chandu_69 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Humanbeings have to base their actions on Dharma and not by karma. This i believe is the guiding priniciple.This thread is prompted by the discussions on abortion but i dont wish to make it a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Human beings have to base their actions on Dharma and not by karma. ... Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandu_69 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Because we dont know what karma has in store for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Yogi Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Humanbeings have to base their actions on Dharma and not by karma. This i believe is the guiding priniciple.This thread is prompted by the discussions on abortion but i dont wish to make it a starting point. then that means that every act, every deed, every thought must be dedicated in devotional service to the Lord. Who can do that? A rare few. There are many pretenders out there that put on a show of being wholesale devoted in devotional service, but if you look close enough you will find hidden money, jet-set lifestyles flying around the world to "preach" etc. Lip service to Dharma is easy. Doing only those things that are service to God is another thing. Prabhupada tried to create a society where living Dharma was practical. Some of his ambitious followers turned it into their personal pleasure palace. Creating a place where anyone and everyone could live a life of Dharma got tossed out the door with a lot of the Godbrothers who took issue with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Action and reaction in karma goes on ceaselessly. We are all faulty, with many anarthas, so we are just students learning to follow Sanatana Dharma. But bhakti is so strong that even though we have defects, and often have bhakti mixed with karma or jnana, bhakti will gradually purify us. I just read this today in Madhurya Kadambini, which is much superior to a Lamborghini. It says "Like a touchstone, the very presence of bhakti makes the heart and senses gradually lose their iron-like material qualities and acquire pure golden spiritual qualities." Therefore, Vaishnavas must base their actions on the following of sanatana-dharma. Unfortunately, this is not the case with human beings in general. It is up to us to educate them. jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Isn’t Karma a Dharmic (normative) consideration? For example: you don’t kill another living being because you may consequently have to experience being killed yourself in this - or a next life.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Karma = action. That is all it signifies. Dharma = occupational duties. The idea behind the title of this thread is: Dharma (duties) define the daily life of Humans. vs. The daily ethos of life is to preform actions that results only in reactions --without sublime purpose. All animals preform "acts" (karma) and the same animals perform selflessly, their own dharma (duties) --but without self-reflection/introspection as to "why". Being a "Human being" is above & beyond "being a Man" --The obligations of be-coming a Human differ from the ethos of being a Man among the common populace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandu_69 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Isn’t Karma a Dharmic (normative) consideration? I will put it this way.Karma is the result of your actions.Knowledge of Karma makes you not deviate from dharma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I will put it this way.Karma is the result of your actions.Knowledge of Karma makes you not deviate from dharma. Then it seems the question still remains: What is the primary principle? Knowledge of Karma or Dharma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandu_69 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Then it seems the question still remains: What is the primary principle? Knowledge of Karma or Dharma? Dharma ofcourse.Because you dont know what karma has in store for you for the deeds you have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Dharma ofcourse.Because you dont know what karma has in store for you for the deeds you have done. Action = reaction, according to basic karmic law. And although we don’t know the deeds we have done in previous lives, a guiding principle in our current life could be: Do not create negative karma and enjoy reactions from positive karma.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandu_69 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Action = reaction, according to basic karmic law. And although we don’t know the deeds we have done in previous lives, a guiding principle in our current life could be: Do not create negative karma and enjoy reactions from positive karma.. And dharma is the basis on which karma is calculated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffster Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Suffering and enjoyment are both coming as resultant reactions to prior deeds. We must not be reactionary. We must proceed to the spiritual plane of suddha sattva immediately. We need to jump off the samsara wheel altogether, not hang out here hoping to enjoy our positive karma. This is because both good & bad karma bind us to the wheel. Jiv jago !! jeffster/AMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambya Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Humanbeings have to base their actions on Dharma and not by karma. but its also true that until one attains the supreme his karmic reactions whether good or bad is bound to continue . one can only transcend karma bandhan and the three gunas after god realization , not before that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visnujana Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 but its also true that until one attains the supreme his karmic reactions whether good or bad is bound to continue . one can only transcend karma bandhan and the three gunas after god realization , not before that . Yes, there is a natural sequence: sakam-karma -> niskama-karma -> nirguna-bhakti or well.. moksa. In other words although the incentive to perform activities is there, the sastras advice and guide us to use it in a way that the activities themselve help us to ultimately break free from the karma bandhan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktatraveler Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Humanbeings have to base their actions on Dharma and not by karma. This i believe is the guiding priniciple.This thread is prompted by the discussions on abortion but i dont wish to make it a starting point. Best to simply take instruction from a highly qualified Guru, like Srila Prabhupada. I just love this all inclusive verse! SB. 8.2.30.... Thereafter, because of being pulled into the water and fighting for many long years, the elephant became diminished in his mental, physical and sensual strength. The crocodile, on the contrary, being an animal of the water, increased in enthusiasm, physical strength and sensual power. PURPORT In the fighting between the elephant and the crocodile, the difference was that although the elephant was extremely powerful, he was in a foreign place, in the water. During one thousand years of fighting, he could not get any food, and under the circumstances his bodily strength diminished, and because his bodily strength diminished, his mind also became weak and his senses less powerful. The crocodile, however, being an animal of the water, had no difficulties. He was getting food and was therefore getting mental strength and sensual encouragement. Thus while the elephant became reduced in strength, the crocodile became more and more powerful. Now, from this we may take the lesson that in our fight with māyā we should not be in a position in which our strength, enthusiasm and senses will be unable to fight vigorously. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacarya, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyāsa. aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam devareṇa sutotpattiṁ kalau pañca vivarjayet </I>[Cc. </B>Ādi</B> </I>17.164</I>]</I> (Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa) From this we can understand that in this age the sannyāsa-āśrama is forbidden because people are not strong. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed us an example in taking sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years, but even Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya advised Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to be extremely careful because He had taken sannyāsa at an early age. For preaching we give young boys sannyāsa, but actually it is being experienced that they are not fit for sannyāsa. There is no harm, however, if one thinks that he is unfit for sannyāsa; if he is very much agitated sexually, he should go to the āśrama where sex is allowed, namely the gṛhastha-āśrama. That one has been found to be very weak in one place does not mean that he should stop fighting the crocodile of māyā. One should take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, as we shall see Gajendra do, and at the same time one can be a gṛhastha if he is satisfied with sexual indulgence. There is no need to give up the fight. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore recommended, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vān-manobhiḥ. One may stay in whichever āśrama is suitable for him; it is not essential that one take sannyāsa. If one is sexually agitated, he can enter the gṛhastha-āśrama. But one must continue fighting. For one who is not in a transcendental position, to take sannyāsa artificially is not a very great credit. If sannyāsa is not suitable, one may enter the gṛhastha-āśrama and fight māyā with great strength. But one should not give up the fighting and go away.(END) RCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 And dharma is the basis on which karma is calculated. Agreed.. Karma is the most basic set of cosmic rules, that connects all cause and effect in gross - subtle - and soul affairs. The miracle of Karma is that it is very strictly implemented by the Super soul, without limiting our apparent free will. Dharma is the absolute (sacred/Vedic) law (God's law). The four qualities of dharma are described in Bhagavata Purana (1.17.24): - mercy (refusal of violence, meat-eating, etc.) - renunciation/sense control (refusal of intoxicants) - truthfulness (refusal of gambling and speculations) - purity (refusal of sex forbidden in scriptures) Thus it is absolutely established which human activities are good or bad and bring positive – or negative karmic reactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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