jijaji

On the one hand it seems, unless we go to a temple, have Deity worship in our home, (our somebody's home) there is no advancement. On the other hand Prabhupada was eminently practical as can be understood by the above quote.

I cannot and will not have Deities in my home - it is impractical (and therefore artificial) with my life style.

But thank you for outlining the black and white requirements which clearly exclude me and countless others from participating in the bhakti marga.

Where you get this from, what about Haridas Thakur..?

We are told that the 'real' diksa is initiation into gayatri , which is termed the 'brahminical' initiation. What mantra would it be if not gayatri?

Try Gopal mantra for starters (which is what Sri Chaitanys got from Isvara Puri, not gayatri at all) that has been given in the Gaudiya Sampradaya for over 400 years prior to this inovation by Gaudiya Math.

There was never such a thing as 'brahminical' initiation in Gaudiya Vaishnavism before Gaudiya Math...NEVER

Study the history

Gaudiya Math claims diksha mantras contain ' gayatri mantra', this is wrong. Sri Chaitanyas sampradaya never used any diksha mantras mixed with gayatri before GV...

Sri Chaitanya never received gayatri from Isvara Puri at Gaya...

That Bhaktivinode Thakur's diska guru is not mentioned by Prabhupada speaks for itself and his taking Jaganatha das Babaji to be Bhaktivinode Thakur's spiritual master, shows irrefutably that formal diksa is NOT the condition for membership in the parampara.

No it does not at all, it only shows Prabupada accepted the Gaudiya Math version of all this and loyal to BSS version of things.

Do you think BVT lied about Bipin Behari being his Guru..?

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If by Jagat jijaji means Jagadananda Das, who BTW is aligned with Lalita Prasad, then that Jagat gives no clue in his paper "The Parampara Institution In Gaudiya Vaisnavism" that Bhaktisiddhanta was 'kicked out' by his father. In fact my on line searches don't reveal a single such reference.

Yes Jagananda goes by Jagat and no that story in not in his Parampara article, I was only suggesting you read the entire article you quoted from as it contains a wealth of information on Gaudiya Math history. I'm not sure if it is in any of his works, although I can ask him. These stories came from Lalita Prasad himself who told devotess who came to him and took diksha, several whom I know personally.

Just because you can't find a reference on-line does not mean it did not occur, in fact I know it was discussed on Gaudiya Discussions, the old istagosthi and on VNN forums back in the day (all no longer on line) regardless I would not limit your reserach in GV to what you can locate on line.

namaskar,

jijaji

I know.. this video really takes you there man! I have watched many times already today...

I just want to say that I'm not here to badmouth Bhaktivedanta Svamiji or Bhaktisiddhanta, I went through that phase some years ago and for a while I admit when I first found out about IGM not having a proper Guru-parampara as is recognized in orthodox Gaudiya Vaishnavism, i.e. going back in an unbroken diksha line to one of the associates of Sri Chaitanya.

I have since gotten over some of my bitterness (I hope) and see things in a different light, meaning I honor all my spiritual teachers that have blessed me in this life even though I may disagree with them on certain points.

The stories of Bhaktisiddhanta being kicked out of Bhaktivinodes home and Puri were told to devotees primarily by Lalita Prasad as he was a direct witness and saw 1st hand.

Now some accept Lalitas Prasads version others accept Bhaktisiddantas and never shall the twain meet it seems.

I for one accept Lallita Prasads version and have for many years, decades in fact. The pieces of the puzzle just fit, Lalita Prasad got diksha from Bhaktivinode, Bhaktisiddhanta did not, so therefore he could not pass that line of diksha down to Gaudiya Math.

Also the fact that Sannyas was never before seen in the Gaudiya Sampradaya before Gaudiya Math or 'brahmin initiation', and so many things that Bhaktisiddhanta introduced that were never there before seems was his replacement for not having received diksah from his father and he paved a new road of sorts.

However this is not to say that his or GM and Bhaktivedanta Svamijis efforts were not worthwhile and didn't benefit people spiritually and put them on the path of Krishna Bhakti (I believe they did).

I recommend cbrahma read from Jagats article that he quoted from earlier the section on "The Gaudiya Math after Bhaktisiddhantas Death' which gives much history in this regard as well as other articles by Jagat who really is one of the foremost scholars of Gaudiya Vaishnavism today in the western world (although he's been in India for some months now).

namaskar,

jijaji

Who said it was discussed on this board? Mainly on Gaudiya Discussions and here long before you came really.

Besides any proof I give you won't accept, we both know that. I been around the block a bit on these issues and don't waste time anymore with people like you.

Kula and mr 3 of spades can if they like.

namaskar,

jijaji

Therefore Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati publicly chastised Bipin Gosvami and made it appear that two exalted pure devotees, father and son, had a difference of opinion.

This story is complete Gaudiya Math fabrication (not the only one either I may add), water under the bridge really, these things have been discussed and rehashed so many times ad nauseum I can't believe I'm even here talking about it.

I don't have to give you proof, you will stumble upon it yourself eventually if you keep digging, as many of us did decades ago.

(big yawn)

This story is false and was made up by Gaudiya Math. The truth is Bhaktisiddhanta was kicked out of his fathers house after he offended Bepin Behari Gosvami in the same way Bhaktivinode made him leave Puri after he had offended Radharaman Charana dev. Sorry for stating such a harsh truth here, for all you wet behind the ears.

namaskar,

jijaji

Your welcome!

It's one of the best video clips I have seen on Radha Kund. Great footage of the Sangam and everything else. Makes me want to go this year.

namaskar,

jijaji

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My dear Rupanuga Maharaja,

 

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of April 17, from Washington D.C. and I have very carefully noted the contents.

 

[...] Actually amongst my godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially [names three sannyasi godbrothers] but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.[...]

 

Since the recipients of basically all these letters left Prabhupada's movement - could be that the whole thing has to be seen through sastra and not through instructions according time and circumstance.

In other words, is Ananta dasa Babaji an uttama adikari, what can be answered, to what degree did he accomplish to fullfill the orders of his guru?

The letter you quote has nothing to do with Ananta dasji, it refers to Gaudiya Math entirely.

namaskar,

jijaji

Where does Ananta dasa babaji and other Babajis from traditional orthodox Gaudiya Vaishnava lines fit into all this?

I know the initiated women were not allowed to live in the Maths...

namaskar

Jijaji, the 7.18 reference from the Mausala Parvan is not present in the BORI critical edition and as you can see from the mention of Devaki, Rohini and Rukmini there is clearly some confusion there. Verse 24 of Chapter 8 in the Crit Ed mentions four wives of Vasudeva, Krishna's father, mounting his funeral pyre. Verse 31 of the same chapter describes Arjuna's burning of the bodies of Rama and Vaasudeva, but there is no mention at that point of their wives becoming sati.

 

The reference from the Vishnu Purana is 5.38.2. Thank you for that.

Thank you for the critique,

namaskaram

Several of Krishna's wives performed Sati upon his death, including Rukmini, Rohini, Devaki, Bhadraa and Madura

[M.Bh. Mausalaparvan 7.18] [Alld.Ch. 977, 1018-1019: Rukmini]

Madri, second wife of Pandu, considered an incarnation of the goddess Dhriti, performed Sati

[M.Bh. Adiparvan 95.65] [Alld Ch 985]

Rohini, a wife of Vasudev, Krishna's father, who gave birth to Balram ( Devki's child) and later became a Sati.

[Alld. Ch. 1018]

"The 8 queens of Krishna, who have been named, with Rukmini at their head, embraced the body of Hari, and entered the funeral fire. Revati also embracing the corpse of Rama, entered the blazing pile, which was cool to her, happy in contact with her lord. Hearing these events, Ugrasena and Anakadundubhi, with Devaki and Rohini, committed themselves to the flames."

[Vishnu Pur. 5.38] [Vishnu Pur. {Wilson} p.481]

I do not live in a temple and have not since late November 1977....

see ya...

SORRY I CHECKED THIS FORUM OUT AGAIN....

SAYING JEW HATER IS TOO MUCH FOR ME...

GONE

Translation: I am a bomb thrower, I find articles that support my world view but cannot back them with facts or statements of my own.

 

Hint: this is a DISCUSSION board not a spam and run board

Both of you know little of what journalism means...and hardly want a discussion yourself but are like bulls to red when any opinion or headline comes that differs from yours, it's really childish.

Like I said before, I can't believe devotees support some of this crap Israel is doing...

Hezballah is not innocent, I never said that..but neither is Isreal..

last night someone here said jew haters...thats enough for me...

This is not from old time devotees of Krishna I have known in my life for over 34 years, I can tell you that much...

also:

Don you need some serious graphics lessons man...

Sorry but I couldn't resist, I work in multimedia and have for many years and if your gonna post Art (if you call it that) online your gonna get some feedback. My 14 year old daughter would spin circles around your head

..

Hare Krishna

Don,

You been watching too much FOXNEWS bro...

I love Jews, it's the Zionist War Machine I can't stand...

<st1:date year="2006" day="26">July 26, 2006</st1:date>

Israel Orders Deadly Attack On UN For Gathering Evidence For War Crime Trials

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Russian Subscribers

FSB sources are reporting today that Israel has ordered attacks upon United Nations resources in Lebanon who were given orders by the UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan, to cooperate with Lebanonese authorities in the gathering of evidence leading to War Crime Charges against Israeli Military and Political Leaders.

The charges of War Crimes against Israel began with Lebanon’s President, and as we can read as reported by Israel’s Ynet News Service in their article titled "Lebanese president: Israel uses phosphorous arms", and which says:

"Lebanon's president accused Israel on Monday of using phosphorous bombs in its 13-day offensive and urged the United Nations to demand an immediate ceasefire. "According to the Geneva Convention, when they use phosphorous bombs and laser bombs, is that allowed against civilians and children?" President Emile Lahoud asked on France's RFI radio."

Reports from <st1:country-region><st1:place>Lebanon</st1:place></st1:country-region> are also stating that <st1:country-region><st1:place>Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region> has also begun use of chemical weapons in their effort to dislodge Hezbollah fighters from their deep underground bunkers.

Aside from an Israeli bombing attack upon the UN Base in Lebanon that had been tasked with gathering War Crime evidence, and which killed 4 UN Soldiers, Israel Military Leaders have also ordered attacks upon UN and Red Crescent Ambulances for the ‘crime’ of transporting War Crime evidences to UN forces.

Not just to the use of Internationally Banned weapons, but Israeli Military Leaders have also begun an illegal campaign against Lebanonese civilians by targeting them for the sole purpose of revenge, and to which even Israeli Civil Rights Groups have become appalled at, and as we can read as reported by Israel’s Ynet News Service in their article titled "Civil rights group challenges Halutz", and which says:

"The Association for Civil Rights in Israel appealed to Defense Minister Amir Peretz after IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz apparently said that “for every Katyusha barrage on Haifa, 10 more buildings in the Dahiya neighborhood of south Beirut will be bombed.” The association complained that Peretz must clarify to Halutz that it is completely unacceptable to motivate military activity on revenge.

“The grave and illegal targeting of Israeli citizens does not justify such illegal orders, which means the indiscriminate targeting of civilians and civilian interests,” the association said."

Reports from <st1:country-region><st1:place>Lebanon</st1:place></st1:country-region> today are also showing that <st1:country-region><st1:place>Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region> has now begun the targeting of hospitals, and which again is a War Crime against International Law.

At some point in the future, as history has always shown, the committers of War Crime will be brought to final justice as the whole World is indeed a witness to these horrific acts, and the UN has likewise given warning, and as we can read as reported by the American Jurist News Service in their article titled "UN rights commissioner warns of war crimes liability in Middle East conflict", and which says:

"UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour Wednesday threatened perpetrators of wanton violence against civilians in the current Middle East conflict with liability for war crimes. In a pointed statement [press release] directed equally at Israel and Hezbollah and warning both combatants and their leaders, Arbour said:

“Indiscriminate shelling of cities constitutes a foreseeable and unacceptable targeting of civilians. Similarly, the bombardment of sites with alleged military significance, but resulting invariably in the killing of innocent civilians, is unjustifiable. International humanitarian law is clear on the supreme obligation to protect civilians during hostilities. This obligation is also expressed in international criminal law, which defines war crimes and crimes against humanity. International law demands accountability. The scale of the killings in the region, and their predictability, could engage the personal criminal responsibility of those involved, particularly those in a position of command and control."

But perhaps most alarming about these shocking and horrific events are that the American people are not allowed to know of these War Crimes being committed, and provides us once again with another clear example of how strong, and to what extent, the US Military Leaders campaign to militarize their citizens is succeeding, and which the World has not seen since the German Nazis efforts of last century to turn their nation into a total war society.

© July 26, 2006 EU and US all rights reserved.

[Ed. Note: The United States government actively seeks to find, and silence, any and all opinions about the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> except those coming from authorized government and/or affiliated sources, of which we are not one. No interviews are granted and very little personal information is given about our contributors to protect their safety.]