We dont have faith atleast as demons have!

Guruvani · November 27, 2006

I disagree. Mahaprabhu's potency is not so low that it can obstructed by bureaucracy.

Really?

Then why did it take 400 years before Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur broke the monopoly of the Nityananda vamsha and allowed Krishna consciousness to spread all over the world?

For nearly 400 years the so-called Nityananda-vamsha kept the Krishna consciousness movement suppressed until Srila Sarasvati Thakur stood up against them and broke their supposed monopoly.

Now, the GBC is trying to take up the same old hackneyed proposition that the Nityananda-vamsha claimed for 400 years.

The GBC claims to have authority to regulate gurus with their bureaucratic oversight, but they are simply showing how outlaw and renegade they have become with such outragious claims.

The GBC has NO authority over anything or anyone in terms of who shall be guru.

It's totally out of their league, but they don't understand that.

Kulapavana · November 27, 2006

For nearly 400 years the so-called Nityananda-vamsha kept the Krishna consciousness movement suppressed until Srila Sarasvati Thakur stood up against them and broke their supposed monopoly.

dude, go easy on venomous statements like that! :mad:

first of all, it is completely inaccurate historically, and second - it is very offensive shastrically. who the heck are you to lash out at Nityananda-vamshis?

Shakti-Fan · November 27, 2006

dude, go easy on venomous statements like that!

Yadi Guruvani... If Guruvani wasn't making "venomous" statements" many of us wouldn't "tune in" to Audarya Fellowships Spiritual Discusssions , at least so often. If Guruvani had not come to the Audarya Fellowships Spiritual Discusssions how could we go on? If Guruvani did not exist, we would have to invent him.

Guruvani · November 27, 2006

dude, go easy on venomous statements like that!

first of all, it is completely inaccurate historically, and second - it is very offensive shastrically. who the heck are you to lash out at Nityananda-vamshis?

goes to show what an ignorant you are.

I pulled these words right out of the books of Srila Prabhupada.

These are Srila Prabhupada's words.

I am just repeating what my spiritual master has taught in his books.

So, I guess you think Srila Prabhupada is venomous?

Kulapavana · November 27, 2006

I pulled these words right out of the books of Srila Prabhupada.

I would appreciate the exact quote and context.

Besides, what was appropriate or acceptable for Srila Prabhupada to say, may not be appropriate for his disciples to say, especially on a public forum where Vaishnavas of all lineages visit. It is called CULTURE.

You bemoan the divisivness of GBC and Iskcon, but you yourself are a poster boy of divisivnes and cultish behavior. It will take Iskcon a century or more to lose this nouveau-rich arrogance.

Guruvani · November 27, 2006

NOD chapter 5,

In the Middle Ages, after the disappearance of Lord Caitanya’s great associate Lord Nityänanda, a class of priestly persons claimed to be the descendants of Nityänanda, calling themselves the gosvämi caste. They further claimed that the practice and spreading of devotional service belonged only to their particular class, which was known as Nityänanda-vamsa. In this way, they exercised their artificial power for some time, until Srila Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvati Thäkura, the powerful äcärya of the Gaudiya Vaishñava sampradäya, completely smashed their idea. There was a great hard struggle for some time, but it has turned out successfully, and it is now correctly and practically established that devotional service is not restricted to a particular class of men. Besides that, anyone who is engaged in devotional service is already at the status of being a high-class brähmana. So Srila Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvati Thäkura’s struggle for this movement has come out successful.

It is on the basis of his position that anyone can now become a Gaudiya Vaishnava, from any part of the world or any part of the universe. Anyone who is a pure Vaishnava is situated transcendentally, and therefore the highest qualification in the material world, namely to be in the mode of goodness, has already been achieved by such a person. Our Krsna consciousness movement in the Western world is based on the above-mentioned proposition of Srila Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvati Gosvämi Prabhupäda, our spiritual master. On his authority, we are claiming members from all sections of the Western countries. The so-called brähmanas claim that one who is not born into a brähmana family cannot receive the sacred thread and cannot become a high-grade Vaishñava. But we do not accept such a theory, because it is not supported by Rüpa Gosvämi nor by the strength of the various scriptures.

bija · November 27, 2006

tact: consideration in dealing with others and avoiding giving offence.

Srila Prabhupada's above writing is tactful. Comparing Nityananda vamsa to GBC(as you perceive GBC) is not so tactful.

Just my humble opinion, no offence meant Guruvani.

Guruvani · November 27, 2006

tact: consideration in dealing with others and avoiding giving offence.

Srila Prabhupada's above writing is tactful. Comparing Nityananda vamsa to GBC(as you perceive GBC) is not so tactful.

Just my humble opinion, no offence meant Guruvani.

he called me venomous and I called him ignorant.

I think venomous is worse that ignorant.

maybe you should lecture him instead of me?

I proved him ignorant and defended the venomous accusation.

bija · November 27, 2006

I am not referring to your dialogue with Kulupavana.

I did not intend to give you a lecture. You are a free agent.

There is alot of diverse people out here, and learning sensitivities is something we all need to work on.

I have read much of your views on Iskcon and GBC. I do not think using Srila Prabhupada's words to back up a statement about Nityananda Vamsa and GBC (considering your views on GBC) is so tactful. That is all.

bija · November 27, 2006

here is a poem I read yesterday...really like it.

Go with Muddy Feet

When you hear dirty story

wash your ears.

When you see ugly stuff

wash your eyes.

When you get bad thoughts

wash your mind.

and

Keep your feet muddy.

Beggar · November 27, 2006

I thought we were supposed to consider our own minds venomous and ignorant. I also thought that when a teacher or preacher criticizes others it is for their benefit or the benefit of the students or disciples. The only qualification is that he practices what he teaches and preaches, and has the quality of karuna or mercy. If we go out on a limb and assume that we are so qualified without looking at our real thoughts and behavior then we may just be headed for the ground below. If we are already on the ground then we can use that very ground to push ourselves up and try to walk the path again. But at least if we are face first in the mud we need to find out how and why we got there. Otherwise what's the use of our masquerade? Maybe it feels good to believe that we are saved or liberated when we are still fallen souls. It's a common strategy to make it through the day. Illusion upon illusion upon illusion etc. etc. That's why it's harder to wake someone who is pretending to sleep. I should know about all these things because I have first hand experience. We all do it and I have become expert at it. But sometimes we have to get a grip. So why not? Come on now ladies and gentlemen, prabhus and d.d.s lets get a grip!

Sridas · November 28, 2006

hello everybody,

I am currently in a fierce debate on a Romanian forum at Softpedia.com; I would appreciate any help I can get to defend the authority of Vyasadeva and to prove that zoroastrism is earlier than the Vedas. Also, the greatest problem is that I cannot find a answer to the provoking question: "If Vishnu is so great then why are all the shruti vedas focusing on indra and the others?". For more clarity, I will translate parts of the message I am having difficulty with.

"Come on, be serious with this vyasa guy. isn't he the one who "wrote" mahabharata?Or, are there 5000 years-old manuscripts that have survived and I don't know about is? You should do some research on when the Veda was put in writing. You will be surprized! Guaranteed."

"And them , what about the internal evidence within the Veda [he is refering to the 4 vedas] What about the linguistic changes [???]? And how do you explain the parallels between the vedic texts and the persian and avestan texts(which can be very precisely dated? How do you explain the fact that if Vishnu is the greatest and the coolest he is a somewhat secondary characted in the Vedas and he barely appears, whereas later in the later vedic literature the other deites almost disappear (not to mention the treaties from Mittani where Indra, Mitra, Varuna are evoked)".

"How the heck do you explain that aryans have lived in the cities from the Sindh valley, but there is no urban life mentioned in the Vedas [again, he is refering to the 4 vedas?"

"On what criteria do you accept the authority of BG/SB translation of prabhupad if you do not know the language? Do you like the cover? Have you ever read a vedic text?"

I will not bother to try to convince anybody of anything but this discussion is public and I hate not to be able to defend Prabhupad and the Vaisnava point of view in front of people who are really interested about it[there are some symphatizers of bhakti among the users].

I would really be grateful if somebody who has knowledge in these issues, would help me out here

Thank you in advance,

Hare Krishna

Well Dharmapurusha dandavats,

It doesn't look like you are going to get much help here,

Too much engagement in defeating each other, may i remind all Gaudiya Vaisnavas that the battle is against Maya not each other.

Anyway Dp I think you may be pushing up hill if you engage on some of these other forums that don't even have basic vedic education, as they will simply lock horns on a gnani type level, and won't really understand the beauty of bhakti and transcendence.

Here is a little talk by Srila Sridhara Maharaj that would mostly go way over their head, nevertheless it may help a little.

Student: In the Bhagavad-gita 7.19, Krishna says:

bahunam janmanam ante,

jnanavan mam prapadyate

vasudevah sarvam iti,

sa mahatma sudurlabhah

(“After many, many births, the jnani, person in knowledge (who happens to achieve the association of My pure devotee) finally comes to understand that the whole universe of moving and stationary beings is of the nature of Vasudeva, alone, therefore all are subordinate to Vasudeva. (I, as Vasudeva am the source and substance of all that be.) Having grasped this conception, he surrenders unto Me. Know such a great soul to be extremely rare.”) What exactly is the meaning, here?

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Srila Sridhar Maharaj: From ‘brahma’ conception, the different instalments follow. In brahma realisation, there is a ‘mass’ of consciousness: ‘all-consciousness’. Then, the next step will come: the consciousness is of individual character – with deeper vision, individuality is added to consciousness. There is consciousness plus individuality.

In fact, no consciousness can exist without individuality, without personality. So, the consciousness is personal: personality and consciousness, they cannot be separated, one from the other. What is differentiated from personality, that is only the halo of the personality – it is something like that. And that ‘halo’ that brahma – is also the combination of minutest personality, of souls.

Substance is of two kinds: ksara, or changing, perishable; and aksara, unchanging, eternal. In the Bhagavad-gita (15.16) Lord Krishna says: ksarah sarvani bhutani – whatever we see in the changing aspect of the world, that is called ksara. And what is unchangeable is called aksara. Then, He says:

yasmat ksaram atito ‘ham

aksarad api cottamah

ato ‘smi like vede ca,

prathitah purusottamah

(Bhagavad-gita 15.18)

“My existence transcends both of these two substances, ksara – aksara. So, I am purusottamah – My name is ‘Purussottama’. My glories are sung in the world and in the scriptures, as Purusottama, the Supreme Person.”

‘Purusottama’ means Vasudeva. So, bahunam janmanam ante…; after many births, when the jnanis, those of the impersonal school, come to understand that the Prime Cause of the consciousness of their quest is a personal one, then they come to conceive of Vasudeva.

But such jnanis are very rarely to be found. Mostly, jnanis cannot cross this line. They are lost there:

ye ‘nye’ ravindaksa vimukta-maninas

tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha buddhayah

aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah

patanty adho ‘nadrta-yusmad anghrayah

(Srimad Bhagavatam 10.2.32)

“O lotus-eyed Lord, although non-devotees who accept severe penances and austerities to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence remains impure. They simply speculate in various ways and do not seek the means to take shelter of You. Because they have no regard for Your lotus feet, they simply fall down from their position of imagined superiority into material existence again".

Generally, it is the fate of the jnanis to climb up to the highest position with great effort, and then, when they cannot grasp that “consciousness means ‘person’” – they cannot cross that understanding – they have to revert back. They have to come back, fall back. And for those who can cross this line, who can understand that: “Yes, consciousness means person – a Big Personality, I am small ….”, bhakti begins there. The relation of subordination of the lower to the Higher, that comes into effect. And, sa mahatma sudurlabhah – such a person among the jnanis is very rarely to be found, who can take the positive connection of the higher aspect of life. Mostly they come back, they have to come back from there. After much penance, they climb up to that high mark, but they cannot accommodate that “the higher Entity must be dealt with devotion”, so they have to come back.

But those who realise: vasudevah sarvam iti, that Vasudeva – Purusottama – is personal, they can ‘cross the line’ and enter Vaikuntha, the service area proper.

And there, we are told, gradually as their vision grows more and more, they can find potency on the side of the personal God. Then they become the devotee of Laksmi-Narayana, and enter completely into Vaikuntha-seva. And in that service, we find awe, reverence; there are sastric (scriptural) rules, and also examples of the higher-realised souls, to guide them.

And in that Vaikuntha-seva, if the soul does not find the whole of his innate nature having full engagement, there will be some sort of thirst, some inner tendency which cannot find any corresponding relation to satisfy itself. And when he feels this kind of urge from within, he has to search after another rasa (a soul’s specific service mood/relationship with the Lord, and the ‘taste’ derived therefrom.), for a purer, more friendly service than the filial service (dasya-rasa).

And ultimately the madhura-rasa service – the sweetheart’s service, in consorthood – urges him to go up. It urges him to go up, and to go deeper. And gradually, by coming in contact with such (madhura rasa) agents, he finds his own heart blossoming. And blossoming to its fullest extent, his heart takes him gradually towards Goloka Vrndavana (the supreme spiritual planet, abode of Lord Krishna)……

The Service of Reality the Beautiful

Then he can see that what was (initially realised as) ‘brahma’; then Paramatma, or Vasudeva; then Laksmi-Narayana – that has gradually come to him as Krishna consciousness, not Narayana consciousness. Superceding Narayana consciousness, he comes in contact with Krishna consciousness of the Reality. He is awakened – he finds himself awakened in a plane where he see the all-connecting, all-harmonising principle is no longer Narayana, but Krishna – He is showing Himself as Krishna. Then he is fully awakened. His heart is fully awakened, and at the same time he sees that the environment, and the object of his search, is also fully equipped. This is full-fledged theism.

Full-fledged theism – where the theistic conviction receives its satisfaction in the fullest way. Just as, with the opening of the eye we can see the world, and according to the degree of our sight we come to see the subtlest thing of the environment, so also, by our inner awakenment of the fullest type, we come to a particular world, environment, and that is Vrindavana – Goloka Vrindavana, the land of love. And movement there is spontaneous; and all around, we find the environment only friendly. It is so simple, so friendly; and the dealing of all who are there are filled with so much intimacy.

And in Vrindavana we will find that our thirst for any higher change of environment, of association, no longer needs to be quenched; but there is thirst, eternal thirst, for coming in closer relation with them, closer connection with them. There is no possibility of any higher change of environment – where he has reached is almost final – and now the only remaining thing, is how to come into a more and more close connection with the environment. And that becomes the initiative of our movement there: more and more intimate connection with the environment. The environment is eternal, but in the intimacy of connection – the ‘competition’ (in loving service), the movement, is there. And the guidance is given according to that.

In this way, there is progress. There is some sort of ‘necessity’, by which the service is moving. And, there is repetition – a kind of ‘repetition’, but it is ever-fresh, ever-new! It is ever-new, and it is only a question of the time. For example, every day when I am hungry, in the morning, food is tasteful to me, and not always – by the movement of the time, it is like that. In this way, everything is palatable, not stale. In that plane, there is movement of time, but it is eternal. It is managed by yogamaya (the internal potency of Lord Krishna, who arranges and conducts His lila) in such a way.

And finally, there we will attain the fullest satisfaction of all the inner parts of our system, the wholesale satisfaction of every atom of every constituent part of our spiritual body: priti anga lage kale, priti anga mora – “Every part of my every limb, cries for union with the corresponding part of every limb of the other side”. Sambandha – relationship with the environment – may come to such a stage, that every atom constituting my spiritual body and mind, will aspire after union with every corresponding part of the environment.

In this way, in such a friendly way, so many are moving there, and it is adjusted accordingly by yogamaya. And this is the highest conception.

Priti anga lage kale, priti anga mora – “Every atom of my existence is in loving aspiration with the environment, and that is Krishna. Krishna consciousness has surrounded me.” ‘Surrounded me’ means, “From all sides it has embraced me; I am lost in the thought of Krishna consciousness, with its detailed, elaborate acquaintance. I am merged, merged in the deepest part of Krishna consciousness, where I shall find “Krishna has captured every atom of my existence. Every atom is feeling as if it is experiencing separate pleasure by His embracing….”

This is possible only in consorthood relationship, where every atom has been embraced, captured, by coming into the most intimate connection with Him. It is called adi-rasa, or mukhya-rasa. The name of madhurya-rasa is adi-rasa, that is, it is the most original, it is the source of all other rasas, and all other rasas are dependent on it. So it is called ‘adi-rasa’. And, mukhya-rasa: the sum total of all ‘rasas’ – their gist, their essence, is represented there. We are told like that.

And Mahaprabhu came with this gift – madhurya-rasa. It is anarpita carim cirat, “that which was never distributed before” – that of which, it is considered, any distribution was not possible previously, before Him.

In Bhaktivinod Thakur’s book Jaiva Dharma, we find that one Vaisnava is asking his Gurudeva, “Devotion, it is eternal; but why do you say that it came from Mahaprabhu?” Then his Guru, Paramahamsa Babaji, is saying, “I visited Vrindavana and asked the eternal servitor of Sri Caitanyadeva, Sanatana Goswami: “This anarpita carim cirat – “which has never been dealt with before” – what is the meaning underlying it?” Then Sanatana Goswami replied: “Bhakti is eternal; in ‘Narada-bhakti-sutra’, ‘Sandilya-sutra’, all such scriptures, this has been given – but the type of devotion which Mahaprabhu came with, which we meet after the advent of Mahaprabhu Sri Caitanyadeva, that was not previously at any time open to the ordinary person. So, it is called ‘anarpita carim’. And what is that standard of devotion? It is this: complete surrender to Krishna in consorthood, where every atom of the jiva-soul gets welcomed and embraced by the corresponding atom of Krishna consciousness – madhura-rasa. That was not open to the public before. This is my finding, my faith. You may accept, or not accept …” Sanatana Goswami told like this to that Vaisnava: “This is my private conception – you may take it, or not”. This was his reply.

So devotion has its beginning; the beginning of devotional life is here, where Krishna says ‘vasudevah sarvam iti ….’ (Bhagavad-gita 7.19) (“I, Vasudeva, am the soruce and substance of all that be”). Then, the beginning of bhakti, the primary admission into the devotional school above ‘jnana’ – knowledge - and vairagya – renunciation, that is santa-rasa (‘passive’ relationship with the Lord.) And from there the gradation: dasya-rasa (servitude); then sakhya-rasa (fraternity); then vatsalya-rasa (parenthood); then madhura-rasa (conjugal). All this is given in details in ‘ramananda-samvada’.

In this way, bhakti is going up. Systematically, we are to understand, and digest, digest what is ‘bhakti’. But, in the beginning, we are to have a broad conception of the positive world, the world of dedication.

bija · November 28, 2006

Too much engagement in defeating each other, may i remind all Gaudiya Vaisnavas that the battle is against Maya not each other. quote by Sridas

Thanks for the admonition. Especially after what you have just posted. A timely reminder that we are heading toward this goal together. Sorry.

Ayodhya · November 28, 2006

hello everybody,

I am currently in a fierce debate on a Romanian forum at Softpedia.com; I would appreciate any help I can get to defend the authority of Vyasadeva and to prove that zoroastrism is earlier than the Vedas. Also, the greatest problem is that I cannot find a answer to the provoking question: "If Vishnu is so great then why are all the shruti vedas focusing on indra and the others?". For more clarity, I will translate parts of the message I am having difficulty with.

"Come on, be serious with this vyasa guy. isn't he the one who "wrote" mahabharata?Or, are there 5000 years-old manuscripts that have survived and I don't know about is? You should do some research on when the Veda was put in writing. You will be surprized! Guaranteed."

"And them , what about the internal evidence within the Veda [he is refering to the 4 vedas] What about the linguistic changes [???]? And how do you explain the parallels between the vedic texts and the persian and avestan texts(which can be very precisely dated? How do you explain the fact that if Vishnu is the greatest and the coolest he is a somewhat secondary characted in the Vedas and he barely appears, whereas later in the later vedic literature the other deites almost disappear (not to mention the treaties from Mittani where Indra, Mitra, Varuna are evoked)".

"How the heck do you explain that aryans have lived in the cities from the Sindh valley, but there is no urban life mentioned in the Vedas [again, he is refering to the 4 vedas?"

"On what criteria do you accept the authority of BG/SB translation of prabhupad if you do not know the language? Do you like the cover? Have you ever read a vedic text?"

I will not bother to try to convince anybody of anything but this discussion is public and I hate not to be able to defend Prabhupad and the Vaisnava point of view in front of people who are really interested about it[there are some symphatizers of bhakti among the users].

I would really be grateful if somebody who has knowledge in these issues, would help me out here

Thank you in advance,

Hare Krishna

If you still need information about this dharmapurusha, you should Google works on how the Aryan-Invasion Theory has been essentially debunked. The true migration was not from Iran to India, but instead, the other way around.

From Africa, humans moved to India and then from there, they moved in Central Asia, only to move back again. Everything is a theory, obviously, and when scientists find that Hinduism did develop in the Motherland, it will be as such.

Read this:

http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/AMT.html

Sridas · November 28, 2006

Thanks for the admonition. Especially after what you have just posted. A timely reminder that we are heading toward this goal together. Sorry.

I don't have anything against difference Bija the spiritual world is full of variegatedness acintya bheda-bhed and in familiarity those players can even insult each other in fun and it is all beautiful.

It's just when it continually reverts to vaisnava aparadhe in these exchanges. I feel it is extremely distastastful to visitors and probably turns many prospective participants away, as most see it as immature and then they may just move on to some other arena that offers sweeter co-operative harmony, where the play is more fun.

Something else I've noticed in all this macho spirit is that it's a turn off to the Vaisnavis..... the dasis who often have a substantial contribution also. Once upon a time the forums used to have more interest for all when the ladies could express their views and sentiments also.

Don't be sorry mate, the shoe doesn't fit you.

I get rather arrogant myself at times but I try to remember Guru Maharajs' view of us as 'Sons and daughters of the Ocean of nectar', that doesn't mean that's just me, it means the vision I have of you too.

The asuras stirred the poison and the devotees churned the nectar

We can aspire for the path of Prahlad Maharaj or maybe Hannibal Lekta

nitai16108 · November 28, 2006

Hare Krishna

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Everybody please accept my humble obeisances

i want to say onething that the Topic is going somewhere other than the real topic.Please we can discuss deeper in faith about what we have and also the ways to increase our faith.

Vijayakrishnan

nitai16108 · November 28, 2006

Hare Krishna

All glories to srila prabhupad

dear dharmapurusha

dandavats...

dharmapurusha has said,

"And them , what about the internal evidence within the Veda [he is refering to the 4 vedas] What about the linguistic changes [???]? And how do you explain the parallels between the vedic texts and the persian and avestan texts(which can be very precisely dated? How do you explain the fact that if Vishnu is the greatest and the coolest he is a somewhat secondary characted in the Vedas and he barely appears, whereas later in the later vedic literature the other deites almost disappear (not to mention the treaties from Mittani where Indra, Mitra, Varuna are evoked)".

"How the heck do you explain that aryans have lived in the cities from the Sindh valley, but there is no urban life mentioned in the Vedas [again, he is refering to the 4 vedas?"

"On what criteria do you accept the authority of BG/SB translation of prabhupad if you do not know the language? Do you like the cover? Have you ever read a vedic text?"

This is the thread to discuss the Faith devotees have with them and not to spoil the faith on Srila Prabhupada and his work of Srimad Bhagavad gita and Srimad Bhagavatam.

iam saying that and not only me everybody who is self-realized will accept Srila Prabhupad's work and teachings. Everybody who is born in INDIA are civilized means naturally they have the knowledge about Lord Krsna and Bhakti. but Srila Prabhupad wanted to spread all over the world and every nook and corner of the world.

Even that is the order of sri chaitanya mahaprabhu

Kali-yuge yuga-dharma-namera pracara

tathi laagi pita-varna caitanyavatara

"The religious practice for the age of Kali is to broadcast the glories of th holy name. Only for this purpose has the Lord, in a yellow color, descended as Lord Caitanya."

Today in this world nearly 650 crore people are living out of that how much people are in this bhakti cult. we can count in our hands. so Prabhupad is one of the authority of the disciplic succession from Lord chaitanya mahprabhu. so due to Prabhupad's work lot of people are civilized as humans from their material life. so if you have faith in Srila Prabhupad then you can follow him otherwise dont spoil others faith on him and his work.

"On what criteria do you accept the authority of BG/SB translation of prabhupad if you do not know the language? Do you like the cover? Have you ever read a vedic text?"

and if you are sincere then i think the language will not be a big problem. Krsna gives you that intelligence to know about the Lord. Chant in good association and Hear your chanting without any divertion and that will help you to get out of this faithlessness.

Srila Prabhupad says that His Bhagavad gita will be here for another ten thousand years. and alone is going to save all the jivas who are in this material world. we dont have any qualification to speak about Prabhupad or leave a comment on his activities.

Once two disciples of Srila prabhupad and Srila Prabhupada were been travelling in flight. that time one of the disciple asked whether he is liking to eat any prasadam. Prabhupad replied, " Give me some prasadam and disciples given some prasadam which was made from Rice.Prabhupad eat half of that packet and given rest of prasadam to his disciples. Suddenly a Air hostress took one hand full of that prasadam and eat them which was been eaten by Srila prabhupad.two disciples got shocked and not stoped her or not replied. Srila prabhupad just noticed these things. this is the first part .

The second part is Once devotees from ISKCON visited a village in russia which they are visiting for the first time which was inside aa forest. There in one house they happened to see the pictures of Srila Prabhupad and pictures of some deities and complete work of Srila prabhupad like Bhagavad gita and Srimad Bhagavatam.There was only one mataji in that house.That mathaji was the Air hostess who have eaten the remanents of Srila Prabhupad. She cooked and served a group of 15 devotees who went there.How much mercy ?

Even a hand full of remanents changed a mathaji to a first class vaishnave then why not his Teachings save all of us including Me and You.This one example is sufficient for all your questions isnt it? Hari bol.

Hare Krishna

Vijayakrishnan

Guruvani · November 28, 2006

You bemoan the divisivness of GBC and Iskcon, but you yourself are a poster boy of divisivnes and cultish behavior.

Actually, I am so far away from any cult that you would never even know that I was once a Hare Krishna devotee.

I am am just an average working class American guy.

Heck, I left the cult over 20 years ago.

In fact, I have a theme song.

It goes along to the tune of "ghost busters" from the movie.

It goes like this....

"if there is something strange in your neighborhood,

who you gonna call.................CULT BUSTERS.."

I fancy myself as a cult-buster rather than a cult member or cult advocate.

;)

Kulapavana · November 28, 2006

NOD chapter 5,

The following is cited from Bhaktivedanta Swami's purport on Caitanya Caritamrita, Adi-lila 11.8, wherein he cites Bhaktisiddhanta:

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in his Anubhasya,

“Virabhadra Gosani was the direct son of Srila Nityananda Prabhu and a disciple of Jahnava-devi. His real mother was Vasudha. In the Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika (67) he is mentioned as an incarnation of Ksirodakasayi Visnu. Therefore Virabhadra Gosani is nondifferent from Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. In a village of the name Jhamatapura, in the district of Hugli, Virabhadra Gosani had a disciple named Yadunathacarya, who had two daughters -- a real daughter named Srimati and a foster daughter named Narayani. Both these daughters married, and they are mentioned in the Bhakti-ratnakara (Thirteenth Wave). Virabhadra Gosani had three disciples who are celebrated as his sons -- Gopijana-vallabha, Ramakrsna and Ramacandra. The youngest, Ramacandra, belonged to the Sandilya dynasty and had the surname Vatavyala. He established his family at Khadadaha, and its members are known as the gosvamis of Khadadaha. The eldest disciple, Gopijana-vallabha, was a resident of a village known as Lata, near the Manakara railway station in the district of Burdwan. The second, Ramakrsna, lived near Maladaha, in a village named Gayesapura.”

many great Vaishnavas appeared in that line. we should think about them when we speak about Nityananda-vamsa, not some modern bhaktas who tried to derive material profit from their lineage. They were not "suppressing the sankirtan movement for 400 years" - at worst, they can be accused of not making a better use of the gift they received. Besides, they were only just one branch of Lord Caitanya's tree. are you going to badmouth all the Gaudiyas for your imaginary 400 year "suppression"? can you conceive of the sankirtan movement taking root in 17th century Europe? there is a proper time for everything. can you imagine Prabhupada starting the movement in 1950's? think a little before you start spouting your mud slinging.

sanatan · November 28, 2006

....can you conceive of the sankirtan movement taking root in 17th century Europe? there is a proper time for everything. can you imagine Prabhupada starting the movement in 1950's? think a little before you start spouting your mud slinging.

Good observation.

Having lived through that time, IMO the 1960's were truly the window of opportunity for evangelical Gaudiya Vaisnavism in America and Europe...SP's timing was right on.

Beggar · November 28, 2006

I am am just an average working class American guy.

;)

As soon as your born they make you feel small,

By giving you no time instead of it all,

Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,

A working class hero is something to be,