Priitaa

It's difficult to tell, and I have not formed a firm opinion on it at this time, but I accept it as a possiblity. Bush has often said his religion has played a large role in all he has acomplished so far. I agree Bush has to walk a straight line. He could still find ways to do what he wants. Anyway, what is more interesting tho, is this info was not put out by Evangalists. (Well, it is their program, but the rest... allow me to explain.) This info has been released by those who have many opposite views on Jesus and religion than the Evangalists. And may have some connection to the Essene's as well. But mostly, they are looking for 'facts.' Just food for thought. YS, Prtha dd

Haribol Thiest, Interesting point you make about Jesus and Brahma. I'll have to think about it. The Shroud Evidence is probably not tooooooo graphic to put here, and it pretty factual. Tho for those with weak stomachs, they may not want to read. And sometimes, that includes me. I found by reading some, that was proof enough. Anyway, take a look and decide for yourself. ------- That the Man of the Shroud and the Man of the Tomb are the same person That the Man of the Shroud, obviously, most certainly survived his apparent crucifixion, as he could not be located in a tomb in Kashmir had he died as a result of the crucifixion, especially if it is assumed that that man was Jesus Christ. That the oral and written traditions that speak of Yuz Asaf are traditions referring to none other than Jesus Christ. Had the Shroud revealed nothing but a smooth image, then even a DNA match would say nothing other than that the cloth of a man who now lies in the Roza Bal in Srinagar, Kashmir, India, somehow ended up in Turin, Italy. But this cloth bears markings that exactly parallel the descriptions one finds in the Bible of the scourging of Jesus Christ. As Kersten notes in his book, The Jesus Conspiracy: The Turin Shroud and the Truth about the Resurrection: The distinct details allow us to recognize six of the Stations of the Cross reported in the Gospels. First, expert medical studies have discovered a severe swelling under the right eye and other surface face wounds, which are obviously related to blows to the face inflicted by the soldiers. Secondly, a large number of small, very conspicuous, dumbbell-shaped markings are visible on the front and rear of the body—they are particularly distinct on the shoulder and back regions. In total over ninety of these wounds can be counted, and their shape allows a reconstruction of the kind of instrument used to inflict them. The wounds are clustered in groups of three at a certain fixed angle to the body, so one has to assume it was a whip. The characteristic form of the individual wounds points to the Roman flagrum. One often encounters this terrible instrument of torture in stories of the early Christian martyrs. It was especially feared because it was fitted at the ends of the three leather thongs with very small lead dumbbells, called plumbatae, and sometimes bone pieces, which could cause painful wounds. Thirdly, in the shoulder region the whip wounds appear smeared with blood. This observation tallies with the custom of making the person sentenced to death on the cross carry the crossbeam (patibulum) to the place of execution himself. Fourthly, the irregular course of the streams of blood on the forehead and the back of the head allow us to infer a crowning with thorns. The way these wounds are distributed over the head is interesting. It shows that what the Man of the Shroud wore was not the ring of thorns familiar to us from the whole Christian iconography. It was rather a cap covering the whole head. This corresponds exactly to the oriental crowns which were widespread in those days. Fifthly, the nail wounds are striking, especially one of the hand wounds. The course of the larger streams of blood indicates that the arms were stretched out on the cross at an angle of 55-65 [degrees] to the vertical. The hand wounds supply a surprising piece of information: in art it is only the palms of the hands that are pierced, but the blood flows on the cloth clearly show that the nails were actually driven through the wrists, a fact which was to be supported by later investigations. The final Station of the Cross is evident from an oval wound on the right side about 4.5 centimeters in length, situated between the fifth and sixth ribs. Quite a lot of blood appears to have flowed from this wound, the dispersal of which is best made out on the rear view. As is well known, the text of John mentions an injury to the side caused by a lance, saying "blood and water" immediately flowed from it. One does not find any sign of major injuries to the upper or lower legs, suggesting that the legs were not broken, again as confirmed by the Bible. The anatomically precise representation of the body is similarly inexplicable [were the Shroud a forgery]. Anatomical knowledge up until the sixteenth century was based on the works of the Greek physician Galen (129-201), and was not modified until the pioneering studies of the Flemish anatomist Andreas Vesal (1514-64). One only has to glance over the medical codices from the end of the fifteenth century to be confronted in a striking manner with the paucity of the anatomical knowledge then available for iconography. As an example, I can refer you to the manuscript of the famous Monumenta Medica of John of Ketham of 1491, now kept in the National Library in Paris. There can be no doubt that the picture on the cloth shows the imprint of a man which really has been impacted on the sheet of fabric. Moreover the evidence of the details proves that it could not have been just any crucified person. The agreement in so many details with the reports of the Gospels about the Passion of Jesus, and with other historical data about his crucifixion, is so impressive that even the Jesuit and historian Herbert Thurston, who considered the linen to be a forgery, wrote in 1903: "If this is not the impression of the Christ, it was designed as the counterfeit of that impression. In no other person since the world began could these details be verified." ----- I can put more later, if folks read thru that OK. Anyway, at the very least, it makes one think. YS, Prtha dd

Frodo, Such name calling and chastizement in your last post, as well as your assumed guru-like position, reveals you are unaqualified to be telling me or anyone else what to do. I don't want to continue this pointless nonsense with you anymore. We've both said our piece, now let it go. Thank you. YS, Prtha dd

I found this one the web while doing some research for my Christ and Krishna site. It sure makes one think! Could Bush be including (so-called) religious reasons for pushing us into war? Does he think he is helping to prepare for the return of Christ? Read 'em and weap. --- Kashmir: The True Promised Land [The Evangelical movement within Christianity has recently made the news, as many of you are fully aware. This movement, headed by the likes of American Christian ministers such as Pat Robertson, and former Moral Majority minister, Jerry Falwell, has pumped tens of millions of dollars into the State of Israel, TV advertisments, and to American-born Jews who decided to migrate to Israel to the Israeli settlements. Their activity in Israel was documented some weeks ago [the date at the time of writing this update is October 13, 2002] on the popular 60 Minutes TV program produced by the CBS television network. [At the root of this Evangelical activity is their belief that Israel stands as the staging ground for the imminent "return" of Jesus Christ, whom they believe will set up the long-awaited Kingdom of God. This Kingdom of God will be one populated only by "Christians," all other peoples [including, and especially, the Jews] having been either wiped off the face of the earth, or converted to Christianity. [Needless to say, Jews are now divided over this Christian "help" that they are now receiving from Evangelicals. Some Jews welcome the help. But others have become offended by this new Evangelical thrust, due to the fact that the apocalyptic drama that the Evangelicals believe will unfold has, as its finale, the destruction or conversion of Jews, more precisely, of the Jewish (and all other) religions. Obviously, this apprently contradictory desire of Evangelicals to, on the one hand, assure the continued existence of the State of Israel, while on the other hand openly stating their desire to see the end of Judaism at the advent of the "return" of Jesus Christ, has enraged a section of the Jewish community, and caused division within the Jewish community as regards this powerful "support" that has been offered by the Evangelicals. [The influence of the Evangelicals cannot be underestimated. Their activity in supporting Israel (the staging ground for their apocalyptic aspirations) is organized, efficient, politcal and backed by big money. It is openly stated, within political circles, that President Bush is very aware of the support he receives from the Evangelical movement, and it is speculated that his backing away from demands on Israel that he had lodged is directly tied to his fear of losing the support of the Evangelical Christian movement. [Another important part of their apocalyptic drama is the recognition of the land of Israel as the "Promied Land" that was given by God to the Jews. To the Evangelical, every part of this drama is tied to Biblical verses that, they believe, are immutable, since the Bible is perceived by them to be the very Word of God. In their viewpoint, all parts of this drama must stay intact: the status of Jews as the Chosen People; the status of the State of Israel as the Promised Land of the Jews; the existence of the State of Israel as the final staging ground for the return of Jesus, and, finally, the actual return of Jesus to set up the Kingdom of God, must all be intact.<<< <sigh> YS, Prtha dd

Sad to loose Mr. Rogers. He was one of the few pious leaders of America. A vegetarian and a minister. Only Mr. Rogers could say that the space between the Television and the viewer is a holy space. Well, it applied for his show. YS, Prtha dd

This is exactly what I needed to hear, as so often preaching is the opposite. I know otherwise, but to read the truth like this is wonderful! Prabhupada had (has!) a heart. It is not mundane sentiment. Only pure and spiritual. Thank you Narayani prabhu. YS, Prtha dd

Thiest, Would you like me to post the findings I came across? They are very interesting, especially for one who also has a bit of a scientific mind. Tho they are graphic. But it is convincing. YS, Prtha dd

There is a certain type of mental sense gratifcation where one takes great pleasure in aruging, especially about spirutal life. And an additional type of mental sense gratifcation where one takes pleasure in rebellion of pure instruction given by Jagat guru, who it certainly appears you do not accept as your guru. One must approach the spiritual master in a *humble* state of mind, not an argumentative one. Until that point, all the evidence in the three worlds will not suffice, and one remains deaf. Good luck! YS, Prtha dd

Dear Frodo, No one needs glasses merely because they have a different opinion than yours. Your proof is only based on your opinion. It is not what Prabhupad said. You can not claim to be your own authorty. A guru is ALWAYS required. So who is your guru? Prabhupada has made it clear that Jesus was jiva tattva, there is no argument there, so I don't understand why you try to make one. Maybe a misunderstanding. Anyway, nowhere in Vedic literature does it say Christ=Vishnu-tattva, Jesus=Jiva-tattva. Unless you can show otherwise. YS, Prtha dd

Frodo, With all due respect, you ask us to blindly accept your comment that Jesus was Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu and stop our 'speculation' of who Jesus was, yet you give us no 'proof' of your own. However, please note, no one said Jesus was Krishna, as you suggested. Also please note that what I stated about Jesus was based on what jagat guru Srila Prabhupada either said about him or wrote in the Srimad Bhagavatam, which will go on for the next 10,000 years. Prabhupada never stated he was Lord Gauranga, but that he is Satkyavesa avatara. Thus, it is authoritative information. So please clarify, where do you get your authority from on this topic? Thank you. YS, Prtha dd

Thank you Thiest, .....for the reply and showing the parallels which you see. I do see them as well. Tho I would be in agreement that there is insufficient evidence of Jesus as Haridas Thakura, Lord Brahma, or even Lord Balaram. But that does not matter to me, as it is simultaneously a possibility. IMHO what is currently important is that the same "qualifications" are manifesting. The purity. The behavior and activities of highly advanced souls. This is what is showing and what attracts so many. That they are never disturbed under these most heart-wrenching circumstances? That is incredible. Because I am doing research for my Christ and Krishna web page I recently read a detailed report to prove DNA, scienctific info, etc., regarding each and every specific wound on the Shroud in comparrision to the description in Bible. I could not read thru it all! It was too disturbing to hear what they did to Christ. I can't begin imagine what it must be like for these great souls to go thru, those who descend to save us, as they each go thru something. Srila Prabhupada put up with so much from us unqualified Westerners who constantly looked for loopholes. I only pray I can get out of this material world and am thankful to the various satktyavesa avatar's and incarnations of Vishnu that bothered to come here and try to save us. Thank you for your interesting post. YS, Prtha dd

Guest, who does not sign a name, you are in the wrong forum. You insist on seeing this with material eyes, so please consider goint to the "World Review" forum. YS, Prtha dd

You know, I do not remember 'exactly' who introduced me to Krishna consciousness because we were a group of older teenagers and young adults that hung out together and were looking into yoga and various religions. Some friends even let Christain preachers come over their house once. ha But specifically, who was the first person to tell me about Krishna, I can't remember! I do remember various things, like once an initiated devotee came over to my friends place which was right next to mine and we all had a kirtana outside on a madras. Or after that and I had moved, the new neighbors would go to the temple so they took me there. A few things like that. But person number one? Not sure. I hope that's not an offense. YS, Prtha dd

Well, I'm not sure that's the reality either. I live in America and see all types. It's the land of varigatedness. Tho judging a book by its cover can be a mistake. Anyway, even if the travelers are bearded, scruffy and have bad breath (needing a dentist?), if they can afford that ticket over there, they sure 'aint' poor bums! ha The Americans go to India to renounce. The India/n's look to Ameircans to be materialistically smooth. -- Not on the same page. :-) YS, Prtha dd

Yes, and I heard they have a McDonalds in India? And they wonder why they are suffering. Geesh, I mean, they have the Vedas. We had to find them, but they had them. Anyway, I hope we can all preach more and in time it will spread to India. Prabhupada left India because the India/n people did not want to hear and we did, but he also wanted us to help them return to pure Krisna consciouness (not to be confused with Hinduism). YS, Prtha dd

I have heard countless times in the past (ever since I became a devotee, really) that if only the people of India would eat the cow, they would not be starving. However, this is far from the truth. Even in America, we have discovered that it takes more grain to feed a cow than the meat gotten from the cow for those who eat her! Next, if one believes a cow also has a soul then this would help the understanding of not killing her, or any creature really. But that the cow is holy? Because Krishna said so, thats basically it. He loves cows, so we love cows. Oh, there are other reasons too, such as her milk feeds you as a child when your mother no longer can nurse you, so the cow then is like a mother; and the bull plows the fields so he is like father. Just because they are not materially so bright does not mean we should slit their throats. If we have a mentally retarded child we do not do so with them, thus mother cow and father bull have a right to their natual lifespan. Another reason people are suffering more in India than other countries is, as Prabhupada has explained, due to sinful activity and KNOWING it was sinful activity but doing it anyway. If they were to eat the cow that would not solve any real problems but increase them, since killing mother cow is terribly, highly karmic. Vedic literatures explain that we suffer one thousand fold for each hair on the body of each cow we kill, eat, etc. If one does not believe in karma they will brush this under the carpet, but if those of India eat her, horrid things start to happen, worse than now, thus time will prove otherwise. Hope this helps explain things a little. YS, Prtha dd

Thank you Narayani d.d. You hit the nail right on the head: I have been reading a few of your posts and you tend to stick with Srila Prabhupada's highest, transcendental instructions, which is a breath of fresh air always. You are a blessing to have on these forums. :-) Thanks! Take care and Hare Krishna. YS, Prtha dd

Thank you Narayani d.d. You hit the nail right on the head: I have been reading a few of your posts and you tend to stick with Srila Prabhupada's highest, transcendental instructions, which is a breath of fresh air always. You are a blessing to have on these forums. :-) Thanks! Take care and Hare Krishna. YS, Prtha dd

It is not very nice of you to call my story stupid, tho YOUR answer was not so great, and quite mundane. I was not the only one who found that story instructive, as it was told in class, thus many were there. I recall very clearly how well it was received by all of the assembled devotees. So maybe you are not getting the point, or don't want to. I hope the first. It makes a very good point for those who are trying to understand. Nor are we interested in India as "over there." It was not a story about India, but about Krishna and His unlimited abilities beyond our conception. Good luck. YS, Prtha dd

It is not very nice of you to call my story stupid, tho YOUR answer was not so great, and quite mundane. I was not the only one who found that story instructive, as it was told in class, thus many were there. I recall very clearly how well it was received by all of the assembled devotees. So maybe you are not getting the point, or don't want to. I hope the first. It makes a very good point for those who are trying to understand. Nor are we interested in India as "over there." It was not a story about India, but about Krishna and His unlimited abilities beyond our conception. Good luck. YS, Prtha dd

>>here or on other forums people argue against each other very strongly.<< So you advocate that? It's nonsense to argue when we have the highest science. >>so why not show a demo by chanting and show if you can make them agree and destroy disagreement?<< You are just trying to draw me into that fight. Apparently we did not show it to you good enough when we stopped WW III under Prabhupada's instructions in the 70's, so to give another demo, you still would not believe and is not really what you want acomplish here. What you want to do is debate. In addition, the answer to your question is that I am not here to prove a thing, that is not my job, that is guru's job, but first you must take shelter and surrender cent per cent to a bona fide guru. Also in answer, I do not take pleasure in arguing, I do not feel we as devotees should waste our time in bickering or solving political problems from a materialistic viewpoint. If you need proof for this, then my question to you is, are you an initiated devotee? If so, by whom? >>if you succeed, we would belive chanting will stop future wars.<< Again, that has all ready been done and you reject it. And again, that is not my job. Read Prabhupada's books to gain in faith, read *submissively.* >>krishna did not say "chant and avoid war."< I was under the impression you all ready understood our teachings and so saw no need to get into deails, but apparently you have some ideas of your own. Maybe Hinudu? >>we had mahabharata war.<< And Krishna tried every peaceful way first before going to war. Plus, we should not immitate transcendental "pastimes," using them as an excuse to go into mundane war because these great souls who partook in that pastime were in a battle. >>if you chant without doing anything else to protect your freedom << I dont know about you, but I joined the Hare Krishna movement. (Did you?) And with that, I beacme a nun, dedicated to that path, the only way toward 'real' freedom. All other types are illuson. For those who are not so dedicated, then let them do what they feel they need to do. >>and religious infrastructure, it would make so much easy fot the terrorists to finish you.< I wonder if you found shock commentary to get you a lot of attention and fast replies in the past, and so you are using one on me now. Anyway, sounds like you are absorbed in terroism katha and fears. > is it still unknown that they cannot stand any other religion than allah's?<< Prabhupada said for those who do not chant Hare Krishna, let them chant Jesus, Allah, etc. We are not anti-muslim, are not anti-christian, not anti any bona fide religion. Again, are you Hindu? YS, Prtha dd

IMHO we should worry less about politics and more about going out on Hari Nama. In the 1970's Prabhupada said we stopped WW III from starting merely by going out on Hari Nama Sankirtana! He said we did this twice! Jai! Let us not look toward material or political ways to stop war, or fix the world. Let us understand the potency of the Holy Names and start sharing them with others! Haribol! :-) YS, Prtha dd

one cannot practice bhakti without the living guru (spiritual teacher). Funny, I never knew Prabhupada was "dead." While I respect anyones choice of guru, let's not start 'indicating' Prabhupada is a dead guru. YS, Prtha dd

So sad to hear about Bahudak! Tho glad I came to this forum and found out. I went to a Rath in Canada years ago. Wonderful kirtana leader! You're right Mahaksa, that IS Sudama! I never saw him that thin. Well, it is an old picture. I wonder the devotees ages there. We were all so young! YS, Prtha dd

Thanks Thiest. Hope you enjoy it. Part of my purpose is of course, to show Christians that its not disloyal to Jesus if they chant Hare Krishna. The other point I wish to accomplish is that we as devotees, when we learn more about Christs varigated activities, we can start to think of him as a Vaisnava more than a we now do. Tho admittedly, IMHO anyway, the biggest reason we think of Christ in relationship to "the church" is due to our upbringing coupled with the Wests large propagation of him in this way. Once the info the vatican, etc., has been hiding about him comes to light, it will be obvious he was a devotee of Krishna, and will be easier for devotees to view him in that way too. YS, Prtha dd