vaisnava teachings of Lord Jesus Christ

[mahak 0]

 

 

Haribol, audarya fellowship readers. Please accept this essay for your consideration.

 

 

 

Haribol, all glories to the assembled devotees. All glories to Lord Jesus Christ, Sri Krsna's most confidential servant. This is His season, so I humbly pay tribute to his mission.

 

Lord Jesus Christ did not advertize himself, he did not even care to hear his disciples describe him as "my good rabbi", deferring the title "good" to be applied only to the One Who sent Him. The perfection of relationship between God and man was, thus, nicely displayed for those who have ears. Jesus wants ABBA, ELOI, JAHOVIA, His dearmost Father, advertized as the primary receptacle of our LOVE, to all segments of society, no matter whether one is of David and Solomon, or outside as Gentile, without desiring to become famous in His own right. Sri Krsna is so pleased with the work of His only begotten Son (see the creator, Lord Brahma, begotten from the lotus) that this Son has become the most famous human being throughout history, so much so that even the Buddhist atheist must acknowledge, the whole world is talking millenium madness, year 2000, all based on the appearance of this simple carpenter's son who befriended the fishers of men. If this is not yoga, rasa, yoking, then yoga has no meaning.

 

An important fact of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings can be applied to concern about potential Vaikuntha falldown, as follows. His disciples, who were, by the way, fully aware of transmigration of the soul, (another story, perhaps another day), asked Him if it was better to be at home with the Lord and away from the body or at home with the body and away from the Lord. Lord Jesus Christ answered by not choosing between the two, rather giving absolute Vaisnava instruction, "Whether at home with the Lord and away from the body or at home with the body and away from the Lord, our business is to SERVE THE LORD." Perfect and complete instructions, and, as such, these instructions are completely perfect. Bhakti-yoga is non-dependent of personal salvation, thus, even salvation and the liberation of becoming one with the Lord is rejected by the Vaisnava. So many (so-called) Christians, salvationists, do not have ears to hear from Him, all they want is a heaven lined with gold, not even necessarily wanting to be with Him, just unlimited and eternal enjoyment of their own selfish interest, me-me-me, yet at the time of His samadhi, Lord Jesus Christ went to hell to serve His Father's desires.

 

This is all contained in the very-tampered-with biblical scripture, yet there is enough true NECTAR left from Lord Jesus Christ's teachings that one is only foolish to reject Him. In tribute to Lord Jesus Christ, I shall publish here a story of His mission, with my head on the ground in obiesance to Srila Prabhupada, who gives us all access to His teachings.

 

Never is there harm in speaking about the Vaisnava, however, we must hear properly first before recitation, otherwise we mislead others with relative truth. The validity of scriptual evidence about Lord Jesus Christ's pastimes is always in question, because those entrusted with caretaking His message have allowed interpretation, editing, omission, and other dealings for two millenia. This is a hidden lesson all devotees should be in tune with, as this tendency continues within our own parampara.

 

Many devotees do not care to hear about Lord Jesus Christ, and their reasons are not altogether unfounded nor ill-advised, for the common beliefs about this important Acarya are mired in speculations of the mukti-bhukti habits common to man-made-religionists. Yet, even with this disclaimer of no pure sampradaya, Srila Prabhupada made clear points about Lord Jesus Christ that no one can deny. Had rejection of this devotee been the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, there would be no mention of His validity in his books. But this is not the case, and, as I do not provide citations to verify, I encourage all his followers to research his books to find out what he actually says about Him.

 

Two important prayers that have been relegated to children songs in this dark age of atheism describe the Mission of Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary. The article below indicates the bhakti that can be realized from mere recitation of these prayers. Just as no one should speak on behalf of Srila Prabhupada if they cannot utter the Mahamantra, similarly, one should never comment on Lord Jesus Christ unless they FOLLOW His order and "Pray like Me, Our Father...".

 

Subserviant to the purport of Sri Siksastakam, the Divine Author, Sri Gauranga, and His representative, Sri Gurudeva, and bowing in obiesance with head on the ground, reciting the Lord's Prayer, all confusion ceases and one becomes dhira (unconfused).

 

Lord Jesus Christ gives mantra to all who will take, hallowed be the Names of Our Father. His mother, Mary, demonstrates intercession, rasa, and pure bhakti, and also gives us mantra, the Lord is with Her, She is full of Grace. This is proven by the guru-shastra-sadhu criteria, and their lives are present in Sound. The memory of the Nectar of Instruction, that which is carefully salvaged from the rubble of the schisms and interpretations of the pretender, is sufficient to deliver the swan-like devotees to him.

 

Lord Jesus Christ teaches Love of God without fear, without limitation, free from selfish interest. Bhukti (selfish world contentment) and mukti (desires to be free from misery) are not part of His teachings and are not the goals he tries to humbly show us for ultimate happiness, the only requirement is sincere surrender to the will of the Lord and reciprocation with His unconditional love.

 

I cannot write this for the so-called christian, for they have no idea of rasa. They care not for the pleasure of Joseph looking down at the smiling Christ-child in his arms. All they can do is take some of His words to conquer the "heathens" and teach them to serve His shadow. I beg forgiveness for offending some by singing His glories occasionally, but I cannot refrain from doing so. Suffice it to say, a Christian is as rare as a Vaisnava, and we all have had the great fortune of knowing both in one person, His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

I do no such artificial deification of Lord Jesus Christ, yet try to hear from Him in light of acintya-bheda-bheda-tattva, that is, his purpose is non-different from whom he calls Abbah, Eloy, Jahovia, etc. Lord Jesus Christ's mission is consistant with his being sent by the Supreme Lord.

 

Two thousand years ago, three mystic travelers practicing worship of the Supreme Lord, became enlightened by this service. Through the science of astrological calculations, this Object of their worship led them from Kurdistan, Afghanistan, and India, to Bayt Lahm. Gathering spices, exotic resins, and gold for sacrificial offering, they were led to the birthsite of a simple newborn in very humble surroundings. Although a royal heir to both Davidian and Solomonic branches of the dynasty of Israel, this child was born in bondage to Rome. Yet, because these three travelers were devoted to the Lord, they were led to His most confidential servant, Lord Jesus Christ. Celebrating his birth with sweet honour, they returned to their homes, not at all deviating from the religion which satisfied their desires for redemption. They knew of NO King James, Aquinas, nor of Christian Coalitions, yet they practiced yoga, became unified in purpose and service to the one Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Many of today's so-called christians are very uncomfortable with a description of the Maji and their religious practices. They are more uncomfortable with historical data concerning Lord Jesus Christ's appearance, his Essene religious practice of healing arts, his travels between the ages of twelve to thirty, etc. For some strange reason, they say God incarnated as His son and studied carpentry for more than half his years on earth. These same people have elevated a demoniac King James of England to a position of spiritual authority, thus impersonalizing the greatest of philosophers. Lord Jesus Christ never says that he IS his Father, and when his disciples tried to exalt his position, he always defers to his Father. By nullifying the Father, one nullifies the son and the wonderful relationship existing between Father and Son, the relationship Lord Jesus Christ tries to share with the world.

 

The present christianity espoused by the bigoted, unloving, uncaring materialists is not only useless, it is most offensive to those desiring to follow the precepts of Lord Jesus Christ. Using the banner of the cross (the weapon used to kill him), they villify the followers of Muhammed, Sri Chaitanya, and others who are not against their so-called lord. They say that Jesus is the absolute, only salvation, whereas Lord Jesus Christ admonishes his disciples' criticisms of outsiders, saying, "Those not against are with us." Fanatics want to convert by force and coersion. Lord Jesus Christ converts by free choice and love. Those who think christians are better and more loved by God than others who are more oriented to His purpose and devoted to the Lord are offenders to the Holy Names and are rejected. Lord Jesus speaks of loving enemies, what to speak of loving his children who lovingly call Him by other Names.

 

Lord Jesus Christ is the son of David via Joseph, and the son of Solomon via the maternity of Mary, the Axumite Hebrew. Scripture concerning his early travels exist in Bengal, Tibet, Yucatan, Iraq, etc., yet King James hid them from his professional writers contracted to translate. A concoction called "trinity" has been placed in the minds of modern christians, frustrated into calling Him a "mystery". Although trinity is clear, that is, three distinct and separate aspects of divinity, (internal, external, and marginal potencies), singular in purpose, an impersonalist hodgepodge philosophy which keeps all people away from the Lord is in place. If the son IS the Father, then neither can exist. The truth is clear, only the concoctions by the king are "mysterious".

 

Lord Jesus Christ teaches to develop our love with his Father, and the Father, via Paramatma (holy spirit), teaches us internally to love His son as His Own. Simple. Render to the king what is his, taxes, honour, etc., but spiritual authority placed on unworthy persons is eternal suicide.

 

 

The only clarity of my life exists in the hearing and chanting of Harinama, thus rekindling rememberance of the lila-guna rupa namnam of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Continuance of a program, founded by Srila Prabhupada, to further his mission of spreading this hearing and chanting of Harinama to the mass of suffering people bound by forgetfulness, asleep in the lap of the witch called Maya, as the great song goes. What is pleasing to Srila Prabhupada is that we adopt this process as our life and soul, our reason for existance. Did Srila Prabhupada request us to change our religion? He did not, for the Holy Names of God, when uttered aloud to musical accompanyment or softly whispered in meditation, only serves to perfect one's religion.

 

From my view, and I am definitely not criticizing any devotee of Krsna, a change from Christianity to ISKCONism, or from Judahism to another Vaisnava philosophically draped ecclesiastical system is not warranted, nor attractive, to one who relishes the purport and example set by Sri Gurudeva. Harinama, Harinama, Harinama, eva kevelam........

ISKCON has great facility to train up disciples to send on the streets and in the homes of the poor sleepers, to give them, on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, the gifts he has kindly given us. If those who maintain the temples are dedicated to this, I have no quarrel with them, but to those who want to have their positions fortified by the utilization of resources of such a facility, such resources are misspent, greatly displeasing to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I read quotations all the time, who said what, when, why, but this cannot displace what Srila Prabhupada has imparted unto me, that is, even if all fall down, his disciple must stand, even if alone. I judge with my feet, as he kindly ordered me. My last contact with ISKCON was years ago, the day the Amerikans slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in retreat, supposedly protected by Geneva Rules of Engagement. I visited a crumbling Vancouver facility, on a Sunday morning, with my family. No greeting, no prasadam, I had to hunt for a devotee to sell me a book, no friendliness. But I was not disturbed, because, as I saw Tulasi Devi thriving in a carefully protected small area reserved for Her, I knew that a Vaisnava disciple of my Guru Maharaja lived there, therefore, I do NOT criticize those living in the shelter established by my Guru Maharaja. But what can be said of the conditions of the temples left by Srila Prabhupada, did he leave no funds? Did he leave us helpless, without FOUNDATION? No he did not. He left the management to those who would usurp and squander on the guru game, and their offenses had the effect of embarassing all the true Vaisnavas of the world. This is not his loss of control, this has all been His Divine Grace, ripping away all the glitter from our eyes so we may see the truth, that is, Harinama, Harinama, Harinama, eva kevelam.........

 

Srila Prabhupada is much more than the buildings he left, he is Jagat Guru, leader of David and Solomon followers, leader of the true followers of the Christ Jesus, as His Samkirtana leader, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, did before him, he uses Qoran to defeat the Kazi. Non-denominational, giving up all varieties of religion, he asks us to surrender to Sri Krsna by the process of Harinama Samkirtana. The fighting spirit between the devotees may go on forever, just see the combatants on the plain of Kuruksetra, all devotees, yet no deal, no cooperation. But can we afford it?

I have recently been appreciating my Christian heritage, albeit originally devoid of any knowledge of bhakti, for the Bhagavad Gita As It Is was omitted from the concordex, now there is so much understanding.

 

Srila Prabhupada took on buddhists, defeating all the "No self theories", destroyed the nirvisesavada philosophy of Lord Siva in his Shankaracarya incarnation, yet there is no indication at all of Srila Prabhupada not wholeheartedly accepting the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ. His only displeasure is that the Christians do not FOLLOW Him. The reason for this is that Lord Jesus Christ's mission is not unlike that of Srila Prabhupada, to engage the sleeping souls in the practice of bhakti, hearing and singing the Names of the Supreme Being.

 

This could be a test question for all the haughty so-called Vaisnavas who vilify the position of Lord Jesus Christ, either overtly or with subtlety.

Q.) Describe the purport of the following prayer, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed be thou amongst women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death."

A.) True rasa is demonstrated, as the Avatara descends at will, bringing His associates with Him as He pleases. Srimati Mary, by the strength of Her devotional service, has been granted the service to act as His Mother. Being nitya-siddha, Srimati Mary was not held accountable for any sour reaction from sinful activity, for she had none. She was, indeed, Immaculate, thus, from Her very conception in this world, a pure devotee of the Lord, in the rasa of parenthood. The second part of this prayer is the example for all the world on the method of approaching the Lord, referred in other Shastra as "dasa, dasa, anudasa".

 

One must seek out the servant of the servant of the Lord, begging for intercession, begging to somehow be engaged in this dasa, dasa, anudasa process. Such engagement will be so beneficial to the living being that he need not be so concerned by his mentality during the turmoil of the death experiance, for the relationship will be set in ones heart, the yoking (yoga) forever unbroken, so much so, that Srimati Mary, Lord Jesus Christ, and He Who Sent Them, will be thinking of them. No artificial behavior involved. This prayer is an example of prema bhakti.

 

Anyway, I had to share these thoughts, but I did not just want to throw them around, because I am sure that many would scoff, asking for "vedic" proof of what I say, questioning the Divinity of the Christ. (Without the philosophy of acintya bheda bheda tattwa, there is NO understanding of any shastra.) His divinity is clear in his purpose, for his will and the will of Sri Govinda are the same, thus the term AVATAR is quite appropriate.

 

Simple does not always translate to easy. Falldowns are always surrounding us, yet there is no artificial way to avoid the problems presented by the mind, others, and natural events, regardless of how one is temporarily situated. The challenge is what it is all about. It is like, "Today, I am going to dive deeper into my relationship with the one who loves me more than I can ever repay." For the initiated, this is an oath, a promise to honor (reciprocate) commitment, we promise to abide by Sri Vaisnava's instructions. This promise burns in the heart of the disciple, so much so, that even though falldowns are daily occurances, even hourly, the effect of the problem is that sincere desire for atonement outweighs the evil effects. Not the artificial confessional some movements create, not the willful Vaisnava aparadha of committing sinful acts thinking that forgiveness for such action is autoimatically guaranteed, but actual humility, disciple firmly becoming the dust on the street, underneath the straw. This taste, this understanding of our precarious position on the lap of Maya, is a rasa unto itself, aghast and dread.

 

How do we fix it, no matter if in the center of population with peers present or in the outback, in isolation, imprisoned, exiled, avadhuta, To follow the process of Harinama Haribol. If you gamble or mentally speculate (surrender to the thoughts produced by the mind), you lose the quality of truthfulness. If you eat forbidden, unclean foodstuffs, you cannot live simply and austerity is not even seen as a desireable thing to possess. If you intoxicate yourself, you cannot forgive, you have no mercy, you cannot say the Lord's prayer without changing the part about asking God to forgive you as you forgive tresspasses against you. If you are indiscriminate in sensual relationships, there cannot be any cleanliness in your life, even if you can avoid std's.

 

The restrictions presented by Srila Prabhupada are scientific, to follow means to strengthen one's spiritual position by naturally becoming clean, austere, truthful, and merciful to others. Simple, but not easy. The gift is the Holy Names of Sri Govinda, especially Sri Hrsikesa. When He hears This Name, He specifically takes charge of one's desire to attempt compliance with the prescription given by the good Physician, Sri Gurudeva, and He cuts the habits, He makes them more profoundly bitter, increases the understanding of the sincere disciple, of the necessity of strengthening these four pillars of the mansion He has designed for us. Every day is a challenge, today, alone, but not noticibly greater that when cloistered in temple life years ago.

 

There is mental compliance that may be valueless, that is, attraction by anger. Some may become upset that others are not in complete compliance. They hate the restrictions, and they envy the blooper who smokes dope, only because they want to smoke dope, but cannot due to their overbearing religious ritual. What good are these empty cups? Srila Prabhupada never taught voidism, false renunciation, jada yoga, or any other "empty cup" philosophies. He empties the storehouse of prema-bhakti in service to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and distributes It's contents, to us, to fill our cups, and as we taste more and more, and want more and more, the poison in our cups is diluted, purified, and gradually brought to the position that only the bhakti remains, so much so, that we MUST distribute in his service ourselves. This is his truth, "Oh my Lord, Your Holy Name, ALONE, renders all benediction upon the living beings. Therefore You have Hundred and Millions of Names, like Sri Govinda, Sri Gopala. Unfortunate am I, for I have no attraction."

 

Respect is shown when a writer re-reads his material to check for errors. It is not just a writing, the consciousness should be that of making a preparation of prasadam for the Lord and His associates, not just throwing lunch together for our own tongue's devourment. As far as content goes, I, too, at times, struggle through it all. But have not devotees been told to shut up for too long? Srila Prabhupada never said that we must prop up an artificial religion based on Varna-asrama Dharma, he requested that we try to cooperate with each other. Long ago, long before internet, I decided that a certain society was not my cup of nectar, I was not anxious to experiance such. Controlled my ears with my feet, but where did that leave me? Alone. At home in the body and away from the Lord. Yet Lord Jesus Christ says, no matter, serve the Lord. At work, with family and friends. The Holy Names Alone render all benediction among the living beings, we must become more attracted.

Hare Krsna, All glories to the assembled devotees, ys, mahaksadasa

[gHari 0]

Thank you. That is an important piece, almost refined to perfection. This is my favorite, Max. It is you. It is Prabhupada. It is Paramatma. It is all that I love in this world. Please continue.

[AncientMariner 0]

It is clear to me that Jesus showed the symptoms of a wandering mendicant preacher of the Lord with no regard for bodily happiness or distress. I wonder if he was fully inside aware of the contents of Srimad Bhagavatam and the Lord instructed him to preach according to time and place so there was things he didn't fully reveal.

[Gaea 0]

This is so nice Good timing, too!!

[Guest guest]

Haribol, and thanks for your comments. Lord Jesus Christ, like all acaryas, comes to give us what we need to go back home, so of course, time and place considerations are there. This article kinda glazes over the initiation mantra Lord Jesus Christ gives his disciples (mainly because emphasis was given to Mother Mary's devotional attitude, her revelations to Elizabeth, mother of John). However, in the Lords Prayer, we find many vaisnava characteristics, commitment, revelation as to who Jesus is, etc.

 

First and foremost, Lord Jesus engages us in the chanting and honor given to the Name of the Supreme Lord. "Hallowed" means more than just honor, it actually means worshippable. Lord Jesus makes clear that the worship of the holy (hallowed) Name of the Father is non-different than direct worship of the Father. Thus, as discussed in another current topic, he give us the FULL process for perfection in this age.

 

So, I cannot concur that he leaves something out. Some say that Srila Prabhupada glazed over raganuga bhakti because of the immaturity and disqualification of his students, which is also not at all a fact. But we, as students, have to have the ears to hear, and we have to be able to pick up on things, such as Prabhupadas insistance that the sum total of all vedic knowledge is contained and fully realized in the simple utterance of the Names of the Supreme Lord.

 

I remember studying the cover of the second Volume of Srimad Bhagavatam. We see insiude the lotus, lord Krsna and Srimati Radharani engaged in the pastimes of Goloka Vrndavan. When we look to the swide, we also see Lord Chaitanyas samkirtana party, meaning that to hear of the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha Krsna, and subsequently chant these glories, we are also fully engaged in madurya rasa, confirmed by Srila Ramananda Raya as the highest flavor. So we do not have to become gopis, rather, we assist them fully by singing about their pastimes.

 

Did Lord Jesus teach Srimad Bhagavatam?

 

I think he did in full, and Ill explain later. As preview, I will go to the original Srimad Bhagavatam, which consists of four verses, and we will see if this is taught to the disciples of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

My computer is having a hard time waking up this morning, and I have to go to work (great job, best I ever had, great altruistic company, maybe Ill speak of it soon, Im a caretaker at a military graveyard, and the folks I hang with are so responsive, despite their obvious limitations).

 

Again, thanks for reading this topic. I was a bit concerned because of the length. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

It's nice to hear you have found a job like the one that you described. It sounds like a position in which you can be yourself, do much good for others, and earn alot of sukriti and punya by doing good deeds.

 

Many traditions hold that those who pray for people who have died all alone, in a state of fear, without last rites, or in wars, etc. receive very special blessings. Especially those who pray for the souls in cemeteries who may still be suffering are supposed to receive alot of merit, according to what I've read about Catholicism and some other traditions as well.

 

This sounds like a nice arrangement because of your interest in Christianity. Not everyone has an attraction to that religious tradition. But if it is an area of interest for you, then this sounds like a place where you can be yourself and enhance the experience for those who come there who may be primarily of that tradition.

 

It's nice when people find a service to do in which they can utilize all of their life experiences and utilize all of their esoteric knowledge to benefit others.

[mahak 0]

Haribol. Thank you for your comments, bhij. Before this season turns to Martin Luther King (which I never oppose), Ill post the following, to exemplify that there are other sources for the nectar of the vaisnava teachings of Lord Jesus Christ than found in the compilations of henry bacon and william shakespeare in service to their king james.

 

<CENTER>MOTHER & SON

The story of the Pearl by mahaksadasa</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

Israel defines as "wife of God". In the canonized scripture of Lord Jesus Christ Lila, Mary, the Axumite Hebrew Mother of Lord Jesus Christ is also described as without contamination. Her position as nitya-siddha, born without flaw and cognizant of swarupa, is verified, Her eternal activities outside the material strata are also hinted, but more extensively described in various extra-biblical studies. Mary, the embodiment of the concept of "Israel", is none other that Srimati Laxmidevi, the constant companion of Sri Narayana. The transcendental appearance of the saktivesa avatara, Lord Jesus Christ, is through the arrangement of Sri Sri Laxmi Narayana, a presentation of empowered son to the world.

 

The Bible, as well as the Veda, verifies that the Supreme Lord is approached through the via medium of His confidential Son, associate, friend, parent, and consort. Lord Jesus Christ states His relationship with His Father and beacons us to proceed through Him. Through Him, the spiritual world of variegatedness is experianced and the whole story of transcendental relationship is known. Father sends wife (Israel) and Son to reclaim His Own.

 

Though non-Catholic Christians do not actively vilify the esteemed position of Mary, they nevertheless consider Her ordinary. The Catholic may know of Her glory, yet does not emphasize Her relationship with Sri Narayana. Perhaps the canon process begun in the 4th century after the appearance of Lord Jesus Christ started this minimization of Her glory, yet her activities both in this realm and Her described eternal service confirm Her extraordinary Love of God, pure Bhakti yoga.

 

By failing to recognize the intercession of Mary, those who claim to follow Lord Jesus Christ may fall quite short of tasting actual flavor of rasa. Many follow Him but cannot conceive of actually being with Him as He is. Even the beginnings of actual love of God, the peacefulness of spirit upon witnessing His activities (santa rasa), cannot be attained without seeing Him in relationship with His eternal associates. Without proper appreciation of Mother presenting Her Glorious Son to the world, there is no pleasing of the Son, the Father, or any of the associates. Home is never seen.

Some folks of other cultural background may neglect the whole subject of Lord Jesus Christ Lila, stating disinterest, but those who can distinguish devotee from one simply in forgetfulness of sanatana dharma will gladly hear of all the activities of the Vaisnava, cultural and other bodily distinctions are never considered.

 

Lord Jesus Christ has returned to the Home of His Father. It is described by valid writings that He sits on His throne at the right hand of the Father. Any ideas that negate this ultimate appreciation of His teachings are not authoritative and obviously a concoction of man. This vision of Two Thrones is, therefore, reality, and denial of the separate individuality of both the Father and the Son must be rejected.

 

The vision and teaching of two thrones is verification of the principles of Vaisnavism, which can also be referred to as understanding of transcendental relationships (rasa). The entirity of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings is based on His demonstration of such rasa, thus Lord Jesus Christ can also be rightfully called acarya. If one accepts the teaching of this wonderful Father-Son relationship, one can also appreciate the variegatedness of such a Kingdom, with noone left out, all able to relate in a very intimate way. The invitation is available for all to take part.

Mata Mary is the created vehicle for the Fathers Desire to demonstrate the eternal natural realm to this world of death, confusion, and forgetfulness. In part one of this essay, Mary is referred to as nitya-siddha. Many Christians, when they hear the phrase "immaculate conception", they think this refers to God taking birth from a human being, but this is incorrect. Immaculate conception is the story of the birth of Mary, not Her glorious Son. The phrase is similar to nitya-siddha, meaning one who is born without material contamination, not affected and entrapped by the world of time, not bound by illusion, not forgetful of sanatana-dharma.

 

The actual story of the method in which the Supreme Lord places His Wife, Israel, into the world to facilitate His Son's glorious mission of reclaiming the fallen souls is described in many ways, as the culture of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings spread world wide (not just to Rome, as the Eurocentrist would have us believe.) His young disciple, John, went to the Orient, His older brothers, Didyamous Thomas and James, also traveled Eastward, through Persia to the west coast of India. There is also substantial evidence that the western hemisphere was given the version of Lord Jesus Christ centuries before the arrival of the European, their holocaust invasion which used the weapon of Jesus' assassination (the cross) as their symbol of domination.

 

The Story of the Pearl is from the tradition of Lord Jesus Christ that moved south into Ethiopia, the writings of royal succession from the throne of creation, known as Kebra Nagast. As the Father gave the rebellious Adam his Eve to help him in his rebellion, the Lord also placed Israel into him in the form of a Pearl. This pearl was not bound by biology, She defied logic in the way She passed from generation to generation, bypassing the unqualified and residing only with the righteous. She rested in the heart of Seth, Jacob, Isaac, Joseph, and Abraham, as She sees fitting. She became the psalms of David and the Wisdom of Solomon. King Solomon heard of Her journey as well as Her future resting place from the Angel/servant of the Father, Gabriel, who also tells King Solomon that the servant Michael has been instructed to construct an exact replica of Holy Zion wherever the Pearl resides. The Wife of Solomon, Makeda, the queen of Sheeba, tells her son, Menyelek, that the Pearl will continue Her Journey until She resides with Joachim and Hanna, the parents of Mary.

 

The Pearl has taken birth in this family by the direct arrangement of the Supreme Father, thus the Lord Jesus Christ becomes the shaktivesa avatara in this way. Mother Mary has many names, the morning star, the comforter of the afflicted, the refuge of the unfortunate, and continues to administer the Will of both Father and Son.

 

This essay is written to describe that the concept of "rasa" is not absent from the available writings of Lord Jesus Christ Katha. He does not teach nirvisesavad philosophy of merging with the supreme impersonal god, not does he entirely teach salvationism (although salvation comes automatically upon fulfillment of His desire), rather He describes the spiritual world and the personalities who reside there in order to attract the fallen to the realm of The Father who has sent Him.

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

You have submitted this essay for our consideration, and my consideration is this: why after 30 plus years later after being initiated by a pure devotee of Bhagavan Sri Krsna are you not meditating on the lilas of KRISHNA.

 

The reason why His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada set up temples with altars to KRSNA is so we can engage in sadhana bhakti: meditating on the SUPREME LORD SRI KRSNA so that at the time of death we can be transferred to the Spiritual Sky to THE HIGHEST REALM.

 

Even Jesus said, "In my Father's house there are MANY MANSIONS". He was speaking to barbaric people teaching them ABC. Why after 30 years of being initiated into the HIGHEST are you not practicing the HIGHEST?

 

Why do you not want to go and experience THE HIGHEST rasa and go to Goloka Vrndavana. Christ lila is it even exists at all, because it is not mentioned in the Vedas is not THE HIGHEST planet in the Spiritual Sky. So why in God's name do you want to waste this valuable human form of life thinking about lilas that for all we know may actually be a synthesis of the

myths of the God Mithras?

 

Prabhupada gave us the very highest teachings and by this constant meditation on these stories of Christianity you are sure to be transferred to some loka of the Christians. But I surely do not want to go there.

 

If you were some neophyte I could understand this obsession but you are an initiated disciple and have had Prabhupada's books, temples, lectures, recordings, disciples available for sadhu-sangha for years. You yourself have mentioned that the website of Bhaktivedanta Memorial Library has enough nectar there for LIFETIMES, so why don't you start meditating on the Names, Qualities, Forms from the authorized VEDIC SCRIPTURES WHICH ARE THE HIGHEST PLATFORM OF GOD REALIZATION?

 

By meditating on the BONA-FIDE forms of the Lord described in the Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads, and Agamas then we can attain THE HIGHEST. We develop samskaras or impressions which cumulatively lead to vrittis or waves of mental activities WHICH INFLUENCES OUR NEXT LIFE.

 

Why oh why in God's name if you are not a neophyte do you want to think about these pastimes of ABC for barbaric tribal people not mentioned in any Vedic scriptures? The saints have written so many things about Krsna if you believe in Krsna so why in the world do you not speak about Krsna and only Krsna?

 

If you believe in Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu then why do not not pick any of the saintly people or saintly texts in the Bhaktivedanta Memorial Library and read that and meditate on that? We have been given the very highest, so why do you not meditate on the very highest?

 

VNN 1/15 Tarun Krsna Das "Was Christ Brahma?" 1975 Miami Beach morning walk with Srila Prabhupada, paraphrased and summarized: We asked SP if JC is an incarnation of LB and he firmly replied, "Maybe!"

 

So how dare you say that Mary is no other than Laksmi, jumping over the head of your own spiritual master. How dare you. Why don't you read the writings of your own spiritual master? Why are you wasting your time reading what karmis have to say who are not following even the four regulative principles?

 

Jesus ate FISH. He drank WINE. Prabhupada has forbidden us to do that. It is not conducive for cultivation of bhakti. Why do you ADMIRE some religion that has as their sacrament intoxicants that Prabhupada has forbidden?

 

Prabhupada said to study Christianity then one must do so under a Christian priest, pastor, or minister. He said to do this if one cannot take to Krsna Consciousness and accept a bona-fide spiritual master coming in the chain of disciplic succession from Lord Krsna Himself. He said one must not study the scriptures alone. Yet this is what you are doing, endlessly speculating and making up your own pronouncements as to "Who's Who in the Spiritual World" which even His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada did not do, per Prabhupada's definitive answer to "Was Lord Jesus Christ Brahma?Maybe".

 

Why when one has been given the HIGHEST would one not want to be constantly absorbed in meditating on the authorized forms of the Lord as revealed in Vedic art, Vedic literature, and Vedic music? Especially you are old there is no time to waste, as death may come at any moment and our entire life will flash before our eyes at that time.

 

I don't know about you but I certainly want to go to the very HIGHEST realm and never come back to this material world again. Prabhupada implored one of his sannyasis, "Why can't you see that I have given you THE HIGHEST?!!!"

[Gaea 0]

Guest,

How do you know mahakji is not practicing the highest? He has just glorified Christ, which is a very right thing to do since He is the servant of the Lord. Has he given up Krsna worship in any way? No. And if you think he has - why do you think so?

 

Mahakji - I think your admiration for Christ after 30 yrs in Krsna worship is but a result of Krsna worship itself. It's truly fantastic to see devotees becoming more open minded than closed minded, which is as it should be.

[theist 1]

 

Guest,

How do you know mahakji is not practicing the highest? He has just glorified Christ, which is a very right thing to do since He is the servant of the Lord. Has he given up Krsna worship in any way? No. And if you think he has - why do you think so?

 

Mahakji - I think your admiration for Christ after 30 yrs in Krsna worship is but a result of Krsna worship itself. It's truly fantastic to see devotees becoming more open minded than closed minded, which is as it should be.

I also want to be able to appreciate the infinite and ever-expanding presence of the Lord whereever He is to be found. And if one can't see Krsna in Jesus I highly doubt he can see Him Prahlada Maharaja or Haridas Thakur.

[Guruvani 0]

Srila Prabhupada wrote in his books that Vasudeva Datta and Haridas Thakur were millions of times greater than Jesus.

So, why should we bother ourselves with Jesus when we have the great Vaishnavas to learn from?

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur did not accept that Jesus was the great universal teacher that he has been made out to be, since he only delivered his direct disciples.

The great Vaishnavas aren't out just to deliver their own disciples.

The want to deliver the whole universe and all the sinners.

Jesus was a small timer in the pantheon of spiritual teachers.

The great devotees of Mahaprabhu are all millions of times greater than Jesus, so why should we waste our time talking about Jesus?

 

 

Madhya 15.163

 

jīvera pāpa lañā muñi karoń naraka bhoga

sakala jīvera, prabhu, ghucāha bhava-roga

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

jīvera — of all conditioned souls; pāpa lañā — accepting the sinful reactions; muñi — I; karoń — do; naraka — hellish life; bhoga — experience; sakala jīvera — of all living entities; prabhu — my dear Lord; ghucāha — please finish; bhava-roga — the material disease.

TRANSLATION

"My dear Lord, let me suffer perpetually in a hellish condition, accepting all the sinful reactions of all living entities. Please finish their diseased material life."

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura gives the following commentary on this verse. In the Western countries, Christians believe that Lord Jesus Christ, their spiritual master, appeared in order to eradicate all the sins of his disciples. To this end, Lord Jesus Christ appeared and disappeared. Here, however, we find Śrī Vāsudeva Datta Ṭhākura and Śrīla Haridāsa Ṭhākura to be many millions of times more advanced even when compared with Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ relieved only his followers from all sinful reactions, but Vāsudeva Datta is here prepared to accept the sins of everyone in the universe. So the comparative position of Vāsudeva Datta is millions of times better than that of Lord Jesus Christ. A Vaiṣṇava is so liberal that he is prepared to risk everything to rescue the conditioned souls from material existence. Śrīla Vāsudeva Datta Ṭhākura is universal love itself, for he was willing to sacrifice everything and fully engage in the service of the Supreme Lord.

Śrīla Vāsudeva Datta knew very well that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was the original Personality of Godhead, Transcendence itself, above the material conception of illusion and māyā. Lord Jesus Christ certainly finished the sinful reactions of his followers by his mercy, but that does not mean he completely delivered them from the pangs of material existence. A person may be relieved from sins once, but it is a practice among Christians to confess sins and yet commit them again. By getting freed from sins and again engaging in them, one cannot attain freedom from the pangs of material existence. A diseased person may go to a physician for relief, but after he leaves the hospital he may again be infected due to his unclean habits. Thus material existence continues. Śrīla Vāsudeva Datta wanted to completely relieve the conditioned souls from material existence so that they would no longer have an opportunity to commit sinful acts. This is the significant difference between Śrīla Vāsudeva Datta and Lord Jesus Christ. It is a great offense to receive pardon for sins and then commit the same sins again. Such an offense is more dangerous than the sinful activity itself. Vāsudeva Datta was so liberal that he requested Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to transfer all offensive activity upon him so the conditioned souls would be purified and go back home, back to Godhead. This prayer was certainly without duplicity.

Vāsudeva Datta's example is unique not only within this world but within the universe. It is beyond the conception of fruitive actors or the speculation of mundane philosophers. Due to being illusioned by the external energy and due to a poor fund of knowledge, people tend to envy one another. Because of this they are entangled in fruitive activity, and they try to escape this fruitive activity by mental speculation. Consequently neither karmīs nor jñānīs are purified. In the words of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Ṭhākura, they are kukarmīs and kujñānīs — bad fruitive actors and bad speculators. The Māyāvādīs and karmīs should therefore turn their attention to the magnanimous Vāsudeva Datta, who wanted to suffer for others in a hellish condition. No one should consider Vāsudeva Datta a mundane philanthropist or welfare worker. Nor was he interested in merging into the Brahman effulgence or in gaining material honor or reputation. He was far, far above philanthropists, philosophers and fruitive actors. He was the most exalted personality to ever show mercy to the conditioned souls. This is not an exaggeration of his transcendental qualities. It is perfectly true. Actually, there cannot be any comparison to Vāsudeva Datta. As the perfect Vaiṣṇava, he was para-duḥkha-duḥkhī, very much aggrieved to see others suffer. The entire world is purified simply by the appearance of such a great devotee. Indeed, by his transcendental presence the whole world is glorified and all conditioned souls are also glorified. As Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura confirms, Vāsudeva Datta is the ideal devotee of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu:

gaurāńgera sańgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kari' māne,

se yāya vrajendrasuta-pāśa

One who executes Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission must be considered eternally liberated. He is a transcendental person and does not belong to this material world. Such a devotee, engaging in the deliverance of the total population, is as magnanimous as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself.

namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te

kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ

[Madhya 19.53]

Such a personality factually represents Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu because his heart is always filled with compassion for all conditioned souls.

 

 

We would do better to be discussing about the great devotees of Mahaprabhu than talking all kinds of sentimental jibberish about Jesus.

[theist 1]

 

 

 

 

We would do better to be discussing about the great devotees of Mahaprabhu than talking all kinds of sentimental jibberish about Jesus.

So don't come on this thread moron. It is that simple.

 

Mahaksadas starts a thread glorifying Lord Jesus Christ and along comes Guruvani and pisses on the sacrifical fire while cloaking himself as a "Prabhupada vani only man". Of course he only selectively accepts Prabhupada's vani on certain subjects.

 

Let's see if he accepts Prabhupada's vani here:

 

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then how would you adapt the Krishna chanting to Christianity? By seeing Krishna as Christ or Christ as Krishna and sounding Christ's image in Krishna's name?

 

Prabhupada: Krishna, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And Krishna says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Krishna [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. So if anyone loves Krishna, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love Krishna. If he says, "Why shall I love Krishna? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands Krishna, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand Krishna.

[Guruvani 0]

The topic is about "the Vaishnava teachings of Jesus", but if Jesus was a Vaishnava and taught Vaishnavism, then why is it said that simple Hare Krishna devotees like Vasudeva Datta and Haridas Thakur are millions of times greater than Jesus?

 

If Jesus actually was a Vaishnava and taught Vaishnavism, then I don't think that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur would have said that Vasudeva Datta and Haridas Thakur were millions of times greater than Jesus.

 

In fact, one direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada once told me that Srila Prabhupada told him that Jesus was (jnana-misra) tinged with impersonalism.

 

Jesus never taught anything about the form of God.

Jesus was an impersonalist having brahma-jnana.

 

Jesus had no known connection to any authorized parampara.

 

Why should a Gaudiya Vaishnava give his teachings any recognition?

[mahak 0]

Or should I, on this thread, say "pray as I do. Our Supreme Father, Who resides in the Spiritual World, All Glories to your Holy Names."

 

If one REALLY reads what I have written, they will certainly see this:

 

"Many devotees do not care to hear about Lord Jesus Christ, and their reasons are not altogether unfounded nor ill-advised, for the common beliefs about this important Acarya are mired in speculations of the mukti-bhukti habits common to man-made-religionists. Yet, even with this disclaimer of no pure sampradaya, Srila Prabhupada made clear points about Lord Jesus Christ that no one can deny. Had rejection of this devotee been the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, there would be no mention of His validity in his books. But this is not the case, and, as I do not provide citations to verify, I encourage all his followers to research his books to find out what he actually says about Him."

 

So I have no trouble with those who dont care to hear about Lord Jesus Christ. Theist makes a great point, just go away, close your ears. We can have other discussions elsewhere. Time and time again, in all my writings about Lord Jesus Christ, I have clearly stated the dire problems with those who pretend to be his followers. Srila Prabhupada disregards his followers. Lord Jesus Christ tells these fools to get away from him "For I never knew you". I have not taken up the weapon of Lord Jesus Christs assassination to force religion on anyone.

 

However, this thread is for spiritual discussion. Some like to speak of Swami Narayana, some speak of Adwaitism, and I never go there, theology is not interesting to me at all. It is not mandatory for readers to make comments on threads that they dont care for. However, there is the right of those who want to share the glories of vaisnavas to do so without interferance. The three great acaryas in our line, Srila Bhaktivinode, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and Srila Prabhupada, have all declared Lord Jesus Christ to be a vaisnava, and have all praised his efforts to relieve the suffering and revive the dormant God Consciousness of all.

 

A writer seems to think that Jesus Christ is ordinary. However, this is greatly offensive, thinking any vaisnava is ordinary. One can cut and paste quotes concerning mundane salvationists pledging allegiance to Lord Jesus Christ, completely ignoring quotes concerning the actual position of Lord Jesus Christ, but their minimization of Lord Jesus Christ is quite ludicrous (meaning laughable). If he is so minimal, why does Srila Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta, and Bhaktivinode even mention Him?

 

The truth comes from Lord Jesus Christ Himself: (John 8: 54) "If I were to glorify Myself, that glory of Mine would mean nothing. But, in fact, My Father glorifies Me, and all who do His Will will see this relationship." The glory of Lord Jesus Christ comes from the Supreme Lord. If one seeks to kill Lord Jesus Christ in order to maintain their religion, then I call them christians, because this is exactly what they have done. All these naysayers, refusing to accept that a devotee has a right to glorify a simple vaisnava who the Supreme Lord has made famous for two millenia because of his work to remind the suffering masses of their actual reciprocal loving exchange with the Supreme Lord, are the fanatic religionists here.

 

So, if one wants to discuss Srila Haridas Thakur, start a thread. You will never see me there questioning his religious roots, how many followers he has, or any such thing. I will gladly offer all the wonderful things as I have heard them. Better yet, lets discuss Srila Iswara Puri, whom nobody ever starts a thread to glorify, even though he acts as guru maharaja to Lord Chaitanya Himself. Or lets discuss Sri Vidura, the most level headed person in all the mahabharata. But such threads are not starter, the detractors here have nothing to offer concerning these great vaisnavas either, because if vaisnavism is not recognized in one, vaisnavism can not be recognized anywhere. But to place one vaisnava over another is very idiotic, as idiotic as empiricists placing ones rasa as better than anothers.. Some may not care to hear from Vidura through the devotee describing him. I have seen in this so-called hindu thread claims that Karna is better than arjuna, I have heard so much nonsense of comparison. It doesnt bother me, because I consider the source. Those who say Lord Jesus Christ is no big deal, okay, I accept hes no big deal, to you. So I have one question to ask:

 

What made you push enter on the topic titled "Vaisnava Teachings of Lord Jesus Christ". Do you desire to defeat Him once and for all? Good luck, you have my complete support, because Im not a fanatic trying to convert you to some fools religion. But His fame does not come from him. Neither did Srila Prabhupada become famous by his actions. Fame is the property of the Supreme Lord. And fame is described as only beneficial if such fame is because one is in loving devotion of the Supreme Lord. The fame of Lord Jesus Christ is not mundane fame, it is transcendental to all ones mundane speculations.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

 

Jesus never taught anything about the form of God.

Jesus was an impersonalist having brahma-jnana.

 

 

Therefore you find today in reliable public-opinion poll, 96% of present Israelis claiming to not believe in a personal God - are atheistic disbelievers.

[mahak 0]

Concerning the "prabhupada said" above, I am a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada, The devotee I heard about LJC from is also a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada, who was a christian scholar prior to entering the movement, who was told to continue with his studies of the actual position of LJC, and to present him in a proper way. Im not a name dropper, but this devotee was one of the originals, who did not become wierd, and his voice can be heard singing Om purnama adah purnam idam on the radha krsna temple album produced by george harrison.

[Guest guest]

Sri Brahma-Samhita Text 5 by BSS

 

"The different locations of the devotees...according to the respective differences in the nature of their rasa are settled by the inconceivable power of Krsna".

 

[This text and purport is a description of the Spiritual World. Sri Krsna Himself places some devotees HIGHER and LOWER.]

 

 

 

 

Back to Godhead April 5, 1960

Purport to Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu of Sri Rupa Goswami by ACBSP

 

"Rasa is psychologically described as sense perception..."

 

 

[Rasa is how you are perceiving something.]

 

 

"...with the Gopis therefore the HIGHEST transcendental quality of Rasa is reciprocated by the Lord...Sri Narottamadas recommends to the SERIOUS students of Rasa science to surrender to the protection of the merciful Goswamis to bestow their HIGHEST gift of benediction in the matters of the loving affairs of Radha and Krsna."

 

[Jesus did not teach THE HIGHEST Rasa science. Therefore SERIOUS students of Rasa science are not directed to Jesus by Narottamadas Thakur]

[theist 1]

Hey Mahak, F*** these offensive crows. I am ready to wipe the dust of their cyber association and head for the next town. Shame as there are more folks here who are pleasure to hear fro even in disagreement then this self styled crusader for Prabhupada Vani (and his fellow squaking crow known as guestwho won't accept straight what Prabhupada said of the matter).

 

This character who considers himself so fillest with the HIGHEST taste in rasa, but who spends his time stepping on others faith (and is allowed to do it with impunity) is another one whose association should be avoided.

 

Looks like the only way to avoid them is to leave myself.

[Guruvani 0]

The fatherhood of Godhead is a repugnant concept in the Gaudiya conception.

 

How can any devotee of Krishna be interested in some Jesus who taught that God is the father who supplies bread?

 

Give us this day our daily bread?

 

Sure, that is what the father God does.......

 

he supplies bread...

 

God is my father the baker of bread and I am the lover of woman.

[gHari 0]

 

We would do better to be discussing about the great devotees of Mahaprabhu than talking all kinds of sentimental jibberish about Jesus.

That from someone who talks only of institutions.

[Guruvani 0]

 

That from someone who talks only of institutions.

 

I left the institutions 20 years ago, so you apparently have a big misunderstanding about me and institutions.

 

Please list some of my "talks of institutions" that you are refering to.

[gHari 0]

BG Intro

The Lord is very kind to the living entities because they are His sons. Lord KRSNa declares in Bhagavad-gItA, sarva-yoniSu. .. ahaM bIja-pradaH pitA: "I am the <B>father</b> of all." Of course there are all types of living entities according to their various karmas, but here the Lord claims that He is the <B>father</b> of all of them.

 

BG 3.24

The Lord is the <B>father</b> of all living entities, and if the living entities are misguided, indirectly the responsibility goes to the Lord. Therefore, whenever there is general disregard of regulative principles, the Lord Himself descends and corrects the society.

 

BG 6.29

In the smRti this is confirmed as follows: AtatatvAc ca mAtRtvAc ca AtmA hi paramo hariH. The Lord, being the source of all beings, is like the mother and the maintainer. As the mother is neutral to all different kinds of children, the supreme <B>father</b> (or mother) is also. Consequently the Supersoul is always in every living being.

 

BG 7.15

n fact, SrI KRSNa is said to be not only the <B>father</b> of BrahmA but also the <B>father</b> of all species of life. He is the root of the impersonal Brahman and ParamAtmA; the Supersoul in every entity is His plenary portion. He is the fountainhead of everything, and everyone is advised to surrender unto His lotus feet.

 

BG 7.21

As the supreme <B>father</b> of all living entities, He does not interfere with their independence, but gives all facilities so that they can fulfill their material desires. Some may ask why the all-powerful God gives facilities to the living entities for enjoying this material world and so lets them fall into the trap of the illusory energy.

 

BG 9.10

KRSNa also states in Bhagavad-gItA that of all of the living entities in different forms and species, "I am the <B>father</b>." The <B>father</b> gives seeds to the womb of the mother for the child, and similarly the Supreme Lord by His mere glance injects all the living entities into the womb of material nature, and they come out in their different forms and species, according to their last desires and activities.

 

BG 9.17

I am the <B>father</b> of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier and the syllable oM. I am also the Rg, the SAma and the Yajur Vedas.

 

BG 9.18

And since KRSNa is the source of our generation, or the supreme <B>father</b>, no one can be a better friend than KRSNa, nor can anyone be a better well-wisher. KRSNa is the original source of creation and the ultimate rest after annihilation. KRSNa is therefore the eternal cause of all causes.

 

BG 10.15

Yet many liberated persons cannot understand KRSNa as PuruSottama, the Supreme Person. Therefore Arjuna addresses Him as PuruSottama. Yet one still may not understand that KRSNa is the <B>father</b> of all living entities. Therefore Arjuna addresses Him as BhUta-bhAvana. And if one comes to know Him as the <B>father</b> of all the living entities, still one may not know Him as the supreme controller; therefore He is addressed here as BhUteza, the supreme controller of everyone. And even if one knows KRSNa as the supreme controller of all living entities, still one may not know that He is the origin of all the demigods; therefore He is addressed herein as Devadeva, the worshipful God of all demigods. And even if one knows Him as the worshipful God of all demigods, one may not know that He is the supreme proprietor of everything; therefore He is addressed as Jagatpati. Thus the truth about KRSNa is established in this verse by the realization of Arjuna, and we should follow in the footsteps of Arjuna to understand KRSNa as He is.

 

BG 11.43

You are the <B>father</b> of this complete cosmic manifestation, of the moving and the nonmoving. You are its worshipable chief, the supreme spiritual master. No one is equal to You, nor can anyone be one with You. How then could there be anyone greater than You within the three worlds, O Lord of immeasurable power?

[Avinash 0]

 

How can any devotee of Krishna be interested in some Jesus who taught that God is the father who supplies bread?

 

Please pardon my ignorance. I do not have much of knowledge of the teachings of Vaishnavism and of Jesus to compare between Jesus's teachings and Vaishnavism.

 

Howver, I can say with certainty that there is nothing wrong in Jesus requesting God (Father) to supply daily bread. If God provides everything, then He provides bread (food in general) too. It is quite obvious.

 

One thing surprises me. I never consider myself as some big devotee. Even now, there are many things written in scriptures, which I find difficult or rather almost impossible to believe, if taken literally. I do not become angry if I meet those who deny the existence of God. I discuss with them provided they are really interested in discussion. But there are some people who very assertively (sometimes aggressively) defend theism. But what is an obvious inference of the existence of God is not obvious to them but it is obvious to me even their belief is far stronger than mine. This is what surprises me.

[Guest guest]

[from a room conversation with TKG, Giriraja, Bali Mardan, Indian man]

 

SUMMARY:

"So don't bother about all these literatures..."

 

Conversation excerpts:

"...Regarding books like Aquarian Gospel or even the Testaments WE CANNOT ACCEPT AS AUTHORITIES...So don't bother about all these literatures...WE HAVE GOT VOLUMES OF BOOKS ALSO so it is better to mind our own business THAN TO DIVERT OUR ATTENTION IN THE STUDIES OF OTHER BOOKS. THIS WAS DEFINITELY FORBIDDEN BY LORD CHAITANYA...

 

"After all, KC is over 120 million years old...And to learn this transcendental art we have got SO MANY VOLUMES OF BOOKS. SO THE SUMMARY IS THAT INSTEAD OF DIVERTING OUR ATTENTION TO READ SUCH UNAUTHORIZED BOOKS, BETTER PAY OUR ATTENTION TO MORE AUTHORIZED VAISNAVA LITERATURE...

 

"WE NEEDN'T SPEND OUR TIME IN STUDYING THEIR DOCTRINES. YOU SHOULD READ OUR OWN BOOKS. We DO NOT CONCERN OURSELVES WITH ANY OTHER RELIGION."

 

from www gauranga org files jesus

 

[this defeats the argument that Kedar Nagast is a bona fide scripture and that we should spend our time studying it. Prabhupada says that "we have got regard" for any teacher like Buddha, Jesus, or Mohammed but "we do not

study their scriptures" as "it is definitely forbidden by Lord Chaitanya"]

[Guruvani 0]

Is Krishna the father of Radharani?

Is Krishna the father of Mother Yashoda?

Is Krishna the father of Balaram?

Is Krishna the father of Nanda Maharaja?

Is Krishna the father of Subal Sakha?

 

My point is that, in the Vraja bhakti that Mahaprabhu came to give, the conception of God as father spoils everything and none of the devotees in Vrindavan see Krishna as their father.

 

DUH, we all know that Krishna is the fountainhead of all living entities.

 

On the spiritual plane where souls originate there is no conception of God as father.

 

God is the lover of the soul more than he is the father.

 

Krishna appreciates when his devotees see him as lover more than as father.

 

No pure devotee on Goloka thinks Krishna is his father.

 

The fatherhood of God is a pathetic conception that conditioned souls of this material foster.

 

It's not the way that Krishna really wants the living entities to relate with him.

Mahaprabhu made that point quite clear.

 

If you think God is your father then you have made a quantum leap backwards to the stone-age of spirituality.