Svarupa

FYI: I choked on the spelling 'Xmas". It may put off others too.

Once again I think saying Xmas is an honest mistake; however, is it a mistake? I was referring to the holiday period by saying Xmas, which is what it is called. Where as Christ-mass is referring to Jesus and the celebration of his birth, I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore, that feast off the flesh of cows.

A pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada had to preach to the Christians to persuade them to take to Krishna Consciousness. Prabhupada never liked devotees reading the Bible because the Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita, Caitanya Caritamrita is so more advanced. And in any case, it would take years to read the Vedas, which is clearly the most advanced knowledge of God given to the human species.

As far as I'm concerned Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and 'Hinduism' will do one of two things, take one to the heavenly planets in the material world, that is if they do not eat meat, or bring one to the point of meeting a bonafide spiritual master in Krishna Consciousness, that are very rare. Here is an example -

I know one story of a young man who eventually became a devotee of Lord Krshna by first going into the main Cathedral in Melbourne to pray to Jesus. In the Church he went down on his knees and, with tears in his eyes, prayed to Jesus, "Please use me in your service, in your plan, my life is now useless, it is better you use me in your plan to spread God Consciousness" He prayed like this for about an hour, then to his suprise, a young devotee in safron robes walked in the Church (Shamananda dasa is a brilliant artist who was admiring the various paintings there). This young man was very moved by the devotee's simplicity and new the mumbling he was hearing must be like the rosary, he was chanting the names of God.

This young man took this as a gift and message of seeing this devotee of Krishna, as an answer to his prayers from Jesus, who was showing him the way.

This young man was amazed at the presents of this young saintly devotee of Krishna and without knowing anything about Krishna, he developed even more tears in his eyes seeing this young devotee as the direct answers to hs prayers. He never took his eyes off Shamananda dasa and when the devotee left, the young man followed him out and watched what he thought was one of Gods angles, walk up the street.

The young man (19 years of age) then walked no more than ten yards up Swanston st, when a bubbling young girl in her mid teens (Krsnapremi dasi) approached him in a beautiful sari with flowers in her hair "Hari Bol'' she said, then continued. " I’m with the Hare Krishna Movement and hear is our magazine Back to Godhead, we are having a love feast tomorrow, come along and experience the ecstasy of Krishna Consciousness” This young man was blown away, as they used to say back then, he was thrilled, he truly believed Jesus had answered his prayers.

Probably the most astonishing thing was when he turned up the next day (February 18th 1972); it was Lord Caitanya’s appearance day. He even played the part of Hari dasa Thakur in a play (because he had a beard) where Lord Nityananda was hit in the head by a clay pot.

Lord Caitanya (played by Kurma dasa) instructed Lord Nityananda Prabhu (played by Ajita dasa) and Haridasa Thakur (played by the young man who only the day before was praying in a Church for direction from Jesus) to go to every one's house in Nadiya and request them to chant <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>’s name. The two great devotees eagerly set forth and began to knock on each and every door with the request, "please chant Krishna’s name, worship Krishna and teach others about <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>." They were happily received by the pious people, while the envious would blaspheme them.

Completely unconcerned by favourable or unfavourable reactions they proceeded around the town. In Nadiya there lived two very sinful brothers called Jagai and Madhai (Played by Upananda dasa and Sanak dasa) Jagai and Madhai were born in pious Brahman families however, due to bad association they had become meat eaters, drunkards, thieves and arsonists. There was no crime that they had not committed, including the most abominable sin of killing cows and Brahmans. The entire town was terrified of these two persons who seemed to be the very personification of all sinful activities.

On the day Nityananda Prabhu and Haridasa Thakur were moving in the town, these two brothers, completely intoxicated were alternatively fighting and embracing each other. After observing them for some time Nityananda Prabhu compassionately decided to deliver them and thus approached them.

Despite the warnings of the town people Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakur, approached the two drunkards instructing them to chant the holy name of the Lord. Hearing these words the two sinners looked up and seeing the two saintly figures roared in anger. They leapt up and ran to catch the two sannyasis. The two devotees fled at the sight of the attacking brothers. Apparently terrified they shouted, "<st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>! Save us!! Govinda!," and ran.

The two brothers where wondered off in their drunken condition along the banks of the <st1:place w:st="on">Ganga</st1:place> where Caitanya Mahaprabhu bathed. Constantly drunk, they started harassing and terrorizing the devotees. Eventually Nityananda and Haridasa went to the <st1:place w:st="on">Ganges</st1:place> to see Lord Caitanya though, were again accosted by the two brothers. On seeing Lord Nityananda, Madhai became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot. When Jagai saw the blood flow from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother. While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation, Haridasa ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident.

Hearing that Nityananda Prabhu had been hurt by the brothers, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them. He summoned His chakra which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers. However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.

Nityananda Prabhu told Caitanya Mahaprabhu that it was Jagai who had saved Him from further harm at Madhai's hand. Hearing this Caitanya Mahaprabhu said to Jagai, "Lord Krishna be merciful to you. By protecting Nityananda you have purchased Me. You may ask any desire you have in your heart. From today on you will have pure love and devotion for <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>" Hearing this Jagai fell at the feet of the two Lords and grasping the feet of Caitanya Mahaprabhu wept.

Seeing the wonderful transformation in his brother, a remorseful Madhai begged for the mercy of the Lord. However, since he had committed the worst of all offences, that of attacking a Vaishnava, the Lord did not even consider all his pitiful pleas for mercy.

Only after Madhai grasped the feet of Nityananda Prabhu and received His mercy that Caitanya Mahaprabhu agree to deliver Madhai also.

That night the young man who took directions from Jesus, joined the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Temple</st1:place></st1:City> and eventually become initiated by Srila Prabhupada. To this very day he is thankful to Jesus who directed him to Srila Prabhupada who in turn began teaching him about <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>’s pastimes.

First of all I shud admit that u must have been a great devotee right since your last birth, or u must have done such a good thing (punya) in your last life that you got a wondeful opportunity to associate with a pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada.. And that makes you a pure devotee,, it does and will not matter what faith you followed, you fall in the category who get the utmost respect in the minds and hearts of the devotees...And may I thank you for all that you have done....

 

I bend and prostrate against you...

 

Hari bol

So innocent, Krishnadasa. What you should be saying is how merciful and kind Srila Prabhupada was for accepting me as his disciple. Srila Prabhupada is an ocean of mercy and even his chastisement is the most wonder gift because how can you EVER forget Prabhupada after being chastised by him?

I guess I haven't met many of those. Nor have I met one that can properly describe the basic nature of the soul.

1. First comment see new thread on Jews believe in reincarnation

2. Well there is only two possibilities here, you came down from Goloka or was generated as a new soul from the Brahmajyoti

Seeing you, not I brought this up, the only answer to this is only found within your relationship with Srila Prabhupada. I gather you are also one of Prabhupada's original devotee's?

Anyway Hare Krishna, merry Christmas on this eve of the birth of Jesus and a happy new year.

Yes interesting story but no really an answer to my question.

 

Holding up some bogus characters from the Catholic Church with a handgun as a reason to reject the person of Christ is like hlding up Kirtananda or Hamsadhuta as a reason to reject Srila Prabhupada.

 

I am always interested in disciples who claim Srila Prabhupada as their guru but reject his clear statements on Christ.

 

But it is really your business.

Very good and true point however, who said I rejected or accepted Christianity?? I must clearly point out I was only saying what the Jews believe and what our indoctrination was as a child.

I don't mean to be provocative in anyway.

Never did I personally say I did not believed the teachings of Jesus Christ, I just find both Juduism and the teachngs of Jesus very restricted and really meant for a more primitive human society.

Once a devotee was studying the Bible and finding quotes and then searching the Vedas in an attempt to explain it further. Madhuvisa (then swami) told Prabhupada what this devotee is doing.

Srila Prabhupada said "Why is this devotee spending so much time on reading the Bible when we have so many books to read? Tell him to read Bhagavat gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, if he keeps reading the Bible he will become a Christian"

Not that there is anything wrong with that

Anyway that devotee could not break free from his Christian upbring and eventualy DID become a Christian.

Srila Prabhupada: Krsna, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And Krsna says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Krsna. So if anyone loves Krsna, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love Krsna. If he says, "Why shall I love Krsna? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands Krsna, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand Krsna" Discussion wth Allen Ginsberg May 29th Columbus Ohio

The fact that reincarnation is part of Jewish tradition comes as a surprise to many people. Nevertheless, it's mentioned in numerous places throughout the classical texts of Jewish mysticism, starting with the preeminent sourcebook of Kabbalah, the Zohar :12

As long as a person is unsuccessful in his purpose in this world, the Holy One, blessed be He, uproots him and replants him over and over again. (Zohar I 186b)

All souls are subject to reincarnation; and people do not know the ways of the Holy One, blessed be He! They do not know that they are brought before the tribunal both before they enter into this world and after they leave it; they are ignorant of the many reincarnations and secret works which they have to undergo, and of the number of naked souls, and how many naked spirits roam about in the other world without being able to enter within the veil of the King's Palace. Men do not know how the souls revolve like a stone that is thrown from a sling. But the time is at hand when these mysteries will be disclosed. (Zohar II 99b)

The Zohar and related literature 13 are filled with references to reincarnation, 14 addressing such questions as which body is resurrected and what happens to those bodies that did not achieve final perfection, 15 how many chances a soul is given to achieve completion through reincarnation, 16 whether a husband and wife can reincarnate together,17 if a delay in burial can affect reincarnation,18 and if a soul can reincarnate into an animal. 19

The Bahir, attributed to the first century sage, Nechuniah ben Hakanah, used reincarnation to address the classic question of theodicy -- why bad things happen to good people and vice versa:

Why is there a righteous person to whom good things happen, while [another] righteous person has bad things happen to him? This is because the [latter] righteous person did bad in a previous [life], and is now experiencing the consequences? What is this like? A person planted a vineyard and hoped to grow grapes, but instead, sour grapes grew. He saw that his planting and harvest were not successful so he tore it out. He cleaned out the sour grape vines and planted again. When he saw that his planting was not successful, he tore it up and planted it again. (Bahir 195)20

Reincarnation is cited by authoritative classic biblical commentators, including Ramban21 (Nachmanides), Menachem Recanti 22 and Rabbenu Bachya.23 Among the many volumes of the holy Rabbi Yitzchak Luria, known as the "Ari,"24 most of which come down to us from the pen of his primary disciple, Rabbi Chaim Vital, are profound insights explaining issues related to reincarnation. Indeed, his Shaar HaGilgulim, "The Gates of Reincarnation," 25 is a book devoted exclusively to the subject, including details regarding the soul-roots of many biblical personalities and who they reincarnated into from the times of the Bible down to the Ari.

The Ari's teachings and systems of viewing the world spread like wildfire after his death throughout the Jewish world in Europe and the ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comMiddle East</st1:place>. If reincarnation had been generally accepted by Jewish folk and intelligentsia beforehand, it became part of the fabric of Jewish idiom and scholarship after the Ari, inhabiting the thought and writings of great scholars and leaders from classic commentators on the Talmud (for example, the Maharsha, Rabbi Moshe Eidels ),26 to the founder of the Chassidic Movement, the Baal Shem Tov, as well as the leader of the non-Chassidic world, the Vilna Gaon. 27

The trend continues down to this day. Even some of the greatest authorities who are not necessarily known for their mystical bent assume reincarnation to be an accepted basic tenet.

One of the texts the mystics like to cite as a scriptural allusion to the principle of reincarnation is the following verse in the Book of Job:

Behold, all these things does God do -- twice, even three times with a man -- to bring his soul back from the pit that he may be enlightened with the light of the living. (Job 33:29)

In other words, God will allow a person to come back to the world "of the living" from "the pit" (which is one of the classic biblical terms for Gehinnom or "Purgatory") a second and even third (or multitude of) time(s). Generally speaking, however, this verse and others are understood by mystics as mere allusions to the concept of reincarnation. The true authority for the concept is rooted in the tradition.

This is an excerpt from Soul Searching, Targum Press, by Yaakov Astor.

HARE KRISHNA. Also it is beleved that the early Christians, right up until the third or fourth century believed in reincarnation.

That's a new one...I've always assumed mainstream Judaism rejected the idea of reincarnation and left it to fringe or mystical sects of the faith, as Christianity has historically done..

You assumed wrong, ALL mainstream Jews belIeve in reincarnation

Fair point, I was only saying what the Jews believe. My post was started with some frivolousness and if I offended you or Jesus Christ I apologize.

These days I have no time for Judaism or Christianity. As far as I am concerned, fundamentalist Christians are just as fanatic as extremist Muslims. If you distributed books in the 70s, I’m sure you would have had your fair share of Christian fanatics trying to stop you as I did.

My experience of modern day Christianity is as follows.

In 1976 I was Srila Prabhupada’s Body guard and not only stayed out the front of his room, but slept there as well. At the time four well shaven suited men would always come by the Temple, they where part of a Catholic Church society that dealt with threats to the Church. One time Pushta Krishna Maharaj went down to speak to them and one of them threatened to kill Srila Prabhupada. Hari Sauri prabhu was so concerned we bought a shot gun, although I would have preferred a mini-14 with a thirty round mag. Anyway another time I was outside hiding in a car as these men walk past and when I opened the door, one pulled out a hand gun.

Amoga dasa was at the front gate and out of fear, I crawled the front wall of the Temple, about 7 feet high at the time, so quickly that Amoga was astonished. We told Prabhupada what had had happened and he said ‘Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened’ we called the police and they spoke with them and Ugrashava dasa.

The police did nothing, they new who he was, while Ugrashava just called them dogs of the Catholic Church among other things. The ring leader had been knighted by the Pope, a private detective and a rumoured hit man. At night I would stay out on the balcony of Prabhupada’s House with the shot gun, I stayed awake watching Srila Prabhupada translate late into the night, then he would go around to all the windows and doors to make sure they where locked.

A week after Srila Prabhupada had left, a drive by shooting occurred and gunshots went through one of the windows - Kurma dasa's room. He was there at the time and was fortunately unhurt. The next day it made page two of the paper. A few months after that someone through a small bomb over the back fence exploding in one of the cars, which made the first bulletin on the evening news. The out cry of the public seemed to stop any further attacks from these Catholic fanatics.

During all these attacks we remembered what Srila Prabhupada had said ‘Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened’

Hare Krishna

Coming from a Jewish background, we never believed in Christ-mass. Even when met Prabhupada in 1971, many devotees back then where from the Jewish faith. Reincarnation is a solid belief of Judaism so it was easy for me and my old sparring mate Kurma the excentric cook, who was also Jewish, to take too Krishna Consciousness.

Jews consider that Jesus was a only a teacher and leader, assuming he existed. Some of them think he only created a Jewish sect among many other Jewish sects, and that the one who really founded what we call Christianism was Paul. Jesus was not the Messiah because he did not fulfill the mission of the Messiah. For example, he was not a real king, he did not bring peace to the world and he did not come from the lineage of David (since Joseph was not his real father). Therefore, Jews are still waiting for the Messiah.

Just as you have said, Maha-Vishnu, through Hs transcendental pours, is still breathing out so natually the universe is expanding. It is certainly not expandng from 'so called' new souls being created or generated from the Brahmajytoti (an old wifes tale), that is not possible because ALL living beings are eternal without beginning or end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE DREAMING MAHA-VISHNU.

 

And His mahat-tattva universe coming from the pours of His Skin that continuously expand the material universes until He begins to breath in.

"As long as one breath of MahaVishnu is exhaled, the universe exists for that time span only.

 

Actually what modern science boasts of knowing today, our Veda Rishis found it long ago.

 

As long as MahaVishnu exhales, the Universe expands, when He stops, the Universe stops expanding and when inhales, the Universe begins to recede."

Merry Krishna and a happy Hare Rama!

All glories to all the wonderful devotees on Audarya Fellowship over the Xmas period and the coming new year of 2008. All glories to Radha and Krshna, Lord Caitanya and Srila Prabhupada and everyone’s respective Spiritual Master, whose only desires are to see the whole world engaged in Sankirtan, or the congregational chanting of Hare Krishna in every city, town and village all over the world.

The basics of the origins debate

In fact constantly posting threads that we originated from Goloka can only cause many to become confused, frustrated, angry, and offensive because they cannot prove that Prabhupada did not say we all originally came down from Vaikuntha – which they will never prove because the fact is, our eternal home IS Goloka and always has been.

Others, on the other hand cannot agree with us because it would be going against the teachings of their guru maharaja. Even if they contemplated the fact that all jiva souls, not only originate from Goloka, but are always there in Goloka, even if they are presently visualising (dreaming) a world of their own in the mahat-tattva, then such followers would be contradicting the teachings of their Guru. Such Guru’s like Narayana Maharaj or Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja are always telling them the fallacy that they have originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti and they have NEVER been to Goloka or Vaikuntha.

It is because their guru maharaj tells them they have originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, based on their interpretation of previous Acharyas and their often dubious translations from Sanskrit and Bengali into English, they have convinced themselves and their followers of an Impersonal origin. Srila Prabhupada rejected such impersonal ideas because his teachings clearly tell us, we have all came down from Goloka some millions of years ago.

So the conclusion is, instead of arguing, just get on with the preaching message of Lord Caitanya, go on street Sankirtan every few days. Chant Hare Krishna and give out Prabhupada’s books

Why do most people have a problem accepting the "fall down" theory, when it can be explained quite easily. OTOH, the opposite cannot be explained with logic and shastra.

 

Every jiva is dreaming this material world, which is similar to a king dreaming he's a beggar. In reality, the king is not a beggar, but the intensity of the dream is so strong that he IS a beggar for all practical purposes. Likewise, every jiva is nitya siddha, but maya is so powerful he's also a badha jiva (even though, technically, he's not).

 

Obviously, this puts an end to the apparent contradiction as to how a jiva can be both, or whether there can be a fall down. Fall down IS and ISN'T, going by the dream analogy.

 

So simple and easy to understand. Why can't people accept this, instead of fighting over this like petty minded people?

Quote:

<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr style=""><td style="border: 1pt solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 4.5pt 0.25in; background: rgb(224, 224, 224) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">Originally Posted by Sarva gattah

The individual living entity can be influenced and come under the dominion of the Cit Sakti, or of the Maya Sakti.

However, regardless of this fact, the living entities full potential expression is perpetually found within the eternal presents of Goloka as their endless body serving Krishna.

We, the living entities, express ourselves there in our full potential in <st1:place w:st="Krishna</st1:place"> they are eternally. Always being aware of their nitya siddha eternal identity.

</font""><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>'s service eternally. </st1:place></st1:place>

It is there in Goloka or Vaikuntha, the individual living entity is who she really is in the perpetual ‘present’, as ‘their’ endless nitya siddha identity, personality, individuality serving in Krishna's Lila's.

The living entity is the marginal potency of the Lord known as the jiva-tattva, that is 'eternally established' in their full potential as nitya siddha in an eternal loving relationship with Krishna in Goloka, or in a perpetual loving servitor relationship with His Vishnu-tattva expansions in the Vaikunthas.

However, being the individual living entities ,or marginal potencies of the Lord, also means they all have a choice, and can also enter the material creation or mahat-tattva if they choose, as their nitya-baddha secondary conscious condition.

It is there in the material creation, the living entities are covered by the mahat-tattva's material energy however, the living entities are not a product of matter, they only are covered by matter in the form of ethereal and biological bodily containers provided by Maha-Vishnu

The living entities can therefore use their free will to choose and remain under the dominion of the Cit Sakti, as the endless servant of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> they are eternally. Always being aware of their nitya siddha eternal identity.

Or the living entities can come under the influence of the Maya Sakti as their temporary non <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> conscious nitya baddha dreaming condition.

The living entity in this nitya-baddha condition can only be covered by Maya's s'akti or material vessels within the mahat-tattva.

All material bodies are provided by the wife of Maha-Vishnu in order for the living entity to seek out their mistaken desires that are part of Maya's s'akti's or her control over the material energy.

No individual living entity can originate from the lifeless mahat-tattva.

The living entities can only visit the material creation and be covered by material bodies, provided and facilitated by Maha-Vishnu.

The living entities eternal nitya-siddha bodily personality has different names in different pastimes due to the fact that they never fall down.

In fact most the living entities NEVER allow their awareness of being nitya-siddha to be covered by the non <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> conscious 'dream state' or the living entities nitya-baddha consciousness.

The nitya-siddhas never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha, some living entities however, 'imagine', 'think' or 'dream' they, do while most never enter the nitya baddha world of imagination and therefore never experience the shackles of Maya.

There are only two types of living entities, Visnu tattva and Jiva Tattva.

Srila Prabhupada - "It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy" Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109

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Originally Posted by Sarva gattah

Due to the free will every marginal living entity has, each can choose to either remain in the 'eternal present' of Goloka or Vaikuntha as who they really are serving Krishna, or they can imagine, think, dream or visualize a world of their own without Krishna. That world they visualise is provided by Krishna via His Maha-Vishnu expansion and is called the mahat-tattva.

While in the mahat-tattva the living entity dreams of so many different bodies, some are enjoyable while others are nightmarish. Such illusional realities, that are real but temporary, only occur within the mahat-tattva however, it is a fact that while we are dreaming within the mahat-tattva, we are actually ALWAYS in Goloka or Vaikuntha.

As Srila Prabhupada says - "We are actually never fallen, we only 'dream' or 'think' we are fallen". That dream state is called the nitya-baddha and it is that 'consciousness' that experiences the temporary pains, nightmares and pleasures while the living entity continues to forget Krishna and who 'we' really are, which is nitya-siddha devotees of Krishna eternally.

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha.

Srila Prabhupada -“The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48 Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

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Hare Krishna All the above is actually quotes from 'The sercret Book of Origins' that is being published in Feb 2008

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="600"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">An Australian devotee drank four cans of red bull on a hot Australian day and ends up with heart attack and rushed to Hospital

The Swedish National Food Administration has issued a public warning about the energy drink

The energy drink Red Bull is under investigation in Sweden after reports at least three people died after drinking it. The Swedish National Food Administration (NFA) is heading the investigation, and has issued a public warning, telling people not to take Red Bull mixed with alcohol, or after heavy exercise.

The three healthy young people who died are all thought to have drunk Red Bull shortly before their deaths.

But the energy drink's manufacturers said there was no proof the deaths were linked to Red Bull.

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</td></tr></tbody></table> Two of the victims died after mixing the drink with vodka.

One woman, named only as Therese, 31, collapsed on the floor of a nightclub in March this year.

Her boyfriend John Andersson told a national newspaper: "Suddenly she just fell down beside me. Her heart had stopped and she was completely lifeless.

A third person died after drinking several cans of the energy drink following a heavy workout at the gym.

Precaution

Doctors at Stockholm's South Hospital will lead the investigation.

Anders Glynn, of the NFA's toxicology department told BBC News Online: "The public warning is a precaution.

"At this point, its just a suspicion and we really don't know why , as it is a suspicion the physicians have reported to the press."

A spokeswoman for the manufacturers of Red Bull told BBC News Online: "This is one story that's been not based on facts, and has been fuelled by speculation."

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Catherine Collins: says energy drinks could lower blood pressure

</td></tr></tbody></table> She added the Swedish NFA had issued the public warning "without having the full information".

"They need to be seen to be precautionary, but there's no proof that Red Bull is harmful when mixed."

She said the company would be working with the NFA to prove the drink was safe.

Catherine Collins, of the British Dietetic Association, said: "There's been quite a lot of research looking at are the effects of Red Bull on the heart and circulation.

"And they have shown that if you take sufficient Red Bull, and other drinks that are performance enhancing, you can lower blood pressure and that may be the cause of the problem."

Concerns

Last year, the coroner at the inquest into the death of 18-year-old Ross Cooney from Limerick, called for more research into the effect of energy drinks.

Ross died of sudden adult death syndrome after a basketball match. Hours earlier he had drunk three cans of Red Bull.

The Times newspaper reports Norway, Denmark and France have classed the drink as medicinal because of its high caffeine content.

Red Bull also contains taurine, a building block for protein and helps digest food. A small amount is thought to be beneficial, but some studies have suggested a small risk to health.

Last year, one billion cans of Red Bull were bought worldwide.

The UK's Food Standards Agency said it was not planning an investigation.

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The 22 FACTS ABOUT OUR ORIGIN

 

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1. - By virtue of His internal energy, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place> and His tatastha s’akti <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = " /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia.

2. - By means of His marginal energy (tatastha sakti), <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> exhibits Himself as the living entities.

3. - And by means of His external energy <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> exhibits Himself as material energy.

4. - We eternally exist as independent parts and parcels of Krishna as His marginal energy, also known as His marginal living entities or Jiva-tatastha’s.

<st1:place w:st="on"></st1:place>

<st1:place w:st="on">5. - Krishna is</st1:place> the cause of all causes, the personification of the internal energy and the facilitator and maintainer of His external material energy.

6 - Tatastha is not a region in some ‘in-between’ place, plain or impersonal location in the middle of the spiritual creation and the material creation.

7. - Jiva souls are not being constantly “impersonally” generated and created from the brahmajyoti. We are eternal living beings with no beginning or end, as the Bhagavad gita tells us

8. - We are perpetual jiva souls with no commencement or termination, as the Bhagavad gita tells us.

9. - The marginal living entities (jiva-tatastha’s) are endlessly under the influence of free will that can choose between serving Lord Krishna in Goloka, or be a slave to His (as the Maha-Vishnu expansion) illusionary energy in His mahat-tattva or material creation.

10. - Due to the eternal present in Goloka, our authentic everlasting nitya-siddha bodily higher self characteristic of our jiva tatastha, is always serving Krishna, regardless.

11. - However, we can choose to ignore <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> and not be aware of who we really and (nitya-baddha) and take shelter of the perishable inferior energy or mahat-tattva material creation of Maha-Vishnu.

12. - This inferior material energy, like a cloud that covers the sun, covers our awareness of who we really are in the perpetual ‘present’. And puts us in the illusion of past, present and future that’s effect is decay and forgetfulness.

 

13. - There are only two types of living entities, Visnu tattva and Jiva Tattva

14. - Tatastha does not refer to a place; it does not possess a locative meaning in the sense of being in a particular spot. Tatastha has an ontological meaning.

15. - Tatastha s’akti is not a position; it refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as an individual living being under the influence of either the <st1:place w:st="on">Superior</st1:place> energy or the inferior energy eternally.

16. - The jiva is a sakti of the Lord, exists as neither Cit Sakti nor as Maya Sakti, we exist in between these two categories of saktis, and therefore we are called Tatastha.

17. - The place where water, as in a river an ocean or lake, where it meets the land, that is called tata.

18. - The Cit Sakti is represented by the water and the Maya Sakti us represented by the land. Since we are neither the Maya Sakti nor the Cit Sakti, neither the water nor the land, we are called tatastha, or the in-between the water and the land.

19. - The tide can cause us to be submerged in water or the tide can retreat and we can become left on the land. The jiva can be influenced and come under the dominion of the Cit Sakti or of the Maya Sakti.

20. - Some claim that there is a third type of living entity whom they refer to as sakti-tattva, they claim that Radha and her plenary expansions belong to that third category and that they are not Visnu Tattva, the fact is that Sri Radha and her plenary expansions are both Isvara-Tattva (Isvari) or Visnu-Tattva and sakti-Tattva.

21. - Sri Radha is the not only the primary sakti of the Lord she is also identical to the Lord. She is Visnu Tattva.

22. - The full possible expression of the jiva tatastha, is within the eternal ‘present’ of Goloka, we, the Jiva tatastha are expressed there as who we really are in the perpetual ‘present’ as our perpetual identity, personality and individuality that is endlessly serving beautiful Krishna in our perpetual ‘svarupa’ as nitya siddha.

This is the facts according to Srila Prabhupada

The full possible expression of the jiva tatastha is eternally found within the perpetual ‘present’ of Goloka, we, the Jiva tatastha are expressed there as who we really are in our endless body within that realm of perpetual ‘presents’

It is there our perpetual identity, personality and individuality is endlessly serving beautiful Krishna in our perpetual ‘svarupa’ body as nitya siddha, even if we sometimes forget that fact and 'dream' or 'think' we are in the material world.

Hare Krishna

Who cares what some nonsense scholar says

This is the fact according to Srila Prabhupada

The full possible expression of the jiva tatastha is eternally found within the perpetual ‘present’ of Goloka, we, the Jiva tatastha are expressed there as who we really are in our endless body within that realm of perpetual ‘presents’

It is there our perpetual identity, personality and individuality is endlessly serving beautiful Krishna in our perpetual ‘svarupa’ body as nitya siddha, even if we sometimes forget that fact and 'dream' or 'think' we are in the material world.

Hare Krishna

We have heard that when Guru Nanak (the saint in India who founded the Sikh religion) was young, his father told him, "Go to the market and bring back the ingredients we need to sell at our shop." On the way to the market he came upon many Vaisnavas and sadhus. Seeing that there was no management of prasadam for them, he quickly went to the market and bought all the paraphernalia needed to make a festival for them, and for that purpose he spent all his father's money. He later returned home empty-handed, and his father asked, "Where are the ingredients I told you to buy – the rice, dahl, ghee and other things?"

Guru Nanak replied, "I did the shopping, but I have given all the goods for the service of Vaisnavas. In this way I have done some very good shopping for my future life and for the benefit of my whole dynasty." He had so much strong belief in Krsna; he knew that if one serves Krsna, Krsna will give him everything he needs.

One will always hear that discernment is not for the vaisnava, that one must put personal intellect in the box and just surrender. However, this idea has no place at all.. .. Personal ambition should never be tossed aside. If one does not have self preservation, then there is no life there, just zombies. A zombie doing crimes for prabhupada is a zombie criminal, nothing more.

 

Ambition is like all neutral things, How one utilizes natural ambition is the key, not ambition alone. ... So, those control freaks that insist the ambition be artificially renounced, as one last party before such a leap is done should be analysis of the ambition of he who tells ya that ambition must be given up. Why is he saying this? You will find almost every time that such an instruction is merely a device to make you a servant of anothers selfish ambition.

 

Keep ambition, use it to ones best benefit, in Krsna's service.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasaq

All who have success in 'real' preaching chose to use their ambition and talents to serve Krishna. its not that Krishna just makes us his 'mindless' puppet and then works through us. We never loose our individuality or ambition to please Krishna. The posts by 'krsna' speak for themselves, so many cut and post quotes trying to force the old guard mentality of 'surrender prabhoooo' Its mentalities like his in ISKCON that could again create the dark and middle ages in Europe, when the Catholic church also never allowed the "so called poison of Ambition"

The real poison in ISKCON cames from those who try to destroy personal realizations and the ambition to please Krshna

The idea that material life 'makes us who we are' totally contradicts the philosophy of 'aham brahmasmi' - I am spirit.

The body is an illusory convering and the process of self realization is to throw off this consciousness and rediscover 'who we are' - sat cit anananda vigraha

Can and has been miss used, be vagilant. Bhagavan, Bhavananda and Tamal Krishna used the above to convience devotees that there is no need to 'think' as we (ISKCON) would do the thinking for you. So many lives they reuined. Srila Prabhupada was very ambitious for Krishna but many in ISKCON (one 'mad' cook I remember) just expect us to be robots with their sterotype sayings 'surrender prabhoooo surrender prabhooo. It's not over yet

Did man land on the moon, or did a man inside a spacesuit land on the moon?

 

Can a man live on the moon?

When we look at the sky at night do we see the moon or some other planet like Rahu? I have a lot of trouble explaining and understanding the whole lunar controversy. I am willing to accept that the lunar mission landed elsewhere other than the moon. I just feel like a stubborn idiot when trying to defend Srila Prabhupada's comments on the matter by using the theory that the whole landing was filmed in some fake stage. The hard bit is to accept that the lunar mission traveled towards the moon that we see in the night sky, but didn’t get there.

Srila Prabhupada, based on his firm conviction in the Vedic truth, challenged the lunar-mission on two accounts: (1) it is not possible to reach the heavenly moon by mechanical means; (2) the moon is not a barren desert devoid of life.

According to Vedic evidence, the moon is counted among the heavenly planets and is inhabited by heavenly denizens who live for 10,000 years and is presided by the Deity Candra; only those with much pious credits can enter the moon, and that only after attaining a suitable body fit to live there. Even if humans made the effort for mechanical travel towards the moon, we are dependent on the authority of Candra to actually reach there. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada was convinced that man could not have landed on the moon.

One explanation offered by Prabhupada was perhaps they were deluded and diverted by higher authorities to the invisible planet Rahu (incidentally, Rahu is connected to the ascending node of the moon, astronomically.) He also offered other possible explanations, including one that the whole thing might have been faked (which, by the way, is a prominent proposal by several modern writers).

In any case, the basic principle that Prabhupada wanted us to understand is the unreliability of empirical methods which are always open to question. At present, we do not have sufficient empiric facts to prove either way, while based on Vedic assertions, to the contrary, he urged us to think and question rather than blindly accept the claim of man landing on the moon and finding it lifeless.

One of the scientist-disciples of Prabhupada, Sadaputa dasa, who has done much work in laying the scientific framework for understanding the cosmological materials from Bhagavatam, explores this subject from a higher-dimensional perspective: A higher dimensional realm may have a 3-dimensional location, just as a three-dimensional object has its location in two-dimensional space. For example, if one needs to reach a certain office in Manhattan, one could move up, down and across the grid of streets and arrive at the right address, and yet may not be able to perceive the office one is looking for; to reach the actual destination, they may have to further move 50 stories in the vertical dimension, and a being whose sense-perception is restricted to two-dimensions only cannot access this region. ( Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy by Sadaputa Dasa, Ch 3)

This is a crude example but by way of drawing a parallel, even supposing that astronauts might have reached the phenomenal moon which the event itself is not beyond question even so, they still could not have made the higher-dimensional travel necessary to perceive the moon's heavenly inhabitants and surroundings. Being restricted in the gross realm, they would have had to return with the impressions of a lifeless planet.

THE ETERNAL 'PRESENT'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chanting Hare Krishna is the only way to be delivered in this age of Kali-Yuga

 

 

Here is pure shastra:

 

BG 15.16

There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible (kshara), and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible (akshara).

 

In the purport to this verse Prabhupada says: "According to the statement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna, there are two classes of living entities. The Vedas give evidence of this, so there is no doubt about it."

 

This is confirmed by Lord Caitanya (CC Madhya 22.10-12)

 

"The living entities [jīvas] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned.

 

"Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at the feet of Lord Krsna. They are to be considered eternal associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna.

 

"Apart from the ever-liberated devotees, there are the conditioned souls, who always turn away from the service of the Lord. They are perpetually conditioned in this material world and are subjected to the material tribulations brought about by different bodily forms in hellish conditions."

 

Thank you for the information I appreciate all the quotes and research you have mentioned and agree with these quotes however, what does all this mean, you quote -

There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible (kshara), and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible (akshara).

In the purport to this verse Prabhupada says: "According to the statement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna, there are two classes of living entities. The Vedas give evidence of this, so there is no doubt about it."

This is confirmed by Lord Caitanya (CC Madhya 22.10-12)

"The living entities [jīvas] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned.

"Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at the feet of Lord Krsna. They are to be considered eternal associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna.

A - Yes Srila Prabhupada explains there are nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha, but what does this mean? Srila Prabhupada explains – “You are NOT eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA)’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968.

Srila Prabhupada is saying that nitya siddha MEANS never fall down, he issaying that nitya siddha’s can be covered over only and their memory of being nitya-siddha forgotten, like one forgets their material body while dreaming. What he means by saying nitya siddha's never fall down, is they are always nitya-siddhas just like the sun is always the sun even though it might be covered by the clouds. Nitya siddha means eternally liberated or established, so when a nitya siddha becomes covered, like the cloud covers the sun, he becomes eternally conditioned or nitya baddha (due to the cloud covering)

B - Jiva-tatastha - Tatastha s’akti is not a place; it refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as an individual living being. Jiva tatastha therefore is us or ‘our’ perpetual identity, personality, individuality. Jiva-tatastha is also known as the marginal living entity or jiva-tattva that can established in a loving relationship with Krishna in Goloka, or a loving servitor relationship with His Vishnu-tattva expansions in Vaikuntha. Nitya-siddha’s have different names in different pastimes due to the fact that they never fall down.

YOU QUOTE

"Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at the feet of Lord Krsna. They are to be considered eternal associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna.

"Apart from the ever-liberated devotees, there are the conditioned souls, who always turn away from the service of the Lord. They are perpetually conditioned in this material world and are subjected to the material tribulations brought about by different bodily forms in hellish conditions."

The correct author is Vigraha <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha

"The material bodies we presently occupy are the belongings of Maha-Vishnu that we charter off him to pursue our selfish desires of material grander. Each material vessel of subtle and ethereal components are always the property of their proprietor, Maha-Vishnu, who provides such vessels that correspond with the material desires of those who have chosen to come down from Goloka as their nitya-baddha consciousness and experience their mistaken selfish desires.

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<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha

Each pathway of all vessels are already mapped out by Maha-Vishnu within His MAHAT-TATTVA creation, ones pathway within the material creation is already set and known by Maha-Vishnu, even before they take birth in such vessels. Such container always remains the property of Maha-Vishnu.

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if we are all nitya-siddhas, who are the nitya-baddhas? why are we even talking about TWO classes of living entities, if you claim we are ALL nitya-siddhas? perhaps the sadhus who wrote the shastras were not aware of the TRUTH (the sleeper-vada)?

 

And who exactly are you calling an uneducated indian old fool? the tatastha region of brahmajyoti origin of living entities was clearly accepted by both Bhaktivinoda and Bhaktisiddhanta. Are you trying to offend them as well?

I am being courteous enough to answer in proper etiquette without any angry, nasty abuse, posts, if you reply, be scriptural and courteous. I am no longer getting involve with abusive posts

Yours sincerely Svarupa dasa

Answer to question 1 - There is only one reality and that is Goloka and its surrounding Vaikuntha planets.

A - Reality means eternally established in the 'endless present', where there is no past or future, as we know it.

B -There is also only nitya-siddhas, one class of living entity in Goloka’s eternal presents serving <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place>. Everything else is simply and illusion (see E) that that we create with our mind due to our freewill. We make the choice in our independent way of thinking that sub-consciously appears to make us leave Goloka and our awareness of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, but actually we have not gone anywhere, we have only imagined we have.

C -That independent mistaken desire and choice, covers our awareness like a cloud covers the sun, but actually we are the same person, there is only the nitya-siddha devotee, but due to the cloud cover it only appears there are two classes of living entities.

D – The name for that covered state, that is the product of thought of the mind, is nitya-baddha, but actually nothing has really changed, one is the same one person they have always been, which is nitya-siddha, but due to being covered, we cannot see that, in fact. we are now convinced we are the covered nitya-baddha because we are no longer aware of who we really are (nitya-siddha)

E - In other words, just as the cloud covers our view of the sun, our covered state is real, but temporary.

D - This is known to the sadhu’s and Acharayas and for you and I to actually realize this, we must be Krishna Consciousness. I know this is hard to understand because of the Gaudiya math and even some ISKCON devotee’s interpretations, but we must thoroughly search out the scriptures for answers. Also, just because one’s an Indian, American, English, German, Russian, Australian or Chinese Sadu or even Sanskrit scholar, does not make his opinion correct. Sadhu, shastra and guru are the only way. And each of us has to work that one out for ourselves.

Answer to question 2 –No-one in particular, who ever feels guilty enough for the shoe to fit, India, nay, the entire world is full of bogus so called sadu's, guru's and sannyasis claiming to be anything from god to Impersonalists and even personalists. The cheaters and the cheated.