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Does time exist in the Spititual World?

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<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">But despite all this, it is still not proper to say that, "the jivas originate in Goloka Vrndavana" or that "the jivas are presently in Goloka and dreaming that they are in the material world". It's against siddhanta to say such things because it implies that our eternal worshipable masters, the parishad devotees can fall down to a positon like ours. And to even imply such a thing is an aparadha or offense - not bhakti. And this is not my speculation. by beggar </td></tr></tbody></table>

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Well, your ‘speculation’ is wrong, there is always freewill and choice and anyone who is jiva tattva, can fall down however, most do not fall down to the material DREAM but always choose stay as a nitya-siddha serving Krsna.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

But even if them, no matter what jiva tattva they are, they have a choice, they can fall down if they choose, but they (90%) choose not to be over come by maya<o:p></o:p>

 

Although from the angle of vision of the present moment of eternity all are perfect, from the angle of vision of our present bondage in material time and conditioning there are souls who are perfect who have come to save us. Therefore we think of souls like Srila Rupa Goswami as eternally perfect and only appearing temporarily as minister of a Muslim king as an instructional lila orchestrated by the Lord. We think of ourselves as fallen souls although we pray that someday the veil of the Maya Jala will be lifted and we can really experience the holy name and citamani dhama. It's all about application of thoughts to a prayerful existence which is an instrinsic part of bhakti, not endless quarrel and debate over theology with devotees. Oh when will that day me mine when I can see the good in everyone, starting with the devotees and offer proper respect to everyone (according to their position). When will the day come that I will stop pretending that know more than those who have genuine devotion? Will I then give up my pride and arrogance for they are such burdens to carry.

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So if you don't think you can reach the same status as your spiritual master then you are certainly speculating.

 

 

This is a very dangerous philosophy. You imply that a conditioned soul once purified is not really purified. He has some eternal taint about him. Also no one can be a spiritual master who did not come from the spiritual world. In this way you limit the purifying potency of Krishna Nama which might just be an offense.

 

There is devotional philosophy and devotional mood. In the moods or transcendental sentiments of the pure devotees we can see the application of devotional philosophy. Also visa versa, acaryas like Srila Jiva Goswami have taken these moods and the realizations that are received in them and put them in a philosophical form, for the benefit of human civilization. All of these kind of thoughts taken to their extreme dualities without harmonizing them with the apparently opposing view can be dangerous in and of themselves. Thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. But "Krsna" which implies love of Krsna, Krsna prema (prema pumartho mahan) is the all-hamonizing factor. We may not have this but this can be our ideal. This aspiration in what we should be looking for in those we associate with in person or on the internet. What good is suspicion? Now if I could only follow this myself, for I'm sure that it takes some humility that I do not have at present.

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When will the day come that I will stop pretending that know more than those who have genuine devotion? Will I then give up my pride and arrogance for they are such burdens to carry. by beggar

Thx. It's a lovely sentiment to hold...and I am sure to have the company of such simple-hearted souls would be the greatest gift...ever!!

 

In bhajan....to take the lowest position...would have to mean tasting the highest rasa. As you say Beggar, I am far from that perfection too...what a misfortune! Some are genuinely simple and devoted..

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So if you don't think you can reach the same status as your spiritual master then you are certainly speculating.

 

 

This is a very dangerous philosophy. You imply that a conditioned soul once purified is not really purified. He has some eternal taint about him. Also no one can be a spiritual master who did not come from the spiritual world. In this way you limit the purifying potency of Krishna Nama which might just be an offense.

 

Good point

 

 

It depends what siksha we follow. I will not be practicing the bhajan that Sarva is offering (siksha in), even if he continues to imply that other processes are mayavada etc.

 

 

 

All I am implying is we do not come from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, we have come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago

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This is the most pathetic discussion i have ever seen.

 

You people have built an entire castle on a few statements of SP.

 

I mean these statements don't even come from scriptures.

Then again there is the problem that SP never says it directly,

"You are dreaming.You have entered the Mahat tattva as a subconscious entity as a PROJECTION."

 

This is just so pathetic.

 

This means that Jeeva Gosvami may,in the future,get the body of a pig,if he has some 'selfish desires'.

You know how offensive this is ???

 

I don't even think you can nullify this aparadha.

And it's not even as if you have any scriptural support.

You'll have just built it upon your own imagination.

 

And if a person says you'll are wrong,you all merely overwhelm him and send him away.

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All I am implying is we do not come from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, we have come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago

 

"Coming From the Brahmjyoti" this action never happens,for the Jeevatma is in the Mahat tattva from beginning less time.

If you say that is not possible,then you have to also deny the fact that Bhagavan has a particular form since beginningless time.

 

Jeevatma coming from the Brahmjyoti as a separated particle is not real,for Jeevatma maintains its atomic form for eternal time.That is it's satta.

Just like the formless Brahm maintains its satta as different from Jeeva tattva.

Both maintain their personalities.

 

Thus there is no question of falldown of jeevatma,for there is no falldown in the first place.

 

***

 

If you say jeevatma fell down from Vaikuntha,where did Sri Krsna's ever increaing All attractiveness go ???

In the liberated state,we MAY get attracted to the miserable material world ???

 

It is like a slap on the Vaisnavacharyas who tirelessly propagate that Sri Krsna is Supreme Bliss itself.

 

getting attracted to material happiness AFTER attaining goloka,means that BLISS is different from Sri Krsna.Otherwise why would anyone get attracted to material world ??

 

BUT there is one little snag.

 

RASO VAI SAHA.

 

He is BLISS itself.

He is BLISS itself

He is BLISS itself

He is BLISS itself.

 

 

SADA PASYANTI SURAYAH TAD VISHNOH PARAMAM PADAM.

 

SADA

SADA

SADA.

 

For ETERNITY,the siddhas stay in Vaikuntha.

 

***

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Well' date=' your ‘speculation’ is wrong, there is always freewill and choice and [b']anyone who is jiva tattva, can fall down however, most do not fall down to the material DREAM but always choose stay as a nitya-siddha serving Krsna.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

But even if them, no matter what jiva tattva they are, they have a choice, they can fall down if they choose, but they (90%) choose not to be over come by maya<o:p></o:p>

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>This is the order how I see it

1 - Rasa, nitya siddha or eternal vigraha body<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

2 - To the baddha-jiva dream state that possesses ethereal material vessels or bodies in the mahat-tattva or the material creation of three modes of nature (dream bodies including the ethereal body being covered by many biological types of bodies.)<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

3 - Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahma sayujya achieved after the great effort to 'free the mind' from active thoughts of self centred enjoying<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

4 - Falling down from that already fallen state is inevitable because the nature of the soul is activity.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

5 - Another attempt is given in the mahat-tattva to meet a pure devotee of Krsna and 'regain' the memory of ones eternal rasa or nitya siddha body, from which the dream state nitya-baddha consciousness originates</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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FALLING TO THE MATERIAL WORLD

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

For a living entity to transmigrate through the lower species to again reach the human body, means the living entity has FIRST chose to fall down previously, long, long, long ago from Vaikuntha, as their secondary lower baddha-jiva consciousness to the heavenly planets, then further to the middle planets, then the hellish planets

<o:p></o:p>

From the heavenly worlds, it’s then to human species of biological life in the middle planets.

<o:p></o:p>

Some also eventually take shelter in the dormant aspect of their own Brahman baddha-jiva consciousness that, along with other nitya-baddha souls after becoming fed up with the mahat tattva and its decaying temporary nature.

<o:p></o:p>

This false sense of security called the impersonal Brahman effulgence is a collective of souls known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the impersonal aspect of their individual Brahman or nitya-baddha consciousness.

<o:p></o:p>

Nevertheless, that 'inactive' state of individual consciousness is also temporary and one falls down from there again to the mahat-tattva or material creation to be enclosed again by ethereal and biological vessels.

<o:p></o:p>

Unfortunately many foolishly believe that this impersonal Brahmajyoti is their origin, but it is really just another dream state (A DREAMLESS DREAM IN THIS CASE) of the baddha-jiva.

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Srila Prabhupada – ‘Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence (the ability to choose) as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence". 67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada - "All tastes are fixed up, rasa, eternal, eternal rasa. Every one of us has a different taste of associating with Krishna, and that will be realised when one is liberated. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Hansadutta: So that's fixed already.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Yes. When you are liberated, you will understand in which way you are related with Krishna. That is called svarupa-siddhi. But that is attained when you are actually perfect in devotional service. Just like in our family we enjoy different rasas. We have got one kind of relationship with wife, one kind of relationship with sons and daughters, one kind of relationship with friends, one kind of relationship with servants, one kind of relationship with property. So similarly, Krishna... The whole creation is His family, and He has got relationship in that way. So why the son will change his relationship into husband and wife?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Hansadutta: I see.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Yes. Because every relationship is very palatable. The gentleman, the head of the family, his relationship with wife and his relationship with servant is as much palatable. There is no question of changing. Not that "I am tasting this rasa at the present moment. Then I will get better rasas." No. That is not... Everyone thinks, "My rasa is the best." Although there is comparative gradation, but everyone thinks. These things are explained in Chaitanya-charitamrita. Why don't you see?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Hansadutta: And Nectar of Devotion.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Yes. Everyone thinks, "My relationship with Krishna is the best."<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Hansadutta: So it's not a matter of aspiring to some--<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationships with Krishna.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Even the trees in Vrindaban, they want to serve Krishna silently in that way, supplying fruits and flowers. That is their ananda. Everyone enjoying the supreme bliss. When Krishna comes, takes a flower or fruit, that is their enjoyment. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, 10 February 1971, Gorakhpur<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

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TO simplify

------------

 

The Brahmajyoti is like whole blood. If you put it inside a test tube a few moments later, it separates into a layer of serum(top), platelets(middle) and red blood cells(bottom).

The serum layer contains antibodies that protect the body from germs. The platelet layer stops bleeding. The red blood cell layer carries oxygen.

In other words, individual souls whether they are mayavadis (serum layer) or Krsna devotees(red blood cell layer) or demons (platelet layer) all have roles to play in this life.

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The Spiritual Planets or Vaikunthas are in the Spiritual Sky. The Spiritual Sky is also known as the Brahmajyoti. In this sense the Spiritual Sky and it Vaikunthas are non-different. So in that sense both sides would agree that the jiva's in this world have come down from Vaikuntha.

 

Yakity yak

Don't talk back

 

Take out the paper and the trash

Or you don't get no spending cash (for your program)

If you don't sweep that temple floor

You ain't gonna go on sankirtan no more

 

Yakity yak

Don't talk back

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Hansadutta: I see.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Yes. Because every relationship is very palatable. The gentleman, the head of the family, his relationship with wife and his relationship with servant is as much palatable. There is no question of changing. Not that "I am tasting this rasa at the present moment. Then I will get better rasas." No. That is not... Everyone thinks, "My rasa is the best." Although there is comparative gradation, but everyone thinks. These things are explained in Chaitanya-charitamrita. Why don't you see?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Hansadutta: And Nectar of Devotion.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Yes. Everyone thinks, "My relationship with Krishna is the best."<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Hansadutta: So it's not a matter of aspiring to some--<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationships with Krishna.<o:p></o:p>

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Maybe someday I will write a book. And when I`m gone. I`d still be alive in the minds of those who read my book. Same thing with Srila Prabhupada. When I read his purports, he becomes animated in my mind and His Divine Grace lives in me.

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Maybe someday I will write a book. And when I`m gone. I`d still be alive in the minds of those who read my book. Same thing with Srila Prabhupada. When I read his purports, he becomes animated in my mind and His Divine Grace lives in me.

 

His Divine Grace. So who is He?

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His Divine Grace. So who is He?

 

His Divine Grace is God who dwells in me. He is also known as the Immanuel. It`s different when you read a magazine say, the Playboy. Because immediately the devil`s alive in you.

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How about the Divine Grace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Whom is none other that Sri Sri Radha Krsna in combined from? Could this Grace be manifesting through His first expansion, Sri Baladeva who appears in this yuga as Sri Nityandanda Prabhu?

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How about the Divine Grace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Whom is none other that Sri Sri Radha Krsna in combined from? Could this Grace be manifesting through His first expansion, Sri Baladeva who appears in this yuga as Sri Nityandanda Prabhu?

 

Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is His Divine Grace himself. When I read Srila Prabhupada`s purports, it`s as good as Nimai Pandit teaching me the science of Krsna consciousness.

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Richard L Thompson mentions that Boehm had the holograph theory of time. The psychiatrist Stanislav Grof has written a very interesting book called the Holotropic mind. Grof uses different language, but is aware of vedic thought...from what I have read he is pointing to Mahat-tattva and Pradhana type phenomena.

 

Most of these scientists have impersonal vision, but are moving into the realms of deeper consciousness with matter, which is actually defined as consciousness in Bhagavad Gita (material element). As Ramana dasi has pointed out in the Bhagavatam purport...the Lord's touch or glance one may say.

 

So really we must define what is the material world and what is the spiritual world when asking does time exist. I say this for several reasons. One is that there is basic material time that a conditioned soul experiences. Now, there is a deeper aspect to experience of time in the psyche - we have all had dejavu or visions of furure events maybe. You see there we are beginning to tap into the wonder of Maha-tattva and even to the fundamentals of pradhana in some ways. We could call these fundamentals set patterns maybe - foundational blocks.

 

So I intuit that there is tanscendence beyond the Mahat-tattva, as is also spoken about in sastra - Krsna and the planets. So there must be a dividing line, I guess that is called Viraja. I would speculate that spiritual time is even more advanced in make-up than the presently known theories of holo-tropic experience in connection with the vast hologram (that was theorized by Boehm) or that Mahat-tattva. Richard L Thompson was moving in this direction I presume, basing his studies on Spirtual Personality and transcendence from a vaisnava perspective.

 

I would say we can look at this subject matter in one simple way - considering that the sages have said that this world is shadow, therefore I would suggest that all things have a more subtle and finer principe - in a more refined perfect manner. Therefore if we were scientifically minded we could suggest that time does exist in a spiritual reality, in an inconceivable way.

 

The self realized soul, while still in the body, is free and in no way inhibited by grosser laws...even death cannot hold spirit.

 

 

The holo-experience is indescribable, but definately inconceivably one yet different - and perfectly whole. We must remember the founder of such thought was of the highest and finest theistic intellect (Sri Gauranga).

 

 

This is the perfect answer...the realm of lila...one yet different...there is no distance in love (because it burns in the heart and transforms into divine madness). A principle even more profound than the hologram...but as jiva we have this holographic encounter to utilize and dovetail (by God's grace).

 

In my opinion, time automatically vanishes at the uppermost level of spiritual world as reunion takes place with HIM. As he is beyond KAAL, time does not find its place there.

 

Om Shri Radha Krishnabhyam Namoh

 

S.K.Das

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Maybe that is the case. It would depend upon the souls desire I presume. For example if we seek the opulences of God in union, then Lordship over time would be there...

 

But, if we seek Vraj rasa we come under the influence of yoga-maya. This yoga-maya's purpose is to slowly lift the veil, to allow the supreme opulence to show its face without opulence over-riding. So the devotee in that land - comes under the supreme illusion of time (for sweet lila). Brahma stealing the cows is an example of yoga-maya at work.

 

If the devotee does not desire opulences, then maybe they are not manifest to the heart. I recall when I was a child I wondered if all the mysteries of God would be revealed at death. Now, this childhood fancy has left..

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Maybe that is the case. It would dependupon the souls desire I presume. For example if we seek the opulencesof God in union, then Lordship over time would be there...

 

So you are speculating that material time exists in Vaikuntha? I must disagree.

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I am not suggesting material time exists in Vaikuntha.

 

I am suggesting that the liberated servant in Vaikuntha may have no desire to know such things. But instead live within the Lord's yoga-maya performing pastimes for the Lord's pleasure...rather than simply the 'opulence' of being greater than time.

 

I am suggesting that there are morning and evenings in the spiritual world...

 

I am suggesting that spirit is of a much finer principle than gross experience like time. Therefore activity in that finer energy may have very little resemblance to material affairs.

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Jiv Jago - wake up sleeping souls!!

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

 

 

<o:p></o:p>

 

Everything in the material world (mahat tattva) is the dream of Maha-Vishnu, the material cosmos are His dreams and we can, due to free will and the ability to choose, enter His dreams of bodily vessels He has created in order to experience our own dreams, thoughts and desires without Krishna.

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Both dreams (the imaginings of the spirit soul and the dreams of Maha-Vishnu) coincide with each other however, it is Maha-Vishnu who provides the facilities for all living beings who have foolishly chosen to enter His mahat tattva dream domain to experience their own non-Krishna Conscious desires.

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The question is asked by some, 'does the material cosmos or mahat-tattva eventually repeat itself in the next creation of the mahat-tattva with a different batch of baddha-jivas playing out those embodied roles we have played out in this present manifestation? Does Maha Vishnu dream the same creation when he again breaths out?'

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

The answer is, who cares about such mind-bending thoughts, it does not matter because the material creation is not our home anyway, our real permanent home is in Goloka serving beautiful Krishna.

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Therefore, from that perpetual unending place of no past or future (only Krishna Lila time), the material creation is simply an illusion, a momentary dream

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Therefore, this place of ‘the dreaming’ is called the PERISHABLE mahat-tattva that is a real phenomenon in one corner of the Spiritual Sky yet is temporary. "This material creation is the spirit soul's dream, all existence in this world is the dream of Mahā-Viṣṇu" Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.83.

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Jiv Jago - wake up sleeping souls!!

 

 

 

 

 

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Speculating on the nature of the spiritual based on the Lord's lila as revealed on our planet will not give the exact picture. The rasa's are the essence. Every wonder how the prime sphere in spiritual life is like a perfect India.

 

The woman where sari's and everything is centered around the cow.

 

Anyway, it is natural to wonder about such things but we will not be able to speculate conclusively.

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From Hari Sauri prabhu

 

Here’s a very appropriate question considering the time of the year. This is from Acyuta prabhu in the CIS:

“In the spiritual world there is no factor of time. In the material world there is a past, the present and the future.

In spiritual world only the present. I cannot understand it.”

“How it is possible to understand, that in the spiritual world there is no past and the future? For example, if I have drunk a glass of water, it means, that process of drinking has remained in the past!

This process cannot be all time in present time?!… Even if this process will occur in the spiritual world, if I have jumped in water or I sit down on a chair, this action has already come to pass, that is remains in the past. How these actions can be all time in present time? Please, explain to me it is in the detailed image!”

Answer:

Understanding time is very difficult. This is a big topic and we cannot answer all the aspects in a short blog entry.

However, here are a few observations that may help you to get a better understanding.

Time is the force by which everything in the material world changes. It is the ultimate master of all living beings. It moves everything, and when there is no influence of time, there is no movement, nor variety:

SB 3.26.10

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: The unmanifested eternal combination of the three modes is the cause of the manifest state and is called pradhana. It is called prakrti when in the manifested stage of existence.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The Lord points out material nature in its subtle stage, which is called pradhana, and He analyzes this pradhana.

 

The explanation of pradhana and prakrti is that pradhana is the subtle, undifferentiated sum total of all material elements. Although they are undifferentiated, one can understand that the total material elements are contained therein.

When the total material elements are manifested by the interaction of the three modes of material nature, the manifestation is called prakrti.

The actual explanation of pradhana, however, is given here: when the cause and effect are not clearly manifested (avyakta), the reaction of the total elements does not take place, and that stage of material nature is called pradhana.

 

Pradhana is not the time element because in the time element there are actions and reactions, creation and annihilation. Nor is it the jiva, or marginal potency of living entities, or designated, conditioned living entities, because the designations of the living entities are not eternal.

 

One adjective used in this connection is nitya, which indicates eternality. Therefore the condition of material nature immediately previous to its manifestation is called pradhana.”

pradhana-and-maya.jpg

SB 11.3.8

 

“In the Third Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam Lord Kapiladeva teaches that the material nature originally exists in an inert state of equilibrium called pradhana.

 

When Lord Visnu casts His potent glance in the form of kala, or time, material interactions take place, culminating in the variegated creation of the material cosmos.

“In this verse it is stated that at the end of universal time the same kala that originally incited the female nature into manifestation again withdraws the cosmos into its original state of inert nonmanifestation.

According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, the time potency itself, kala, is then withdrawn, and it merges into the Supreme Soul, who manifests Himself as the original cause of material nature (anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam [bs. 5.1]).”

[end quote]

What we understand as time is really a figment of our imagination in the sense of there being a past, present and future.

 

We tend to ‘measure’ time by observing the changes that it causes to our bodies and the surrounding environment. However, the soul is fixed and immutable and does not change, so for the soul there is no past or future, only the present, or rather his own presence.

Material elements also do not change.

 

Different states of energy cannot be either created or destroyed and in their fundamental states they remain the same.

Material elements are the energy of the Supreme Lord and are therefore eternal. The only thing that does change are the combinations of material elements into various forms.

 

These combinations are provided so that the individual living beings can fulfill their various desires.

 

It is the presence of a living force within these combinations of matter give them the appearance of life.

When the life force is withdrawn, the forms simply dissolve. The souls remain, the material elements remain. Since these forms do not remain permanently, they are simply an illusion.

 

Thus there is no past, nor is there a future. There is only the continuous presence of the souls, and the material elements.

 

Time in the material world is the force that moves the individual soul from one situation to another in search of fulfillment of his desires.

 

Time is the supreme regulator. Time is Krsna. What we call time is simply the influence of Krsna without realization of His person. Srila Prabhupada describes time as the impersonal energy of the Supreme Lord.

In the spiritual world, Krsna is continuously present to His parts and parcel living entities.

radha-krishna-001.jpg

He dominates everything, He is everything. Time, or the sense of being, is therefore simply the sense of Krsna’s personal presence and one’s relationship with Him, and nothing more.

Since Krsna is eternal and the soul is eternal, there is no past nor any future but simply the loving exchanges between Krsna and His devotees which are endless in their variety.

The forms in the spiritual world are all spiritual. They are eternal, and yet they can change. How they can change was described by Srila Prabhupada in a talk given in Melbourne on May 20, 1975:

sp-at-melbourne74.jpg

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 — Melbourne, May 20, 1975

 

Yasomatinandana: Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?

 

Madhudvisa: The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it…

 

Prabhupada: Yes, human form. God is also human form. “Man is made after the shape of God.” I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs.

 

Hari-sauri: How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?

 

Prabhupada [decribing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul.

 

Hari-sauri: They are covered in the spiritual world?

 

Madhudvisa: He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well.

 

Prabhupada: Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that “As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna,” he becomes flower, voluntarily.

 

And he can change his…, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything.

Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [bg. 4.11]. That is Krsna’s all-powerfulness, spiritual life.”

[end quote]

The fact is that spiritual form is inconceivable to our present senses. In the material world we try to measure things. But to measure anything, there has to be a reference point and our own bodies are the reference we use to understand the rest of the world around us.

Thus our sense of existence is limited to the actions and existence of our own bodies.

 

You have given some examples of drinking or jumping in water or sitting on a chair. Once an action is completed, it is gone, it is in the past. As for the future, it is not manifest to us.

We do not know what will come next. We thus have a sense of separation from the action and the object, both in the past and the future.

 

But in the spiritual world Krsna is the object, and all action is for pleasing Him. There is never any separation from Krsna.

 

Krsna continuously dominates the consciousness of every living being and action is the eternal flow of service to Krsna. It never stops yet it takes on unlimited variety of performance.

It is inconceiveable, yet a fact.

On a morning walk on June 7 1976 in Los Angeles we discussed this with Srila Prabhupada:

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Ramesvara: In Caitanya-caritamrta you wrote that the kalpa-vrksa trees, they move, they are not stationary.

 

Prabhupada: They are spiritual.

 

Ramesvara: Is this true for the plants and flowers?

 

Prabhupada: Everything. Everything. They are spiritual, absolute. There is no condition. ‘Because it is tree, it cannot move’-that is condition.

 

Ramesvara: No condition. In the spiritual world, can trees and plants communicate? Here they have no means of communication, no talking.

 

Prabhupada: Everything is possible.

 

Ramesvara: The animals can also understand and communicate.

 

Prabhupada: You can milk the cows as many times as you like, and as much as you like.

 

Ramesvara: And talk with them.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no limit. That is spiritual world.

 

Hari-sauri: One thing that has always confused a lot of devotees is how is it possible to eat something in the spiritual world when that, the thing that you’re eating is also spiritual?

 

Prabhupada: There is no need of eating, but if they like, they can eat, enjoy.

 

Ramesvara: The taste, the flavor.

 

Devotee: But what happens to the thing that they’re eating?

 

Prabhupada: (laughs) Then you will see when you go there.

 

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada!

 

Prabhupada: This is our disease. When we’re talking of spiritual world, we are bringing material thoughts. To bring coal in Sheffield. What is called. Sheffield? There are many coal mines?

 

Hari-sauri: To bring coals to Newcastle.

 

Prabhupada: Yes, like that. Why should you bring your material ideas to the spiritual world? There is no relativity. Everything absolute.

 

Ramesvara: There is no day or night. Everything is self-illuminating.

 

Prabhupada: There is, but there is no need.

[end quote]

To summarize:

In the spiritual world, the force that moves everything is Krsna Himself. There is only the ‘present’. i.e. the ‘presence’ of Krsna. So there is no sense of past and future. Only eternal exchange with Krsna. There is no time in the spiritual world because Krsna Himself is the supreme regulating principle.

http://www.lotusimprints.com/new/blog/?p=588

 

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