gauragopala dasa

I love this cool photo of Maharaj

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pHrVG06U5MA The above version has both 'war is over' and 'Hare Krishna' deleted - very sweet version though by Celine Dion Hare Krsna, merry christmas or merry Krishna!! http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=I-NRriHlLUk

The spiritual deliverance of the selfish sinful abusive rascals Jagai and Madhai<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> by Krsna Caitanya Das<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here is one of the beautiful pastimes of Lord Nityananda Prabhu:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Deliverance of Jagai-Madhai<o:p></o:p> ***************************<o:p></o:p> Five hundred years ago, Sri Krishna descended as Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in His most merciful incarnation, to deliver the fallen souls of Kali yuga. Principal amongst His associates was Lord Nityananda, Who was none other than Lord Balarama, the incarnation of Anata-sesa. Even though Caitanya Mahaprabhu distributed the love of Godhead freely to any one willing to partake, Lord Nityananda was more merciful and gave His mercy even to unwilling, sinful and atheistic people.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Jagai and Madhai<o:p></o:p> ****************<o:p></o:p> One day Lord Caitanya instructed Nityananda Prabhu and Haridasa Thakur to go to every one's house in Nadiya and request them to chant Krishna"s name. The two great devotees eagerly set forth and began to knock on each and every door with the request, "please chant Krishna"s name, worship Krishna and teach others about Krishna." They were happily received by the pious people, while the envious would blaspheme them. Completely unconcerned by favorable or unfavorable reactions they proceeded around the town.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In Nadiya there lived two very sinful brothers called Jagai and Madhai. Though they born in pious Brahman families, by bad association they had become meat eaters, drunkards, thieves and arsonists. There was no crime that they had not committed, including the most abominable sin of killing cows and Brahmans. The entire town was terrified of these two persons who seemed to be the very personification of all sinful activities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> On the day Nityananda Prabhu and Haridasa Thakur were moving in the town, these two brothers, completely intoxicated were alternatively fighting and embracing each other. After observing them for some time Nityananda Prabhu compassionately decided to deliver them and thus approached them.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Despite the warnings of the town people Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakur, approached the two drunkards instructing them to chant the holy name of the Lord. Hearing these words the two sinners looked up and seeing the two saintly figures roared in anger. They leapt up and ran to catch the two sannyasis. Playing their pastimes, the two devotees fled at the sight of the attacking brothers. Apparently terrified they shouted, "Krishna! Save us!! Govinda!," and ran.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Haridasa complains about Nityananda Prabhu<o:p></o:p> ******************************************<o:p></o:p> While running, Haridasa Thakur proclaimed that all this trouble was because he was in the company of a trouble maker, a charge that Nityananda Prabhu hotly denied. In this way, pursued by the cursing Jagai-Madhai, Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakur, laughed and ran. They finally disappeared into the home Srivasa Acarya, leaving the bewildered brothers searching for them in vain.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The pastimes of these exalted devotees are full of sugar and spice. While they all understood each others exalted positions, they would also have many loving and teasing exchanges. This was specially true for Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Acarya. In this mood, Haridasa went to Advaita Prabhu to complain about Lord Nityananda. He recounted how in the past Nityananda Prabhu would calmly swim the waters infested with crocodiles, or how he would milk other's cows and drink the milk, or steal their butter and yogurt leaving Haridasa to face the angry crowd. When Advaita Prabhu heard about the pastime with the two drunkards, He laughed and commented, "it is all right that these three drunkards should stay together." However in their hearts they knew that Nityananda Prabhu was only intoxicated by the love of Godhead and that Jagai-Madhai were already delivered by His mercy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Nityananda Prabhu attacked<o:p></o:p> **************************<o:p></o:p> In the meantime the two brothers began to reside near Ganga where Caitanya Mahaprabhu bathed. Constantly drunk, they started harassing and terrorizing the devotees. At night, they could hear the sounds of the kirtans coming from the house of Srivasa Acarya and would playfully sing and dance with the melody.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One day while Nityananda Prabhu was returning in the dark He was accosted by the two brothers. On learning His identity, Madhai became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot. When Jagai saw the blood flow from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother. While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation,<o:p></o:p> people ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Hearing that Nityananda Prabhu had been hurt by the brothers, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them. He summoned His chakra which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers. However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Jagai-Madhai delivered<o:p></o:p> **********************<o:p></o:p> Nityananda Prabhu told Caitanya Mahaprabhu that it was Jagai who had saved Him from further harm at Madhai's hand. Hearing this Caitanya Mahaprabhu said to Jagai, "Lord Krishna be merciful to you. By protecting Nityananda you have purchased Me. You may ask any desire you have in your heart. From today on you will have pure love and devotion for Krishna" Hearing this Jagai fell at the feet of the two Lords and grasping the feet of Caitanya Mahaprabhu wept.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Seeing the wonderful transformation in his brother, a remorseful Madhai begged for the mercy of the Lord. However, since he had committed the worst of all offenses, that of attacking a Vaishnava, the Lord did not even consider all his pitiful pleas for mercy. Only after Madhai grasped the feet of Nityananda Prabhu and received His mercy that Caitanya Mahaprabhu agree to deliver Madhai also.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Jagai-Madhai become devotees<o:p></o:p> ****************************<o:p></o:p> Having received the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda, both the brothers became completely transformed. They would chant 200,000 names of the Lord every day, offer every one humble obeisances and constantly berate themselves for their past sinful activities. Madhai in particular was very remorseful at the fact that he had caused physical harm to Nityananda Prabhu and would shed many tears for this. Finally he approached the Lord and begged for some act of atonement. The compassionate Lord assured him that he was completely forgiven, but if he wanted to atone for his other past sins then he could build a bathing place on the banks of the river Ganges to help people take a bath.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Madhai enthusiastically built this place which still exists with the name of Madhai ghata. He would constantly be present there, humbly offering any and all services to devotees. In this way the two brothers spent the rest of their lives singing the glories of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The demigods rejoice<o:p></o:p> ********************<o:p></o:p> It is said that when Yamaraja asked Chitragupta, the demigod responsible for recording the sinful activities of people, how many sins had been committed by Jagai-Madhai, he was told that it would take one hundred thousand scribes one month to complete the record. On seeing Lord Caitanya take all these sinful activities into Himself and deliver Jagai-Madhai, Yamaraja fainted with ecstasy. When he was revived, he began to dance, glorifying the Lord for delivering the most fallen. Attracted by his dancing, Lord Shiva, Lord Brahma, Narada Muni, Sukhadeva Goswami, Indra and other demigods also began to dance in ecstasy at the mercy of the Lord. In this way the heavenly planets, all the way to Brahmaloka became completely immersed in the love of Godhead.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Lessons in this pastime<o:p></o:p> ***********************<o:p></o:p> In this pastime the Lords revealed many instructions for future generations to follow. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> While Jagai-Madhai had committed many sinful activities, they had never offended a Vaishnava. Since Jagai had protected Nityananda Prabhu, Lord Caitanya immediately absolved him of all sinful activities and gave him Krishna prema. However since Madhai hit Nityananda Prabhu, he did not receive this mercy until he was forgiven by Nityananda Prabhu. This is in line with a lesson that Caitanya Mahaprabhu repeatedly gave to His followers that while Krishna can overlook offenses committed against Him, He will take any offense against His devotee very seriously.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In fact while Caitanya Mahaprabhu readily gave the boon of devotion to Jagai, He had previously refused to give the same gift to His beloved mother, Saci Mata, because of a slight offense she had made against Advaita Acarya. Only when she begged and received the forgiveness of Advaita did she became eligible to receive this gift.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Lord also revealed that there are no material restrictions to performing devotional service. Even though Jagai-Madhai were performing the most abominable activities, even though they were unwilling to chant the holy name, they were still delivered. The pastime also revealed that the devotees of the Lord are even more merciful than the Lord Himself. While Lord Caitanya would ignore these two brothers and had nothing to do with them, Nityananda Prabhu still approached them and ultimately delivered them.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The personality of Nityananda Prabhu is most bewildering by material conception. He played the role of an avadhut, one who is completely beyond the material conception of life. So saturated was He with the love of Godhead that He would often loose complete consciousness of His material body and behave in strange ways. However Caitanya Mahaprabhu strongly cautioned about committing any offenses against Him. He emphatically stated that no one can even think of approaching Radha-Krishna without having first received the mercy of Lord Nityananda, the adi-guru or the original spiritual master of the universe. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> All glories to Nityananda Prabhu!<o:p></o:p> All glories to Jagai-Madhai !!

Technically the material body is controlled by the modes of nature, just as the puppet master controls a puppet. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Once we REALIZE it is just playing a role in Maha Vishnu's cosmic dream play, then we SEE the so called offence is just part of the LILA or 'PLAY' to make Prabhupada even more famous.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> See the bigger picture of what is really going on here. I really believe a ‘photo’ being burned would NOT offend Prabhupada; in fact he would chuckle to himself and say <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "AH, NOW WE HAVE GOT THEIR ATTENTION, NOW THEY ARE STARTING TO RECOGNISE US".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The story of Jagai and Madhai is specifically about an offence to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offence <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One day while Nityananda Prabhu was returning in the dark the two brothers accosted him. On learning His identity, Madhai became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot. When Jagai saw the blood flow from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother. While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation,<o:p></o:p> people ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Hearing that the brothers had hurt Nityananda Prabhu, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them. He summoned His chakra, which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers. <b>However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.</b><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It seems none of us have the right to forgive the offenders who have offended Srila Prabhupada because they must seek forgiveness themselves however, in Kali-yuga, these rules have also changed thanks to the causeless mercy of Lord Nityananda. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We must preach intelligently for Krishna. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Doing nothing about ISKCON’s founder's 'photo' being burned is not Prabhupada's way. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Why? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We can tolerate our own sufferings, hardships and offences but we should NEVER tolerate our Spiritual Master being treated this way <b>even if he does see the bigger picture of Lord Caitanya's Golden Age unfolding.</b><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> All Glorious to Srila Prabhupada, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0> Bhakti Purusottama Maharaja so lovingly reguested - "But my humble request to all devotees around the world is that they kindly do not relax their prayers, chanting, and kirtans on hearing this news. The doctors are giving no medicine, as there is nothing to give and no surgery is possible. That means the only improvement we see now is due ONLY to the medicine of prayers from the devotees around the world, and the chanting of the holy names. Every little step towards improvement that Maharaja makes is fully dependent on how seriously devotees are chanting and praying. This is the only way he will recover". </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->I find this statement by Bhakti Purusottama Maharaja very interesting, inspirimg and very, very personal. After nearly 40 years of aspiring to be a servant of Srila Prabhupada, I am now just beginning to understand PERSONALISM. As the Supreme Personality of Godhead (the personification of Personalism), Krsna always tries to please His PURE devotees, just as His dear humble prideless devotees try to please Him. Therefore, Krsna's discission is ALWAYS based on the reciprication with His dedicated sincere non-materialistic Devotees. So this is why the prayers to Prabhupada and Krsna are so important from those truely aspiring to unconditionally serve Krsna's PURE devotees, because it is those wonderful selfless prayers that win the favour and attention of Krsna as the 'Nectar of Devotion' teaches. Krsna is not impersonal as the foolish impersonal 'Swamis. yogis and Sanyasis portray, He does everything for His sincere devotees and NEVER makes a discission alone, Krsna is never alone. We rightly say everything is in Krsna's hands, yes, that is true, but His discission is never made alone, it is always made in the association of His pure loving selfless devotees and frankly, that discision between Him and His devotees is really inconcievable to our small conditioned minds!! But Prayer to the Lord does work if we pray with the desire to bring a massive Krsna Conscious revolution to this mundane world dominated by exploitation and sense gratification. Such prayers WILL help wonderful devotees like Jayapataka Maharaj heal and again preach EVERYWHERE. We must always remember that Krsna can even put an elephant through the eye of a needle to please His dear sincere devotees. Krsna therefore, is always under the control of His pure selfless austere merciful devotees and rewards them accordingly. Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

I find this statement by Bhakti Purusottama Maharaja very interesting, inspirimg and very, very personal. After nearly 40 years of aspiring to be a servant of Srila Prabhupada, I am now just beginning to understand PERSONALISM. As the Supreme Personality of Godhead (the personification of Personalism), Krsna always tries to please His PURE devotees, just as His dear humble prideless devotees try to please Him. Therefore, Krsna's discission is ALWAYS based on the reciprication with His dedicated sincere non-materialistic Devotees. So this is why the prayers to Prabhupada and Krsna are so important from those truely aspiring to unconditionally serve Krsna's PURE devotees, because it is those wonderful selfless prayers that win the favour and attention of Krsna as the 'Nectar of Devotion' teaches. Krsna is not impersonal as the foolish impersonal 'Swamis. yogis and Sanyasis portray, He does everything for His sincere devotees and NEVER makes a discission alone, Krsna is never alone. We rightly say everything is in Krsna's hands, yes, that is true, but His discission is never made alone, it is always made in the association of His pure loving selfless devotees and frankly, that discision between Him and His devotees is really inconcievable to our small conditioned minds!! But Prayer to the Lord does work if we pray with the desire to bring a massive Krsna Conscious revolution to this mundane world dominated by exploitation and sense gratification. Such prayers WILL help wonderful devotees like Jayapataka Maharaj heal and again preach EVERYWHERE. We must always remember that Krsna can even put an elephant through the eye of a needle to please His dear sincere devotees. Krsna therefore, is always under the control of His pure selfless austere merciful devotees and rewards them accordingly. Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

I have fond memories of Jayapataka Maharaj from 1978 and 82. He instructed me to contact all the media for the 1982 Mayapur festival and when a local TV station came to interview him, he froze and whispered in my ear ‘I'm camera shy’. At the time, it was quite hilarious but eventually he did a brilliant interview.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /> What impressed me was his humility and total dedication to Prabhupada. Actually, it is because of devotes like him a fallen soul like me is still around and desires to somehow, someway, always serve ISKCON. Yes, death is certain for all of us. Today or tomorrow, there is no escape for any of us. This tragic event again reminds us that the bodily vessel we are in is fragile and can break down at any moment. Are we ready for death? Do we really understand that the material body is not who we really are? And that it is only a temporary container that carries the soul or life force that is our factual identity? Now is the time to remember that the self is not the material body but rather an eternal servant of Krishna. All glorious to Jayapataka Maharaj, from your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa

The materialistic Indian Government will never see the ethereal world there on the moon where souls have ethereal vessels instead of biological bodies. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> They also cannot see, experience or register sub-space material matter with gross material instruments designed to enhance the biological senses X-ray camera aboard Chandrayaan to eye the Moon<o:p></o:p> 9 Oct, 2008, 1604 hrs IST, AGENCIES<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> LONDON: A sophisticated X-ray camera made by scientists and engineers from the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council (STFC) is set to launch <o:p></o:p> into space on October 22nd aboard the Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft - India's first mission to the Moon. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The camera - C1XS - was designed and built at STFC Space Science and Technology Department in the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is an X-Ray Spectrometer that will measure X-rays to map the surface composition of the Moon which will help scientists to understand its origin and evolution, as well as quantifying the mineral resources that exist there. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> C1XS was developed in conjunction with the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It employs new technology to make a compact, lightweight, sensitive instrument that can measure the abundances of chemical elements in the lunar surface, by detecting the X-rays they absorb and re-emit. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> C1XS will work by looking at X-rays from the Sun, which have been absorbed by atoms in the lunar soil, then re-emitted in such a way as to reveal the chemistry of the surface. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The spectrometer is sensitive to magnesium, aluminium and silicon X-rays. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> When the solar X-ray illumination is bright, for example during a solar flare, it may also be able to make measurements of other elements such as iron, titanium and calcium. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> To make accurate measurements of the surface elements it is essential to measure the X-rays being produced by the Sun. C1XS has an additional detector system to measure these X-rays called the X-ray Solar Monitor (XSM), which is provided by the University of Helsinki Observatory, Finland. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Chandrayaan-1 is the first lunar mission from the Indian Space Research Organisation. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is designed to orbit the Moon and carries radar and particle detectors as well as instruments that will make observations in the visible, near infrared and X-ray part of the electromagnetic spectrum. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> According to Dr Ian Crawford from Birkbeck College, who chairs the C1XS Science Team, "There is still a lot we don't know about the Moon. Accurate maps of the surface composition will help us unravel its internal structure and geological history." <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Among other things, this will help us better understand the origin of the Earth-Moon system. We will also be able to learn more about what happened on the Moon since it formed and how and when it cooled. By peering into its craters, we may even be able to see below its crust to the material underneath," he added.

Pusta Krishna Prabhu was Srila Prabhupadas personal servant in the mid 1970s, he answers this question - "OK. Now here it comes. I am amazed at how foolish and stupid I am, and I must say in our youth when we had Srila Prabhupad with us, we sometimes asked many foolish questions to Srila Prabhupad. Some of those morning walks…You may recall that decades ago there was a plane crash in the Andes Mountains of South America. Some of the dead human victims, due to the cold weather, became the only source of food for the few survivors. Hence, out of necessity, they turned to canabalism. So, you guessed it, some of us pressed Srila Prabhupad to give an answer to us regarding what he would do if placed in the same situation. We could have asked any number of questions about Bhagavat Dharma, etc. but numbskulls that we were, we pressed His Divine Grace for an answer. In my presence, I heard him say that if it were necessary to survive, he would also have partaken as the other survivors did. We all know that Lord Shiva drank an ocean of poison, that Sri Krishna as the Universal Form, Virata Purusa, devoured all the warriors on the battlefield of Kurushetra, sparing only the Pandavas. It is clear that vegetarianism is not the goal of Krishna consciousness. Rather, to serve Krishna favorably, one can offer vegetables (patram pushpam phalam) to the Lord for His pleasure. Krishna gives us these foods in the mode of goodness to prepare and offer, and to eat, for our benefit. His desire is our advancement in purification, so that we can return to the spiritual world, our eternal home. You gotta love it. We were young, enthusiastic fools, but Srila Prabhupad still did not chastise us over this question. He considered and gave the answer based on necessity of continuing to keep body and soul together for the service of Sri Guru and Krishna. We know from the Srimad Bhagavatam, jivo jivasya jivanam, one living being is the food for another living being. Only by offering with love and devotion to the Lord, does it become possible to take karma-free, His prasadam. We are thus not simply promoting vegetarianism, but rather, as you all know so well, Krishna consciousness. Please forgive me for bringing all of this up, but who knows how long we shall live, and when we have the experience of the transcendental judgement of Srila Prabhupad, share it. Sincerely and even embarrassed, Pusta Krishna das Copied from the article - CLICK HERE - Even if we have to eat meat

Which means there is no past or future in Vaikuntha because that transcendental service is eternally present. This is a paradox to our materially conditioned mind Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>The way I understand this from reading Srila Prabhupada's books is that the eternal present means exactly that. In Vaikuntha there is no past or future Where as in the material world the present instantly turns into past. This is the point Gauragopala dasa is trying to make He is comparing the 'eternal present' of the Krsnaloka with the so called present of the material world. In this comparison, there is no present in the material world because the present in the material world is actually the past. Isn't this a fact? What is the NOW, the present, is now the past. Hence, there is only the reality of past and future in the material creation because the present is always slipping into and becoming the past What is the nature of material time? The material world is for ever changing, so which events are future, which present, and which past? Future events become present, present events become past, and past events sink further and further into the past. Hare Krishna </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Srila Bhaktivenode Thakur "Because in the spiritual world there is no past or future, whatever exists there exists in an eternal present". Jaiva-dharma That eternal present does not exist in the material world because what ever we experience at present immediately becomes the past therefore, technically, on one hand, there is no present in the material world. Whatever act we perform now is immediately a past event. However, theoretically on the other hand, for us to perform self-centred actions, be it good or bad, there is that flickering passing moment of the present. Hence on this platform in the Jaiva-dharma, material time is explained as past present and future <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

<TABLE style="mso-cellspacing: 1.5pt" cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"> The wonderful Hindu invasion of ISKCON Melbourne </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Devotees celebrate Janmastami 2008 Indian Hindus are populating ISKCON Temples in the West in a way never seen before over the last 42 years. This is happening all over the world at a massive rate and is not a phenomenon as some suggest. The fact is, as India becomes a wealthier Nation, we can only expect more and more students to leave India and attend Western Educational institutions as well as many more arriving from India to become citizens of other countries. Alsowe are seeing that many of these students eventually take up residency in Countries like Australia. As a result, India "Hinduism" has increased 153% just in the last 4 years in Australia! We have also seen in resent years that some of those students have moved into the ISKCON Temples and have taken up the life of a Brahmacari>/b> We are all living in interesting times. As the world becomes more and more like a Global Village, due to technology, we are seeing a massive movement or the travelling of the Wolds population of population never before seen in recorded history. Already the most popular Nation on the planet who speaks the English language, is not England, America, Canada or Australia, it is India whose enormous population is on the move. At the Melbourne Australian ISKCON Temple on the weekend, there were 12,000 people of which 98% where Indian Hindu’s, Sikhs and even some Indian Muslims, celebrating Janmastami (Lord Krsna’s appearance day). The other 2% were of European background From the perspective of a white Australians like myself, this was truly an amazing Janmastami like no other experienced in ISKCON Melbourne's history. There was a queue of people, mostly Indian Hindus, that went from the front gate of the Temple for two blocks all waiting to enter the Temple, I have never seen anything like this in Australia.. It was truly fascinating to watch as those in different parts of the queue were having their own kirtan while waiting to see the beautiful Deities of Radha Ballabha and then honour delicious Maha-prasadam. I felt very privileged to be apart of and witness this truly amazing event of Janmastami in 2008 and thought how Srila Prabhupada would be so pleased that ISKCON was providing the facility to worship Krsna in every corner of the planet. This is a very auspicious historical event that is happening now and has been unfolding for the past 42 years. There is a famous saying that history is never recognized in its own time. What Srila Prabhupada achieved in the mid 1960s, will eventually be recognized as the most significant event who planted the seeds of a coming bonafide spiritual Movement that will inundate the entire World. As we were watching the vast queue of people slowly making their way into the Temple, I mentioned to some young Brahmacaris, of who most are of Indian origin, that they must never forget why Srila Prabhupada came to the West in the first place. We must understand His Divine Grace came first to America to give Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and cause of ALL causes, to EVERYONE regardless of race, colour, political persuasion, or religion Srila Prabhupada further wanted to influence ALL the age-old branches of so called Hinduism and bring them back to the original essence and cream of Vedic teachings, The beautiful Bhagavat Purana or Srimad Bhagavatam. In the Caitanya Caritamrta, it is stated that the essence and conclusion of all Vedic texts is the Srimad Bhagavatam. This message was brought to the West by Srila Prabhupada in 1965, and then taken back to India by Prabhupada and with his ‘dancing white elephants’ in 1970. This was a name Prabhupada used to describe his Western devotees he had brought with him to India for the purpose of building ISKCON Temples all over India. In this way, ISKCON would help rejuvenate and re-establish the worship of Krsna, the original cause of all causes, Lord Caitanya and the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra meant for this age of Kali yuga to all those of Hindu background and bring about a spiritual revolution within India. It was further emphasised, as we watched this massive Hindu invasion of Melbourne Temple on Janmastami day, that we must not just preach only to the Indians Hindu’s, who are coming on their own accord anyway due to Krsna being part of their ancient tradition. We, including those of Indian birth, must also be determined to preach to all others regardless of religious or cultural backgrounds. Krsna or God is for everyone and is in every living beings heart. What ISKCON is offering to all the Hindu’s who are taking citizenship in Australia, is the basic foundations of the faith of their birth, however, the brahmacaris were reminded to keep up the mood of Srila Prabhupada and preach to EVERYONE regardless of race or culture and keep attracting those of Western background and follow the disposition of Srila Prabhupada. Here is an interesting story in regards to demigod worship. In 1974, I personally was the pujari who performed puja to Ganesha at ISKCON’s Spiritual Sky incense and clothing company in Melbourne for around four months. All the devotee workers would attend the puja as instructed by the then manager of Spiritual Sky in Melbourne, Ugrashava Prabhu. At the time, I was also dressing the small Radha Govinda Deities at the Temple and afterwards would go down town to Spiritual Sky to perform the Ganesha puja When Prabhupada came to Melbourne for Rathayatra in 1974, he had heard about our worshiping of Ganesha and performing puja to him, and called for Jayadharma Prabhu and myself to come to his room. Jayadharma Prabhu was the Australian General Manager of Spiritual Sky at the time. Srila Prabhupada told us immediately to stop this worship of Ganesha with Prabhupada humbly adding, “Our ISKCON properties are NOT for demigod worship, our devotees are to exclusively worship Radha Krsna, Gaura Nitai and Balarama, Subhadra and Jagannatha, and to also celebrate other various Vishnu tattva’s like Lord. Ramachandra etc though, our main focus is worshiping Radha and Krishna. We always offer proper respects to all the demigods. We must always know however, that no demigod is equal to or above the Supreme Lord Our ISKCON temples are known as Hare Krsna or Radha Krsna Temples, this is what we want people also in India to understand. Even on our Spiritual Sky incense packet there is Radha Krsna” Srila Prabhupada then paused for a moment, then emphasised again the central status of his movement “Our ISKCON devotees exclusively worship Radha and Krsna and of course Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu” And then Srila Prabhupada finished his talk to Jayadharma Prabhu and myself by saying in very simple straightforward English. “Why worship the demigods when they all get all their power from krsna anyway? Then Satsvarupa Maharaj, who was also in the room, quotes from memory - “Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures. (Bhagavad Gita 7:20.) Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.” (Bhagavad Gita 7:23.) So obviously, our worship of Ganasha at Spiritual Sky came to an abrupt end Hari Bol, All glorious to Prabhupada Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Yes, this is happening all over the world, it is not a phenomenon because, lets face it, the teachings of Lord Krishna is something all Indian Hindu’s grow up with. And now India is becoming wealthy, many are settling outside of India<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> At Melbourne ISKCON Temple, there were 12,000 people of which 98% where Indian Hindu’s, Sikhs and even some Muslims I met. There was a queue of people that went from the front gate of the Temple and went for two blocks, I have never seen anything like this ever in Australia, and it was truly fascinating to watch.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I felt very privileged to be apart of and witness this truly amazing event of Janmastami in 2008 and thought how Srila Prabhupada would be so pleased <o:p></o:p> This is a very auspicious thing that is happening however, I told the Brahmacaris, of who most are of Indian origin, that they must never forget that Srila Prabhupada came to the West to give Krsna to ALL races and cultures. We must not just preach to the Indians, to the converted, but preach to EVERYONE regardless of race or culture.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It disturbs me a little that some Temples sell Deities of Ganesh and other demigods and encourage such worship. In 1974, I personally was the pujari who performed the worship of Ganesh at Spiritual Sky in Melbourne for around four months set up by Ugrashava prabhu. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Then when Prabhupada came to Melbourne he called for Jayadharma Prabhu and myself. J.D was the Australian manager of Spiritual Sky at the time.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada told us immediately stop this worship of Ganesh and that our ISKCON Temple devotees are to worship Radha Krsna, Gaura Nitai and Balarama, Subhadra and Jagannatha and to celebrate other Vishnu tattva’s who appear in the material world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada told us “Our ISKCON devotees worship Radha and Krsna” <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And then explained in very simple straightforward English <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Why worship the demigods when they all get all their power from krsna anyway?<o:p></o:p> I find your posts interesting reading Suchandra Prabhu Hari Bol , your fallen Servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP<o:p></o:p>

Krsna says, "Not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of the Lord".<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p> OK This is a very good point Suchandra prabhu. So how do we understand how free will fits in to all this? As a devotee of Lord Krsna the cause of all causes, you will understand this. Lord Balarama's expansion Maha-Vishnu is the creator of the maha-tattva or material world, He can see past present and future. He sees the journey of the arrow from where it begins, how it travels and where it ends. In the meantime however, the living entity experiences the reality of free will where everything to them to be NOT known on another their level of mundane time and space in the mahat-tattva.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> From the viewpoint of each embodied baddha-jiva trapped in the restricted material world, they DO experience free will WITHIN the material body they possess, ACCORDING to desire, and karma that may appear to them that the actions of man creates the wars and peace etc in the material world. However, on a higher level of understanding, everything is following a plan (the dreams of Maha Vishnu) that is known by Maha Vishnu and not known by the embodied jiva who enters His dreams and plays out those bodily roles, hence as Krsna says, "not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of the Lord".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So the answer is, there is always free will for the marginal living entity to choose peace or war influenced and directed by their own desires and Karma that are experienced and lived out within vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu. Such 'vessels' are His creations and NOT the living entities, they manifested by Maha-Vishnu's dreams that are actually a real reality but are only temporary. Therefore, everything within the realm of past and future in the mahat-tattva is also known by the creator of the material creation, Maha Vishnu because they are His dreams (Who ultimately is an expansion of Lord Krsna, the cause of all causes) This is not easily understood but my point is we do originally have free will to love or serve Krsna or ignore Him and chase our own plans of grandeur If we choose to ignore Him, then we act out our desires within Maha Vishnu's stage drama of the material world, playing out a part or role that simultaneously suits our desires within His dreams.

Another time at the Melbourne City Square in 1972, we put on a drama performance of Jagai and Madai showing how these two aparadhis became saints by the mercy of Chaitanya and Nityananda Prabhus simply by chanting the Holy Names <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Upananda and Nataraj Prabhu's played the part of Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakura who went from door to door and brought a portion of the ocean of love of God­head to every home. Some persons appreciated the request of the Lord so much that they immediately began chanting Hare Krishna, while others promised to do so later on. In this way, their preaching was very effective. However, during their preaching they happened upon two drunken brothers names Jagai and Madai. These brothers were the lowest among men; indeed, there wasn't a single sinful ac­tivity they had not performed. <o:p></o:p> Lord Nityananda thought that if He could deliver these drunken rascals then Lord Caitanya's fame would be broadcast far and wide. Therefore, He approached the rogues and requested them to chant. Jagai and Madai flew into a rage and began chasing Lord Caitanya’s messengers with the intention of harming them. Later on, Lord Nityananda mercifully arranged to meet the two drunks again, on the bank of the Ganges. Once again He requested them to chant, but one of them threw a piece of broken pot at the Lord, cutting His head. <o:p></o:p> The other drunk tried to restrain his brother for the protection of the Lord. In the mean­time, Lord Caitanya heard about this incident and came run­ning to the spot. He immediately called for His Sudarsana cakra (his disc weapon). <o:p></o:p> His intention was to kill the rogues but Lord Nityananda explained about the good qualities of the brother who tried to help Him and Lord Caitanya softened. Lord Nityananda, by His all-merciful desire, delivered the two drunken rogues to the lotus fret of Lord Caitanya, and they could under- stand that Lord Caitanya had saved them by His causeless mercy. After this, Jagai and Madai became purified and were accepted as the dear associates of the Lords <o:p></o:p> The play was going well, Sanaka had got the help of a young hippie in the crowd to burst out and act out the part of Jagai who throws a piece of broken pot at Lord Nityananda played by Nataraj. <o:p></o:p> Both acted their parts so well that it attracted two passing Police officers thought it was a real violent assault. They saw Nataraj fall to the ground with what looked like blood (it was actually toato source) from his head. The young hippie playing the part of Jagai would then run to the end of the city square, then return, the problem was, the two police officers thought it was real and chased the young hippie with guns drawn and Sanaka chasing the Police yelling "It's only a play, it's only a play!!'<o:p></o:p>

On the fourth day of our fast, in the evening, as usual, food with the written message ‘blessed food’, was passed to us, it was toasted bread. Usually we would just push it aside but this time, due to feeling the pangs of starvation, Kurma, who also was a excellent cook, picked it up and wondered if they made the bread in the jail or if it was brought in from outside. At that moment, a guard looked through the peep whole, saw Kurma with the bread in his hand, and yelled out,’ They are now eating, the monks have broken their fast!’ Today, 36 years later, we can now look back and see the historical importance of it all. Although, back then we did have a sense that we were pioneers doing something very special and unique at the very beginning of Lord Caitanya's new world religion (Sankirtan Movement). Yes, we were Australian pioneers of the Hare Krsna Movement and had this sense that Prabhupada’s ISKCON creation would eventually captivate ALL the world. We didn't just believe it, we new it. We new that gradually ISKCON would mature to become selflessly pure and committed to Kord Caitanyas Sankirtan all over the world, starting a Golden Age of Spirituality in every Nation on the Planet. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Quickly news got out that our fast was suposedly broken however, by this time, our fate had already been sealed. The few days we had fasted had already attracted the attention of important political leaders going right to the top of levels Parliament. Many letters to the Editors of major newspapers, along with talk back radio shows, had demanded we be allowed to freely practise our religion on the streets of Melbourne.. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Also, there was a public outcry by Television Actors, Musicians and Artists, even a song written about our imprisonment by the famous musician Matt Taylor entitled ‘Krishna Loves You too’ that later went on his ‘Straight As A Die’ Album in 1973. In this way, the Minister of Prisons, Brain Dixon was compelled to act; he had now personally taken an interest in our case. He actually came to Pentridge with his secretary and spoke to us, then complained to the Prison Warden that these young boys should not be in this Jail. He immediately ordered our release. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Outside the Jail, there was a blissful kirtan lead by Madhudvisa, and then the guards opened the gates and released us. I clearly remember Cittahari Prabhu hugging us with tears of ecstasy running down his checks, his ecstatic emotion was very moving and also bought tears to my eyes. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This was only the very pioneering beginning of out struggle with the Melbourne City Council, that would go on for another three dreaded years. Melbourne was a very conservative City back then, tucked away 'down under' a long way away from the rest of the World. Even though the Government Minister Brian Dixon and the majority of the public was on our side, many City Councillors were determined to ban us from the streets. Keep in mind, back then in Australia in 1972, we still had in place the ‘white Australia policy’, which meant it was very difficult for anyone of colour to take up residency or citizenship here. And here we were introducing Krsna Consciousness to the conservative Australian public <o:p></o:p> When Srila Prabhupada eventually came to Melbourne a year later, the Minister of ‘Prisons and Housing and Sport’ Brian Dixon, came to see him and Srila Prabhupada thanked Mr.Dixon for releasing his Spiritual children from jail. I remember that Srila Prabhupada preached to him and his lady friend very sturdily about the philosophy of Krsna Consciousness.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So eventually as the years passed, we did eventually win our struggle. The Council wrote off the money in an agreement that included us legally chanting on the streets. To this very day, we have never been harassed since. Some years ago, the then Mayor of the Melbourne City Council would often have lunch at Gopals Restaurant that is directly across the road from the City Hall. Also, one final note, many years later, in the mid 1980s, I ran into the Council Officer we humorously called Kamsa and 'square jaw'. He was with his son and had long ago retired. He was very apologetic explaining that no one back then could work out how we all ticked. He then said he admired the many devotees who stood up for what they believed in, finishing our conversation by saying, <o:p></o:p> “My Son is a student at RMIT and often visits Gopals Restaurant, I don’t think I’m a bad person, I was just doing my job. You know, I did read some of those books we confiscated and also heard your Spiritual Leader speak at the Melbourne Town Hall. It took me awhile to understand, but I now see his teaching are giving direction and understanding to so many young people today who follow his example.” We shook hands, I said Hare Krsna and he replied 'Hare Krsna' The mercy of Lord Caitanya can deliver ANYONE, all we have to do is sincerely ask for His mercy. <o:p></o:p> The cartoon below appeared in the Sun Newspaper, Melbourne Australia's biggest daily in 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <!-- Album Navbar --><!-- BREADCRUMB START --> <TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Here are the words to Matt Taylor’s song ‘Krishna Loves You Too’ that was released as a single in 1973<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Things are getting bad when you can’t practise your religion, Walk through the streets, giving all the love you can to Krishna. Elohim, God, or Allah, the name doesn’t matter Love is a commodity you can’t put a price on, People who love life give to one another,<o:p></o:p> ‘Cos God's in me, God’s in you.<o:p></o:p> Yes, City Councillors, Krishna loves you too! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> When you go to church on Sunday to hear a sermon<o:p></o:p> They pass round the plate, are you telling me it’s begging?<o:p></o:p> Is God a one-day affair, the next day you don’t care?<o:p></o:p> Krsna people make the city streets a temple <o:p></o:p> What’s wrong with living your religion every second<o:p></o:p> If God’s in me, God’s in you?<o:p></o:p> Parking attendants, Krishna loves you too. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I remember Christians thrown to the lions,<o:p></o:p> Because their faith was seen as defiance.<o:p></o:p> But now I see Centurions in Blue, ain’t nothing new.<o:p></o:p> Religion’s not exempt when it comes to revolution<o:p></o:p> Each step along the way is plagued by persecution, <o:p></o:p> Still, God’s in me, God’s in you.<o:p></o:p> Mr Policeman, Krishna loves you too. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Salvation Army playing on the corner, <o:p></o:p> Turned-on our folks in another era, but now I see<o:p></o:p> God remains the same, forms of God have changed.<o:p></o:p> Now you’ve heard my story, just forget your fear, <o:p></o:p> And chant ‘Krishna’ every day <o:p></o:p> And your world will ’come clear<o:p></o:p> ‘Cos God’s in me, God’s in you.<o:p></o:p> Yes, every human being, Krishna loves you too. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> (Krishna, Krishna, shine your light on me.....)” Kurma Prabhu being dragged away to jail for Chanting Hare Krishna on the streets of Melbourne Australia in the early 1970s<o:p></o:p> Hari Bol, By your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa

The Pioneering years of Wonderful Struggle in ISKCON, the year is 1972 In April 1972, the Melbourne City Council in Australia began a Campaign to try and move the Hare Krishna devotees away from the City streets. This struggle with the Council would continue on for another three years. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Not only were we now continuously harassed on the streets by Council, we were also harassed in our own Temple with middle of the night Police raids looking for devotees who had never paid their fines for Chanting on the streets, distributing books and performing drama plays in the City square.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Upananda Prabhu (Srila Prabhupada’s first initiated disciple in Australia) was first approached by the Melbourne City council in April of 72 about chanting in the streets and fines placed on our Sankirtan Van; Upananda humbly explained to these gentlemen that everything belongs to Krsna. He strongly told them, in the mood of Srila Prabhupada, that they should be assisting and allowing the devotees of Lord Krsna to park freely while we performed Kirtan or chanting Hare Krsna through the streets of the City of Melbourne and performing Drama plays in the City square. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Council officers couldn’t believe what they just heard. With a look of complete bewilderment at Upananda’s totally fearless bold proposal, the Council officers angrily said “Are you on drugs, you must be on something, I’ve never ever heard anything so preposterous!” Upananda in his always-calm layback gentle voice replied “No, we don’t take any drugs, we don’t need that nonsense because we chant Hare Krsna and what I suggested, you should all seriously consider, you can even chant with us if you like during your lunch break”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Hearing what they considered a smart ‘so and so’ answer, they ordered Upananda to immediately get the devotees to cease chanting on the City streets, stop performing drama plays that depict the wonderful past times of Lord Caitanya and His devotees, and stop parking illegally. Of course, that never happened. Eventually as the harassment intensified, we nick named the head Council officer ‘Kamsa’ because of his determination to get rid of the Hare Krsna devotees. He looked really mean to us with his ‘square jaw’ that became a second nick name for him amongst the devotees.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In those days, in-between chanting on the streets, and distributing Back To Godhead Magazine, we would put on colourful plays in beautiful costumes during lunchtime in the city square or at the Melbourne University. These Dramas would attract huge crows, sometimes hundreds of people however; we were always ready for the Council or police to pounce. One time we had a big fire yugna (sacrifice) in the City Square to perform a devotee marriage in view of the public. We started the fire, began chanting various mantras, attracting a big crows then all of a sudden, the police, fire brigade, and Council Officers came from all direction nevertheless, we all got away, including bride and groom.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Over the next few months however, many devotees did get caught and went to jail over the Councils so-called illegal street chanting and Dramas that were simply beautifully glorifying God. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Back in those days, we had devotees chanting eight hours a day through the city streets, even while other devotees were putting on plays at the Uni or City square, In both situations, we were always dogging City Council officers and Police. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In spite of this, nothing could stop us, we new we had Srila Prabhupada guiding us, we were therefore determined to practise our civil right and publicly glorify God no matter how determined the Council were in trying to stop us. We had Krsna on our side. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> As a further protest, as earlier explained, we also refused to pay any our traffic fines that our Van accumulated everyday. We would continue doing this until the Council allowed us our 'human right' to glorify Krsna on the streets of Melbourne with out harassment from the Council Officers and the Police. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It got to the point where EVERY Council officer looked for our Van during the day as depicted in the cartoon.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, for the next three years, they just kept giving us traffic tickets that we refused to pay and fines for chanting (Sankirtan) we also refused to pay. So every day they chased us in cat and mouse style pursuit, locking up those they caught for 'chanting Hare Krsna' on the streets or performing Dramas or plays. Eventually we would accumulate $60,000 in traffic fines and thousands of more dollars in 'chanting on the street' fines.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> On another occasion in late 1972 that for the first time, attracted enormous media coverage, Kurma Prabhu ACBSP and myself were caught and arrested for chanting Hare Krsna in the City; I was playing mrdunga drum and Kurma leading with cartels. In a surprise show of heavy aggression, the police and City Council Officers swooped on our party of 14 brahmacaris and matajis, devotees ran in all directions but Kurma Prabhu and myself were slowed down due to protecting the clay mrdunga and carrying large Krsna Books. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Most of the time I would get away from ‘Square Jaw’ and his Council cronies, as I was very athletic in those days however, on this occasion we got busted and dragged away to Jail. This was my second visit to jail within two months for chanting Hare Krsna and Kurma’s first.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> At Police Headquarters, Kurma and I were questioned and refused bail and spent the night in the City Watchhouse (jail). The Police were, for some reason, very annoyed at us and wouldn’t provide bail due to what they called, ‘not cooperating’. The fact was, we did cooperate. They separated us for an interview and we answered their questions honestly. The officer who interviewed me, asked my name, I replied “Gauragopala dasa”, spelling it out slowly for him to write down. “That’s a long name” he replied. I thought to myself, Wow, you think my name is long and chuckled under my breath, ‘you’ve heard nothin yet’<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> He then asked me for my father’s name, “Do you really want to know that “ I answered <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Yes, we haven’t got all day, just give me his name,” The officer demanded. So slowly, I began to give my fathers name to him so he could write it down as I was spoke, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Jaya om Vishnu-pada paramahamsa parivrajakacharya ashtottara-shata Sri Srimad His Divine Grace Abhay Charanaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada" and at the end in a louder voice I shouted "ki jaya!" <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The officer looked at me with this dumb surprised annoyed look of bewilderment, thinking I was being smart so and so and disrespectful to him however, I kept repeating that this WAS my fathers real name in full. In the end the officer just gave up and threw us in jail<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The next morning we went to court, we refused to pay the fine, and were sent straight to Pentridge prison for a 10-day sentence. As we were being taken, away Cittahari Prabhu told us that Madhudvisa Prabhu ACBSP said we should make a stand and austerely fast<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, as a further protest to let the Council know their laws in this case, were unjust, Kurma and I refused to eat their boga and began a fast.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I also remembered an encouraging quote from the American Civil rights leader Martin Luther King at who was assassinated four years earlier; he was a hero to me before I met Srila Prabhupada, King once said, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law’. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Anyway, the prison authorities never separate us and locked us in the same cell. We chanted with our fingers like the way we do the gayatri mantra because they had confiscated our beads however, they did allowed us to keep our devotee clothing. I scratched on the wall ‘Krishna’s devotees were hear, chant Hare Krishna and be free’<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Within an hour, food was pushed through a small opening at the bottom of the door, knowing our vegetarian diet, they presented us with boiled potatoes, peas, beans and pumpkin with an added written note from the prison cook, ‘blessed food’. We put the food aside and refused to eat it.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the meantime, back at the Temple, Cittahari and Sanaka Prabhus were getting phone calls from the media and were told that as long as we are in jail, we would protest by fasting.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The interested by the media was very supportive; also believing it was unjust to throw us in jail for something we strongly believed in, agreeing with Cittahari that there was no harm to anyone chanting Hare Krsna on the streets. For the first time, our imprisonment attracted the attention of the public <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The next day an article appeared on page three, a stand out page in all Newspapers with the heading ‘Two Hare Krishna devotee’s fast in Jail for their right to publicly glorify God’<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the meantime, at the jail, we were escorted down for breakfast, which turned out to be a little comical. Radio talk back been debating our plight and many prisoners had listened to this on the prison Radio, so, on seeing us, nearly all of them stood up in a tongue in cheek jester of respect, with some saying in a singing mood ‘Hare Hare Krishna Krishna’ with a few imitating our dancing.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Again, Kurma and I refused to eat Breakfast, and offered it to other prisoners with a quick ‘Hare Krsna’ offering before giving it to them. The food hall full of prisoners then went into a roar with prisoners cheering, some again singing Krishna Krishna. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It maybe hard to believe with hardened criminals that no one was rude to us or offended or threatened us while we were in prison.</B> It was truly an amazing experiences. We had heard other devotees had problems but on this occasion, you couldn’t get a ‘nicer’ bunch of blokes who all rooted for us to fight on and win our freedom to chant the name of God publicly. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, for the few days, the Prison Guards just kept us in our cell, only bringing us out for breakfast and lunch, which we refused. At night our Supper was pushed through the opening in the bottom of the door, always with the written note ‘Blessed Food”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the meantime, a debate was going on in outside the prison walls due to the huge media interested Some members of the public were concerned about our health due to fasting, after all we were just young teenage boys at the time <o:p></o:p>

And long, long, long before all that, they were with Krsna in Goloka The teachings of Srila Prabhupada are the teachings of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - “The position of the jiva IS a part of the tatastha-sakti that can enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position”. Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 101 <o:p></o:p> Those who choose to misuse their freewill fall to the material world and they are therefore imperfect because they gave up their perfect position as nitya-siddha by choosing to forget that ‘eternal body. Therefore, by dent of their selfish imagination, they enter the material creation. <o:p></o:p> Bhaktivinoda Thakura - “The imprisonment of the jiva began when the jiva forgot his position as the eternal servant of Sri Krsna. This forgetfulness is the original offence of the jiva and is the root of all the jiva’s subsequent offences.” Jaiva Dharma in Nitya Dharma, part 5 –<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “He has fallen means he has given up the service of Krsna.” Tokyo on April 20, 1972 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Giving up the service to Sri Krsna is due to freewill which leads to more forgetfulness due to the choices one makes due to that free will. There are other aspects of freewill, but giving up service means giving up our love to Krsna, or we want to serve in another way that is not compatible in the spiritual world. <o:p></o:p> Some devotees seem to think that this discussion of the “Fall, no fall of the Jiva” started after Prabhupada’s disappearance but that is not a fact. <o:p></o:p> In the early 1972, Madhudvisa had to deal with the issue in Australia while travelling around preaching on a Double Decker travelling Temple that I was also personally on and the Crow and Tal Fruit Logic letter is a result of that exchange with devotees who thought we came from the Brahmajyoti. The letter has typed parts, Prabhupada also added his own handwritten notes, and he signed the letter by hand. Madhudvisa has the letter. <o:p></o:p> In the 1972, Siddhasvarupananda Swami was preaching that the jivas came from the Brahmajyoti and Srila Prabhupada told him not to preach that in his temples. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Your last question ‘How is the soul degraded (by lust, anger and greed) when it is transcendental to the body? letter to Caturbhuja Dasa, L.A., 5-9-73<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Doesn’t that imply that the soul has changed? ‘No. The soul never changes, but due to his tinyness, he may become forgetful of his relationship with Krsna”. letter to Caturbhuja Dasa, L.A., 5-9-73<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “The spiritual quality of the spiritual spark has not changed but he has forgotten his spiritual nature, bewildered by the imperfect desire to become equal or greater than Krsna.” letter to Caturbhuja Dasa, L.A., 5-9-73<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Most of the verses from Brahma Vaivarta Purana are showing how a jiva can go to Vaikuntha or Goloka but unless one’s devotion is FULLY developed he will fall back to this material world due to lack of chit (knowledge) strength. <o:p></o:p> Nevertheless, eventually he/she will return and stay permanently in Vaikuntha/Goloka, regaining his/hers authentic svarupa bodily identity that is actually permanently there in Goloka, even if one forgets this fact. <o:p></o:p> Such comments seem inconceivable, but are they? Actually, they are easily understood when one ‘realizes, by dent of bhakti, what the eternal present actually means’. In other words, our perpetual body is permanently locked, protected, and secured in the eternal present because there is no portal of past or future for it to ever leave. Therefore if there id fall down, it is only consciously via ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams, never as ones original body. <o:p></o:p> Now that wasn’t too difficult to understand was it? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Verses in shastra cleary state, that the ones who do not fall from Vaikuntha are referring either to jivas who fell originally and are now reinstated, and generally won’t fall again, or to those jivas who never fell to begin with. <o:p></o:p> Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur clarifies the point in Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 101 <o:p></o:p> “The position of the jiva IS a part of the tatastha-sakti that can enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position”. <o:p></o:p> And Srila Prabhupada says in a similar vein on a morning walk: <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa - So we can come to the spiritual world and return? <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada - Yes. <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa - Falldown? <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada - Yes…. He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. (Cheviot Hills Golf Course-5-13-73, L.A.) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada stressed the verse: Mahaajano yena gatah sa panthaa - one must follow in the footsteps of the Mahajanas <o:p></o:p> Mahabhaarata, Vana Parva, 313.117. And who is speaking these verses from Brahma Vaivarta Purana? <o:p></o:p> They happen to be Mahajanas. <o:p></o:p> Narayana Rsi is talking to Narada Rsi about what Yamaraj spoke to Savitri (Mother of the vedas). Brahma also joins in later. So, their statements carry weight. <o:p></o:p> So, for our Brahmajyoti-Vadi friends (no fall avadis and no dream avadis) what will they do now?<o:p></o:p>

Trying to offend my Spiritial Master or me with your conceit and drivel is not going to work. Your argument is with Prabhupada, not me. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada is the one who said we have come down from Vaikuntha many millions of years ago. Lecture August 6, 1973 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> You remind me of the debate others were having on another thread and Beggar bagging the dream –avadis, as he called them. Eventually though he began to realize the difference between the ‘eternal present’ in Goloka, that has no past or future and the material creation, that has no ‘present’, only past and future. Many have realized that if Goloka is an eternal imperishable place, then we are there right now and always have been there, we just have to realize and stop 'dreaming' we are in the material creation. <o:p></o:p> It is interesting to understand that when Jaya and Vijaya became demons for three births, they were still Jaya and Vijaya and remained there in Vaikuntha within the ‘eternal present’ while their secondary self-manifestation came here to the material world to act like demons. <o:p></o:p> This does not mean their fall was not a real experience because it was, they really believed they were demons but on return to Vaikuntha their departure was no more than a moment. <o:p></o:p> If one can understand the eternal presents of Vaikuntha as well as the divided time of past, present, and future in the material world, then one can understand, by dent of bhakti and the teaching of Srila Prabhupada, how this works. <o:p></o:p> Jaya and Vijaya, as well as ever other jiva tattva in Goloka, can have numerous forms, just as Yasoda has limitless forms and just as Krsna has so many forms in Vaikuntha, in Dvaraka, and here and there. There are lakhs of universes in the mahat-tattva also, in each cosmos, there is one Vrndavana, and Krsna is there in Vrndavana. <o:p></o:p> We cannot visualize this. An individual may be capable to calculate the stars in the sky or the sands on the earth, but he or she will not be able to praise the charming pastimes of Krsna. <o:p></o:p> It is a fact that the jiva can fall from Goloka Vrndavana in the same way as Jaya and Vijaya did, not as their eternal Svarupa body but as a secondary manifestation that ALL marginal living entities can activate if they choose to enter the material mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> Any liberated soul can also come with Krsna to assist in His pastimes, as Sridama and Subala do. Krsna sends them here only to help the rebellious baddha-jivas return back to their original position in Goloka and again re-establish and regain the memory of who they really are which is their eternal nitya-siddha body. <o:p></o:p> We are all everlastingly Krsna dasa, servants of Krsna, but now we have forgotten Krsna. The jiva can forget Krsna, so what does this actually mean? <o:p></o:p> It means that the jiva’s, now in the material world in their secondary manifestation, were once ‘aware’ they were serving Krsna. Actually, they still are, but have fallen out of sync with the ‘eternal present’ where their true eternal bodily form perpetually exists always engaged in Krsna's service, but now one has forgotten that service. <o:p></o:p> Some incorrectly say, due to them not understanding the concept of the ‘eternal present’, that, “Actually, this is not true, this is not how the jiva enters the material world, by coming down from Goloka as a secondary manifestation of their consciousness”. However, we now understand that this is exactly how the small minority of marginal living entities, enter the material world. Therefore their ideas and the proper understanding of tatastha-s'akti is not fully developed <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada has told us that the vast majority of jiva-tattva’s never come to the material world in a secondary consciousness manifestation (baddha-jiva) to exploit the material energy. <o:p></o:p> The majority of marginal living entities always remain fixed in their constitutional position. They always endeavour to please Bhagavan, and are always favourable to Him. By virtue of the divine sakti, they have the potency to stay permanently ‘aware, awake, alert’ of their eternal nitya-siddha bodily form and their loyalty and service to Krsna. <o:p></o:p> In fact, they have no connection with the material energy whatsoever, in effect, they are oblivious, due to their choice to always serve Krsna, that there is even a deluding influence called Maya, and thus most jivas NEVER come under Her enchantment because they are always absorbed in the bliss of serving their worshipable Lord. <o:p></o:p> So it is in this way they are eternally liberated (Always aware they are nitya-siddha) and are free from material happiness and distress. Their life is Bhakti only, and they are not even cognizant to melancholy, death or fear." <o:p></o:p> Since ALL living reside in the spiritual world of eternal presents in their full devotional potential, devoid of any past or future, Maya stays far from them and does not affect them at all because she has no power in Vaikuntha or Goloka. <o:p></o:p> It is only when those minorities of jivas choose to forget Krishna and the svarupa nitya-siddha body they serve Krsna as, do they enter Maha-Vishnu’s temporary material world and come under the influence and temptations of His wife, Maya Devi. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness." Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, Actually, you are NOT conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967 Srila Prabhupada -"Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> h Srila Prabhupada rejects the ideas of those who preach the 'impersonal Brahmajyoti origin that claims that the marginal living entity is originally in a dormant state (a plain sheet of consciousness) from where one can develop and then use their free will to choose either Vaikuntha or the mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Many today in other Vaishnava sects may follow that misunderstanding however, it appears to me they have incorrectly used the word 'tatastha' to describe the jiva's impersonal dormant origin state after its so called creation from this 'plain sheet of consciousness'.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They claim the jiva’s originate from the brahmajyoti, which is living and growing claiming that within the brahmajyoti, their stability is somehow disturbed and progress begins. From no separation, separation begins. From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units grow. And because the jiva is conscious, it is now capable of free will. So, from the marginal position they choose either the side of exploitation in the mahat-tattva or the side of dedication or service to Krsna in Goloka. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada clearly rejected that impersonal idea that the jiva springs into existence from the dormant Brahmajyoti and told his devotees NOT to preach it in his Temples'. <o:p></o:p> They have impersonally described jiva tatastha as manifesting first from a dormant state to become 'tatastha', meaning that now the living entity exists, it now has the ability to choose due to free will and can only then be called tatastha-sakti due to being created, or coming into existence, from the all pervasive impersonal Brahmajyoti.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They claim the living entity is born from a plain sheet of consciousness and becomes the jiva- tatastha however, their interpretation of the word ‘tatastha’, that foolishly and incorrectly describes this independent nature of the jiva only to manifests after it’s birth from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, is clearly rejected by Srila Prabhupada.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Their idea that the living entity manifests from the impersonal Brahmajyoti and then moves into the position of ‘tatastha sakti’ after it is born from the impersonal Brahmajyoti is nonsense. The fact is we all ‘sub-consciously’ came down from Vaikuntha millions of years ago from where our eternal Svarupa body is perpetually present and NOT the impersonal Brahmajyoti.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So clearly their idea that our original beginning manifested on the border, in-between the land and the ocean (meaning Goloka and the material world) is incomplete and rejected by Srila Prabhupada because factually, there is no beginning or origin (coming into existence) of the living entity. Tatastha is the eternal position of the living entity which simple means the free will to choose Krsna or the mahat-tattva<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It's therefore clear they do not understand the concept of the 'eternal present', where the full possible bodily expression and potential of the jiva tatastha is eternally found within the perpetual 'NOW' of Goloka. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We, the Jiva tatastha (simply meaning we have the free will to choose) are expressed there as who we really are IN OUR FULL MARGINAL POTENTIAL without the concept of past or future, that makes us imperishable in our endless NITYA-SIDDHA SVARUPA body, ALWAYS within that realm of the perpetual 'present'. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This eternal present or the forever 'now' is found ONLY in Goloka. What is there is ALWAYS there, meaning we are in Goloka RIGHT NOW even though we are dreaming we are in the material creation of past and future.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

What nonsense. No one new the essence Srila Bhatisiddhanta's Gaudiya mission than Srila Prabhupada which is proved by his achievements. We would not be having this discusion if it was not for Srila Prabhupada. You would not know a thing about Krsna if it was not for Srila Prabhupada The proper understanding of how we have ALL come down from Krsnaloka actually comes from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.43 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta – “When he (the marginal living entity) forgets his service of Krsna he is at once deflected by the attracting power of Maya in this world.” Purport to text 44 of Brahma Samhita <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p>Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. 4.29.83.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>Srila Prabhupada – “The human form of life offers one a chance to get out of this entanglement simply by re-establishing the lost relationship between the living entity and the Supreme Lord”. Sri Isopanisad 13 Purport <o:p></o:p> We have fallen from Krsnaloka due to the CHOICE to do our own thing, and simultaneously forget Krishna and our own 'svarupa' body in the process. <o:p></o:p> First, there is choice, then that choice puts us 'in' Maya and we completely forget who we really are (An eternal nitya-siddha devotee of Krsna). <o:p></o:p> It is straight forward understanding, we are all originally from Krsnaloka and came to the material world in our false ego mundane dream state (baddha-jiva) some millions of years ago. <o:p></o:p> When Prabhupada CLEARLY says 'you and me and EVERY other marginal living entity' are already there in the spiritual sky, he clarifies that by saying 'relationships with Krsna’ in Krsnaloka, meaning our svarupa body is eternally there, but our memory of who we are is presently covered by our own selfish plans and mistaken desires. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish (revive, regain, remember, re-establish). It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there… Srila Prabhupada - "So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material. Try to understand”. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. (Anology only) Krsna has three varieties of energy" Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109 <o:p></o:p> It is important to correctly understand how we all originally came down from Vaikuntha, by clearly understanding the following of the marginal living entity (jiva-tatastha) and their 'eternal' nitya-siddha body as well as the baddha jiva's sub-conscious state is activated and enters the material creation. <o:p></o:p> The three energies of Lord Krishna are - <o:p></o:p> Superior - Krishna and His unlimited expansions. Within the immensity of Krishna’s perpetual abodes is also where the marginal living entity (jiva-tattva) in their perpetual svarupa form reside serving Krishna or a Vishnu expansion. <o:p></o:p> It is important to understand that even though they are associating with the superior energies of Krishna, they are never one with the Krishna's superior energy like all of the Vishnu-tattva expansions are. <o:p></o:p> The realm of the superior energy also incorporates the individual independently thinking jiva-tattva as well because they are of the nature of Superior energy in as much as they are also eternal living entities, however, they always remain independently marginal living entities or jiva tatastha. <o:p></o:p> The word tatastha IS the marginal living entity, WE are all tatastha-jiva, meaning every jiva–tattva (jiva-tatastha) can be on ‘this side’ (remembering their eternal nitya-siddha always situated in the ‘eternal present’ of Goloka) or ‘that side’ (nitya-baddha consciousness that enters the material creation or mahat tattva) due to free will and choice. <o:p></o:p> This means the choice ALWAYS exists to serve Krishna as OUR real perpetual bodily identity in Krsnaloka, or chase our mistaken desires of grandeur IN THE maha-tattva (material creation). <o:p></o:p> The concept and perception of tatastha therefore, is certainly NOT a place, region, zone, sector, expanse, but rather describes the jiva-tattva’s nature and ability to choose between two regions. <o:p></o:p> Tatastha-s’akti also means the constituency nature of all marginal living entities that collectively are eternally able to choose their own existence. <o:p></o:p> This clearly means tatastha describes the living entities capability of being, either in the ‘eternal present’ of Krsnaloka that is without the mundane time expanse of past or future. Or in the world of imagination within the past and future of mahat-tattva (MATERIAL WORLD) that has no 'present' <o:p></o:p> Marginal - Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - “The position of the jiva IS a part of the tatastha-sakti that can enjoy, cease to enjoy, and go back to his original position”. Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 101 The living entities or jiva-tatastha's (of whom their full potential is nitya-siddha in Goloka whose bodies are always present their due to no past or future) are perpetually independent and eternally have free will to remember who they really are or dream their existence within the material creation. <o:p></o:p> This means they have the choice to be with Krishna as who they really are (nitya-siddha) or manifest their own imaginary world as nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva. Having choice (jiva-tatastha) is what it really means to be in-between the Superior andinferior potencies of Lord Krsna. One chooses either Krishna's perpetual devotional creation OR Maha-Vishnu's temporary DREAM creation. <o:p></o:p> Inferior- The mahat-tattva or lifeless material energies, that include the ethereal and biological vessels or costume bodies the baddha-jiva wears. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada CLEARLY rejects the idea we spring to consciousness from a so-called dormant Brahmajyoti in-between the Krsnaloka and the mahat-tattva. He says long, long, long, long before that we were with Krsna Prabhupada says in many pkaces that originally, which means eternally in this context, "We are all originally Krsna Conscious devotionally active living entities in Radha and Krsna's perpetual pastimes in Krsnaloka". <o:p></o:p> Frankly, I am not interested in devotees who preach the nonsense impersonal Brahmajyoti viewpoint, simply because such views deny the true facts that we ORIGINALLY come down to the material world from the pastimes of Radha and Krsna in KRSNALOKA. And Prabhupada told his disciples not to preach such nonsense in his ISKCON Temples.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) is the most recent Maha Bhagavat of the Gaudiya Vaishnava parampara (disciplic succession). <o:p></o:p> Therefore Srila Prabhupada, as he is effectually known, is the bonafide representative of all those previous Acharyas whose understanding and teachings, found in his books, letters, classes and morning walks, are of the highest order and accepted as the final conclusion of sadhu, shastra and Guru authorized that represents the understanding of ALL previous Acharyas. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada’s conclusions on all points of siddhanta are non-different from the disciplic succession. In other words, if anyone can definitively tell us what the conclusion of the previous Acaryas was, it is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. <o:p></o:p> In fact he was the only disciple of his Spiritual Master who successfully understood the ‘universal’ preaching mood of his Spiritual Master, clearly explaining we are not Indian, American, Australian, European, Russian, Chinese, African, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist but are spirit soul beyond all those bodily designations. <o:p></o:p> If one cannot understand the chain of disciplic succession that enables us to appreciate all the Vedas that the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition is based on, beginning with Krishna, then it is pointless for any arguing on this subject matter. The best one can do is get them to eat Krishna prasadam or food offered to Krishna and simply chant Hare Krishna. <o:p></o:p> Hare Krsna All glorious to Srila Prabhupada</o:p>

I don't think theist wanted his thread to be hijacked Anyway the batton may have been past to the West 40 years ago but if one attends an ISKCON Temple today in 2008, one will see that the batton of responsibilty has certainly been passed back to the Indian community. I call this the second wave of devotees, so many Indian and visiting Students worshiping Lord Caitanya, Radha and Krsna and Jagannath Subhadra Balaram . I told one Indian boy that now it is up his generation to get the young Western boys and girls to take time away from their X-Boxs, Play Stations, I-Pods, Cell phones, Plazma screens and computors and study the Srimad Bhagavatam and chant Hare Krishna. Within 10 years there will be more Sannyasis and Gurus of Indian origin leading ISKCON than those of Western origin. All glorious to the Indian community who have now taken the ISKCON batton and are becoming the new face of ISKCON all over the world. All glorious to Srila Prabhupada!!

Srila Bhaktivinoda Takura - “However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha . . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura – “When he forgets his service of Krsna he is at once deflected by the attracting power of Maya in this world.” Purport to text 44 of Brahma Samhita<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada rejects the ideas of those who preach the 'impersonal Brahmajyoti origin that claims that the marginal living entity is originally in a dormant state (a plain sheet of consciousness) from where one can develop and then use their free will to choose either Vaikuntha or the mahat-tattva<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of duality and come to hate the service of the Lord. In this way the living entities fall into the material world." Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down?" <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada's answer -"The souls are endowed with minute independence (the ability to choose) as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence". 67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Try to understand what Prabhupada is telling us.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We do not evolve in 'consciousness' to the Krsnaloka realm, with the foolish idea we have never been to Krsnaloka. Srila Prabhupada also clearly rejected that idea as impersonal because we are actually already there in Krsnaloka and ALWAYS have been. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> How is that possible?? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is a fact that we are ALL ALREADY in Krsnaloka in our FULL eternal Krsna Conscious state as our nitya-siddha-svarupa body. However, presently that 'AWARENESS' is covered by our selfish non-Krsna conscious desires. We therefore cannot see and act in that fully eternally developed consciousness of who WE really are because of our choice and free will to forget Krsna (which means we also forget the body we serve Krsna as).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This means there is NO evolution of consciousness in regards to our original perpetual bodily identity because that body already eternally exists, we simply have to regain the memory of who we really are. <o:p></o:p> We simply have to once again regain the 'awareness 'of who we really are.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We do not grow consciously out of a plain sheet of dormant consciousness and evolve to reach Krsnaloka, but rather, are always are in the process of regaining or re-establishing who we are originally. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the material creation, we are simply in the process of recovering who we really are<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Even if we did fall out of the impersonal Brahmajyoti, then long, long, long before that we were ALL in Krsnaloka in full 'awareness' of our reall bodily nitya-siddha identity.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – "When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with Krishna automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud .. You are ever-liberated”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha Krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original constitutional position that is called svarupa-siddhi". (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition ), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> A devotee -"Original spiritual form in Vaikuntha" means a form that exists in the "present moment". (You should be happy that we have achieved a meeting of the minds on this point.) But does it mean a form, which we had in the past, then lost and will regain - although we will regain a form that always exists in the "present moment".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Answer – Nothing is lost or regained in Goloka except for our memory and 'awareness' of who we really are. Everything is set eternally there is in a state of the living entities 'full potential originality as a nitya siddha embodied devotee of Krsna or Vishnu', which means ALL living entities or jiva sparks, have a Svarupa body that is eternally unchangeable, eternally youthful, eternally original and eternal a person with bodily form sat, chit, Ananda, VIGRAHA. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If there is no past or future and only the present, then we are all in a perpetual state of originality. Remember, the living entity leaves Goloka not as ones eternal svarupa body, but via their sub-conscious dream, thought and imagination, so just as ones material body never changes while one is dreaming they are a King, ones ‘svarupa’ body never changes while one is living out their dreams in the material world. <o:p></o:p>

And before that? There are so many things that Vedic sastra has told us that seems contradictory, whereas in reality, in Goloka Vrndavana dhama (Krsnaloka), due to the 'eternal presents' of no past or future, these things will be seen in another way as also explained by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.43 Srila Prabhupada - “Upon seeing the Visnudutas, Ajamila gave up his material body at Hardwar on the bank of the Ganges. He regained his original spiritual body, which was a body appropriate for an associate of the Lord”. Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.43 The reason why all marginal living beings have an eternal bodily form is because they were ‘created’ within a dominion known as the ‘eternal present’ where every living entity in that realm are originally (without a beginning point) created as eternal persons with full bodily features. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is the living entities ‘svarupa’ body that eternally and originally exists within that ‘eternal present’ of Goloka-Vrndavana as ever fresh, eternally in the stage of being new and original, an originality that is permanently, without beginning or end, secure in that realm of origin. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Even though our svarupa body, IS our original position, there is no beginning or end to that ‘original position’ because it is situated within the ‘eternal present’<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This means technically they, like Krishna, were never actually created. This is because their real identities or eternal bodies, are all within the ‘eternal present’ of time and space, devoid of past and future within Gods eternal Kingdom known as Goloka Vrndavana or Krsnaloka right now. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Within that unending Spritual World of Vaikuntha, all living entities are perpetually existing in a perpetual state of ORIGINALITY, which means they are always present there in ‘the eternal present’ without the concept of past and future as their bodily (vigraha) svarupa (devotional personality) form, whom are the eternal servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, ALL living entities were created as sat, chit, ananda in the form of eternal vigraha in the beginning (which paradoxically was beginningless). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way, the original residence of all living entities (marginal beings) is their innovative home Goloka-Vrndavana or Krsnaloka, which is the imperishable Kingdom of God.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Actually there is no birth of the jivas. We are all eternal, like Krishna Himself. Many things in the shastra is meant to convince the baddha-jivas conditioned in the material world, that their real home is Krsnaloka. <o:p></o:p> There are so many things that Vedic sastra has told us that seems contradictory, whereas in reality, in Goloka Vrndavana dhama (Krsnaloka), due to the 'eternal presents', of no past or future, these things will be seen in another way. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And what is that other way we will see thing that many say is inconceivable to understand? The simple answer is, on that level or ‘seeing things in an other way’, is seeing that the material creation, of trillion upon trillions of years and life times, will appear no-more than a moment of dreaming in the material world once one ‘awakens’ and becomes aware of Krsnaloka and their service to Krsna. Srila Prabhupada - “Formerly we were with Krsna in His Lila” Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to Madhudvisa and devotee in Australia As long as we all have selfish material desires to exploit the material world, this subject will always remain a mystery

Many have laughed when told their existence in the material world is just the dream state they have created. However, if they care to read Prabhupada’s books, they will find it is ALL their dream ONLY EXPERIENCED by 'entering' unlimited dream identities or vessels within the dreams of Maha Vishnu– <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Mahā-Viṣṇu, as the Brahma-saḿhitā describes – <o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. 4.29.83.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en

The Crow-and-Fruit Philosophy? Actually there is no argument with followers of Lord Caitanya. Just accept Prabhupada’s famous comments on the recording of the 1966 Hare Krishna Album. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> His Divine Grace says – "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album 1966) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> His Divine Grace further without a doubt says – “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-Gita on August 6, 1973<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> To illustrate the uselessness of arguing about what Prabhupada has already clearly explained to us, Srila Prabhupada gave the example of the crow and the fruit of an Indian palm, the tal fruit in a letter send to his Australian devotees in 1972. <o:p></o:p> I was personally there as a disciple of Srila Prabhupada when Madhudvisa 'Swami' received that letter that resulted from a debate that happened on our Travelling Hare Krsna Bus as we toured the nation in July 1972 preaching the message of Caitanya Maha Prabhu. Some devotees were saying we have come from the impersonal characteristic of the Brahmajyoti. Some devotees had previously heard Siddhasvarupa ‘Swami’ also preaching this idea in New Zealand and they told devotees in Sydney. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada wrote and asked Siddhasvarupa ‘Swami’ not to preach such philosophy in his Temples and he no longer did preach that way. The same thing happened on the Travelling Bus in July of 72 with Madhudvisa ‘Swami and Caru dasa, (who was also on that Bus for a short time). Both had always preached we had all come down from Krsnaloka, but were also disturbed by this discussion. So this whole debate was presented to Prabhupada. In the letter he sent us, Prabhupada first explained our original position is in Goloka from where we ‘think we fall’, he rejected the idea with originated from ‘a bare expanse of inactive consciousness’ from the Brahmajyoti. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “"Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition ), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami Prabhupada explains this in other places also Srila Prabhupada – “Existence in the impersonal Brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the Brahman effulgence, they are also in the fallen condition. So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition”. - Letter, June 13, 1970. <o:p></o:p> However, knowing that his young devotees might find such deep philosophy too difficult to understand, he then goes on and explains it in this simple way as the letter he sends to us all via Madhudvisa ‘Swami’ explains – <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “On the top of a tree was a nice tal fruit. A crow went there and the fruit fell down. Some learned scholars saw this and began discussing. <o:p></o:p> The fruit fell because the crow shook the limb, one said. No, said another, as the crow was landing the fruit happened to fall. This frightened the crow, so the crow flew away. No, said a third, the fruit was ripe, and the weight of the crow’s landing broke the fruit from the branch… . <o:p></o:p> “What is the use of such discussion?” Srila Prabhupada said. <o:p></o:p> "Whether we came from Krishna’s pastimes or from some other spiritual source, Srila Prabhupada said, “at the present you are in neither. So the best policy is to develop your Krishna consciousness and go there [to Krishna], never mind what is your origin.” <o:p></o:p> “At the present moment you are in Maya’s clutches,” he wrote, “so our only hope is to become Krishna conscious and go back to home, back to Godhead.” <o:p></o:p> Don’t waste time with the crow-and-tal-fruit logic; just accept as I have taught about coming from Goloka and not the impersonal Brahmajyoti, Srila Prabhupada advised. “Now the fruit is there. Take it and enjoy” <o:p></o:p> In this way, without argument, we should accept Srila Prabhupada’s conclusion and understand without any doubts, that we ALL came down from Goloka long, long, long ago, not as our nitya-siddha-svarupa body, but as a dreaming projection known as the living entities nitya-baddha consciousness. <o:p></o:p> The following are the comments by His Divine Grace on our original position <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down?" 67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada's answer -"The souls are endowed with minute independence (the ability to choose) as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence". 67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness." Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, Actually, you are NOT conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971. Many have laughed when told their existence in the material world is just the dream state they have created. However, if they care to read Prabhupada’s books, they will find it is ALL their dream ONLY EXPERIENCED by 'entering' unlimited dream identities or vessels within the dreams of Maha Vishnu – <?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Mahā-Viṣṇu, as the Brahma-saḿhitā describes – <u1:p></u1:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. 4.29.83.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en The fact is, our original bodily svarupa form is without beginning or end and always 'locked, sheltered and forever protected' within the realm of the ‘eternal present of Krsnaloka’, which makes our origin, eternally manifest and always in that state or moment of origin beyond the decaying effects of past and future.. <o:p></o:p> In simply terms, we are always in Vaikuntha, right now we are there, but our dream of the material world is so powerful, we cannot see the TRUTH of this secret of all secrets. <o:p></o:p> The so-called 'origin of the jiva' is only realized from within our own hearts when we are free from material desires.