > No it isn't. > > IT moved since you so eloquently point at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > i do not desire to disagree. > > in particular i do not wish to disagree for disagreement's sake. > > but in truth i must. > > IT is before and beyond all concepts or manifestations of: > > space....time....mass....energy. > > " When you nail a name on 'it " ......it becomes an object. It becomes relevant to the conceptual mind and its pseudo reality. " It " becomes a thing......and there are none. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > > > > > > > > There is no such thing and the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > " there is no such thing AND the unknown " ....what? > > the unknown knows it? > > or.. > > the unknown doesn't know it.. > > or.. > > the unknown both knows and doesn't know it.. > > or what? > > just asking. > > .b b.b. > Can you name a " thing " that is unknown? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:06 AM > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > Monday, November 23, 2009 4:47 PM > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > BobN > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:01 PM > > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...by " Infection " It is become Awareness. > > > > > > > > > > -bbb- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i grow old and weary but will here uselessly try and explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like " feeling " the pulse of a strong electric current.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mere act of being located near (in terms of " physical space " ).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a strong electrical source... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is then that a " Force " is known as a " flowing through " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar in kind to the sense of flowing waters.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rippling through the " body " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yet never (at the " time " ) does any actual.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " joining " or " contacting " occur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like the transmission of a " disease " without actual " touching " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is by somewhat similar " means " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that knowledge of Identity as THAT become Recognized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the two are then ONE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a peculiar Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it Arises without " person " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a common mistake made in higher mediation or thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the seeking for a subtle object of Recognition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e: something that could be experienced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not the situation nor Condition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this Adumbration of Divinity.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aligns with a sense of simply tremendous Authority > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life grows darker as we " go on " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > till only one " Vestal Light " is left shining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is Faith in Certitude. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is neither Bliss nor Agony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the closest wording that may be employed regarding It.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in terms of Quality)..is " Satisfaction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet it is High Indifference of an Order beyond human ken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE...even Satisfaction is dropped as a sort of need or desire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old age..like solitude and sorrow..has...Revelation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and aging..age and or " dotage " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not one of the beauties of " Creation " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however...the Case (of aging).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is most definitely one of Initial Conception's " Harmonies " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jubilation!. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i attend now therefore to the words of Madame Anne Sophie Swetchine: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Poor humanity! - so dependent..so insignificant..and yet so great! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonderful Wonderful!.. and before all birthrights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT is THIS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No it isn't. > > > > > > > > IT moved since you so eloquently point at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is unmovable. How could it....it is immeasurable, non-apparent, the > > > > > > > > very reason of all movement. What moves incessantly is consciousness. > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you imagine that you have access to something outside of > > > > > > > consciousness? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > " Something? " > > > > > > > > > > > > A separate perceiver that has access to a " thing? " > > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomba thinks the ground is some kind of a projection " outside " of himself > > > > > > that is everchanging. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, as he keeps referencing 'you'... " ewe, ewe, ewe " . > > > > > > > > > > As if a " me " weren't required to access a " you " . > > > > > > > > > > As if he imagined he had access to something outside consciousness ('you'). > > > > > > > > > > Pretty amazing, eh? ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > This structure sits in the neuronsal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > Werner > > > > > > werner... > > do you really think you are a social being? > > delusion is the big problem with your.. > > " complex psychologigal(sic) and conditioned structure.. > > composed of past experiences inherited or learned... > > which is stored in memory and in the genes. " > > first of all in your case.. > > there is nothing " complex " . > > see how simple it is. > > .b b.b. > The attempt to " see how simple it is " only adds to the apparent complexity. Your move. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:06 AM > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > Monday, November 23, 2009 4:47 PM > > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > BobN > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...by " Infection " It is become Awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > -bbb- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i grow old and weary but will here uselessly try and explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like " feeling " the pulse of a strong electric current.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mere act of being located near (in terms of " physical space " ).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a strong electrical source... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is then that a " Force " is known as a " flowing through " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar in kind to the sense of flowing waters.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rippling through the " body " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yet never (at the " time " ) does any actual.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " joining " or " contacting " occur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like the transmission of a " disease " without actual " touching " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is by somewhat similar " means " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that knowledge of Identity as THAT become Recognized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the two are then ONE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a peculiar Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it Arises without " person " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a common mistake made in higher mediation or thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the seeking for a subtle object of Recognition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e: something that could be experienced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not the situation nor Condition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this Adumbration of Divinity.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aligns with a sense of simply tremendous Authority > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life grows darker as we " go on " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > till only one " Vestal Light " is left shining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is Faith in Certitude. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is neither Bliss nor Agony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the closest wording that may be employed regarding It.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in terms of Quality)..is " Satisfaction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet it is High Indifference of an Order beyond human ken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE...even Satisfaction is dropped as a sort of need or desire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old age..like solitude and sorrow..has...Revelation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and aging..age and or " dotage " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not one of the beauties of " Creation " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however...the Case (of aging).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is most definitely one of Initial Conception's " Harmonies " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jubilation!. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i attend now therefore to the words of Madame Anne Sophie Swetchine: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Poor humanity! - so dependent..so insignificant..and yet so great! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonderful Wonderful!.. and before all birthrights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT is THIS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No it isn't. > > > > > > > > > IT moved since you so eloquently point at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is unmovable. How could it....it is immeasurable, non-apparent, the > > > > > > > > > very reason of all movement. What moves incessantly is consciousness. > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you imagine that you have access to something outside of > > > > > > > > consciousness? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Something? " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A separate perceiver that has access to a " thing? " > > > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomba thinks the ground is some kind of a projection " outside " of himself > > > > > > > that is everchanging. > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, as he keeps referencing 'you'... " ewe, ewe, ewe " . > > > > > > > > > > > > As if a " me " weren't required to access a " you " . > > > > > > > > > > > > As if he imagined he had access to something outside consciousness ('you'). > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty amazing, eh? ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronsal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > werner... > > > > do you really think you are a social being? > > > > delusion is the big problem with your.. > > > > " complex psychologigal(sic) and conditioned structure.. > > > > composed of past experiences inherited or learned... > > > > which is stored in memory and in the genes. " > > > > first of all in your case.. > > > > there is nothing " complex " . > > > > see how simple it is. > > > > .b b.b. > The attempt to " see how simple it is " only adds to the apparent complexity. > > > > Your move. > > > > > > toombaru > Checkmate! Queen wins. ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The unknown present has nothing to say to the known past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no such thing and the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > " there is no such thing AND the unknown " ....what? > > > > the unknown knows it? > > > > or.. > > > > the unknown doesn't know it.. > > > > or.. > > > > the unknown both knows and doesn't know it.. > > > > or what? > > > > just asking. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > Can you name a " thing " that is unknown? > > > > > toombaru that which is unknown is not a thing. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:06 AM > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > Monday, November 23, 2009 4:47 PM > > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > BobN > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...by " Infection " It is become Awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > -bbb- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i grow old and weary but will here uselessly try and explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like " feeling " the pulse of a strong electric current.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mere act of being located near (in terms of " physical space " ).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a strong electrical source... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is then that a " Force " is known as a " flowing through " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar in kind to the sense of flowing waters.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rippling through the " body " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yet never (at the " time " ) does any actual.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " joining " or " contacting " occur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like the transmission of a " disease " without actual " touching " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is by somewhat similar " means " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that knowledge of Identity as THAT become Recognized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the two are then ONE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a peculiar Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it Arises without " person " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a common mistake made in higher mediation or thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the seeking for a subtle object of Recognition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e: something that could be experienced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not the situation nor Condition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this Adumbration of Divinity.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aligns with a sense of simply tremendous Authority > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life grows darker as we " go on " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > till only one " Vestal Light " is left shining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is Faith in Certitude. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is neither Bliss nor Agony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the closest wording that may be employed regarding It.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in terms of Quality)..is " Satisfaction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet it is High Indifference of an Order beyond human ken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE...even Satisfaction is dropped as a sort of need or desire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old age..like solitude and sorrow..has...Revelation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and aging..age and or " dotage " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not one of the beauties of " Creation " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however...the Case (of aging).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is most definitely one of Initial Conception's " Harmonies " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jubilation!. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i attend now therefore to the words of Madame Anne Sophie Swetchine: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Poor humanity! - so dependent..so insignificant..and yet so great! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonderful Wonderful!.. and before all birthrights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT is THIS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No it isn't. > > > > > > > > > IT moved since you so eloquently point at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is unmovable. How could it....it is immeasurable, non-apparent, the > > > > > > > > > very reason of all movement. What moves incessantly is consciousness. > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you imagine that you have access to something outside of > > > > > > > > consciousness? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Something? " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A separate perceiver that has access to a " thing? " > > > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomba thinks the ground is some kind of a projection " outside " of himself > > > > > > > that is everchanging. > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, as he keeps referencing 'you'... " ewe, ewe, ewe " . > > > > > > > > > > > > As if a " me " weren't required to access a " you " . > > > > > > > > > > > > As if he imagined he had access to something outside consciousness ('you'). > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty amazing, eh? ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronsal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > werner... > > > > do you really think you are a social being? > > > > delusion is the big problem with your.. > > > > " complex psychologigal(sic) and conditioned structure.. > > > > composed of past experiences inherited or learned... > > > > which is stored in memory and in the genes. " > > > > first of all in your case.. > > > > there is nothing " complex " . > > > > see how simple it is. > > > > .b b.b. > The attempt to " see how simple it is " only adds to the apparent complexity. > > > > Your move. > > > > > > toombaru moves or movements are shallow. it is chosen that i won't participate. this is mush more than apparent. it is without choice or definition as that which for me " is " . and this is no game. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:06 AM > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > Monday, November 23, 2009 4:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > BobN > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Re: The Absolute > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...by " Infection " It is become Awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > -bbb- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i grow old and weary but will here uselessly try and explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like " feeling " the pulse of a strong electric current.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mere act of being located near (in terms of " physical space " ).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a strong electrical source... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is then that a " Force " is known as a " flowing through " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar in kind to the sense of flowing waters.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rippling through the " body " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yet never (at the " time " ) does any actual.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " joining " or " contacting " occur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like the transmission of a " disease " without actual " touching " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is by somewhat similar " means " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that knowledge of Identity as THAT become Recognized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the two are then ONE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a peculiar Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it Arises without " person " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a common mistake made in higher mediation or thought.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the seeking for a subtle object of Recognition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e: something that could be experienced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not the situation nor Condition.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this Adumbration of Divinity.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aligns with a sense of simply tremendous Authority > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life grows darker as we " go on " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > till only one " Vestal Light " is left shining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and that is Faith in Certitude. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is neither Bliss nor Agony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the closest wording that may be employed regarding It.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in terms of Quality)..is " Satisfaction " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet it is High Indifference of an Order beyond human ken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE...even Satisfaction is dropped as a sort of need or desire. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old age..like solitude and sorrow..has...Revelation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and aging..age and or " dotage " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are not one of the beauties of " Creation " .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however...the Case (of aging).. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is most definitely one of Initial Conception's " Harmonies " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jubilation!. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i attend now therefore to the words of Madame Anne Sophie Swetchine: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Poor humanity! - so dependent..so insignificant..and yet so great! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonderful Wonderful!.. and before all birthrights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT is THIS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No it isn't. > > > > > > > > > > IT moved since you so eloquently point at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THIS is unmovable. How could it....it is immeasurable, non-apparent, the > > > > > > > > > > very reason of all movement. What moves incessantly is consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you imagine that you have access to something outside of > > > > > > > > > consciousness? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Something? " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A separate perceiver that has access to a " thing? " > > > > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toomba thinks the ground is some kind of a projection " outside " of himself > > > > > > > > that is everchanging. > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, as he keeps referencing 'you'... " ewe, ewe, ewe " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As if a " me " weren't required to access a " you " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As if he imagined he had access to something outside consciousness ('you'). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty amazing, eh? ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what's more amazing? > > > > > > When one self thinks that it knows what another self is thinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Selves can't think. Selves are thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. > > > > > > > > This structure sits in the neuronsal network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > Without this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless and deserted. > > > > > > > > We are social beings and our social capacities, activities and idiosyncracies are summarized in one word: Self. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > werner... > > > > > > do you really think you are a social being? > > > > > > delusion is the big problem with your.. > > > > > > " complex psychologigal(sic) and conditioned structure.. > > > > > > composed of past experiences inherited or learned... > > > > > > which is stored in memory and in the genes. " > > > > > > first of all in your case.. > > > > > > there is nothing " complex " . > > > > > > see how simple it is. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to " see how simple it is " only adds to the apparent complexity. > > > > > > > > Your move. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Checkmate! Queen wins. > > ~A the Queen isn't even in the game. and " checkmate " is a child's concept. as is the " game " of chess. playing it gives feathers of pride to a loser mentality. as if " winning " and " losing " were of critical importance. both are simple delusions of grandeur..one with and one without hope. what a silly game. " hope " is about as useful as " belief " . ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 29, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > > > ~M > > > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. > > > > > actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. > > of the Copenhagen interpretation. > > it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. > > a key feature of quantum mechanics.. > > is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. > > which is a mathematical representation.. > > used to calculate the probability.. > > for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. > > the results of this burgeoning understanding.. > > disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. > > and some physicists concluded.. > > that human observation of a microscopic event.. > > changes the reality of the event. > > there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... > > since it consists of the views developed by.. > > a number of scientists and philosophers... > > at the turn of the 20th century. > > the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... > > is anything more than an abstraction... > > or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. > > or a discernible component of some discrete entity. > > all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... > > include at least a formal or methodological version.. > > of wave function collapse... > > in which unobserved eigenvalues.. > > are removed from further consideration. > > therefore.. > > in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. > > or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... > > is the process by which a wave function.. > > initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... > > appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. > > after interaction with an observer. > > in simplified terms.. > > it is the condensation of physical possibilities... > > into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. > > it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. > > according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. > > as presented by John von Neumann. > > the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. > > whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... > > or just an epiphenomenon of another process... > > such as quantum decoherence. > > in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. > > collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. > > at any rate.. > > the math is far more interesting then the story line. > > but as to any real relevance to reality.. > > let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. > > at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. > > after the scientists have successfully smashed ... > > or collided proton beams.. > > at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. > > here we may finally begin to understand.. > > the nature of physical reality.. > > and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. > > maybe it will light up our world. > > who knows? > > .b b.b. > Very nicely done. It is an impressive ability you have to be able to jaw so much so quickly; but why did you copy large sections from Wikipedia? or did you write the article for them? From what I have gathered you are not so vain as to want to appear as if you can respond to every and all posts. Perhaps you could explain how the " double slit experiment " (see youtube if you need a refreshment of your encyclopedic knowledge) supports the Copenhagen interpretation and not the Multiverse interpretation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 29, 2009 Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > > > > > ~M > > > > > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > > > > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. > > > > > > > > > > actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. > > > > of the Copenhagen interpretation. > > > > it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. > > > > a key feature of quantum mechanics.. > > > > is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. > > > > which is a mathematical representation.. > > > > used to calculate the probability.. > > > > for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. > > > > the results of this burgeoning understanding.. > > > > disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. > > > > and some physicists concluded.. > > > > that human observation of a microscopic event.. > > > > changes the reality of the event. > > > > there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... > > > > since it consists of the views developed by.. > > > > a number of scientists and philosophers... > > > > at the turn of the 20th century. > > > > the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... > > > > is anything more than an abstraction... > > > > or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. > > > > or a discernible component of some discrete entity. > > > > all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... > > > > include at least a formal or methodological version.. > > > > of wave function collapse... > > > > in which unobserved eigenvalues.. > > > > are removed from further consideration. > > > > therefore.. > > > > in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. > > > > or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... > > > > is the process by which a wave function.. > > > > initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... > > > > appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. > > > > after interaction with an observer. > > > > in simplified terms.. > > > > it is the condensation of physical possibilities... > > > > into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. > > > > it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. > > > > according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. > > > > as presented by John von Neumann. > > > > the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. > > > > whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... > > > > or just an epiphenomenon of another process... > > > > such as quantum decoherence. > > > > in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. > > > > collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. > > > > at any rate.. > > > > the math is far more interesting then the story line. > > > > but as to any real relevance to reality.. > > > > let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. > > > > at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. > > > > after the scientists have successfully smashed ... > > > > or collided proton beams.. > > > > at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. > > > > here we may finally begin to understand.. > > > > the nature of physical reality.. > > > > and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. > > > > maybe it will light up our world. > > > > who knows? > > > > .b b.b. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ***********Onward and Upward NOW to Infinity and BEYOND!************** (methusalum): > Very nicely done. It is an impressive ability you have to be able to jaw so much so quickly; but why did you copy large sections from Wikipedia? (.b b.b.): because i felt like it. same reason that you are asking me about it. funny huh? and i'm impressed that you are so impressed with me.. as to do a check up. that's swell! and almost as silly. tell me..what IS without reference? LOL! (methusalum): >or did you write the article for them? (.b b.b.): oh c'mon with you! (methusalum): > From what I have gathered you are not so vain as to want to appear as if you can respond to every and all posts. (.b b.b.) no one knows anyone. " you " don't know " me " .. and " i " don't know " you " . nor do " i " want to. let " us " just keep it that way. it may be assumed that it's just a fallout from.. one of many and more possible eigenstates. is that more pleasing to you? does it leave less " personal " umbrage taken? are you serious? p.s. as the unimaginably impossible " personal " dude (.b b.b.).. let " me " assure you..(how goddamn vain is that?! ha-ha).. you wouldn't believe how vain i am. that's kind of the nature of the phantom being. that " you " feel somehow that " you " are different.. especially after the initial wordy display.. posted by " you " that started this tete a tete.. only shows how really vain " you " are. " you " 're so vain as to try and deny the vanity which is all men. (methusalum): > Perhaps you could explain how the " double slit experiment " (see youtube if you need a refreshment of your encyclopedic knowledge) supports the Copenhagen interpretation and not the Multiverse interpretation? (.b b.b.): not impressed guy. and youtube is not needed. that was discussed in grade eleven physics.. (in my case in 1962)... and the noted experiment was done considerably longer ago than that... now let's see..sometimes a " wave " and sometimes a " particle " .. gee wilikers!..or is that " whilikers " ? (i'm sure a smart fella like you is in the know on this one.) that acknowledged..what's what anyhoo.. now and heretofore and hereafter???? what's going on?? what is this " thing " called reality? like Ghostbusters man! in more ways then one even though there is only ONE WAY. [smile] and John Wheeler aside.. the " Many Worlds " theory is good for science fiction.. that's about all. i take it then that you are a Star Trek fan.. or are you more of a Star Wars kinda dude? LOL! relax methusalum.. " you " take all this much too personally and seriously. it's not all about " you " s and " me " s and what we do or do not know. there's nothing to know and in actuality.. no " knower " per se. don't allow that illusion to become so defensive and smarmy. i just want to have fun. you evidently want to display to nonexistent " others " .. how much you think you know. that's silly. what's it going to accomplish for you but maybe reciprocal derision? now just give us all a smile. isn't that much better? sure it is! so now it is we can be pals. neither one of us need be participants in a drab affair. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > > > ~M > > > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. > > > > > actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. > > of the Copenhagen interpretation. > > it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. > > a key feature of quantum mechanics.. > > is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. > > which is a mathematical representation.. > > used to calculate the probability.. > > for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. > > the results of this burgeoning understanding.. > > disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. > > and some physicists concluded.. > > that human observation of a microscopic event.. > > changes the reality of the event. > > there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... > > since it consists of the views developed by.. > > a number of scientists and philosophers... > > at the turn of the 20th century. > > the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... > > is anything more than an abstraction... > > or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. > > or a discernible component of some discrete entity. > > all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... > > include at least a formal or methodological version.. > > of wave function collapse... > > in which unobserved eigenvalues.. > > are removed from further consideration. > > therefore.. > > in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. > > or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... > > is the process by which a wave function.. > > initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... > > appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. > > after interaction with an observer. > > in simplified terms.. > > it is the condensation of physical possibilities... > > into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. > > it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. > > according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. > > as presented by John von Neumann. > > the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. > > whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... > > or just an epiphenomenon of another process... > > such as quantum decoherence. > > in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. > > collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. > > at any rate.. > > the math is far more interesting then the story line. > > but as to any real relevance to reality.. > > let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. > > at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. > > after the scientists have successfully smashed ... > > or collided proton beams.. > > at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. > > here we may finally begin to understand.. > > the nature of physical reality.. > > and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. > > maybe it will light up our world. > > who knows? Re the CERN experiment - there is this Danish physicist Holger Bech Nielsen (superstring theory I think is his baby), who has - de facto, believe it or not - said on tv that the experiment may never become a succes because *IT* does not want to be dis covered tee hee - he also said, there just may be a God out there ... who does not want to be revealed ... hee hee ... but when asked what is the evidence of such a god - he said: it is next to none, such creature is very un-likely - but who knows? -Lene > > .b b.b. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 One more - Bob, you forgot to mention David Bohm and his theory that electrones do not behave like waves, only like particles Oh, well; it is not easy to cover the whole field once the game of its unfolding into billions of fragments have begun, is it? The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget his own presence in the general panic of the search for himself. It is pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. Good bye and bye and bye and ... -Lene Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > > > ~M > > > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. > > > > > actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. > > of the Copenhagen interpretation. > > it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. > > a key feature of quantum mechanics.. > > is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. > > which is a mathematical representation.. > > used to calculate the probability.. > > for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. > > the results of this burgeoning understanding.. > > disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. > > and some physicists concluded.. > > that human observation of a microscopic event.. > > changes the reality of the event. > > there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... > > since it consists of the views developed by.. > > a number of scientists and philosophers... > > at the turn of the 20th century. > > the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... > > is anything more than an abstraction... > > or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. > > or a discernible component of some discrete entity. > > all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... > > include at least a formal or methodological version.. > > of wave function collapse... > > in which unobserved eigenvalues.. > > are removed from further consideration. > > therefore.. > > in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. > > or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... > > is the process by which a wave function.. > > initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... > > appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. > > after interaction with an observer. > > in simplified terms.. > > it is the condensation of physical possibilities... > > into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. > > it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. > > according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. > > as presented by John von Neumann. > > the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. > > whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... > > or just an epiphenomenon of another process... > > such as quantum decoherence. > > in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. > > collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. > > at any rate.. > > the math is far more interesting then the story line. > > but as to any real relevance to reality.. > > let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. > > at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. > > after the scientists have successfully smashed ... > > or collided proton beams.. > > at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. > > here we may finally begin to understand.. > > the nature of physical reality.. > > and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. > > maybe it will light up our world. > > who knows? > > .b b.b. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 The funny thing is that the observer always seems to forget hisown presence in the general panic of the search for himself. Itis pretty amusing, and the muses are having a good time indeed. -Lene The presence of an observer that forgets about itself? Who is looking for himself but thought? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, no, Tim, > > > > > > > > > Self is just a word to denote this complex psychologigal and conditioned structure composed of past experiences inherited or learned which is stored in memory and in the genes. This structure sits in the neuronsal > network and is also producing verbal thoughts to eventually get communicated - that's why they are verbal. > > > > > > > > And, this " neuronsal network " itself, just like any other " thing/functioning " , *is* only when seen from a particular distance between the physical observer and the observed. If you get up to it 100%, *it* and the *observer* both aren't! > > > > > > > > > Withought this 'self' you couldn't post here but rather would be locked off in a mental asylum - helpless. > > > > > > > > Seems to me that this is where we alread are! :-)) > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > So, the self is more than a collection of particular images, it's a functioning. Kinda like a habit married to an image. > > > > > > > > Oh, by the way, did you ever figure out what a neuron is? > > > > > > > > No need to reply. Your silence is much more welcomed! > > > > > > > > ~M > > > > > > > there is some interesting research in quantum mechanics which has been termed " Wave function collapse " . this seems to suggest that the fundamental building blocks of stuff does not exist until it is observed. prior to being observed it seems to be a field of probability. only when observed does the field collapse into a solid point. > > > > > > it is also worth pointing out that light itself seems to possess the powers of an observer. > > > > > > > > > > actually that's just one conclusion drawn from the confines.. > > > > of the Copenhagen interpretation. > > > > it is merely a singular interpretation of quantum mechanics. > > > > a key feature of quantum mechanics.. > > > > is that the state of every particle is described by a wave-function. > > > > which is a mathematical representation.. > > > > used to calculate the probability.. > > > > for it to be found in a location or a state of motion. > > > > the results of this burgeoning understanding.. > > > > disoriented developers of the theory Bohr and Heisenberg.. > > > > and some physicists concluded.. > > > > that human observation of a microscopic event.. > > > > changes the reality of the event. > > > > there is no definitive statement of the Copenhagen Interpretation... > > > > since it consists of the views developed by.. > > > > a number of scientists and philosophers... > > > > at the turn of the 20th century. > > > > the Copenhagen Interpretation denies that any wave function... > > > > is anything more than an abstraction... > > > > or is at least non-committal about its being a discrete entity.. > > > > or a discernible component of some discrete entity. > > > > all versions of the Copenhagen interpretation... > > > > include at least a formal or methodological version.. > > > > of wave function collapse... > > > > in which unobserved eigenvalues.. > > > > are removed from further consideration. > > > > therefore.. > > > > in quantum mechanics..wave function collapse.. > > > > or: collapse of the state vector or reduction of the wave packet... > > > > is the process by which a wave function.. > > > > initially in a superposition of different eigenstates... > > > > appears to reduce to a single one of the states.. > > > > after interaction with an observer. > > > > in simplified terms.. > > > > it is the condensation of physical possibilities... > > > > into a single occurrence..as seen by an observer. > > > > it is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time.. > > > > according to the laws of quantum mechanics.. > > > > as presented by John von Neumann. > > > > the reality of wave function collapse has always been debated.. > > > > whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right... > > > > or just an epiphenomenon of another process... > > > > such as quantum decoherence. > > > > in recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity. > > > > collapse may be understood as a change in conditional probabilities. > > > > at any rate.. > > > > the math is far more interesting then the story line. > > > > but as to any real relevance to reality.. > > > > let's wait and see the results to be obtained in Switzerland.. > > > > at Cern with the now functioning LHC (Large Hadron Collider).. > > > > after the scientists have successfully smashed ... > > > > or collided proton beams.. > > > > at an energy of seven trillion electron volts. > > > > here we may finally begin to understand.. > > > > the nature of physical reality.. > > > > and the " state of affairs " at the first nanosecond after the Big Bang. > > > > maybe it will light up our world. > > > > who knows? > > > > Re the CERN experiment - there is this Danish physicist Holger > Bech Nielsen (superstring theory I think is his baby), who has > - de facto, believe it or not - said on tv that the experiment > may never become a succes because *IT* does not want to be dis > covered tee hee - he also said, there just may be a God out > there ... who does not want to be revealed ... hee hee ... but > when asked what is the evidence of such a god - he said: it is > next to none, such creature is very un-likely - but who knows? > > > > -Lene LOL! and he said this on T.V.? would that THAT little device had never been invented. or maybe it hasn't? mayhap it's part of some Conspiracy Theory.. as yet to be discovered because " it " doesn't want to be... and that it is just part of some strange mass illusion... not a Mass that celebrates the " Nazarene " .. nor the mass converted to energy in a massive cyclotron.. rather the mass found in the assemblage point.. which God doesn't want us to ever know anything about. why on earth do these kind of folks work in physics? i mean..he seems like a superstring himself. in a strange loop sort of way. and it appears VERY likely that he's tying himself up. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
