I am Guru and I Want to Die with the Title of Guru

[Beggar 0]

 

 

GM with Virasundari & Mark who have taken pre-initiation at New Panihati 2007

 

GM with Virasundari & Mark who have taken pre-initiation at New Panihati 2007

 

 

[theist 1]

"took pre-initiation" That is a curious term. I wonder what she means.

[theist 1]

Who is GM?

[Beggar 0]

 

"took pre-initiation" That is a curious term. I wonder what she means.

It appears that they have invented a new thing with their fertile brains. In the Gaudiya Math and it's non-ISKCON offshoots, no one is instructed to chant the Maha Mantra on beads until they are formally given those beads by the guru at the Hare Nama initiation ceremony. At the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math during the time of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, if someone came from ISKCON and they were initiated by an ISKCON guru who they were rejecting, they were asked to surrender their japa beads and not chant japa until they were initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaj. In ISKCON it is quite the opposite, anyone who shows up can purchase beads and then be instructed how to chant. Of course sometimes they are actually given japa beads which is directly against Srila Prabhupada's instruction. Since non-initiated ISKCONites are already chanting perhaps their pre-initiation is like an engagement before the "marriage" of initiation.

 

 

 

2007 Virasundari with Guru Maharaja

 

2007 Virasundari with Guru Maharaja after Pre-Initiation Ceremony

(Jayapataka Maharaja, the last of the Original 11 in good standing, Hrdayananda Maharaja is about 60% in good standing)

 

[theist 1]

Maybe it refers to someone who has picked a guru, contacted him and is in the process of examining that guru and the guru them before any formal rites are conducted.

 

I hope it is not some formal invented thing.

[Beggar 0]

 

I hope it is not some formal invented thing.

 

 

2007 Virasundari with Guru Maharaja after Pre-Initiation Ceremony

Ceremony means formal, therefore it must be a new invention. Maybe they should contact a patent attorney? Then if the Gaudiya Math tried to pre-initiate someone, ISKCON could file a lawsuit and get a temporary restraining order.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

It appears that they have invented a new thing with their fertile brains. In the Gaudiya Math and it's non-ISKCON offshoots, no one is instructed to chant the Maha Mantra on beads until they are formally given those beads by the guru at the Hare Nama initiation ceremony. At the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math during the time of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, if someone came from ISKCON and they were initiated by an ISKCON guru who they were rejecting, they were asked to surrender their japa beads and not chant japa until they were initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaj. In ISKCON it is quite the opposite, anyone who shows up can purchase beads and then be instructed how to chant. Of course sometimes they are actually given japa beads which is directly against Srila Prabhupada's instruction. Since non-initiated ISKCONites are already chanting perhaps their pre-initiation is like an engagement before the "marriage" of initiation.

 

 

It can probably be said that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta himself invented several of such things, including the Hari-nama initiation. If one guru invents something new that creates a precedent for his followers. I am not saying that all such inventions are bad, only that it is hard to criticize the followers for doing the same things their guru performed.

[Beggar 0]

 

It can probably be said that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta himself invented several of such things, including the Hari-nama initiation. If one guru invents something new that creates a precedent for his followers. I am not saying that all such inventions are bad, only that it is hard to criticize the followers for doing the same things their guru performed.

Srila Prabhupada did not want his disciples to become acaryas who were revolutionary reformers and change what he had given. He could clearly see that no one was qualified for that.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Srila Prabhupada did not want his disciples to become acaryas who were revolutionary reformers and change what he had given. He could clearly see that no one was qualified for that.

 

This is the argument of the ritviks. Just like: "Nobody is qualified to be a real guru and acharya - ever..." So in the same way you are saying that nobody will ever be qualified to make any subsequent changes?

 

What you said about Prabhupada's wishes may be true, but to demand that no changes will be introduced in the future, when several of the past acharyas introduced significant changes to tradition, is not a reasonable expectation. Prabhupada did not lay down very clear rules regarding initiations or chanting on the beads prior to initiation. Getting gayatri mantra from a tape recorder?? I am not at all surprised the changes continue.

[Beggar 0]

 

I am not at all surprised the changes continue.

There are persons outside of ISKCON's walls that are competent to give real guidance. If any change is deemed necessary then perhaps the proposal could be presented to someone more experienced and advanced and they could approve or disapprove.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

There are persons outside of ISKCON's walls that are competent to give real guidance. If any change is deemed necessary then perhaps the proposal could be presented to someone more experienced and advanced and they could approve or disapprove.

 

That will never work. The leadership of Iskcon decided long ago that it is "Prabhupada only" society and as long as SP's disciples are still alive it will continue to be run in that fashion. Besides, can you imagine anybody outside Iskcon approving all the stuff that is already in place? What about guru-puja performed in front of the Deities while Tulasi-puja is done with curtains closed?

 

Another issue. There are some very qualified people in Iskcon but because the GBC decissions are controlled by several "power circles" their voices are either hushed or ignored. And since GBC is a position for life, changes are very hard to implement.

[Beggar 0]

 

That will never work. The leadership of Iskcon decided long ago that it is "Prabhupada only" society and as long as SP's disciples are still alive it will continue to be run in that fashion. Besides, can you imagine anybody outside Iskcon approving all the stuff that is already in place? What about guru-puja performed in front of the Deities while Tulasi-puja is done with curtains closed?

 

Another issue. There are some very qualified people in Iskcon but because the GBC decissions are controlled by several "power circles" their voices are either hushed or ignored. And since GBC is a position for life, changes are very hard to implement.

Therefore the proper changes such as for guru-puja and not serving out grains to the devotees at the Janmastami feast do not occur. Yet, ironically and fitting, new changes like "retired" sannyasis, paying TPs $60k salaries and pre-initiations have no difficulty in manifesting. Gee, I wonder why that is?

[mahak 0]

how bout post sanyassi traumatic initiation, PSTI, compensible by the federal government, $1,555 per month, tax free, provided you got twenty five years robed service. Have him gimme a call, Ill be his union rep (if he wasnt a scab) or send him to the Judge advocate.

[Beggar 0]

 

 

After the GBC makes SDG get a job he returns after driving a bus on the night shift:

"Alice, I'm home!!!"

 

 

[Beggar 0]

Satsvarupa, he was a friend of mine

And he could write a poem

His heart in every line

Satsvarupa wrote of the joy and pain

He opened up our minds

And I still can hear him say

Aw, talk to me so you can see

What's going on

Say you will write your poems

Forevermore, evermore

 

Gonna be some sweet japa reform coming down

On the nightshift

I bet you're chanting proud

Oh, I bet you'll haul a crowd

Gonna be a long night, it's gonna be all right

On the Route 19 nightshift

Oh you found another home, I know you're not alone

On the nightshift

 

Bhagavan, hey what you doing now

It seems like yesterday

When we were pick'in out

Bhagavan, you set your zone on fire

You came and preached to us

Your class, it lifted us higher and higher

Keep it up and we'll be there

At your side

Oh say you will sing your bhajan songs

Forevermore, evermore

 

Gonna be some sweet japa coming down

On the nightshift

I bet you're chanting proud

Oh, I bet you'll pull a crowd

Gonna be a long night, it's gonna be all right

On the nightshift

Oh you found another home, I know you're not alone

On the nightshift