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gauragopala dasa

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  1. Well written and point understood, I agree with you here
  2. Srila Prabhupada - “Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1 <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yes , to me that makes sense because in February 1973 Srila Prabhupada told me personally that the body I now have is not me and that my real identity and body is in Vaikuntha , right now – he was adamant saying ‘your real body is already there in Vaikuntha’<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - As soon as we understand that, “I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna’s servant. Eternal servant. That’s all. lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 196<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Our contact with matter is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness, we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this So this situation” Srila Prabhupada lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad
  3. Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda Germany, June 22, 1974 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  4. <TABLE class=tborder id=post1071478 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_1071478 style="BORDER-TOP: #cfcfcf 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #cfcfcf 1px solid">In simple English we are marginal that can choose to serve Krishna's super energy or be covered by his inferior energy “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way the living entities are called marginal potency because they are naturally surrounded by and serving the Superior energy (Krishna and His Vishnu expansions) in their original perpetual body in Vaikuntha, or can choose to use their free will and become covered by the temporary inferior energy in the forms of decaying ethereal and biological bodies (MATERIAL) within the mahat-tattva or material creation. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The jiva-tatastha or marginal living entity can also further enter the greatest phenomenon and mystery that has perplexed so many pandits, scholars, Sadhus, yogis, Swami’s Guru’s and Vaishavas for thousands of years, and that is a dormant dreamless state of individual consciousness that is part of a quiescent collective called the impersonal Brahmajyoti. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <FONT size=3>The Impersonal Brahman is neither the superior energy nor the inferior energy. Let me explain. Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is applicable here because ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<o:p></o:p> It is in this way that this Impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti does not and can never represent the full potential or Krishna conscious perpetual bodily origins of tatastha s’akti (the marginal living entity) because ones genuine self is eternally established in the endless ‘presents’ of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is beyond the influence of mundane time and space. The jiva-tatasthas souls that have projected themselves into the Impersonal Brahmajyoti are for that reason in a dreaming static state of delusional individual consciousness unaware of their perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka or Vaikuntha. Therefore it is only the lower non <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious condition of the jiva tatastha that has merged into a individual collective called the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, like the mahat-tattva, is also a temporary state of existence and imagination for the jiva tatastha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Regarding your question, in one sense both you and Mahapurusa are right. The fact is that after the dissolution of the Universe the living entities remain in slumber within Maha Visnu, and again when the creation takes place they are impregnated in their original position and they come out in different species of life. By gradual evolutionary process, when they come to the human form there is good chance of getting out of the repeated birth and death, and one can enter into the Spiritual Realm. But if one loses this chance he is again put into the cycle of birth and death. The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Visnu Form, whereas the liberated souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu<o:p></o:p> <!-- / message --> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #cfcfcf 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef"> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: postbit_onlinestatus --><!-- END TEMPLATE: postbit_onlinestatus --><!-- [sTART HACK='vB Pager' AUTHOR='UAEWEB.COM' VERSION='3.0.3' CHANGEID= 7 ] --><!-- [END HACK='vB Pager' AUTHOR='UAEWEB.COM' VERSION='3.0.3' CHANGEID= 7 ] --> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  5. The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY, he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If the marginal living entity chooses to go back to the internal energy (the spiritual world), it still keeps his marginal independence. It does not change his nature into internal energy and becomes Vishnu-tattva. Although the living entities are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna (which is spiritual), they nevertheless keep their marginal independence. Jiva-tattva (the marginal energy) does not turn into Vishnu-tattva (the internal energy), otherwise the living entity would turn into God Himself as in Mayavadi philosophy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Marginal energy can be situated either in the external or internal energy of the Lord and according to the living beings free will and contact with either the material or spiritual energies, the living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of existence. If marginal energy can freely choose to be situated in either external or internal energy, then marginal energy (because of his free will) can also choose to leave either external or internal energy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>
  6. Srila Prabhupada - "Three energies are predominant: the internal energy, external energy and marginal energy. This is confirmed in the Sixth Chapter of Vishnu Purana where it is said that Vishnu has one energy, which is called spiritual energy Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "It is manifested in three ways. When spiritual energy is overwhelmed by ignorance, it is called marginal energy. As far as spiritual energy itself is concerned, it is exhibited in three forms because Krishna is a combination of eternity, bliss and knowledge. Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "As far as His bliss is concerned, His spiritual energy is manifested as the pleasure giving potency. His eternity is manifested as energy, and His knowledge is manifested as spiritual perfection. As confirmed in Vishnu Purana (1.12.69): Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - ""The pleasure potency of Krishna gives Krishna transcendental pleasure and bliss." Thus when Krishna wants to enjoy pleasure, He exhibits His own spiritual potency known as hladini. Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "In His spiritual form, Krishna enjoys His spiritual energy, and that is the sum and substance of the Radha-Krishna pastimes. These pastimes can only be understood by elevated devotees Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya
  7. Srila Prabhupada - "According to Vedic instructions, one should understand the constitutional position of the living entity, the position of the Lord, and the position of material energy in their interrelation. First of all, one should try to understand the constitutional position of the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead. That Supreme Lord has an eternal, cognizant, blissful body, and His spiritual energy is distributed as eternity, knowledge and bliss. Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya<!-- END TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --> Srila Prabhupada - "In His blissful identity can be found His pleasure potency, and in His eternal identity He can be seen as the cause of everything. In His cognizant identity, He is the supreme knowledge. Indeed, the word kṛṣṇa indicates that supreme knowledge. In other words, the Supreme Personality, Kṛṣṇa, is the reservoir of all knowledge, pleasure and eternity. The supreme knowledge of Kṛṣṇa is exhibited in three different energies — internal, marginal and external. Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Srila Prabhupada - "By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy, He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy. Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognizance.Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya<!-- END TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --> Srila Prabhupada - "The conditioned soul is the marginal potency overpowered by the external potency. However, when the marginal potency comes under the jurisdiction of the spiritual potency, it becomes eligible for love of Godhead. The Supreme Lord enjoys six kinds of opulences, and no one can establish that He is formless or that He is without energy. If someone claims so, his contention is completely opposed to the Vedic instructions. Actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the master of ali energies. It is only the living entity, who is an infinitesimal part and parcel of Him, who is overpowered by the material energy.Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya <!-- END TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: newreply_reviewbit -->
  8. Srila Prabhupada - "The original energy of the Supreme Lord is spiritual and nondifferent from the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead. The living entity is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord, and the material energy is called the inferior energy. Due to his material inebriety, the living entity in the marginal position becomes entangled with the inferior energy, matter. At such a time he forgets his spiritual significance, identifies himself with material energy and thereby becomes subjected to the threefold miseries. Only when he is free from such material contamination can he be situated in his proper position".Chapter 25: Personal and Impersonal Realization Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya
  9. Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja - ' A question arises: if all souls are eternal servants of Sri Krsna, when did they become adverse (bahirmukha) to Him? When did they turn away from Him? Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami has explained this by quoting the version of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu: "Krsna bhuli' sei jiva." Who is the jiva referred to in this verse? He is the eternal servant of Sri Krsna, Krsna's marginal potency (tatastha-sakti). This should be remembered always; the jiva is not a direct manifestation of Sri Krsna's internal potency. The living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna, because he is the marginal energy of Krsna - a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or spark of fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu explained, "Jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa." By spiritual constitution, all those who have life - including human beings, birds, animals, trees and creepers, and even very small worms and insects - are eternal servants of Lord Krsna. There is no doubt of this, and this also applies to us Krsnera tatastha sakti - all souls are transformations of the Lord's marginal potency (tatastha-sakti)
  10. Srila Prabhupada – “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can’t be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu The Impersonalist understanding today is rampant and affecting many who wrongly believe that the jiva-soul becomes conscious after originally ‘falling out’ of the impersonal Brahmajyoti and then ‘somehow’ becomes endowed with free will, therefore their understanding of the Brahmajyoti is obviously impersonal and therefore dangerous. Such sects do not understand the correct PERSONAL teaching of the Vedas given to us by Jagat Guru His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada -”The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the (marginal) living entities live together very peacefully” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport) Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If the marginal living entity chooses to go back to the internal energy (the spiritual world), it still keeps his marginal independence. It does not change his nature into internal energy and becomes Vishnu-tattva. Although the living entities are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna (which is spiritual), they nevertheless keep their marginal independence. Jiva-tattva (the marginal energy) does not turn into Vishnu-tattva (the internal energy), otherwise the living entity would turn into God Himself as in Mayavadi philosophy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Marginal energy can be situated either in the external or internal energy of the Lord and according to the living beings free will and contact with either the material or spiritual energies, the living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of existence. If marginal energy can freely choose to be situated in either external or internal energy, then marginal energy (because of his free will) can also choose to leave either external or internal energy."<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here are excerpts from two letters the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu regarding our 'original position'. One letter is from 1968 and one from 1969.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question, in one sense both you and Mahapurusa are right. The fact is that after the dissolution of the Universe the living entities remain in slumber within Maha Visnu, and again when the creation takes place they are impregnated in their original position and they come out in different species of life. By gradual evolutionary process, when they come to the human form there is good chance of getting out of the repeated birth and death, and one can enter into the Spiritual Realm. But if one loses this chance he is again put into the cycle of birth and death. The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Visnu Form, whereas the liberated souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down”. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Please offer my blessings to the others. I hope this will meet you in good health." <o:p></o:p> A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
  11. Absolute nonsense!! You not understanding, ring your nearest temple iskcon or gaudiya math and learn the truth that marginal means jiva-tattva in Vaikuntha or the material world
  12. We have all come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, the Spiritual Master of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains our eternal constitutional position - "We believe there is a Personality of Godhead and also that we are persons. We want all our troublesome situations removed and wish to reach a position where we can move freely and have all our needs satisfied. This has resulted in our turning towards that Supreme Absolute Personality.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the Supreme Lord we find three features - He is ever existing, full of knowledge and the source of unending happiness. In Him there is no inadequacy, no discrepancy, no defect, no influence of time, nor any ignorance. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Because He is an "emporium" of all bliss and all knowledge, we should not seek after anything for our worldly purposes, leaving Him aside. We are His servants. He is the Lord. Nevertheless He need not give us anything. We are simply meant to serve Him and eternal peace comes from our eagerness in His service.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> God has got spiritual eyes, spiritual ears, spiritual tongue, spiritual nose, spiritual skin and a spiritual mind: nothing material like us. Our senses are made of material elements, but there are no material elements in Him.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Although He can choose to delegate power to certain infinitesimal souls and thereby enable them to transact affairs with Him, ordinarily we are placed in a region where all sorts of imperfection and undesirables are prominent.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> From this bitter experience, we should recognize the need to devise some means to get free from unpleasant situations and become prepared for the stage wherefrom we can realize the nature of our own true selves". Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada -9th of January 1926<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Try to understand what Srila Prabhupada is also telling us.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". In an Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka or Vaikuntha or even both), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever (conditioned as nitya-baddha in the material world)"(Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"You are ever-liberated (meaning in our original and eternal state, we are all nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual but is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (known as the mahat-tattva or material creation that is in one corner of the Spiritual Sky), this is Maya (The cloud is created by Maha-Vishnu and His Wife Maya-Devi, through her powerful s'akti, controls all the bodily vessels occupied by the visiting DREAMING baddha-jivas)". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)<o:p></o:p> ALL living entities were created as sat, cit, ananda in the form of eternal vigraha in the beginning (which paradoxically was beginingless). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way, the original residence of all living entities (marginal beings) is their original home Goloka-Vrndavana or Krsnaloka, which is the imperishable Kingdom of God. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material. Try to understand”. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 <o:p></o:p> The paradox here is no one never really leaves Goloka, they only imagine they do by falling out of sync with the 'eternal present'<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The resulting paradox is that while one is in the material world, they actually believe they are in the material world because not only do they have no memory of their 'eternal svarupa' body, but also they have consciously separated themselves from the eternal present’ where their real eternal bodily self resides.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krishna because he is the marginal energy of Krishna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krishna has three varieties of energy" Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109 <o:p></o:p> However, all of Krishna's marginal 'sparks' and so called 'atoms (souls) in the effulgence have the same ORIGINAL bodily features like Krishna - sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form, <o:p></o:p> Yasomatinandana: Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Madhudvisa: The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it. <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krishna, two hands, two legs. <o:p></o:p> Hari-sauri: How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms? <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada [describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Hari-sauri: They are covered in the spiritual world? <o:p></o:p> Madhudvisa: He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well. <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krishna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krishna," he becomes flower, voluntarily. <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: And he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krishna as cow, he serves Krishna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything.<o:p></o:p> It is inconceivable, yet a fact. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975<o:p></o:p> Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [bg. 4.11]. That is Krsna's all-powerfulness, spiritual life." <o:p></o:p> Hari Sauri dasa – “The fact is that spiritual form is inconceivable to our present senses. In the material world we try to measure things. But to measure anything, there has to be a reference point and our own bodies are the reference we use to understand the rest of the world around us. <o:p></o:p> Thus our sense of existence is limited to the actions and existence of our own bodies. One devotee has given some examples of drinking or jumping in water or sitting on a chair to explain your experience of past, present and future. Once an action is completed, it is gone, it is in the past. <o:p></o:p> As for the future, it is not manifest to us.<o:p></o:p> We do not know what will come next. We thus have a sense of separation from the action and the object, both in the past and the future. But in the spiritual world Krishna is the object and all action is for pleasing Him. There is never any separation from Krishna. <o:p></o:p> Krishna continuously dominates the consciousness of every living being and action is the eternal flow of service to Krishna. It never stops yet it takes on unlimited variety of performance”. End of quote <o:p></o:p> The jiva tattva's take shelter under hladhini Shakti or the mercy of Radharani, they can never become hladhini Shakti because no jiva tattva can become Vishnu tattva - taking shelter, yes, become hladhini Shakti is not possible.<o:p></o:p> Although obviously some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - there is no third category of souls <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada explains this very clearly - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968 <o:p></o:p> In Prabhupada’s 1969 lecture on Radhastami, which he gave in London, he said, “Radharani is the pleasure potency, hladhini Shakti.” <o:p></o:p> The living entities ARE the marginal energy or tatastha sakti that is not some place or region in the universe as some suggest, but is what we are, there is no something else because there are only two types of living entities – Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entity, jiva-tattva or other words that simple mean jiva tattva, like tatastha sakti, is a bodily form in their original full constitutional foundation and potential when they realize their true identity of who they really are and have always been, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position. <o:p></o:p> So marginal, jiva tattva and tatastha simply means the ability to choose the land and the ocean or Goloka and the mahat-tattva. The marginal is therefore known as "tatastha sakti" <o:p></o:p> NOTE, THERE ARE 170 DIFFERENT ‘JIVA’ names that all mean jiva-tattva in different spiritual and material pastimes <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore, two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). Letter Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-Maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- Maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada never used the word ‘tatastha sakti much in his books, he preferred to use the word ‘marginal’ living entity<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original constitutional position that is called svarupa-siddhi". (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna". Letter to Australian devotees 1972 under Madhudvisa Swami <o:p></o:p> Actually you are a pure devotee but you have forgotten that long, long, long ago, we have allowed ourselves to be covered by the cloud of selfish desires that blocks out our memory of who we really are. <o:p></o:p> Try to understand what Prabhupada is telling us. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada- "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". In an Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada- "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka or Vaikuntha or even both), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
  13. Srila Prabhupada ‘personally’ told me (Gauragopala dasa) in the Sydney Temple room in February 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some devotees once said in Mayapur in 1976 that it is too difficult to understand how we originally feel down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed as Prabhupada had previously told his Australian devotees in 1972 however on this occasion he says the opposite and tells the devotees they should try to understand. <o:p></o:p> We have to realize that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here is Srila Prabhupada's response to those who believe it is too difficult to understand we ALL came down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: Fall down?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti<o:p></o:p> ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya<o:p></o:p> zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real but temporary, so factually we do fall down, we do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the awareness of Goloka and our svarupa body is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age disease and death – even that’s experienced as real, even though temporary. There is a fine line between reality and illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These are the words of Lord Caitanya: The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha sakti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s’akti (jiva tattva) IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy (tatastha s’akti) , jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serve the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand.
  14. Marginal potency of the Lord <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because they are (jiva tattva) between the internal and external potencies, the eternally transcendental living entities are called the marginal potency of the Lord. (Bhäg. 2.5.19,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Factually, the living entities are not meant to be so conditioned by material energy, but due to their being affected by the false sense of lording it over the material energy, they come under the influence of such potency and thus become conditioned by the three modes of material nature. (Bhäg. 2.5.19, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This external energy of the Lord covers up the pure knowledge of the living entity’s eternally existing with Him, but the covering is so constant that it appears that the conditioned soul is eternally ignorant.” (Bhäg. 2.5.19, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Similarly, there was no necessity to create this material world for the sufferings of the conditioned souls, but at the same time there are certain living entities, known as nitya-baddha, who are eternally conditioned. We say that they have been conditioned from time immemorial because no one can trace out when the living entity, the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, became rebellious against the supremacy of the Lord. (Which means originally the nitya baddhas were all nitya siddha devotees) (Bhäg. 3.26.5, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “It is a fact that there are two classes of men... Without tracing out the beginning of the existence of these two classes, we can take it for granted that some of the living entities revolted against the laws of the Lord. Such entities are called conditioned souls (nitya-baddhas)... Covered by the material body, the spiritual identity (nitya-siddha) is lost, and therefore the word mumuhe is used here, indicating that they have forgotten their own spiritual identity (nitya-siddha).” (Bhäg. 3.26.5, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “It is clear that a particular body is given to the living entity for a particular type of activity. This process is going on perpetually, from a time which it is impossible to trace out. (Bhäg. 3.31.44, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Vaishava poets say, therefore, anädi karama-phale, which means that these actions and reactions of one’s activity cannot be traced, for they may even continue from the last millennium of Brahmä’s birth to the next millennium.” (Bhäg. 3.31.44, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Eternally conditioned nitya-baddha) means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. It is not possible to trace out the history. Because living entity, by nature, he is not conditioned NOT nitya-baddha). But actually we see that we are conditioned, and there is no possibility to trace out the history. (Cc. lecture, January 9, 1967, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Many, many Brahmä’s life. Not only one Brahmä’s. There are so many Brahmäs changed, and we are conditioned. So therefore we are called eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha).” (Cc. lecture, January 9, 1967, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “So some way or other, originally, we are all Krishna conscious, pure, svaccha. Svacchatvam avikäritvam. Now, being transformed or agitated somehow or other... Anädi-karama-phale, padi’ bhavärëava-jale. We cannot ascertain when this transformation took place... <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “How we fell, you can trace out the history, but it is very difficult because anädi karama phale, nobody can ascertain. Just like when a man is diseased, he goes to doctor... There is no necessity to find out the history how he fell diseased. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “There is history (but the cause of many cancers is unknown). Therefore it is said, anädi karama-phale. Anädi. Anädi means... Ädi means the creation. Creation... before creation, I [become] contaminated [with] this desire, icchä-dveña samutthena.” (Bhäg. lecture, January 1, 1975, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “And there are innumerable spiritual living entities also. And some of them, those who are not fit to live in that spiritual world, they are, I mean to say, sent to this material world”. (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “The same idea is expressed in Milton’s Paradise Lost. So we, all conditioned souls, we are practically living in a place after Paradise Lost. We should understand this... (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Actually we are spirit soul. We should not have accepted this material body. But when we have accepted, how we accepted, there cannot be any tracing of history. It is not possible. Anädi karama. Anädi karama. (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Nobody can trace out the history, when we, the conditioned soul, accepted this material body.” (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Your next question, ‘...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?...’ You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned (or nitya baddhas). Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the living entity is not actually conditioned. A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent.” (Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968)
  15. Happy, healthy and an inspiring 2009 to Jayapataka Maharaj and his wonderful care's - HAPPY NEW YEAR HARE KRSNA These are few pictures of Jayapataka Swami at the Bhaktivedanta Hospital taken on December 23, 2008. Further Updates: 22-Dec-08 Report by Vaikuntapati Prabhu: Maharaja was taking facial therapy from Dr. Mahabahu prabhu when we arrived to his room. By his expert treatment he could close his left eye better than before and the face appearance is getting better day by day. Everyday Maharaja gets 2 or 3 times the facial therapy and each session lasts for 30 minutes. Prasadam was served after his facial therapy. Then the physiotherapist came to see Maharaja to give bed exercises and also to teach Bhadara Balaram prabhu and Ekanath Gaura prabhu so that they can give the same exercises to Maharaja as often possible during the day. At 4:30 pm the opthologist doctor came with their machine to check Guru Maharaja’s eyes. They also appreciate face therapist’s treatment that Guru Maharaja can close his left eye better and eventually Guru Maharaja will not have his left eye taped while sleeping at night. When the devotees were shifting Guru Maharaja to the bed his right hand accidently hit the rails of the bed and Guru Maharaja expressed a sudden pain saying, “ouch!” Immediately Dr.Shiromani mataji said this means the right hand started to sense the pain and it is a good sign. At 6:15 pm Jagannath, Baladev and Subadra deities came to Guru Maharaja’s room. Guru Maharaja took darsan of Them, offered flowers and took a small piece of prasad. After that Narataki Mataji, Srila Prabhupada’s disciple who resides above Guru Maharaja’s room in the spiritual care department came to see him and recollected how Guru Maharaja was serving so nicely Srila Prabhupada. Guru Maharaja was so tired after getting so many therapies since the morning, so the servants desired to give him prasadam and put him to early rest. At 8:15 pm Guru Maharaja was served prasadam and at 9:15 pm he was on the bed sleeping. Ekanath Gaura prabhu shared with us all how in the morning during the physiotherapy session Guru Maharaja showed improvement in his walking using the parallel bars and with the support of the devotees.
  16. Great sincere heart felt songs attract even great Demigod devotees to take birth, most are presently young children in the old Soviet block!! (10) Listen To The Children(07) Island Nations such historically important songs that even attracted many great Demigods to take birth behind the Soviet iron curtain (from May 1986)
  17. (10) Listen To The Children(07) Island Nations such historically important songs that even attracted some great Demigods to take birth behind the Soviet iron curtain
  18. The first time Guru Maharaja was taken into an open area with grass. <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --> Tuesday, December 23 - Report from HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja: They are giving me intensive physiotheraphy treatment. Since two days they asked me to, "Sit down, Stand up. Sit down, Stand up" like this for 10 times (but with lesser support) to stimulate my leg muscles. They are also teaching me to stand erect. Things that I used to do naturally I have to be taught. Right eyebrow started to move today; beginning of facial muscles unfreezing. They are giving me three kinds of therapies, physio, facial and acupuncture. Acupuncture hurts me alot. Note from Ratnavali: Dr.Shiromani Mataji and Ekanatha Gaura prabhu told me that today morning after the physiotheraphy session, Guru Maharaja had darshan of Srila Prabhupada in the ground floor and later he was taken in a wheel chair to Jagannath Vallabha gardens inside the hospital complex. It is a beautiful garden with so many vrndavan trees planted personally by a vrajavasi. There are many fruit and flower bearing trees like kadamba, parijata, chikoo, mango etc. Tuesday, December 23 - Report from HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja: They are giving me intensive physiotheraphy treatment. Since two days they asked me to, "Sit down, Stand up. Sit down, Stand up" like this for 10 times (but with lesser support) to stimulate my leg muscles. They are also teaching me to stand erect. Things that I used to do naturally I have to be taught. Right eyebrow started to move today; beginning of facial muscles unfreezing. They are giving me three kinds of therapies, physio, facial and acupuncture. Acupuncture hurts me alot. Note from Ratnavali: Dr.Shiromani Mataji and Ekanatha Gaura prabhu told me that today morning after the physiotheraphy session, Guru Maharaja had darshan of Srila Prabhupada in the ground floor and later he was taken in a wheel chair to Jagannath Vallabha gardens inside the hospital complex. It is a beautiful garden with so many vrndavan trees planted personally by a vrajavasi. There are many fruit and flower bearing trees like kadamba, parijata, chikoo, mango etc. Later he was taken to the temple room of Bhaktivedanta hospital. It wasn't possible to take his wheel chair inside. So the local devotees held a mirror in front of Jagannatha, Baladeva, Subhadra and Gaura Nitai Deities and Guru Maharaja could take darshan of Their reflection! Click here to go to the History page to read the previous health updates of HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. Later he was taken to the temple room of Bhaktivedanta hospital. It wasn't possible to take his wheel chair inside. So the local devotees held a mirror in front of Jagannatha, Baladeva, Subhadra and Gaura Nitai Deities and Guru Maharaja could take darshan of Their reflection! Click here to go to the History page to read the previous health updates of HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
  19. Tuesday, December 23 - Report from HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja: They are giving me intensive physiotheraphy treatment. Since two days they asked me to, "Sit down, Stand up. Sit down, Stand up" like this for 10 times (but with lesser support) to stimulate my leg muscles. They are also teaching me to stand erect. Things that I used to do naturally I have to be taught. Right eyebrow started to move today; beginning of facial muscles unfreezing. They are giving me three kinds of therapies, physio, facial and acupuncture. Acupuncture hurts me alot. Note from Ratnavali: Dr.Shiromani Mataji and Ekanatha Gaura prabhu told me that today morning after the physiotheraphy session, Guru Maharaja had darshan of Srila Prabhupada in the ground floor and later he was taken in a wheel chair to Jagannath Vallabha gardens inside the hospital complex. It is a beautiful garden with so many vrndavan trees planted personally by a vrajavasi. There are many fruit and flower bearing trees like kadamba, parijata, chikoo, mango etc. Tuesday, December 23 - Report from HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja: They are giving me intensive physiotheraphy treatment. Since two days they asked me to, "Sit down, Stand up. Sit down, Stand up" like this for 10 times (but with lesser support) to stimulate my leg muscles. They are also teaching me to stand erect. Things that I used to do naturally I have to be taught. Right eyebrow started to move today; beginning of facial muscles unfreezing. They are giving me three kinds of therapies, physio, facial and acupuncture. Acupuncture hurts me alot. Note from Ratnavali: Dr.Shiromani Mataji and Ekanatha Gaura prabhu told me that today morning after the physiotheraphy session, Guru Maharaja had darshan of Srila Prabhupada in the ground floor and later he was taken in a wheel chair to Jagannath Vallabha gardens inside the hospital complex. It is a beautiful garden with so many vrndavan trees planted personally by a vrajavasi. There are many fruit and flower bearing trees like kadamba, parijata, chikoo, mango etc. Later he was taken to the temple room of Bhaktivedanta hospital. It wasn't possible to take his wheel chair inside. So the local devotees held a mirror in front of Jagannatha, Baladeva, Subhadra and Gaura Nitai Deities and Guru Maharaja could take darshan of Their reflection! Click here to go to the History page to read the previous health updates of HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. Later he was taken to the temple room of Bhaktivedanta hospital. It wasn't possible to take his wheel chair inside. So the local devotees held a mirror in front of Jagannatha, Baladeva, Subhadra and Gaura Nitai Deities and Guru Maharaja could take darshan of Their reflection! Click here to go to the History page to read the previous health updates of HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja.
  20. ..... <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er9_eM9_8Do&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">
  21. The fact is, our real bodily form is eternally with Krishna in Goloka, but sometimes, due to our ability to choose and practise free will, we simply make the wrong choice and ‘dream’ of an existence without Krishna. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> In this way, our memory and 'awareness' of who we really are, becomes forgotten or covered by our own self centred desires to please ourselves in our imaginary material ethereal and biological bodies and no longer recognise Krishna as our eternal master from the correct viewpoint of our permanent and always existing Spiritual body. <o:p></o:p> What does it really mean to be situated in Gods Kingdom and what is, or where is our true eternal bodily form and identity? <o:p></o:p> Nothing is lost or gained in Goloka Vrndavana or the perpetual Kingdom of God because everything is always fully perfect in the mood of loving selfless devotional relationships with Krishna. In actual fact, we are always there but some of us are 'thinking' or 'dreaming we are not there but live in a world made up of our own imagination. <o:p></o:p> The fact is, our real bodily form is eternally with Krishna in Goloka but sometimes, due to our ability to choose and practise free will, our memory and 'awareness' of who we really are becomes forgotten or covered by our own self centred desires to please ourselves and not Krishna. <o:p></o:p> So leaving Goloka is NOT a physical fall down, it is a sub-conscious one. Everything in Krsnaloka is set eternally in the present, meaning Gods eternal blissful Kingdom has no experience or concept of past or future. So what’s there is forever there. This means every living entity is represented there by the bodily form they eternally are. <o:p></o:p> This eternal presents that has no beginning or end in Goloka, is a place of selfless loving devotion. This is Gods or Krishna’s eternal Kingdom where the living entities awareness is meant to always be however, some choose to forget and enter another world called the material creation or mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> Only found in Goloka is who we really are, everlastingly serving Krsna and his devotees and expansions in a blissful body that ultimately out shines all the dream material identities our forgetful mind has created over so many life times. <o:p></o:p> It is therefore; only in Goloka we will find that our perpetual devotional bodily form, endlessly exists living out the living entities 'full potential originality as a nitya siddha embodied devotee of Krsna or Vishnu'. <o:p></o:p> This means ALL living entities or jiva sparks, have an Svarupa body that is eternally unchangeable, eternally youthful, eternally original and eternal a person with bodily form sat, chit, ananda, VIGRAHA. <o:p></o:p> If there is no past or future and only the present, then we are all in a perpetual state of originality there. Remember, the living entity leaves Goloka not as ones eternal Svarupa body, but via their sub-conscious dream, thought, mistaken desires and imagination. <o:p></o:p> So, just as ones material body never changes while one is dreaming they are a King, ones ‘Svarupa’ body never changes while one is living out their self centred dreams in the material world. <o:p></o:p> We must remember that our nitya-siddha-Svarupa body is forever locked and secured perpetually within the ‘eternal present, which is an eternal state of originality’ that has no past and future. <o:p></o:p> This means when one finishes their dreams within the material world and again become ‘aware’ of their full potential ‘Svarupa body, it is like waking up from a dream and finding themselves as the body they always were and always have been. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada explains it this way –“There is nothing to be gained in Goloka, only regained” <o:p></o:p> How can we leave a place of such exquisite loveliness? Once we go to Goloka we do not leave. We cannot leave. (Out of everlasting forever happiness and bliss) I do not see how we were there in the first place. <o:p></o:p> Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, you say in your books so many times that somehow or other we have fallen into this material world due to our enviousness or our independence. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Many. There are many reasons. <o:p></o:p> Devotee: I can't seem to get a grasp on this at all. If we, in our original constitutional position as part and parcel of Krishna--and in that position, that, original position of full knowledge and full bliss--and being in our eternal nature . . . Now I have some experience of how strong this material energy is and how Maya works, somewhat. But, if I had known this and had this full knowledge, then I would have had this knowledge of how Maya works and . . . How I might fall? <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: You read the life of Jaya, Vijaya, Hiranyakasipu, Hiranyaksa? They were Krishna's Doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read it? Did you read the life of Hiranyakasipu or Hiranyaksa? <o:p></o:p> Devotee: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: So how they did fall? They are from Vaikuntha. They are Krishna's personal associates, keeping . . . the Doorkeepers. How did they fell down? Anyway, there is chance of falling down at any moment. <o:p></o:p> Devotee: Well, in His family, they wanted to enjoy the material world? <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So, because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krishna. Therefore, we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment. Iccha-dvesa samutthena sarge yanti parantapa. Find out this verse <o:p></o:p> Pusta Krishna Swami: iccha-dvesa samutthena dvandva-mohena bharata sarva-bhutani sammoham sarge yanti parantapa: "O scion of Bharata, O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate." <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Purport? <o:p></o:p> Pusta Krishna Swami: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is that of subordination to the Supreme Lord, Who is pure knowledge. When one is deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate, the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and envies Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees, who are not so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand that Lord Sri Krishna appears by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune. Such deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc., thinking 'This is my wife, this is my house; I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead." <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that--"Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?"--I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, (but) sometimes he may think that, "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking. (Emphases added) <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: Why doesn't Krishna protect us from that desire? <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: He's protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this. <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that? <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: That means you lose your independence. <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara: And no love. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: That is force . . . In Bengali it is said, "If you catch one girl or boy, 'You love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it love? "You love me, otherwise I will kill you!" Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver--"You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. . . Why one is called lover, another is called rape? <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: But isn't it by force anyway? If we don't love Krishna, we suffer. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: That is your business. You'll suffer. But that Krishna does not force you. He says the real, "You love me, you'll be happy. If you don't love, you suffer." But that is your business. <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: So, what is the choice? <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Choice is yours. If you are rascal, you don't make the choice, the best choice. You suffer. The rascals, they suffer. And intelligent men, they do not suffer. If you are intelligent, then Krishna says that, "You surrender to Me." Uou surrender, then you are intelligent. If you are rascal, then you reject and you suffer. When a father says to his rascal son, "My dear son, you just hear me, do like this, you'll be happy." If he does not do it, he'll suffer. There is no other alternative. <o:p></o:p> Guest: Srila Srila Prabhupada, why is the material world made on the level of a jailhouse? It's made on the level of a jailhouse, that, I've been told, the attitude of a jail, instead of the attitude . . . <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes, because there will be so many criminals. Therefore, government has to construct a jailhouse. It is not government's desire. It is expensive, unnecessary. But because there are rascals who will become criminal, the government has jailhouse. So one who wants to remain independent of Krishna, for them there is material world, "All right, you remain here." <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: We also say that Krishna is fulfilling the desires of every living entity. So if we want to enjoy independent of Krishna, why doesn't He let us really enjoy independent of Him? <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: That is not possible. That is Maya; it is called (Maya). You are not enjoyer, you are servant. Because you are willing to become enjoyer, you suffer, that's all. You are not enjoyer. <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: Then He's not fulfilling the desire. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: No, you wanted to enjoy--enjoy at your risk. Sometimes you'll become the king of heaven, and sometimes you become the germs in the stool. <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: Hmmm, enjoy at your risk. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. <o:p></o:p> Vipina Purandara prabhu: Instead of under His protection, you enjoy at your risk. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Therefore He advises, "Rascal, you give up all this enjoying spirit. You just surrender to Me. You'll be happy." But we don't accept it. Therefore, sometimes we are in the heavenly kingdom, sometimes as a worm in the stool. That is going on. That is your risk. Excerpt from an Evening Darsana on July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C. <o:p></o:p> His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, the shaktyavesh-avatar of bhakti-shakti and the current or most recent Sampradaya Acharya in our line of the parampara, is answering the origination question . He is making a very self-evident, forceful presentation: <o:p></o:p> “So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that--"Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?"--I immediately fall down.” <o:p></o:p> “ . . . we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment.” <o:p></o:p> So leaving Goloka is NOT a physical fall down in our nitya siddha body, it is a sub-conscious one where we manifest as our nitya baddha projected sub-conscious state that is compared to a dream state of being, which is the lower self of ones individuality and personality. <o:p></o:p> This artificial dreaming conscious state is then radiated, televised and projected by the living entity as their dream intensifies by desiring to experience existence on their own terms, governed by desires centred around the secondary self that has completely forgotten the perpetual nitya siddha Krsna conscious bodily form they really are eternally.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The fact is, our real bodily form is eternally with Krishna in Goloka, but sometimes, due to our ability to choose and practise free will, we simply make the wrong choice and ‘dream’ of an existence without Krishna. In this way, our memory and 'awareness' of who we really are, becomes forgotten or covered by our own self centred desires to please ourselves in our imaginary material ethereal and biological bodies and no longer recognise Krishna as our eternal master from the correct viewpoint of our permanent and always existing Spiritual body. <o:p></o:p> So leaving Goloka is NOT a physical fall down in our nitya siddha body, it is a sub-conscious one where we manifest as our nitya baddha projected sub-conscious state that is compared to a dream state of being. which is the lower self of radiated by the living entity when they forget their perpetual nitya siddha Krishna conscious bodily form. <o:p></o:p> Everything in Krsnaloka is set eternally in the present, meaning Gods eternal blissful Kingdom has no experience or concept of past or future. So what’s there is forever there. This means every living entity is represented there by the bodily form they eternally are. <o:p></o:p> This eternal presents that has no beginning or end in Goloka, is a place of selfless loving devotion. This is Gods or Krishna’s eternal Kingdom where the living entities awareness is meant to always be seeing Krishna in one of the many devotional lilas however, there are some who choose to forget Krishna, his Kingdom, as well as the bodily identity one has there and enter another world called the material creation or mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> Only found in Goloka is who we really are, everlastingly serving Krsna and his devotees and expansions in a blissful body that ultimately out shines all the dream material identities our forgetful mind has created over so many life times. <o:p></o:p> It is therefore; only in Goloka we will find that our perpetual devotional bodily form, endlessly exists living out the living entities 'full potential originality as a nitya siddha embodied devotee of Krsna or Vishnu'. <o:p></o:p> This means ALL living entities or jiva sparks, have a Svarupa body that is eternally unchangeable, eternally youthful, eternally original and eternal a person with bodily form sat, chit, ananda, VIGRAHA. <o:p></o:p> If there is no past or future and only the present, then we are all in a perpetual state of originality there. Remember, the living entity leaves Goloka not as ones eternal Svarupa body, but via their sub-conscious dream, thought, mistaken desires and imagination. <o:p></o:p> So, just as ones material body never changes while one is dreaming they are a King, ones ‘Svarupa’ body never changes while one is living out their self centred dreams in the material world. <o:p></o:p> We must remember that our nitya-siddha-Svarupa body is forever locked and secured perpetually within the ‘eternal present, which is an eternal state of originality’ that has no past and future. <o:p></o:p> This means when one finishes their dreams within the material world and again become ‘aware’ of their full potential ‘Svarupa body, it is like waking up from a dream and finding themselves as the body they always were and always have been. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada explains it this way –“There is nothing to be gained in Goloka, only regained” <o:p></o:p> What does the word "MARGINAL" mean when referring to the living enttity" <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore, two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Letter Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- maya). SB 3.23.10 pp. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp. <o:p></o:p> In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently. <o:p></o:p> So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. <o:p></o:p> It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96) <o:p></o:p> If the marginal living entity chooses to go back to the internal energy (the spiritual world), it still keeps his marginal independence. It does not change his nature into internal energy and becomes Vishnu-tattva. Although the living entities are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna (which is spiritual), they nevertheless keep their marginal independence. Jiva-tattva (the marginal energy) does not turn into Vishnu-tattva (the internal energy), otherwise the living entity would turn into God Himself as in Mayavadi philosophy. <o:p></o:p> Marginal energy can be situated either in the external or internal energy of the Lord and according to the living beings free will and contact with either the material or spiritual energies, the living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of existence. If marginal energy can freely choose to be situated in either external or internal energy, then marginal energy (because of his free will) can also choose to leave either external or internal energy." <o:p></o:p> Here are excerpts from two letters the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu regarding our 'original position'. One letter is from 1968 and one from 1969. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question, in one sense both you and Mahapurusa are right. The fact is that after the dissolution of the Universe the living entities remain in slumber within Maha Visnu, and again when the creation takes place they are impregnated in their original position and they come out in different species of life. By gradual evolutionary process, when they come to the human form there is good chance of getting out of the repeated birth and death, and one can enter into the Spiritual Realm. But if one loses this chance he is again put into the cycle of birth and death. The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Visnu Form, whereas the liberated souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down”. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease". <o:p></o:p> Please offer my blessings to the others. I hope this will meet you in good health." A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (end of discourse only)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>
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