His Natural Spiritual Master

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Well I'm not perfect and you know a lot more than me. So clarification may be needed here.

 

Puri. Guest of Melodies meant to say "Jagannath Puri", methinks. He's too intoxicated by Krishna Prem--he is seeing Puri everywhere.

[muralidhar_das]

 

...Or that ISKCON could accept that, "you can't learn everything from one guru". Or that Sridhar Maharaj did not accept having Rathayatra ANYWHERE outside of Navadvip!

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by muralidhar_das

ANYWHERE outside of Navadvip!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Surely you mean to say something diifferent frrom what you wrote.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Well I'm not perfect and you know a lot more than me. So clarification may be needed here.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj approved of devotees attending the Ratha Yatra in Puri and he also appreciated that in Nabadwip it was appropriate to have a Ratha-yatra of Sri Gauranga, as conceived by Thakura Bhaktivinode.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj spoke again and again about the Ratha Yatra pastimes in Puri that Sri Chaitanyadeva participated in.

 

If you want to know what Srila Sridhar Maharaj's ideas about Ratha-yatra are, first of all it is necessary to carefully study all the incidents mentioned in Chaitanya Charitamrta. Now, since most people on this forum have not CAREFULLY and I mean CAREFULLY studied those pastimes, it is not something that people should debate on this Audarya Debates Forum.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj openly stated that he had a different point of view from most of his Godbrothers. The situation is not dissimilar to the "debate" between Srivasa Pandit and Svarupa Damodara after the Ratha-yatra, as you can read about CC Madhya 14

 

 

CC Madhya 14.203: At this time, Srivasa Thakura smiled and told Svarupa Damodara, "My dear sir, please hear! Just see how opulent my goddess of fortune is!

CC Madhya 14.204: "As far as Vrindavana's opulence is concerned, it consists of a few flowers and twigs, some minerals from the hills, a few peacock feathers and the plant known as gunja.

 

 

It is absurd to say that Srila Sridhar Maharaj and other Gaudiya Math Acharyas were all teaching the same lessons.

 

Different classrooms, different folks, different discussions. That is how it is.

 

 

 

7-8-82

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: And Bhaktivinode Thakura has written in his aspiration of dhama lila that when the day will come that from near Srivasa Angana I shall look after that sannyasi vesh of Mahaprabhu and try to bring him to Srivasa Angana. Just as Mahaprabhu in Puri and the gopis in Kuruksetra. They find Krishna not in the same dress so they aspire atter union only in Vrndavana. And Mahaprabhu in Puri also while taking from Jagannatha Temple to Gundica garden, the same aspiration and taking Krishna to Vrndavana as He promised in Kuruksetra, He will come very soon to Vrndavana. Here, Bhaktivinode Thakura, he expressed his aspiration, inner earnestness that sannyasa clad Caitanya Deva is not desirable for us. We want that Gauranga who continued sankirtana day and night in Srivasa Angana. When I shall get that Gauranga. Home Gauranga and not sannyasi Gauranga. It is giving much pain to the hearts ol the devotees and He is practicing penances, penances of a sannyasi, which the devotee cannot tolerate. So we aspire after that Gauranga who was with the devotees of Navadvip, continued in Nama sankirtana. That grhastha Gauranga we want and not a sannyasi Gauranga. With this aspiration, Bhaktivinode Thakura, it is mentioned there. The chariot pastimes should take place in Nabadwip, then it should take place from the Jahnava (Ganges) to Srivasa Angana, not otherwise. In consonnance with the eternal lila of Nabadwip, a chariot as it was done in Puri, to take sannyasi Gauranga, that is, Dwaraka Krishna, to Srivasa Angana, Vrndavana. That was the idea of Bhaktivinode Thakura. In Nabadwip bhajana lallasa, he expressed his lallasa that three things are my inner aspiration. Bhaktivinode Thakura expressed. You can go through that booklet, it is a songbook. And I do not know if anyone who will come to satisfy that hint of practice, if anyone will come.

 

Devotee: He wanted to have Ratha Yatra Brajanagar to Srivasa Angana.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: You can find reference in that book, Bajana lalasa perhaps the name of his book.

 

Devotee: Yes, we would like to do that very much.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Sannyasi Gauranga has been compared with, in this Dwaraka, to the Nabadwip worship. Nabadwip. Sannyasa not desirable. Sannyasa is not desirable for the parshada of Nabadwip, that we lost Gauranga. Just as Mahaprabhu went to help the other, so many souls, the others in bondage. Krishna also came out from Vrndavana lila to organize help, political help to the people at large to solve the administration, the Kamsa administration, Jarasandara administration. And other administration at that time was very bad type, demonic type. So to release the public from that sort of maladministration Krishna came out from Vrndavana to help the public. And here also Mahaprabhu came out of His Nabadwip lila to help the ordinary souls to get out from that bondage. But just as gopis did not like that He will come out to help the public by improving the general administration of the country, so also Nabadwip people did not want that Mahaprabhu leave Nabadwip and that He will go and he will work for the public throughout the world leaving them [Nabadwip-vasis] alone here..

 

[Guest guest]

 

Puri. Guest of Melodies meant to say "Jagannath Puri", methinks. He's too intoxicated by Krishna Prem--he is seeing Puri everywhere.

Yeah maybe he's too dyslexic to go hunt'n with us. We might get shot.

[Guruvani]

 

Yeah, but these North Florida boys like fight'n too much. Why don't Guruvani and Mr. Melody-Boy engage their fight'n Ksatriya propensities and meet us down at Lochloosa Lake and we'll get us some deer (once a month, 50 rounds) and offer it to a demigod.

 

Well, I am just a hardcore veggie at heart.

If I wanted to eat some meat I surely would because I don't hestitate to fulfill any other sense desire that crosses my mind.

 

I am not going to expound on my faults and foibles which are many, but eating meat is just beyond my range of possibilities.

 

If I did eat some meat it would have to be some fresh fish, but even that doesn't tempt me.

 

Meat eating is not one of my tendencies.

 

I have dreamed that I accidently ate meat and I woke up in tears.

 

So, as long as there is some fresh fruit, veggies, grains and milk available - I will never resort to meat eating.

 

The thought of eating meat terrifies me.

 

But, that doesn't mean I couldn't open fire on an aggresive demon in self-defense and not lose a moments sleep over it.

[Beggar]

Rtvik is a Concept by which

we measure our pain

I'll say it again

Rtvik is a Concept by which

we measure our pain

I don't believe in Jayatirtha,

I don't believe in Kirtanananda,

I don't believe in Ramesvara,

I don't believe in Bhavananda,

I don't believe in Satsvarupa,

I don't believe in Bhagavan,

I don't believe in Jayapataka,

I don't believe in Harikesha,

I don't believe in Hrdayananda,

I don't believe in Tamal,

I don't believe in Hamsaduta,

I don't believe in Elvis,

I don't believe in Zimmerman,

I don't believe in Beatles,

I just believe in me,

Rtvik and me,

And that's reality.

The dream is over,

What can I say?

The dream is over,

Yesterday,

I was sincere,

But now I'm bogus,

I was a sannyasi,

But now I'm done,

And so dear friends,

You just have to carry on,

The dream is over.

[muralidhar_das]

This reminds me of a song my cousin Neil wrote

 

Now I'm towing my car, there's a hole in the roof

My possessions are causing me suspicion but there's no proof

In the paper today tales of war and of waste

But you turn right over to the T.V. page

Now I'm walking again to the beat of a drum

And I'm counting the steps to the door of your heart

Only shadows ahead barely clearing the roof

Get to know the feeling of liberation and relief

Hey now, hey now

Don't dream it's over

Hey now, hey now

When the world comes in

They come, they come

To build a wall between us

Don't ever let them win

[Guruvani]

but, in the shastra it most oftens speaks in terms of "accepting a spiritual master", and no very much in terms of "the spiritual master must accept you".

 

I believe that if you accept the spiritual master and follow his instructions that it's not as important that he must personally accept you in some formal initiation ceremony.

 

I believe that the instructions of guru, sadhu and shastra are there for anyone to accept and follow and that being formally accepted by the spiritual master is not essential.

 

The Paramatma is always there in the heart and he knows when a sincere soul is sincerly seeking to serve Krishna with love.

 

Srila Prabhupada said several times that "if you are following my instructions initiation is already there".

 

Every living entity has the constitutional nature to serve Krishna.

It's his inborn right.

 

Being officially accepted as a disciple is not as important as following the instructions of the bona fide spiritual master.

 

I don't see any special magic in some neophyte devotee playing guru and initiating a "disciple".

 

It's just a big fraud for the most part.

 

If we are going to get real technical about the shastric injunction about approaching a spiritual master, then everyone has to be a brahmacary and hauling in a load of wood when we approach the spiritual master.

[Guest guest]

guruvani states: "but, in the shastra it most oftens speaks in terms of "accepting a spiritual master", and no very much in terms of "the spiritual master must accept you".

 

I believe that if you accept the spiritual master and follow his instructions that it's not as important that he must personally accept you in some formal initiation ceremony.

 

I believe that the instructions of guru, sadhu and shastra are there for anyone to accept and follow and that being formally accepted by the spiritual master is not essential."

 

mahaksadasa: Srila Prabhupada has different teachings. It is he Who clearly states that the Guru must examine the disciple to see if he is fit. Science of Self Realization. It is He who presents the bhaktivedanta purports of Srimad Bhagavatam, in which he teaches that a spiritual master is inspired to appear before a sincere candidate for Bhakti (First Canto, story of the appearance of Srila Sukadeva Goswami.) The "beliefs" of the revisionists concerning the non-necessity of establishing an intimate, internal, and reciprocal relationship between guru and disciple are just that, beliefs, and do noty jive at all with the science of Krsna Consciousness in regard to accepting a spiritual master.

 

Some have made a career for themselves by saying guru does not even have to be consulted about whom he accepts as disciple. So we get these folks initiating themselves, saying they are disciples of a past acarya, creating cheap apisiddhanta. It is so much easier than really approaching a guru, who may see the unfitness of such foolishness, and reject. Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the best disciple of them all, me, I am fit, therefore Ill make the acarya accept me, and ill even name myself on his behalf (whew, Im glad hes not around).

 

mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

 

guruvani states: "but, in the shastra it most oftens speaks in terms of "accepting a spiritual master", and no very much in terms of "the spiritual master must accept you".

 

I believe that if you accept the spiritual master and follow his instructions that it's not as important that he must personally accept you in some formal initiation ceremony.

 

I believe that the instructions of guru, sadhu and shastra are there for anyone to accept and follow and that being formally accepted by the spiritual master is not essential."

 

mahaksadasa: Srila Prabhupada has different teachings. It is he Who clearly states that the Guru must examine the disciple to see if he is fit. Science of Self Realization. It is He who presents the bhaktivedanta purports of Srimad Bhagavatam, in which he teaches that a spiritual master is inspired to appear before a sincere candidate for Bhakti (First Canto, story of the appearance of Srila Sukadeva Goswami.) The "beliefs" of the revisionists concerning the non-necessity of establishing an intimate, internal, and reciprocal relationship between guru and disciple are just that, beliefs, and do noty jive at all with the science of Krsna Consciousness in regard to accepting a spiritual master.

 

Some have made a career for themselves by saying guru does not even have to be consulted about whom he accepts as disciple. So we get these folks initiating themselves, saying they are disciples of a past acarya, creating cheap apisiddhanta. It is so much easier than really approaching a guru, who may see the unfitness of such foolishness, and reject. Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the best disciple of them all, me, I am fit, therefore Ill make the acarya accept me, and ill even name myself on his behalf (whew, Im glad hes not around).

 

mahaksadasa

 

It's devotees like you, me and thousands of others that are clear and present proof that formal initiation is a joke.

 

There are thousands of fraud devotees going around touting the absolute necessity of formal diksha when they are themselves living proof that formal diksha performs no miracles, performs no magic and doesn't make one devotee better than another.

 

It's just such a damn joke to hear so many neophytes wallowing in false ego and illusion and then bragging to the world how important and indespensible is formal diksha when they are themselves living proof that formal diksha doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

 

Formal diskha didn't prove anything in thousands of cases.

We have plenty of proof that formal diksha doesn't change anything.

 

99% of these formal diksha braggers aren't any different than bhakta Billy, they just like to present some facade that formal diksha somehow did a miracle in their life when in fact they are just typical bhogis enjoyer their senses in the material world.

 

99% of the formal diksha preachers are all the proof we need that formal diksha doesn't change anything.

 

They talk as if formal diksha made them self-realized and masters of their senses, when in fact they are all living testimonials that formal diksha doesn't perform any mystic miracles.

[Beggar]

 

It's devotees like you, me and thousands of others that are clear and present proof that formal initiation is a joke.

 

Yeah the joke's on us, But whose the biggest jokester?

[Guest guest]

Guruvani - you really need good association and you also need to read Srila Prabhupada's books.

 

What kind of logic are you trying to promote? Because true bhakti is rare, no one should strive for it? Because so many have fallen short, all will fall short? What kind of nonsense is that? You really don't seem to have any idea what diksha is. Diksha isn't some fixed point in time - its a process, there is a beginning and it isn't complete until one does come to full surrender - it is a process - but it requires a sincere and constant edeavor on the part of the aspirant.

 

If anything you are an example of why there is a need for close contact and instruction from Sri Guru. Let to you own devices you are making a complete mess of the whole thing.

 

Visrambhena Guru seva - one should serve the Guru in with a feeling of friendliness - we need to be closely associated with advanced vaishnavas whose lives are totally centered on Sri Guru and Gauranga. They serve as examples and inspiration for those of us not as advanced and by their mercy (their talks and their living example) we can progress.

 

You have to put the pot on the fire if you intend to cook a meal. Trying to be Krsna conscious without good company and without constant practice and determination is like trying to cook without fire - it will never happen.

[krsna]

You have to put the pot on the fire if you intend to cook a meal.

Trying to be Krsna conscious without good company and without constant practice and determination is like trying to cook without fire - it will never happen.

 

 

Dear KB and the sunshine band,

 

You need to associate with a living saint/bhakta who's heart is filled with prema and who has nothing to do in this world save and except to give it out to one and all.

 

Serve him, hear from him, take his association and see KRSNA manifest in your life.

 

Hare KRSNA!

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani - you really need good association and you also need to read Srila Prabhupada's books.

 

What kind of logic are you trying to promote? Because true bhakti is rare, no one should strive for it? Because so many have fallen short, all will fall short? What kind of nonsense is that? You really don't seem to have any idea what diksha is. Diksha isn't some fixed point in time - its a process, there is a beginning and it isn't complete until one does come to full surrender - it is a process - but it requires a sincere and constant edeavor on the part of the aspirant.

 

If anything you are an example of why there is a need for close contact and instruction from Sri Guru. Let to you own devices you are making a complete mess of the whole thing.

 

Visrambhena Guru seva - one should serve the Guru in with a feeling of friendliness - we need to be closely associated with advanced vaishnavas whose lives are totally centered on Sri Guru and Gauranga. They serve as examples and inspiration for those of us not as advanced and by their mercy (their talks and their living example) we can progress.

 

You have to put the pot on the fire if you intend to cook a meal. Trying to be Krsna conscious without good company and without constant practice and determination is like trying to cook without fire - it will never happen.

 

Another example that diksha is joke has now joined the bigot parade to preach something that he/she is proof positive is a farce.

 

Look at yourself!

You are mess!

You are proof positive that there is no magic in formal diksha!

 

Why don't you give up this lie and admit that diksha isn't magic and your life is a mess?

 

I have seen dozens of pretenders and failures coming around here touting the glories of formal diksha when there are themselves living proof that there is no magic in formal diksha.

 

Quit playing the game and admit that formal diksha didn't do any miracles and that you are no more self-realized than Bhakta Schlomo.

 

Why do all these fakers and bhogis come around here bragging about diksha when they can't even find their own ass in self-realization?

 

Duh............

Your formal diksha is just a big show.

We have plenty of proof that formal diksha never changed anything.

 

In India and around the world there are thousands of "initiated" devotees chasing after the same illusion as everybody else.

 

Formal diksha has about as much spiritual power as Catholic communion.

 

Eat your cracker, dunk your head in a river, take formal diksha......

They are all the same ritual that is symbolic of an inner birth, they are not rebirth in the true spiritual sense.

[Guruvani]

Every clown in here boasting about formal diksha is a bigot and a fraud and a living example that formal diksha is a joke.

 

You people need to stop deceiving yourself because you are not really fooling anybody else.

 

Nobody buys your bigoted ecclesiastical bullshit that you are living proof is a cultural ornament that doesn't amount to diddly-squat when it comes to self-realization.

 

Profilers, pretenders and fakers......

Your formal diksha didn't do any magic and you are living proof.

 

There are many uninitiated devotees in India that make all of you look like buffoons.

 

(buffoon: a "ridiculous, but nevertheless amusing person.")

[Guest guest]

Guruvani,

 

Do you think that any of your revered guides would be proud of what you are posting? Here is a little piece of siddhanta for you - Diksha is not a FORMALITY. Are you now taking the stance that there is no substance to initiation? That our acharyas were all wrong and that Diksha isn't the process by which a person is enlightened? Have you read what Lord Chatainya had to say about Diksha in his talks with Sanatana Goswami?

 

It's alright if you don't have any faith - but don't try to pass your skepticism and anger off as siddhanta or as representative of the tradition. If your own diksha is as you say, a testament to it's ineffectiveness, then you really need to take a good hard look in the mirror and do something about it. If your serious, then you should come to the conclusion that you need good guidance if you are to change the situation and make something of yourself.

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani,

 

Do you think that any of your revered guides would be proud of what you are posting? Here is a little piece of siddhanta for you - Diksha is not a FORMALITY. Are you now taking the stance that there is no substance to initiation? That our acharyas were all wrong and that Diksha isn't the process by which a person is enlightened? Have you read what Lord Chatainya had to say about Diksha in his talks with Sanatana Goswami?

 

It's alright if you don't have any faith - but don't try to pass your skepticism and anger off as siddhanta or as representative of the tradition. If your own diksha is as you say, a testament to it's ineffectiveness, then you really need to take a good hard look in the mirror and do something about it. If your serious, then you should come to the conclusion that you need good guidance if you are to change the situation and make something of yourself.

 

It's not just me.

You too and all the rest of them are all living proof that formal diksha is a joke.

 

don't try to make me out to be the only example that formal diksha is a joke, because you are just as much a testiment to that as I am.

 

It's been proven that formal diksha from Srila Prabhupada, Srila Sridhar Maharaja, Govinda Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja and the entire circus of ISKCON gurus does no magic or no miracles and that devotees with formal diksha are just as likely to fail as Bhakti Butterfly.

 

Yes, you too are living proof that formal diksha is a joke.

[Guest guest]

If you think that your diksha is a joke then too bad for you. If you think that way then it is so because you are following the dictates of your mind.

 

One with faith in Sri Guru will never consider their diksha to be a joke. It will forever serve as impetus for sincere practice for those with faith, and because of that, it will never be a joke. One day such a sincere sadhakas body will be completely spiritualized and be as good as God - that is the verdict of Mahaprabhu himself so Ksambuddhi's comments with regard to Diksha have no substance other than in his own mind which is in serious need of a good bashing.

[Guest guest]

No wait... diksa is a joke.. and so is every other vaisnava process.. because when we attempt it.. we fail at it.. and therefore no one should ever do it in the first place and continue living the s*it hole life they continue to live.

 

Wow, how realized you are Guruvani, initiate me! initiate meeeee!

 

Wow... so.. I received harinama.. but I'm not chanting suddha nama.. so i'm a failure and i shouldn't chant nama at all.

 

Same logic.

 

Can the mods please dump this trashbag of a poster and save us from all wasting our time.

[muralidhar_das]

When we get diksa (mantra initiation) we get the proper mantras enabling us to do Archana (deity worship) properly.

 

By this I mean what ISKCON calls "gayatri" initiation and not Harinama.

 

Brahma worshipped the Deity through meditation, chanting the diksa mantra he had received in his right ear through Diksa, and Brahma achieved complete success.

 

 

Brahma Samhita 5.24: Then the goddess of learning Sarasvati, the divine consort of the Supreme Lord, said thus to Brahma who saw nothing but gloom in all directions, "O Brahma, this mantra, viz., klim krishnaya govindaya gopi-jana-vallabhaya svaha, will assuredly fulfill your heart's desire."

 

 

BS 5.25: "O Brahma, do thou practice spiritual association by means of this mantra; then all your desires will be fulfilled."

 

 

BS 5.26: Brahma, being desirous of satisfying Govinda, practiced the cultural acts for Krishna in Goloka, Lord of Svetadvipa, for a long time. His meditation ran thus, "There exists a divine lotus of a thousand petals, augmented by millions of filaments, in the transcendental land of Goloka. On its whorl, there exists a great divine throne on which is seated Sri Krishna, the form of eternal effulgence of transcendental bliss, playing on His divine flute resonant with the divine sound, with His lotus mouth. He is worshiped by His amorous milkmaids with their respective subjective portions and extensions and also by His external energy [who stays outside] embodying all mundane qualities."

 

 

Anyone can chant Harinama and achieve success in devotional life - but it may take a long time. Yet if we get diksa (gayatri, the sound that comes from the flute song played by Murali Mohana) then we can progress quickly through to the stage of anartha-nivritti where we become clean from the dasa-nama-aparadha, the ten offences that disturb a neophyte when he is chanting Sri Hari-Nama.

[Guruvani]

 

No wait... diksa is a joke..

 

Look Beavis,

I am talking about formal diksha.

It's buffoons like you that get formal diksha confused with spiritual diksha that is the problem.

 

I was initiated by Srila Prabhupada through his books long before I got formal diksha in an ISKCON temple.

 

Your problem is that you can't distinguish between the form and the substance.

You think the ritual is "diksha" when diksha is not actually some ritual.

[muralidhar_das]

KB are you saying people don't need "second" initiation (gayatri).

 

Is that what you are saying?

[Guruvani]

 

When we get diksa (mantra initiation) we get the proper mantras enabling us to do Archana (deity worship) properly.

 

By this I mean what ISKCON calls "gayatri" initiation and not Harinama.

 

Brahma worshipped the Deity through meditation, chanting the diksa mantra he had received in his right ear through Diksa, and Brahma achieved complete success.

 

 

 

Anyone can chant Harinama and achieve success in devotional life - but it may take a long time. Yet if we get diksa (gayatri, the sound that comes from the flute song played by Murali Mohana) then we can progress quickly through to the stage of anartha-nivritti where we become clean from the dasa-nama-aparadha, the ten offences that disturb a neophyte when he is chanting Sri Hari-Nama.

That's nice in theory but it's a proven fact that so many who have taken diksha have not practically shown that there is any magic in the mantra.

 

Maybe it worked for Lord Brahma, but lets be real, it's not doing any magic here in kali-yuga on the fallen chumps proud of the string around their neck.

 

Theoretical siddhanta hasn't proven to really be all that much of a help in the daily lives of western devotees grappling with material existance.

 

Vaishnavism is beyond Brahmanism.

A Vaishnava doesn't need Gayatri mantra to quality for deity worship.

Chanting the Maha mantra is more effective than chanting any other mantra.

 

All these formalities are just so phony when it comes down to western people trying to cultivate some Krishna consciousness in their daily struggle for existence.

 

The utopian temples and socieities either failed or never even got a chance.

 

All these lovely formalities and cultural ornaments are nice, but they really don't have much practicality in the bitter struggle for existence outside the Mathas and Dhamas.

 

I'm just disenchanted with all these rituals and theoretical concepts.

 

My idea is Krishna consciousness for the working class people in a bitter struggle for existence.

 

Srila Prabhupada wanted to create a society that could offer devotees a better life and a utopian situation, but his goal and his mission was mutilated by a misguided gang of petty bureaucrats whose only concern was their own position and prestige.

 

In the bitter struggle for existence that many devotees are facing around the world today I see very little value in these formalities and flowery theoretical concepts.

[Guruvani]

 

KB are you saying people don't need "second" initiation (gayatri).

 

Is that what you are saying?

 

I am saying that spiritual diksha is the indoctrination into Krishna consciousness.

That is not accomplished in a ritual or a formal ceremony but in hearing and chanting about Krishna in terms of the revealed scriptures.

 

Krishna consciousness is beyond diksha.

Vaishnavism is beyond Brahmanism.

Vaishnavism includes brahmanism with or without the thread and the gayatri mantras.

 

Krishna consciousness is beyond Brahmanism and the gayatri mantra.

 

You know well that Sridhar Maharaja has shown that the gayatri mantra doesn't have the range that the Holy Name has.

 

Brahmanism in Vaishnavism is an ornament, not a foundation.

 

I was initiated by The Nectar of Devotion.

That book was what injected my heart with Krishna consciousness and brought Krishna into my heart.

 

The formality, the ritual didn't have even a fraction of the magic that reading the books of Srila Prabhupada did.

[Beggar]

Yes, but I haven't chanted my diksa mantras (gayatris) in about 6 months and am experiencing a general malaise in Krsna Consciousness. If I read "the books" and become inspired to chant my rounds, diksa mantras and serve the Vaisnavas them my reading is fruitful, otherwise such reading is on the mental platform. Surely there is some sukrti there, but perhaps there will some delayed reaction.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Your cousin really wrote this song, Murali-ji? You've got one talented family!

 

It's such a smooth song--I must have heard it countless times, but never caught the lyrics (except for the chorus). It's actually quite incisive.

 

So, no doubt Neil has heard of Sri Krishna?

 

 

This reminds me of a song my cousin Neil wrote

 

Now I'm towing my car, there's a hole in the roof

My possessions are causing me suspicion but there's no proof

In the paper today tales of war and of waste

But you turn right over to the T.V. page

Now I'm walking again to the beat of a drum

And I'm counting the steps to the door of your heart

Only shadows ahead barely clearing the roof

Get to know the feeling of liberation and relief

Hey now, hey now

Don't dream it's over

Hey now, hey now

When the world comes in

They come, they come

To build a wall between us

Don't ever let them win