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Brahman – The absolute God of Hindus ? Confused?

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The following text is what I have had read from a website, but I am confused and do not understand who Brahman is, and how is he the greatest Hindu deity? And how is Brahma the higher than Vishnu and Siva?

 

Brahman – The absolute God of Hindus <o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

“Brahman is the highest and most supreme divinity of the Hindus. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Brahma is the source, the seed and the creator of all beings in this world. He has many other names Hiranyagarbha … followers of Vaishnavism depict him as nabhija or the one who was born from the lotus flower that sprung from the navel of Vishnu. This is however a post-vedic development. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Brahma originated from Brahman, or rather Brahman became Brahma, just as he became Vishnu and Siva.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Brahman is the central theme of almost all the Upanishads.<o:p></o:p>

Brahman is the indescribable, inexhaustible, omniscient,<o:p></o:p>

omnipresent, original, first, eternal and absolute principle who is<o:p></o:p>

without a beginning, without an end , who is hidden in all and who<o:p></o:p>

is the cause, source, material and effect of all creation known,<o:p></o:p>

unknown and yet to happen in the entire universe.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

He is not like the other gods either. He is incomprehensible even<o:p></o:p>

to almost all the gods. And He chooses not to be worshipped in the<o:p></o:p>

temples and other places of worship but in one's heart and mind<o:p></o:p>

as the indweller of the material body and master of the senses,<o:p></o:p>

the charioteer. He is too remote and incomprehensible to be<o:p></o:p>

revered and approached with personal supplications although He is<o:p></o:p>

the deepest and the highest vision mankind could ever conceive of<o:p></o:p>

or attain.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Perhaps the exclusion was so evident and seemingly so intentional<o:p></o:p>

that even Lord Brahma, the first among the Trinity and the first<o:p></o:p>

among the created, was also simultaneously excluded from the<o:p></o:p>

ritualistic worship, probably for the similarity in names.”<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

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Thanks, but the link states that Brahman created Brahma, Vishnu and Siva, how is that? Also what is post-vedic development? And who is Brahman, Is it not a type of state and then why is it being given the status of the supreme lord?

 

As it states:

 

Brahman gives rise to the primordial being Hiranyagarbha that is equated with the creator God Brahmā. The trimurti can thus be considered a personification of Hiranyagarbha as the active principle behind the phenomena of the universe.

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Brahman (bráhman-) is a concept of Hinduism. Brahman is the unchanging, infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality"] which is the Divine Ground of all matter, energy, time, space, being, and everything beyond in this Universe.

The entire Upanishads are devoted to examining the question of understanding Brahman.

 

The article is quite exhaustive. All the Sages have spent a life time trying to understand Brahman.

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brahma-nirvāṇam — the spiritual kingdom of God; BG 2.72

brahma — from the Vedas; BG 3.15

brahma — the Vedas; BG 3.15

brahma — transcendence; BG 3.15

brahma — spiritual in nature; BG 4.24

brahma — the Supreme; BG 4.24

brahma — spiritual; BG 4.24

brahma — spiritual kingdom; BG 4.24

brahma — spiritual; BG 4.24

brahma — of the Absolute Truth; BG 4.25

brahma — the supreme; BG 4.30

brahma — the Supreme; BG 5.6

brahma — like the Supreme; BG 5.19

brahma-vit — one who knows the Supreme perfectly; BG 5.20

brahma-yoga — by concentration in Brahman; BG 5.21

brahma-nirvāṇam — liberation in the Supreme; BG 5.24

brahma-bhūtaḥ — being self-realized; BG 5.24

brahma-nirvāṇam — liberation in the Supreme; BG 5.25

brahma-nirvāṇam — liberation in the Supreme; BG 5.26

brahma-bhūtam — liberation by identification with the Absolute; BG 6.27

brahma-saṃsparśam — being in constant touch with the Supreme; BG 6.28

śabda-brahma — ritualistic principles of scriptures; BG 6.44

brahma — Brahman; BG 7.29

brahma — Brahman; BG 8.1

brahma — Brahman; BG 8.3

brahma — absolute; BG 8.13

ā-brahma-bhuvanāt — up to the Brahmaloka planet; BG 8.16

brahma — to the Absolute; BG 8.24

brahma-vidaḥ — who know the Absolute; BG 8.24

brahma — truth; BG 10.12-13

brahma-sūtra — of the Vedānta; BG 13.5

brahma — spirit; BG 13.13

brahma — the Absolute; BG 13.31

brahma — supreme; BG 14.3

brahma — the supreme; BG 14.4

brahma-bhūyāya — elevated to the Brahman platform; BG 14.26

brahma-vādinām — of the transcendentalists; BG 17.24

brahma — of a brāhmaṇa; BG 18.42

brahma — the Supreme; BG 18.50

brahma-bhūyāya — for self-realization; BG 18.51-53

brahma-bhūtaḥ — being one with the Absolute; BG 18.54

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Thanks, but the link states that Brahman created Brahma, Vishnu and Siva, how is that? Also what is post-vedic development? And who is Brahman, Is it not a type of state and then why is it being given the status of the supreme lord?

 

As it states:

 

Brahman gives rise to the primordial being Hiranyagarbha that is equated with the creator God Brahmā. The trimurti can thus be considered a personification of Hiranyagarbha as the active principle behind the phenomena of the universe.

It’s really quite simple. :) Brahman is the impersonal 'all of reality'. And Brahma is Brahmans’ personal energy or consciousness. As such, Brahma is simultaneously a part of Brahman and one with Brahman. Krishna is Brahma. Humans are merely like Krishna. But like Him we are simultaneously one with Brahman..

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The entire Upanishads are devoted to examining the question of understanding Brahman.

 

The article is quite exhaustive. All the Sages have spent a life time trying to understand Brahman.

 

Yea, but now we have internet forums. It's easier like this.

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Brahm is Sri Krsna.

Tulsidas Calls Him Raghavendra.

 

Tulsidasa says,"Even Brahma Visnu MAhesa are unable to understand you,Oh Rama !"

There is no truth higher than this because Sri Krsna alone is the advaya Jnaana Tattva,for He alone displays

 

Svagat(Svarupa shakti Vishisht Brahm= Nrsimha,Varaha,Sankarsana,etc.) bheda shunya

sajatiya (Jeeva Shakti vishisht brahm = us) bheda shunya

vijatiya (Maya Shakti vishisht brahm = sum total of universes) bheda shunya.

 

For this reason,all the learned transcendentalists accept Sri KRsna as that Para Brahm.

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You mentioned Brahm as 'the master of the senses',the "Indweller","One who is to be worshipped with one's mind and heart ."

 

Sri Krsna Is Hrishikesa- Master of all the senses.

He is Paramatma - the indweller

(Bhagavad Gita)

He is to be worshipped with the mind and heart - "Yena kena Prakarena Manah Krsna Niveshayet."

"Shudhayati naa antaraatma Krsna Padambhoj bhaktimriteh"- Sri Shankaracharya.

 

This Sri HAri is the brahm who manifests in an eternal Body as well as the formless Brahm.He is the one who can run without legs.Eat,think and smell with His ears.

This is the definition of brahm in the vedas right ?

Yes,This Sri Krsna is the same One.

 

Brahm has three energies: Svarupa,Maya and Jeeva.

Visnu purana states that Sri Visnu is the controller of these energies.

Sri Krsna states in the geeta,"Arjuna I have One divine energy - jeevatma and this jada energy- maya."

 

Parashara Muni gives the definition of Bhagavan.Sri Vedavyasa,Sri Narada,Sri Shankaracharya,all these great mahatmas accept Sri Krsna as Bhagavan.

 

This brahm is beyond the reach of Brahma and even MAhesvara.Only if He wishes,He can be known by them.

Anyone can know Him.Only if He bestows His mercy.Svetasvaara muni declares that "he knows this BRahm.Even you can know Him by His mercy."

 

Arjuna states in the geeta,"By YOUR MERCY,Acyuta,I came to know You."

Tulsidasa states that,"Oh Rama ! by your mercy ANYONE can come to know you.You make no distinction."

 

Hell,even an elephant came to know Him(Gajendra).

 

***

The vedas state,"Kartumakartum anyatha kartum samarth."

 

Brahm can perform impossible feats.

 

One of the veda mantras state His qualities as "Satykaamah Satya sankalpa".

Sri Krsna possesses Satya Kaamah satya sankalpah.With these energies,doe He manifest the infinitude of universes from a mere pore of His divine body.He merely wishes and it happens.This He does as Sri Mahavishnu,Viraat Purusa.

 

***

 

 

"Raso vai saha"

Brahm is rasa/ananda.

 

"Ishvarah paramah Krsnah

Sat.chit.ANANDA vigraha"

 

Sri KRsna,you are ANANDA.

 

***

"Rasevam labdhva anandi bhavati"

The jeevatma becomes Blissful after attaining that Brahm.

 

"Sada Pashyanti Surayah tat Vishnoh paramam padam" - rg veda,subala sruti.

after attaining that place of Vishnu,the jeevatma becomes blissful for endless time.

 

***

 

His maya is indestructible and unbeatable.

"Mama maya duratyaya..." Bhagavad Geeta.

 

"Arjuna,this maya..is My MAya.She has everyone under her control.No one can overcome her without my mercy."

 

Thus,Sri Krsna is that BRahm,beyond everyone,the greatest,infallible and fully independent.

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Isopanishad 15<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

"O my Lord, sustainer of all that lives, Your real face is covered by Your dazzling effulgence. Kindly remove that covering and exhibit Yourself to Your pure devotee."<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

 

 

 

PURPORT<o:p></o:p>

 

 

In the Bhagavad-gétä (14.27), the Lord explains His personal rays (brahmajyoti), the dazzling effulgence of His personal form, in this way:<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

“I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.” <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Brahman, Paramätmä and Bhagavän are three aspects of the same Absolute Truth. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Brahman is the aspect most easily perceived by the beginner; <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Paramätmä, the Supersoul, is realized by those who have further progressed; and <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Bhagavän realization is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gétä (7.7), where Lord Kåñëa says that He is the ultimate concept of the Absolute Truth: mattaù parataraà nänyat. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Therefore Kåñëa is the source of the brahmajyoti as well as the all-pervading Paramätmä. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Later in the Bhagavad-gétä (10.42) Kåñëa further explains:<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

“But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.” <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Thus by His one plenary expansion, the all-pervading Paramätmä, the Lord maintains the complete material cosmic creation. He also maintains all manifestations in the spiritual world. Therefore in this çruti-mantra of Çré Éçopaniñad, the Lord is addressed as püñan, the ultimate maintainer.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The Personality of Godhead, Çré Kåñëa, is always filled with transcendental bliss (änanda-mayo ’bhyäsät). When He was present at Våndävana in India five thousand years ago, He always remained in transcendental bliss, even from the beginning of His childhood pastimes. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

In His village of Våndävana He enjoyed Himself with His mother, brother and friends, and when He played the role of a naughty butter thief, all His associates enjoyed celestial bliss by His stealing. The Lord’s fame as a butter thief is not reproachable, for by stealing butter the Lord gave pleasure to His pure devotees. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Everything the Lord did in Våndävana was for the pleasure of His associates there. The Lord created these pastimes to attract the dry speculators and the acrobats of the so-called haöha-yoga system who wish to find the Absolute Truth.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Of the childhood play between the Lord and His playmates, the cowherd boys, Çukadeva Gosvämé says in Çrémad-Bhägavatam (10.12.11):<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

“The Personality of Godhead, who is perceived as the impersonal, blissful Brahman by the jïänés, who is worshiped as the Supreme Lord by devotees in the mood of servitorship, and who is considered an ordinary human being by mundane people, played with the cowherd boys, who had attained their position after accumulating many pious activities.”<o:p></o:p>

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Thus the Lord is always engaged in transcendental loving activities with His spiritual associates in the various relationships of:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

çänta (neutrality), <o:p></o:p>

däsya (servitorship), <o:p></o:p>

sakhya (friendship), <o:p></o:p>

vätsalya (parental affection) and <o:p></o:p>

mädhurya (conjugal love).<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Since it is said that Lord Kåñëa never leaves Våndävana-dhäma, one may ask how He manages the affairs of the creation. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

This is answered in the Bhagavad-gétä (13.14–18): The Lord pervades the entire material creation by His plenary part known as the Paramätmä, or Supersoul. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Although the Lord personally has nothing to do with material creation, maintenance and destruction, He causes all these things to be done by His plenary expansion, the Paramätmä. Every living entity is known as ätmä, soul, and the principal ätmä who controls them all is Paramätmä, the Supersoul.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

This system of God realization is a great science. The materialistic säìkhya-yogés can only analyze and meditate on the twenty-four factors of the material creation, for they have very little information of the puruña, the Lord. And the impersonal transcendentalists are simply bewildered by the glaring effulgence of the brahmajyoti. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

If one wants to see the Absolute Truth in full, one has to penetrate beyond the twenty-four material elements and the glaring effulgence as well. Çré Éçopaniñad points toward this direction, praying for the removal of the hiraëmaya-pätra, the dazzling covering of the Lord. Unless this covering is removed so one can perceive the real face of the Personality of Godhead, factual realization of the Absolute Truth can never be achieved.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The Paramätmä feature of the Personality of Godhead is one of three plenary expansions, or viñëu-tattvas, collectively known as the puruña-avatäras. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

One of these viñëu-tattvas who is within the universe is known as Kñérodakaçäyé Viñëu. <o:p></o:p>

He is the Viñëu among the three principal deities—Brahmä, Viñëu and Çiva—and He is the all-pervading Paramätmä in each and every individual living entity. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The second viñëu-tattva within the universe is Garbhodakaçäyé Viñëu, the collective Supersoul of all living entities. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Beyond these two is Käraëodakaçäyé Viñëu, who lies in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com><st1:place w:st=Causal </ST1:POcean</st1:place>. He is the creator of all universes. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The yoga system teaches the serious student to meet the viñëu-tattvas after going beyond the twenty-four material elements of the cosmic creation. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

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The culture of empiric philosophy helps one realize the impersonal brahmajyoti, which is the glaring effulgence of the transcendental body of Lord Çré Kåñëa. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

That the brahmajyoti is Kåñëa’s effulgence is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gétä (14.27) as well as the Brahma-saàhitä (5.40):<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

“In the millions and millions of universes there are innumerable planets, and each and every one of them is different from the others by its cosmic constitution. All of these planets are situated in a corner of the brahmajyoti. This brahmajyoti is but the personal rays of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, whom I worship.” <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

This mantra from the Brahma-saàhitä is spoken from the platform of factual realization of the Absolute Truth, and the çruti-mantra of Çré Éçopaniñad under discussion confirms this mantra as a process of realization. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

This Éçopaniñad mantra is a simple prayer to the Lord to remove the brahmajyoti so that one can see His real face. This brahmajyoti effulgence is described in detail in several mantras of the Muëòaka Upaniñad (2.2.10–12):<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

“In the spiritual realm, beyond the material covering, is the unlimited Brahman effulgence, which is free from material contamination. That effulgent white light is understood by transcendentalists to be the light of all lights. In that realm there is no need of sunshine, moonshine, fire or electricity for illumination. Indeed, whatever illumination appears in the material world is only a reflection of that supreme illumination. That Brahman is in front and in back, in the north, south, east and west, and also overhead and below. In other words, that supreme Brahman effulgence spreads throughout both the material and spiritual skies.”<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Perfect knowledge means knowing Kåñëa as the root of this Brahman effulgence. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

This knowledge can be gained from such scriptures as Çrémad-Bhägavatam, which perfectly elaborates the science of Kåñëa. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

In Çrémad-Bhägavatam, the author, Çréla Vyäsadeva, has established that one will describe the Supreme Truth as Brahman, Paramätmä or Bhagavän according to one’s realization of Him. Çréla Vyäsadeva never states that the Supreme Truth is a jéva, an ordinary living entity. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The living entity should never be considered the all-powerful Supreme Truth. If he were the Supreme, he would not need to pray to the Lord to remove His dazzling cover so that the living entity could see His real face.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The conclusion is that one who has no knowledge of the potencies of the Supreme Truth will realize the impersonal Brahman. Similarly, when one realizes the material potencies of the Lord but has little or no information of the spiritual potencies, he attains Paramätmä realization. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Thus both Brahman and Paramätmä realization of the Absolute Truth are partial realizations. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

However, when one realizes the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Çré Kåñëa, in full potency after the removal of the hiraëmaya-pätra, one realizes väsudevaù sarvam iti: Lord Çré Kåñëa, who is known as Väsudeva, is everything—Brahman, Paramätmä and Bhagavän. He is Bhagavän, the root, and Brahman and Paramätmä are His branches.

<o:p> </o:p>

In the Bhagavad-gétä (6.46–47) there is a comparative analysis of the three types of transcendentalists:<o:p></o:p>

the worshipers of the impersonal Brahman (jïänés), <o:p></o:p>

the worshipers of the Paramätmä feature (yogés) and <o:p></o:p>

the devotees of Lord Çré Kåñëa (bhaktas). <o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

It is stated there that the jïänés, those who have cultivated Vedic knowledge, are better than ordinary fruitive workers, that the yogés are still greater than the jïänés, and that among all yogés, those who constantly serve the Lord with all their energies are the topmost. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

In summary, a philosopher is better than a laboring man, a mystic is superior to a philosopher, and of all the mystic yogés, he who follows bhakti-yoga, constantly engaging in the service of the Lord, is the highest. Çré Éçopaniñad directs us toward this perfection.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

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Yea, but now we have internet forums. It's easier like this.

Knowledge of Brahman from the internet?

 

I find that there one too many view points floating around the net. Nothing is ever deleted. Sometimes I am surprised/shocked when a number of my posts in other forums from 2001 onwards are seen in this forum. I have changed my views. (and the name) But the posts remain unchanged.

 

Yes. We do get a lot of information. I have learnt a lot from this forum. But for this to become knowledge, I have to understand and assimilate.

 

Just my point of view.

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Knowledge of Brahman from the internet?

 

I find that there one too many view points floating around the net. Nothing is ever deleted. Sometimes I am surprised/shocked when a number of my posts in other forums from 2001 onwards are seen in this forum. I have changed my views. (and the name) But the posts remain unchanged.

 

Yes. We do get a lot of information. I have learnt a lot from this forum. But for this to become knowledge, I have to understand and assimilate.

 

Just my point of view.

I agree. :) Knowledge is a term that applies to science. We 'know' something if it is understood at some level and if it can be tested in reproducible scientific experiments. Thus knowledge can be found on the internet. However, we cannot know God in this sense. Although God may know us, and do scientific experiments with us, we don't know Him. It appears to be logically impossible for a part of the whole to know the whole..

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it is not possible to describe brahman because he is vakya-man-atita or beyond mind and speech. grossly speaking the supreme god of hinduism is this brahman . all the shrutis(vedas ,upanishads etc) have spoken of and tried to simplify the concept of brahman .but at the same time it has always been said that he cannot be understood in totality . vedic philosophy maintains that this brahman is the source of everything , including the universe , planets , matter , living beings and even gods(devas). it is from him that the cosmos is projected and in the end it resolves back to him . the supreme attainable goal of any living creature is to realise and feel this brahman's presence in every thing .

 

there are different ways of understanding brahman . although all sects agree him as the supreme , their modes of understanding do differ . an advaitin (follower of advaita vedanta or the monistic school) percieves brahman as the perfect unity.the one without a second . all things are in reality brahman itself which we are not being able to percieve due to ignorance(maya).

 

a dvaitin(follower of dvaita vedanta or dualistic school) would say the krishna is himself the purna-brahman or that brahman is actually the bodily effulgence of krishna .

 

but whatever may be its understanding one thing is for certain , that brahman has been the most important topic of hindu philosophy and understanding . terms like brahmachaari , brahmin , brahmagyan all have direct links with the word brahman.

 

modern advaita interprets the various gods and goddeses not as mere illusion but personal manifestations of the same brahman .

 

throughout indian history this veiw was subconciously prevalent among the hindu masses in india. thats why we find the highest praises being sung in the glory of all gods without any confusion . this was possible because most people had this veiw that there is one supreme god(brahman)of whom the rest are expansions .

 

and yes brahmaa and brahman are not same ......... brahma is the four headed god of creation . brahman is........... well , no one knows for certain !!!!

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It is possible to describe BRAHMAN!

 

Godhead, the Almighty God the Father in His Transcendental-to-this manifest-Material-Creation, The Kingdom of God, outside the material world --is fully described, delineated, revealed and illustrated in the Vedas --is a trinity that encompasses all aspects of creation.

 

Beyond these three catagogies of creation exist no other person/place nor things.

 

These three aspects of God include all:

 

1 - BRAHMAN = God's omnipresence as "the void/space/empty field".

 

2 - PARAM-ATMA = God localised as the nucleus of every atom, cognisant or inanimate, in creation; aka, the uniquely individual, indivisible, unsoluble, eternal/cognisant/blissfull [vector-point] known as the SOUL of a living entity, ie: 1 of 8,400,000 species, each which are in possession of their unique address of individuality [a vector-point --Our absolute identity is the ipso-facto birthright of our existance --it like a Serial number of our Right-to-exist. We exist therefore we cannot be denied our individuality].

 

3 - BHAGAVAN = The Personage of God that must be revealed by our Mother Vedas [bestowed knowledge by way of an unbroken succession of those in-the-know].

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It is possible to describe BRAHMAN!

 

Godhead, the Almighty God the Father in His Transcendental-to-this manifest-Material-Creation, The Kingdom of God, outside the material world --is fully described, delineated, revealed and illustrated in the Vedas --is a trinity that encompasses all aspects of creation.

 

Beyond these three catagogies of creation exist no other person/place nor things.

 

These three aspects of God include all:

 

1 - BRAHMAN = God's omnipresence as "the void/space/empty field".

 

2 - PARAM-ATMA = God localised as the nucleus of every atom, cognisant or inanimate, in creation; aka, the uniquely individual, indivisible, unsoluble, eternal/cognisant/blissfull [vector-point] known as the SOUL of a living entity, ie: 1 of 8,400,000 species, each which are in possession of their unique address of individuality

[Our absolute identity is the ipso-facto birthright of our existance --it like a Serial number of our Right-to-exist. We exist therefore we cannot be denied our individuality].

 

3 - BHAGAVAN = The Personage of God that must be revealed by our Mother Vedas [bestowed knowledge by way of an unbroken succession of those in-the-know].

 

 

But 'description' is not 'knowledge'..

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Originally Posted by Primate post #17: "But 'description' is not 'knowledge'.."

 

 

Bhaktajan: I do not see, intellectually, the point your are attempting to describe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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Bhaktajan, In Response to Post #14 by Primate:

 

I agree. Bread-making is a term that applies to a very profitable science.

We 'know' something if it is understood at some level and if it can be tested in reproducible scientific experiments [for example: Bread-making]. Thus knowledge can be found on the internet. However, we cannot know how to make Bread in this sense. Although Bread-making may be known to us, and do scientific profitable experiments with us, we don't know Bread-making. It appears to be logically impossible for a part of thewhole [Loaf of Bread] to know the how to bake it self ..

 

 

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Broken down simply, Krsna(as Maha-Visnu) is the creator of the universe and all things in it, He created Brahma, who was the first devotee. That's how I learned it anyways.

 

Sri Brahma-samhita 5.18: When Visnu lying in the ocean of milk wills to create this universe, a golden lotus springs from His navel-pit. The golden lotus with its stem is the abode of Brahma representing Brahmaloka or Satyaloka

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Originally Posted by Primate post #17: "But 'description' is not 'knowledge'.."

 

 

Bhaktajan: I do not see, intellectually, the point your are attempting to describe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Bhaktajan, In Response to Post #14 by Primate:

 

I agree. Bread-making is a term that applies to a very profitable science. We 'know' something if it is understood at some level and if it can be tested in reproducible scientific experiments [for example: Bread-making]. Thus knowledge can be found on the internet. However, we cannot know how to make Bread in this sense. Although Bread-making may be known to us, and do scientific profitable experiments with us, we don't know Bread-making. It appears to be logically impossible for a part of thewhole [Loaf of Bread] to know the how to bake it self ..

 

 

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It's more like:

 

Bread-making is a term that applies to science. We 'know' how to make bread if it is understood at some level and if it can be tested in reproducible scientific bread-making experiments. Thus knowledge can be found on the internet. However, we cannot know how to make God in this sense. Although God may know us, and may do scientific experiments with us, we don't know God. It appears to be logically impossible for a part of the whole [God] to know the whole [God] ..

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But it is possible for a part of the whole to know the whole!

 

Even Toto the dog met the wizard of OZ --but Toto was a dog with dog intelligence.

 

The toilet cleaner can come to know the Chief Executive Officer.

 

The criminal may come to know the Emperor--but these situations MUST be cultivated over time.

 

The definition of the verb-root of the word YOGA and similarly the word RELIGION is to re-link with Source.

 

Labor-Unions are designed to level the playing field between the Industry Chiefs and the common day laborer.

 

We the people find these truths to be self-evident . . .

 

 

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But it is possible for a part of the whole to know the whole!

 

Even Toto the dog met the wizard of OZ --but Toto was a dog with dog intelligence.

 

The toilet cleaner can come to know the Chief Executive Officer.

 

The criminal may come to know the Emperor--but these situations MUST be cultivated over time.

 

The definition of the verb-root of the word YOGA and similarly the word RELIGION is to re-link with Source.

 

Labor-Unions are designed to level the playing field between the Industry Chiefs and the common day laborer.

 

We the people find these truths to be self-evident . . .

 

 

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Agreed.. :)

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At the risk of making things seem too simple, we can consider that Brahman somewhat means "REALITY". This reality we perceive, all that exists, existence itself, this is Brahman. However: this REALITY has a source, and necessarily that Source is beyond it. And yes, that source is a person, it is God, it is Bhagavan Sri Krsna, as will be clearly explained by Arjuna below.

 

The sanskrit term "param" means 'beyond'. This is the word that Arjuna uses in the Bhagavad-gita verse quoted below to describe the unique position of Lord Krishna. Arjuna asserts that Krsna is beyond Brahman, param brahman. He fully accepts the earlier revelation of the Lord in their conversation that everything rests on Him, as pearls are strung on a thread [Bhagavad-gita 7.7].

 

The reality is that Sri Krsna is Brahman, everything, Reality, all that is; and yet inconceivably at the same time He remains Himself - the fully independent unborn cause of all causes. He is param brahman, and He has spoken this in the Bhagavad-gita to His dearmost friend and devotee, Arjuna.

:
<center>
arjuna uvAca

paraM brahma paraM dhAma

pavitraM paramaM bhavAn

puruSaM zAzvataM divyam

Adi-devam ajaM vibhum

Ahus tvAm RSayaH sarve

devarSir nAradas tathA

asito devalo vyAsaH

svayaM caiva bravISi me

</center>

arjunaH uvAca--Arjuna said; param--supreme; brahma--truth; param--supreme; dhAma--sustenance; pavitram--pure; paramam--supreme; bhavAn--You; puruSam--personality; zAzvatam--original; divyam--transcendental; Adi-devam--the original Lord; ajam--unborn; vibhum--greatest; AhuH--say; tvAm--of You; RSayaH--sages; sarve--all; deva-RSiH--the sage among the demigods; nAradaH--NArada; tathA--also; asitaH--Asita; devalaH--Devala; vyAsaH--VyAsa; svayam--personally; ca--also; eva--certainly; bravISI--You are explaining; me--unto me.

Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth. You are the eternal, transcendental, original person, the unborn, the greatest. All the great sages such as NArada, Asita, Devala and VyAsa confirm this truth about You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.

PURPORT

 

In these two verses the Supreme Lord gives a chance to the modern philosopher, for here it is clear that the Supreme is different from the individual soul. Arjuna, after hearing the essential four verses of
in this chapter, became completely free from all doubts and accepted KRSNa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He at once boldly declares, "You are paraM brahma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And previously KRSNa stated that He is the originator of everything and everyone. Every demigod and every human being is dependent on Him. Men and demigods, out of ignorance, think that they are absolute and independent of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That ignorance is removed perfectly by the discharge of devotional service. This has already been explained in the previous verse by the Lord. Now, by His grace, Arjuna is accepting Him as the Supreme Truth, in concordance with the Vedic injunction. It is not that because KRSNa is Arjuna's intimate friend Arjuna is flattering Him by calling Him the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth. Whatever Arjuna says in these two verses is confirmed by Vedic truth. Vedic injunctions affirm that only one who takes to devotional service to the Supreme Lord can understand Him, whereas others cannot. Each and every word of this verse spoken by Arjuna is confirmed by Vedic injunction.

 

 

In the Kena UpaniSad it is stated that the Supreme Brahman is the rest for everything, and KRSNa has already explained that everything is resting on Him. The MuNDaka UpaniSad confirms that the Supreme Lord, in whom everything is resting, can be realized only by those who engage constantly in thinking of Him. This constant thinking of KRSNa is smaraNam, one of the methods of devotional service. It is only by devotional service to KRSNa that one can understand his position and get rid of this material body.

 

 

In the Vedas the Supreme Lord is accepted as the purest of the pure. One who understands that KRSNa is the purest of the pure can become purified from all sinful activities. One cannot be disinfected from sinful activities unless he surrenders unto the Supreme Lord. Arjuna's acceptance of KRSNa as the supreme pure complies with the injunctions of Vedic literature. This is also confirmed by great personalities, of whom NArada is the chief.

 

 

KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and one should always meditate upon Him and enjoy one's transcendental relationship with Him. He is the supreme existence. He is free from bodily needs, birth and death. Not only does Arjuna confirm this, but all the Vedic literatures, the PurANas and histories. In all Vedic literatures KRSNa is thus described, and the Supreme Lord Himself also says in the Fourth Chapter, "Although I am unborn, I appear on this earth to establish religious principles." He is the supreme origin; He has no cause, for He is the cause of all causes, and everything is emanating from Him. This perfect knowledge can be had by the grace of the Supreme Lord.

 

 

Here Arjuna expresses himself through the grace of KRSNa. If we want to understand Bhagavad-gItA, we should accept the statements in these two verses. This is called the paramparA system, acceptance of the disciplic succession. Unless one is in the disciplic succession, he cannot understand Bhagavad-gItA. It is not possible by so-called academic education. Unfortunately those proud of their academic education, despite so much evidence in Vedic literatures, stick to their obstinate conviction that KRSNa is an ordinary person.

 

 

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