No Contradiction in Teachings of Srila Prabhupada on the Fall of the Jiva

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

Lecture SB 1.5.25:

 

Srila PrabhupAda - "So many. There are different terms. So this is the process. We are eternally related with KRSNa, nitya-siddha kRSNa-bhakti, and we're eternally very affectionate and obedient servant of KRSNa.

 

That is our position. Somehow or other, it is covered. So that garbage that's covering has to be moved.

 

Therefore Caitanya MahAprabhu said, ceto-darpaNa-mArjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This is the process of cleansing the mirror of the heart. Mirror, when it is covered by dust you cannot see your face nicely.

 

But as soon as it is nicely brushed and cleansed, you see exactly what you are.

 

Similarly, this KRSNa consciousness movement means cleansing the heart of all the dirty things that is accumulated life after life. It is not an artificial thing, we are learning to become devotee of KRSNa.

 

Srila Prabhupada - "We are already devotee of KRSNa, but we have forgotten, or the consciousness is covered".Lecture SB 1.5.25

 

Now, by this process, devotional process, especially by kIrtana, by chanting, glorifying the holy name of the Lord, the cleansing process is accelerated. Very soon it takes place.

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Yogi means to reestablish our connection, our lost connection, with God. At the present moment, in our material condition, we have forgotten our relationship, our eternal relationship with KRSNa, or God.Lecture BG 4.21:

 

 

 

nitya-siddha kRSNa-bhakti sAdhya kabhu naya

zravaNAdi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

 

The kRSNa-bhakti, our love for KRSNa, is there eternally. But on account of our contamination with this material world, we have forgotten our relationship.

 

Just like a madman, he forgets his relationship with the family. He loiters in the street. He eats anywhere and everywhere and all rubbish things. Although he may have a very rich father, well-to-do family, but forgetting.... Madness means forgetfulness of his real life.

 

Srila Prabhupada -"So we are now forgetful of our real life".

[Beggar 0]

We all originated in German occupied France:

 

 

 

 

 

 

May God help us all.

(peut Dieu nous aider tous.)

notez la sorcière mauvaise de l'est vers la gauche immédiate du monsieur le plus misérable qui pleure.

 

 

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

these a more inspirational paintings Beggar prabhu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Vedesu 0]

 

We all originated in German occupied France:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

May God help us all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(peut Dieu nous aider tous.)

 

 

 

notez la sorcière mauvaise de l'est vers la gauche immédiate du monsieur le plus misérable qui pleure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, and that's an important distinction to make. Not just any France, but German occupied France.

 

Odd, but looking at the people in the above picture, the lady to the left of the crying man bears some resemblance to Caroline "Ma" Ingalls, as well as to the Wicked Witch of the West.

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

[Kulapavana 0]

“By the grace of God, we have complete freedom. Because the Lord is kind to us, we can live anywhere -- either in the spiritual sky or in the material sky, upon whichever planet we desire. However, misuse of this freedom causes one to fall down into the material world and suffer the threefold miseries of conditioned life. The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-caritamrita , Adi Lila 5.22, Purport

 

That is where that idea came from: Milton. There is no sanskrit term for "back to Godhead" because that concept is absent from classical writings.

[Beggar 0]

 

That is where that idea came from: Milton. There is no sanskrit term for "back to Godhead" because that concept is absent from classical writings.

Speaks for itself.

[bhaktajan 0]

 

Quote:

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That is where that idea came from: Milton. There is no sanskrit term for "back to Godhead" because that concept is absent from classical writings.

 

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<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Speaks for itself.

 

1) Milton's works are not qouted nor cited above by Prabhupad nor even by way of Kulapavana's implications. 'Paradise Lost' expresses that it was once possessed but later lost [in the Eternal Kingdom there are no fleeting Kalpas --we can't even re-call a past life].

 

2) Kulapavana states it correctly that we jiva-atmas where originally in Vaikuntha--[yet I DON"T KNOW WHAT Kulapavana's stance is because his posting represents both sides of the argument.]

 

3) "back to Godhead" because that concept is absent from classical writings".--A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami spoke it! It is thus sastra, ask your Guru and Sadhus! [The mantra: "Our father who art in heaven..." was also absent from classical writings--check with your Greek pals.]

 

Stop with the iconoclast rampages, please.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Kulapavana states it correctly that we jiva-atmas where originally in Vaikuntha--[yet I DON"T KNOW WHAT Kulapavana's stance is because his posting represents both sides of the argument.]

 

 

you obviously have never read my posts on this subject.

 

like ALL Gaudiyas outside the Iskcon reservation I accept the standard understanding that we (conditioned souls) are all originating from the mighty current in the Brahmajyoti known as the Viraja River, which is situated between (tatastha) the proper spiritual world (Vaikuntha planets) and the material world.

 

For the sake of preaching, Srila Prabhupada combined the standard understanding of the above original position with the Christian idea of "Paradise Lost". In this way he avoided propagating the more impersonal understanding of God (brahmavada) and bridged the gap between traditional Vaishnavism and Western religions.

 

There is nothing wrong with preaching like that to the western neophytes, but it is not the Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta. At one point a child must outgrow the belief in Santa Claus, altough initially it is a useful and noble idea.

[Beggar 0]

 

 

 

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 15.6 (second part of sloka)

 

 

 

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaḿ mama

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

yat — where; gatvā — going; na — never; nivartante — they come back; tat dhāma — that abode; paramam — supreme; mama — My.

 

 

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

...Those who reach it never return to this material world.

------

 

So "yad gatva" is literally, "where going", or "those who reach it". So going to the dhama (goloka or Vaikuntha) or to "reach" there, yet if Srila Prabhupada wanted to stress, "going back" he had the perfect opportunity in this sloka, yet he did not. Why didn't Krsna say, nivartante and then "na nivartante"? Krsna Himself said upon "gatva" or going, He didn't say returning! This is a perfect example of the sanskrit not supporting the "back to godhead" parable. I am not denying that things can be viewed differently from the aspect of eternity. The eternal aspect or view must be applied judiciously otherwise one will fall under the misconception that Krsna's nitya parikara ragatmika associates are fallible.

 

__________________

2/19/41 --- Monsieur svp cher, s'abstiennent à me donner la douleur en répétant des conclusions illogiques, autrement je pleurerai!

Cher monsieur est là de toute façon vous peut cultiver la sorcière mauvaise de l'ouest hors de l'image. Elle me conduit fou !

[Kulapavana 0]

 

yad gatvā na nivartante

 

 

tad dhāma paramaḿ mama

 

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

yat — where; gatvā — going; na — never; nivartante — they come back; tat dhāma — that abode; paramam — supreme; mama — My.

 

 

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

...Those who reach it never return to this material world.

------

 

 

Essentially that makes the phrase "BACK to Godhead" null and void, as there is movement only in one direction

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

 

 

 

 

The marginal living entity (tatastha-s'akti) IS a perpetual nitya siddha svarupa body (due to the eternal presents of Goloka is ALWAYS there), which means the living entity is also jiva tatastha while DREAMING as their non Krishna conscious nitya-baddha lower self in the mahat-tattva!

The three energies of Lord Krishna are the -

Superior - Krishna and His unlimited expansions. Within the immensity of Krishna’s perpetual abodes is also where the marginal living entity in their perpetual svarupa form reside serving Krishna or a Vishnu expansion.

It is important to understand that even though they are associating with the superior energies of Krishna, they are never one with the superior energy, they always remain marginal or jiva tatastha.

Marginal - The living entities or jiva-tatastha's (of whom their full potential is nitya-siddha in Goloka) are perpetually independent and eternally have free will. This means they have the choice to be with Krishna as who they really are (nitya-siddha) or manifest their own imaginary world as nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva. Having choice (jiva-tatastha) is what it really means to be in-between the Superior and inferior. One chooses either Krishna's perpetual creation or Maha-Vishnu's temporary DREAM creation

Inferior - The mahat-tattva or material energies that include the ethereal and biological vessels The life force from the Superior plain (Krishna and His expansions like Maha-Vishnu) and the marginal plain (the jiva-tatastha in their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness [except of course a nitya-siddha devotee in Krishna's lila in the mahat-tattva like Srila Prabhupada]) ALL move the inferior energies (material) that has no life

Srila Prabhupada - "We are already devotee of KRSNa, but we have forgotten, or the consciousness is covered".Lecture SB 1.5.25

 

Now, by this process, devotional process, especially by kIrtana, by chanting, glorifying the holy name of the Lord, the cleansing process is accelerated. Very soon it takes place.

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Yogi means to reestablish our connection, our lost connection, with God. At the present moment, in our material condition, we have forgotten our relationship, our eternal relationship with KRSNa, or God.Lecture BG 4.21:

 

[Beggar 0]

2/19/41 --- Dear Sir, do I have to wait until Christmas for my eternal presents?

(Est-ce que cher Monsieur, je dois attendre jusqu'à Noël mes présents éternels?)

You see, I am afraid that the wicked witch will steal them!

(Vous voyez, j'ai peur que la sorcière mauvaise les volera !)

[Sarva gattah 0]

 

There is no sanskrit term for Back to Godhead.

 

A devotee sent me this excerpt from an article by Srila Sridhar Maharaj called, A Wonderful Touch.

 

In the section, God and "The Godhead," Srila Sridhar Maharaj explains:

"To avoid the Christian conception of "God," our Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada, used the word, "Godhead." God is a particular conception of the Absolute, but Godhead represents the Bhagavat, or the background conception of God, which is Svayam Bhagavad: the Supreme Lord Himself. So, more than "back to God," is "back to Godhead."

Srimad Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj Prabhupada named his spiritual magazine after this idea in 1944, eight years after the disappearance of our Gurudev, Srila [bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati] Prabhupad, in appreciation of this conception. Back to Godhead there is our home" Srila Sridhar Maharaj

[Kulapavana 0]

 

In the section, God and "The Godhead," Srila Sridhar Maharaj explains:

"To avoid the Christian conception of "God," our Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada, used the word, "Godhead." God is a particular conception of the Absolute, but Godhead represents the Bhagavat, or the background conception of God, which is Svayam Bhagavad: the Supreme Lord Himself. So, more than "back to God," is "back to Godhead."

Srimad Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj Prabhupada named his spiritual magazine after this idea in 1944, eight years after the disappearance of our Gurudev, Srila [bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati] Prabhupad, in appreciation of this conception. Back to Godhead there is our home" Srila Sridhar Maharaj

 

I suspect that Srila Sridhara Maharaja said that in Bengali, in a particular context, to disciples of Srila Prabhupada. I wonder who translated that piece and what the context was.

 

While it is a fact that the word English word "Godhead" was introduced in Gaudiya Vaishnavism by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, the concept of "back to Godhead" is Srila Prabhupada's contribution.

 

The word Godhead has a Sanskrit equivalent (Bhagavat, or Bhagavan), but the phrase "back to Godhead" does not.

[Beggar 0]

Yes, it was Srila Saraswati Thakur who coined the phrase, "back to godhead". But note that this is an English phrase. In the 1930's those who were fluent in English in India were generally either from Great Britain or British Colonial educated Indians. Both Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaj attended Scottish Church College in Bengal and their professors were Scottish Presbyterian ministers. The influence of the Christian missionaries in Colonial India was very broad notably in the educational system. In fact Srila Sridhar Maharaj held a law degree. Srila Saraswati Thakur and his father were also graduates of the British Colonial educational system and of course we know that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur was a magistrate in the British Colonial legal system of India. Srila Saraswati Thakur's mission was aimed at especially the young Bengali aristocracy who were under the iron grip and spell of the Colonial British culture. The Gaudiya Math was in many ways an attempt to wrest these persons away from the British anti-Vaisnava and anti-varnasrama grip and had surprising success. Both Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaj among others had to be convinced by Srila Saraswati Thakur of the ultimate spiritual futility of Gandhi's movement (lila). Actually Gandhi was a British educated barrister and despite his dress of a sadhu was very Westernized. Srila Saraswati Thakur's development of the English phrase, "back to godhead" must be viewed in this context.

Note: The young Indian and Bengali aristocracy were certainly exposed to Milton's "Paradise Lost" in their British Colonial eduacation.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Yes, it was Srila Saraswati Thakur who coined the phrase, "back to godhead". But note that this is an English phrase.

 

Any idea where and when did it first appear?

[Beggar 0]

Well whoever coined the phrase, "back to godhead" (and we know for sure that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur coined the phrase - "godhead"), my last post still makes some sense.

[Beggar 0]

 

Any idea where and when did it first appear?

All we can do is google it.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

All we can do is google it.

 

Believe me, I tried. I have spent a lot of time researching this on the internet and thus far zero references to BST ever using that phrase.

 

But your comment about the educational influences in the case of Bhaktivionoda Thakura, BST, and SP certainly makes sense.

[Vedesu 0]

 

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

...Those who reach it never return to this material world.

------

 

So "yad gatva" is literally, "where going", or "those who reach it". So going to the dhama (goloka or Vaikuntha) or to "reach" there, yet if Srila Prabhupada wanted to stress, "going back" he had the perfect opportunity in this sloka, yet he did not. Why didn't Krsna say, nivartante and then "na nivartante"? Krsna Himself said upon "gatva" or going, He didn't say returning! This is a perfect example of the sanskrit not supporting the "back to godhead" parable. I am not denying that things can be viewed differently from the aspect of eternity. The eternal aspect or view must be applied judiciously otherwise one will fall under the misconception that Krsna's nitya parikara ragatmika associates are fallible.

 

 

Cher monsieur est là de toute façon vous peut cultiver la sorcière mauvaise de l'ouest hors de l'image. Elle me conduit fou !

 

[Beggar 0]

Cher monsieur, j'ai appris des sources fiables qui est réellement sacre bleu.

(Dear sir, I have learned from reliable sources that is actually sacre bleu.)

[Vedesu 0]

 

Cher monsieur, j'ai appris des sources fiables qui est réellement sacre bleu.

(Dear sir, I have learned from reliable sources that is actually sacre bleu.)

 

[Vedesu 0]

I tried to edit my previous post, but I guess the time had expired. Don't know much about paint or photoshop, so I experimented with the airbrush.

 

Little did this man from 1941 German-occupied France ever suspect that he would become semi-famous around the world some 65 or 70 years later via cyber-space.

 

[Sarva gattah 0]

In 1972 we meet an Indian Professor who invited us to the Uni of Armidale NSW where we chanted and distributed Prasadam. Many Indian families lived there and some of us went to their houses to speak from Bhagavad Gita.

This is where the origin of the jiva soul came up and Madhudvisa had to explain that we do not originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti as many Hindu's believed, but have come down from Vaikuntha many millions of years ago. It was explained to our Indian hosts that our 'present awareness' is only within the past, present and future of the material world and we have forgotten who we really are as eternal servants of Krishna in Goloka.

And yes, we are actually in the material world or mahat-tattva due to having only that awareness! So clearly, we are IN the material world, even if, as Prabhupada explains, our eternal 'svarupa' is perpetually situated in Vaikuntha within the 'eternal present' that is only existent in Vaikuntha.

It was further explained on that cold winters night in June 1972, that this is because as long as we remain in the material world, our 'awareness of our eternal relationship with Krishna is no longer remembered in our present state of conditioned consciousness.

Therefore it only 'appears' our nitya-siddha eternal body does not exist, just like it 'appears' the sun does not exist due to the cloud cover, or by the presents of night.

Actually our conditioned position in the material world is way shoddier than that analogy because we at least understand that the sun exists behind the cloud cover and in the sky when it is dark, even if we cannot see it due to the turning of the planet.

The conditioned soul however, does not understand this because they are not aware they even have a eternal relationship with Krishna.

Therefore our attendance in the material world is very real. And to each of us, it is not a dream state, we do not experience the material world as a dream state while we are here, it is real, as real as being in Vaikuntha or Goloka, however we experience everything as temporary.

It was on Brisbane that a devotee began suggesting and kept insisting that the jiva souls originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti and that no one can fall down from Goloka. Along with the Uni discussion at Armadale and on the bus during classes, this is how the 'origin of the jiva' controversy began in Australia.

The debate ragged for weeks on the bus, however that idea was quickly rejected in a letter we would eventually receive from Prabhupada that was sent to all Temple Presidents in Australia. It was a very hot topic back then in 1972 as well, but we had Prabhupada who personally guided us to the correct understanding.

Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

Srila Prabhupada - ""Formerly we were with Krsna in His Lila"

Srila Prabhupada - We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on August 6, 1973 ...73/08/06 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.6

Srila Prabhupada however, also stresses, as Theist Prabhu from Audarya Fellowship points out, we presently we are caught in past present and future. That we can't deny. We are experiencing Krsna, the same time factor as the eternal present, in terms of past present future.

It is not enough to just say there is only the eternal present and pretend we are free from time while we continue to revolve in birth and death. A prisoner behind bars for twenty years may shut his eyes and pretend he his release date has already arrived but the fact is he is still behind bars. The material experience of time as past present future is an illusion but it is also very real

The Srimad Bhagavatam classes therefore delved deeply into the souls origin for months as we travelled around Australian. We new this was a very auspicious time and that the teachings of Srila Prabhupada revealed to us the disclosure of the long kept secret of the meaning of existence and the purpose of all life.

Srila Prabhupada in his beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad Gita was revealing all this to us, opening our eyes to the truth about the universe and it's creator Lord Krishna.

 

Our svarupa or nitya-siddha body is always in Vaikuntha or Goloka but we are now 'consciously' caught up within the past, present and future of the material creation due to our desire and choice not to be with Krishna, that has covered the 'eternal present' of Vaikuntha and Goloka like a cloud covers the Sun.

It was in the Temple room at 83 Hereford St. Sydney in early in 1973 that Srila Prabhupada and myself began discussing the paintings of Lord Caitanya and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswat Thakur that I innocently put on the step of his Vysasana to keep them off the floor while I was cleaning. Srila Prabhupada laughed and laughed saying that is not where those Personalities go, the emotion in his eyes and his humility I will never forget. It was during his gentle chastisement of me he said –

Srila Prabhupada – "We have all foolishly come to this material world from the wonderful pastimes of Lord Caitanya and Krsna, and now you have come back, when you eventually go back home back to Godhead you will understand all this"

This was an intimate personal relationship between my Spiritual Master and myself that I will remember this to my last days on this planet.

It is that kind of association that rivets ones understanding that can never be swayed by any other argument.

When one chooses to forget Krishna, one is unwilling to serve Krishna as their perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha bodily self and therefore, it is that aversion to Krishna that causes the living entity to manifest a secondary version of themselves (nitya baddha) that imagines, thinks and dream they are no longer in Vaikuntha or even Goloka in there eternal nitya siddha body.

This is possible due to the marginal status of the living entity, where exists the free will to be, or not be with Krishna, eternally exists.

That secondary nitya-baddha jiva condition enters the mahat-tattva of divided time and space and is given material form (vessels) by Maha -Vishnu to live out their non Krishna conscious imagination"

Srila Prabhupada – "…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?" You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned' Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

The full expression and complete potential of ALL marginal living entities is their perpetual 'svarupa' body that is eternally situated and established within Goloka or Vaikuntha within the realm of the 'eternal present' that is unaffected by the past, present and future of divided time that exists in the material creation or mahat-tattva.

Therefore it can then be said that the marginal living entities who have miss-used their free will and chose to enter the maha-tattva, are only temporarily trapped within the material creation, while their undying 'svarupa' body is currently not realized by them within the 'perpetual present' of Goloka and Vaikuntha.

This is because of being consciously absorbed and restricted to their baddha jiva conscious imagination that is trapped within the divided time of past, present and future within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu"

Srila Prabhupada - You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all. lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.1

Srila Prabhupada - "Our contact with matter is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness, we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this situation" Srila Prabhupada lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.1

Srila Prabhupada - "Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things". Letter to Madhudvisa Swami

Srila Prabhupada - 'Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport" Letter to Madhudvisa Swami

Srila Prabhupada - "Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only" (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada – 'So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what his relationship with Krishna is, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada –"Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what your relationship with Krishna is automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi". (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada - 'No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode”. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) This clearly means our nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that we only dream, think or imagine we leave. That dream state consciousness is called the jiva-baddha or nitya-baddha. In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. It is there in the material creation that the baddha jiva's are provided with temporary bodily forms created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky.

In this way it is Srila Prabhupada explaining to us in very simple English that we all originate from Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Srila Prabhupada -"The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48

Srila Prabhupada - "Kāla is exhibited in three features: past, present, and future. That is in the material existence. And if one becomes above the three kālas, in the eternal time… Time is eternal, but in the material existence there is past, present, and future.

In the spiritual existence there is no past, no future, only present. Only present. Everything is fresh, present, nitya-navayamāna, only feelings, new, new. That is spiritual existence, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, only present—no future, no past. That we cannot realize now, but we can get the knowledge from Vedic literature.

The time factor… In the material world there is past, present, and future. Otherwise, time factor is eternal". Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.26.16 by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Bombay, December 25, 1974

Srila Prabhupada - "As soon we come to the spiritual plane, "only present", but: "That we cannot realize now."

Actually there is no birth of the jivas. They are all eternal, like Lord Balarama Himself. Many things in the shastra is said to convince the jivas conditioned in the material world, that their real home is Goloka.

There are so many things that sastra has told us, whereas in reality, in Goloka Vrndavana dhama, due to the 'eternal presents', these things will be seen in another way where we can understand that we never fall from Goloka, we only dream we do.