realist

Looks like you have it all wrong, to quote Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakur is approved by Srila Prabhupada:

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti, commenting on Srimad Bhagavatam 10.87.32, says that there are four types of living beings:

1. Baddha--those under the influence of the avidya potency.

2. Mukta--those liberated from the covering of avidya by bhakti, but have not yet attained a spiritual body. These are also called jivan-muktas, or liberated while living in the material body.

3. Siddha--those who have attained a spiritual body by the influence of bhakti. These are called baddha-muktas or liberated after being in bondage.

4. Nitya parsada--those who are eternally free from the association of avidya. They never become conditioned. They are also called nitya-muktas or nitya-siddhas.

He does not have a fifth category called mukta-baddha for those who were first liberated and then fell down. In all the Vedic literature no such concept is found. One can see words such as nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta, and baddha-mukta, but nothing describing something like mukta-baddha, liberated then bound.

Yes you are right but ultimately there is only Krishna the original cause of all causes and his unlimited Vishnu-tattvas plus the unlimited marginal living entities or jiva tattvas. You are correct that most living entities never choose to activate their nitya-baddha consciousness, even though that choose is always there, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti has named them correctly. The fact is there are many different names for nitya-siddhas on different levels of bodily devotion in Goloka however, under no condirtions do any living enters originate from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti. That is not possible because ALL living entities are originally nitya-siddha devotees of Krishna in Goloka or Vaikuntha..

What he has described is the different characteristic of the marginal living entity however, in all cases they are marginal, they are not Vishnu-tattva. In all cases they also have the free will to choose to reject Krishna if they desire but Srila Prabhupada explains that most NEVER reject Krishna, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti expains those with the correct terminology however from the bigger picture there are only two kinds of the marginal living entities consciousness, nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha

Srila Prabhupada – ‘This ordinary living being is of two kinds — nitya-baddha or nitya-mukta. One is eternally conditioned and the other eternally liberated. The eternally liberated living beings are in the Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world, and they never fall into the material world.’ SB 5.11.12 Purport

Then Srila Prabhupada explains we are all nitya-siidha but presently cannot see our perpetual real permanant bodily identity that always is serving Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, (NITYA-BADDHA) but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it only appears that we are eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA)’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

Srila Prabhupada “This is confirmed in all Vedic literature. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. So, as we are also persons, individual living beings, we are persons, we have got our individuality, we are all individual, similarly the Supreme Truth, the Supreme Absolute, He is also, at the ultimate issue He is a person. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features like sat, cit, and ananda, in complete vigraha Gitopanisad by Srila Prabhupada Part Two

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No Sanskrit Term For Fallen Devotees

saragrahi.org

 

Yes there is, actually ALL living entities who have chosen to be dream-avardis in the material world by forgetting Krishna and their own perpetual 'svarupa' body, are all dreaming as their nitya-baddha secondary non-Krishna Conscious self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu’ Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka established in the endless 'presents'

We all can use our freewill and fooolishly enter Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva creation, however no one originates from Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming mahat-tattva creation. We can only enter His dark cloud as our dreaming nitya-baddha lower self that is then given vessels by Maha-Vishnu to act out our mistaken desires within His mahat-tattva DREAM (material creation)

All of us living out our mundane dreams of grandur within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva, are ALL dream-avadis or sleep-avadis because we have ALL forgotten Krishna and our eternal DEVOTIONAL body we serve Krishna as.

Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia

Srila Prabhupada - “Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa (bodily form) devotional body eternally.

Srila Prabhupada -”Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency” CC Adi 5.41 pp.

 

 

No Sanskåt Term For Fallen Devotees

 

Sréla Viçvanätha Cakravarté, commenting on Çrémad Bhägavatam 10.87.32, says that there are four types of living beings:

Te ca megho pamayä avidyayä ävåtä baddha-jévä eke, anye bhakti-maj-jïänena tad-ävaraëonmuktä mukta-jéväù anye kevalayä pradhänébhütayä vä bhaktyä tadävaraëonmocita-präpita-cidänanda-maya-bhajanopayogi-çaréraù siddha-bhaktä anye avidyä-yoga-rahitä eva nitya-parñadä iti caturvidhäù.

1. Baddha--those under the influence of the avidyä potency.

2. Mukta--those liberated from the covering of avidyä by bhakti, but have not yet attained a spiritual body. These are also called jévan-muktas, or liberated while living in the material body.

3. Siddha--those who have attained a spiritual body by the influence of bhakti. These are called baddha-muktas or liberated after being in bondage.

4. Nitya pärñada--those who are eternally free from the association of avidyä. They never become conditioned. They are also called nitya-muktas or nitya-siddhas.

He does not have a fifth category called mukta-baddha for those who were first liberated and then fell down. In all the Vedic literature no such concept is found. One can see words such as nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta, and baddha-mukta, but nothing describing something like mukta-baddha, liberated then bound.

Similarly, commenting on Vedänta-Syamantaka (3), a book by his spiritual master, Çréla Baladeva Vidyäbhuñaëa divided the jévas in three classes,

1. Nitya-mukta--eternally liberated.

2. Baddha-mukta--were conditioned but became liberated.

3. Baddha--conditioned living entities.

Again there is no mention of a class called mukta-baddha or something akin to that. Kåñëadäsa Kaviräja (Cc.Madhya 22.10) and Çréla Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvaté (Vaiñëavism Real and apparent) mention only two classes, nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. If so many living entities have indeed fallen from Vaikuëöha then one would expect to read something about them and find a word or phrase describing this class of living entities in common usage. But no Vaiñëava philosopher has ever used such a word in his writing. There are no explicit statements in the Vedic literature which explain that a nitya-mukta falls. One may try to screw out such meanings from some allegorical verses such as in the story of Puraïjana or misinterpreting words like remembrance, original relationship, forgetting Kåñëa, and so forth, still the fact remains that there are no clear statements in the scriptures to support such conclusions, but there are many statements that establish another conclusion, namely that no one falls from Vaikuëöha and the conditioned souls existence is eternal, anädi, or beginningless.

We have so many statements and stories describing how a nitya-baddha become liberated, although attaining liberation is such a rare thing. On the other hand, fall down, which, if accepted, would be a very commonplace thing considering the vast number of fallen jévas in this one universe alone, yet one does not find a single historical account of such an event in the many volumes of Vedic literature. We stipulate there is only one reason why this is so--because no one falls from Vaikuëöha and as the Kåñëa says in Bhagavad-gita (13.20) material nature as well as the conditioned living entities are beginningless.

Now I can read it, remember prabhu to read Srila Prabhupadas books, lectures, letters and Srimad Bhagavatam Classes. Srila Prabhupada is the link to all past acharaya's and their teachings.

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Srila Prabhupada -“The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48

If I search for the twenty-six qualities to determine which camp presents the truth, which camp comes from Sri Krsna, then it's quite clear which conclusions are not worth considering - right or wrong.

The teachings of Srila Prabhupada and all the Vedic texts are not limited by our narrow mindedness and 21st century primitive perceptions of life both in Goloka and in our nitya-baddha dream-avardi state in the mahat-tattva.

Lets face the facts prabhuisical, most of the early pioneer devotees where like parrots who had no idea or realizations of Spiritual life or how the mahat-tattva worked through the fascilitation of Maha-Vishnu's dreams. We all just heard and repeated like parrots with very little realizations, not that there is anything wrong with that however, for ISKCON and the Gaudiya math to survive and not sink into stagnation and just become another 'church', we all must go to the next level, just like Prabhupada went to the next level when he progressed from the Gaudiya math and went to New York and then preahed Krishna Consiousness all over the World.

Sleeper-vadis - accomplished by "expert" political Iraq policy.

We are ALL nitya-baddha sleep or dream avardis in the material world Baba!! And will remain so until we re-establish our awareness of our original OLD consciousness as nitya siddha svarupa:pray:

......... as much as not noticing or not offering obeisances when Krsna is present, as in a Deity arcana form or in a silagrama-sila. But maybe we can't recognize Him; hence our callous error, our disqualification.

Go and distribute books for Prabhupada, go out on the xmas marathon, then and only then will you be able to enter the mood of Srila Prabhupadas preaching mission. What is the use of worshipng the beautiful silagrama-sila if you do not enter the preaching mood of Lord Caitanya as shown to us by Srila Prabhupada?? Its simply the latest fad and selfishness!! wakey wakey!

I risk being sacked from my 'santa' work because I put a 'Beyond Birth and Death' Book in EVERY xmas stocking, No-ones going to become introduced to Krishna Consciousness by wishful thinking, pass this on to the mad cook!!

All you nitya-baddha dream-avadis out there in the mahat-tattva and the impersonal Brahmajyoti, wakey wakey stop allowing your thoughts to keep purchasing material vessels off Maha-Vishnu who sleeps and dreams on Ananta Sesa the big gigantic transcendental snakey

Quote:

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The mahat-tattva world of the nitya-baddha dream-avardis is only attained when one chooses to mise use their free will and forget Krishna and their own perpetual nitya siddha Krishna Conscious body which is their genuine, authentic and permanent devotional bodly self.

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I can be you (bodily vessel) you can be me (bodily vessels) and we can all be each other (Only the bodily material containments of ethereal and biological nature (vessels)

The mahat-tattva world of the nitya-baddha dream-avardis is only attained when one chooses to mise use their free will and forget Krishna and their own perpetual nitya siddha Krishna Conscious body which is their genuine, authentic and permanent devotional bodly self.

You really shouldn't reveal such stupidity in front of everybody.

Sounds like a typical brainwashed, blind follower of the cult.

There all right mate, at least they chant Hare Krishna and are in our line of Gaudiya devotional succession.

Any way,we all have to work for a living, I just happen to be santa clause. I will tell you something funny. A Mataji came to Myer (just happens to be Australia's biggest department store) with her kids, a young six year old sat on my lap and told me what he wanted (the latest transformer movie) I asked him, wouldn't you rather have a story about Krishna, then chanted the first three verses of the Brahma samhita in his ear. The young boy ran back to mum saying 'santa' is a devotee, he chanted to me and told me to get a movie about Krishna when he was the boy'.

Maybe next time around you can have my body and I can have your body and then we will know how our nitya-baddha consciousnesses felt confined to those vessels or rather dreamed in the material world of the dream-avardis:sleep: (the nitya-baddha's)

Your all dreamavardis’ and you don't even know it

What a pompous ass.

Nobody but you believes in that hogwash philosophy that you manufacture and spit at all the devotees of this forum.

 

I guess when nobody wants to play your sleepervadi rant game anymore you just turn to ad-hominem insults to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy in your self-rightous, pompous arrogance.

Your so innocent and sweet Wakey wakey prabhusical!!, Your in a dream world and don't even know it, maybe next time around you can have my body and I can have your body and then we will know how our nitya-baddha consciousnesses felt confined to those vessels or rather dreamed in the material world of the dream-avardis:sleep: (the nitya-baddha's)

well about Prabhupada's god brothers, I respect them, but I don't worship them simply beecause I don't read their books or know them, no one can force you to do that. It took me years to realize that Srila Prabhupada was a bonafide guru and instead of following someone else I just follow him... I found my guru. Also Srila Prabhupad said that no one of his godbrothers were qualified to be an acarya, so I will not take the risk.

That is the conclusion of all ISKCON devotees. Respect them because their end result is to go back home back to Godhead and serve Krishna. Yesterday I chanted in a street kirtan with Narayana Maharaj disciples and it was ecstatic, they had no idea who I was, I just finished my job as a santa clause and danced with them in my santa costume for an hour.

I Just want to clean this up. The nitya-baddha consciousness is the secondary non-Krishna conscious asoect of ALL marginal living entity. After many births and deaths in the material world, he may attempt to give up the desire for sense gratification. After being on the path of yogic disciplines, eventually after many many more life times, the embodied yogi, which is contained in an ethereal bodyconfined as their nitya-baddha lower conscious self is an secondary or inferior aspect of ones marginal identity,

Only a fool without any understanding of spiritual life wouldn’t understand this.

It’s simple to understand. EVERYONE'S nitya-siddha body is permanently established in the 'endless' present in Goloka. However,for those few who have been covered by their nitya-baddha restricted conscious, or non-Krishna conscious desires, thoughts and DREAMS, THEY ROAM AROUND THE MATERIAL CREATION confined to material ethereal and biological vessels for so long, it seems like an eternity.

Sometimes in the ethereal or subtle body of a demigod, a biological human form, a biological dog form, a sahu form, a yogi form, a ghost form even no form dreaming a dreamless state in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.

And if you duds stay long enough in the mahat-tattva, you will see its demise and be around for the next mahat-tattva cycle of stage plays where Begger can hire the bodily vessel of Guruvani and Kulapavana can hire or experience the bodily vehicle of Shakti fan.

Hey boys, don't get to attached to those material bodies you are in, they ARE a permanent fixtures of the maha-tattva (material creation) meaning they are destroyed yet again reappear in the next cycle of MAHA-TATTVA CREATION (the dreams of Maha-Vishnu).

Maybe you guys can one day, in another time place, circumstance, universe and material creation experience the ethereal and bioliogical vessel of REALISTS Wakey Wakey

You guys are so spiritual Juvenal in your PRIMITIVE understanding. Can you handle the truth of what is really going on in the material crazy DREAM-vardi world? Sridar Maharaj is/was a great Vaishnava respected by Srila Prabhupada however, his deep understanding of the shastra was nowhere near as advanced as Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada new the essences of the Vedas and that was preaching in every town and Village of the world. I’m not being offensive or critical here, it’s just a fact

"In this present day, man is very eager to have one scripture, one God, one religion, and one occupation. So let there be one common scripture for the whole world--Bhagavad-gita. And let there be one God only for the whole world--Sri Krsna. And one mantra only--Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. And let there be one work only--the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead" .Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it is

This thread is filled with negative vibrations.It`s about to explode. 10.9.8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1...Boooommm!!!

Hatred paralyzes life; Krishna Consciousness releases it. Hatred confuses life; Krishna Consciousness harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; Krishna Consciosness illuminates it

Let no man pull you low enough to hate him.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

I submit to you that if a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live.

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of helping others become Krishna Conscious.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only the light of Krishna Comsciousness can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only loving selfless devotion to Krishna can do that.

Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of Krishna Consciousness, or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

ISKCON's History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this pioneering period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad devotees, but the appalling silence of the good devotees.

If only Sridha Maharaj never said we came from a plain sheet of consciousness from the Brahmajyoti ?? Anyway what part of the states are you from or are you from somewhere else. At least we have one thing in common - We love the Srimad Bhagavatam

Good points you have made, thank you for your undertanding

You know realist their are many on this board who view Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and even their disciples as their own gurus both diksa and siksa and it is really offensive of you to come in the midst of them are stones towards their teachers. It even offends me who has no particular allegiance to any one teacher. I see it simply as offending friends of God. You are not fooling anyone here into believing you are a "100% Prabhupada Man" by criticizing his Godbrothers. We here have all seen through that thin smokescreen of long long ago. You want to be a Prabhupada man. Then love Krsna. Serve Krsna. Give Krsna to others.

Let us see if you can inspire as many as Sridhar Maharaja has done.

Srila Prabhupada is all I know; he has saved me from immanent death and HELL (real hell is to forget Prabhupada and Krishna). And being his disciple DOES make me a Prabhupada man, YOU and no one else can EVER take that way from me, YOU and others can ridicule me and find all the faults in me you like because there are plenty of them, this body has committed just about EVERY sinful activity you can think of. My post I stand by and make absolutely NO apologies for. What you call offensive I call truthful and honesty. The fact is, Srila Prabhupada WAS not happy with the way he was treated by his Godbrothers, why should I say anything different just to be the nice guy and suck up to everyone? Hare Krishna

One must command respect by their humility, honesty and dedication to solely Srila Prabhupada.

Those who demand respect with external imitation and show do not deserve respect no matter whose disciple they are.

Remember, Srila Prabhupada was very critical of his Godbrothers because they never understood the preaching instructions of Lord Caitanya..

The method of understanding shastra is Guru, Sadhu and Shastra. Spiritual life is not a democracy where 10 or 11 give their presentation on Spiritual scripture and that vote makes right, no, it is NOT like that at all. I heard one lecture in MELBOURNE by a sanyasi GBC (Ramai Swami) that suggested we not only see what Srila Prabhupada says, but also see IF other Vaishnava’s agree with Srila Prabhupada. That’s the arrogant impression this sanyasi's lecture gave.

The fact is, ISKCONS understanding of ALL previous Acharays is ONLY found through and strickly based on the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, AND NO ONE ELSE.

More than 10 or 11 of his Godbrothers did not agree with him, especially on the origin of the jiva soul coming down from Goloka. ISKCON (Srila Prabhupada) certainly will never accept Sridhar Maharaja’s teachings we originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti.

ISKCON is the teachings of Srila Prabhupada found in his BOOKS, MORNING WALKS AND LECTURES. If ISKCON becomes polluted by the 'outside' influences and beliefs of the Gaudiya math, then it will become arrogant and stagnated like the Gaudiya math.

Srila Prabhupada has said everything we need to know HE has given us EVERYTHING!

Shiva says - 'That is not quite right. A metaphor doesn’t imply that something is not real, it implies that something, like an idea or word or conception, is representing or designating another. If the conception of Maha Vishnu dreaming is not a metaphor then it is literal. In fact it cannot be literal because Maha Vishnu is a swamsa or plenary expansion of Krsna i.e. Maha Vishnu is Krsna'.

 

It is a fact that Maha-Vishnu is laying down dreaming and His DREAM IS THE MATERIAL CREATION OR MAHAT-TATTVA

 

“This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:

 

Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga

Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah

 

This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.”Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

 

This description of the material dreaming characteristic of our marginal (nitya-baddha identity) has been a controversial subject for so long however, Shiva must understand that the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and the dreams of the marginal living entity, that takes residence within Maha-Vishnu’s material dreaming creation, are certainly not on the same 'mental' state' of illusionary dreams that we all have in our present material biological bodies.

 

No, it is not like that interpretation of the word dream.

 

Maha-Vishnu is sleeping and dreaming and our bodily vessels and their surroundings are all part and parcel of His mahat-tattva dream

"The modes of nature divide the soul's consciousness into normal wakefulness, dreaming and dreamless sleep. All such varieties of perception, however, are actually Maya and exist only like a dream". Text 34 Purport Canto 11

 

Srila Prabhuapada calls non-Krishna Conscious thoughts, dreams and says we are ‘thinking’ or ‘dreaming’ that we are separated from Krishna but actually there is simply a cloud covering our vision of seeing Krishna and who we really are.

 

What does this mean

 

The secondary nitya-baddha 'dreaming' conscious state of the jiva-tatastha, is an authentic and real condition that ALL living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will and ignore Krishna and their authentic 'svarupa' body they serve Krishna as. The permanent bodily Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha feature of the marginal living entity is the bona fide permanent spiritual identity that ALL marginal living entities are endowed with.

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there”.

Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.

We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka

 

Srila Prabhupada also uses the analogy of the cloud covering the sun, its not that the sun is not there, but rather is that we cannot see the sun similarly, the nitya-baddha consciousness is like the cloud and the only when that cloud (nitya-baddha consciousness) dissipates, can we see the sun or our true perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha bodily identity.

 

The problem with the dream analogy is many foolishly relate this dream state with the biological body of nine gates. This is due to not understanding what the 'dream' means in this context in relation to maha-Vishnu. The DREAMING CONCEPT simply means we have ALL come down from Goloka and our consciousness has become covered like a cloud covers the sun, or like dust covers the mirror or like smoke covers the fire - dreaming simply means being covered to the point you cannot see who you really are, just like in the dark, one cannot see themselves and those around them due to the absents of light, therefore, presently a blanket of 'darkness' covers the marginal living entity in the material world, that 'blanket of darness' is called the nitya-baddha consciousness. The uncovered state is ones real eternal DEVOTIONALLY ACTIVE BODILY identity called the nitya-siddha genuin self that perpetually resides in Krishna's eternal pastimes in Goloka.

 

The marginal living entity therefore can choose to use their 'marginal' freewill and venture as the non-Krishna Conscious covered nitya-baddha characteristic (the covered state) of their marginal identity to the mahat-tattva 'dreaming' creation of Maha-Vishnu. The nitya-baddha consciousness therefore is an existent living part and parcel of ones own marginal potency or individual identity that is a secondary feature of the individual living entity that’s restricted view simply manifests due to ones REAL authentic nitya-siddha bodily identity being covered like the cloud blocks out the sun or like ones dreams at night makes one forget their present body.

In this way the mahat-tattva DREAM is real, however it is also temporary due to its fading scenery of past, prsent and future and that is why it is called illusion, that which is not - Maya.

 

Each living entity has their ceaseless nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily identity in Goloka or Vaikuntha and also has the ability, due to the freedom to choose, to arouse their non-Krishna conscious desire, thoughts and imaginings that ARE like a dark cloud that covers ones perpetual ‘svarupa’ identity. This ‘lower self or secondary consciousness’ blocks out ones awareness, service and vision of real permanent self and is known as ones nitya-baddha COVERED consciousness, a state of restricted perception that all marginal living entities can trigger (be covered by) if they no longer want to stay with Krishna in Goloka..

 

In this way this attribute within the mahat-tattva or material creation and the impersonal Brahmajyoti, ones jiva-soul identity is 10,000th the size of a tip of hair IN OUR dimension of awareness within the maha-tattva, AND can also move on to a dreamless dormant state within the impersonal trait of the Brahmajyoti that can only also exist outside the personal active realm of Goloka and Vaikuntha.

 

The Impersonal feature of Brahman or the Brahmajyoti cannot exist as independent effulgence because factually that effulgence IS the marginal living entities secondary nitya-baddha consciousness in an inactive dormant dreamless state.

 

Srila Prabhupada says that only those who DO NOT 'DREAM' of selfish independance in the material world with their mistaken desires, thoughts, aspirations and imaginations of grandur, are in always Goloka in their original bodily constitutional position and Never FALL DOWN OR COME DOWN to the material creation. They have chosen to NEVER dreamin of the material world. This means prsently we are caught up in a dream we think is real but in comparison to the eternal 'presents' in Goloka, it is only real for a short time, then fades away to the point that it never was, hence the meaning of Maya, that which is not.

 

THIS IS WHAT THE WORD DREAM MEANS IN THIS ABSOLUE CONTEXT. The dream we are presently having in the material creation or mahat-tattva, that IS our material body and mind and its surroundings, is an illusion (that is real but temporary) created by Maha-Vishnu; hence dream means illusion in the material world, something that fades away to the point that it will seem that it never really existed. Real existence is permanent and never fades away. Therefore the material 'dream' existence is real, but only temporarily real. Eventually your material body and mine will be as if it never was, as if it never even existed in the first place.

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. That is the secret understanding in all Vedic literature" Text 1b:Canto 4 Purport Srimad Bhagavatam

 

Srila Prabhupada - "One is actually dreaming due to incomplete knowledge, just as one may dream that one has wakened from a dream". Canto 11 Text 30 Purport

 

Srila Prabhupada - "As an object of enjoyment or a permanent residence for the conditioned souls, the material universe is certainly illusion, nothing more than a dream. One may give the analogy that the vision of abundant water in a desert is no more than a dream, although real water exists elsewhere. Similarly, the vision of home, happiness and reality within matter is certainly no better than a foolish dream in which repeated miseries appear.

 

In another sense, however, the universe is real. In his commentary on Vedanta-sūtra, Śrīla Madhvācārya has confirmed this by quoting the following statement from the Vedic śruti-mantras: satyam hy evedam viśvam asrjata. "This universe, created by the Lord, is real." The perfect authority of the Vedas thus certifies this universe to be real; nevertheless, because our knowledge is stolen by illusion (as indicated here by the words asta-dhisanam), we cannot properly understand this universe or the Supreme Lord who has created it. As the expansion of Lord Krishna, the universe is real and is meant for being engaged in His service. One who accepts the kingdom of God as home, the Lord Himself as the object of love, and the material universe as paraphernalia for being engaged in the Lord's service dwells within eternal reality wherever he may go within the material and spiritual worlds".Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.14.22 Purport

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Such a complex topic which even Babaji avoids answering directly, yet we will risk all for our fancy in ridiculing our good brothers. This is not the cleverness of a wise man; such humility will not fall at Krsna's lotus feet.

Remember, serve and tell everyone you meet about Krishna and never forget Him.

We cannot expect a dog or cat to understand because they do not have the appropriate biological vessel that can inquire into universal creation. Faith must begin somewhere. It is a fact; only faith can reveal the real truth.

In other words, if we are completely sincere we cannot be cheated. Who amongst us is ready to understand the secrets of the universe? Where does the faith come from? We all have faith, for example, when you get on a plane you have faith that the pilot can fly the plane or the doctor can perform the operation in a Hospital.

Faith is there in everything. If you want to learn how to drive a car, you have faith that the instructor can show you and guide you to be a good driver. In the some way, if your faith is sincere, you will search out a teacher or guide who can nurture your Spiritual faith, encourage you to continue seeking the Devotional Krishna Conscious truth – to become totally selfless and dependant on Krishna. This is not easy.

As it is said, the path to self-realization is rough and narrow and covered with stumbling blocks to test your faith. Its true what great devotees say, the truth can be right there in front of you, but without faith you will not see it, you will only see what you want to see.

Our search for God or the absolute truth (Krishna) is difficult, we are all so extremely attached to the biological body we are in and we may feel threatened, if not prepared by faith in God or Krishna. Such faith comes from association.

We live in a society today; I believe is collectively ready to research for the real final frontier – Krishna Consciousness. We are all already lost in material space, within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu living out our mundane dreams on a small planet in a vast universe, which in its self is a pretty amazing characteristic of our existence - however it's just a dream emanating from who one really is, long, long ago elapsed due to forgetfulness of Krishna.

We made that choice, it is our doing, we wanted to branch out on our own and attempt to be the Lord and master of all we purvey

Ultimately the goal is love of Krishna, or more accurately re-establishing our old Krishna consciousness we had long before we projected our desires and dreams into the illusionary material universe. The fact is, no amount of accumulation of Knowledge will reveal Krishna to us. Only through faith and loving selfless service can we realize our original relationship with God or Krishna.

You may get 100% out of 100% in your written exam for your driver’s license. But without the faith in you instructor in the practical test, you will not know how to drive correctly, similarly it will not give anyone love of Krishna because only through faith and selfless commitment and service to ones Spiritual Master can that be attained.

In this way, we must seek out an instructor, a living Spiritual Master if we want to expand on our faith. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada was such a genuine Spiritual guide to many and now there are those living Spiritual Masters (disciples) who continue his legacy.. Srila Prabhupada’s also says you cannot become a medical practitioner by simply reading books; you must study under a medical practitioner, or his representative.

Srila Prabhupada makes it very clear, you have to associate with one who knows and lives scripture; only he can knows Krishna can give Krishna. He makes it clear, if you cannot understand; you have to take lesson from one who is devotee, if not from Srila Prabhupada, then by one who knows Srila Prabhupada books.

He left us his books as the guiding light to Krishna consciousness however; this must go side by side with those who follow the teachings of those books and who strictly chants the Hare Krishna Mantra at least 16 rounds a day.

Those who have understood Srila Prabhupada’s books and live and breath those books, they are qualified to guide us and help us understand how to find our way back home back to Godhead. This was the principle instructions in all the ISKCON Temples he established, He could not be personally present all the time but his books are always there.

Prabhupada explains further, “Simply one who knows the subject matter, he can explain.”

Through Srila Prabhupada’s books one CAN gain access to the Absolute however, one must associate with devotees who are not lazy sitting back in comfort in their Temple satisfied only with a few followers and Sunday guests, but always seek out the humble preachers who are devoid of arrogance, pride, being idle with the longing to be worshiped and served. No it is those who are selfless humble Sanyasy’s and Gurus servants who are the sincere genuine followers and teachers of Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON society.

Srila Prabhupada’s books direct the sincere enquirer of the Truth to a devotee of Krishna, from there the aspiring devotee can learn further about Him by submitting to and listen with an open mind to the Transcendental Sounds of scripture, chanting, Sankirtan, offering food to the deities.

The transcendental words of Srila Prabhupada is an extended manifestation of his pure consciousness and no different than him.

Those who want to understand the contents of Srila Prabhupada’s books must not loose goal of that knowledge, as the story of the scholar and the street sweeper reveal.

As it is said, the path to self-realization is rough and narrow and covered with stumbling blocks to test your faith. It’s true what many devotees say, the truth can/is (be) right there in front of you, but without faith in your Spiritual Master you will not see it, you will only see what you want to see.

Attachment to only Knowledge and rituals keeps ones consciousness stagnant, cold and bitter. One becomes attached to the accumulation of Knowledge and rituals that rivet’s one to their ‘imagination of what spiritual life is’ and therefore cannot see Krishna even if he was standing right their in front of them. This is because we are not attached to selfless, humble devotion to Krishna, but rather more attached to our concocted regimented imature VERSION of "surrender prabhoooo" to Krishna – there is a fine line between the real and the imaginary (imitators).

Unfortunately they are bound to be self-deceived and deceive others. Instead of serving Krishna and his devotees, many follow their own mental concoction of Krishna Consciousness; they do not realize they are dreaming-up a separated and perverted imaginary ‘Krishna and the Kingdom of God’ that they have manufactured by their own understandings and speculations about scripture that is only a sentimental perverted dream and part of the material illusion, part of their own mental attachments, part of their own dream.

It is difficult to wake up in our real selfless perpetual nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious selfless body by allowing the layers upon layers of our biological and ethereal material bodily vessels of selfish thoughts, desires and imaginings (nitya-baddha consciousness) to be shed.

In this way, if the so called devotee is just attached to imitating Srila Prahupada and accumulating knowledge and performing of rituals, like the present fad of worshiping Shaligram shilas like one devotee does ALL day that is very inspiring and devotional however, WITHOUT PREACHING AND DISTIBUTING BOOKS, then what is the use of such SELFISH worship.

Unfortunatly many who simply imitate a devotee or foolishly act out being a devotee on the level of a mundane profession for a wage only, will foolishly carry theirs errors,(still thinking they are their mundane fading material bodily identity), arrogance and puffed-up pride into the realm of ‘their’ version of Absolute Truth like many (not all) in the present day Gaudiya math did after the disappearance of. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.

Along these lines they marched on for decades lay back on their laurals satisfied with their few disciples and followers living out their entire life (wasting it) with so much knowledge of Krishna they could of shared with millions upon millions of others,(like Srila Prabhupada did) instead they wasted their life with their self-indulgent self-importance egotistical show of studying the scriptures.

Jnan (accumulation of Knowledge) will not give anyone love of Krishna because only through faith, selflessness, devotion and complete unconditional attachment and commitment, association of devotee’s and love (surrender) for one’s Spiritual Master and Krishna can that be attained.

Technically there is only one Spiritual Sky. one Brahman or Brahmajyoti and that is Goloka-Vrindavan and the surronding Vaikuntha planets. Lord Krishna and Lord Caitanya’s Personal intimate central planet is Goloka-Vrndavana and the surrounding planets is where are Vishnu planets of servitude. They are the only real (permanent) realities in the creation that is indisputable genuine and not an imaginary replication, fairytale or dream like the material universe and the Impersonal Brahmajoyti that only appear rarely within that same Spiritual Sky.

Ones eyes must be smeared with selfless love to Krishna; this is the only way to regain one’s ‘old’ original consciousness. This is difficult and there is the danger of writing like this and becoming attached to the accumulation of Knowledge and missing the point all together, which is developing genuin love and devotion for God (Krishna) and selflessly serving His genuine devotee’s and telling EVERYONE you meet about Krishna.

Great picture. Sri Bhismadeva is saying, "Remember me. Engage me in Your Bhaktiyoga". Krsna replies, "Only you."

 

thanks for reality, realist. harekrsna, ys, mahaksadasa