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Who is truly practicing what Vedas teach?

We can’t even understand the true meaning of Vedic scriptures as long as mind is engulfed in tamo and rajo guna.

We are lazy when it comes to introspection, renunciation and practicing what we preach.

There are many books and religions derived from Vedas because there are many spiritual planes and different kinds of

realization. Perfection or liberation for bhakta is not same as liberation for Buddhist or advaitin. To each his own.

 

Esoteric vedanta does not have to teach about metabolism, physics and "Blackberries" because it’s goal is liberation from

material world through withdrawal of the senses or engaging the senses in service of Lord in very simple and innocent way.

It doesn’t even have to teach about fundamental laws of physics because it is said that they are all derived from Divine will and can also be affected by our own will once we manage to conquer the senses and materialistic mind. They only need to teach about one fundamental law and that is Divine will. But still they accommodate even those who are unable to grasp the

higher truths and guide them step by step so that they can eventually rise to a spiritual platform.

 

Once Lord withdraws His energies there will be no more manifested physical world nor physical laws. This is what Vedic literature teach but if one wants to artificially manipulate matter within the laws of the Lord’s Lila there is a process but this process does not bring one closer to liberation. It may even envelope the person in deeper illusion.

 

 

Even famous physicist Karl Heisenberg after experiencing samadhi concluded that physics is not important since everything is illusion.

It doesn’t even matter how material universe operates. What matters is your spiritual advancement and purification and to

achieve this you have to follow the principles one of the four yogas.

But still, correct way of doing science is only through Lord’s grace. First you must have spiritual realization and then if Lord inspires you may engage in outward activities in proper way. Science should be practiced only with right attitude and by virtuous person, and when it is done this way the results will point to existence spiritual reality, parallel dimensions, subtle universes... but still it won’t bring you closer to Vishnu unless you do your homework and renounce egoistic desires and cravings of senses.

 

In the end it is always your own battle you have to win. Nobody can renounce stupidity and selfishness and surrender to Lord for you.

Infatuation and fascination with material advancement, mental speculation and technology is great obstacle. It binds one’s consciousness to the movements of lower mechanical mind which then presents itself as ultimate reality and creates situations where not only you will commit sins but you will lose ability to repent and corrects yourself. Bhakta can make

mistake, even grave mistake but the very nature of materialistic person is sin. They are wrong in the very center of being even if they outwardly may appear virtuous. Their psychic being or soul is in the state of hibernation, unmanifested and it is exactly this manifestation and inlfuence of psychic being in mental , vital and physical human which makes difference between sura and asura.

 

This is what happens when we close your heart to God and His true pure bhaktas and instead embrace philosophy of materialistic rascals fascinated with their manipulation with material elements.

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THE VEDIC INTERPRETATION OF QUANTUM THEORYAlex Hankey PhD.United KingdomAbstractThe use of the Vedic Sciences allows a natural interpretation of quantum theory inwhich the universal understanding of the wave-function as referring to our knowledgeof the system it represents, and not the system itself, finds its natural fulfilment. Indeveloping the interpretation, specific use is made of the following: structure of Veda,including both mantra and brahmana protions of the texts, Vedanta (maya), Yoga(kaivalya) and Samkhya (mahat and triguna). Each contributes a specific, necessaryunderstanding of the nature of reality, which enables completely new physics to beproposed and justified.The Samhita of Rishi, Devata and Chhandas (the structure of Veda) is used tojustify dropping the concept of 'objective reality' from the canons of modern science.Similarly, the relationship between pure knowledge (mantra) and its organising power(brahmana) is used to as a model for the relationship between the structure of thequantum field, and the organising ability which enables it to influence the unfoldingof the reality of sensory experience and scientific measurement. Vedanta holds thatthe world of sensory experience is only an illusion, and that to treat it as having apurely objective existence is delusion, a result of being fooled by the illusion.Description of the illusion requires elements of other darshanas mentioned: Yoga isthe source of the concept of singularity needed to describe singularities underlyingfundamental laws of quantum complexity involved in processes of manifestation;Samkhya names the mahat tattwa as the supreme organising principle maintaining theworld of manifestation in a state of perfect orderliness; it also shows howmanifestation processes can only take place when there is a fundamental lack ofequilibrium – between the three gunas, sattwa, rajas and tamas, which find a closecorrespondence to the thermodynamics of manifestation.

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:xTxeL1D-1QcJ:www.metaelmelet.hu/egyelm/abs/Alex_Hankey.pdf+vedas+quantum+theory&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

 

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Who is truly practicing what Vedas teach?

We can’t even understand the true meaning of Vedic scriptures as long as mind is engulfed in tamo and rajo guna.

We are lazy when it comes to introspection, renunciation and practicing what we preach.

There are many books and religions derived from Vedas because there are many spiritual planes and different kinds of

realization. Perfection or liberation for bhakta is not same as liberation for Buddhist or advaitin. To each his own.

 

Esoteric vedanta does not have to teach about metabolism, physics and "Blackberries" because it’s goal is liberation from

material world through withdrawal of the senses or engaging the senses in service of Lord in very simple and innocent way.

It doesn’t even have to teach about fundamental laws of physics because it is said that they are all derived from Divine will and can also be affected by our own will once we manage to conquer the senses and materialistic mind. They only need to teach about one fundamental law and that is Divine will. But still they accommodate even those who are unable to grasp the

higher truths and guide them step by step so that they can eventually rise to a spiritual platform.

 

Once Lord withdraws His energies there will be no more manifested physical world nor physical laws. This is what Vedic literature teach but if one wants to artificially manipulate matter within the laws of the Lord’s Lila there is a process but this process does not bring one closer to liberation. It may even envelope the person in deeper illusion.

 

 

Even famous physicist Karl Heisenberg after experiencing samadhi concluded that physics is not important since everything is illusion.

It doesn’t even matter how material universe operates. What matters is your spiritual advancement and purification and to

achieve this you have to follow the principles one of the four yogas.

But still, correct way of doing science is only through Lord’s grace. First you must have spiritual realization and then if Lord inspires you may engage in outward activities in proper way. Science should be practiced only with right attitude and by virtuous person, and when it is done this way the results will point to existence spiritual reality, parallel dimensions, subtle universes... but still it won’t bring you closer to Vishnu unless you do your homework and renounce egoistic desires and cravings of senses.

 

In the end it is always your own battle you have to win. Nobody can renounce stupidity and selfishness and surrender to Lord for you.

Infatuation and fascination with material advancement, mental speculation and technology is great obstacle. It binds one’s consciousness to the movements of lower mechanical mind which then presents itself as ultimate reality and creates situations where not only you will commit sins but you will lose ability to repent and corrects yourself. Bhakta can make

mistake, even grave mistake but the very nature of materialistic person is sin. They are wrong in the very center of being even if they outwardly may appear virtuous. Their psychic being or soul is in the state of hibernation, unmanifested and it is exactly this manifestation and inlfuence of psychic being in mental , vital and physical human which makes difference between sura and asura.

 

This is what happens when we close your heart to God and His true pure bhaktas and instead embrace philosophy of materialistic rascals fascinated with their manipulation with material elements.

Thanks "Them", great post, good points. As Prabhupada also pointed out, modern science spents lots of money for all this research work. Like latest project, Mars, so many millions spent. And what will come out - they consider that life on Mars is only possible when our type of bodies can live there.

So what to say to the people in general who are obviously so curious to know all this, like how does Mars look like, and don't object if scientists spent so much money although the Vedas clearly teach that life on other planets happens on a different level, different types of bodies of which we have no experience on this planet.

When people write articles like below, it seems nobody will ever object and call it waste of time and money. But how to explain this to people?

 

Scientists ponder whether ice on Mars ever melted

 

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j1hvRUNc9W-3lupLU6TLQtR0gdRAD91E4K4O0Mars

By ALICIA CHANG – 13 hours ago

 

 

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The apparent discovery of ice near Mars' north pole has scientists asking: Did the frozen water melt at some point in the planet's long history to create an environment friendly for life?

The Phoenix spacecraft exposed bright white crumbs at the bottom of a trench while digging near Mars' north pole earlier this week. The bits disappeared in new photos sent back on Thursday, convincing scientists that the magic act was evidence of ice that vaporized after being exposed to the sun.

"The fact that there's ice there doesn't tell you anything about whether it's habitable," chief scientist Peter Smith of the University of Arizona said Friday during a teleconference from Tucson.

 

ALeqM5jPHbyHMMCzHduZAjO-e_UV2DLnaA?size=m

This combination of images provided by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Surface Stereo Imager on Sunday, June 15, left, and Wednesday, June 18, 2008, right, or Sols 20 and 24, shows sublimation of ice in the trench informally called "Dodo-Goldilocks" over the course of four days. In the lower left corner of the left image, a group of lumps is visible. In the right image, the lumps have disappeared. (AP Photo/NASA/JPL/CALTECH)

 

 

To judge whether the Martian polar environment could be hospitable, scientists are using the spacecraft's instruments to study minerals in the soil and ice for hints of carbonates and sulfates, which are formed by the action of liquid water.

Preliminary results from an experiment that baked a soil sample in one of Phoenix's test ovens failed to yield evidence of water. A data glitch on the lander this week prevented scientists from getting the results right away from the last testing phase.

Water is a prerequisite for life, but it's just one piece of the equation. Scientists generally agree that organic carbon and an energy source like the sun are also considered necessary ingredients.

Mars today is arid and dusty, constantly bombarded by radiation and with no apparent trace of water on its surface. But carvings of channels and gullies on the Martian surface suggest a wetter past. Some scientists speculate that water may have evaporated into the atmosphere and the rest trapped beneath the surface in the form of ice.

"The holy grail is to find water near the surface of Mars," said astrobiologist Mitch Sogin of the Marine Biological Lab in Woods Hole, Mass., who is not part of the mission.

Phoenix's latest discovery is not a total surprise. In 2002, the orbiting Mars Odyssey spacecraft spied evidence of a reservoir of frozen water near the planet's poles. Phoenix, which landed May 25, is the first robotic craft to reach out and touch it.

Scientists not involved in the mission said the Phoenix team makes a compelling case for the presence of ice.

"It's not unexpected, but finding it is different than predicting it," said Bruce Jakosky, an astrobiologist at the University of Colorado at Boulder. "Everybody expected the ice to be there. That's why Phoenix went there in the first place."

The bright chunks seen in the Martian soil vanished in images taken Thursday of a trench where they were seen four days earlier. Scientists had debated whether the chunks were salt or ice, but settled on frozen water since salt would not disappear.

"We have found the proof that we've been seeking," Smith said.

Smith said the ice, which appeared to be pure, was found 2 inches deep in the trench.

Digging in another trench, Phoenix hit a hard surface believed to be an icy layer, which will also be tested.

The big question is whether the ice ever melted and remained stable long enough as a liquid.

"If so, one of the requirements is satisfied for life as we know it," said Kenneth Nealson, a geobiologist at the University of Southern California, who had no role in the mission.

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The Vedas are religious texts dealing with Gods, prayers and procedures for social life and rituals in a primitive society - most of which has been obsolete for a long time. They were not dealing with science and math. They were certainly not dealing with 803.11 protocols or nano-technology as some gentleman seems to think above. They did not deal with gravitation for ffice:smarttags" />Abhay Ashtekar is about to prove by combining relativity theory and quantum mechanics that before this universe was created there was another universe.
Not possible as each retain Planck’s constant ‘h’ or even dirac’s h bar.<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

 

In other words, Abhay Ashtekar is trying to translate vedic parameters into modern scientific understanding. But as you see, as soon someone like Abhay Ashtekar is on the way to translate vedic knowledge into modern science, he immediately has a whole gang of "friends", "helping" him to get the job done
Of course, there’s money in numbers as well the majority on earth want to have reality into math (universal language) rather than faith (words of men).

It’s a common psychosis and most of religious leadership just can’t realize, the truth of that fact.

You can see it in their words

Esoteric vedanta does not have to teach about metabolism, physics and "Blackberries" because it’s goal is liberation from

material world through withdrawal of the senses

But you will take your wife to the hospice to bare your child, correct? As well immunizations and even watch the pretty picture of mars landings……… why? Because that unknown knowledge is sought and supported and with this integrity; the children will know the truth; with or without the religious leaders
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Not possible as each retain Planck’s constant ‘h’ or even dirac’s h bar.

Of course, there’s money in numbers as well the majority on earth want to have reality into math (universal language) rather than faith (words of men).

It’s a common psychosis and most of religious leadership just can’t realize, the truth of that fact.

You can see it in their words But you will take your wife to the hospice to bare your child, correct? As well immunizations and even watch the pretty picture of mars landings……… why? Because that unknown knowledge is sought and supported and with this integrity; the children will know the truth; with or without the religious leaders

 

 

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I don’t have children but I do have extremely negative experiences with western medicine . Great part of childhood I spent at hospitals due to my mother’s constant concerns and her trust in western medicine. I was misdiagnosed in probably nine out of ten cases. The irony is that in the end I got rid of most of my problems by simply changing diet, taking ayurvedic praparations and practicing yoga.

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Western treatments were in many cases worse then disease itself.

I do not condemn people who put their faith in western medicine in extreme conditions but personaly in last 20 years I avoided western tamasic methods of treatment. As a matter of fact it's not the method itself as much as the approach. Some of the methods would work just fine if they could realize that human beings are more then physical bodies and that disease first manifests in subtle body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We (humanity ) created this problems and cannot simply escape individually but there is more and more evidence every day that invasive purely reductionistic approach is not much better then disease they attempt to cure. I predict that in the end they will be forced to abandon their mechanical model and integrate Vedic integral approach in which human being is seen not as body only but as conglomerate of different koshas.

When your time comes, when your mission here is done or when you need new physical vehicle you’ll die and it’s better to learn to accept this instead of artificialy prolonging material existence. In some cases when person leads sinful life it is better to leave the body and stop accumulating negative karma.

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Just for illustration I’ll give one real life example .

During Kundalini awakening I received through inner vision information about death of my friend’s mother. She was perfectly healthy at the time but soon she suddenly got ill and nobody was able to make diagnosis.

Nobody knew what was happening with her. They said to my friend that her mother seems to be fine and she should recover .

Several days after she called me in tears. Her mother died.

I knew she was going to die beacuse her psychic being contacted me and told me that it is her time to leave this world and there ‘s nothing anyone can do to prevent it.

Therefore , with no knowledge of medicine only through sadhana I was able to get accurate information and this was just one of many extraordinary experiences which occured during yoga sadhana. Acatually, some of the phenomena that occured during Kundalini awakening was so spectacular that it could be recreated only with help of "Star Trek" technology and yet I don't even call these experiences spiritual in true sense.

That is why I claim that modern science is degradation of original spiritual science. We are advanced compared to middle- ages but those who were blessed with only glimpse of Vedic knowledge through genuine spiritual experience already know what none of the most educated world’s scientists can even imagine.

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However, if we create healthy environment according to Vedic principles many serious physical and psychological diseases we face today will vanish. Once humanity embraces higher principles of life as guide western reductionistic medicine will become obsolete.

But what we did instead was creating unhealthy materialistic environment in which not only physical kosha is under constant attack but also subtle phsysical and mental.

Such conditions are responsible for serious health problems and then the very mentality ressponsible for creating such atmosphere will say “ look, we have a cure , if you don’t obey us and accept our methods you’ll die” thus making us their slaves.

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<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--><!--[endif]--> Regarding Mars expeditions I’m not impressed at all nor do I believe in everything they present as real photos from Mars but the point is you don’t have to build expensive machinery to see what’s going on on other planets You have to step out of body consciousness and only then you ‘ll be able to see what physical eyes or instruments never will.

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If you surrender yourself to Krishna and practice sadhana sincerely you will be blessed by revelations far more spcectacular then photos of rocky landscape and you will also get feedback to confirm it was not only in your imagination.

I'm not talking about symbolic sadhana but rigorous discipline and renunciation. Unwavering faith and devotion, complete disregard for material comforts and "pleasures of the flesh". Then after you experience spiritual dimension you will never again call Vedas primitive and obsolete.

Vedic knowledge is suported by experience of thousands of practicioners and mystics. It is not supported but materialistic ignorants beacuse they are not even capable of observing the essential regulative principles.

 

We sholud never forget that it is impossible to understand Veda without initiation in sacred knowledge and without sadhana.

Otherwise all you will get from reading Vedic scriptures is some nice poetry and descriptions of obscure rituals meant for karmis. Only to initiated sincere sadhaka the true meaning of Veda will be revealed. If one is not willing to make that leap then the true meaning will remain hidden forever.

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I don’t have children but I do have extremely negative experiences with western medicine . Great part of childhood I spent at hospitals due to my mother’s constant concerns and her trust in western medicine. I was misdiagnosed in probably nine out of ten cases.
first, it seems you had a few unique experiences and glad to read your doing fine now but without details on the medical aspects, who can comment intelligently.

 

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Western treatments were in many cases worse then disease itself.

I do not condemn people who put their faith in western medicine in extreme conditions but personaly in last 20 years I avoided western tamasic methods of treatment.

Tamas is Hindu/Buddha way of thinking... maybe shed a little light on this

 

 

As a matter of fact it's not the method itself as much as the approach.
Almost like a western Krsna... in which half the time is spend learning a new language to define terms.

 

The rest of the post was quite sad to observe.

 

With compassion there is a plea for your attention in seeking more knowledge and find how much medicine offers quality improvements to assisting the continuance of life.

 

Right now in India, monsoon floads will infict enormous disease and death; we can both be sure the people who come to assist, are not relying on faith to assist the people; they will be using educated men and women who contribute their time, energy and compassion; for to provide medical assistance.

 

For them who wish no assistance, please send your kids out to be picked up and stay and pray all you wish; we'll take care of the children!

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first, it seems you had a few unique experiences and glad to read your doing fine now but without details on the medical aspects, who can comment intelligently.

 

Tamas is Hindu/Buddha way of thinking... maybe shed a little light on this

 

Almost like a western Krsna... in which half the time is spend learning a new language to define terms.

 

The rest of the post was quite sad to observe.

 

With compassion there is a plea for your attention in seeking more knowledge and find how much medicine offers quality improvements to assisting the continuance of life.

 

Right now in India, monsoon floads will infict enormous disease and death; we can both be sure the people who come to assist, are not relying on faith to assist the people; they will be using educated men and women who contribute their time, energy and compassion; for to provide medical assistance.

 

For them who wish no assistance, please send your kids out to be picked up and stay and pray all you wish; we'll take care of the children!

 

English is not my first language and Veda is extremely complex subject.

Without some basic knowledge of Sanskrit terms it is impossbile to grasp the meaning.

Terms such as Brahman, Caitya Purusha , tamas are not purely philosophical. They correspond to particular states of being, even planes of existence which must be experienced first through witnessing consciousness.

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General definitition of Tamas is state of inertia but to understand what tamas really is you must also experience it’s opposite Satva. Then you will have complete picture . Tamas is among other things state of ignorance and inertia generated by identifying one’s consciousness with body. Perceiveing oneself as body contemplating on gross physical. Reductionism is tamasic world view but that’s just one example. Tamas can also manifest on pre-rational subtle planes but it's main characteristic is dark inert egoistic consciousness.

 

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The very reason why people need invasive medicine and treatments is global materialistic consciousness. By losing direct contact with Supreme humanity becomes vulenrable to hostile tamasic forces which first affect subtle physical sheath and then manifests in gross physical as disease.

When humanity embraces Vedic principles in the same way it now embraces materialism (religious people are often just as materialistic and tamasic as atheists) then you will see the change and nature will respond.

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I’m deffinitely not as compassionate as I should be but I spent my youth during war in my country volunteering at hospitals, psyche wards, with refugees and patients suffering from treminal diseases.

When few of us sadhakas came to hospital warden to ask him how we can help he admitted how much he admires our courage beacuse he did not dare to go to the places where we were about to spent many years.

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Dying person told us that when nurses come to give him medicine he feels their fear and disgust , they were afraid of him, he reminded them of inevitable death, ugliness of death and dying. He also had negative experiences with some Protestant volunteers who only tried to convert him but whan he rejected their faith they all left.

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Days before he died he told us that when we came , when bhaktas came he felt as if he was engulfed in light because we recognized him as spiritual being not as some broken body condemned to death and nothingness.

We spent years doing seva, practiticing sadhana, following regulative principles ,observing celibacy... Severe discipline.

Yes , compassion in action but who is acting, who is serving?

The Lord is one who is using you as instrumens. That ‘s proper attitude for sadhaka.

When you understand this then you will be able to offer some real service.

However, atheists should engage in service too but they will not be able to serve as channel for this Light and Grace as long as they perceive human being as body and nothing more .This attitude is offensive and every distressed being intuitively feels this.

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If you are in India then go and help those people suffering from monsoon floods , if you are in USA I’m sure you can still find some place where you can offer your service.

I’m doing what I can in my country but when I move to India in the future I will enagge in service there as well but I’ll try to do it with proper attitude.

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If I was physician I would never refuse to treat patients even with tamasic medicine but I would tell them about all possible alternatives and suggest them to consider changing their lifestyle, their diets , practicing some meditation but most of all establishing contact with Lord and developing detachment from body. through selfless service or seva.

If they choose the other way so be it. I would not interfere with their choice.

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But when we speak of quality of life we must first define what life is and what is purpose of life .

For reductionist quality of physical life, life of sense gratification which has no purpose outside of it’s limited material movements is all that matters.

For spiritualist quality of life means quality of consciousness, spiritual evolution of consciousness.

Even if you cure the body what are you going to do with this body , this vehicle? Engage in sense gratficication and accumulation of negative karma which will eventualy produce new disease in new vehicle , new birth , new death as so on .

This is perspective of Vedanta and if you have hard time understanding this it is only because you never made sincere effort to find out what it is all about.

Once you make an effort you will find out that what Vedas teach is beneficial for every human being.

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Now you’re rejecting it just as I did when I first read Bhagavata. My main influences were skeptics such as Sagan and Clarke and I thought it was all load of typical mumbo-jumbo religious garbage and I wasn’t really politicaly correct in expressing my opinion in public. But fortunately I was wrong.

Sometimes you just have to accept you are wrong and foolish and motivated by prejudices instead of knowledge. Ego is always terrified when this imaginary world it built for so many years suddenly crumbles but that’s begining of wisdom and is nothing to be ashamed of.

This destructive process will last until the last trace of materialistic egoic consciousness is eliminated.

Vedanta is very logical and if you approach it with sincere attitude and put this teachings into practice you willl realize that it is not dogmatic at all.

Once the requirements are met you will have the evidence you need.

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If you have problems with ISKCON translations of scriptures ( I did in the begining) I recommend ( you can find many sites with this free online ebook) Sri Aurobindo’s “Synthesis of Yoga”.

He presented scriptures in a way more suited to western intelectuals even though he considered poem Savitri as his true spiritual masterwork.

After reading this you will have much better insight into ancient spiritual practices.

It is not an easy read, it requires great patience and concentration but if you give it a try you will learn a lot about different types of yoga.

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But still, correct way of doing science is only through Lord’s grace. First you must have spiritual realization and then if Lord inspires you may engage in outward activities in proper way. Science should be practiced only with right attitude and by virtuous person, and when it is done this way the results will point to existence spiritual reality, parallel dimensions, subtle universes... but still it won’t bring you closer to Vishnu unless you do your homework and renounce egoistic desires and cravings of senses. posted by them

 

really nice posting...thx

 

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If you have problems with ISKCON translations of scriptures ( I did in the begining) I recommend ( you can find many sites with this free online ebook) Sri Aurobindo’s “Synthesis of Yoga”.

He presented scriptures in a way more suited to western intelectuals even though he considered poem Savitri as his true spiritual masterwork.

After reading this you will have much better insight into ancient spiritual practices.

It is not an easy read, it requires great patience and concentration but if you give it a try you will learn a lot about different types of yoga. posted by them

<embed src="http://documents.scribd.com/ScribdViewer.swf?document_id=3206159&access_key=key-281sl5zpcdl50624pt37&page=&version=1&auto_size=true" quality="high" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" play="true" loop="true" scale="showall" wmode="opaque" devicefont="false" bgcolor="#ffffff" name="doc_16860695474585_object" menu="true" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" salign="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%" align="middle" height="500">

 

 

Read this document on Scribd: the syntesis of yoga

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English is not my first language and Veda is extremely complex subject.
Lots of sutra; words for complex meaning.

 

Without some basic knowledge of Sanskrit terms it is impossible to grasp the meaning.
I personally disagree as it then means in order to ‘comprehend’ then each must accept a specific language as final. There is only one language universal to all land; math!

 

Terms such as Brahman, Caitya Purusha , tamas are not purely philosophical. They correspond to particular states of being, even planes of existence which must be experienced first through witnessing consciousness.
Yet these experiences are universal and the words you suggest to not include the definitions required to answer all of the questions.

Meaning to be responsible each must have grounds of understanding, to even know what they submit (themselves).

 

Tamas is among other things state of ignorance and inertia generated by identifying one’s consciousness with body.
Seems like your definition is the ‘experience’ of life as each person does, upon birth.
Perceiveing oneself as body contemplating on gross physical.
Yep… the child sees his own hand. Begin to experience life; existence of self. We should welcome this at first and then teach how important they are to existence.

Let’s see

In Hinduism and Buddhism, Tamas, or tamo-guna, is the lowest of the three gunas. It is a force which promotes one or more of the following: (1) darkness, (2) death, (3) destruction, (4) ignorance, (5) sloth, (6) resistance.
Seems correct: ‘self isolates mind from existence.’

Where I am going with this is the defining form you are using is conveying that ignorance is normal; an I agree; but that is what knowledge corrects.

For each to maintain the precept that we are not capable of comprehending existence is a selfish precept invoked by ignorant teachers. It is this isolation from existence that creates this selfish approach to experiencing life.

 

The very reason why people need invasive medicine and treatments is global materialistic consciousness. By losing direct contact with Supreme humanity becomes vulenrable to hostile tamasic forces which first affect subtle physical sheath and then manifests in gross physical as disease.

This is exactly what religions do to the minds of millions; some actually suggest God is on a thrown turning wrenches and these isolation from existence are what cause beliefs to impose unnaturally to existence; ie…. Nature eats meat.

As well ignorance of health causes the crisis to further perpetuate. Nostradamus was the single greatest contributor to slow and stop the spread of the plague simply by teaching people to keep themselves, their homes and surroundings clean.

But when we speak of quality of life we must first define what life is and what is purpose of life .

For reductionist quality of physical life, life of sense gratification which has no purpose outside of it’s limited material movements is all that matters.

For spiritualist quality of life means quality of consciousness, spiritual evolution of consciousness.

Even if you cure the body what are you going to do with this body , this vehicle? Engage in sense gratficication and accumulation of negative karma which will eventualy produce new disease in new vehicle , new birth , new death as so on .

The question I have is; if the reductionist is seeking material things for the self, then isn’t seeking selfish pursuits of that personal conscious experience, the same thing?

Meaning if you have that knowledge to comprehend; then isn’t the duty of body and choice to contribute that knowledge to existence?

 

since the rest of the post is talking about how much better you are than I as well defining me as being less than your experience, when it seems, the material you are suggesting is older than dirt, when today, that material can be observed as children and combined with real knowledge about what that dirt is.

Since each child opens their eyes wondering who’s hand this is, perhaps it is best they comprehend how they choose to best use that hand; and you can go on thinking that hand has no importance nor capable of actually being understood.

Again…. Not my choice!

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Lots of sutra; words for complex meaning.

 

I personally disagree as it then means in order to ‘comprehend’ then each must accept a specific language as final. There is only one language universal to all land; math!

 

Yet these experiences are universal and the words you suggest to not include the definitions required to answer all of the questions.

Meaning to be responsible each must have grounds of understanding, to even know what they submit (themselves).

Seems like your definition is the ‘experience’ of life as each person does, upon birth. Yep… the child sees his own hand. Begin to experience life; existence of self. We should welcome this at first and then teach how important they are to existence.

Let’s see Seems correct: ‘self isolates mind from existence.’

Where I am going with this is the defining form you are using is conveying that ignorance is normal; an I agree; but that is what knowledge corrects.

For each to maintain the precept that we are not capable of comprehending existence is a selfish precept invoked by ignorant teachers. It is this isolation from existence that creates this selfish approach to experiencing life.

This is exactly what religions do to the minds of millions; some actually suggest God is on a thrown turning wrenches and these isolation from existence are what cause beliefs to impose unnaturally to existence; ie…. Nature eats meat.

As well ignorance of health causes the crisis to further perpetuate. Nostradamus was the single greatest contributor to slow and stop the spread of the plague simply by teaching people to keep themselves, their homes and surroundings clean.

The question I have is; if the reductionist is seeking material things for the self, then isn’t seeking selfish pursuits of that personal conscious experience, the same thing?

Meaning if you have that knowledge to comprehend; then isn’t the duty of body and choice to contribute that knowledge to existence?

 

since the rest of the post is talking about how much better you are than I as well defining me as being less than your experience, when it seems, the material you are suggesting is older than dirt, when today, that material can be observed as children and combined with real knowledge about what that dirt is.

Since each child opens their eyes wondering who’s hand this is, perhaps it is best they comprehend how they choose to best use that hand; and you can go on thinking that hand has no importance nor capable of actually being understood.

Again…. Not my choice!

 

 

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Awarenes of the body is not the same as identifying with body as sole reality. No one is denying reality of physical consciousness but one should not live from the physical consiousness believing it is ultimate reality and foundation of consciousness.

 

 

 

 

From the Vedic perspective physical is emergent property of spiritual and the “manual” for this physical vehicle was written on spiritual plane.

 

 

 

Firsr realize this Self and then you'll understand what selfishness really is.

 

 

 

There are many more subtle manifestation of this tamasic selfishness then you are aware of now. It goes deep into unconsicouss to the very roots of separate egoic existence. It is not even philosophical question. It will hit you like sledge hammer when you enter this realm for the first time and face your "doppelganger".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Religions can have tamasic elements as well.

 

 

 

 

Some tantric practices are tamasic, there are elements of lowest guna in Abrahamic religions but that’s another topic.

 

 

 

 

I don’t remember anybody using child’s state of consciousness as example of tamasic consciousness. In Integral philopsohy it is considered to be state of purified vital energy and it was deffinitely my experience but it also depends on your previous incarnations . I’ve had many experiences of subtle plane including OBE during childhood and only after I went through communist indoctrination I felt drawn toward lower states of consciousness but never completely.

 

 

 

 

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There are people who has direct experience and knowledge of spiritual planes and you should learn from them. This is Vedic approach. Inquiring and learning from more experienced sadhaka is proper way.

 

 

 

 

You’ve come to spiritual discussion Audarya forum without any knowledge of Vedas and Vedanta. Subject on which many scholars spend their whole lives only to sctratch the sufrace and then when somebody suggests that you should first learn some basics you object.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It doesn’t really matter whether you believe or not at this moment since you don’t even know what is it that you don’t believe in. First devote some time tu study of Vedanta, learn some Sanskrit terms and then if you choose to reject it you’ll at least have an idea what are you rejecting.

 

 

 

 

 

When I read some Vedic scripture first I compare different translations, read Sanskrit transliterations, compare different commentaries, contemplate on meaning of particular verse and meditate.

 

 

 

 

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Sanskrit terms are extremely diffcult to translate. How can I translate Savikalpa Samadhi or Caitya Puruhsa. to a person who has no experience of these states of being. We are talking about extraordinary experiences which come after many years, perhaps many lives of sadhana and purification.

 

 

 

 

It is not something you realize just by reading a books and speculating but you have to start somewhere. In Bhagavata Dharma path you first humbly approach spiritual authorities, you study scriptures and practice sadhana under their guidance and patiently wait for spiritual revelation.

 

 

I know , "humbly" doesn't resonate well with atheist but it is absolutely essential. It is the risk you'll have to accept.

 

Now you are just putting everything in the same “religious freaks” box which is typical behaviour of forum atheists nowadays.

 

 

I have friend who is very interested in science, his knowledge of material sciences surpasses mine by far and not only mine but he is not reductionist. We spent many hours discussing not only Vedic cosmology but also such “esoteric” subjects as astrophysics. Among our favorite subjects are Chernobyl incident, radioactive isotopes, functioning of nuclears reactors. That’s his field and I wouldn’t have anything to say on the subjects if I never made an effort and read hundreds of pages of material.

 

 

 

 

 

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Therefore if you want to discuss Vedanta from philosophical standpoint read at least this excellent book Bija posted for you. There's no need to respond to a post before reading. I'm not capable of presenting Vedanta in such intelectually intriguing and convincing way as Sri Aurobindo. You will benefit more from reading this book then debating with me because It's not easy for me to formulate my thoughts in foreign language. There's no point in agreeing or disagreeing before you've done your homework.

 

 

 

 

After reading come back and then you'll have much better understanding of the things you may read on this forum and also of the people who engage in spiritual practices insipred by Vedanta.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But if you want to understand esoteric aspect then you will have to practice sadhana and follow regulative principles. This is the essential part of "spiritual experiment" every serious sadhaka must conduct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->If you don’t wan’t anything of this then you should simply ignore “delusional believers” or if you want to criticize you should at least pick some religion you are familiar with, but even the most prominent atheist authors focus only on social aspects of religions never making an effort to find out what lies at the mystical roots of every spiritual path and this is where things start to get really interesting.

 

 

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Awarenes of the body is not the same as identifying with body as sole reality.

But reality begins with seeing yourself; not believing what someone else says about you.

 

From the Vedic perspective physical is emergent property of spiritual and the “manual” for this physical vehicle was written on spiritual plane.
But spiritual is not for imposing oppressive nature or to incorporate inequities of knowledge too defeat common sense.

 

Firsr realize this Self and then you'll understand what selfishness really is.
Ah…. Now your talking. So what is self? What are you? Why are you experiencing what you see? What is LIFE? So before trying to share what all this other stuff of faith is, be sure you comprehend these question in pure form, not magical beliefs.

 

There are many more subtle manifestation of this tamasic selfishness then you are aware of now. It goes deep into unconsicouss to the very roots of separate egoic existence.
Children are not born with an ego; so that ego is developed; not something to suppress but to understand. The ego is born when a person is taught that they are isolated from existence; that they are not responsible for their actions.

 

I don’t remember anybody using child’s state of consciousness as example of tamasic consciousness. In Integral philopsohy it is considered to be state of purified vital energy and it was deffinitely my experience but it also depends on your previous incarnations .
What previous incarnations? You are now going to magic and beliefs rather than reality to answer what you apparently do not comprehend but your faith shares and you believe. That idea you are sharing is how people begin to think they are not responsible for what they do; "it was my previous incarnation" Oh brother!

 

I’ve had many experiences of subtle plane including OBE during childhood and only after I went through communist indoctrination
OKey dokey…. And I was baptized and confirmed as a child; and your point is? Perhaps you are now a believer of magic instead of retaining integrity and honesty to real existence.

 

There are people who has direct experience and knowledge of spiritual planes and you should learn from them. This is Vedic approach. Inquiring and learning from more experienced sadhaka is proper way.
And how long have these people been on earth? Did one of them ever bring in world peace and offer the base knowledge to combine mankind?

NO, they have not! Why? Because many have awaken from the sleep of beliefs!

 

You’ve come to spiritual discussion Audarya forum without any knowledge of Vedas and Vedanta.
Oooops ….. there goes the go go ego….. you making an assumption. How about I mention in the mid 80’s that from Zoraster to tao, to vedic, Upanishads and Buddhism was studied in silence and under candle light for the single purpose of humble observance to the contributors was invoked; simply of integrity prior to making an assumptions on my part as the any differences of compassion between people.

 

Subject on which many scholars spend their whole lives only to sctratch the sufrace and then when somebody suggests that you should first learn some basics you object.
Objection; nothing is omnipotent; no man can walk on water; no man is perfect; knowledge was incomplete; and religions are for the complacent.

Beliefs are for the lazy; understanding is for Peace! Some are doers and some are talkers.

It doesn’t really matter whether you believe or not at this moment since you don’t even know what is it that you don’t believe in.
Go go ego……..

What is life? Can you share what the mechanism is that allows inanimate matter to begin life? Can you share why an autistic child has a living body but is not conscious?

 

First devote some time tu study of Vedanta, learn some Sanskrit terms and then if you choose to reject it you’ll at least have an idea what are you rejecting.
No faith in magic. Does not exist!

 

I know , "humbly" doesn't resonate well with atheist but it is absolutely essential. It is the risk you'll have to accept.
Just like risking your integrity with conveyance of knowledge contradicting God (Vishnu) by wading in ego all the while maintaining beliefs in ritualistic contraptions simply to maintain faith; simply because of self, rather than any consideration for the future; the children.

Please old timer; move over, your abuse of mind and the word humble is starting to make me sick.

Now you are just putting everything in the same “religious freaks” box which is typical behaviour of forum atheists nowadays.
Again, the striking of swords…….

 

I have friend who is very interested in science, his knowledge of material sciences surpasses mine by far and not only mine but he is not reductionist. We spent many hours discussing not only Vedic cosmology but also such “esoteric” subjects as astrophysics. Among our favorite subjects are
ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comaudarya<st1:City><st1:place>Chernobyl</st1:place></st1:City> incident, radioactive isotopes, functioning of nuclears reactors. That’s his field and I wouldn’t have anything to say on the subjects if I never made an effort and read hundreds of pages of material.
Bring him onto the forum and let’s see how much he can contribute for tomorrow, rather than this forum having to read the retention of faith as the guide to mankind’s future

 

If you don’t wan’t anything of this then you should simply ignore “delusional believers”
No care for the delusional old timers but for the new minds; they are here as well as everywhere and since nothing is for me, then for any who read.

No matter how much another may wish to discredit the truth; nothing can stop the seeds from growing. Perhaps if absolute integrity to the truth and reality was the first premise of your daily life, then maybe rather than discredit, maybe read a little on you own, in the closet under candle light and then use your faith, to combine what is good; not for you, but for tomorrow.

Try thinking of others over your self for a day and know humility in the true form of compassion.

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I can't adress all your points , post is already too long and I doub't you're going to read half of it anyway but if you want we can always continue on PM.

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Oooops ….. there goes the go go ego….. you making an assumption. How about I mention in the mid 80’s that from Zoraster to tao, to vedic, Upanishads and Buddhism was studied in silence and under candle light for the single purpose of humble observance to the contributors was invoked; simply of integrity prior to making an assumptions on my part as the any differences of compassion between people.

Even though english is not my native language I have no problem understanding other forum posters but some of your posts are very incoherent and confusing and I’m having problems deciphering the meaning.

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So you’ve studied Vedanta?

What went wrong man?

I know that you know that you never gave your best.

If you had you won’t be here today defending reducionistic world view.

Too much reading without practice I presume but you should at least be familiar with some essential Sanskrit terms.

I’ve seen this often in new-agers who believe that little watered down overly intelecualized “eastern wisdom” without following regulative principles , without bhakti, renunciation, surrender and passion for the truth will make them spiritual and “wise in the ways of the Force)”.

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And then after failing to realize beautifull esoteric truths of Vedanta they become bitter. It creates the most resilient kind of ignorance.

They often turn into hardcore skeptics and debunkers, those who embrace “the illusion of knowledge” as Alan Wallace use to say.

Sincere simple ignorance is at least innocent and open to the new discoveries but intelectualized ignorance does not admit any new transformative experience.

Unfortunately many westerners are satisfied with little intelectual illumination and nothing beyond that but that’s probably beacuse that “beyond” demmands much more dynamic approach.

Beliefs are for the lazy; understanding is for Peace! Some are doers and some are talkers.

I agree with the last part but are you really the doer?

Belief or trust can be intuitive, prerequisite for action which in the end gives you the evidence, it doesn't have to be blind or dogmatic.

Are you really, as Mahatma Gandhi used to say, “change you wish to see in the world” or are you waiting for somebody else to do the “dirty work”?

If I tell what you should have been doing and what many of my fellow bhaktas were doing as part of their sadhana I’m afraid wou will again accuse me for “holier then thou” attitude but nevertehelss I will adress this later in the post.

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You seem to confuse me with average Christian literalist believer who simply accepts what is written in scriptures without attempting to find some evidence for existence of spiritual realm.

While I admit I don’t have evidence for everything written in Vedas and I don’t think anybody does but what I’ve experienced was in accordance with Vedanta and thus logical conclusion is that there is a very good chance that other things are true also.

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In my case it is not matter of believing. I've had many extraordinary spiritual experiences during Kundalini awakening and when discussing the subjects I'm not in search for an answer to the question whether spiritual or supernatural exist or not.

Better question would be which part of it is pre-rational and which supra-rational and how they relate to our physical existence but they are both real.

Do these experiences answer all our questions about meaning of life, nature of God , nature of reality. No, but they give you much broader frame of reference when dealing with essentials.

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But when it comes to attempts to somehow prove reality of spiritual dimension to a skeptic I am faced with frustrating obstacles.

Since I experienced it and was even fortunate in some cases to have witnesses who were able to provide feedback and confirmed it I did not feel the need to intelectually process this experience and make it philosophically plasusible for every intelectual I encounter.

If it happened to scientists they would probably want to integrate new experiences into their lives in intelectualy more coherent way but I think you will be able to follow and understand my points unless you simply don't want to but then there is no point in continuing this discussion.

It may be all reduced to «You lie and I don't believe the word you said»

Actually I would almost prefer this since otherwise I would have to write 175 pages of explanations and I would rather do some other things.

However I don't think this topic should turn into long back -and--forth debate between two members so if you want to continue this discussion until you're convinced or in other words until we both die of old age just send me PM.

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When Gopi Krishna was asked why does he focus mostly on psychological aspects of Kundalini process he said that if he wrote about other “paranormal” things he would lose all credibility.

I used to write about it but now I’m hesitant and I understand why Gopi Krishna and Sri Aurobindo avoided directly adressing the subject in their mainstream books. In the end only people who would believe you are closest friends who know that you wouldn’ invent such stories.

On internet forums such claims provoke stir among skeptics and disbelieve even among sincere sasdhkakas.

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<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--><!--[endif]--> So what you call “magic” is not really something out of LOTR but it is neverthelses real. It does not feel “magical” at all.

It feels like natural extension of this plane.

Imagine two-dimensional being walking down the street when suddenly three- dimensional being appears and disappears before him. He would believed he just witnessed the miracle but for three-dimensional being it is just everyday reality.

Now, human being is multidimensional.

We all actually experienced something of these higher dimensions but we can’t recall it. To bring these experiences in their fullness into memory is impossible due to limitations of 3D mind but we can recall symbolic representation of the experience. To access this state in it’s totality sadhaka must be able to withdraw not only outer but also inner senses. Those who operate during normal mental processes , imagination, visualisation, dreams ...

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Untrained person lacking psychic sensibility would in this case experience complete darkness, void without any content but experienced meditator would enter into realm of super- consciousnes or samadhi.

Should I mention Michio Kaku, String Theory and ten-dimensional reality?

Thinking about it gives me a headache but this controversial theory may revolutionize the science. I already have the evidence that supports it and there are many people out there who also experienced higher dimensions. It is really nothing new , it is ancient knowledge translated into new language of science but poetic presentation is actually closer to the true nature of some of these realms.

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Even among top four exponents of New Atheism movement you have one Sam Harris who is still practicing Buddhistic meditation and who believes there is some good evidence for reincarnation and existence of extradimensional beings and Dan Dennet who is practicioner of Maharishi’s Transcendental Meditation which is I believe technique based on Vedic bija root mantras. So even these hardcore atheists are drawn toward some aspects eastern mysticism and to you it is nothing but “old dirt”.

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Try thinking of others over your self for a day and know humility in the true form of compassion.

 

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I don’t really understand where did you get impression that I just talk the talk and think only about myself. I guess I must have really provoked you with something and now you desperately want me to be some “egocentric hypocrite believer” so that you don’t have to take the things I say seriously.

 

And how long have these people been on earth? Did one of them ever bring in world peace and offer the base knowledge to combine mankind?

NO, they have not! Why? Because many have awaken from the sleep of beliefs!

 

How can they bring this precious “peace” to you when you reject the very source of this peace.

The peace most people talk about is in reality only status quo which enables them to pursue their materialistic goals.

Krishna,Sri Caitantya ,Valalar, Sri Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. Ramana Maharishi, Sri Aurobindo... All these spiritual figures, exponents of various spiritual patsh gave humanity all they need to lead peacefull life not life of sense gratificiation, not life of the pigs, not even just intellectually refined life.

They gave us all we need to transform our lives not only as individuals but as the species and how many of us are using this knowledege?

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How is Sri Caitanya responsible for our wars?

What were the bhaktas doing during war in my country while materialistic carnivorous fools, were raping , pillaging and killing even women and children in our cities.

They took care of refugees, of old and sick, feeding them , bathing them, comforting them. During the whole war.

Bhaktas shone when conditions were the worst. They gave the example , they begged people to stop slaughtering and devoruing animals, stop consuming alcholol.. stop with godless sinful activities... They did it for years and warned the people about such sinful activites which will result in wars, in bloodshed but nobody listened.

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What else could they do. It is easy complaining form high intelectual platform, “but they still have ego, they’re not perfect yet.” Of course they are not but compared to inert materialistic, hedonistic greedy population of this planet they are blessing.

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You think all those peple were doing it out of boredom or so that they could feel better when they look at the mirror.

What really happened is that those who came with such ideas left after first visit. With such motivation you will never endure under extreme conditions.

When they saw piss, shit and blood they ran away never to come back. One of them told me that he just couldn’t enjoy his life anymore after being in contact with so much misery and he eventually gave up but few of us remained during seven years.

But let me tell you something. I believe there are some atheists out there who are doing some good works and serving in such places but during our years there I haven’t met single one.

It was only Christians and followers of Sanathana Dharma.

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It may not be for everyone, some are simply to sensitive to engage in such work but every intelectualy inclined person who thinks that spirituality is mere mental gymnastics should go through at least one year of seva.

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I cannot stress enough how important this is and for some reason it is seldom integrated into spiritual practice. There are too many dry inteteletuals in spiritual movements today who believe that spirituality consists of reading tons of books, inventing new fancy terms and doing “Zen meditation” or hatha yoga for half hour a day.

Young people would particulary benefit from such service.

You think every bhakta is not aware already that they could give more and serve more? This is main motivaton for every sadhaka but I’m telling you that many of them have done and are still doing tremendous work.

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Hari Bol Them,

 

Your postings are the most enlivening thing I have read.

 

You should re-write them and re-post them later --for just 'great reading'.

 

Space out your sentences, and in narrow columns.

 

Aslo, edit out references to Bishadi's statements--and then you'll have a very nice 'essay'.

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

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I can't adress all your points , post is already too long and I doub't you're going to read half of it anyway but if you want we can always continue on PM.<?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>
What may be ‘too long’ to a predetermined mind, is actually far to short, for a seeking mind.

Perhaps read as if you care. Maybe consider the material true until real compassion is proven non existence.

The difference in basis appears that one side is religious without knowing and maintains belief in the stead of applicable understanding. For example; diversity is appreciated but since any person can read and follow a faith, since it is old and only but a few have access to what herein is being presented, then let’s assume, the words and definitions you share have already been observed and what you are reading is new to the globe, from the source (per se) (existence is the source, I just tap keys) ..

This thread is on ‘why ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comP><P><FONT size=3><FONT face=

So you’ve studied Vedanta?<u1:p></u1:p>
Most all faiths, and even the little branches of the big ones i.e… Hindu-Krsna

What went wrong man?<u1:p></u1:p>
Realized how foolish believing is, when reality shares the ignorance of complacency.

 

I know that you know that you never gave your best.

<u1:p></u1:p>If you had you won’t be here today defending reducionistic world view.<u1:p></u1:p>

Over 25+ years of devotion to existence; while believers of faith maintain secularizing (reductionist) mentality. (Lose the labeling format)

 

Too much reading without practice I presume but you should at least be familiar with some essential Sanskrit terms.<u1:p></u1:p>
Funny how reality allows the spiritual aspects to be understood in the physical comprehension; so this shares in truth, that believers cannot really apply to ‘practice’ but simply to learned forms of belief. Big difference!

What this is sharing, that religions have lost the meanings of application. Each can expose and share properties of the truth but that’s about it as they usually retain the requisite of phenomenon to define the absolute.

 

I agree with the last part but are you really the doer?
There are stories all over the world about such a commitment seems maybe you might wish to read a bit more.

 

You seem to confuse me with average Christian literalist believer who simply accepts what is written in scriptures without attempting to find some evidence for existence of spiritual realm
Maybe take a peak at the real world, in the stead of magical acceptance; there is so much available from all over the world; enjoy what (god) existence has provided and evolve.

 

Do these experiences answer all our questions about meaning of life, nature of God , nature of reality. No, but they give you much broader frame of reference when dealing with essentials.<u1:p></u1:p>

Here we stop. If the meaning of life and understanding God is not the absolute quest, then there is nothing further we have to discuss.

There is no other commitment! Either do, or don’t…….. all that junk in between about faithful observance is for the few who are happy with simply continuing with ‘not knowing.’

That is why the buck stops here.

Someone had to make that commitment with absolute integrity. Had no idea back when the commitment was made what it meant, but if that is what the big guy (existence) has prepared for this little ‘I’ be glad to know Kali yuga (time of ‘self”) is almost over as nothing can change what is coming and you so happen to be interacting with the moron who made that commitment. I am not concerned with what names the various religions wrote about ‘that guy’ or all the magical things that are supposed to come with it; the reality is, knowledge and understanding will be understood by the children, our future and either you are a doer, ready to give up the self for tomorrow, or you will continue talking because it probably makes you feel good (like affirmations).

 

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Hari Bol Them,

 

Your postings are the most enlivening thing I have read.

 

You should re-write them and re-post them later --for just 'great reading'.

 

Space out your sentences, and in narrow columns.

 

Aslo, edit out references to Bishadi's statements--and then you'll have a very nice 'essay'.

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

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Thanks Bhaktajan.

Composing such longs posts is very exhausting for me but I think I gave Bishadi some nice material for contemplation. I may return to this subject in the future but for now I think this will suffice.

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Thanks Bhaktajan.

Composing such longs posts is very exhausting for me but I think I gave Bishadi some nice material for contemplation. I may return to this subject in the future but for now I think this will suffice.

Thanks Them, great posts, wish more Vaishnavas come forward to share their nectar and realization! After all, isn't this the meaning of Vaishnava, to share and distribute?

Looks like the actual problem is that material brains cannot be convinced of even the existence of the soul what to speak of the existence of Krsna.

To perform Harinama Sankirtan is surely the most important thing to first of all get people's minds purified and able to understand the nature of the soul and how God is a person.

When people see on tv, China earthquake, 10,000 school children died in their run down school buildings whereas politicial fat cats experienced something like a protective shield during the catastrophe, material minds capitulate: "I somehow always believed in God but from today this is over."

Whatever we might preach material brains will never be convinced.

 

Prabhupāda: And unless we have got temple like this, nobody would come. If I sit down here, “Bhaktivedanta Swami is sitting here,” nobody will come.

Guest (1): But people, like poor people, like come to the…

Prabhupāda: But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is God. He can attract any man. But I am not God. I have to attract people by some opulence.

Guest (2): But Prabhupāda, in the beginning, you attracted in the park everyone. When you went to America, you were chanting and attracting people just in the park. Same place.

 

Prabhupāda: Now, at that time, only Brahmānanda was attracted. (laughter) Not you. Not you.

Guest (2): Only because he was sincere soul.

Prabhupāda: This Brahmānanda and Acyutānanda, they first danced in my chanting in the park. The photograph was published in the Times of New York.

Guest (1): And I heard that your first devotee in America, Kīrtaniyā.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): Kīrtaniyā Swami.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda Swami.

Guest (1): Kīrtanānanda Swami.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is next. He is next.

Guest (1): Oh yes, I met him.

Prabhupāda: He came next. Brahmānanda came first.

Kīrtanānanda: No, I came first.

 

Prabhupāda: No. You were present in that Thompkinson Square?

Kīrtanānanda: Before that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Kīrtanānanda: Before that.

Prabhupāda: Oh before that. Yes, yes. Yes, I…

Guest (1): I asked him. And somebody, some devotee…

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda you are defeated. So kīrtana is glorious than brahma-jñāna.

 

 

Morning Walk Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

March 9, 1974, Māyāpura

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One example of how <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =

<font face=" /><st1:City><st1:place>Darwin</st1:place></st1:City>’s representation of evolution or the existing pattern he described is tricky to understand is that the math of current sciences maintain a ‘law’ of equilibrium or entropy.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT size=3>

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT size=3>This means mass will always ‘cool’ or lose its energy to its surroundings so to speak. (chaos)

<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>And in most tests with inanimate matter, this is pretty much, experimentally supported as well <st1:City><st1:place>Newton</st1:place></st1:City> provided the math to substantiate what is observed. So in a sense, this ‘law’ is set in stone. (current paradigm)

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>But evolution and the pattern naturally observed shares that life, can entangle with its environment and evolve or adjust to the surrounding associations. Such that in a literal sense for mass to migrate, like herds of buffalo; the animal is adjusting for the associated environment, is as pure as an egg of a “single cell” follows a time established genetic development into a human being. i.e…. to observe a human fetus developing in the early weeks; see how many tail bones there are (count them) and then when born or fully developed; how many tail bones do we have. So just to watch a birth through the development of a new born; watch evolution in a hurry.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Still; the differences is the math of current scientific explanations; has no mechanics to show the increase of potential between 2 inanimate forms of mass.

<FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Like wise, the progression is based on the interrelation of all mass to each other based on the entanglement property of energy between all mass/existence.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>So to confirm evolution and how the progression actually exists is as simple as observing how energy (light) entangles mass in time. Or to share in a easy way for each to recognize;

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Tap the surface of a flat pond, see the wave (life) move through the pond, in time (anywhere in the pond the wave can be neasured) . Now tap the surface 2 times; when 2 waves interact, the combined increases their total potential and the life of the individual and total wave lasts longer in life with greater affect and action upon the whole pond.

<FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">So another tricky part of <st1:City><st1:place>Darwin</st1:place></st1:City>’s description of evolution is that there is no real mechanism (math) defining this process in the current sciences that can be accurate to all levels of science.

<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The reason is in how energy is defined.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

I don't think hatred against one of the greatest thinkers is necessary. It's always the religious people who attack scientists, all the while utilizing the comforts that science gives. Why is that?:confused:

 

 

That is a fair question and one that many of the folk on this earth would like to know.

 

Funny part is, the truth does not exist by either side of the debate, alone.

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That is a fair question and one that many of the folk on this earth would like to know.

 

Funny part is, the truth does not exist by either side of the debate, alone.

 

Perfectly said Bishadi.

 

By knowing both the gross and subtle elements individually, and knowing most importantly their interrelation that knowledge can be attained in its optimum level. That is understanding the harmonious coexistence of these 2 extremeties.

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Perfectly said Bishadi.

 

By knowing both the gross and subtle elements individually, and knowing most importantly their interrelation that knowledge can be attained in its optimum level. That is understanding the harmonious coexistence of these 2 extremeties.

 

The knowledge lives; each are important and they do combine.

 

Peace can exist with knowledge upon the minds of men/women.

 

me personally; I tink the kids catch on much quicker but 'thank you' kind friend for seeing with both eyes wide open.... :)

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Originally Posted by jinglebells

I don't think hatred against one of the greatest thinkers is necessary. It's always the religious people who attack scientists, all the while utilizing the comforts that science gives. Why is that?

 

This is bogus idea. Life without technology is safer, saner, more Enjoyable, more spiritual, less complicated, less lusty etc.

 

The last century is a case study of such. Every social atrocity is due to "progress" [in Kali-yuga terms].

 

Every slum is the result of third class citizens left behind by landlords seeking sense grad--That is the progress of science--you'll remember this next time your tele shows erectile dysfunction Adverts while sitting with your mum nearby.

 

"It's always the greed-motivated people who attack 'the simply-life', all the while utilizing the comforts that the unwashed masses of peasants give.

 

Even sacrifices "for society" are driven by the notion of reward--lusty rewards, even if petty and fleeting lusts.

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