Priitaa

You might want to lighten up on Crimal. He is a new devotee and just trying to figure these things out for himself as well. And I really dont think we should be calling anyone lazy, or anything, unless we know for a fact they are.

Haribol Leela, The first thing that came to my mind was that Prabhupada left India because many there did not want to hear the truth. Its kali yuga in India too ya know. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Merely because they are doing something in India, does not mean it is correct. Acuracy is derrived from following a pure devotee in a bona fide parampara system (lineage), not whats 'popular'in India - or popular anywhere. One reason your friend may find fault with Prabhupada's Sanskrit in the Gita, etc., is because it is SO refined and SO expert, that many are not 'that' educated in Sanskrit. Long story short, a godsister told me a story about Gaura Govinda Maharja. Even his previous Sanskrit teacher, a teacher respected in India as very expert in understanding the subtle meanings of Sanskrit and Gita, Gour Govinda M. showed him Prabhupada's version and this previous teacher commented that Prabhupada understood even more subtle meanings then he himself understood! As for demi-god worship, that has always gone on in India but it doesn't even make sense that the 'various' demi-gods would be required to equal the power of One Supreme God. However if you are speaking about Lord Shiva that is another topic, as there have been debates amongst the Krishna Bhaktas and followers of Lord Shiva since ages gone by regarding which one of them is God. ha Now, the devotees of Lord Krishna know Lord Shiva is unique in the fact that he is part Vishnu tattva and part Jiva tattva. That is part God, part regular soul like us, tho he is completely pure. We recognize Lord Shiva as the greatest Vaisnava or devotee of Lord Krishna. But those who worship Lord Shiva as if he's 100% God, they do not similarly offer much in return to Krsna Bhaktas. If your friend is a devotee of Ram that does not mean he is not an impersonalist or mayavadi. Its hard to tell from the little info of him here, but it really doesn't matter. Sounds like he's doing his best to either convert you or take away all your faith if you dont convert. Best way to understand Prabhupada's books are to read them for yourself! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Regularly. Then you will always 'know' an answer to this or any such person, not based on blind faith but on factual knowlege.

There are many differences between a Course in Miracles and Krishna consciousness, and of course some similarities. One big difference, however, is that we know who God is! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Crimal, You are correct that too many dont spend enough time with their potential guru. Many dont know what they are getting into either. Then they get into it, or figure it out, and feel they 'have' to stick with all of it now. It can get quite messy, as I have seen devotees go thru this and it takes years, even decades, to process sometimes. Its better to take your time figuring out who you want as guru. Read Prabhupada's books and search for a variety of types of quotes or comments, instructions really, on the topic. Right now your uncertainty comes from not knowing these things, and that is resolved thru study. Dont take my opinion, or anyones opinion, on what to do here. You must take your own, which is developed after good amount of study time is invested into it. And it sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders, or good gut instincts. Go with that and see where it takes you.

Oops! Mistake.

Thank you Thiest for that intelligent reply. Oftentimes we dont like to accept the cause of anything as karma, but that too is because we often do not understand what karma is. Its not a blanket excuse used to make catastrophie, big or small, acceptable. I suspect this is the misunderstanding. So no, that is not karma. I don't have time to give a lengthy explanation of the laws of karma, but I feel you have helped make the point that whether one is killed in large numbers such as earthquake or war, or else killed in the streets by knifepoint, they are still killed, and it is the result of karma. We may not be able at first to comprehend this cruelty with our human brains. Karma is a material law really. The material energy is not always so nice. It is only through spiriutal life that we can get free of karma. So everyone, please chant Hare Krishna! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for that story. Interesting. I can't even imagine an attraction to fish. Tho I suppose some like it. When I was a child my mother was the one to prepared this. It wasn't until I went off to college that I decided to give it a shot. Actually, I thought I was on my way to becoming a vegetarian, and technically I was. It was a step up. Anyhow I bought a real fish (ugh!) and scaled one for the first time. I thought that everyone else does this, so why can't I do it? Now I know why. I was meant to be a vegetarian. After it was cooked, both myself and friends found scales in it. That was the last time I ever did that. Anyone attratcted to fish should buy the real thing & not canned, cut out those eyes that keep looking at you, and try to pay attention to subtle sensations how yucky the whole process feels. Of course in the case of the young man's wife, if she is 'use' to doing this it may take some sensitization, but it can be done. Not until she's ready. (She ought to check out Loma Linda.) But also in her case, it sounds like she is on her way up, unlike some who are on their way down. Yes, it's always better to admit when we have a weakness, rather than to try to change the process. This is indeed, my pet peeve! Give me the fallen devotee who admits their problems any day, as opposed to the fanatic who says they do not have such problems. They are problably hiding bigger ones then the person with the courage to own their anarthas. These are often the people who suddenly blow up, or leave, or abuse, and one day we hear about their actions and say, "I would have never suspected it, as s/he was such a 'fixed up' devotee." They often were not fixed up, but had issues they were hiding, sometimes from themselves too. And while I'm on my role here lol, allow me to clairfy I am not saying there is no such entity as a fixed up devotee or that I would not prefer their association, simply that I have seen so few in this age of kali. Most turned out to be pretenders, even within. Honesty is one of the best ways out of that to achieve the goal of genuinely being 'fixed up.'

I received this in email. --- Namarespected and dear Vaisnavas and Vasnavis, Please accept my humble obeisances. All GLories to Srila Prabhupada. You may all have heard about the horrible news of the recent earthquake in my country Iran, which cause death of about 30000 people! Here in Tehran we tried to send them some Prasadam and tommorrow,4th Jan, 2004, we have a Nama Yajna. So I want to humbly ask all of you to chant with us in your heart and help us to glorify the Lord. We are very weak and seeking your mercy and blessings! Your servant, Bhn.Fariba ========= I hope no one reads this passively. This letter is an active request. Anyone can chant Hare Krishna with them in mind for a moment (and Krishna of course!), or else anyone can put two hands together and pray to Krishna for them for a moment. Or mentally put it on your schedule for the next time you chant japa, etc. And it doesn't have to be limited to the one day they asked. After all, that earthquake did a lot of damage and they could use the help any day! -- Well, what kind of response did you expect from someone who runs a Krishna Prayer egroup. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I received this in email. --- Namarespected and dear Vaisnavas and Vasnavis, Please accept my humble obeisances. All GLories to Srila Prabhupada. You may all have heard about the horrible news of the recent earthquake in my country Iran, which cause death of about 30000 people! Here in Tehran we tried to send them some Prasadam and tommorrow,4th Jan, 2004, we have a Nama Yajna. So I want to humbly ask all of you to chant with us in your heart and help us to glorify the Lord. We are very weak and seeking your mercy and blessings! Your servant, Bhn.Fariba ========= I hope no one reads this passively. This letter is an active request. Anyone can chant Hare Krishna with them in mind for a moment (and Krishna of course!), or else anyone can put two hands together and pray to Krishna for them for a moment. Or mentally put it on your schedule for the next time you chant japa, etc. And it doesn't have to be limited to the one day they asked. After all, that earthquake did a lot of damage and they could use the help any day! -- Well, what kind of response did you expect from someone who runs a Krishna Prayer egroup. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I received this in email. --- Namarespected and dear Vaisnavas and Vasnavis, Please accept my humble obeisances. All GLories to Srila Prabhupada. You may all have heard about the horrible news of the recent earthquake in my country Iran, which cause death of about 30000 people! Here in Tehran we tried to send them some Prasadam and tommorrow,4th Jan, 2004, we have a Nama Yajna. So I want to humbly ask all of you to chant with us in your heart and help us to glorify the Lord. We are very weak and seeking your mercy and blessings! Your servant, Bhn.Fariba ========= I hope no one reads this passively. This letter is an active request. Anyone can chant Hare Krishna with them in mind for a moment (and Krishna of course!), or else anyone can put two hands together and pray to Krishna for them for a moment. Or mentally put it on your schedule for the next time you chant japa, etc. And it doesn't have to be limited to the one day they asked. After all, that earthquake did a lot of damage and they could use the help any day! -- Well, what kind of response did you expect from someone who runs a Krishna Prayer egroup. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Crimal, Well, thank you, tho its nothing anyone else wouldn't have done had they noticed, as Prabhuapda encouraged us to reach out and help others. Its just a matter of being personal. Us devotees are real good at being personal in the negative way, lol. We know everyones fault right on down to the 'wrong' place they parted their hair Wednesday morning at 10:47 a.m. LOL So, we merely need to weed that out, or redirect that energy to be personal in a positive manner. Anyhow, I am glad you are getting closer to Krishna and doors are opening.

Crimal, You ask a good question, how does one know when a guru is bogus? Many don't know how to tell. Without Prabhupada's books I would be no exception. But of course, I can only make that decision for myself, and everyone has to make it for themselves. However, there are many places all throughout shastra which describe what qualifications one must have to be a guru. I suggest you look for some of those. Must run! Haribol.

Thiest, I dont know the results of that, but I vaguely remember something about a devotee, I think this was in Florida (?) or Georgia (?) who ran for a government position. We were all supporting him of course, but he lost. We still viewed it as a victory. Does anyone remember this?

Thanks Babru. And what a good point, that "devotees and devotional serrvice cannot be stereotyped. There is nothing that cannot be engaged in Krishna's service. the only thing is that we require guidance from the expert spiritual master how to engage everything in Krishna's service. That is the only trick." If any of my preaching here has sounded contradictory, it was not my intent. If anything, I often preach that God is blue and plays a flute. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I simply wish that whatever service we choose to do, we do it with the correct understanding of Prabhupada's philosophy. We've all had our experiences, and that was yours. Mine has been to spend a lot of time in California, maybe too much time, ha, and in the association of many devotees who worked hard to modify and alter Prabhupada's highest teachings, downright changing signficant points, so they would not have to admit they could not meet up to his standards. Now, I have no problem associating with someone who owns up to a fallen position. Matter of fact, I would much rather associate with someone like that then some (not all) temple devotees who, for example, are behaving fanatical in the public eye, but in private can't make it for Mongala Aroti without their cup of coffee, then they turn around and criticize another for eating chocolate. With that said, what has moreso been my experiences were devotees who didn't want to follow the 4 regs, and next find some angle around them, as if Prabhuapda didn't really consider them important. Nor did it end there. It also traversed into his teachings, drastically. There were women's and mens clubs who preached bougus nonsense from new age therapy books merging it with Gita for example, and had a large numbers of devotees following them! Not to get too into it here, but I posted some details about this in the Health Forum. Anyway, we may all have somewhat different understandings of Prabhupada's teachings or are drawn to focus on different points as well as ways to serve. I have no problem with that. Its when we change them or turn them around to justify our anarthas as if they were not anarthas at all, but good spiriutal qualities - this I have a problem with. I feel many of the difficulties of our movement did not only manifest as a result of the authroties pulling 'power trips' (for lack of a better term), but our own unwillingness to get involved in keeping the movement pure. Well, now you know my pet peeve. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Everything About Krishna is Sweet Someone sent this to me, and I really like it. It touched my heart. Had to share it with the devotees here! ~ YS, Prtha dd ~~~ Madhurashtakam of Shri Vallabhacarya adharam madhuram vadanam madhuram nayanam madhuram hasitam madhuram hRdayam madhuram gamanam madhuram madhuraadhipater akhilam madhuram "His lips are sweet; His face is sweet; His eyes are sweet; His smile is sweet: His Heart is sweet; His gait is sweet; Everything about the Supreme Lord of sweetness is sweet. vacanaM madhuraM caritaM madhuraM vasanaM madhuraM dalitaM madhuram calitaM madhuraM bhramitaM madhuraM madhurAdhipatim akhilaM madhuram "His words are sweet; His acts are sweet; His dress is sweet; His posture is sweet. His walk is sweet, and His wanderings are sweet. Everything about the Supreme Lord of sweetness is sweet." veNur madhuro reNur madhuraH pANir madhuraH pAdau madhurau nRtyaM madhuraM sakhyaM madhuraM madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuram "His flute is sweet; the dust of His lotus feet is sweet. His hands are sweet; His feet are sweet. His dancing is sweet; His friendship is sweet. Everything about the Supreme Lord of sweetness is sweet." gItaM madhuraM pItaM madhuraM bhuktaM madhuraM suptaM madhuram rUpaM madhuraM tilakaM madhuraM madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuram "His song is sweet, His drinking is sweet; His eating is sweet, His sleeping is sweet. His beauty is sweet, His tilaka is sweet. Every thing about the Lord is completely sweet." dharaNaM madhuraM taraNaM madhuraM haraNaM madhuraM ramaNaM madhuram camitaM madhuraM zamitaM madhuraM madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuram "His acts are sweet, His delivering is sweet, His stealing is sweet, His enjoyment is sweet. His heartfelt outpourings are sweet, His peace is sweet. Everything about the Supreme Lord is fully sweet." gunjA madhurA mAlA madhurA yamunA madhurA vIcI madhurA salilaM madhuraM kamalaM madhuraM madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuram "His Gunja necklace is sweet, as is His garland. His Yamuna River is sweet, her waves are sweet, and her waters are sweet. The lotus flowers are also sweet. Everything is completely sweet about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Lord of sweetness." gopI madhurA lIl A madhurA yuktaM madhuraM bhuktaM madhuram dRSTaM madhuraM ziSTaM madhuraM madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuram "His foremost devotees, the gopis, are sweet. His pastimes are sweet. Meeting with Him is sweet. Being enjoyed by Him is sweet. Being noticed (seen) by Him is sweet. His character is sweet. Simply everything about the Lord of sweetness is all-sweet." gopA madhurA gAvo madhurA yaSTir madhurA sRSTir madhurA dalitaM madhuraM phalitaM madhuraM madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuram madhurAdhipater akhilaM madhuram "His cowherd friends are sweet; His cows are sweet. His cane is sweet; His creation is sweet, His destruction is sweet, and His fruition is sweet. Everything about the Supreme Lord is totally sweet."

Relax Siva, ha, I'm not upset. Just asking. Ya dont know if ya dont ask. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Are you accusing me of doing this?

Well Babru, I see I have hit on a pet peeve of yours. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Guest, No one said YOUR guru is bogus. We were referring to another poster.

On the one hand, its shocking. On the other hand, not really. Even when Prabhpuada was here in his vani, modifications, alterations, and changing this or that instruction of his got twisted. Kirtananda tried to do his Christian thing with robes in NV even back then. One sanyasi said Prabhupada was Krishna (Prabhupada corrected him), and the list goes on. I dont know why some do these things, but it seems the human being has a propensity to cheat. Oh, thats it! haha I figured it out as I typed. Its one of the four human propensites. Yet, why it is, when we have finally a chance to get out of the materal world, we rather cheat or be cheated, that's the part I dont get.

Thiest, True. I dont know who this person's guru is, so I can't comment on him, one way or the other. I just was pointing out that anyone can chant Hare Krishna and initiation is unimportant. I only just now read some other thread about a bogus guru, so if this poster is connected to that thread, I did not know it. With that said, boy, where do all these 'guru's' come from? And just see how many prefer to be cheated, that is, if they are following a bogus guru.

No one needs initiation to chant Hare Krishna. Simply chant! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Why waste time? Life is too short in kali yuga. If your guru took you this far, dont block yourself. Its not a complicated process, we humans make it complicated. Lord Caitanya made it easy. Simply chant Hare Krishna and Be Happy.

Crimal, Good to hear how well things have been turning around for you. It IS hopeful! Especially, the more we turn toward Krishna, the more He turns to us - or opens doors. Same thing. Please keep us updated. I am curious to know how the Sunday Feast goes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif A temple online? Interesting way to put it. I suppose it is! Yes, I am thankful for these forums as well.

Babru, I'm back. Sorry, but I forgot this point. The VedaBase is not complete. It does not have everything in it Prabhupada ever said. I know this for a variety of reasons. One being I have the 'old' VedaBase or folio and things I know happened or were said, are not to be found in there, even tho when that first came out it was advertised to be complete. For example, the story about Brahmananda and the cigarette. That is not in my folio, but its in my husbands newer one. About a year ago he bought the newest VedaBase, and they send him things from time to time that they left out of even the newest one. So they are regularly updating it. They wouldn't have to do this if everything were in there to start with. I have also heard that Pratyatosh has on his site many quotes that never made it into the VedaBase, including those about Prabhupada's statement that his books would be the law books for the next 10,000 years. And where would we be without them? No books = no spreading of Krishna consciousness. Even reversing much of what we have because ignorance, plus delusion would take over without his books of light about Krishna.

Haribol AGTSP prabhu, I agree spreading the MahaMantra is one of the best preaching tools, but I never read anywhere that Prabhupada said due to risk of inaccuracies, we should not speak. If anything, what I recall is the opposite. Of course, we should learn 'how' to preach, but there is no Harvard for that. We learn by doing, and by taking suggestions from others too. After all, Srila Prabhuapada started a "preaching" movement. A large part of his mission was based in preaching.