Priitaa

Guest, sorry to disappoint you, tho Shiva's words were in synch with you (hmmmmm), Sihva did not 'get me there.' I'll stick with Prabhuapda's words, thank you very much. And guest, you wouldn't know what Jesus said if you fell over it. Your source is the Bible and modern Christianity. Oh yes, and mundane scholars. Face it, this isn't about propagaing Krishna, its about hatred of Christians. But you are right about one thing, we repeatedly claim we are NOT Hindus, and even tho you cant stand that, ours is a much higher science not based on bodily concept or so much other hindu beliefs, but on transcendence and returning the spirit soul to their original, natural relationship with Krishna. We did not steal a thing. You simply do not understand the difference between Hinduism and transcendence - and that even hurts your feelings, or ego. But then again, that's this idea one must be proud of their birth, they are better because they were born in India, born brahmana, etc., etc. -- more bodily concept. You want to talk about how bona fide Christianity is? Lets talk about how bona fide Hinduism is. It's not even a sanskrit word; its not to be found in any ancient Vedic literature. It too has been messed with by man, there are more sects of Hinduism than Christianity. The word itslef was not really derrived from religion but the result of an inability to pronounce the letter "S" of the Sindu river, callng those who lived across it "Hindus" when they really meant "Sindus." What is disgusting is that you find everything Prabupada said to be found in Hinduism rather than recognize his trasncendenal position of pure devotee! He taught soemthing far more sublime than Hinduism. Do not reject his postion or watch out - mad elephant offense on its way! If you have ISKCON hatred, that's your problem. But then why come here? Why not go to Hindu message boards where you will fit in as well as get along with many? Maybe because you are too small there, just one of the crowd, or you may get high from picking fights with the little iskcon devotee and trying to get people to disbelieve in their spiriutal master.

You're right, that I suspect its you. I'm not going to waste time asking the administrator. It does seem odd that following your posts, are 'guests,' who believes exactly as you do. "what is it that he said that you find so compelling ? If you like what you hear and find that inspiring to listen to that doesn't bother me at all." Try to understand, instead of trying 'not' to understand. Its not what Jesus said that is found compelling. Its that PRABHUPADA SAID IT. No one should specualte on his words, be it about the topic of Jesus, Mohammad, the Moon's distance, or the Earth was oce one big piece of land - bharata varsa. "who among you study jesus as a source of siddhanta anyways ?" Therefore why not leave us alone? It is a fact most Vaisnava's don't read the Bible or accept instruction from that source. Yet we stick with the words of Prabhupada, so why should anyone who believes differently care? But the bottom line is, as I just pointed out, anything Prabhupada says, I will stick up for, hook, line and sinker. :-) "At the same time there are many scholars who have studied the history of christianity and find that the story of jesus is found elsehwere" Who cares what mundane scholars think? Again, faith in the materialist is being presented as bigger fact than Prabhuapda's words. Your posts aren't about facts, they are about facts 'you' believe in, and they are about facts from the mouths of materialistis, not from an Absolute authorty - His Divine Grace Srila Prabhuapda. There are just as many 'scholars' out there who could disprove the same 'facts' you present here. Even, my small self can defeat various points in your last posts! Easily. Now, you could point out Prabhupada could be disproved, but I'm not out to disprove Prabhupada and then connvince myself of some angle (lying for converting). I accept his words as is without adding any mental speculation. "beliefs that jesus was not real should not make them asuras " What you decicde it 'should' or 'should not' do to them is not what happens. I specifically remember Prabhupada had this conversation with Hrdayananda M and told him this is, indeed, what it is capable of doing. And he said that therefore we should not remove their religion before they have fully accepted ours. Its not me making long posts to destroy the belief of those who maybe are part Chrisitian/part Hare Krishna devotee; or worse, some don't even consider Krishna anymore after reading them. And worse yet, they give up all religiosity, become atheists, possibly committing crimes. -- Even the Vedas do not start off on the highest level but one of gradual elevation and keeping society sane and safe. While you speak like we, the HK's, are being too attached to Jesus, it is really some Hindus who are attached to hatred of Christianity and discrediting a pure devotee who doesn't fit their concepts. However, if Prabhupada were to tell me Jesus was not a Vaisnava, would not be in the spiriutal world (which I have a quote contrary to your statement, that says he will be), if I had to make a choice between Prabhuada and Jesus, or Prabhuapda and Krishna, do not think I would have a problem! I would always choose Prabhupada and Krishna - hands down. So this is not the issue. It's a matter of surrendering to the words of the pure devotee, regardless of what they are. While you ask what it is about Christ to be found as so compelling, its not about his teachings, its about his position! Prabhupada does not throw around the word shakyavesavatara cheaply. Those who speak down about Jesus are committing Vaisnava aparadha and will experience the unfortunate karmic reactions! We want to stop that. If you need to beliefve he does for your own faith to stay strong, thats your business, but don't try to tell us its cuz Prabhupada was lying for the sake of preaching. He didn't have to say so much about him if that were the case, and certainaly not shaktyavesavatara!

Haribol prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I think we have all been down for periods of time. Its a matter of how long it goes on. Sounds like, basically you need a combo of weeding out anarthas (even gradually is fine), coupled with finding new exciting (K.C.) things to bring into your life. Ask yourself questions, like, "What KC music do you like?" Or "How about KC board games with your kids?" or "What small thing can you do today that will increase your KC even just a pinch?" One idea that, if followed, has helped many in general is to WRITE DOWN your goals. And steps toward them. Even if its offering a stick of incense to a picture of Krishna once a day or week, its a start, but is more likely to remain a regulated practice if you write it down and take it seriously. Write down other goals too, like the things that make you happy. Ultimately of course, it is Krishna. But if our psychology is not experiencing some day to day happiness, it can get us so down that we end up miles away from Krishna. So make goals there too, but of course, they must not break the regulative principles and be at least in the mode of goodness. Anyway, keep a list tapes on a wall or a very annoying /images/graemlins/smile.gif place that you can see it every day. Then you can look at it from time to time, modify it too, as the list will change as you change. This works! If you do. Enjoy your kids. They are only young once, and this is the prime time you can train them in Krishna C! Use it. I dont know if your wife is a devotee or not, but if not, just get her into it to whatever degree she is open. Then gently spoon feed as time goes on and when she is receptive. However, if she is all ready a devotee you have one less battle here. Go after devotee association for yourself. Seek it out. Break down doors ha or the internet. You get what you look for, and similarly what we dont look for, we dont get. Join , go into KC chat rooms, post on message boards (this one yes, and others too), make some devotee email buddies. If you do this, it may take time, but doors WILL open up. And I dont mean to sound like a know-it-all or tell you what to do. Ultimately only you know what to do. My ideas are only ideas, even if I get a little enthusiastic. :-) P.S. I've been assuming you do not live near a temple. However if you do, of course, go there!

And you are correct! The cast system is no longer the 'divine' caste system and therefore not acceptable. Srila Prabhupada has repeatedly explained that one can become brahamana simply by following the Vedic instructions on living as a brahmana. To take birth in a brahman family does not automatically give one that status, as that is bodily concept. One must be qualified. To take it further, Srila Prabhupada has explained that brahmana is one who is in the mode of goodness or sattvic, therefore all should aspire to become a Vaisnava - above all three modes of material nature, thus cast is irrelevant. Or one could say, brahmana is 'automatically' there. Next, Kuvalapavana prabhu, you with your Ayran thing going, I am surpsied you did not catch this thread. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Where are you?

My goodness, it is BETTER to remain brahmacari. (I am assuming by bachelor you actually mean celibate brahmacari.) If that is your desire, you are one step ahead of the game. I suppose your family or cultural tradition may be saying otherwise, but read Bhagavad Gita As It is, plus other shastra translated by the greatest scholor of all as he is a pure devotee - Srila Prabhuapda, and you will see that it is easier to cross the ocean of birth and death when one is not married. The problem is, most can't really do that for life, but to whatever degree you can maintain - go for it! Prabhupada's Gita: http://www.asitis.com You can do a word search on that site too.

Yes, things were so different back then. Devotees were completely immersed in Krishna to such a degree sometimes we thought we heard the nondevotees say something Krishna conscious. ha For example, I remember one godsister said that whlie out on sankirtana, she could have sworn (but knows it was not fact) she heard one nondevotee say to another, "Did you go to Bhagavatam class this morning?" LOL We were getting purified to such a degree that this is how our minds worked. Times have changed, but times can change again.

I don't care if the person who said this is a Vaisnava or not. I don't care if they are a senior devotee. I don't care if they are a member of ISKCON, or some other group, or what is said on some ISKCON link. I take my authority from the pure devotee Srla Prabhupada. What he says is ALL I care about. Guest, I don't know what makes you think that if you withhold information, only to give it at a later date, we will suddenly say, "Well, THAT makes it different." Obviously, you dont know us as well as you think you do. Time to get off the mental platform guest, stop 'speculating,' and surrender. These mind games are only fun for you, and not nice to others. Sense gratification of the mind is still sense gratification. A way to get your jollies. Better to take Krishna consciousness more seriously and try to spread the glories of Lord Sri Krishna - the bliss, not the 'what if this' and 'what if that.' That's called jnana yoga, not bhakti yoga. A jnani yogi may take many births only to finally come to the conclusion of Bhakti yoga or love and devotion to Krishna. Whereas the bhakti yogi has all ready understood that and is not wasting his time on the mental platform, but is trying to serve Krishna. So please, go serve Krishna somehow or other and tell your mind to relax. Good luck.

WOW A lot of questions. Hope its ok if I reply, since I am not a godbrother, but a godsister. Not sure what you mean by, 'how indepth were the teachings,' but IMHO, more indepth than they are now! How often did we engage in public sankirtana? Every day! I won't say a lot about the duties of the temple president, but even he was suppose to go out on skp daily, tho often he skirted it. lol But eventaully got called up on that. And I suppose it depends on which temple someone was living in. Again, not sure what you mean by, 'what were the duties of the pujari?' To take care of the Deities of course. Time spent each day? Well, everyone would rise no later than 4 a.m., and many rose earlier to get started on their japa, or in some cases to chant extra rounds. Mongala was 4:30 a.m. and ALL attended - and every bit of it. Some had duties during it (like the Pujari dressing the Deities, or the cooks, or devotees would would do 'cut up' of vegetables, etc), but the majority of devotees were mostly attending the program. Even those with duties were in the mood of the morning program, and as soon as their duty was completed, would join us. After the morning prgram there were chores. Then breakfast. Then going out on sankirtana - usually book distribution. Then stopping to take lunch and returning to sankirtana until about 6 p.m. or so. Had to be back in time for the evening prgram, which we were. This was a little more sparce than the morning program (these days its the other way around!), but enough came. Sunday was a little different. Usually we went out on Hari Nama that day instead of book distribution (tho not always), and we returned much earlier so we could attend the Sunday Feast. After that, hot milk, maha prasad, a little Krishna book, then take rest. Next day, start it all over. It was bliss. Not everything, or everyone, was perfect, but the program itself was bliss. Sorry, don't know much about the Cincinnati Oh temple, tho I did live in Clevland for a while. That temple also followed what I typed above. Mostly, they all did. Maybe you are looking for unique or transcendental stories?

This is weird. I just tried it and it's not working, but I tried it before posting, and it was working fine! Maybe they are doing something to it. I think I'll try it again tomorrow.

When I first saw the 'Mars' photo, I also thought, "Big deal. All they had to do was use a red lense filter." Anyhow, check out this: http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/index.cfm See bar on left side. Scroll down to Moon Landing Scam. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Get over yourself. I don't really give a hoot 'who' you are. All I care about is that you are committing aparadha. Stop while you can. Also, it is clearly explained by Prabhuapda that one who takes all faith away from anyone of any other religion with the hopes to prove to them Krishna is God, they do not always accept Krishna is God - thus you have created athiests, as they no longer accept their own religion yet reject this one. If you would read more of Prabhuapda's books and less of these mundane ones, you would have known this.

I suspect he is a certain poster who actually has a registered name, but goes under 'guest' when he wants to ........ shall we say........ be less polite. Anyhow, look back at the thread and see what you think. It may be someone posting regularly there, IMHO. By the way, your last 2 paragraphs hit the nail on the head!

haha Thanks. Well, all I could think was, there is nothing he or anyone can say to convince us that what Prabhupada stated, sometimes to his most intimate disciples, is a trick, an angle, a lie, etc. So this poster can try all he wants, but his 'twist' on Prabhupada's teachings are only based in his need to be right all the time. Therefore such false ego shows he has not surrendered to Prabhuapda in the first place, or anyone for that matter. You'll notice he never mentions his guru, just wants folks to surrender unto him. lol But ultimately, now that I know, best not to feed the dragon. :-) Also, I think I know who he is.

Thank you Ancient Patriot, I did not know he was running around causing arguments on various threads or I would not have bothered to post. What bothers me is his method of preaching can result in atheism.

As I said, if you don't want to surrender to the pure devotee, NOTHING I SAY will matter. And now you have proven it. Its so much easier to hang on to your 'own' beliefs than to accept his. And the so-called facts you present are merely those of material historians who don't even agree with each other. Give me a break. I'd rather take my facts from those who have seen Krishna. You too can post any number of details of 'your' belief. But you aint a pure devotee 'baby,' so I'm not going to surrender unto you. Keep on twisting Prabhupada's words to suit yourself. Good luck.

To all unsigned guests who have the courage to criticize but not the courage to put their name to it, and hopefully to the others who are sincere but do not understand or else know the details, I wish to take a few minutes and clear up what Prabhupada has been acused of, as well as his followers: that he is telling tall tales in order to convert us, and that we were just sheep who prefer to follow blindly. Let us remember that this Hare Krishna movement began in the 60s - not a time of blind followers! The youth had all ready given up their churches and various types of blind following. If ever there was a time in America for the highest Truth to be presented, this was it! We were no longer accepting what we were born into but looking for transcendence. Countless devotees had 'already' been looking into a variety of yoga paths which they knew their parents would view as heathen or at least pagan. I could give much other proof, but hopefully I wont have to - that the point has been made. The next point which some seem to be having a LOT of toruble with, is that there is a vast difference between Christ the person and modern day Christianity - the religion. It appears to me that on the one hand such posters want to accept Prabhupada, but they don't accept all of which he has said. In order to think they are accepting him, they come up with these various philosophies to justify their own belief system in their minds. However, one must surrender fully to the pure devotee. One can't accept and reject his various teachings. "Oh, I like what he says here so I accept, but this part over there, it does not please my senses (which include the mind), therefore I reject those." First one must take the time to decide if they even want to surrender to the pure deovtee. If they dont, thats fine, but then they should not think they are in a position to instruct anyone. Unless they can show they have taken shelter of another pure devotee. With that said, I'd next like to point out something that may not have been considered. Often Krishna does not immediately send to earth one who tells of Him, as most are not ready to handle that. The people may be too fallen to hear. So Krishna sets the stage. He sends down many prophets and saints to prepare and 'gradually' elevate people so at some future time, he can finally send someone to speak directly about Krishna and finally people will be receptive. Therefore, at least in theory I hope some can accept that Jesus was sent to prepare and gradually elevate the people for future, higher teachings. It is an offense to call Jesus a myth. Whether someone likes it or dislikes it, Jesus was a Vaisnava. I call him an "undercover Hare Krishna devotee." /images/graemlins/smile.gif And Jesus did say that he had much more to tell, but the people could not bear that now. Hint, hint, ok? That's about Krishna! God is blue and plays a flute? Oh yeah, they would have really loved that. They crucified him for less. -- He knew what he was doing. We, however, do not. Regarding Prabhuapda as the only acarya to mention or accept Jesus and not others, I will put something at the bottom you may find of interest. For now, here are more than 1, 2, 3 - then more - quotes from Prabhupada which may explain some points. Of course, if one rather argue than hear from the pure devotee, nothing I post here will matter. Anyway, take it or leave it, its yours to do that with. +++++++ Prabhupada: He (Jesus) was educated of his spiritual life in India. Twelve years here. Twelve years he was. And he lived in Jagannatha temple." Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, Feb 17, 74, Bombay India -- "When our constitutional position or dharma is deteriorated due to the contaminations of matter, the Lord Himself comes as an incarnation or sends some of His confidential servitors. Lord Jesus Christ called himself the "son of God," and so is a representative of the Supreme. ~ Srila Prabhupada, On The Way To Krishna, Chapter 2 -- "Prabhupada: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaisnava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin." ~ Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Prof of Sanskrit of University of Lausanne, June 4, 1974, Geneva -- "Formerly, people used to go to India to find out about spiritual life. Even Jesus Christ went there. And yet we are not taking advantage of it. It is not that these literatures and directions are meant only for the Indians or for the Hindus or for the brahmanas. No. They are meant for everyone, because Krsna claims, aham bija-pradah pita: "I am everyone's father." Therefore, He is very anxious to make us peaceful and happy. Just as an ordinary father wants to see that his son is well situated and happy, similarly Krsna wants to see every one of us well situated and happy. Therefore He comes sometimes. This is the purpose of Krsna's advent. Thank you very much." ~ Srila Prabhupada, Journey of Self Discovery - Chapter Who Is Krishna? 2.4 -- "It is said that Lord Jesus Christ, when twelve years old, was shocked to see the Jews sacrificing birds and animals in the synagogues and that he therefore rejected the Jewish system of religion and started the religious system of Christianity, adhering to the Old Testament commandment "Thou shalt not kill." ~ Srimad Bhagavatam, 7.15.10 P -- "Just like the sun is great; therefore even the sun is seen in India or in America or China, anywhere, any part of the world, any part of the universe, the sun is one. Nobody can say, "Oh, it is American sun" or "It is Indian sun." So either Jesus Christ or Rama or Krsna, whoever comes from the kingdom of God, they are the same. There is no difference. But the difference is... Just like in your country temperature of sun is less, and in a tropical country the temperature of the sun is very great. Does it mean the sun's temperature is changed? It is according to the reception. The atmosphere of this country is so surcharged that you cannot receive the sunshine properly, but the sunshine distributes its shining everywhere the same. Similarly, according to the country, according to the circumstances, according to the planet, God is manifested differently, but He is not different. You are wrapping your body with some winter clothes. Same time, telegraph in India, oh, they are running fan. Why the temperature is different? Therefore whatever Lord Jesus Christ says or whatever Krsna says or what Rama says, that is in terms of the place, in terms of the circumstances, atmosphere, persons, hearer." ~ Srila Prabhupada, Seattle, Sept 30, 68 -- Prabhupäda: Body of Christ is not ordinary body. That is spiritual body. Krsna, as Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gétä, yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati bhärata [bg. 4.7], pariträëäya sädhünäà vinäçäya ca duñkåtäm, dharma-saàsthäpanärthäya yuge yuge sambhavämi ätma-mäyayä [bg. 4.8]. So this is a very subtle point. One has to understand that when God comes or God’s son comes or God’s representative comes, they do not accept a body like us. They have their spiritual body. SB lecture 7.6.1 June 10,68 -- "The Vedic civilization is... Therefore India was open to everyone: "Come on. Come here." Therefore they entered as friend, and they conquered. Because India was open. "Yes, you are guest. Come on. You learn here." Lord Jesus Christ also went there to learn. ~ Srila Prabhupada lecture, Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.14, Melbourne, April 13, 72 --- "And then there is saktyavesa-avatara. Saktyavesa-avatara, they are counted just like Lord Buddha, Jesus Christ. They are counted amongst the saktyavesavataras. They are also incarnation of saktyavesavatara, powerful." Srila Prabhupada lecture, CC Madhya 20.172, NY Dec 14, 1966 ++++++++ Regarding the belief that I have read on these message boards expressing there has not been any other other past acarya's who accepted Jesus Christ: Revatinandana: I have a question. One of my prabhus told me that you once said that your Guru Maharaja said that Jesus Christ was a saktyavesavatara. Is that correct? Prabhupada: Yes. Because he said it, it must be correct. ~ SP, SB 6.127-34, Lecture, Suat, Dec., 17, 1970 -- To Love God Srila Saccidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura [Tajpur journal, Friday, August 25, 1871] It was Christ Jesus who first said "Love God with all thy heart, with all thy mind, with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and love man as thy brother." This is an absolute truth indeed; but different men put different interpretations to this noble expression. The expressions of all great men are nice but somewhat mysterious - when understood they bring the truth nearest to heart otherwise they remain mere letters that "kill." The reason of the mystery is that men, advanced in their inward approach to the Deity, are in the habit of receiving revelations which are but mysteries to those that are behind them. The stages of progress are very much the same as the circles of spiritualism which, though not true themselves, explain a great deal about the gradual development of the soul. We have understood some spiritualists to maintain that matter when sublimated converts itself to spirit. This theory is indeed against any inward conviction. Matter is matter, and spirit is spirit; one of them cannot form the other. Spirit is certainly of superior existence; though we cannot fully understand in our present state of material imprisonment, what relation spirit does exactly bear to matter, space and time. Metaphysics apart, we decide that the human soul rises higher and higher and can understand things of which we have no idea at present. Subject to this important rule, Christ Jesus of Nazareth received and uttered these words quoted above. To readers who are a little above the scale of ordinary men, these expressions of Jesus teach, that man should love God with all his heart (meaning the affections of the heart perceivable in all children as opposed to hate), with all his mind (meaning the intellect which knows, as opposed to igorance of, good things), with all his soul, (meaning the principle of the human constitution which worships the Almighty and feels its own immortality) and with all its strength (meaning all active work). To the inspired, however, more things and better and sublimer meanings appear beneath these holy words of the inspired Jesus. He teaches man to love God and not to know, infer, hate or think of God. He tells us that man in his absolute state is not the intellect or the body but is the pure soul itself. The essence of the soul is wisdom and its action is love absolute. The absolute condition of man is his absolute relation to the Deity in pure love. Love then alone is the religion of the soul and consequently of the whole man. The pupil asks here "What have I to do with the heart? - my heart loves to see the 'sun to smile', 'to eat the sweetest dishes and to see a dance'". Jesus profoundly replies "Yes, you must love God with all thy heart. Your heart now runs to other things than God, but you must, as you train a bad horse, make your feelings run to the loving God." This is one of the four principles of worship or what is known in Vaishnava literature as Shanta Rasa. Then the pupil says "My Lord, the intellect takes me elsewhere from God, i.e. it wants to take me to Positivism; please instruct me what am I to do?Yes," replies Jesus"you must love god with all your mind, i.e. when you perceive, conceive, remember, imagine and reason, you must not allow yourself to be a dry thinker but must love. Love alone can soften the dryness of the intellect, you must develop the intellect on all good and holy things by means of love of truth, spiritual beauty and harmony." This is the second phase of Vaishnava development which passes by the name of Dasya Rasa. The pupil then enquires whether the development of the affections and the intellect is quite enough for him. Then says the Lord, "You must love God with thy soul also, i.e. you must perceive yourself in spiritual communication with the Deity and receive holy revelations in your sublimest hours of worship." This is called the Sakhya Rasa of the Vaishnavas - the soul approaching the Deity in holy and fearless service. The disciple apprehends that he will be lost in such a position and will be unable to act. Then the Saviour tells us these words, "You must love God with all thy strength or will - you are wrong to conclude that you will loose your active existence - you will get it the more. Work for God and to God, proceeding from no self interested views but from a holy free will (which is alone the strength of man) and identifying itself with pure love, will fully engross your attention." This description is of Bhakti in general. Then Jesus proceeds to tell us "You must love man as thy brother." From this is inferred the fourth phase of love which is a feeling that all men are brothers and God is their common Father. This is Vatsalya Rasa in its first stage of development. Bhakti (love) is thus perceived in the very first development of the man in shape of heart, then in the shape of mind, then in the shape of soul and lastly in the shape of will. These shapes do not destroy each other but beautifully harmonize themselves into a pure construction of what we call the spiritual man or the Ekanta of Vaishnava Literature. But there is another sublimer truth behind this fact which is revealed to a few that are prepared for it. We mean the spiritual conversion of the soul into a woman. It is in that sublime and lofty state that the soul can taste the sweets of an indissoluble marriage with the God of love. the fifth or the highest stage of Vaishnava development is this, which we call Madhura Rasa, and on this alone the most beautiful portion of the Vaishnava Literature so ably expatiates. This phase of human life, mysterious as it is, is not attainable by all, nay, we should say, by any but "God's own." It is so very beyond the reach of common men that the rationalists and even the ordinary theists cannot understand it, nay, they go as far as to sneer at it as something unnatural. Oh God! Reveal Thy most valuable truths to all so that Your own may not be numbered with the fanatics and the crazed and that the whole of mankind may be admitted as "Your own." ++++++

Oh, that's ok. I am not sure my realizations are all the great anyhow. haha And I do think mine was on a lower level, yet it felt, at the time, a necessity because I kept wondering why it is we are to be so humble in our religion yet often the result is that we get pushed around. Then I next thought of how much more pushing could happen if those doing the pushing didn't at least somtimes try to be humble. And then I even thought of mystic yogic power. ha So there you have it. Not exactly the highest understanding, but it helped me figure things out -- I think. lol

By kunti mala I am assuming you mean japa beads and not neck beads. If that is the case, I would not rush it. Too many gurukuli's wont even chant at all because it was shoved down their throat. Some will chant a little tho without beads, and some will use beads tho not chant very much really. All this may have started with over enthusiasm, but it so easily escalates. I heard in general, the earliest age is 12. Just a general rule and not a hard and fast one.

If you are referring to my last post, I wasn't claiming to be showing shastra and stated this was only something I was one time thinking about and did 'not' have a quote on it. Matter of fact, I wouldn't want anyone to think of it as shastric. With that said, this doesn't mean we can't have realizations.

Incredible story! Thanks!

This is so true! When my children were little I was informed about this as some devotees were stringing neckbeads for their children the same way they do for adults (on fishing line or dental floss). I was told to use regular thread that breaks AND it should not be able to be pulled up past their chin. Once devotees started doing this, I never heard of any more chocking problems. I suppose parents don't want to restring when they break, but its safer therefore a small tapa to take on. And this way they can be around their necks.

IMHO sometimes devotees hold on to hippie propensities because the highest has been blocked. The peace they were promised in the movement was distorted or damaged by some in big positions. We are still seeking even though we have found. Its not a lack in the genuine process, its a lack as a result of the process being changed. Hippies want peace. Prabhupada says a brahmana is in the mode of goodness, sattvic. Is that not peace? Yet so many brahmana's (and not all) are running around thinking they are so great, becoming similar in various degrees to smarta and caste brahmanas. That is just one example, there are others how things are not as they should be. The bottom line is, IMHO, that when the chips are down we turn to the last place we found peace and kindness at. Because when we have something higher there is no interest in something lesser, therefore if we are turning to that lesser thing, well, someone has messed with the highest. Milk touched by the lips of serpents and such. However, if these things are not the main problem, that is they happen to most but some get it less than others and therefore not so much harmful, so in that case you need to look within and see why you dont have the strength to practice properly at home. What are you 'allowing' to block yourself? In this case it is almost always something we don't want to give up, be a 'thing' or a belief system. Anyway, that's just my understanding of it. There may be others.

Don't worry, I wasn't saying you posted a blooper really, but that I have. Its not that certain things can't be discussed, just in the proper place or circumstances.

In another thread, you may have seen, the topic was brought up whether or not it was offensive to wear Tulasi as a bracelet. I don't know. I've never seen scriptural quotes that say one way or the other. One thing could be to make sure to wear the bracelet on the right hand/wrist which is considered (and used as) the clean hand. The left one is used for going to the bathroom, cleaning, etc., so not to wear the bracelet on the left. Maybe that helps. Ya sure he can't find some angle to wear a necklace? I'd check into that cross thing. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Yasodanandana had some good ideas too.

Oh, not to feel bad. You should see some of the bloopers I've posted in the past! /images/graemlins/smile.gif