realist

<TABLE height=30 cellSpacing=2 width=800 bgColor=#cc99cc border=2><TBODY><TR><TD width=737 height=22> Michael Cassidy (Mangalananda das) – Change of Heart </TD><TD width=53 height=22> listen </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE height=30 cellSpacing=2 width=800 bgColor=#cc99cc border=2><TBODY><TR><TD width=737 height=22> Michael Cassidy (Mangalananda das) – Oh Govinda </TD><TD width=53 height=22> listen </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE height=30 cellSpacing=2 width=800 bgColor=#cc99cc border=2><TBODY><TR><TD width=737 height=22> Michael Cassidy (Mangalananda das) – Golden Avatar </TD><TD width=53 height=22> listen </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE height=30 cellSpacing=2 width=800 bgColor=#cc99cc border=2><TBODY><TR><TD width=737 height=22> Michael Cassidy (Mangalananda das) – Swetadwip </TD><TD width=53 height=22> listen </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE height=30 cellSpacing=2 width=800 bgColor=#cc99cc border=2><TBODY><TR><TD width=737 height=22> Michael Cassidy (Mangalananda das) – Changing the Face of the Earth </TD><TD width=53 height=22> listen </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Our original position is eternal, we are all eternally nitya-siddha which IS our original and eternal position, presently covered while we dream away in the material creation.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Brahmajyoti or Krsna’s effulgence, IS the entire creation, divided up into three zones of conscious thought, from devotional activity in the Vaikunthas, to conditioned activity in the mahat-tattva, to inactivity in the dormant dreamless state - All are aspects of the Brahmajyoti<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These different aspects of the Brahmajyoti can be achieved or experienced by free will and choice however, ONLY Krsna's abode and the Vaikunthas, that make up 75% of the Brahmajyoti, Spiritual Sky or creation, are without end and situated in the personal active 'eternal present' of Krsna's perpetual pastimes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The other 25% of the Brahmajyoti is made up of those who have chosen to forgotten their nitya -siddha body in the 'eternal present' and have entered that part of creation known as the perishable mahat-tattva and later on may enter the temporary impersonal Brahman, both in a 'dream consciousness' known as the baddha-jiva.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This devotional active original fullness of the Brahmajyoti is eternal personal, which means it is made up of ALL living entities that are perpetually represented there in their perpetual nitya-siddha body serving Krsna<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> For a living entity, who has transmigrated through the lower species to the human biological body, simply means that the living entity had FIRST chosen to ‘consciously (like in a dream), fall down from Krsnaloka, long, long, long ago, from also the eternal body that is their real perpetual ‘self’ (nitya-siddha) whose only activity there is serving Krsna or God. This was achieved by free will and choice; the marginal living entity therefore is able to leave Goloka ‘consciously’ as their secondary lower baddha-jiva consciousness and travel to the heavenly planets within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The baddha-jiva may then travel further to the middle planets, then the hellish planets, and the then to lower species of biological life. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some baddha-jivas may also take shelter in the dormant aspect of their own baddha-jiva consciousness that is collectively, along with other baddha-jivas who have also chosen the dreamless dream state, known as the impersonal aspect of the Brahman effulgence<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The impersonal characteristic of the Brahmajyoti or Brahman IS the nitya-baddha souls in a collective of souls that IS the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.<o:p></o:p> The brahmajyoti is full of jiva-souls; the word sarva-gatah means life IS the Brahmajyoti and is everywhere. So, what is the Brahmajyoti?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Brahmajyoti or Krsna’s effulgence, IS the entire creation, divided up into three zones of conscious thought, from devotional activity in the Vaikunthas, to conditioned activity in the mahat-tattva, to inactivity in the dormant dreamless state - All are aspects of the Brahmajyoti<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 1.The Vaikunthas and Krsnaloka those are always active in service to Krsna or Vishnu<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 2. The mahat-tattva or material creation of Maha-Vishnu that is where the marginal living entity can CHOOSE to go to lead their own way of life without Krsna<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 3. When those who have entered the mahat-tattva become fed up with the temporary frustrating nature of the material world and the vessels or bodies they move around in, they often seek an inactive dormant state of consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They only seek out such an end to their existence because they still have no memory or recollection of their eternal body in Krsnaloka. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, due to this ignorant state the baddha-jiva is in, they choose to learn through the yogic process, to ‘close their consciousness down’ and stop the generation of thought. (which can be achieved, but is also a temporary dormant 'state of the baddha-jiva's consciousness".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This dormant conscious state of the baddha-jiva is known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti, which means it is the ‘inactive ‘state of consciousness of the souls that make up and IS the Personal Brahmajyoti – hence its reflection is the impersonal aspect of that same Brahmajyoti.

And try and disribute a few of Srila Prabhupada's wonderful books Wow, how fortunate was I to be trained up in Prabhupada's book selling by the great pioneer of Book distribution, Buddhimanta Prabhu in 1973. I remember travelling with him, Hari Sauri, Gopikanta, Yasomatinandana, Balarama, Gopinathacarya, Somendrinath, and Gauragopala. We would stop in our orange combi-Van and chant in towns we visited and my God, those kirtans were ecstatically powerful. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Those days were the best kirtans And there is the great Buddhimanta dasa playing the base drum in Melbourme 1974 (Rathayatra festival)

The above is the fact of life that EVERYONE on this forum needs to somehow comprehend. And elevate themselves off the mental plateform, that makes them believe they are the vessels or body, they are trapped in, which is rented and obtained off Maha-Vishnu. The material body is just another part of Maha-Vishnu's material creation. It belongs to him, not us. Some yogis even believe these vessels , both subtle ethereal and gross biological, are continiously created in every new manifestation of the mahat-tattva within another time and place and occupied by a different baddha-jiva. H owever, in our primitive level of spirituality, that is too much of a shock and too bizarre for our false ego to even contemplate. Why? Because we think WE alone are this material body throughout all time and space, we are convienceed that 'I am this material body' . If we continue thinking like that, we are all in for a servere shock at the time of death when we are 'kicked out ' of these taxi like bodies by the owner of the taxi, Kshirodakasayi Vishnu or Paramatma .( Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 6 Chapter 12 ) Our material body or vessel is like a taxi, if you know what I mean, and in the end we MUST pay the fare and vacate it. So the most important point to understand at our immature level of spirituality is - We are not the material body (false ego) Get out of the maha-tattva, Get back to where you belong <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by krsna = Srila Prabhupada -" You are Krishna 's part and parcel. As you love your hands and legs, as you feel when your hand is in trouble, similarly Krishna feels for you when you are in trouble . The hand has value when it is attached to the body. Similarly, we have values when we are Krishna Conscious. The hand has no value detached from the whole body. Krishna is the Whole and we are His parts and parcel. Try to understand this philosophy of simultaneously one and different. The hand and body is created all at a time. It is not that the body is created first and then the hand is created. Our relation with Krishna is like the hand and the body. Therefore, Krishna and we both are eternal, and there is no history of eternity. It has no beginning and no end. Krishna is bl ue because He is all attractive. The sky is blue because it reflects Krishna 's blue color in the spiritual sky as much as the sunlight is reflected through skylight glasses. I hope your questions are fully answered; if at any time you have got some questions, please write and send them to me. Thanking you once more for your nice letter." ~ SP Letter to William Odell, Los Angeles, CA February 4, 1968 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning, KRSNALOKA The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning, KRSNALOKA <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0> This is why all marginal living entities have free will and the ability to choose, so they can serve Krsna with their own offerings, or jointly with other devotees, they create or think of themselves. This is why individuality and free will is paramount, without it, we are just pawns or robots without any ability to love, to give, to serve Such incredible statements are mind-boggling because how is it possible to calculate endless Spiritual creation without Bhakti (Ever expanding loving personal service with ones own individual creativity, to Krishna)?Even just a little service to a pure devotee can save one from the greatest fear and allow one to understand things that have always been inconceivable to others.Writing, is attempting to communicate knowledge of the Absolute to those who are seeking to understand. Actually this is why Veda Vysa wrote the Vedas however, without the person Bhagavat (the spiritual Master), or some spiritual piety that attracts one to even just a painting of the Lord and His devotees within a book, then such words are only ink on paper.Just like you cannot build a staircase to heaven, you also cannot understand your relationship with God with just a pen on paper or a computer or even a having a book like Srimad Bhagavatam. One must have the favour of their spiritual master, even if that is in the form of chastisement, as in my case. The point is, these things CAN be understood by personal realization, but ONLY by the direct guidance and help from ones Guru. However, such knowledge of our 'origins' is NOT necessary to perform one's service to Krsna. As the Christians say, 'there is no other way' no-one goes back to the father without the mercy of the Spiritual Master. To understand all spiritual realizations, only comes by the personal realizations based on one's service to ones Spiritual Master, or even, as in many cases, the causeless mercy of ones spiritual Master comes from within ones own heart. As you one can see, this is a very personal search for God and therefore difficult for the 'ink writers' alone with their ink and computers to understand.It is like trying to lick and taste the nectar of honey by licking the glass jar or container that the honey is sealed in without having the association of 'pure' devotees </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Success is an Opinion BY: KURMA DASA May 30, AUSTRALIA (SUN) — In an article recently posted by Ashvatama dasa titled " An Historical View of ISKCON's History ", a reference was made to the "nice preaching" going on at ISKCON's Melbourne temple in Australia. The article spoke of how the Sunday Feast was so packed that you can't get in, and that because of this the article's anonymous author made the claim that the preaching was successful. We have made a few observations of our own over the years, and would like bring them to the readers attention. Success is measured like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. Mostly, people who attend ISKCON's Melbourne Sunday feast attend simply on the basis of getting a free meal, that's all ! This includes a large portion of the Indian community. For this very reason we firmly believe that much of what was originally done with Love and Devotion, (the essential ingredient) is now mostly done in resentment. Many devotees resent the fact that people simply come to the temples to eat and don't make any real contribution, or take any real interest in spiritual life. When love is lost then everything is lost. The quality of prasadam is of a very low standard. It is, in many instances bland, tasteless, hot, bitter, and put quite frankly, is not at all prepared with Love and Devotion. I am not saying that prasadam should be opulent. It can be very simple as we know, however, we are devotees and prasadam is an experience, and as such we certainly can taste when love and devotion is absent. To really measure success we need to look at some of the other areas of ISKCON, such as how many people attend the Harinam? Or how many of these people that go to the Sunday feasts, when they get paid their salaries do they think of Krishna and how important ISKCON is to the planet? I believe that Christians give 10% and Muslims give 50%, but Krishna says, "As each person surrenders to Him He rewards each person accordingly". I know of Christians who, when they get their weekly salaries, before they spend one cent, they give their 10% to their church or organization. This isn't the case with all of these people who attend ISKCON's temples each week for a free meal. Many of them are very crafty, and the temple is simply a place to frequent for a free feed. And we must conclude that on their scale of importance, spiritual life and ISKCON don't rate number one. (Our GBC and Temple authorities must take much of the blame for this, it is very costly.) Of course, they will get some spiritual benefit from eating prasadam, however, I do not believe that we can really claim this as successful preaching. Another example is Harinam. For the weekly Harinam, the staunch fired-up devotees are lucky if they can muster up six or seven people to attend. This is our where our hearts are, we are greedy for food but not for devotional service, and this is not fair to the full-time devotees who live in the temples. It creates a resentment that is like a poison running through the temple atmosphere, which in fact should be a blissful atmosphere and attractive to all people who attend. A point about some people in the Indian community too, what we have seen is that while the Sunday feast lecture is on, they just march through the temple giving no respect to the speaker. They talk and take pictures with their mobile phones and then simply walk out! Personally, I don't believe that Srila Prabhupada would be happy at all about these things, and it is about time our GBC and Temple leaders and managers start to get some Order back in the Temples, the type of order that was established by Srila Prabhupada. As it is now, many people have no respect for ISKCON Temples. Krishna Consciousness without Love and Devotion is useless, and in no way could be considered successful. At this website there is a comparison of how things were established by Srila Prabhupada and how different those things are today. Our GBC, Temple managers and serious devotees might wish to give some consideration to these comparisons made by H.G. Pratyatosa prabhu. Kurma Dasa (not the chef)

Well certainly it will help them think they are not their stinky biological body and those around them are not their stinky body they so called love You know, I took my young nephews to a slaughter house when they were 13 years old, we walked through watched how the 'bolt gun' killed cows while they were making agonizing sounds, watched the animals getting skinned and their guts pulled out. Then their bodies being cut up and nicely rapped ready for the uper market shelves. When we walked out of that place, one of the twins vomited while the other was pale. All they could say was, "That was horribly discusting" Both have been vegertarians ever since Do you want meto post phtos of what goes on in a slaughter House? When we see this material world for what it really is, it scares us, makes us uncomfortable, WHY? Because we still think we are these stinking biological bags of puss, stool and rooten fishy smells

I do not agree, 99% are NOT possession but simply the demons within ones own mind, chant Hare Krishna and at least try an anti-psychotic drug. You never know, it might work The mind always blows things WAY OUT OF proportion when the material body is sick, don't listen to your mind. Your are only possessed if you think you are. chant HARE KRISHNA and equally importantly, visit http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/549819 Try ABILIFY®, it will help that part of the brain that makes you think the illusions or the conviction you are possessed are very real. I see it all the time - just try to fix the machine or vessel you are in. The brain is an organ of the body, so just like if you break your arm you see a doctor, also seek medical help when the brain id damaged TRY ABILIFY®

Srila Prabhupada - "We are marginal energy! Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt".letter to Lilavati prabhu April 25, 1969 Allston, Mass USA Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Sarva gattah Our original position is perpetually established in Goloka (NITYA-SIDDHA) beyond the mundane time and space of the mahat-tattva (material creation) as well as the impersonal Brahmajyoti from where some wrongly say we originate from as a plain sheet of consciousness." Srila Prabhupada rejected the idea we originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti and personally told us that we came down from Goloka some millions of years ago, not as our perpetual nitya-siddha body, but as a dreaming consciousness (nitya-baddha) that is facilitated with bodily costumes provided by Maha-Vishnu." Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of coming down by misusing his little independence" Marginal - The living entities or jiva-tatastha's (of whom their full potential is nitya-siddha in Goloka) are perpetually independant and eternally have free will. This means they have the choice to be with Krishna as who they really are (nitya-siddha) or manifest their own imaginary world as nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva. Srila Prabhupada - "In Caitanya-caritamrta (Adi 5.142) it is said, ekale isvara krsna, ara saba bhrtya: the only supreme master is Krsna, and all others, both visnu-tattva and jiva-tattva, engage in the service of the Lord. Both the visnu-tattva (as Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita) and the jiva-tattva (srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda) engage in the service of the Lord, but one must distinguish between the visnu-tattva servitors and the jiva-tattva servitors." Srila Prabhupada: "Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then"? Srila Prabhupada: "Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. ". 69-10-27 letter sent from John Lennon’s Estate Tittenhurst (Temporary Temple in 1969) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> The nitya-siddha bodily self is eternally liberated in Goloka, existing in the endless presents and pastimes of Krishna. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> The nitya-baddha bodiless dreaming consciousness is actively within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu, where the jiva-baddha consciousness is confined to ethereal and biological bodily vessels so one can actively act out their nonsensical dreams within His mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> Or is conditioned outside the Vaikuntha realm and outside the active mahat-tattva, within an Impersonal inactive dormant jiva-baddha dreamless condition known as the collective impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman, where an unlimited number of 'jiva-baddhas' remain in that dormant state that appears and expands (due to souls constanly being liberated from the mahat-tattva) as an individual collective of living light particles, not aware of past, present and future. As already explained, Srila Prabhupada has told us that the mahat-tattva is governed by past, present and future that has the by-product of impermanence and decay. Both are temporary conditions because the DREAMING nitya-baddha consciousness is not who one really is perpetually. Srila Prabhupada has further explained that the marginal living entity does not go from nitya siddha to nitya baddha, THATS NOT POSSIBLE because all marginal living entities are always nitya-siddha, they only DREAM they are nitya baddha. The nitya-siddha svarupa identity is eternally ones genuine identity perpetually. Srila Prabhupada is clearly telling us that the dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and is given material ethereal and biological bodily facilities or vessels that make such dreams a temporary reality However, they are subject to decay and are transitory. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted on "How have we fallen in this material world?" No one sleeps like this as so many wrongly understand from the 'no-fall camp, and comes to the material world while their nity-siddha body is asleep or dormant. It is not like that. In fact ones service in Goloka is always very active even if ones 'conscious awareness' has moved to the mahat-tattva. No-one falls asleep 'in this way as believed by by some of the 'no-fall; Gaudiya Math and ISKCON devotees in Vaikuntha or Goloka then dreams they are in the material world. No, it is not like that. WHY?? To understand correctly, for a living entity to transmigrate through the lower species to again reach the human body, means the living entity has FIRST chosen to fall down previously, long, long, long ago from Vaikuntha, as their secondary lower baddha-jiva consciousness to the heavenly planets, then further to the middle planets, then the hellish planets and the then to lower species of biological life. Some also take shelter in the dormant aspect of their own baddha-jiva consciousness that, along with other nitya-baddha souls, is a collective of souls known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman however, that 'inactive' state of individual consciousness is also temporary and one falls down from there again to the mahat-tattva or material creation to the encloser of ethereal and biological vessels. Unfortunately many foolishly believe that this impersonal Brahmajyoti is their origin, but it is really just another dream state (A DREAMLESS DREAM IN THIS CASE) of the baddha-jiva. Secondly, the photo of the Sadhu laying down sleeping, in no way represents how the living entity comes down 'sub-consciously' from their perpetual nitya-siddha body to the material creation as their baddha-jiva dreaming conscious state. Actually because of the ‘concept of time’ there is really no two states of consciousness which means there is really no sub conscious secondary self, even though it is explained that way. What is really going on is to do with time, the time that separates the ‘eternal present’ in Goloka from the divided time of ‘past, present and future of the mahat-tattva. This sentence is very important to understand. There is no 'laying down sleeping in Vaikuntha or Goloka, and then dreaming' ones material existence, it is not like that. What actually happens is the non-Krishna conscious desire and imaginations happen on the sub conscious level out of sync with the 'eternal present' that is eternally existent in Goloka. Therefore the ONLY thing that happens is that the living entity leaves the spiritual Vaikuntha atmosphere of eternal time that is devoid of past and future. The marginal living entity, as its secondary inferior baddha-jiva self, that only appears as a secondary manifestation of the self due to the altered state of time, then enters the divided time of past, present and future of the mahat-tattva. The paradox here is no one never really leaves Goloka, they only imagine they do by falling out of sync with the 'eternal present'. What’s more is, it's almost as if the awareness of the living entities nitya siddha body is suspended (at least to those who have fallen) but actually from the point of view of Goloka, everything is still going on in the service of the Lord in relationships with Krishna and His associates. The only thing that has changed is the ones awareness of 'eternal time' in relation to 'divided time' In this way it is incorrect to think a nitya-siddha devotee lays down and sleeps and dreams their baddha-jiva material existence, no it is not like that. Actually when one again becomes aware of their eternal nitya-siddha body and relationship with Krishna, it will be as if their baddha-jiva dream state never existed. On return to the 'eternal present' it will be as if they never left because nothing has changed in Goloka. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

REALITY OF THE HUMAN BODY, AN AMAZING MACHINE, BUT THEY STINK<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> BY: SRI NANDANANDANA DASA (S. KNAPP) <o:p></o:p> The body is certainly an amazing machine. Scientists and doctors are still trying to figure out all the intricacies of how it works. However, the body is but a machine wherein nice food goes in one end and stool and urine comes out the other, thus requiring the nasty business of having to evacuate such things on a regular basis. Now how glamorous is that? But some of these bodies are considered to be rather beautiful, from a material perspective. Nonetheless, no matter how lovely it may be, it is still nothing but a machine. And they still stink, and I mean that literally. If you don’t take a regular shower and keep it clean, or use deodorants or perfumes, the body begins to smell bad. And sometimes even if you do all of that, parts of the body, like the feet, armpits, one’s breath, or other obnoxious and unmentionable parts of the body still smell horrible. And the longer you go without a bath, the stronger the stench. And this is an object of desire? This is what people want for sex pleasure? And if they do, we can only question whether they have a good and thorough grip on reality. Or maybe they only see what they want to see, which is exactly what I mean: They are caught in the illusion.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, when you look a little deeper and see what’s under the skin, all the blood, muscles, nerve systems, bones, internal organs, gastro-intestinal tract, etc., then how desirable is it to want to hold such a bag of these ingredients in your arms? <o:p> </o:p> <o:p></o:p> Materialistic men may look at a beautiful woman and imagine the way she looks without her clothes on. But try looking at any such person a little more deeply and imagine how they would look without their skin. Then are they so attractive? Are they still so desirable? Yet, this is the reality of the body, this is the fact of the matter. It is no different with any of us. We are all in these contraptions called material bodies. And, like it is said, such physical beauty is only skin deep.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This does not mean that you show any disdain toward people because of their bodies, but you must realize your own predicament of being inside such a contraption and be humble about it.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Now that you realize the faults of a material body, you must be humble since you are also in such a contraption, the same situation as others, and not expect respect just because of some bodily difference, whether good or bad. <o:p></o:p> <TABLE width=500><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER> <HR width="80%"> </CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Ø You could see the external body hair, the skin, the nasal passages, the brain, or other internal organs, like the liver, lungs, intestines, bowels, kidneys, along with muscles, veins, heart, arteries, etc. Looking at such a thing will give you many realizations about the body. <o:p></o:p> I have seen an exhibit at a museum wherein a professor had taken a couple of bodies, both male and female, and cut them into one-inch slices and put them between two pieces of glass. Thus, you could see various segments of the skull, legs, and torso from shoulder to groin. You could see the external body hair, the skin, the nasal passages, the brain, or other internal organs, like the liver, lungs, intestines, bowels, kidneys, along with muscles, veins, heart, arteries, etc. Looking at such a thing will give you many realizations about the body As I stood there looking at it, wondering where is the pleasure in such a contraption, sometimes other people would come by and not realize what it was. Then when they did, they would often quickly run to some other part of the museum. Sometimes a man would be looking at it, and then his wife would come along and say, “What’s this? Oh, God, let’s go,” and then grab their husband’s arm and drag them away. Kids would come up and look and then go, “Oh, yuck, let’s go.” It was surprising how many people did not want to face the reality of the body, and the fact that we are situated inside one of these things.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Nowadays, there are new exhibits in science museums and other places that show bodies in active positions that are in various stages of having been skinned or dissected and then plasticized. They show the whole body in movement, and display all of the internal organs and muscles. This is fascinating to some people, but gruesome to others.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If you want to get a deeper realization of the mechanics of the body, or if you still are not convinced by the reality of what the body is, then take a look at this video of an autopsy by using this link, and see how long you can last. Take a look at what lies under the skin. I watched for about a minute and then had to look away. It’s a little shocking, but certainly gives some clarity on what I’ve been saying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRAh3Qse-Us.

in QuickList Monty Python - Life of Brian - so is he the messiah or not?

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0> Unfortunately, some of these so-called sannyasi's and leaders, (not all) as depicted in the above of Comrade Napoleon Maharaj, are so arrogant, they think they are ISKCON and ISKCON is them and the only way to ISKCON is through them. It is certainly CERTAINLY NOT the ISKCON Prabhupada told me to surrender to in and 'do as they say' Their version of ISKCON is NOT the ISKCON I joined in 1971 NOR THE ISKCON Prabhupada talks about in his books, letters, lectures and morning walks And it will NOT be the future of ISKCON later in the 21st Century either because gradually, the 'REAL' ISKCON Srila Prabhupada started will outgrow their post 1977 mundane 'self centred' immature pioneering so-called leadership and ownership over ISKCON and patronizing atitude like -. George Orwell's book Animal Farm “Do not imagine, comrades, that leadership is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?” from </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </B> His Holiness Comrade Napoleon Maharaj, the look in those eyes is amazing, it is exactly the same expression of a 'Swami' I know Although in all fairness, darkness cannot drive out darkness and ignorance trapping us; only Krishna Consciousness can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate and teach one how to forgive; only love or Bhakti can do that. Hare Krsna

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Free Speech BY: SURESH DASA May 21, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA (SUN) — Commenting on the article at Dandavats.com, " Free Speech in Krishna Consciousness " by Kesava Krsna Dasa (the comment was suppressed by Dandavats.com censors on May 19, 2008). Kesava Krsna Dasa’s recent article at Dandavats.com, entitled “Free Speech in Krsna Consciousness” is a well presented article. There are many interesting, and well thought out points. What is the relevance of the picture enclosed with Kesava Krsna dasa’s article, “Loose lips may sink ships”? How is speaking the truth going to sink any ship, and which ships are they referring to? I realize this sounds really stupid on my part, but I don’t get it? In the back of my head I wonder if there is a new agenda afoot, which has been discussed and agreed upon, behind closed doors, by various higher ISKCON authorities, that the general society of devotees at large might not be party to, or even permitted to participate in. There appears to be a closing of doors now, which were only slightly opened at Dandavats.com for a while, going back to our society’s past, where complete curtailment of freedom of speech and freedom of the press was the norm within the worldwide society of devotees. I see a pattern emerging at Dandavats.com where debate on various issues, which was once quite lively and open, now seems much more sedate. It is the norm for many dissenting views to be suppressed at Dandavats, but now more than ever the censorship appears to have worsened. One wonders if the purpose or agenda is to create an impression that ISKCON is a society of only the most loyal and ardent supporters, who never see or experience any evil or wrongdoing, especially by the society’s most elite authorities. I appreciate that ISKCON has become a worldwide, highly popular movement, especially amongst the Indian community as well as in many regions where Krishna Consciousness was never known before. How disheartening it must be for newcomers to hear any negative or dissenting news or opposing viewpoints. Perhaps for many within ISKCON’s elite, there is a desire to have a completely white-washed society of loyal and quiet followers, who as the author has stated before, lay down their lives for ISKCON, give all their hard earned money as well as support and effort of every kind, but who in return expect and ask for nothing. Good luck finding such people. It is human nature that if something isn’t working quite right, eventually a person may begin to question why the relationship they may experience within Krishna Consciousness sometimes appears to be only one-sided. One in which the individual is expected, if not required, to do all the giving, but in return is expected not to gain any receiving, except the hope that in their next life there will be boons and benefits, again as the author has previously stated. What is more compelling is it is our actual philosophy to never expect anything at any time, in return for our service. Using this philosophy, Vaishnava religion can either be the greatest blessing for mankind or, if only a materialistic movement made up of only non-liberated and bound participants, the greatest betrayal of the spirit, offering only empty and hollow promises in return for what amounts to slavery and exploitation. The real purpose of Keshava Krsna dasa’s article is to support the new idea that websites like the Sampradaya Sun have no right to exist. No one should dare speak in conflict with or question ISKCON authorities, especially the GBC, or any person who should herefore be referred to as His Highness, His Grace, or Her Grace. Anyone who does so runs the risk of excommunication, or worse is condemned to hell (their own words). I truly appreciate the Sampradaya Sun, where a person can speak his mind and tell the truth of his experiences. Sampradaya Sun is a place where past hurts and grievances are not just swept under the rug and forgotten. May the flag of Sampradaya Sun always wave.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. Martin Luther King, Jr. History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Maya has nothing to do with it because she does not exist in that role in Vaikuntha. The answer is quite simple - it is the choice of the living entity, it is free will, the ability to be with Krishna as their eternal nitya-siddha body (who they really are) or drop out and do their own thing with the provisions provided by Krishna's expansion Maha-Vishnu

Kesava Krsna dasa It is a perrenial set of questioning; how to react or behave, towards suspect leadership and the policies they espouse. It is quite certain that even if we had a perfect checks and balance system in place, there will always be opportunities to circumvent them. It is one thing to get bound up in all sorts of issues, if only to set a precedent for future members of Iskcon. But there is also a tendency to condition our Krishna consciousness to events that happen around us. We often hear a weak, or neophyte devotee say he, or she, cannot practice their spiritual lives properly due to external factors discussed here. We have to admit, that circumstances affect the minds of devotees, but also offer a good excuse not to practice Krishna consciousness. On this level, these scapegoates can fuel all matter of terse and binding debates. which can border on the unneccessary. They can suck out our enthusiasm and intellectual capacities, which could otherwise be trained on the neccessary - trying to reach Krishna Prema. There will always be the type of soul with a nature suited to managerial and strategic deliberations, and all things related. Acknowledging this, the Iskcon ship will continue plying the turbulent waves of Kali-yuga. There is only so much an individual can do. So while all these contentious issues arise before us, and we continually dwell on them, sometimes to the point of mundane’ness, there sometimes has to be a cut off point for us. Will it help us get to Krishna Prema by dwelling on certain things, especially if we see devotees as conditioned? It usually happens that a self respecting person has respect for others. Perhaps an examination of why we may over react, or become highly strung in certain situations, can help us discover a misdirected use of energy. The point is, the potential to lose our resolve can begin with loss of respect for other devotees, however faulty they may be. Yes, we are all full of faults, and mistakes will be made, but let not this disract us from the desired freedom we all seek. These things will come and go, but we cannot let them dictate our level of dedication to perfect our lives. Rather, our own Krishna conscious standard should prevail, of which respectful free speech is an essential part. Many dreadful things have happened, and we can only learn, and move on. Dealing with them is sometimes beyond our control, if someone wilfully desires to bend the rules. Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.20.26 pāhi māḿ paramātmaḿs tepreṣaṇenāsṛjaḿ prajāḥ tā imā yabhituḿ pāpā upākrāmanti māḿ prabho SYNONYMS pāhi — protect; mām — me; parama-ātman — O Supreme Lord; te — Your; preṣaṇena — by order; asṛjam — I created; prajāḥ — living beings; tāḥ imāḥ — those very persons; yabhitum — to have sex; pāpāḥ — sinful beings; upākrāmanti — are approaching; mām — me; prabho — O Lord. TRANSLATION Lord Brahmā, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me. PURPORT It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahmā. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.

I liked the word better when I was growing up in the 50s, gay simply meant a lovely day

Quote:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; WIDTH: 100%; mso-cellspacing: 0cm; mso-padding-alt: 4.5pt 4.5pt 4.5pt 4.5pt" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 0.75pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 18pt; BORDER-TOP: #666666 0.75pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 18pt; BACKGROUND: #e0e0e0; PADDING-BOTTOM: 4.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 0.75pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 4.5pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 0.75pt solid">BY: KURMA DASA<o:p></o:p> Resolution 601, Year 2000 <o:p></o:p> BY: KURMA DASA <o:p></o:p> May 20, AUSTRALIA (SUN) — In the year 2000, ISKCON's GBC passed a Resolution that allowed devotees to be more devoted to, and take complete shelter of Srila Prabhupada rather than the guru they had been designated by ISKCON's guru system. <o:p></o:p> Resolution 601 went like this: <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “A duly initiated disciple in ISKCON can accept Srila Prabhupada, the founder-acarya of ISKCON, as his principle siksa-guru. During his devotional life, he may experience that he derives more spiritual inspiration from Srila Prabhupada's books and vani than from his own diksa-guru.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Quite a few devotees in this part of the world have taken up this resolution since it was implemented eight years ago, only to find themselves treated as second-class ISKCON citizens. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If you choose to follow Srila Prabhupada, then don't expect too much consideration when it comes to participation at your local temple. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the typical type of "Heroes in theory, Cowards in practice" style we have become accustomed to with some of our GBC, those who opt out of the chaotic ISKCON guru system to only follow Srila Prabhupada are seen as rebels. Any ideas they have in regard to making ISKCON a better place are not taken seriously, and are mostly fobbed off<o:p></o:p> . <o:p></o:p> One nice devotee that I know, who has rejected his fallen guru for quite a few years and now only follows Srila Prabhupada, finds rejection after rejection whenever he attempts to do good for his local temple<o:p></o:p> . <o:p></o:p> He is a great ideas man. For example, he wanted to install water tanks at his local temple so as to save on the water bill. He also wanted to grow the temple herbs such a basil, coriander, etc. to minimize the outlay for these herbs<o:p></o:p> . <o:p></o:p> Whenever he attempts to have any input at this level he is cut down and put in his place. To the contrary, the disciples of the various gurus, who come up with all sorts of scams to get money and various other ideas, including pyramid selling schemes (ideas that we eventually find trashed and the remnants left in the sheds around our temples), these disciples don't have any problem at all getting approval<o:p></o:p> . <o:p></o:p> Like we have mentioned here before, the costs of temple operations, buying flowers, herbs, milk products etc., are enormous here in Australia, and they are only set to increase with big rises in energy costs.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is time for ISKCON's leaders to remove all types of sectarianism, and to see that resolution 601, which was made in the year 2000, is not just a sentiment. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Kurma Dasa (not the chef) <o:p></o:p> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada disciples and Prabhupada’s grand disciples MUST be treated equally with the respect they deserve. If Kurma dasa is talking about Melbourne Temple, then Aniruddha dasa is also not a Prabhupada disciple either, yet is very dedicated in his service there, Sometimes one has to be ‘self motivated’ instead of waiting for assistance and ‘pats on the back’ off others. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Put it down to the pioneering years of immaturity and lack of prudence from those who are leaders – In other words just do it, don’t wait on others to tell you what to do. That’s what I did with my particular talent and service when I lived in the Temple, and it was very, very successful<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Unfortunately not much changes there possible due to the fact the old guard that includes grand disciples of Srila Prabhupada like Aniruddha Prabhu, is lead by other Prabhupada disciples in Australia leadership that has not changed their management style for years and live in an early ‘90s time-warb’ still. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In fact it is worse now than what is was back then, Western devotees have become very materialistic over the last ten or so years. Thank God for the support of the Hindu community and the Australian Government, who have let into Australia over 150,000 educated Indian Hindu nationals over the last four years<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One more point, I don't think it is necessary to rush into being initiated unless one is sure the Guru they choose can take them back home back to Godhead.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I pray that resolution 601 does not get twisted over the years where one can simply take initiation off a photo of Prabhupada, unfortunately that is already happening in places around the world.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The answer is simple; if one is really attached to Srila Prabhupada, then find one of his disciple’s who is also exceptionally attached to Prabhupada by strictly following his example. This is how one connects to Prabhupada and the parampara system.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is not possible to take Srila Prabhupada directly as ones Spiritual Master now because he is no longer physically present<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0> Personally, my realization is that as leaders we must bear responsibility for the impact our leadership actions have on the people we lead. A workman shouldn’t blame his tools, and a leader shouldn’t blame his followers, demanding that they just “grin and bear it and simply eat their halava”, as someone once put it.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Each of us has our sphere of influence and our sphere of concern, and within that sphere, conditioned or otherwise, we have our responsibility to act. It is our dharma to act according to our nature in that area. For example, if mothers had spoken out more vigorously about the treatment of their children we might have avoided the tragedy that unfolded in our gurukulas. Philosophy was also employed at that time that obstructed that tragedy from been dealt with as it should have been. <o:p></o:p> your servant,<o:p></o:p> Sita-pati das </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by krsna It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. -- Chinese proverb </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->I like that, thank you prabhu. In other words we can lament and wollow in all the worlds or ISKCON's problems and pollute our consciousness. Or we can get right into our own Sadhana of hearing and chanting Hare Krsna and become fixed up enough to tell others ONLY about Krsna, giving others the only help they really need

I like that, thank you prabhu. In other words we can lament wollow in all the worlds or ISKCON's problems and pollute our consciousness. Or we can get right into our own Sadhana and become fixed up enough to tell others ONLY about Krsna and Lord Caitanya, giving others the only help and understanding they really need

Hi folks, Thiest at your service