His Natural Spiritual Master

[Guruvani 0]

In spiritual life, it is important to recognize one's "natural spiritual master".

The natural spiritual master is not a spiritual master by formality or ritual ceremony, but by the dissemination of actual spiritual knowledge.

In fact, Sukadeva Goswami did not have a formal spiritual master, neither did he accept diksha, because he was already on the Vaishnava platform.

Srila Prabhupada gives Vyasadeva as an example of the "natural spiritual master" of Sukadeva Goswami, becauase Sukadeva Goswami learned Srimad Bhagavatam from Srila Vyasadeva.

 

SB 1.19.25 purport,

 

 

As explained before, Sukadeva Gosvami never accepted any formal spiritual master, nor did he undergo any formal reformatory performances. His father, Vyasadeva, was his natural spiritual master because Sukadeva Gosvami heard Srimad-Bhagavatam from him. After this, he became completely self-satisfied. Thus he was not dependent on any formal process. The formal processes are necessary for those who are expected to reach the stage of complete liberation, but Sri Sukadeva Gosvami was already in that status by the grace of his father.

 

 

 

We can have all the transcendental light of the Supreme Brahman, Sri Krsna, from the recitation of Srimad-Bhagavatam, provided it is received through the medium of the transparent spiritual master. Lord Caitanya's private secretary Srila Svarupa Damodara Gosvami advised all intending visitors who came to see the Lord at Puri to make a study of the Bhagavatam from the person Bhagavatam Person Bhagavatam is the self-realized bona fide spiritual master, and through him only can one understand the lessons of Bhagavatam in order to receive the desired result. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--> One can derive from the study of the Bhagavatam all benefits that are possible to be derived from the personal presence of the Lord. It carries with it all the transcendental blessings of Lord Sri Krsna that we can expect from His personal contact.

 

So, for those devotees who are serious students of the books of Srila Prabhupada, he is their natural spiritual master as well.

[Guruvani 0]

In this statement, Srila Prabhupada equates study of Srimad Bhagavatam with HEARING.

Srila Prabhupada is chanting or reciting Srimad Bhagavatam and the readers are HEARING directly from Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

The smiling face of the Lord is the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, and there are many upstarts who at once try to begin with the Tenth Canto and especially with the five chapters which delineate the rasa-lila of the Lord. This is certainly improper. By such improper study or hearing of Bhagavatam, the material opportunists have played havoc by indulgence in sex life in the name of Bhagavatam.

[Guruvani 0]

Actually, reading the books of Srila Prabhupada is BOTH hearing and chanting.

 

Because in our mind as we read, we are chanting (reciting) what we read.

 

Ordinary hearing is just hearing.

But, reading shastra is both hearing and chanting both at the same time.

 

Just like Gayatri is chanted silently, but is considered chanting nonetheless, reading is a similar form of chanting within one's mind.

 

So, by reading the books of Srila Prabhupada one is submissively inquiring from him about spiritual knowledge.

 

Approach the spiritual master: pick up the book of Srila Prabhupada.

Inquire submissively: look for the answers to your questions in his books.

Render service unto him: follow his instructions and serve him in that way.

[Beggar 0]

I listened to the audio recordings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja that became the books published later. The spiritual ecstacy and deep faith I heard (hear) in his voice deeply inspired (inspires) me. My memory is poor so I refer to his books more as a reference tool in relation to the audio recordings. I always felt more inspired hearing Srila Prabhupada's audio recordings for the same reason. I also read his books, but if I only read and don't listen to his audio recordings (classes and bhajans) I become dry. Could it be that different devotees (or aspiring devotees) have different experiences in this realm? (and I don't smoke doobies)

[Guruvani 0]

 

I listened to the audio recordings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja that became the books published later. The spiritual ecstacy and deep faith I heard (hear) in his voice deeply inspired (inspires) me. My memory is poor so I refer to his books more as a reference tool in relation to the audio recordings. I always felt more inspired hearing Srila Prabhupada's audio recordings for the same reason. I also read his books, but if I only read and don't listen to his audio recordings (classes and bhajans) I become dry. Could it be that different devotees (or aspiring devotees) have different experiences in this realm? (and I don't smoke doobies)

 

I was also first introduced to Sridhar Maharaja from his tapes.

Our dearly departed Godbrother Ruci prabhu first shared the tapes with me in Chicago temple in 1981.

The very sound of Sridhar Maharaja's voice just captured my heart.

I had never heard any voice as sweet and nectarine as his.

 

I fell in love with Sridhar Maharaja in a spiritual sense.

 

I did love the tapes a lot, but I feel that I get the most intimate connection with the books of Sridhar Maharaja and the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I am just more particular for the written word, as you can easily just set there and go over it again and again and again, trying to grasp the meaning.

 

I do recommend the tapes of Sridhar Maharaja for someone just trying to connect with him.

The magic of his voice can conquer any sincere soul.

 

Sridhar Maharaja's voice is very much like the flute of Krishna or maybe we could say the singing of Radharani?

It can captivate the heart of the devotee.

 

But, I am way to fallen and low to be considered a follower or disciple of Sridhar Maharaja.

I am just a member of his fan club.

I am a disciple by no means.

[Guruvani 0]

 

(and I don't smoke doobies)

Well, I haven't had doobie in quite a while myself.

I eventually got to where I didn't like the effects of smoking dope.

 

I think it had something to do with cleansing the body of impurities.

When your body is relatively clean from toxins and poisons, the smoking of dope will actually make you feel sick.

 

I really doubt that I will ever become a dope smoker again.

 

I think I finally got beyond that.

 

If one is habituated to regularly smoking dope, then the body gets adjusted to it and smoking dope can actually seem enjoyable.

 

Being in the work force nowadays is not compatible with taking drugs.

Because I have to work for a living and all companies nowadays test for drugs, I ended up getting away from dope by force and eventually came to appreciate it.

 

Dope is for losers.

That is a fact.

I feel sorry for devotees that are stuck in the muck of smoking dope.

Been there, done that.

[Guruvani 0]

 

I was also first introduced to Sridhar Maharaja from his tapes.

Our dearly departed Godbrother Ruci prabhu first shared the tapes with me in Chicago temple in 1981.

The very sound of Sridhar Maharaja's voice just captured my heart.

I had never heard any voice as sweet and nectarine as his.

 

I fell in love with Sridhar Maharaja in a spiritual sense.

 

I did love the tapes a lot, but I feel that I get the most intimate connection with the books of Sridhar Maharaja and the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I am just more particular for the written word, as you can easily just set there and go over it again and again and again, trying to grasp the meaning.

 

I do recommend the tapes of Sridhar Maharaja for someone just trying to connect with him.

The magic of his voice can conquer any sincere soul.

 

Sridhar Maharaja's voice is very much like the flute of Krishna or maybe we could say the singing of Radharani?

It can captivate the heart of the devotee.

 

But, I am way too fallen and low to be considered a follower or disciple of Sridhar Maharaja.

I am just a member of his fan club.

I am a disciple by no means.

[Guruvani 0]

SB 2.9.43 purport,

 

 

Brahmaji, as a disciple of the Supreme Lord, received the real knowledge and imparted it to his dear disciple Narada, and similarly Narada, as spiritual master, handed over this knowledge to Vyasa and so on. Therefore the so-called formal spiritual master and disciple are not facsimiles of Brahma and Narada or Narada and Vyasa. The relationship between Brahma and Narada is reality, while the so-called formality is the relation between the cheater and cheated.

[Devarsirat 0]

 

I was also first introduced to Sridhar Maharaja from his tapes.

Our dearly departed Godbrother Ruci prabhu first shared the tapes with me in Chicago temple in 1981.

The very sound of Sridhar Maharaja's voice just captured my heart.

I had never heard any voice as sweet and nectarine as his.

 

I fell in love with Sridhar Maharaja in a spiritual sense.

 

I did love the tapes a lot, but I feel that I get the most intimate connection with the books of Sridhar Maharaja and the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I am just more particular for the written word, as you can easily just set there and go over it again and again and again, trying to grasp the meaning.

 

I do recommend the tapes of Sridhar Maharaja for someone just trying to connect with him.

The magic of his voice can conquer any sincere soul.

 

Sridhar Maharaja's voice is very much like the flute of Krishna or maybe we could say the singing of Radharani?

It can captivate the heart of the devotee.

 

But, I am way to fallen and low to be considered a follower or disciple of Sridhar Maharaja.

I am just a member of his fan club.

I am a disciple by no means.

 

yeah yeah yeah and when someone writes something nice about HDG Bhaktivedanta Srila Narayana Maharaja, guruvani das spits poison. Its to much dublicity for me to bear. That happened at a different tread.

 

Its like in the beginning when i asked someone from Srila Sridhar maharajas camp, a sanjasi, about Srila Narayana Maharaja, I got an email in return which was full of poison against Narayana Maharaja. I was so put off by that, that I went and found out by myself and I am glad I did.

 

What these people dont understand is, that whatever differences there have been in the past, or even now should be obsolete instantly, like bubbles in a pond and I am sure that this is the case with all these great souls, unfortunately not always with their followers.

 

All our spiritual masters teach what? dont criticise, one of the main things to follow in devotional life, but here they are, "my guru is better then your guru, your guru has done so and so and mine has not, your guru has said this and that, I have heard, that so ans so, he said she said, bla bla bla"

 

Its like a kinder garden, its very clear to everyone, you talk very intelligently and write so many things "1800 posts from you guruvani", but no understanding about humility, you are posing as someone who is very humble and unworthy in the above post, but in a different post, which has been mercyfully closed by the moderator....

 

.....you are incredibly offensive against Srila Narayana Maharaja and all those who follow Him.

 

You cant fool me guruvani das, i will tell you straight. Before you begin to offend HDG Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja and like to criticise Him, try going into the inner mood of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and ask yourself if He would approve of such neophite verbal rubbish against Srila Narayana Maharaja and His disciples and indeed against any other advanced vaisnava? would He?

 

I know what He would tell you, if you disagree tell me, you think these great personalities would want this? He would want that you should offend other vaisnavas? I dont think so. This type of attitude is a complete nonsense. Srila Prabhupada would surely tell you where to go off.

 

If anyone feels bad about Srila Narayana maharaja it is because they have been misinformed by taking direction and information from the wrong people, and if you belittle Srila Narayana Maharaja and His followers, you are sure going about the right way displeasing Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja. If you cant accept this statement, then I would become very concerned about my real attitude if I was you.

 

I am sure that all of those who pick up these offenses, against other vaisnavas and take them to heart and freely echo those opinions without worry or concern for their future, havnt understood anything at all about what Sri Krishna says about those who offend His pure devotees.

 

To all those disciples and wellwishers of Srila Narayana Maharaja who have read this Id like to say....dont be disturbed when someone offends your spiritual master, you become stronger instead.

 

Either send a request to the moderator to put this person back in his place or reply back to them get straight to the point and dont take bs from anyone.

[muralidhar_das 0]

I have some treasures...

 

http://www.mandala.com.au/mp3/300785A.mp3

 

and

 

http://www.mandala.com.au/mp3/300785B.mp3

 

The files are very large - over 400 mb each. Maybe 90 minutes in total.

 

On one tape I'm asking Guru Maharaj about sahajiyaism and raganuga bhakti. On the other, about how Krishna worships Sri Gauranga. Yes, Krishna worships Gauranga!

[Guest guest]

Great post Devarsirat prabhu. The message in this post should be taken to the core of one's heart. Thank you very much for this enlightening post.

 

 

yeah yeah yeah and when someone writes something nice about HDG Bhaktivedanta Srila Narayana Maharaja, guruvani das spits poison. Its to much dublicity for me to bear. That happened at a different tread.

 

Its like in the beginning when i asked someone from Srila Sridhar maharajas camp, a sanjasi, about Srila Narayana Maharaja, I got an email in return which was full of poison against Narayana Maharaja. I was so put off by that, that I went and found out by myself and I am glad I did.

 

What these people dont understand is, that whatever differences there have been in the past, or even now should be obsolete instantly, like bubbles in a pond and I am sure that this is the case with all these great souls, unfortunately not always with their followers.

 

All our spiritual masters teach what? dont criticise, one of the main things to follow in devotional life, but here they are, "my guru is better then your guru, your guru has done so and so and mine has not, your guru has said this and that, I have heard, that so ans so, he said she said, bla bla bla"

 

Its like a kinder garden, its very clear to everyone, you talk very intelligently and write so many things "1800 posts from you guruvani", but no understanding about humility, you are posing as someone who is very humble and unworthy in the above post, but in a different post, which has been mercyfully closed by the moderator....

 

.....you are incredibly offensive against Srila Narayana Maharaja and all those who follow Him.

 

You cant fool me guruvani das, i will tell you straight. Before you begin to offend HDG Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja and like to criticise Him, try going into the inner mood of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and ask yourself if He would approve of such neophite verbal rubbish against Srila Narayana Maharaja and His disciples and indeed against any other advanced vaisnava? would He?

 

I know what He would tell you, if you disagree tell me, you think these great personalities would want this? He would want that you should offend other vaisnavas? I dont think so. This type of attitude is a complete nonsense. Srila Prabhupada would surely tell you where to go off.

 

If anyone feels bad about Srila Narayana maharaja it is because they have been misinformed by taking direction and information from the wrong people, and if you belittle Srila Narayana Maharaja and His followers, you are sure going about the right way displeasing Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja. If you cant accept this statement, then I would become very concerned about my real attitude if I was you.

 

I am sure that all of those who pick up these offenses, against other vaisnavas and take them to heart and freely echo those opinions without worry or concern for their future, havnt understood anything at all about what Sri Krishna says about those who offend His pure devotees.

 

To all those disciples and wellwishers of Srila Narayana Maharaja who have read this Id like to say....dont be disturbed when someone offends your spiritual master, you become stronger instead.

 

Either send a request to the moderator to put this person back in his place or reply back to them get straight to the point and dont take bs from anyone.

[Guruvani 0]

And I would have to reply that many devotees whose natural spiritual master was Srila Prabhupada, who became devotees on the basis of reading the books of Srila Prabhupada, have accepted formal initiation from Narayana Maharaja and other "gurus" and not given proper credit to their natural spiritual master and given too much credit to their formal initiating spiritual master.

 

I am one who believes that those devotees who failed to give proper acknowledgment and honor to Srila Prabhupada after having become devotees on the basis of his books and who then give too much position and authority to their formal diksha guru Narayan Maharaja or someone else are making a mistake and are committing offense to their natural spritual master because of giving too much credit to their formal spiritual master.

 

Then, these ungrateful persons want to move their natural spiritual master to the background and give all credit and gratitude to some formal diksha guru at the expense of the natural and original spiritual master.

 

I think there are many ingrates among the "disciples" of Narayana Maharaja who failed to give proper honor and position to their real saviour and their natural spiritual master Srila Prabhupada.

 

I think they have deprived and denied Srila Prabhupada the proper position, respect and honor he commands as their natural spiritual master who was there for them when these formal gurus were just scratching their butts and trying to figure out a way to gather some followers to support his lifestyle as an unemployed person living off the hard work of others.

 

There is a lot of this dishonoring of the natural spiritual master of the Krishna consciousness movement going on as these ingrates in turn give way too much credit and recognition to some formal diksha guru who came around giving formal diksha to the natural disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Natural disciples are not always formal disciples, as was the case with Sukadeva and Vyasadeva.

 

A natural spiritual master means that there is a natural disciple.

 

When a natural disciples dishonors his natural spiritual master and gives too much credit to his formal spiritual master you have an offense.

 

Sukadeva never took formal diksha.

He didn't need diksha because by the mercy of Vyasadeva he had already been elevated to the Vaishnava platform beyond the superficial formalities of formal diksha.

 

Sukadeva got spiritual diksha.

He didn't need formal diksha.

 

Sukadeva got spiritual diksha by hearing Srimad Bhagavatam from Vyasadeva.

That process is what moved him beyond formal diksha and made Vyasadeva his natural spiritual master.

 

The Krishna consciousenss movement needs a natural spiritual master and not so many formal spiritual masters creating fractures and division within the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

If the Krishna consciousness movement follows the natural spiritual master there will be peace and harmony.

 

If the Krishna consciousness movement adopts so many formal spiritual masters at the expense of the natural spiritual master we will have choas and confusion which is the history of the Krishna consciousness movement since the passing away of the natural spiritual master of the international society of Krishna consciousness devotees.

[Guest guest]

 

And I would have to reply that many devotees whose natural spiritual master was Srila Prabhupada, who became devotees on the basis of reading the books of Srila Prabhupada, have accepted formal initiation from Narayana Maharaja and other "gurus" and not given proper credit to their natural spiritual master and given too much credit to their formal initiating spiritual master.

 

 

 

 

Prabhupada is not a "jealous God" like the Christians worship. He is pleased to see other Vaishnavas receiving honor.

 

The "natural spiritual master" is a heart-to-heart connection. As such, a natural disciple of Srila Narayana Maharaja cannot artificially impose on his heart a preeminence for Prabhupada, if that preeminence is not naturally there. Even so, the common experience is that as natural disciples of Narayana Maharaja draw closer to their guru, they in turn draw closer to Prabhupada. They even draw closer to Sridhar Maharaja, in spite of the fact that Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja had some complex dealings between each other.

 

This is the power of the natural spiritual master. Prabhupada is not some spiritual imperialist who must "claim" as his own every disciple who has read his books. Some who read his books are indeed his natural disciples. However, some who read his books discover that those books truly "come alive" through the siksa (and sometimes diksa) of Narayana Maharaja.

 

That is fine, and is as it should be.

[Guest guest]

Why would you think you only have one natural spiritual master? Can your heart accomodate two? How about three?

 

I have a very special place in my heart for Srila Prabhupada, Sridhara Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja. I have never heard any of them in person but they are all my "natural spiritual masters". I see Lord Krsna speaking to me through them every day.

[Guest guest]

Faith is not something that can be legislated. Not everyone feels the same about anything or any person - feelings and faith are very personal. The one thing that Sridhara Maharaja always advocated is that a devotee should be a faith maker, not a faith breaker. Faith in Sri Guru and Gauranga is a precious thing and we should honor that wherever we see it. Our only function should be to either stay out of the way or to help that faith grow.

 

The very idea of trying to legislate faith is so repulsive. A devotee should be able to share their faith in confidence, but that faith is weak at best, if it relies on denigrating or trampling on the faith of others for support. Srila Prabhpuada taught Gaudiya Vaishnavism which advocates the plurality of Gurus. Each devotee will be moved in different ways by different Gurus. Whoever one feels the most inspired by and whoever a person feels most indebted to - that person will certainly take a prominent place in the heart and mind of that sadhaka. That is natural. Anything else is artificial.

[Guruvani 0]

Faith and freedom are all good and well, but I see that there is a class of devotee around the movement nowadays who have not given proper regard and proper recognition to the contribution of Srila Prabhupada to their spiritual life and who are artificially give more credit than is due to the formal diksha guru.

 

Faith cannot be legislated that is true, but at the same time there are obvious cases of neophyte devotees who are not giving proper respect and regard to Srila Prabhupada for his contribution to their own status in Krishna consciousness and have allowed their own politics and prejudices push Srila Prabhupada back into a corner where he doesn't belong.

 

Faith is not always so free and freelance.

 

We have a duty and an obligation to give proper respect to our natural spiritual master who teaches us Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Last account I had neither Narayana Maharaja or Sridhar Maharaja has given the English speaking world Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

So, the natural spiritual master for the whole English speaking world is Srila Prabhupada as he is was authorized by Srila Saraswati Goswami to translate and publish books for the English speaking world.

 

I don't know of any other acharya in the Saraswata line that has been specifically authorized and empowered by Srila Saraswati Thakur to translate the Gaudiya scriptures for the western world.

 

Srila Prabhupada was specifically singled out amongst the disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur for that mission.

 

I don't know of any acharya authorizing Narayan Maharaja to translate the Gaudiya canon for the English speaking world.

 

It's obvious that he appointed himself to do that, so that does not really make him authorized or the natural spiritual master for the western world.

 

Freedom and choice is all good, but not if it is founded on artificial and external considerations at the expense of insulting and disrespecting the natural spiritual master and father of the Krishna consciousness movement in the western world.

 

It's obvious there is a lot of contempt and negligence on the part of many devotees who have artificially accepted an unauthorized agent in place of the authorized agent and natural spiritual master of the Krishna conscioueness movement - Srila Prabhupada.

 

We don't authorize the agents of the parampara.

They have to have authority coming from above.

That authority is obviously missing in a number of so-called gurus who have become the latest fad in the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

Prabhupada is not a fad guru that bitter and disgruntled devotees accept in definace of the GBC out of spite and revenge.

 

Prabhupada is the natural spiritual master of the entire western world, because he is the authorized agent that Srila Saraswati Thakur empowered to lead the Krishna consciousness movement in the western world by translating the Gaudiya canon into English.

 

Srila Prabhupada was authorized by the founder of the Saraswata Gaudiya Sampradaya.

Narayana Maharaja was not.

[Guest guest]

Where is the 'authorization' to preach in the west and translate the Gaudiya books? Srila Prabhupada took a suggestion from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta that he preach in the west as an order. That is obviously to his credit and what he accomplished is miraculous. All glories to A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami!!!!

 

Now you (Guruvani) are claiming that Srila Prabhpada was authorized by his spiritual master to preach Krsna consciousness but that Narayana Maharaja was not. First off, what do you know about what instructions or authorization Keshava Maharaja gave to Narayana Maharaja? (of course your exact statement was that he wasn't authorized by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - but I'm quite sure you know that he was his param Guru) The obvious answer is that you don't know anything about it. Narayana Maharaja is preaching effectively throughout the world and he is inspiring many devotees - why do you want to cast a doubt on his 'authenticity'?

 

I tell you frankly Guruvani that I find your rhetoric to be offensive at best. If, for whatever reason, Narayana Maharaja doesn't inspire you - why not simply leave it at that and honor the obvious fact that he is inspiring to many others?

 

I don't know Narayana Maharaja personally (only heard him speak in person one time) but I would guess that his disciples could dispel your ignorance regarding his authorization to translate and write books on Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

Why do you want to stand as judge of others hearts? You don't know what moves another person. Many people have been introduced to Gaudiya Vaishnavism through Srila Prabhupada's books - but that doesn't mean they feel the same way you do. Many people have been turned off to Srila Prabhupada by his followers and the institution that continues to preach 'in his name'. Faith is a complex issue. Just because you think everyone should give a primary place in their hearts to your Guru Maharaja doesn't mean that they will feel the same way. Everyone thinks that their own Guru Maharaja is the best - why else would they surrender at his/her feet and try with all their hearts and minds to serve them?

 

Personally, I think you dishonor your Guru Maharaja by denigrating other venerable vaishnavas.

[Guest guest]

Actually, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati instructed all his disciples that it was the order of his spiritual master, as well as his mother's deathbed request, that he spread Krsna consciousness around the world. He exhorted all his disciples to help in this work to their capacity. I read in Mulaprakrti dd's book that he did so on several occasions in public. On one occasion, as he looked directly at our Srila Prabhupada, he said something like, "The next disciple who goes to the west will bring back the entire world."

[Guruvani 0]

I am not denigrating anyone.

I am pointing out facts that Srila Prabhupada is the authorized agent of the Saraswata sampradaya to translate books and preach to the English speaking world.

As a matter of fact, I think I remember that Srila Saraswati Thakur mentioned that instruction in either the first or second time Srila Prabhupada saw him.

 

I don't know of any similar kind of profound calling assigned to any of the other disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur.

 

Srila Prabhupada has been authorized through the parampara system for his particular mission in sevice to the Lord.

 

I know that Srila Saraswati Thakur also wanted Sridhar Maharaja to preach in the western world and eventually Sridhar Maharaja was blessed to fulfill that instruction in a very profound way.

 

I don't know of any occasion or condition in which Narayana Maharaja was empowered through the disciplic succession to preach in the western world.

 

Srila Prabhupada asked him to "help my disciples".

 

It is quite obvious that Srila Prabhupada was asking him not to harm his mission and the assist ISKCON in being disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada never requested him to become a guru in ISKCON or any such thing. He asked him to "help my disciples".

 

I don't see any instruction or authority in that request that Narayana Maharaja take for himself disciples from out of the ISKCON paradigm.

 

If anyone can show anywhere or anytime Srila Prabhupada requested Narayana Maharaja to do anything aside from "help my disciples", then I would be glad to see it.

 

I would like to see any authority from Srila Prabhupada for Narayana Maharaja to accept disciples from out of the ISKCON society.

 

any takers?

 

I am waiting.......................................................

[Guruvani 0]

 

Actually, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati instructed all his disciples that it was the order of his spiritual master, as well as his mother's deathbed request, that he spread Krsna consciousness around the world. He exhorted all his disciples to help in this work to their capacity. I read in Mulaprakrti dd's book that he did so on several occasions in public. On one occasion, as he looked directly at our Srila Prabhupada, he said something like, "The next disciple who goes to the west will bring back the entire world."

generic instructions referenced from an unauthorized book is hardly a valid authority to prove that all the disciples of Saraswati Thakur were empowered to preach to the western world in English.

 

Many and most of the disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur did not have the language skills to even begin to translate the Gaudiya canon into English.

 

As a matter of fact, I think I remember that Srila Prabhupada stated that other than himself that Sridhar Maharaja was the only other person who was qualified to translate the Gaudiya shastra into English.

[muralidhar_das 0]

In a letter to Sadananda, Srila Saraswati Thakura says:

 

 

I have a mind to visit some of the countries of the west in a short time. I have not yet settled the programs of my tour on account of sudden indisposition.

 

When he was in London, Sadananda took hari-nama initiation. Bon Maharaja gave him hari-nama, in his capacity of being a ritvik acharya (representative of Srila Saraswati Thakura).

[Guest guest]

You say you aren't denigrating anyone yet you state that Srila Prabhpada was authorized and that Naryana Maharaja is not? You say you know of no sanction from the parampara for Narayana Maharaja to preach in the west yet you also assert that you aren't denigrating anyone?

 

All devotees are authorized by none other than Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself who ordered all devotees - 'wherever you go, whoever you meet - tell them about Krsna'.

 

It is you who are being 'political' and disingenuous. You have every right to love your Guru Maharaja and you should feel so indebted to him that your every waking moment is dedicated to serving him. But that service does not include vaishnava aparadha. Anyone who has read your posts above is well aware of what you are saying about Narayana Maharaja and implying about other vaishnava's who have taken up the service of helping others.

 

A person who wishes to advance in Krsna consciousness is adviced in all of our scriptures and by all of our acharyas to seek out good company and find a vaishnava who can personally guide them. That is one of the very beginning instructions of Rupa Goswami when he outlines the process of Bhakti yoga in the Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu.

 

In fact we are all instructed to seek the company of devotees more advanced than ourselves because that will help us to advance.

 

All Vaishanvas are glorious and we should spend our time glorifying and serving them. Guruvani - you really should think deeply about what you say and why you say it. I know it's not easy, but a person such as yourself should really start to be more introspective about what you're involved with and try to embody the teachings in all you say and do. You are a very intelligent person - you should use that intelligence to seek out your own faults and work on correcting them. You should also use your God/Guru given intelligence to glorify devotees and devotional service.

[Guruvani 0]

 

You say you aren't denigrating anyone yet you state that Srila Prabhpada was authorized and that Naryana Maharaja is not? You say you know of no sanction from the parampara for Narayana Maharaja to preach in the west yet you also assert that you aren't denigrating anyone?

 

All devotees are authorized by none other than Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself who ordered all devotees - 'wherever you go, whoever you meet - tell them about Krsna'.

 

It is you who are being 'political' and disingenuous. You have every right to love your Guru Maharaja and you should feel so indebted to him that your every waking moment is dedicated to serving him. But that service does not include vaishnava aparadha. Anyone who has read your posts above is well aware of what you are saying about Narayana Maharaja and implying about other vaishnava's who have taken up the service of helping others.

 

A person who wishes to advance in Krsna consciousness is adviced in all of our scriptures and by all of our acharyas to seek out good company and find a vaishnava who can personally guide them. That is one of the very beginning instructions of Rupa Goswami when he outlines the process of Bhakti yoga in the Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu.

 

In fact we are all instructed to seek the company of devotees more advanced than ourselves because that will help us to advance.

 

All Vaishanvas are glorious and we should spend our time glorifying and serving them. Guruvani - you really should think deeply about what you say and why you say it. I know it's not easy, but a person such as yourself should really start to be more introspective about what you're involved with and try to embody the teachings in all you say and do. You are a very intelligent person - you should use that intelligence to seek out your own faults and work on correcting them. You should also use your God/Guru given intelligence to glorify devotees and devotional service.

NO, I am saying that as far as Srila Prabhupada was concerned he stated in his latter days that other than himself Sridhar Maharaja was the only person that he recognized as qualified to translate the Gaudiya texts into English.

 

Maybe Narayana Maharaja is qualified, but he never got the stamp of approval from Srila Prabhupada and that has to be taken into consideration by all the devotees of greater ISKCON.

 

Narayana Maharaja never got authorized by Srila Saraswati Thakur - the founder of the Saraswata Gaudiya sect, nor Srila Prabhupada - the founder of the international society for Krishna consciousness.

 

So, considering that Narayana Maharaja is self-authorized or authorized by his sycophants, there are many people of greater ISKCON who will never accept Narayana Maharaja as having proper authorization to preach in the western world.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave him the decisive instruction to "help my disciples".

 

That is a far cry from instructing him to become guru and accept his own disciples from out of the ISKCON society and the devotees that he made with his books.

 

"Help my disciples" is an indirect way of saying "don't accept disciples from out of ISKCON".

 

That is my humble opinion.

[Guest guest]

Every devotee has to decide what to do and who to listen to based on their own conscience and their own inner necessity.

 

What Srila Prabhupada said or didn't say to Narayana Maharaja is something only he would know for sure. Regardless, Narayana Maharaja is a disciple of Keshava Maharaja who is Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa Guru and god brother.

 

Who to listen to and what books to read is not an institutional matter. It is a matter of the heart. Quite obviously Narayana Maharaja is helping many sadhakas in their journey and everyone who shares the same ideal should be happy about that.

 

I am not involved in his mission and have only heard him speak on one occasion but I honor his devotion and dedication and I also honor the fact that he is inspiring many devotees - not sychophants (those come in all shapes, sizes and institutional affiliations). He is a very learned devotee who is carrying on the mission of his Guru Maharaja as best he can. We should try to see the good in all others, what to speak of devotees who have dedicated their very lives to serving the mission of Lord Chaitanya.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Every devotee has to decide what to do and who to listen to based on their own conscience and their own inner necessity.

 

 

 

But, if he can dedicate himself selflessly to the will of the Lord with less emphasis on his inner necessity, then he might be better off, because in the neophyte stages our "inner necessity" can be very much affected by our politics, our limited knowledge, our distorted concepts and our personal prejudices.

 

Inner necessity would more than likely come at a higher stage where attachment, affection and spiritual emotion start to awaken in a genuine form.

 

In the present day Krishna consciousness movement many neophytes are being more moved by politics and prejudice than by a genuine awakening of "inner necessity".

 

New devotees want their own "Prabhupada" to fasten on to, but can this fad be perpetuated forever with each new generation manufacturing their own "Prabhupada" by the vote a horde of neophytes?

 

I guess I was fortunate that my spiritual master came to be naturally and I didn't have to go through the shopping around for a guru process that devotees coming to the movement nowadays are going through.

 

I don't like this shopping around for a guru business, because I believe that Krishna sends the guru to you that he wants you to have.

 

If you have to shop around for a guru, then I think you will most often end up making the wrong choice because there should be no question of who the guru is and no need of shopping around.

 

If you are shopping for a guru, most often that means that you have already overlooked the guru that Krishna sent to save you.

 

shopping around for the guru most often results in disrespecting the guru that brought you Krishna consciousness in favor of some formal guru that satisifies the mind and the ego and maybe some conception of prestige in devotee society.

 

Guru shoppers are a strange breed.

 

I don't relate very well with the guru shopper club.