Remembering the Lord at the time of death

[mahak 0]

hey yall, ya missed my best line ever on these forums, "remember the Lord at the time of LIFE."

[theist 1]

 

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO REMEMBER ANYTHING at the time of death.The pain is unbearable.

 

This raises an interesting question. Just what exactly is painful about death? The process that causes death, like diease, gunshot, traffic accident etc., may be may be painful. Also the attahments we hold in our mind may cause us pain as they are being ripped away but what could be painful about the actual separation of the subtle body from the gross body? This is an occurence that we all have nightly according to most metaphysians. Many can astral project at will and there is never any report of pain.

[ranjeetmore 0]

 

This raises an interesting question. Just what exactly is painful about death? The process that causes death, like diease, gunshot, traffic accident etc., may be may be painful. Also the attahments we hold in our mind may cause us pain as they are being ripped away but what could be painful about the actual separation of the subtle body from the gross body? This is an occurence that we all have nightly according to most metaphysians. Many can astral project at will and there is never any report of pain.

 

 

 

the astral travel is willed-subconsciously or consciously.

 

during death,YOu KNOW it's the last time...the last moment...besides,it is mentioned that when the Yamadutas forcefully separate the subtle body,the mind experiences immense pain.

Due to this pain,the gross body is fully unconscious and the mind blanks out....

[theist 1]

 

the astral travel is willed-subconsciously or consciously.

 

during death,YOu KNOW it's the last time...the last moment...besides,it is mentioned that when the Yamadutas forcefully separate the subtle body,the mind experiences immense pain.

Due to this pain,the gross body is fully unconscious and the mind blanks out....

 

So you are saying the pain is mental. Then that must be due to attachments as I said. The mind has no gross nervous system so what do these Yamadhutas do to create this pain?

 

I don't believe it. I don't accept that version of the time of death. Heavenly or hellish. I accept that the departing souls are ushered in to the subtle atmosphere in a much gentler fashion then described in the Bhagavatam.

 

The Yamadhuta story is a simplified version of the actual happenings IMO. A version for children actually.

 

What do you mean this pain makes the body unconscious? The gross body becomes totally unconscious simply because the consciousness (atma) has left for good taking all vital force with it. What else could the body then be but unconscious? It has nothing to do with pain.

 

Personally I don't fear death in the least. I fear rebirth a great deal. I also fear the horrible ways I may be forced to undergo death but having the gross body off my back sounds like it would be a great relief and frankly I look forward to it.

Edited August 4, 2009 by theist

[ranjeetmore 0]

^ lol...whatever the bhagavatam says is true cent percent...if the yamduta version wasn't the real one,it would've said so...

 

to each his own i guess...

 

like mahakji said,"Remember the Lord at the time of your life."-marvellous.Sums up the Bhagavatam/Geeta/Visnu purana meassage in one line.

[bhaktajan 0]

I want to correct what Mahak said:

 

"remember the Lord at the time of LIFE."

 

IOW

 

"So, dont chant at the time of death, chant at the time of LIFE"

[bhaktajan 0]

Remembering The Lord at death does take 'conscious practice' ---my only issue of "personal faith" is that I have 'the faith' that God will allot to me the time [and hopefully the place] to make proper contrition.

 

Sri Isopanishad Mantra 17-18:

 

Let this temporary body be burnt to ashes, and let the air of life be merged with the totality of air. Now, O my Lord, please remember all my sacrifices, and because You are the ultimate beneficiary, please remember all that I have done for You.

 

O my Lord, as powerful as fire, O omnipotent one, now I offer You all obeisances, falling on the ground at Your feet. O my Lord, please lead me on the right path to reach You, and since You know all that I have done in the past, please free me from the reactions to my past sins so that there will be no hindrance to my progress.

 

****************************************

 

So that is what mahak's statement is so important:

 

"remember the Lord at the time of LIFE."

IOW

 

"So, dont chant at the time of death, chant at the time of LIFE"

[primate 0]

 

“Take heed of the Living One while you are alive, lest you die and seek to see Him, and be unable to do so.”- Jesus, Gospel of Thomas

 

“All who dwell on earth may find you” - Jewish Prayer Book

 

“True knowledge can only be attained by a human being.” - Krishna

 

“Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave” - Muhammad

 

“The sage who is intent on yoga comes to Brahman without long delay” -Bhagavad-gita

 

“Search with sincerity and in the end you will find the truth.” -Buddha

 

“If thou seekest hidden treasures, thou shall find the knowledge of God” -Bible, Proverbs

 

http://theharmonyinstitute.org/ten/ten.pdf

 

[iloveamma 0]

 

Actually a person who has even a sattvic mind-even he cannot remember the lord at the time of death.

 

 

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO REMEMBER ANYTHING at the time of death.The pain is unbearable.

 

This is interesting indeed.

I am still not understanding WHAT is painful about it?

First you said that there is mental pain, then you said that the mind goes blank..I am not at all trying to argue, simply to understand what EXACTLY IS happening at the moment of death and WHY is it SO difficult to remember God in that moment?

 

I know for myself, someone who has spent a great deal of life in physical pain, that remembering God when I am in pain can sometimes be difficult...however, at some points, it is quite easy because the pain can be SO great, that you cry out for help to God.

 

So why is it so difficult? If the mind is going blank, I assume that would be a good thing, since that is what we try to do everyday when we meditate..is make our minds blank!

 

Is it the attachments and the UNFUFILLED DESIRES that make it painful at the moment of death? I know that leaving your body through astral projection is not painful, as someone said earlier. Therefore, WHY IS IT HARD TO REMEMBER GOD??

 

Would love to know why if anyone knows!!

[theist 1]

 

Is it the attachments and the UNFUFILLED DESIRES that make it painful at the moment of death? I know that leaving your body through astral projection is not painful, as someone said earlier.

Exactly my point which was never answered. It is the knowledge that our attachments to what we think is ours (family property ect.) and unfullfilled desires and plans for the future that will never be realized that causes us the pain.

 

It is painful enough for those of us that have at least some philosophical realization that we are not the body what to speak of the person who thinks the body is the self and he is losing all chance to ever experience happiness.

 

And this brings up an even more subtle point. The fear of death itself has as it's basis the fact that the soul is eternal and senses it and thus the idea of death, of non-existence causes great fear and bewilderment beyond his worldly attachments. The idea of life itself is so natural to the soul and idea of death so unnatural.

 

This plus the process that causes death as in cancer or car wreck etc. are all that is painful about death not the actual separation of the astral body from the physical body. Just like it is not painful to take off one's coat when one is inside and no longer

needs it. No difference.

 

 

 

Therefore, WHY IS IT HARD TO REMEMBER GOD??

 

Would love to know why if anyone knows!!

Simple. It is because we don't want to remember God.We simply still want material things.

 

Right now we are talking and reading about God but our minds are only a certain small percentage upon the Lord even as we are so-called engaged in remembering Him.

 

We are practicing remembering God. Really remembering God means being FIXED upon Him. Samadhi. Samadhi in bhakti can be samadhi in motion like doing service purely for Krishna's pleasure. If Arjuna would have suddenly been struck by an arrow and left his body in an instant while taking aim at a target and not looking at Krishna or directly even thinking of Him he still would have had a perfect death because he was purely engaged in doing his service to Krishna which is itself remembering Krishna.

 

The word 'remember' is interesting. We are members of Krishna but have apparently dismembered ourselves to try to enjoy maya. For the jiva to remember one's self in connection with Krishna means to remember one's position as a servant of Krishna.

 

So the word remembering is another way of saying yoga or being re-yoked to Him.

 

So if we are smart we will try our best to live a life that leads to remembering Krishna at the time of death. But also it may be a good idea to be little greedy and ask for more than we deserve.

 

We don't deserve to remember krishna at the time of death but let us beg for it anyway. Not on the basis of deserving it but on the basis of His mercy alone.

Edited August 7, 2009 by theist

[bhaktajan 0]

I raised the issue of Pain ---I knew at the time of the early post that I was referring to Pain as a result of the Yamadhuta stealing away the sinfull soul destined to meet Yama-Raja.

 

Yet, Now I've checked-out Bhagavatam . . . and there is the mention of common attached householders who consider the obligations to care for the living kin componded with infirmity and unfullfilled desires.

Anyway the pain I spoke of is mentioned somewhere in regards to the Yamadhutas pulling the soul loose.

 

Here's some sastra:

 

 

 

 

SB 3.30.14

 

The foolish family man does not become averse to family life although he is maintained by those whom he once maintained. Deformed by the influence of old age, he prepares himself to meet ultimate death.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

Family attraction is so strong that even if one is neglected by family members in his old age, he cannot give up family affection, and he remains at home just like a dog. In the Vedic way of life one has to give up family life when he is strong enough. It is advised that before getting too weak and being baffled in material activities, and before becoming diseased, one should give up family life and engage oneself completely in the service of the Lord for the remaining days of his life. It is enjoined, therefore, in the Vedic scriptures, that as soon as one passes fifty years of age, he must give up family life and live alone in the forest. After preparing himself fully, he should become a sannyäsé to distribute the knowledge of spiritual life to each and every home.

 

 

 

SB 3.30.15

 

Thus he remains at home just like a pet dog and eats whatever is so negligently given to him. Afflicted with many illnesses, such as dyspepsia and loss of appetite, he eats only very small morsels of food, and he becomes an invalid, who cannot work any more.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

Before meeting death one is sure to become a diseased invalid, and when he is neglected by his family members, his life becomes less than a dog’s because he is put into so many miserable conditions. Vedic literatures enjoin, therefore, that before the arrival of such miserable conditions, one should leave home and die without the knowledge of his family members. If a man leaves home and dies without his family’s knowing, that is considered to be a glorious death. But an attached family man wants his family members to carry him in a great procession even after his death, and although he will not be able to see how the procession goes, he still desires that his body be taken gorgeously in procession. Thus he is happy without even knowing where he has to go when he leaves his body for the next life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

SB 3.30.16

 

In that diseased condition, one’s eyes bulge due to the pressure of air from within, and his glands become congested with mucus. He has difficulty breathing, and upon exhaling and inhaling he produces a sound like ghura-ghura, a rattling within the throat.

 

 

 

SB 3.30.17

 

In this way he comes under the clutches of death and lies down, surrounded by lamenting friends and relatives, and although he wants to speak with them, he no longer can because he is under the control of time.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

For formality’s sake, when a man is lying on his deathbed, his relatives come to him, and sometimes they cry very loudly, addressing the dying man: “Oh, my father!” “Oh, my friend!” or “Oh, my husband!” In that pitiable condition the dying man wants to speak with them and instruct them of his desires, but because he is fully under the control of the time factor, death, he cannot express himself, and that causes him inconceivable pain. He is already in a painful condition because of disease, and his glands and throat are choked up with mucus. He is already in a very difficult position, and when he is addressed by his relatives in that way, his grief increases.

 

 

 

SB 3.30.18

 

Thus the man, who engaged with uncontrolled senses in maintaining a family, dies in great grief, seeing his relatives crying. He dies most pathetically, in great pain and without consciousness.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

In Bhagavad-gétä it is said that at the time of death one will be absorbed in the thoughts which he cultivated during his lifetime. A person who had no other idea than to properly maintain his family members must have family affairs in his last thoughts. That is the natural sequence for a common man. The common man does not know the destiny of his life; he is simply busy in his flash of life, maintaining his family. At the last stage, no one is satisfied with how he has improved the family economic condition; everyone thinks that he could not provide sufficiently. Because of his deep family affection, he forgets his main duty of controlling the senses and improving his spiritual consciousness. Sometimes a dying man entrusts the family affairs to either his son or some relative, saying, “I am going. Please look after the family.” He does not know where he is going, but even at the time of death he is anxious about how his family will be maintained. Sometimes it is seen that a dying man requests the physician to increase his life at least for a few years so that the family maintenance plan which he has begun can be completed. These are the material diseases of the conditioned soul. He completely forgets his real engagement—to become Kåñëa conscious—and is always serious about planning to maintain his family, although he changes families one after another.

 

 

 

SB 3.30.19

 

At death, he sees the messengers of the lord of death come before him, their eyes full of wrath, and in great fear he passes stool and urine.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

There are two kinds of transmigration of a living entity after passing away from the present body. One kind of transmigration is to go to the controller of sinful activities, who is known as Yamaräja, and the other is to go to the higher planets, up to Vaikuëöha. Here Lord Kapila describes how persons engaged in activities of sense gratification to maintain a family are treated by the messengers of Yamaräja, called Yamadütas. At the time of death the Yamadütas become the custodians of those persons who have strongly gratified their senses. They take charge of the dying man and take him to the planet where Yamaräja resides. The conditions there are described in the following verses.

 

 

 

SB 3.30.20

 

As a criminal is arrested for punishment by the constables of the state, a person engaged in criminal sense gratification is similarly arrested by the Yamadütas, who bind him by the neck with strong rope and cover his subtle body so that he may undergo severe punishment.

 

 

 

SB 4.25.53

 

Another gate on the western side was known as Niråti. Puraïjana used to go through this gate to the place known as Vaiçasa, accompanied by his friend Lubdhaka.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

This is a reference to the rectum. The rectum is supposed to be situated on the western side of the eyes, nose and ears. This gate is especially meant for death. When an ordinary living entity abandons his present body, he passes through the rectum. It is therefore painful. When one is called by nature to evacuate, one also experiences pain. The friend of the living entity who accompanies him through this gate is named Lubdhaka, which means “greed.” Due to our greed, we eat unnecessarily, and such gluttony causes pain at the time of evacuation. The conclusion is that the living entity feels well if he evacuates properly. This gate is known as Niråti, or the painful gate.

 

 

 

SB 6.10.3

 

O elevated demigods, at the time of death, severe, unbearable pain takes away the consciousness of all living entities who have accepted material bodies. Don’t you know about this pain?

[bhaktajan 0]

SB 12.4.15-19

The element fire then seizes the taste from the element water, which, deprived of its unique quality, taste, merges into fire. Air seizes the form inherent in fire, and then fire, deprived of form, merges into air.

 

The element ether seizes the quality of air, namely touch, and that air enters into ether.

 

Then, O King, false ego in ignorance seizes sound, the quality of ether, after which ether merges into false ego. False ego in the mode of passion takes hold of the senses, and false ego in the mode of goodness absorbs the demigods.

 

Then the total mahat-tattva seizes false ego along with its various functions, and that mahat is seized by the three basic modes of nature—goodness, passion and ignorance.

 

My dear King Parékñit, these modes are further overtaken by the original unmanifest form of nature, impelled by time.

 

That unmanifest nature is not subject to the six kinds of transformation caused by the influence of time.

 

Rather, it has no beginning and no end. It is the unmanifest, eternal and infallible cause of creation.

SB 12.4.28

Anything experienced in terms of general cause and specific effect must be an illusion, because such causes and effects exist only relative to each other. Indeed, whatever has a beginning and an end is unreal.

SB 12.4.34

My dear Parékñit, when the illusory false ego that binds the soul has been cut off with the sword of discriminating knowledge and one has developed realization of Lord Acyuta, the Supreme Soul, this is called the ätyantika, or ultimate, annihilation of material existence.

SB 12.6.30-31

But there exists a supreme reality, in which the illusory energy cannot fearlessly dominate, thinking, “I can control this person because he is deceitful.” In that highest reality there are no illusory argumentative philosophies.

 

Rather, there the true students of spiritual science constantly engage in authorized spiritual investigation. In that supreme reality there is no manifestation of the material mind, which functions in terms of alternating decision and doubt.

 

Created material products, their subtle causes and the goals of enjoyment attained by their utilization do not exist there. Furthermore, in that supreme reality there is no conditioned spirit, covered by false ego and the three modes of nature.

 

That reality excludes everything limited or limiting. One who is wise should therefore stop the waves of material life and enjoy within that Supreme Truth.

SB 12.6.32

Those who desire to give up all that is not essentially real move systematically, by negative discrimination of the extraneous, to the supreme position of Lord Viñëu.

 

Giving up petty materialism, they offer their love exclusively to the Absolute Truth within their hearts and embrace that highest truth in fixed meditation.

[sant 0]

 

This is interesting indeed.

I am still not understanding WHAT is painful about it?

First you said that there is mental pain, then you said that the mind goes blank..I am not at all trying to argue, simply to understand what EXACTLY IS happening at the moment of death and WHY is it SO difficult to remember God in that moment?

 

I know for myself, someone who has spent a great deal of life in physical pain, that remembering God when I am in pain can sometimes be difficult...however, at some points, it is quite easy because the pain can be SO great, that you cry out for help to God.

 

So why is it so difficult? If the mind is going blank, I assume that would be a good thing, since that is what we try to do everyday when we meditate..is make our minds blank!

 

Is it the attachments and the UNFUFILLED DESIRES that make it painful at the moment of death? I know that leaving your body through astral projection is not painful, as someone said earlier. Therefore, WHY IS IT HARD TO REMEMBER GOD??

 

Would love to know why if anyone knows!!

Remebering god means going to him.So until and unless gods grace comes you wont remember him.

thiest sir has said it that it is not a technical process but personal .

 

 

Maharaj says that whatever sadhana etc you do you can only conquer beyond the three tatvas but you go further with gods grace.

.

[dasa 0]

 ãîñòÿõ ó Îäæàñâè. Âñå ïðî Õàðå Êðèøíà.

 

Ðàäõà Êðèøíà

 

 

 

 

 

Êðèøíà.

 

[theist 1]