Justin

The point is that Gaudiyas are spreading a fairy tales about Sri Vaishnavism. They have been spreading false stuff against Bhagavad Ramanujacharya and his disciple succession. Did you guys read the OP. [There is one more confidential story. Ramanujacharya once came to Puri and pleased the Lord with many prayers. Jagannatha appeared before him and said, `Go and see Navadvipa-dhama, for I will soon appear there in the house of Jagannatha Misra. "With folded hands, Ramanuja submitted to Jagannatha, `In Your narration You have mentioned Gauranga, but exactly who He is, I do not know.' "The Lord mercifully replied to Ramanuja, `Everyone knows Krishna, the Lord of Goloka. That Krishna, whose vilasa-murti is Narayana, is the Supreme Truth, and He resides in Vrndavana. That Krishna is fully manifest in the form of Gauranga, and that Vrndavana is fully manifest in the form of Navadvipa-dhama. I eternally reside as Lord Gauranga in Navadvipa, the topmost abode in the universe. "Hearing this, the sober-minded Ramanuja was agitated with love for Gauranga. He said, `Lord, Your pastimes are truly astounding. The scriptures cannot know Your opulences. Why isn't Gauranga-nama-lila clearly described in the scriptures? When I closely examine the sruti and Puranas, now I can see the verses about the Gauranga-tattva. After hearing Your instructions, my doubts are gone and the sweet mellows of Gauranga's pastimes have arisen in my heart. If You order me, after going to Navadvipa I will preach Gauranga-nama-lila throughout the three worlds. I will give people evidence from the hidden scriptures and establish devotional service to Gauranga throughout the universe and make all the three worlds into Gauranga- bhaktas and make them chant Gauranga's Name. Please instruct me.' "Seeing Ramanuja's eagerness, Jagannatha said, `Ramanuja, do not broadcast like this. Keep the confidential name, pastimes and abode of Gauranga secret. Only after Gauranga has finished His pastimes will the general public receive them. For now, preach dasya-rasa, while in your heart worship and chant the name of Gauranga constantly.' "Taking the Lord's advice, Ramanuja secretly cultured his attraction for Navadvipa. So that Gauranga's pastimes were not revealed prematurely, Lord Narayana then led Ramanuja here to Vaikunthapura and mercifully showed Ramanuja His transcendental form served by Shri, Bhu, and Nila. Ramanuja considered himself fortunate to obtain darsana of his worshipable Lord, when suddenly he saw the Lord assume the enchanting form of Gauranga, the son of Jagannatha Misra. Ramanuja swooned at the brilliance of the form. Then Gauranga put His lotus feet on the head of Ramanuja, who was thus divinely inspired and recited prayers of praise. `I must see Gauranga's actual lila on earth. I can never leave Navadvipa!' On his death bed Shri Ramanuja is said to have articulated some statements to his disciples.]

Here is the truth: Gaudiyas had no authenticity of disciple succession. So they made it up. Laxmi never taught Sri Ramanuja and Brahma never taught Sri Madhva. This is all made up. Then they plagiarized the works of Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhva, Sri Vallabha, and Sri Sankara. They put all their great works in a pool and christened it gaudiya vaishnavism. They poured some of their own concoctions in the pool. Replaced Shriman Narayana with Krsna so to make this cocktail appear as original.

Are you guys know what you are talking? From where are you recording events that say the envious Sri Vaishnavas wanted gaudiyas to get the boot? Bhagavad Ramanujacharya's are far better than your cocktail mixture philosophy. You guys plagiarize the works from all the great acharyas and then say you are the most pristine. What a confused lot

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Here is another fabricated tale: Around this time, the members of the Sri sampradaya (Ramanujacharya's followers) began to raise some arguments in the court of the king at Jaipur. They complained that as the Gaudiya Vaishnavas had no commentary on the Vedanta sutra, they were not qualified to worship the Deity and therefore the worship should be turned over to the Sri sampradaya. They also objected to the worship of Srimati Radharani along with Sri Sri Govinda-Gopinatha as not being authorised anywhere in the shastras. Bringing the commentary with him, Sri Baladeva again came to the assembly of the Ramanandi scholars. After reading the commentary they were simply speechless. Thus the victory of the Gaudiya sampradaya was announced far and wide and the king, as well as the other devotees, began to float in the ocean of bliss. The scholars then bestowed upon Sri Baladeva the title 'Vidyabhusana'. This assembly took place in the year 1628 Sakabda, at Golta near the present city of Jaipur. Baladeva Vidyabhusana installed the Deity of Vijaya Gopala there at Golta Mandira, but the whereabouts of this Deity are at present not known. From this day the Maharaja of Jaipur announced that Sri Govinda's arati would be performed first and then the other temples could perform their aratis. After accepting defeat, the Sri Vaishnava scholars expressed their desire to accept initiation from Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana. However, he declined their request by stating that amongst the four authorised sampradayas, the Sri sampradaya was highly respectable and the foremost adherent of dasya-bhakti (devotion in servitorship). If there was any cause of loss of respect to the sampradaya this might be considered an offense.

After seeing all the discussions in another thread I am exited to present a Gaudiya version of Bhagavad Ramanujacharya's education. According to the gaudiyas this is a confidential story that is not known to anyone but took place only between Gauranga and Bhagavad Ramanujacharya. Somehow today it is a well known secret [There is one more confidential story. Ramanujacharya once came to Puri and pleased the Lord with many prayers. Jagannatha appeared before him and said, `Go and see Navadvipa-dhama, for I will soon appear there in the house of Jagannatha Misra. "With folded hands, Ramanuja submitted to Jagannatha, `In Your narration You have mentioned Gauranga, but exactly who He is, I do not know.' "The Lord mercifully replied to Ramanuja, `Everyone knows Krishna, the Lord of Goloka. That Krishna, whose vilasa-murti is Narayana, is the Supreme Truth, and He resides in Vrndavana. That Krishna is fully manifest in the form of Gauranga, and that Vrndavana is fully manifest in the form of Navadvipa-dhama. I eternally reside as Lord Gauranga in Navadvipa, the topmost abode in the universe. "Hearing this, the sober-minded Ramanuja was agitated with love for Gauranga. He said, `Lord, Your pastimes are truly astounding. The scriptures cannot know Your opulences. Why isn't Gauranga-nama-lila clearly described in the scriptures? When I closely examine the sruti and Puranas, now I can see the verses about the Gauranga-tattva. After hearing Your instructions, my doubts are gone and the sweet mellows of Gauranga's pastimes have arisen in my heart. If You order me, after going to Navadvipa I will preach Gauranga-nama-lila throughout the three worlds. I will give people evidence from the hidden scriptures and establish devotional service to Gauranga throughout the universe and make all the three worlds into Gauranga- bhaktas and make them chant Gauranga's Name. Please instruct me.' "Seeing Ramanuja's eagerness, Jagannatha said, `Ramanuja, do not broadcast like this. Keep the confidential name, pastimes and abode of Gauranga secret. Only after Gauranga has finished His pastimes will the general public receive them. For now, preach dasya-rasa, while in your heart worship and chant the name of Gauranga constantly.' "Taking the Lord's advice, Ramanuja secretly cultured his attraction for Navadvipa. So that Gauranga's pastimes were not revealed prematurely, Lord Narayana then led Ramanuja here to Vaikunthapura and mercifully showed Ramanuja His transcendental form served by Shri, Bhu, and Nila. Ramanuja considered himself fortunate to obtain darsana of his worshipable Lord, when suddenly he saw the Lord assume the enchanting form of Gauranga, the son of Jagannatha Misra. Ramanuja swooned at the brilliance of the form. Then Gauranga put His lotus feet on the head of Ramanuja, who was thus divinely inspired and recited prayers of praise. `I must see Gauranga's actual lila on earth. I can never leave Navadvipa!' On his death bed Shri Ramanuja is said to have articulated some statements to his disciples.]

You may speak for yourself and admit your religion is faulty. But please do not speak for everyone else. Have you studied any other school of thought other than Vivekananda's politically correct opinions? Out of many religions you cannot preclude the possibility that one among them is the correct one. When you have no knowledge of different schools of thought within Hinduism itself, you obviously cannot say for sure that every philosophy/religion has flaws. Reading some new age illogical stuff taught by modern godmen obviously leads to such world views and does not promote any logical thinking. Here are your quotes in the previous posts (see post # 71 and the rest) as a refresher. You seem to have a knack of contradicting yourself each time: "i dont tolerate those who have never been educated on how to tolerate . infact 'tolerate' is again a derogatory term . when i say 'i tolerate ' it automatically implies that although i dislike other religions i dont raise a voice." "but at the same time i dont want anybody to criticise other peoples much cherished beliefs ." "how can a religion ( or belief ) that creates sectarianism and rifts in the society be of any collective benefit to the mankind ?" Keeping quiet against criminals (whether religious or not) only encourages them even more. There will no law and order in your kind of society. you have said all religions are equally valid and you respect them. And then you criticise other religions saying other religions are sectarian. You say you do not tolerate people who criticise. Is this not a criticism of people who criticise? I must say that you lack scientific and rational logic. Who is confused here ha ha!!! I am not from Iskcon and am not defending your attacks against them. You have thrown many stones at them and condemned other religions before. I was just having a debate and tried to show the loopholes and the lack of logic in your posts particularly post #71 and the rest that followed from Vivekananda's cookbook.

Why are you following your religion when you yourself say it is faulty? You are backtracking on your earlier posts. You said that you cannot tolerate criticism and now you are trying to put a different spin on it. Person A tries to fool people by doing magic tricks in the name of religion and takes away their hard earned money. B tries to preach new age rubbish and calls it absolute religious truth. C has decided to kill others in the name of religion. He believes he will achieve liberation by doing so. Do you mentally speculate their faults and leave them aside or do you step up to the plate and condemn them? What happened to your tolerance on my beliefs! Now you are going against your own funda and started calling my ideals as 'not applicable'. Can't you accept my flawed thinking and mentally speculate instead of writing against my belief in public in this forum? True what appears to be deception to one may not appear for others. So if I find something to be deceptive you suggest I keep keep my mouth shut, mentally speculate and wear bangles? REading the posts from the begining, no one tried to push their beliefs to you and tried to convert you. Yet you started writing that you do not tolerate their views. By striking against their beliefs and writing in this forum you have publicly proclaimed the beliefs of others as illogical. Next time do not say yes or no. Just keep it inside and let it go. Otherwise you will end up contradicting yourself.

You asked, .... I responded, and .... if you still did not get the hint, .... let me make it easy for ya and write that .... its a waste of time having any sensible discussion on your posts .... you are a loose cannon in this forum .... a mischievous post like yours deserves a michievous response Cheers.

Their concept of oneness is rice=every other grain. Wheat is the ego. We goofs think it is wheat. Once Wheat vanishes you will discover that it was originally rice. It was only because of your foolishness you were thinking it was wheat, barley, oats, maida, etc. Once their stupidity evaporates and they obtain realization they will find that they cannot even put a certain attribute such as weight, width etc. to the rice (because it is nirguna). Whats even worse is they do not even call it 'rice' after their pigheadedness dissolves because they cannot even describe what it is. So they spin it up as anirvachInIya (cannot express THAT). In order to explain this unreasonable philosophy they take support of quackery and cloak it in analogies (rice is not wheat but 3 kgs is the common factor), or develop illogical 'scientific models', or use word jugglery such as real-unreal, etc

His model seems to be broken, thats why

Primate, science has not yet defined consciousness. No one in this world has any knowledge of consciousness except as described by the scriptures. No scientist has any evidence or an inkling of consciousness to even explain it using a model. Models can be drawn to suit ones purpose and can be twisted any which way you want it to be. There is no point in trying to describe 'scientifically' something that you have absolutely no idea about.

It is quackery in the guise of a 'scientific theory'. This proof is another one of the several thousands of attempts by monists who grasp at straws of science to mask their weak philosophy as 'scientific'

Forget about Vedic religion vs. other religion which you are trying to divert the conversation to. Let me clarify again - if I find flaws in your belief do you feel disgusted? (which you said you would if anyone criticizes). If there are several loopholes in a faith I may have to condemn it for it is pointless in following a lovely religion that has elements of deception that some will never find out. Will you label me as sectarian in the above cases? If the answer is 'Yes', then you are consistent with your earlier posts and also you become a sectarian by your very logic. If the answer is 'No', then you have self-contradicted yourself.

I am confused by your posts. You are providing a personal opinion explaining the purpose of the Vedic religion. Personal opinions differ from individual to individual. So if anyone disagrees with you, does that make that person a sectarian? You consider anyone who does not follow Vedic religion to be sectarian. You wrote that you get irritated when someone points out flaws. Why not be tolerant towards those people and give them respect instead of denouncing people who disagree? Are you sure that Vedas can be practiced by every Tom, Dick and Sally!!?

Vedic religion was not purposed for the collective benefit of mankind. It talks about God and how an interested individual can attain Him. There are people who do not believe in God or have wrong notions about God. Vedic religion was not meant to and will not benefit such people. Sectarianism is created automatically. Those who do not believe in a religious path have their own sect. E.g. there are people who said humanity is greater than divinity. They formed their own sect and are now throwing stones at anyone who practices Godliness. Those who believe in a particular path are already sectarian in a sense. For e.g. you said that when people blaspehemize others beliefs, you get irritiated and you DO NOT want them to criticize. This itself indicates that you are intolerant towards people who do not share your world view. Unknowingly you are criticizing those people who do not agree with your opinion.

You bet, dark warrior has multiple ids and he moves in mysterious ways. His avatars range in representing Mayavada to VD to Tattvavada. This proud friend of mine has the guts to take the attack right to the opponents camp even if it means putting his id at stake

and you are reasoning that reason is a problem! I have seen you trying to give reasons for every non-dualistic belief of yours and now you say you do not use reason. You say you are like a scientist. Science is strongly based on reason. In the posts you have used the keyword scientific "reason" for all your experiences. Are you fighting some tremendous conflicts within yourself that seems to confuse you between science and experiences?

Ok, let me explain for those who did not understand my original question. So in this scenario, there was the Lord Sri Krishna and then there was Uddhava who he was teaching to. This doesn't sound right for non-dualism. 'Teaching' consists of a 'Teacher' and the 'taught'. If Sri Krishna is God and nothing else exists other than Him, who was he teaching to? to a person? or to Himself?

Bhaja Govindam and mahishasura mardhini Amazing! You might have got this sixth sense because of your meditation!

Who was God teaching Advaita to? Just want to know who listened or received it, thats all.

He exclaimed "I got it, finally, yoohoo!" and then kicked the bucket

Dearest Bart, I see you really were lying when you said I wasted your time Love and kind regards, Justin.

Dearest Bart, I don't know why you ask me to argue with you each time. As I said earlier I stopped arguing against your posts long time ago and it does not matter anymore. After reading and refuting your posts on quantum entanglement, it is quite clear that you are not a quantum scientist. There is no point in continuing discussion with someone who has a bit of knowledge of quantum physics and scriptures and does not know what is the difference between the two fields. Please do yourself a favor. The next time if you get frustrated with my posts, do not spend time criticizing my behavior. Since you were so concerned at one point in time about off-topic posts, the best you can do to contribute is to ignore my posts, turn a blind eye, and refrain from making condescending remarks. Love and kind regards, Justin.

Dearest Bart, Enough counter arguments were presented to you earlier and in other threads by me as well as many others. You have only a bit of knowledge in both science and scriptures as your responses reflect that. You are no scientist. Now if you keep wanting people to constantly argue against a strawman proposal all the time, it is a waste of their time. Counter arguments are placed when there is a good enough argument in the first place. So far you have been repeating the same personal theory for each counter argument. The response is usually in fashionable words like quantum entanglement and mandelbrot to describe this universe and God. It is clear that you have already assumed you are right and any contrary opinion to yours is wrong. So any number of counter arguments presented is a waste of time. With love and kind regards, Justin.