gauragopala dasa

The Meaning of "Tatastha s'akti"? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA <o:p></o:p> Jul 12, USA (SUN) — The Article "Falling From the Spiritual World" by Abhay caran dasa and the comments by Radhavallabha dasa, humbly, appear to me as a complete misunderstanding of tatastha s'akti and the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. <o:p></o:p> Can someone please tell me the real meaning of the word tatastha s'akti and the jiva soul's 'eternal' origin according to the devout teachings of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada? <o:p></o:p> This is how I understand his teachings: <o:p></o:p> "So to go to God or Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Homburg, Germany, June 22, 1974 <o:p></o:p> This seems to be pretty clear according to Srila Prabhupada, who rejects the 'impersonal Brahmajyoti origin that claims that the marginal living entity is originally in a dormant state from where one can use their free will to choose either Vaikuntha or the mahat-tattva. Many today in 'Hinduism' follow that misunderstanding and it appears to me, they have incorrectly used the word 'tatastha' to describe this impersonal dormant origin state of the jiva. Yes, I think I have understood this at least because Srila Prabhupada clearly rejected that idea. <o:p></o:p> They have impersonally described tatastha to be our original state that is on the border, in-between the land and the ocean (meaning Goloka and the material world) but their understanding is incomplete and rejected by Srila Prabhupada <o:p></o:p> It's therefore clear they do not understand the concept of the 'eternal present', where the full possible bodily expression and potential of the jiva tatastha is eternally found within the perpetual 'present' of Goloka. <o:p></o:p> We, the Jiva tatastha (simply meaning we have the free will to choose) are expressed there as who we really are without the concept of past or future, that makes us imperishable in our endless body, ALWAYS within that realm of the perpetual 'present'. <o:p></o:p> The eternal present or the forever 'now' is found only in Goloka. What is there is ALWAYS there, meaning we are in Goloka now even though we are dreaming we are in the material creation of past and future. <o:p></o:p> It is there in Goloka or Krsnaloka our perpetual identity, personality and individuality is endlessly serving beautiful Krishna as our perpetual 'svarupa' body (nitya siddha), even if we sometimes forget that fact and 'dream' or 'think' we are in the material world. <o:p></o:p> The paradox here is no one ever really leaves Goloka, they only dream, think and imagine they do by falling out of sync with the 'eternal present' and entering the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within His mahat-tattva creation. <o:p></o:p> The only thing that has changed is one's awareness of 'eternal time' in relation to 'divided time' - hence it is not a division of consciousness but rather a division of time, just like when the concept of mundane time changes while one is dreaming. <o:p></o:p> Actually, when one again becomes aware of their eternal nitya-siddha body in Goloka and the eternal relationship they have with Krishna, it will be as if their baddha-jiva dream state, that has entered the dreams of the sleeping Maha-Vishnu, then taking on the identity of one of His material bodily creations, never existed. <o:p></o:p> On return to the 'eternal present’, it will be as if they never left because nothing has changed in Goloka. <o:p></o:p> It is important to REALIZE that Goloka is a pure devotional place where perpetual loving service to Krsna, happens within the 'eternal present', devoid of past, future, decay and bodily absentees - every living entity is represented there by their permanent 'svarupa' body (also known as the Siddha-jiva) who is them without beginning or end. <o:p></o:p> The material world, on the other hand, actually has NO 'present' at all; there is only past, future, decay, and impermanence. <o:p></o:p> The mahat-tattva is where the living entities can 'sub-consciously' project themselves and experience their own dreamed-up manifestation, created by their own thoughts and dreams. <o:p></o:p> This secondary consciousness, which cannot exist or be expressed in bodily form in Goloka, is called the baddha-jiva. <o:p></o:p> Entering the material world therefore, is not a change of bodies, but rather a change of consciousness where the baddha-jiva is given bodily form by Maha-Vishnu in the restricted realm of past and future where the repercussion is a universe that is perishable and temporary. <o:p></o:p> The 'eternal present' means exactly that, ones 'svarupa' body is always in Goloka even if one is dreaming they are in the mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> What is nitya baddha BODILESS consciousness? What is the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman? <o:p></o:p> The Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Impersonal Brahman is not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather, a dormant state of bodiless consciousness the marginal living entities or souls, in the baddha-jiva condition, develop or attain, once they free themselves from the ethereal and biological material bodies, provided by Maha-Vishnu FROM within his mahat-tattva creation. <o:p></o:p> However, this place is also just a further dream state separate from the mahat-tattva the marginal living entity enters (as baddha-jiva dream manifestation), and is also a temporary state of consciousness one enters. <o:p></o:p> This motionless individual, inactive, dreamless, baddha-jiva consciousness within the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti can also be active or energetic in the mahat-tattva (material creation) . <o:p></o:p> This nitya-baddha inferior self, or the secondary dreaming state of the marginal living entity, is actually a bodiless condition of the jiva until it is provided bodily form or a vessel for expressing their desires, provided by Maha Vishnu within his dream creation. <o:p></o:p> This nitya-baddha bodiless consciousness is the inferior dreaming condition that all marginal living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will to 'dream' of self importance and indulgence. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: <o:p></o:p> "There are many energies, but they have been divided into three principal ones: the external energy, the internal energy, and the marginal energy. We living entities are the marginal energy. Marginal means that we may remain under the influence of the external energy or we may remain under the influence of the internal energy, as we like". "The Journey of Self Discovery - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada <o:p></o:p> In other words, the marginal living entity's secondary conscious projection is known as the baddha-jiva soul within the maha-tattva. <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entity actually has two aspects of consciousness; one is 'eternal form' of sat, cit, ananda, Vigraha or one's perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form (nitya-siddha) that is imperishable and never fades away, due to being eternally established within the 'eternal present' of Goloka, while the other is a non-Krishna conscious dreaming bodiless state (nitya-baddha). <o:p></o:p> The living entities, as their nitya-siddha body, are properly situated within the Lord's internal energy as a perpetual bodily servant that is known as one's perpetual 'Svarupa'. <o:p></o:p> When the marginal living entity misuses their independence and tries to act as enjoyers or lords, they are transferred to the material energy or mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body, but rather, as a secondary dreaming consciousness called nitya-baddha. <o:p></o:p> The Lord has three basic energies: internal, external and marginal. <o:p></o:p> The living entities do not only belong to the marginal energy, they ARE the marginal energy or tatastha sakti that is embodied in their original full constitutional foundation, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position. <o:p></o:p> Tatastha simply means the ability to choose the land and the ocean or Goloka and the mahat-tattva. The marginal is therefore known as "tatastha sakti" <o:p></o:p> The nitya-baddha consciousness is the result of the jiva-tatastha executing its dormant free will to choose between Krsna and their own plans of existence. When the baddha-jiva lower self enters a dormant inactive state of consciousness, they can only enter the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, ONLY after being liberated from the mahat-tattva, which is really and factually the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti, or their own individual consciousness. <o:p></o:p> That means, although we are properly situated within the Lord's internal energy in our 'svarupa' body eternally beyond mundane time and space, we always have the propensity to misuse our independence. <o:p></o:p> This means we may choose to try and act as enjoyers or lords of all we purvey that immediately disqualifies us from being aware of our 'svarupa' body, and instead try to lord it over Krishna's material energy that is under the jurisdiction of the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: <o:p></o:p> "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness." Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, Actually, you are NOT conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream".Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". <o:p></o:p> Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever (conditioned as nitya-baddha in the material world)".Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "You are ever-liberated (meaning in our original and eternal state, we are all nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual but is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (known as the mahat-tattva or material creation that is in one corner of the Spiritual Sky), this is Maya (The cloud is created by Maha-Vishnu and His Wife Maya-Devi, through her powerful s'akti, controls all the bodily vessels occupied by the visiting DREAMING baddha-jivas)". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967 <o:p></o:p> Nothing is lost or regained in Goloka except for our memory and 'awareness' of who we really are. Everything is set eternally there is in a state of the living entities 'full potential originality as a nitya siddha embodied devotee of Krsna or Vishnu', which means ALL living entities or jiva sparks, have a Svarupa body that is eternally unchangable, eternally youthful, eternally original and eternal a person with bodily form sat, chit, ananda, VIGRAHA. <o:p></o:p> If there is no past or future and only the present, then we are all in a perpetual state of originality. Remember, the living entity leaves Goloka not as one's eternal svarupa body, but via their sub-conscious dream, thought and imagination, so just as one's material body never changes while one is dreaming they are a King, ones 'svarupa' body never changes while one is living out their dreams in the material world. <o:p></o:p> The nitya-siddha-svarupa body is locked and secured perpetually within the 'eternal present, which is an eternal state of originality' that has no past and future. This means when one finishes their dreams within the material world and again become 'aware' of their full potential 'svarupa body, it is like waking up from a dream and finding themselves as the body they always were and always have been. <o:p></o:p> "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada explains it this way: "There is nothing to be gained in Goloka, only regained". "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original constitutional position that is called svarupa-siddhi". Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition ), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami <o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur: <o:p></o:p> "However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas." Prema-pradipa, p. 83 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: <o:p></o:p> "Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si-… That is called svarupa-siddhi. Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban <o:p></o:p> Your fallen servant, <o:p></o:p> Gauragopala dasa ACBSP <o:p></o:p>

The day Australia became Krishna Conscious A quarter of a century ago today (June 14 1983) Hari Sauri Prabhu and the Aussi devotees organised the distribution of 1.6 million magazines to go out as a lift out called ‘The wonderful world of Hare Krishna’ in one day that was inserted in all the Australian major Newspapers! To this day, this is still the biggest distribution of magazines in ISKCON's short History. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p>The after effect was even more incredible because not only was our magazine flooding the paper media, but also there were hundreds of radio talk back shows discussing the magazine.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> That night I will never forget because ever Television network around the County covered 'The Wonderful World Of Hare Krishna Magazine insert ' and the effect it had on unsuspecting Australian citizens. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The ABC showed all the Politicians in the Nations Capital in Canberra and there was the newly elected Prime Minister the Right Honourable Robert James Lee (Bob) Hawke reading through ‘The Wonderful World Of Hare Krishna’.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Over the following week there were editorials, more Radio talk back, and two mini documenters on the New Govardhana farm that went nation wide and even ‘Playboy Magazine’ did an article on the benefits of chanting Hare Krishna and eating Krishna Prasadam. </o:p> <o:p></o:p> Further more, Doctor surgeries, Dentists, clubs, eateries, Shopping Malls, Football clubs, hospitals, and even police stations and jails, ALL had the magazine circulating around for everyone to see. They could not ignore it because the magazine was there right in front of them and most picked it up to satisfy their inquisitiveness ”Wow, what is this beautifully presented magazine’ many ‘million’ would ask. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In short, the teachings of Krishna Consciousness reached ALL sections of society on that special winters day, 25 years ago today. June 14th 1983 will forever be a day to remember in the annals of ISKCON’s History of Book distribution.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Amazing letter

How did we come to the material world <TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> It is interesting to understand that when Jaya and Vijaya became demons for three births, they were still Jaya and Vijaya and remained there in Vaikuntha within the ‘eternal present’ while their secondary self-manifestation came here to the material world to act like demons. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> This does not mean their fall was not a real experience because it was, they really believed they were demons but on return to Vaikuntha their departure was no more than a moment. If one can understand the eternal presents of Vaikuntha and the divided time of past, present, and future in the material world, then one can understand, by dent of bhakti and the teaching of Srila Prabhupada, how this works <o:p></o:p> Jaya and Vijaya, as well as ever other jiva tattva in Goloka, can have numerous forms, just as Yasoda has limitless forms, and just as Krsna has so many forms in Vaikuntha, in Dvaraka, and here and there. There are lakhs of universes in the mahat-tattva also, in each cosmos, there is one Vrndavana, and Krsna is there in Vrndavana. <o:p></o:p> We cannot visualize this. An individual may be capable to calculate the stars in the sky or the sands on the earth, but he or she will not be able to praise the charming pastimes of Krsna. <o:p></o:p> It is a fact that the jiva can fall from Goloka Vrndavana in the same way as Jaya and Vijaya did, not as their eternal Svarupa body but as a secondary manifestation that ALL marginal living entities can activate if they choose to enter the material mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> Any liberated soul can also come with Krsna to assist in His pastimes, as Sridama and Subala do. Krsna sends them here only to help the rebellious baddha-jivas return back to their original position in Goloka and again re-establish and regain the memory of who they really are which is their eternal nitya-siddha body. <o:p></o:p> We are all everlastingly Krsna dasa, servants of Krsna, but now we have forgotten Krsna. The jiva can forget Krsna, so what does this actually mean? <o:p></o:p> It means that the jiva’s, now in the material world in their secondary manifestation, were once ‘aware’ they were serving Krsna. Actually, they still are, but have fallen out of sync with the ‘eternal present’ where their true eternal bodily form perpetually exists always engaged in Krsna's service, but now one has forgotten that service. <o:p></o:p> Some incorrectly say, due to them not understanding the concept of the ‘eternal present’, that, “Actually, this is not true, this is not how the jiva enters the material world, by coming down from Goloka as a secondary manifestation of their consciousness”. However, we now understand that this is exactly how the small minority of marginal living entities, enter the material world. Therefore their ideas and the proper understanding of tatastha-s'akti is not fully developed <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada has told us that the vast majority of jiva-tattva’s never come to the material world in a secondary consciousness manifestation (baddha-jiva) to exploit the material energy. <o:p></o:p> The majority of marginal living entities always remain fixed in their constitutional position. They always endeavour to please Bhagavan, and are always favourable to Him. By virtue of the divine sakti, they have the potency to stay permanently ‘aware, awake, alert’ of their eternal nitya-siddha bodily form and their loyalty and service to Krsna. <o:p></o:p> In fact, they have no connection with the material energy whatsoever, in effect, they are oblivious, due to their choice to always serve Krsna, that there is even a deluding influence called Maya, and thus most jivas NEVER come under Her enchantment because they are always absorbed in the bliss of serving their worshipable Lord. <o:p></o:p> So it is in this way they are eternally liberated (Always aware they are nitya-siddha) and are free from material happiness and distress. Their life is Bhakti only, and they are not even cognizant to melancholy, death or fear." <o:p></o:p> Since ALL living reside in the spiritual world of eternal presents in their full devotional potential, devoid of any past or future, Maya stays far from them and does not affect them at all because she has no power in Vaikuntha or Goloka. <o:p></o:p> It is only when those minorities of jivas choose to forget Krishna and the svarupa nitya-siddha body they serve Krsna as, do they enter Maha-Vishnu’s temporary material world and come under the influence and temptations of His wife, Maya Devi. <o:p></o:p>

Sivarama Maharaj is standing behind Srila Prabhupada

So, yam yam vapi smaram bhavam, devotees will think of these things. And what will happen? Devotees will go there, to where these things are. 'Spiderman', 'Indiana Jones', 'Sex in the City', 'The Simpsons', 'The Sopranos',or 'Steven Spielberg'- lokas. So, what kind of Vaishnava devotee are you? Or are you even a devotee? The following is an excellent class by Sivarama Swami It’s a shame that these questions need to be addressed, but there’s a need for it because the phenomena exists, and devotees become bewildered when they see this inappropriate conduct from Vaisvavas. But then, that’s variety in Krishna consciousness. Krishna consciousness doesn’t mean that there are only pure devotees. Srila Prabhupada gave us pure devotional service, as did Caitanya Mahaprabhu, but it means there will also be a whole spectrum of Krishna consciousness practiced by different types of devotees, from very strict and conservative, to the very liberal, accommodating, or those not very faithful to the main principles Srila Prabhupada gave in terms of sad-acara and sadhana. And that’s to be expected. People are individuals, they have different modes of nature, association, goals in life, and the result is that when they come in contact with Krishna consciousness they will practice differently. The objectionable thing is that devotees should not rationalize that a lower variety of Krishna consciousness is OK and is acceptable, no big deal, and we should therefore not change those standards. Rather, we accept that a variety of practice will be there, that some will follow 4 regs, others 3, others 2, in the same way some will be more strict with these things like no TV, no movies, forbidden foods, coffee, etc., and others won’t be. How can we avoid that? We can’t just force that only one type of Krishna consciousness will be followed. But based on Srila Prabhupada’s teachings and books, we should readily accept what the standard is. But regularly watching TV and movies: there are two main defects in this activity, whether they’re done regularly or even occasionally. The first is that this media always includes intoxication, graphic sex life, violence, and gambling. Therefore watching it means to break the regulative principles. What reason do we have that we would go out of our way to observe and watch these activities of Kali-yuga when already it’s difficult enough to stay away from it, when even walking down the street, going into a shop or going out on harinama or sankirtana, these things are bombarding us and challenge the consciousness of a serious practitioner. So why would I want to bring these things into my own home, to give ideas to children? Answer: because people have material desires and they give into them. I’ll come back to that in a moment. The second defect is that anything you see makes an impression in the heart. So the rampant violence, sex, intoxication, bad language, immoral behavior, irreverence for the real values of life, and fairytale worlds like Spiderman jumping off buildings and flying through the air, these make an impression in the heart, and when they do they become a source of meditation, something to meditate on, because these impressions will come out at a later time. Not only as a reflection of the mind but something that creates seeds of material desires in the heart and which will also water existing seeds of desire in the heart. So it is a very detrimental practice. But back to the first point, breaking principles. Initiated devotees vow to follow regulative principles. When referring to brahmacaris and sannyasis in this regard, we say that even in the mind if one contemplates these things he is breaking the principles. But while grhasthas might have license, they only have that within their own marriage situation. They don’t have a license to view sexual activities or these other things. So for them to contemplate it, to view it, to enjoy it: it’s all breaking the principles. How then can an initiated devotee do these things with a clear conscience? And what is the effect of breaking the regulative principles? We commit sin. And by committing sin, we complicate our spiritual lives, entangle ourselves in material existence, and suffer from the results of that sin. By committing sin there’s an effect in the mind, and that is that sinful thoughts linger in heart. They come up like bubbles from the mud and become the source of other sinful desires, which then become the result of further sinful acts. Ultimately what devotees see on TV and in movies, they’ll end up doing. If they see infidelity, they’ll end up doing it. If they see violence or other activities, they’ll do that. When they become bewildered thinking materialism, egoism, pride in the material body is the ultimate goal, they become more body conscious and egotistical. All these things strangle the creeper of devotional service and make one’s devotional life more or less null and void. Why do they do this? Well, obviously because they’re not doing what they should be, which is chanting Hare Krishna and hearing Srimad Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrita. They’re not doing those activities without offense and they’re not doing them enough. And so they don’t have enough spiritual strength to resist the social pressure from those who are doing these things, nor do they have the strength to resist the inner desires that are still there in conditioned souls. So this may be the way of mixed devotional service. OK, so maybe we can say that is the way of broad-based preaching and Krishna consciousness spreading to all kinds of people. What can be done? Some will be like that. But it shouldn’t be passed off as ok, desirable, that it’s no big deal, that it’s conducive to pure devotional service. Otherwise in due course of time we’ll become like other religions whom we criticize for compromising their own values, religions for whom eating cows is no big deal. Recently when I was in the UK there was this issue in the media where some Hindu organization was objecting to the proposal that Hindus don’t eat meat. They were publicly arguing that Hindus are meat eaters. Now maybe it is a fact that Hindus do eat meat, but still to be in a situation where we are publicly standing up in the media and saying that in Hinduism you eat meat when less than 30 years ago 80% of Hindus didn’t eat meat, it’s an indication of how people are willing to change a standard. Everyone has their own choice, but it should be very clear that it’s against Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, that it’s not ok, it’s a compromise and a lowering of standards. And it should be clear that a lower standard indicates a different type of devotee than one who is practicing a higher standard. Even if that devotee who has made so many compromises in his Krishna consciousness is nicer, more polite, and so many other things, at least that’s something on the behavior of sad-acara, and that’s one thing, but where does the mixture of TV and movies and devotional service lead? Krishna says, yam yam vapi smaram bhavam. When you fill the mind with superfluous things, when they’re rampant in the heart, it is inevitable that this will be our consciousness. We won’t be Krishna conscious, we’ll be Spiderman conscious. We will not be Krishna conscious. What will happen? At the time of death we won’t be able to think of Krishna. We haven’t practiced, and our thoughts of Krishna have been subdued by such an oppressive, fast-moving, violent and aggressive media that locks these things in the mind like a Xerox. They’re not just going to go away, they have to be purified and only pure devotion will purify them. So, yam yam vapi smaram bhavam, devotees will think of these things. And what will happen? Devotees will go there, to where these things are. Spiderman-loka. Great. You go there. But how can a real devotee, a real follower of Srila Prabhupada, conscientiously sit and spend his time watching these things, knowing that Srila Prabhupada rose at 1am and toiled in the early hours to give us Srimad Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrita, he sacrificed his life, shortened his life, just so we could purify our consciousness, to put Krishna in our hearts, that we’d be ale to think of Krishna while living in this world and when we leave this world, that when we leave our bodies we will ultimately go to Him. I really hope I never become entangled in such compromising acts: I would consider that I was being unfaithful and ungrateful to Srila Prabhupada, and I hope I am never in a situation where I try to rationalize my illicit and foolishly materialistic behavior in the name of Krishna consciousness. I would not consider that if I was doing these things that I was a Prabhupada man, or the type of man that Srila Prabhupada wanted his followers to be. by Sivarama Swami Hare Krishna

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Sarva gattah <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada is saying that our original and perpetual state of being a nitya siddha bodily servant of Krishna, MEANS never falling down, however he is also saying that the memory of being nitya-siddha can be covered over by the choice to imagine your own existence without Krishna, just like one may go into a day dream in their present material body and dream they are a King, while in the meantime their 'dreaming' material body has not moved. <o:p></o:p> In this way Srila Prabhupada is saying that nitya siddha’s can be covered over only and the memory of being nitya-siddha forgotten, like one forgets their material body while dreaming. <o:p></o:p> What he means by saying nitya siddha's never fall down, is they are always nitya-siddhas just like the sun is always the sun even though it might be covered by the clouds. <o:p></o:p> Nitya siddha means eternally liberated or established, so when a nitya siddha devotee becomes covered, it is like the cloud covering the sun only, under that cover of the cloud, the living entities restricted awareness becomes eternally conditioned or nitya baddha (due to the cloud covering) however the nitya-siddha body, like the Sun, is eternally there behind the clouds, behind the baddha-jiva consciousness.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In fact most devotees in Goloka never allow their awareness of being nitya-siddha be covered by the selfish nitya baddha sub-conscious dream state. <o:p></o:p> Therefore most marginal living entities do NOT allow themselves to be covered by non Krishna Conscious desires that manifest their baddha-jiva consciousness because their desire is to always put Krishna first by being absorbed in serving Him as nitya siddha. Such inconceivable statements are mind-boggling because how is it possible to calculate % of a % in an endless Spiritual creation? <o:p></o:p> So it is important to understand that ALL nitya-siddhas never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha, some however, imagine and dream they do, BUT NEVER AS THEIR NITYA SIDDHA BODY. Most never enter the world of imagination and therefore never experience the shackles of Maya as nitya baddha. <o:p></o:p> Therefore, it is due to the cloud covering we cannot see our real eternal nitya-siddha identity because our awareness is now restricted by that cloud covering or nitya-baddha consciousness. <o:p></o:p> This cloud covering is all we are aware off because it has blocked out the sun. We are not able to see the sun shinning due to the cloud covering the sun. The sun is still there, just as our nitya-siddha body is there in Goloka however; it is not realized because of the cloud cover therefore, we are nitya-baddha. <o:p></o:p> We can’t be nitya-siddha at this time because we cannot see or be aware of that covered identity. <o:p></o:p> Therefore our only present awareness of ourselves is solely nitya-baddha and remains so until we remove the dark cloud covering of material desires by replacing them with devotional Krishna Conscious desires. <o:p></o:p> Then gradually the cloud cover or nitya-baddha dreaming condition is dissipated revealing the sun or our eternal nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily identity eternally serving Krishna. <o:p></o:p> The majority of the marginal living entities or jivas, who are naturally ALL devotees of Krishna in their full potential, never allow their awareness of being nitya-siddha to be compromised or covered by the selfish nitya baddha sub-conscious cloud or dream state that all living entities can activate, due to their unique free will and ability to choose. <o:p></o:p> Such erroneous self-centred desires and dreams only place them in the transitory mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. The living entities natural constitution and perpetual position is serving Krishna, or one of His Vishnu tattva expansions in Goloka or Vaikuntha as nitya-siddha. <o:p></o:p> Therefore most marginal living entities do NOT allow themselves to be covered by non Krishna Conscious desires that manifest their baddha-jiva consciousness because their desire is to always put Krishna first by being absorbed in serving Him as nitya siddha. Such inconceivable statements are mind-boggling because how is it possible to calculate % of a % in an endless Spiritual creation? Srila Prabhupada often emphasized the dream-like quality of our mayik existence because it is simply the dreaming condition of the marginal living entity as their secondary non Krishna Conscious jiva-baddha state. <o:p></o:p> Once we awakened to the real spiritual nature of our consciousness, which is eternally in Goloka as nitya-siddha, the dream-like mayik existence created by our baddha-jiva consciousness will dissolve like the sunlight dissipates the darkness <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – 'So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with Krishna, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada clearly says we in the material condition of existence, is just like a man dreaming. The man forgets himself. He creates a dream identity. And when he wakes from that dream identity, he is once more in his original position. <o:p></o:p> There are two states of existence for the marginal living entity called nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. <o:p></o:p> The free state of is eternally in a Krishna Conscious bodily form and is called the nitya-siddha authentic self, while the non-free state is the nitya-baddha consciousness that is the non-Krishna conscious dreams of the marginal living entity that creates the various dream identities. <o:p></o:p> The nitya-baddha state is only activated when the marginal living entity or jiva-soul chooses to forget their perpetual original identity as a nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha. <o:p></o:p> This eternal abode of Krishnas is beyond the restricted realm of divided time and space only found in the maha-tattva and is the genuine Kingdom of God way beyond the heavenly world within the mahat-tattva (material creation). Three important points to understand<o:p></o:p> Number 1. Many are suggesting we fell not from Krishna’s personal abode but from the Brahmajyoti, the effulgent light that surrounds it. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, yogis who seek the impersonal aspect of the Supreme may merge into that effulgent light which is actually a deposit of unlimited baddha-jiva souls in the dormant or dreamless ‘dream’ status of consciousness, only to fall back later to the material world. Perhaps, then, we originally fell from the Brahmajyoti? Srila Prabhupada rejected this idea. Those in the Brahmajyoti, he wrote, are not Krishna conscious, so they too are fallen. “So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.” <o:p></o:p> Number 2. Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on August 6, 1973 ...73/08/06 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.6 <o:p></o:p> Number 3. Srila Prabhupada- "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

When The Universe Was Dark Many of us appreciate the beauty of nature, we are interested to hear of the wonderful and amazing creatures living in the tropical rain-forests, in the depths of the ocean and even in outer-space. We feel if these natural places are spoiled or destroyed as a by-product of industry it will be a great loss for us and future generations. (Article by Madhudvisa dasa) The Big Bang Theory (BBT) We have all heard it at school in the science class... In the begining there was nothing... and from that nothing came a big bang, caused by no one coming from nowhere... It created all the mass of the universe completely by chance [according to Einstein's Theory]... (Article by Madhudvisa dasa) The Intelligent Designer Recently there has been a debate over whether God is the creator of the universe or that the creation is formed by combination of chemicals, a chance occurrence if you will. (Article by Gadadhara dasa)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually. But when a body is dead we can understand that there is something missing. That missing thing is the soul. In the modern educational field there is no department of knowledge to understand that what is that missing part. There are so many theories, but they are not practical. Therefore we have to understand the soul and its constitution from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gita. Then we can understand our identity actually. And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said that persons who are identifying themselves with this material body, they are not actually human beings. They are counted amongst the asses and cows. So that is ignorance or illusion". From KGO Radio Interview March 12, 1968, San Francisco <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "One who has transcended material good and evil automatically acts in accordance with religious injunctions and avoids forbidden activities. The self-realized person does this spontaneously, like an innocent child, and not because he is thinking in terms of material good and evil". SB 11.7.11 (UG 1.11) <o:p></o:p> I would like to humbly share a personal realization. Today while walking around a shopping centre, I observed so many varieties of human bodily vessels, every time I observed, I thought ‘what a wonderful creation the Supreme Lord has manifested through His Maha Vishnu expansion who has made this amazing maha-tattva material creation.’ <o:p></o:p> I then tried to understand that all of the material vessels, both subtle (ethereal) which includes the heavenly bodies on planets like the Sun and Moon, the ethereal vessels housing souls in the Hellish planets, and lastly, the millions of different biological vessels (species) found in the middle planetary systems, like our earth. <o:p></o:p> All such vessels, I began to see, are actually part and parcel of the mahat-tattva, belonging to Maha-Vishnu who has provided them to the living entity according to their desire and what they deserve (karma) My realization was fascinating, I could see all theses bodies, including the one I am trapped in, for what they really are, as part and parcel of Maha Vishnu's mahat-tattva creation, obtained from Him, beginning with so many other vessels long, long ago, that have all covered or encaged within this material world. I could also see that the illusion will remain as long as we selfishly choose to be absorbed in exploiting the material creation, ignoring Krsna. <o:p></o:p> I observed fat bodies, skinny bodies, ugly bodies, beautiful bodies, old bodies, young bodies, crippled bodies, rich bodies, poor bodies, karmi bodies, devotee bodies – all covering the real identity of every living entity that possesses them. <o:p></o:p> I tried to understand further, as I am now trying to constantly do, understand that we are NOT the outer material body, nor the subtle body from where the gross biological body manifests, realizing that if we are to have any hope of understanding the next step, our spiritual identity, then first we must understand we are not the material bodies provided to us by Maha-Vishnu within His mahat-tattva dreaming creation. <o:p></o:p> To lust after beautiful material biological bodies is actually impersonal because one is attracted to the vessel and not the occupying soul within. <o:p></o:p> Those who lack spiritual strength first exploit their own material body from over eating, over sleeping, self-so called love, earnings spent on making their material body comfortable, dissimilarity due to being so convinced the material body one occupies, is their real identity. <o:p></o:p> That leads to ALL the above being extended to manipulating and exploiting other material bodily vessels for selfish adoration. It is therefore impossible for love to exist based on the mahat-tattva shells or bodily vehicles that all of us have ‘rented’ off Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> So this is what I always try do while shopping or preaching to others about Krsna, I look at all material vessels as the creation of Maha Vishnu whom ultimately IS moving ALL theses bodily objects within His mahat-tattva creation, and that ultimately ALL souls (baddha-jivas) occupying those vessels is the forgetful of the jiva soul who is really an eternal servant of Krishna.

Maya Devi is the wife of Maha-Vishnu whose duty is to make sure no-one disturbs Krsna and His pure devotees. In other words if we want to regain our original Krsna Consciousness, we must pass the test of Maya Deva and eveything she tempts us with. She does this to see if it is really Krsna we want or if we have some hidden selfish agenda. No one can hide anything from Maya Devi

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Sarva gattah Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) This clearly means our nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM, THINK OR IMAGINE WE LEAVE. In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. It is there in the material creation that the baddha jiva's are provided with temporary bodily forms created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky. In this way it is Srila Prabhupada explaining to us in very simple English that we all originate from Goloka. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by suchandra Prabhupāda: You are coming from home. So this is our temporary home. We have got real home. That is the kingdom of God. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Srila Prabhupada -"You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand”. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Some backgound on where this debate began - The above is the correct understanding of how we all came to the material world, this I have understood since 1972 when we travelled around Australia in a double decker bus with Mudhuvisa (then) Swami and Caru prabhu. Caru was with us only for part of the preaching mission to Towns and Villages around Australia however was there when the ‘origin of the jiva’ discussions began. Others on this first travelling preaching mission from Sydney to Cairns were Balarama, Chittahari, Yasamatinandana, Dvaipayana, Ted Spencer, Kuntiboja, Srngi (now Muralidhar_das) Krishna Prema and my self and one or two I cannot remember, lived in the Brahmacari quarters which was the bottom deck of the bus (except for the bus drivers who had a private space upstairs), while the second deck (upstairs) was the Brahmatarini quarters were Ambika, Arti, Kamarupa and Sukla devi-dasi’s resided. It was at 83 Hereford street Gleb Temple , near the Sydney Uni in April 1972 we began our preaching mission. There were 14 of us on the double Decker Bus, the Brahmacari quarters were down stairs and the brahmatrinis quarters were up stairs. The trip went up north visting all Towns to Cains. On the way we chanted on the streets of Brisbane for many days. Brisbane was also having their annual 'festive show' and we chanted at the front gates where tens of thousands of people watched us chanting and some recieving BTG. It was on this bus trip a devotee suggested we came from the Brahmajyoti and started the ‘origin of the jiva’ controversy.That idea was quickly rejected in a letter from Prabhupada that was sent to all Temple Presidents in Australia. The Srimad Bhagavatam classes delved deeply into the souls origin on this bus preaching mission. We new this was a very auspecious time and new what we were hearing where the deep secrets and explanation of the univers and its creator Lord Krishna. We just new we were very fortunate to be there hearing such wonders of creation. Some of us asked 'what did we deserve to hear the Srimad Bhagavatam, that Madhuvisa read from one of Prabhupadas original volumes he brought with him in 1965 to America'. Some speculated we were yogis, mystic's, devotee's and even demons from the Satya-yuga. Madhuvisa laughed and simply said 'It is by the causless mercy of Lord Caitanya and Srila Prabhupada that the seeds of Bhakti are sowed in your hearts. In those days we would chant on the streets for 8 to 10 hours a day. One night at the show grounds we chanted to 10pm because there where so many people. We did this through all the Towns ond cities as we proceeded up north to Cains At Karanda, just ouside of Cains, Madhuvisa lead a blissful kirtan through the hippie community and hundreds of them, most naked, joined in chanting Hare Krishna and dancing. Devotees before this had never visited anywhere outside of Sydney or Melbourne. We were the pioneers at the very beginning of Lord Caitanya's very rare Goldern Age in Kali-yuga. We celebrated Janmastam at a Buddhist colony not far from Karranda; we loaded as many hippies as we could in the double decker Hare Krishna bus, all chanting Hare Krishna and dancing 'on the bus' to the excellent blissful kirtans with Mudhuvisa leading. IT WAS VERY SPECIAL The following day was Vysa-puj and Madhuvisa had lit a candle under Srila Prabhupada’s photo, the aura, bliss, love and security from that photo permeated the entire bus with an amazing mood of reverence and Krishna Consciousness. They were amazing days and there was a childish innocence about those days, In fact we thought Mudhuvisa was old (he was 24 and Balarama was 29). The rest of us where still teenagers. The present generation I don't think realize how young we were in those beginning years of ISKCON. There was also no hanky panky going on, everyone was very sincere, very dedicated and very attached to Prabhupada, I know I was. In those early years we only ate offerings to the Dieties and absolutely nothing else (We had a beautiful photo of the Panca-tattva with a wonderful Photo of Prabhupada at their feet), no-one even dreamed of eating anything unprepared by devotees or even drink soft drinks in those blissful days. Those years were extraordinary. Dwaip cooked up beautiful offerings to Srila Prabhupada while Citta, and Balarama and myself were the Bus Drivers. Yaso and Kuntiboja were the inquisitive philosopher, well, actually we all were. Many times we discussed the origins of the jiva that lead to the famous “Crow-and-Tal-Fruit Logic” letter Srila Prabupada sent to his inquisitive Australian devotees. You will find many devotee's in ISKCON will not discuss this subject because of that letter however, that was then. nearly 40 years ago. I am convience Srila Prabhupada never meant that we never discuss this subject. In fact he has said in other letters we should undertand this subject and that we were previously actively engaged in Krishna Lila in our original constitional position. Actually, we are therefore still in Vaikuntha but are 'consciously' caught up within the past, present and future of the material creation that has covered the 'eternal present' of Vaikuntha and Goloka like a cloud covers the Sun. Also you will find many devotee's in ISKCON will not discuss this subject because of that letter however, that was then. nearly 40 years ago. I am convience Srila Prabhupada meant we never discuss this subject. In fact he has said in other letters we should undertand this subject and that we were previously actively engaged in Krishna Lila. Actually we still in Vaikuntha but are 'consciously' caught up within the past, present and future of the material creation that has covered the 'eternal present' of Vaikuntha and Goloka like a cloud covers the Sun Srila Prabhupada - “Your next question, "Is a pure devotee eternally liberated and if so is he at any time a conditioned soul? We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated? You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned. Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the living entity is not actually conditioned. A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent. Therefore a living entity is called on the marginal state, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. These are very intelligent questions. And I am very glad that you are putting such intelligent questions and trying to understand it. It is very good”. Letter to Aniruddha dasa, Los Angeles 14 November 1968

Gaura-Nitai Srila Prabhupada KI JAI!!

No that is not correct. The three Vishnu's that fascilitate the mahat-tattva of Maha-vishnu - Karanodakasiayi-vishnu, Garbodakasayi-vishnu and Ksirodakasiayi-vishnu (Paramatma), all are expansions of Krishna the original source and cause of all causes. Many Hindu's believe Krishna is the seventh incarnation of Vishnu, that is nonsense and incorrect as the Brahma Samhita tells us When Krishna comes to the material world for sport to kill demons, he manifests as His Vishnu form with the bodily appearance of Krishna (there is no difference) while the original Krishna remains in Goloka Vrndavan and never leaves His pastimes.

An interesting ISKCON pastime I heard recently in Vrndavana about a hippie in 1966 that used to travel around in Ken Kesey’s psychodelic bus dance group, travelling around <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">America</st1:place></st1:country-region> handing out Kool-Aid drink laced with LSD. Somehow one of Srila Prabhupada’s original Srimad Bhagavatam’s was in a small library section on the bus and read by such future devotee’s like Mohanananda dasa. One young hippie on that bus however, was not satisfied in just reading the book; he was determined to find the author of this wonderful Srimad Bhagavatam and was prepared to travel all around <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> until he found this amazing Sadhu. When they reached <st1:State w:st="on">New York</st1:State>, Kesey and the Pranksters visited Leary in <st1:City w:st="on">Millbrook</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State>, at his psychedelic retreat called "The International Federation for Internal Freedom.", it was founded when Leary was fired from <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Harvard</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> for doing research with his students on the hallucinogenic drugs LSD-25 and Psilocybin. This young hippie had had enough of LSD and realized God can NEVER be found in a pill and decided to go on a spiritual quest to India in search of the ‘swami’ who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> </o:p> He then decided to leave the merry pranksters and leave for <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>; he bought a ticket and was on his way to the Kennedy airport. On the way however, he had sometime to spare and went by <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Tompkins</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Square</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Park</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> to see what the acid head hippies were up to. As he went by in the taxi he saw this big crowd and all the hippies dancing, he was curious and told the taxi driver to stop, then went over, investigated, and found an elderly sadu leading the chanting of Hare Krishna. He watched with some curiosity and wondered if the Sadhu he would eventually find in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>, who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam, would be like this Sadhu. Anyway the kirtan stopped and this Sadu began reading from the same book he was reading on ken Kesey’s Bus. Now this young hippie just was even more determined to seek out the writer of the Srimad Bhagavatam seeing this Sadu also reading it. Eventually the reading stopped and this young hippie went over to the Sadhu and said ‘I am also reading this book and I am now just on my way to the airport to fly out to <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>, I am determined to look all over <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> for this Sadhu’. The elderly gentlemen Sadhu chuckled to himself and said to the young hippie ‘I am the translator of this book the beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam, you do not have to go to <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>, I am here in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New York</st1:place></st1:State>” The young hippie was ecstatic and had tears in his eyes. Then Srila Prabhupada, the elderly sadu said ‘Just see, if you are completely sincere and genuine, then you do not have to find Guru, he will find you” <o:p> </o:p> Hare Krishna All glorious to Srila Prabhupada!

An interesting ISKCON pastime I heard recently in Vrndavana about a hippie in 1966 that used to travel around in Ken Kesey’s psychodelic bus dance group, travelling around America handing out Kool-Aid drink laced with LSD. Somehow one of Srila Prabhupada’s original Srimad Bhagavatam’s was in a small library section on the bus and read by such future devotee’s like Mohanananda dasa. One young hippie on that bus however, was not satisfied in just reading the book; he was determined to find the author of this wonderful Srimad Bhagavatam and was prepared to travel all around India until he found this amazing Sadhu. When they reached New York, Kesey and the Pranksters visited Leary in Millbrook, NY, at his psychedelic retreat called "The International Federation for Internal Freedom.", it was founded when Leary was fired from Harvard University for doing research with his students on the hallucinogenic drugs LSD-25 and Psilocybin. This young hippie had had enough of LSD and realized God can NEVER be found in a pill and decided to go on a spiritual quest to India in search of the ‘swami’ who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam. He then decided to leave the merry pranksters and leave for India; he bought a ticket and was on his way to the Kennedy airport. On the way however, he had sometime to spare and went by Tompkins Square Park to see what the acid head hippies were up to. As he went by in the taxi he saw this big crowd and all the hippies dancing, he was curious and told the taxi driver to stop, then went over, investigated, and found an elderly sadu leading the chanting of Hare Krishna. He watched with some curiosity and wondered if the Sadhu he would eventually find in India, who wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam, would be like this Sadhu. Anyway the kirtan stopped and this Sadu began reading from the same book he was reading on ken Kesey’s Bus. Now this young hippie just was even more determined to seek out the writer of the Srimad Bhagavatam seeing this Sadu also reading it. Eventually the reading stopped and this young hippie went over to the Sadhu and said, "I am also reading this book and I am now just on my way to the airport to fly out to India, I am determined to look all over India for this Sadhu". The elderly gentlemen Sadhu chuckled to himself and said to the young hippie "I am the translator of this book the beautiful Srimad Bhagavatam, you do not have to go to India, I am here in New York” The young hippie was ecstatic and had tears in his eyes. Then Srila Prabhupada, the elderly sadu, said compassionately, "Just see, if you are completely sincere and genuine, then you do not have to find Guru, he will find you” Hare Krishna All glorious to Srila Prabhupada!

Europeans thought the world was flat for over 2000 years, then by the late part of the 14th century, a new world was discovered and there were suggestions the world might be round. The Catholic Church condemned such ideas as heresy. During the Dark Ages and the Middle Ages little energy was spent on such speculation, no one was allowed in Europe to think any other way than what the church had taught them however, by the end beginning of the 16th century so many new lands had been discovered with so many different races of people. The church's doctrine of suppression and dictatorial leadership, that had stagnated Europe to the Dark Ages for over a thousand years, were beginning to be challenged in every way. The world was also now proven to be round by the intellectual class in Europe at the time that greatly embarrassed the Catholic Church, but it took over 200 years to convince all the population of Europe that the planet was round. Just like the changes of the world in the 16th century, where Europeans found new lands, from the Americas to South East Asia, meeting so many new races of people, how would the world today in the 21st century handle a something like that happening to our planet? What if one day just like the Native Americans experienced the visiting tall ships of Christopher Columbus in the 1492, we all woke up one morning to find visitors from another planet? Historians have said that the tall ships sitting offshore from where they landed among the Bahamas Islands in 1492, was not at first recognised by the local American Indians, they had seen nothing like it before. At first there brains could not assimilate what was out there, so they ignored it because they could not believe what they were seeing, was it a deception or mirage in the clouds or the waves of the ocean? Only after a few days of this phenomenon the Indians were ignoring, they realized it was not going to go away, so one by one they each began to take more interest of what was out there. One after the other each Indian began to realize these strange objects on the horizon out in the ocean, were real. Only then did they see the tall ships and now believed ‘something’ was out there in the bay that they had never seen before. How would we handle visitors from another earthly world today? We consider ourselves technologically advanced however, to other worldly middle planets; we may be as primitive to them technologically as the American Indians where to Christopher Columbus in 1492? What happened to the American Indians in the 15th century could and probably will happen to our planet sometime over the next thousand years. "Your question about spacemen from other planets; it is stated in the Vedic literature that there are many planets where the inhabitants are more advanced than the inhabitants of this earth planet. So it is not unlikely that such people may have developed space travelling methods. . . . , but this does not mean that such spacemen are necessarily carrying the messages of the Lord”. Srila Prabhupada Los Angeles 14 February 1970

All your quotes have not answered the original topic. Are all living entities eternally nitya-siddha, even while some are presently acting and dreaming as nitya-baddha while forgetful of the perpetual nitya-siddha body in Goloka? Also when we mention there are nitya-siddha’s amongst us, have such great devotee's come to the material world as nitya-siddha to act out a Krishna Conscious role under Krishna's directions? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I remember once Srila Prabhupada said that Naradha Muni (nitya-siddha) comes to the material world and disguises himself with different bodily forms to preach the glories of Krishna. Prabhupada even said he might come disguised to devotees distributing books. My question is it appears that both nitya-baddha's and nitya siddha's come to the material world. Some leave Vaikuntha as their nitya-baddha non Krishna conscious dreaming state while forgetful of their nitya-siddha body, and are therefore placed under the influence of Maha-Maha, while the nitya-siddha devotee's come on a mission from Krishna in an ethereal and biological bodily costume (Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva material creation) under the direct control of Yoga Maya (Krishna’s internal potency)? Is this the correct uinderstanding?<o:p></o:p>

Is this the correct Understanding of the nitya-siddha body and nitya-baddha consciousness? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Month="11" Day="14" Year="1968">November 14, 1968</st1:date>, <o:p> </o:p> So what does Srila Prabhupada mean here? Obviously we are presently eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha) outside of the personal active devotional pastimes of Vaikuntha and Goloka (NITYA-SIDDHA SELF) because we are experiencing existence within the maha-tattva or the tatastha as our dreaming nitya-baddha secondary conscious self. This eternally conditioned state (nitya-baddha) can never enter the active pastimes in the Vaikuntha’s or Goloka just as darkness can never enter the light, in fact there is no such phenomenon. <o:p> </o:p> In this way the nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness is dissolved as one becomes more Krishna Conscious, just as the darkness dissipates as the sun gradually rises. As the the 'eternally conditioned-nitya-baddha consciousness' becomes free from the mahat-tattva's ethereal and biological containers' due to the gradual re-establishment of their original Krishna Consciousness, the 'eternally liberated nitya-siddha' becomes gradually realized. This is what Srila Prabhupada means when he says “We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?… You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated” <o:p> </o:p> Could this means as our nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness dissipates, our nitya-siddha body is gradually re established and realized? <o:p> </o:p> Yes - Through our Krishna Conscious endeavour, even while so called 'eternally conditioned' (nitya-baddha consciousness), we all can re-establish our Krishna Conscious bodily active devotional self in our original perpetual position as nitya-siddha that is without beginning or end within the devotional personal Goloka and Vaikuntha realm beyond mundane time and space that is only found within both the temporary mahat-tattva and the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti (tatastha, Brahma-sayuyja etc). In this way all living entities are originally nitya-siddha and have a perpetual bodily form serving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under–…That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “You have got original relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

"We refer collectively to the essentially ('svarupa') of several things. But there cannot be a single essential attire common to many 'svarupas' as 'svarupa' by definition is strictly particular, belonging to only one thing. If another generality of 'svarupatvas' is admitted to run through many 'svarupas', that one and the other (remaining) 'svarupa' will have to be brought under the purview of another 'svarupatva' in its turn and so on ad infinitum. The difficulty can be avoided only by recognising with Madhwa that the different 'svarupas' are referred to by the same term 'svarupa' to show that each has a 'svarupa' of its own like any other and that no real thing is without a 'svarupa' of its own." (B.N.K. Sharma.1986. Philosophy of Sri Madhwacarya. page 110.) Sankara's conception of consciousness and bliss are that they are qualities of 'Brahman' and not the 'Jiva'. Where as the truth is the other way round, Brahman is the effulgence of Krishna and that effulgence or Brahman IS Krishnas marginal potency or jivas manifesting as either their original perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka, or similtaniously (due to the reality of time and space that exists in the mahat-tattva yet does not exist in Goloka) as their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness that is housed within the mahat-tattva, or proceed after billions of lives embodied to a dormant state of consciousness outside the restraints of the mahat-tattva. In this way ones consciousness can simply becomes a collective part of what we know as the Impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti. Madhwa also states that the 'Jiva' has eternal individuality, possesses a form and a body, and that this is 'swaprakasha', self-illuminating. This although a totally different doctrine from Sankara's is sometimes termed as 'dehatmavada' in Madhwa literature. Madhwa's understanding of the 'Jiva' being 'amshatva', part of Brahman is different from that of Sankara. According to Madhwa the 'amshatva' of 'Jivas' is quite real and eternal. The followers of Sankara interpret the 'amshatva' as being 'kalpanika', imaginary and this being the only possibility that to them is logical (Madhusudan Saraswati, Advaita-Siddhi, page 846; K. Narain. 1986. A Critique of Madhva Refutation of the ffice:smarttags" />laceName>Samkara</ST1:PlaceName> <ST1:PlaceType>School</ST1:PlaceType> of Vedanta. page 315.). Actually Sankara didn't make any doctrine of the 'Jiva', his followers did (K. Narain. 1986. A Critique of Madhva Refutation of the laceName>Samkara</ST1:PlaceName> <ST1:PlaceType>School</ST1:PlaceType> of Vedanta. page 274.). According to Sankara Vedanta the effect, Brahman, the world, and the Jiva is absolutely or exclusively non-different from its effective cause, names, forms etc., which appear to have existence apart from Brahman are all unreal and as illusions have no existence of their own. Innumerable living entities move through varied stages of existence; some become eternally conditioned, some become eternally liberated. When the 'Jiva' rejects the Supreme Lord, he is eternally ensnared by matter; but if he again aspires for the shelter of the Lord, the curtain of 'maya' that separates the Jiva' from his own transcendental identity and qualities is forever removed; he is and immediately restored to his original pure self." (Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Sri Sri Siksastaka - Sri Sanmodana Bhasyam, With Commentary By Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada. sloka 1.) The jivas' are of the higher spiritual nature in actuality, thus in shastra they are either cited as being part of either 'chit-shakti' or 'para-shakti' as in the following example, "There are two scrupulous aspects one is known as essential power (Svarup-shakti) and the other is known as inter-mediatory power ('tatastha-shakti'); again this 'tatastha power is classified as Atomic ('Anu') and phenomenal ('chhaya'); the 'Anu-tatastha-shakti' actually in shastric etymology is known as 'jiva-shakti' ('jiva' soul); sometimes this 'jiva-shakti' also is categorically termed as 'Para-shakti' (superior power) and the phenomenal ('chhaya shakti') is known as 'Maya-shakti' otherwise known as the external potency." (B.P. Yati. 1978. Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Sri Srimad Bhagavata Arka Marichimala. Chapter 10:5. excerpt, page 204.) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> "The 'Jiva' Brings About His Own Misfortune" The 'Jiva' was imprisoned in the illusory, ephemeral kingdom of 'maya' due to his turning away from Lord Krsna. Thus the conditioned soul has brought great misfortune upon himself; that misfortune is first and foremost his reluctance to serve the Lord. 'Anyabhilasita' means the base material desires which, when engaged in the 'karma' and jnana processes, lead to different levels of material enjoyments. Thus his base desires for sense gratification, 'karma' and 'jnana' have deluded the 'Jiva' into forgetting his real 'svarupa' (transcendental identity); they have propelled him into a whirlpool of misery. Under the spell of 'anyabhilasita' he is intoxicated by immediate sen-sual pleasures. Pious activities goad him to yearn for heavenly pleasures; his enjoyment of matter leads to frustration, and so he becomes engrossed in striving to realize the impersonal, non-differentiated Brahman. The 'Jiva's' own eternal desire is to engage in Lord Krsna's service, but the residue of the practice of these three paths has smothered this proclivity and hidden his good fortune. Now he is caught up in the endless pursuit of religiosity, material wealth, and sense gratification; thereafter, being harassed by the frustrations of his own sins, anarthas and lust, he pursues liberation." (Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Sri Sri Siksastaka - Sri Sanmodana Bhasyam, With Commentary By Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada. sloka 2.) <o:p></o:p>

.If one is in an imperishable atmosphere then the very meaning of ‘imperishable’ is no one ever leaves. That imperishable aspect of the jiva is ones eternal ‘svarupa’. Therefore the ‘perishable’ is nothing other than a dreaming condition emanating from ones marginal identity. “The 'svarupa' of 'Jivas' is that they are part of the Lord, manifest for His pleasure, and are totally dependent upon Him… They are eternal, blissful nature, full of knowledge and having an original spiritual form spiritually similar to the Lords” . (B.N.K. Sharma.1986. Philosophy of Sri Madhwacarya. page 110.) Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jaiva Dharma, chapter 15 reads as follows, explaining what imperishable means which is beyond the confines of material time and space: Babaji: The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time. Every event in the spiritual world is ever present. Whatever we speak or describe in the material world is under the influence of material space and material time. therefore, whenever we make statements such as, 'the Jivas were created', 'thereafter the Jivas became bound by maya', 'the spiritual world became manifest', 'there is no aspect of maya in the constitution of the Jiva', material time influences our language. These kinds of statements are unavoidable in our conditioned state. For this reason, no statement concerning the Jiva and spirit is exempt from the jurisdiction of material time. Feelings of past present and future naturally creep in. therefore, while experiencing the import of the descriptions of the spiritual world an spiritual objects, people who are devoted to pure thinking experience the changeless nature of present time. Be very careful in this respect. Giving up the unwanted sense which is unavoidable (due to the influence of material time) try to experience the spirit........ I know at present you will not be able to digest these subtleties so quickly. As the spiritual influence will increase in your heart, so the spiritual understanding will easily increase, distinguishing it from the material conception. You body is inert and so are all the bodily activities, but you are not; you are an atomic conscious being. The more you are able to understand yourself, the more you will experience yourself as superior to the material world. Therefore, even if I explain it and you listen, you will not able to grasp it. The more you awaken your spiritual consciousness by taking shelter of the holy name, the more you will experience the spiritual world." (Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jaiva Dharma, chapter 15.). "We know there is the 'chit-shakti'. This is composed of the eternal associates of the Lord, the 'shakti-tattwa' personal bodily expansions of Krsna and Radha, who by constitution cannot ever fall. So Vrajanatha asks, is it that the 'chit-shakti' 'has created' the 'Jivas' through some transformation of the 'chit-shakti' itself, by which 'chit-shakti' beings are endowed with this marginal nature, a nature which allows them to come under the influence of 'maya'?"(Hrydayananda dasa Goswami. 1996. Our Original Position. page 110.) "Babaji's answer is, 'No, 'chit-shakti' is the complete potency of Krsna. Whatever it manifests (comes about from it - 'ubhava karena') are all 'nitya-siddha' objects."(Hrydayananda dasa Goswami. 1996. Our Original Position. page 111.) The 'svarupa' of 'Jivas' is that they are part of the Lord, manifest for His pleasure, and are totally dependent upon Him. They are eternal, blissful nature, full of knowledge and having an original spiritual form spiritually similar to the Lords'. However despite the resemblance to God's ('bimba'), no two individuals ('pratibimbatvas') being unique and distinctive, but tiny, will bear the same resemblance to the Lord in every respect, such as spiritual attributes, consciousness and bliss. (B.N.K. Sharma.1986. Philosophy of Sri Madhwacarya. page 110.) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada on letter to Australian devotees 1972 - "We cannot say, therefore, that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become the Lord, immediately we are covered by 'maya'. Formerly we were with Krsna in His 'lila', or sport. But this covering of maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore [in the interim] many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant hen one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. <o:p></o:p> It is like a dream: We are thinking it is a very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. To give another example: Krsna's friends were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed. <o:p></o:p> So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness this period is considered a second. <o:p></o:p> Here Srila Prabhupada explains how this condition of illusion is 'very insignificant'. Not only is it insubstantial like a dream, but it is also momentary. Although within the dream unlimited years seem to pass, in reality the dream lasts virtually no time at all, a 'moment' or 'second'. <o:p></o:p> Then Srila Prabhupada offers another example of how a seeming long duration of time can last only an instant. He recalls the story of how the cowherd boys napped under the spell of Brahma (Srimad Bhagavatam 10:13:40.), for only one 'truti' (8/13,500 of a second) of Brahma's time (Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 3:11:14.), while an entire year passed in human time. Srila Prabhupada invokes the relativistic temporal structure of creation to explain how the illusion of the Jiva is insignificant." (Ravindra Swarupa dasa. January/February 1996. BTG, Back to Godhead Magazine. page 19.)

.If one is in an imperishable atmosphere then the very meaning of ‘imperishable’ is no one ever leaves. That imperishable aspect of the jiva is ones eternal ‘svarupa’. Therefore the ‘perishable’ is nothing other than a dreaming condition emanating from ones marginal identity. “The 'svarupa' of 'Jivas' is that they are part of the Lord, manifest for His pleasure, and are totally dependent upon Him… They are eternal, blissful nature, full of knowledge and having an original spiritual form spiritually similar to the Lords” . (B.N.K. Sharma.1986. Philosophy of Sri Madhwacarya. page 110.) Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jaiva Dharma, chapter 15 reads as follows, explaining what imperishable means which is beyond the confines of material time and space: Babaji: The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time. Every event in the spiritual world is ever present. Whatever we speak or describe in the material world is under the influence of material space and material time. therefore, whenever we make statements such as, 'the Jivas were created', 'thereafter the Jivas became bound by maya', 'the spiritual world became manifest', 'there is no aspect of maya in the constitution of the Jiva', material time influences our language. These kinds of statements are unavoidable in our conditioned state. For this reason, no statement concerning the Jiva and spirit is exempt from the jurisdiction of material time. Feelings of past present and future naturally creep in. therefore, while experiencing the import of the descriptions of the spiritual world an spiritual objects, people who are devoted to pure thinking experience the changeless nature of present time. Be very careful in this respect. Giving up the unwanted sense which is unavoidable (due to the influence of material time) try to experience the spirit........ I know at present you will not be able to digest these subtleties so quickly. As the spiritual influence will increase in your heart, so the spiritual understanding will easily increase, distinguishing it from the material conception. You body is inert and so are all the bodily activities, but you are not; you are an atomic conscious being. The more you are able to understand yourself, the more you will experience yourself as superior to the material world. Therefore, even if I explain it and you listen, you will not able to grasp it. The more you awaken your spiritual consciousness by taking shelter of the holy name, the more you will experience the spiritual world." (Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jaiva Dharma, chapter 15.). "We know there is the 'chit-shakti'. This is composed of the eternal associates of the Lord, the 'shakti-tattwa' personal bodily expansions of Krsna and Radha, who by constitution cannot ever fall. So Vrajanatha asks, is it that the 'chit-shakti' 'has created' the 'Jivas' through some transformation of the 'chit-shakti' itself, by which 'chit-shakti' beings are endowed with this marginal nature, a nature which allows them to come under the influence of 'maya'?"(Hrydayananda dasa Goswami. 1996. Our Original Position. page 110.) "Babaji's answer is, 'No, 'chit-shakti' is the complete potency of Krsna. Whatever it manifests (comes about from it - 'ubhava karena') are all 'nitya-siddha' objects."(Hrydayananda dasa Goswami. 1996. Our Original Position. page 111.) The 'svarupa' of 'Jivas' is that they are part of the Lord, manifest for His pleasure, and are totally dependent upon Him. They are eternal, blissful nature, full of knowledge and having an original spiritual form spiritually similar to the Lords'. However despite the resemblance to God's ('bimba'), no two individuals ('pratibimbatvas') being unique and distinctive, but tiny, will bear the same resemblance to the Lord in every respect, such as spiritual attributes, consciousness and bliss. (B.N.K. Sharma.1986. Philosophy of Sri Madhwacarya. page 110.) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada on letter to Australian devotees 1972 - "We cannot say, therefore, that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become the Lord, immediately we are covered by 'maya'. Formerly we were with Krsna in His 'lila', or sport. But this covering of maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore [in the interim] many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant hen one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. <o:p></o:p> It is like a dream: We are thinking it is a very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. To give another example: Krsna's friends were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed. <o:p></o:p> So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness this period is considered a second. <o:p></o:p> Here Srila Prabhupada explains how this condition of illusion is 'very insignificant'. Not only is it insubstantial like a dream, but it is also momentary. Although within the dream unlimited years seem to pass, in reality the dream lasts virtually no time at all, a 'moment' or 'second'. <o:p></o:p> Then Srila Prabhupada offers another example of how a seeming long duration of time can last only an instant. He recalls the story of how the cowherd boys napped under the spell of Brahma (Srimad Bhagavatam 10:13:40.), for only one 'truti' (8/13,500 of a second) of Brahma's time (Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 3:11:14.), while an entire year passed in human time. Srila Prabhupada invokes the relativistic temporal structure of creation to explain how the illusion of the Jiva is insignificant." (Ravindra Swarupa dasa. January/February 1996. BTG, Back to Godhead Magazine. page 19.) <o:p></o:p>

Because Krishna is the Supreme Personality of God and the cause of all causes, He anticipates the choices of His marginal energy when they choose to enter the material creation or mahat-tattva. In this way, for Krishna to be complete, the marginal potency, including their secondary transmitted consciousness, actually make Krishna the absolute-whole or simultaneously one and different (acintya-beda-beda-tattva) It is because Krishna allows individuality, He knows in advance that some will choose to reject Him and their own Krishna conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa-sat-cit-ananda-vigraha body and apt for the secondary option which is the mahat-tattva or material universe. For Krishna to be complete, He creates this secondary option via His Maha-Vishnu expansion (technically Maha-Vishnu is an expansion of Balarama who is Krishna’s brother). The mahat-tattva is created ironically out of love for His marginal vigraha devotee’s because He would rather they choice to love or serve Him than be like a slave or ‘mindless’ servant without free will. Therefore one can stay in Krishna’s Autocratic Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm if they choose, or they can ‘consciously’ enter the impermanent mahat-tattva (never as their authentic bodily form as that body is perpetually part and parcel of the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky). All of Krishna’s marginal ‘sparks’ have the same bodily features like Krishna – sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The marginal potency or sparks emanating from the whole categorically means individual bodily personalities emanating and surrounding Krishna’s Personal bodily form. Sometimes this is compared to a fire from whence those individual sparks come from. It’s only a metaphor, a allegory, a figure of speech, Krishna is certainly not a blazing fire in His Ultimate self and bodily form and neither are the marginal individual bodily personalities impersonal sparks emanating from that blazing fire. Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is often referred to as the energetic, while His marginal servants are known as the marginal energies however, in both cases the original and ultimate appearance of both Krishna (energetic) and His marginal potency (energies) are always individual bodily personalities of Master (Krishna) and servant (marginal individuals called nitya-siddha-svarupa-sat-cit-ananda-vigraha eternal devotee’s of Krishna). In other words every living entity (marginal potency) has an original devotional bodily form that is perpetually serving Krishna in unlimited pastimes within either Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha. As explained, it is important to understand that Krishna’s marginal potency bodily personalities are the Brahmajyoti!! It is from all those perpetual bodily individuals’ forms (vigraha’s), who are always engaged in various pastimes with Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vishnu within the surrounding Vaikuntha planets, that a secondary non-Krishna conscious phenomenon may sometimes ‘consciously’ leave or be projected from their Krishna conscious authentic original bodily self within the imperishable abode of Krishna (Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha). This is how the living entity (a secondary projected non-Krishna conscious self, enters or falls down to the perishable mahat-tattva cloud within one corner of the Spiritual Sky in a inferior non-Krishna conscious state that automatically becomes an Impersonal phenomenon within the Brahmajyoti existing in the mahat-tattva cloud.

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Today we heard the news that our godbrother and friend Vrsa dasa had passed away in Perth, Australia on Monday 6th Aug. at 8.30am. His private funeral was held last Friday. Vrsa is survived in Perth by his wife, his 14-year old son and 19-year old daughter, his 25-year old son and 28-year old daughter, his mother and father, his younger sister, and his eldest daughter, who gave birth to a son 5 hours before Vrsa's death. The following is written by Vrsa dasa, (Dr Wayne G. Moredoundt PhD, Curtin) "I joined the movement full-time in Melbourne, just before the first Australian Rathayatra, in Winter 1972, having travelled (hitch-hiked) from Perth with three friends. They also moved into the ashram, later taking the initiated names of Ganesa das, Atri dasi and Stradisha dasi. We four had been sharing a house at a Perth beachside location and, for some months, had been following the ‘regulative principles’ and chanting 16 rounds of japa a day. I had been aware of Iskcon for a few years before this time, and had chanted the Mahmantra sporadically (under the influence of the Beat poet, Alan Ginsberg) from around 1966-67. Seeing the devotees on the streets of Sydney, and attending my first Sunday feast, in September 1970, had provided further inspiration. I was initiated by Srila Prabhupada at the beginning of 1973, as one of a large group of new bhaktas, in a ceremony in the backyard of the old Sydney (Hereford Street, Glebe) temple. Others initiated at the time included: Ganesa and Sukla (initiated a few days earlier, in Melbourne) plus Balarama, Gaura Mandala Bhumi, Parambrahma, Somendranath (2nd), Stradisha, Atri, Gopikanta, Ramaprasad, Rukmavati, Gopal, Kamarupa, and others, whose names I cannot remember now. I served in Sydney 1973-75 (Double Bay, Bellevue Hill, Drummoyne, Alexandria), then in Melbourne (Burnett Street, St Kilda), where I helped renovate the (then newly purchased) Danks Street property. From 1977, I was at the Sydney temple (Buckingham Street, Surrey Hills); in 1978, I relocated to the newly-purchased Colo River farm (Bhaktivedanta Ashram); in 1984, I lived a few months at ISKCON Auckland; then to New Govardhana (late 1984), where I became headmaster of the gurukula; and returned to Sydney at the end of 1988." "In 1989, I studied law; in 1990, philosophy; both courses taught through the University of Sydney. In 1991, I commenced a B.A. at the University of Sydney, with a double major in History and Religious Studies. Graduated with First Class Honours in 1994, then moved to Perth at the end of that year. In 1995, I completed a one-year postgraduate course in Public History at Murdoch University. In 1996, I was granted a Commonwealth Postgraduate Award and commenced a PhD at Curtin University, through the South Asia Research Unit there. During the next few years, I also tutored in History and Politics at Curtin, while researching and writing my dissertation. In 2003, I submitted my thesis for examination, and was awarded my doctorate sometime after this." I remember the many evenings we discused the teachings of Srila Prabhupada and I thank him for those deep insights into the teachings of Krishna Consciousness all those years ago </TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>