realist
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Posts posted by realist
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He is head of the GBC, does anyone know anything about him??
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I suspect that Vedas present the Universe as it seen by the yogis, with various layers of reality (worlds or "dimensions") overlapping one another. In some places it is even mentioned that in the past yogis were able to walk to the moon in their current bodies, on the mystical trail known as Sushumna. In other places it is said that all we can see in the sky is just our own earthly realm - we do not see the higher or lower worlds at all, just their shadows cast into our reality. Like a reflection of the moon in a lake, only 3 dimensional.Interesting reading in understanding Krsna's material creation
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Ok. How did he get the shirt on over his arms?good point, it makes you think it maybe a hoax
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http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qLAh7P43_uo
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(27) At that time giving up this world he indeed saw at his side lamenting like his own son the deer his mind was absorbed in; with his body dying with the deer, he thereafter got the body of a deer, but unlike with other births, was the remembrance of what had happened before at his death not destroyed
(30) Furthermore, anyone also who in his life but by false pride proved himself degraded before a more honorable one of good birth, austerity, knowledge, good behavior and loyalty to the principles, not showing much of respect, is a dead man alive who after dying head down is thrown into the hell of Ksarakardama [the 'pool of acrid mud'] to suffer indeed the most painful conditions.
NOTE = its not fake...Google it. This guy has HPV (human papiloma virus), the same virus that causes cervical cancer in women, and genital warts. The warts grew out of control because he has a genetic incapability to keep the warts from growing. He is now receiving treatment.
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I can't stand mayavadi photos
Where are the devotees of Krishna??
Theist, Beggar, Jahnava Nitai Das, Sucandra, CCC, tackleberry, Svarupa, indulekhadasi, Bhakta Harry, Shakti fan, Kulapavana, Sarva gattah , Rishi_L, gHari etc
where are you all?
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Srila Prabhupada - "I don't like that idea. Some Hindus are supporting. I don't want a Hindu temple. Our constitution is different. We want everyone, Krsna consciousness is for everyone. It is not a Hindu propaganda. People may not misunderstand. And actually, till now in our society there is not a single other Hindu than me. (laughter) Is that not?" Meeting with Devotees - June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban"
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PranamI detect a serious Hindu phobia, now you want to blame Hindus for Iskcon failures, just go ahead, we can take it, after all we withstood worse form of atrocities and abuse then you can ever imagine in keeping the Dharma intact.
What’s wrong with holi I wonder, a past time of Prahlad Maharaj his triumph over Holica.
Your statement is nothing sort of racial abuse, you prefer your temples to be filled by white faces, it pains you to see Indians at the temples, why don’t you put a sign up saying no Indians, problem solved.
Jai Shree Krishna
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And back at their cosy secluded Temple in Danks Street Melbourne THEY think they are spreading Krishna consciousness - to whom? The Hindus who come and help serve out the feast to their fellow Hindus?
Not that there is anything wrong with that however, it is the Australian public the Melbourne ISKCON Temple should be reaching also, THIS IS WHY PRABHUPADA CAME TO THE WEST.
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Ganeshprasad I am not criticising Hindus, in fact it's a very good thing they attend the Temple, even though many want material blessings they are used to praying for back in India.
The purpose of ISKCON is not to just covert the converted (the Hindus ONLY) but to covert the Aussi's and bring in thousands of Australians of all religions , colours and creeds to Lord Caitanya's Movement. Krishna is the creator and maintainer of everyone, not just Indians or Hindus.
THIS IS WHY SRILA PRABHUPADA CAME TO THE WEST.
As far as Holi is concerned, Srila Prabhupada, did not introduce Holi, bringing in such festivals waters down what Srila Prabhupada gave us. It does not represent what HE gave us. It changes HIS mission. If Srila Prabhupada considered this important, HE would have done so. Purity (to what Prabhupada set up and gave us) is the Force.
Srila Prabhupad told the GBC - just Maintain what he had given us. If they could have just done this, ISKCON would still be Vaikuntha. Unfortunately for many older Prabhupada disciples, it has become too much Hinduized.... Hindus are our great friends, but, we don't need to become one with them.
Or as explained by Akruranatha prabhu -
"It is interesting to read that traditionally in India the brahmacaris, sannyasis, and widows do not play with Holi colors. That might explain why most of my experiences in ISKCON have been that devotees are not very enthusiastic about it. When I have been in India during Holi mostly people warn me to stay indoors or at least to avoid wearing expensive clothes out on the street.
But it always seemed like such a joyous holiday, and connected as it is to Prahlad Maharaja and also Krishna’s pastimes, I wondered why we were always so cool about it, not spreading dyes on each other. It may be that we are more renunciation-oriented and as Mother Gandhari points out, it is more of a householder, sense-enjoyment affirming festival".
Hare Krsna
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I found your post very hard to follow, are you from India?
It is very nice to write however, type out you spiel in Word first, correct the spelling and punctuation mistakes, then copy and move to Notepad, then copy again and paste in the thread you want to comment on.
Hari Bol
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IMO the initial rapid expansion of ISKCON was not sustainable because the movement was not training it's members properly, there was no sustainable and accountable management structure or economic basis, and the movement was making promises to it's members which were overly optimistic to the maximum.It was a pyramid scheme that went bust on unfulfilled promises and on greed and incompetency of it's leaders. Thos who want to go back to the way it was are just daydreamers who do not understand what really happened. There were tons of similar "flash in the pan" religious movements in the past.
The calls to do more preaching are nice but what kind of preaching should it be? More bogus claims and more empty promises like before? Hardly... we must go back to the essence of our tradition and to the core teachings of our sampradaya. This is no longer the 1960's and 70's - the old approach does not work and the empty temples are a proof of that.
Finally there is something we can agree on, we may disagree on some philosophical points but ultimately it does not matter how we got here, we somehow must learn what are the real qualifications of a genuine devotee of Krsna is and what a real humble selfless non judgemental Vaishnava really is.
A real Vaishnava first sees EVEYONE is a devotee and does not try to make this material world his home or think that he, she and others are the material bodies they are in.
Melbourne Temple is a joke because most cannot understand they are not their material bodies, it like visiting a Hindu Temple where such Hindus are no different than Christians, who are at church for the social side of religion, for material blessings and pray for their daily bread for personal selfish gain. ISKCON is not meant for becoming another Hindu Temple so the Hindu's can have their Holi celebrations, what's next, India's independence day?
This is why ISKCON is stagnant and never grows, of course except for the majority of Hindu students who go there who have recently over flooded Australia and especially Melbourne whom I also talk to everyday and send to the Temple.
As far as the devotees being converted from the white or European Australians are concerned, it has been stagnated and isolated for Years, the libraries are empty of Prabhupada's books, you never see Prabhupada’s books in Book Shops, most of the householder devotees look like Karmis because they never wear devotional clothing outside the Temple. Go to the suburbs of any Australian city, hardly anyone has heard of or see the Hare Krishnas anymore.
The householders are too busy watching ‘Desperate house wife’s’ and the ‘Footy Show on TV’ or the VFL or NRL game of the day on TV. And they call themselves Vaishnava’s, they can't even understand they are not the material bodies they occupy, so how can they understand all the bodily vessels they see, is containing a soul forgetful of Krsna?
And back at their cosy secluded Temple in Danks Street Melbourne THEY think they are spreading Krishna consciousness - to whom? The Hindus who came and help serve out the feast to their fellow Hindus? Not that there is anything wrong with that however, it is the Australian public the Melbourne ISKCON Temple should be reaching also, THIS IS WHY PRABHUPADA CAME TO THE WEST.
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Actually being Vaishnava is not cheap, we are all aspiring Vaishnavas, a real selfless inspiring Vaishnava is very, very rare because he sees the full potential of all living entities as being devotees of Krishna, he or she sees beyond the bodily identity of race, color or condition of all others.This is the point I am making, does one see the material body or the soul? The devotee within? – Only a real Vaishnava can understand this and see the real truth and know how to treat all others.
It All Depends on YOU
The preaching of the Gaudiya Math during Srila Bhaktisidhhanta’s life was so powerful that the most famous and prominent religious movement in Bengal at that time gradually lost its popularity. The Gaudiya Math publicly exposed the leader of this movement (he claimed to be an incarnation of Rama and Krsna) and proved that his teachings deviated from the conclusions of the Vedas.
However, shortly after the demise of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, that very same religious movement began gaining popularity and again became an influential force, misleading millions of people. Prabhupada said their success was the fault of the Gaudiya Matha.
Why?
Because after the departure of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta the preaching work of the Gaudiya Matha slackened.
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The Melbourne Temple Aussi experienceQuote -"Some of the devotees had never even heard of Dandavat.com or Audarya Fellowship. I wasn't at all surprised as this is the norm for Melbourne Temple as nothing really changes
I then left the sanctuary and isolation of ISKCON Melbourne, realizing such isolation is a definitely necessary part of indoctrinating training for all young and new devotees to be strong devotees".
Or is it healthy?
Comment - Gurukulis and many ordinary struggling devotees in the past, were patronized, used and exploited so much while growing up in ISKCON, they only found that they couldn’t leave, even if they wanted to.
They where like caged birds being let out of captivity only to find that they could not survive without the cage, without ISKCON. Ha ha ha ha ha - I can hear ISKCON Hardliners and fools laughing at this but they do not understand the HEAVY repercussions?? Which only means nothing has changed, they're always up to there old tricks of somehow manipulating others.
Many devotees could never adjust to the world around them - I would never ever send anyone to join Melbourne Temple because of this predicament that often comes with such isolation imposed by arrogent, judgemental, self rightious 'so called' leaders, sanyasis, guru's and immature uneducated adjudicatory Temple devotees, as ISKCON's coloured history proves.
However I would and still do sent people, mostly the hindu's and Siks I met, to the Temple to see Prabhupada and the beautiful Dieties and take Prasad, but always warn them to be careful.
Quote - "In the past and even now more so than one thinks, many are used and exploited emotionally and psychologically in clever ways by others in leadership instead of nurturing them to be confident individual with strong self esteem and faith in Krishna.
As the Youtube clip states, "by keeping people hopeless and pessimistic, you control them, first of all frighten people, then demoralize them"
Lets face the facts, many ISKCON leaders still use these PUT DOWN tactics today to break the spirits of others and make them feel useless so they can control them under the disguise of 'making others humble' or 'surrender Prabhu'".
It is this kind of self righteous nonsense they attempt to impose on others in the name of Krishna Consciousness, in the name of Prabhupada’s ISKCON Movement, only keeps the movement stagnated"
Comment - Go to Dandavats live cam and also see Brisbane Temple live, out of a city of 2 million people, the Dandavats Cam reveals no more than 5 devotee chanting in the Temple room at one time in the morning".
ANYWAY I would never tolerate such patronising attitudes with what I know now. I would militantly cleverly fight strongly against such impersonalism because there is NO room for such arrogant tactics that guru’s, sannyasis, temple authorities and their ‘yes’ followers, still use today.
The future of ISKCON's REAL development into a bonafide genuine world religion for the purpose of guiding others Back Home, Back to Godhead, is based on simply being Krsna Conscious and understanding that EVERYONE is originally Krsna's dear devotee - something the immature personal at Melbourne Temple have not learnt and still are a long, long way of understanding.
Below is the real ISKCON MENTALITY
Let me share a thought that has always inspired me. I know that right now there are people somewhere whose lives I can touch by making a little personal sacrifice, by going out of my way to do something to further the mission of Krsna consciousness.I may not know who those people are and I might never meet them; and I can’t always say how my efforts to spread Krsna consciousness will directly influence them. But I do know that doing nothing isn’t helping anyone.
There are people all over the world who want Krsna conscious. The reality is that the choices you and I make in our daily lives will determine whether some of them will get it or not.
* If we care about others we will take care of our own spiritual lives. Lord Caitanya said make your life successful and then make other’s lives successful. Physician, heal thyself. Devotees have often overextended themselves in the name of preaching and either eventually burned out or fell down as a result. Dead men don’t make good soldiers.
Exercise
The exercise was actually given above, but I will restate it again.
Ask yourself “What more can I do to make the world more Krsna conscious? How can all the fallen souls be saved?”
And never stop asking this question.
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By Kiran Das
The centuries old Vaisnava Dance Tradition of Sri Jagannath Puri
Gotipua, the Oriya etymon of which literally means ‘Goti’ = ‘single’ & ‘Pua’ = ‘Boy’. As the name indicates this sacred dance is performed only by boys dressed up as girls.
The amazing history of this dance dates up to the time of Sriman Gauranga Mahaprabhu.
Since many centuries as a customary practice in the Chandan Yatra festival of Puri, the Supreme Lord Sri Jagannath would always go out on procession along with His supreme devotee Lord Shiva in between the assembly of demigods. And at that time, as a tradition, the Devadasis of the Sri Mandir would also come to dance before Lord Jagannath for His pleasure.
When Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (who was Lord Jagannath himself assuming the form of His devotee) saw this, He desired them (the Devadasis) to dance in front of Lord Shiva as well, during the entire occasion, but unfortunately the priests objected to it.
They objected because the Devadasis were females and by nature they could not maintain purity continually for a period of 21 days, especially since Lord Shiva was among those demigods.
Hence Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as an alternative advised the King of Puri to bring in small boys for the purpose. He said — let the boys dance instead of girls, since boys were pure in all respects.
That was when, for the first time, the King of Puri ordered his subjects to set up gymnasiums for training Gotipuas (or small dancing boys).
Normally the Gotipuas dress up them selves as girls to sing and dance in the rhythm of ancient classical vaisnava music meant for the pleasure of the Supreme Lord Jagannath. Their songs depict various stories from the great historical puranas as well as the Rasa leela pastimes of the Lord with the Gopis in Vrindavan.
This dance form historically represents the magnificence of the most glorious vaisnava culture of Orissa.
It was flourishing strongly during the medieval period and had spread as a great part of the rich temple culture of Puri. They were earlier sponsored by the feudal land lords in the remote rural areas of Orissa, but slowly later after the decline of feudalism, the temples, monasteries, gymnasiums and feudal zamindars could no longer sponsor this tradition anymore.
The tradition was almost dead during the last century. But now providentially it has once again been revived and is slowly regaining its forgotten vitality for the pleasure and services of the Supreme Lord Jagannath.
Baba Gorekhnath Gotipua Dance association is now making an attempt to revive this lost dance tradition of Jagannath Puri. The dance has similarities with Odissi (In fact, it is the original dance form from where today’s Odissi had originated) performed by male Children dressed up as beautiful girls.
These children are acrobats. And the (Bandha Nrtya) acrobatic dance is its greatest attraction.
It’s worth watching………a wonderful classical entertainment for all.
You can watch the video Documentary below:
21 min - 28/03/2008
Baba Gorekhnath Gotipua Dance Association, Orissa, India. A cultural wing introduced by Sri Chaitanya Dandabhanga Leelakunj Ashram. ISKCON’s Dandabhanga Development Project, Chandanpur,
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=596213520464277403
Watch video here 
Hide video - Related videos<EMBED id=VideoPlayback style="WIDTH: 600px; HEIGHT: 520px" src="" type=application/x-shockwave-flash flashvars="" googleplayer.swf?docId="596213520464277403&hl=en" video.google.com http:> </EMBED>
This group is ready to come and perform abroad during festive occasions.
For more information, please contact
Baba Ghoreknath Gotipua dance association’
Orissa.
Kiran Das (Managing Director): Mob.Ph.No: +91 9937524954,
+91 9937312189
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Hare Krishna murder probe in South Africa
1 April 2008 Kwazulu-Natal police will go to Gauteng this week in a bid to retrace the steps of a single Hare Krishna devotee whose body was found in Durban last week.
Sherita Debipursad, 38, arrived by bus in Durban from Pretoria last Wednesday to attend the Hare Krishna Ratha Yathra Festival of Chariots and a friend’s wedding.
She disappeared soon after her arrival, and her family reported her missing when she failed turn up at their home by Wednesday afternoon.
Her body was found in the Silverglen Nature Reserve on Thursday.
Her prayer beads led police to the Hare Krishna temple where officials helped to track down her family.
Police believe Debipursad tried to contact family members and a friend to fetch her at the bus depot.
Detective Inspector Vinesh Rajpersad said the investigation would continue in Gauteng.
Random murders are very common in Muslim countries, Africa, Asia, Eastern block European Countries, South America, parts of the United States and out back Australia.
It is speculated that some devotees, who were thought to have 'blooped' in different parts of the world have, in some cases, not just disappeared, but have meet with foul play.
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by Vrindavan Lila Dasi
The day before Gaura Purnima this year we have lost one of very talented and prominent gurukulie boy, Krishna Das. He was born in Moscow to Bal Krishna Prabhu and Savitri Mataji.
He was very open and friendly character, talented movie-maker, enthusiast of keeping Gurukulie family united.
What happened?
Boys were playing in the Ganga, on a boat – diving, swimming, playing.
Krishna Das was also prompted to jump off the boat by his friends. He was a good swimmer, but somehow when he did jump in the water this time he got dragged in by the Ganga...well, there are more details of how it happened…, but in this article we are simply informing vaishnava community of the fact that we have lost a very valuable young member of our society, full of potential to preach effectively and to attract people to Krishna Consciousness through his art and personality.
This is very grievous loss for our society.
Ever since I knew Krishna Das (as a baby) I have been always noticing how much spiritually inclined this person is. He was very Krishna-conscious baby, then child and when he had grown up into a young man his personality really shined among his friends.
He had made several movies and one of them (about Anapa festival) was presented at ITV Film Festival in Mayapur and won one of the prises. His last film called Kuli-Mela (about gurukulie reunion in Russia).
I very much feel the pain his mother is going through, knowing her personally… Krishna Das was her only child, she had him late and was bringing him up with unlimited motherly LOVE and care, he was her pressures treasure.
Of cause we are not in control of the destiny, but we certainly could pay better attention to each other’s existence and endeavours in Krishna Consciousness.
We all have no doubt that Krishna Das is in good spiritual care, whatever destination he has gone on to. One who dies in Mayapur is certainly will get attention of Srila Prabhupada and Lord Chaitanya.
It is us, who stay back to live our lives, we have to think more carefully how we handle the priceless vaishnava association we have been given by couseless mercy of Srila Prabhupada.
Every vaisnava going out of our life – is the loss that can’t be measured… and if we really feel that way we would try to take better care not to loose anyone unnecessary or “accidentally”, because accidentally means wastefully…- There would be lot less accidents if we would care to protect each other.
At the funeral Mother Savitri said that she feel that all gurukulies are her children and offered her help, association and motherly love to all friends of Krishna Dasa and all gurukulies.
Hare Krishna.
his website - http://www.bala.ru/
Krishna Das made this photo, this is his favourite photo of Pancha-tattva in Mayapur:
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this is some video footage of Krishna Dasa's funeral and cremation:
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" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425">Posted by Mayapur Katha
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For the all-living entities, the mahat-tattva MATERIAL creation is an unnatural phenomenon to be covered with and trapped in. It is important to understand that the MATERIAL bodily vessel one is in, belongs to and is part of the mahat-tattva
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The facts
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada -"Since material elements are present within each other, there are innumerable ways to construe and categorize the material creation of God. Ultimately, however, the significant element is God Himself, who is the basis of all the transformations and permutations of the material cosmos.
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The creation of the material world takes place by a progression from subtle to gross elements, as explained in the sāńkhya-yoga system of Lord Kapila. The example may be given that we find the dormant existence of an earthen pot within mud and also the existence of mud within the earthen pot" From Chapter 22: Enumeration of the Elements of Material Creation (mahat-tattva) Canto 11 Śrīmad Bhāgavatam
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On entering the mahat-tattva or MATERIAL UNIVERSES, the living entity (baddha-jiva) is confined to a MATERIAL bodily vessel provided by Maha-Vishnu with His restricted material universe and only in this way is the out garments of inferior matter (bodily vessels) moved within the mahat-tattva.
For the all-living entities, the mahat-tattva MATERIAL creation is an unnatural phenomenon to be covered with and trapped in. It is important to understand that the MATERIAL bodily vessel one is in, belongs to and is part of the mahat-tattva
For us souls who are ensnare in the mahat-tattva’s MATERIAL containments of ethereal or biological bodies find it hard to understand the fact that such bodies are Maha-Vishnu's creation and not ours. Due to such attachment to these MATERIAL VESSELS we foolishly think is us.
We cannot understand that an imperishable universe exists beyond the confines of the MATERIAL bodily vessels we possess, that ARE the MATERIAL energy OR the mahat-tattva covering the memory of our real svarupa eternal identity in Vaikuntha.
We presently cannot understand that our real genuin home in Vaikuntha, is only where the eternal imperishable present exists beyond the concept of past and future, that are mundane qualities that only exist in the maha-tattva (MATERIAL MANIFESTATION) creation of Maha-Vishnu.
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Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 11.22.18
"As the material elements, headed by the mahat-tattva, are transformed, they receive their specific potencies from the glance of the Supreme Lord, and being amalgamated by the power of nature, they create the universal egg".
Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 11.22.33
When the three modes of nature are agitated, the resultant transformation appears as the element false ego in three phases — goodness, passion and ignorance. Generated from the mahat-tattva, which is itself produced from the unmanifest pradhāna, this false ego becomes the cause of all material illusion and duality.
PURPORT
By giving up one's false ego of identification with the three modes of nature, one can achieve Krishna consciousness, the pure, original state of existence. The word moha-vikalpa-hetuh indicates that because of false ego one considers himself to be the enjoyer of nature and thus develops a false sense of material duality in terms of material happiness and distress. False ego is removed by identifying oneself as the Lord's eternal servitor in full Krishna consciousness.
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The facts
Since material elements are present within each other, there are innumerable ways to construe and categorize the material creation of God. Ultimately, however, the significant element is God Himself, who is the basis of all the transformations and permutations of the material cosmos.
The creation of the material world takes place by a progression from subtle to gross elements, as explained in the sāńkhya-yoga system of Lord Kapila. The example may be given that we find the dormant existence of an earthen pot within mud and also the existence of mud within the earthen pot.
Similarly, one element is present within another, and ultimately all elements rest within the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is simultaneously within everything. By such explanations, Krishna consciousness constitutes the ultimate scientific methodology for factually understanding this universe.
Although innumerable philosophers may rationally describe the material creation from different points of view, one cannot perfect one's knowledge without Krishna consciousness. An intellectual person should therefore not be falsely proud simply because he has ascertained a particular truth within the material world.
The Lord here states that one who follows the Vedic way of analysis will undoubtedly have many insights concerning the material creation. Ultimately, however, one must become a devotee of the Supreme Lord and perfect one's knowledge in Krishna consciousness.
Although the Lord tolerates different methods of calculating material causes within their effects and material effects within their causes, there cannot be any speculation regarding the two spiritual elements found in this universe, namely the individual soul and the Supersoul. Lord Krishna clearly states in this verse that the living entity is incapable of effecting his own enlightenment.
The Supreme Lord is tattva-jña, omniscient, and jñāna-da, the spiritual master of the entire universe. Śrī Uddhava mentioned that some philosophers describe twenty-five elements and others twenty-six. The difference is that the twenty-six elements include a separate category for the individual soul and the Supreme Soul, Lord Krishna, whereas the proponents of twenty-five elements artificially merge the two transcendental categories of jīva-tattva and vishnu-tattva, hiding the eternal supremacy of the Personality of Godhead.
Knowledge based on the three modes of material nature cannot rise to the transcendental platform, where the Personality of Godhead exists as the supreme enjoyer of eternal spiritual varieties of form, color, flavor, musical sounds and loving affairs.
Mundane philosophers simply bounce back and forth between material enjoyment and material renunciation.
Being victims of Māyāvāda (impersonal) perception of the Absolute Truth, they cannot achieve the shelter of the Personality of Godhead and thus cannot understand Him. Because foolish, impersonal philosophers consider themselves supreme, they are unable to appreciate that loving service exists on the spiritual platform.
Stubbornly rejecting subservience to the Personality of Godhead, the impersonalists are eventually overwhelmed by the illusory potency of the Lord and undergo the miseries of material existence. The Vaishnavas, on the other hand, are not envious of the Personality of Godhead.
They gladly accept His shelter and supremacy, and thus the Lord personally takes charge of His devotees and enlightens them, filling them with His own transcendental bliss. Spiritual service to the Supreme Lord is in this way free from the disappointment and repression of material service
According to certain philosophers there are twenty-five elements, among which a single category is stipulated for both the individual living entity and the Supreme Lord. Such impersonal knowledge is declared by the Lord to be material: jñānam ca prakriter gunah. Such knowledge can, however, be accepted to establish the qualitative identity of the Supreme Lord and the living entities who expand from Him.
Materialistic persons sometimes believe that there is a supreme spirit in heaven but also think that human beings are identical with their material bodies and thus qualitatively and perpetually separated from the Supreme Lord. Knowledge of the Lord's qualitative oneness with the living entity, as described in this verse, refutes the materialistic concept of life and partially establishes the Absolute Truth.
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu described the actual situation as acintya-bhedābheda-tattva: the supreme controller and the controlled living entities are simultaneously one and different. In the material mode of goodness the oneness is perceived. As one proceeds further, to the stage of viśuddha-sattva, or purified spiritual goodness, one finds spiritual variety within the qualitative oneness, completing one's knowledge of the Absolute Truth.
The words na vailakshanyam anv api boldly affirm that the individual living entity is indisputably part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and qualitatively one with Him. Any philosophical attempt to separate the living entity from the Supreme Lord and deny his eternal servitude to the Lord is thus refuted.
Speculation arriving at the conclusion that the living entity has independent existence separate from the Lord is described here as apārthā, useless. Nevertheless, the theory of twenty-five elements is acceptable to the Lord as a preliminary phase in the evolution of spiritual knowledge.
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So obviously the "first term of creation is that of the mahat-tattva, then there are other terms of creation after the mahat-tattva. From subtle to gross is how the creation unfolds.There are different aspects of the mahat-tattva like subtle bodies and gross bodies and then there is the unmovable objects, Sarva is explaining how the material energy and mahat-tattva are exactly the same - in a different way. for example -
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Sarva gattah
The inferior energy (mahat-tattva) is managed and maintained by Maha-Vishnu and His expansions, servants and demigods. The inferior energy (mahat-tattva) can only be moved when the marginal living entities enters a mahat-tattva bodily costume (ethereal and biological) that allows the living entity to move around the rest of the mahat-tattva in that materially constructed costumed outfit (also the mahat-tattva). Such temporary costumes are always in the mode of decay where the ignorant marginal living entity is restricted on different levels karma that is fuelled by selfish desires.
That's how it is for all living entities trapped in the mahat-tattva, a place where rebellious souls can attempt to dream up what ever selfish existence they desire and deserve.
Also it is important to understand that the mahat-tattva-ethereal and biological costumes or bodies always belong to the Leasing Agents, Maha-Vishnu and His wife Maya Devi. Such bodily vessels always remain a part and parcel of the Lords mahat-tattva creation however the trapped souls real home is in Goloka.
The costumes within the mahat-tattva follow Maha-Vishnu's script and design according to His dreams that simultaneously meets the desires, thoughts, imaginings, dreams and requirements of each of the baddha jivas visiting from outside the mahat-tattva.
No living entities, Vishnu-tattva or jiva-tattva can come from the mahat-tattva or inferior lifeless energies of the Lord - that is not possible. All living entities originate from Goloka
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The inferior energy (mahat-tattva) can only be moved when the marginal living entities enters a mahat-tattva bodily costume (ethereal and biological) that allows the living entity to move around the rest of the mahat-tattva (material creation) in those aquired materially constructed costumed outfit or bodies (also included as being part of the mahat-tattva)..
This is clearly explained is sanskrit terminology in Chapter 22: Enumeration of the Elements of Material Creation (mahat-tattva) Canto 11 Śrīmad Bhāgavatam
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this material universe is NOT mahat-tattva.WHAT A NONSENSE
Hey Einstein (Kulapavana) This material creation IS mahat-tattva and the mahat-tattva IS the inferior energies of the Lord - Read SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS, you might learn something!!
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The eternal svarupa of the jiva
in Spiritual Discussions
Posted · Report reply
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by gHari
Do we think 'marginal potency' is a place?
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Srila Prabhupada - "We are marginal energy! Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt".letter to Lilavati prabhu April 25, 1969 Allston, Mass USA
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Sarva gattah
Our original position is perpetually established in Goloka (NITYA-SIDDHA) beyond the mundane time and space of the mahat-tattva (material creation) as well as the impersonal Brahmajyoti from where some wrongly say we originate from as a plain sheet of consciousness."
Srila Prabhupada rejected the idea we originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti and personally told us that we came down from Goloka some millions of years ago, not as our perpetual nitya-siddha body, but as a dreaming consciousness (nitya-baddha) that is facilitated with bodily costumes provided by Maha-Vishnu."
Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of coming down by misusing his little independence"
Marginal - The living entities or jiva-tatastha's (of whom their full potential is nitya-siddha in Goloka) are perpetually independant and eternally have free will. This means they have the choice to be with Krishna as who they really are (nitya-siddha) or manifest their own imaginary world as nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva.
Srila Prabhupada - "In Caitanya-caritamrta (Adi 5.142) it is said, ekale isvara krsna, ara saba bhrtya: the only supreme master is Krsna, and all others, both visnu-tattva and jiva-tattva, engage in the service of the Lord. Both the visnu-tattva (as Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita) and the jiva-tattva (srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda) engage in the service of the Lord, but one must distinguish between the visnu-tattva servitors and the jiva-tattva servitors."
Srila Prabhupada: "Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then"?
Srila Prabhupada: "Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. ". 69-10-27 letter sent from John Lennon’s Estate Tittenhurst (Temporary Temple in 1969)
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The nitya-siddha bodily self is eternally liberated in Goloka, existing in the endless presents and pastimes of Krishna.
The nitya-baddha bodiless dreaming consciousness is actively within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu, where the jiva-baddha consciousness is confined to ethereal and biological bodily vessels so one can actively act out their nonsensical dreams within His mahat-tattva.
As already explained, Srila Prabhupada has told us that the mahat-tattva is governed by past, present and future that has the by-product of impermanence and decay.
Both are temporary conditions because the DREAMING nitya-baddha consciousness is not who one really is perpetually.
Srila Prabhupada has further explained that the marginal living entity does not go from nitya siddha to nitya baddha, THATS NOT POSSIBLE because all marginal living entities are always nitya-siddha, they only DREAM they are nitya baddha.
The nitya-siddha svarupa identity is eternally ones genuine identity perpetually.
Srila Prabhupada is clearly telling us that the dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and is given material ethereal and biological bodily facilities or vessels that make such dreams a temporary reality.
However, they are subject to decay and are transitory.
Srila Prabhupada is telling us that at the same 'time' that one chooses to be absorbed in their non-Krishna nitya-baddha dreams, ones 'svarupa' body is perpetually in Goloka in the eternal 'present' similtaneously.
Unfortunately even many so called advanced devotees cannot understand these facts.
At times Srila Prabhupada said it was a waste of time to understand and at other times he said it was important to understand.
It depends on the devotee