ggohil

My view on Selfishness If one desires to help some one with no desire of personal gain, can the this be considered Selfish? In material world one may chose to secure what he desires hence selfish. However, on spiritual platform one only serves, can this be considered selfish? An activity which is universally beneficial and elevates one to the world of love and devotion, can this be considered selfish? A self realized person free from the material entanglement is left with nothing, but Sri Krsna, Narayan, Vishnu, or Ramchandra. etc. Since all can achieve this, can this be considered to be selfish.? In the desert, if it is raining every where and one decides to open mouth to quench his thirst, can this be considered selfish? A path to self-realization is difficult and the benefits are not obvious or immediate, so how is the decision to follow this path be considered selfish? Going to Mandir and asking for something in return, taking up spiritual path etc are a material based activities, hence on a material platform it may be argued it to be selfish. The rules of the material world must be different from the rules of the spiritual world. Defining the activity as selfish or not on material platform can only be valid on material platform. In spiritual world the meaning of the word selfishness (in this context) must be abstract.

Many people posses the mastery of executing clever arguments. They appear to have a neck of developing effective arguments for or against an issue at will. The arguments are clever enough to withstand great deal of debates, hence they create excitement. However, in nature they are nothing but just clever arguments. In truth they neither seem to resolve or conclude anything. Our knowledge will always be limited if the source of the knowledge is our senses. Our conclusions will only be as good as the analysis we performed. Until the next person provides yet a another "CLEVER ARGUMENT". Then we will change our minds, AGAIN. By default, we as a human beings are just not capable of ascertaining the absolute truth, if the conclusions are based solely on our senses. Personally, I prefer to listen to Sri Krsna.

Jai Sri Krsna What is "Vishnu-tattva" Thank you

Hare Krsna Sri Shvu: Thanks for the tips.

Hari Bole: Sri Shvu: Originally, was the Brahama Smahita written by Lord Brahama? If yes, then is the translation inaccurate? Thanks

Hare Krsna Sri Viji: Thanks for the information. Sri Shvu: What is the difference between Bhagavatam and Bhagavatam purana? And where they written at the same time. Thanks

Sri Shvu: I believe: Referring to any soul, who’s opinions differ, as rascal is unwarranted. This kind of implication evokes inappropriate reactions and derails rational thought process. Referring to people as bad apples has similar effects. Why not just concentrate on the Matter at Hand and stop referring to people as bad. This just my opinion. In addition to the quotes you mentioned above. “Of Adityas I am Vishnu.......” BG 10.22 To describe Krsna in BG 10.12 and 10.13, words like sasvatam and adi-devam are used. A. C. Prabhupada interprets these words as “Original” and “the Original Lord”. I do not know if this is a accurate interpretation. However, there is no clear evidence that Krsna is incarnation of Vishnu. I understand Krsna took birth and lived for a specific period. But if he is the Supreme as he clearly show in BG, then who are we to deduce any opinion just by looking at his birth. If he is the Lord he may come and go as he sees appropriates. Brahama Samita. text 1 and 41 isvarah--the controller; paramah--supreme; krsnah--Lord Krishna; sat--comprising eternal existence; chit--absolute knowledge; ananda--and absolute bliss; vigrahah--whose form, anadih-- without beginning; adih--the origin; govindah--Lord Govinda; sarva-karana-karanam--the cause of all causes. alola--swinging; candraka--with a moon-locket; lasat--beautified; vana-malya--a garland of flowers; vamsi--flute; ratna- angadam--adorned with jeweled ornaments; pranaya--of love; keli- kala--in pastimes; vilasam--who always revels; syamam--Syamasundara; tri-bhanga--bending in three places; lalitam--graceful; niyata--eternally; prakasam--manifest ; govindam--Govinda; adi- purusam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajami--worship. In this translation (Not by A. C. Prabhupada) of Brahma Smahita, Krsna is referred to as the original person in many slokas, I have just mentioned two above. I will look at the site you mentioned. Thanks Sri Animeshji: Thank you for the wonderful analogy. I understand what you are presenting in the analogy. However, I am still looking for one clear and direct evidence in the Vedic literature which clearly states that “Krsna was an avtar of Vishnu”. Sri Viji: I think you give me more credit then I deserve, if you believe that I am capable of preaching anything. It is true, what limited knowledge I possess, is obtained from the BG translated by A.C. Prabhupada. I am in processing of obtaining BG translated by other scholars. You state Lord Narayana incarnated eight times before Krsna and therefore Krsna was the ninth incarnation. This in itself is a weak argument and does not support clearly that Krsna’s appearance was incarnation of Lord Naranyna. As I stated above I am looking for clear evidence from Vedas of “Krsna was an avtar of Vishnu or Naranyana”.

Hare Krsna Sri Shvu: Incendently, was Bhagavata Purana written after Krsna's appearace and written by devotees. If yes, then why is considered as authority.

Jai Sri Krsna Dear Shvu: I have ordered a copy of Gita translated by Swami Vireshwaranada. Thanks for the information

Hare Krsna Dear Viji, Shvu and Jayasriradhey Thank you for your replys. (Just for the record, my participation in these discussion is nothing but a quest for knowledge) Dear Viji: I was hoping that you could provide me with specific references on "Vishnu incarnated as Krsna in a Human form" in Vedas which I could look up or you could quote. I was not aware that by asking questions on impersonal, personal or the original form of the Lord (if any), was forcing anybody to accept any particular form of the Lord. Dear Shvu: Regarding your comment as "Bad Apples". Everybody does their best to understand the real knowledge. Difference of opinions will occur. Freedom of choice is grace of God. Disagreeing with people is appropriate, however classifying people as "Bad Apples" (just because their opinions differ), is not. Perhaps, the judgement of “Good apples and Bad apples” should be left to the one who knows everything. Based on all the translations I see that when Krsna says I and Me, he is referring to himself as Krsna and not as Vishnu. The translation clearly shows that Krsna (not Vishnu) presents himself as the Lord. Now, are there reference in Vedas that clearly shows that Krsna was incarnation of Vishnu. Dear Jayassriradhey: Thank you for the translation. I inclined to agree with you that the ultimate point in Gita is unconditional Bhakti. But, ignorant people like me need knowledge before we can come to the stage of pure devotion. Hari Bole Girish N. Gohil

Jai Sri Krsna Working as Legal Assistant (US immigration) Lost soul trying to learn about Krsna nothing more.

Jai Sri Krsna Dear Viji_53 You state "Maha Vishnu (Narayana) took the avatar as Krishna. Vishnu took the human form for the sake of His devotees" Can you please provide me with vedic reference. Thank you

Hare Krsna Dear Shvu Would you be kind enough to provide me with translation of following chapters from the Gita translated by Swami Vireshwarananda. 10.8, 5.29, and 7.06 Additionally, you state "The Bhagavatam clearly says that Lord Narayana incarnated on earth as Krishna to .........." will provide me with reference on this. Thank you

Hari Bole Dear jndas. Thank you very very much for ansering my questions. Hare Krsna

Hari Hari Dear Hari and Jayasriradhey. All I am seeking is, if there is any written evidence in vedic knowledge that confirms that Krsna has a defined form and incarnated as himself. I do not see anything wrong in seeking knowledge on Krsna, do you? Personal or Impersonal, if there is clear references made in the vedic literature on this subject then I would like to know. That's all. Hare Krsna

Hare Krsna Dear Shvu: I think you have missed the point I made above. Fan = devotee of a specified amusement, performer etc. ( film fans, football fans). Defination taken from “The Concise Oxford Dictionary”. Shvu you view the devotees of Krsna (who follow the teachings of Prabhpada ) to fit above definition of “fans” and I do not. Just for the record I am not a memeber of Iskon or am bothered by what you are saying. But addressing devotees as fans is perhaps not accurate. I am already sorry I even address the this issue earlier. This is not here or there and is taking up valuable time of everyone. Hari Bole

Jai Sri Krsna Dear Shvu: Irrespective of the matter, whether the Bhagavad Gita was translated correctly or not, did you ever entertain the thought that in this world there may be a possibility that there may be some followers of Prabhupada’s teachings, who may actually be rendering his or her’s devotional service with pure heart and love to Krsna. One does not necessrily need to question or need to understand each and every word of Bhagavad Gita or Vedic literature to render pure and loving service to Krsna. In view of this, on what grounds do you proclaim all the devotees to be “fans”. Hari Bole.

Hare Krsna Dear Shvu Thank you for your response. My knowledge of Sanskrit is nil, so please excuse my ignorance. "Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality.........." BG 7.24 If this translation is correct, then does not the line “ .....I, the Supreme prsonality of Godhead, Krsna, was impersonal before and have assumed this personality....” clearly imply that Krsna was not impersonal before and has not assumed this personality. This would suggest that by not being impersonal before, Krsna always had a form. I agree, in either case, nothing is lost. Hari Bole

"Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all living entities, I still appear in every millennium in My Original Form" BG 4.6 "Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality.........." BG 7.24 Here A.C. Prabhupada interprets that Krsna (Supreme Lord) appears as himself. In other words the supreme Lord (God) has a personal form and that form is that of Krsna. Further "Therefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Krsna..........." BG 8.7 Here A.C. Prabhupada further interprets that Krsna wants Arjun to fix his mind on Krsna's personal form. In view of this many Krsna devotees are still of the opinion that God incarnated as Krsna and assumed a personal form. The God does not have any form. They explain this idea in terms of Sakar and Nirakar. I am looking for direct and clear evidence in Vedic literature which can or cannot confirm A.C.Prabhupada's interpretation.

Radhey Radhey Dear Jayasriradhey Thank you for the enlightment. I would also like to thank to all who contributed to this topic. Hari Bole Girish N. Gohil

Taken from "Newsletter #28 of NZ Hare Krishna" Whois Sri Krishna? ******************* Krishna is God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This fact is stated and corroborated in the Vedic scriptures and by various authorities. Lord Brahma in Brahma Samhita says, "Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes" (BS 5.1). In the Bhagavata Purana Krishna becomes the chief object of devotion. After describing various incarnations of the Lord such as Rama, Balarama, Vamana, Nrsimha, and Vishnu, Srila Sukadeva Goswami states, "All of the above mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead" (SB 1.3.28). Lord Shiva in Gita Mahatmya, states that "let there be only one God - Krishna, the son of Devaki" (Verse 7). In the Padma Purana it is stated, "By scrutinizingly reviewing all the revealed scriptures and judging them again and again, it is now concluded that Lord Narayana is the Supreme Absolute Truth, and thus He alone should be worshipped". Similarly it is said in the Skanda Purana, "In the material world, which is full of darkness and dangers, combined with birth and death and full of different anxieties, the only way to get out of the great entanglement is to accept loving transcendental devotional service to Lord Vasudeva. This is accepted by all classes of philosophers". The position of Krishna as God is confirmed by great personalities like Narada, Asita, Devala, Vyasa, Parasara, Brahma and Shiva. Finally Krishna Himself confirms this fact in the Bhagavad Gita to His friend and devotee, Arjuna. He clearly says that He is "the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods" (BG 5.29), that "there is no truth superior to Me" (BG 7.7) and - "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me" (BG 10.8). What is the position of Krishna? ******************************** As God, there is no one equal to or greater than Krishna. He is the original, unborn, eternal person, the most ancient, completely independent, and the cause of all causes. Parasara Muni, the father of Srila Vyasadeva and a great scholar who had himself held the position of Vyasa in a previous kalpa, very nicely defines the position of Bhagavana (God) as one Who is complete in six kinds of opulence namely - wisdom, beauty, fame, power, wealth and renunciation. While there are many great personalities who are very famous or very wealthy, only Krishna as God is replete in all six opulence. The scriptures not only give us the unique position of Krishna but also give us a detailed description of all His aspects. They tell us that above this temporary material universe is an eternal spiritual world called Vaikuntha, and Krishna lives in the topmost planet of this universe called Goloka Vrindavana which is full of palaces made of touch-stone (cintamani), with trees that are capable of fulfilling all desires (kalpa-vraksha) and cows that are called Surabhi. Here Krishna eternally resides, served by hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune. He sports with His most confidential and intimate devotees, headed by Srimati Radharani. He has a form just like us but His body is spiritual and thus eternal. His complexion is dark-blue, like that of a rain-filled cloud and His eyes are like lotus petals. He is ever youthful, full of bliss and His beauty excels that of thousands of cupids. He likes to play the flute, He sports a crown with a peacock feather and He is adorned by the exquisite kastuba jewel. What is Krishna avatar? ************************ In Caitanya-caritamrita (2.20.263-264) it is stated that the "avatara, or incarnation of Godhead, descends from the kingdom of God for creating and maintaining the material manifestation. And the particular form of the Personality of Godhead who so descends is called an incarnation, or avatara. Such incarnations are situated in the spiritual world, the kingdom of God. When They descend to the material creation, They assume the name avatar." The Srimad Bhagavatam states that there are countless incarnations just like the waves of the oceans. They fall in various categories like lila (pastime), yuga (period of yuga), manavantara (period of Manu), purusa (Vishnu expansions) and shaktivesa (empowered). These avatars perform various pastimes based on the time, place and circumstances, but their purpose is always the same - "to attract the conditioned souls back to their eternal spiritual abode". The incarnations emanate from Vishnu. Maha-Vishnu is the original cause of all material creation and from Him Garbhodakashai-Vishnu expands and then Ksirodakasayi-Vishnu. Generally all incarnations appearing within the material world are plenary portions of Ksirodakasayi-Vishnu (also known as Hari). However only once in a day of Lord Brahma (which lasts for 4.32 billion of our years), does Krishna descend in His original form, as the avataree, the cause of all avatars. When Krishna appears all the incarnations join with Him. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the complete whole and all the plenary portions and incarnations always live with Him. So when Krishna appeared, Lord Vishnu was always with Him, and while Krishna enjoyed His pastimes in Vrindavana, the killing of the demons was actually carried out by the His Vishnu portion. Since Krishna eternally resides in Vrindavana, when He left Vrindavana at the age of ten, it was His Vasudeva expansion that actually left. Appearance of Krishna ********************** In the era of the Svayambhuva Manu, prajapati Sutapa and his wife Prsni were instructed by Lord Brahma to have progeny. They performed severe austerities for twelve thousand years of the demigods to have the Lord as their child. Pleased by their austerities the Lord appeared and granted them this benediction. Since He gave them this benediction three times, in Satya-yuga He first appeared as the son of Prsni and Sutapa and was called Prsnigarba. In Treta-yuga they were Aditi and Kasyapa Muni and the Lord appeared as Vamanadeva. Finally in the Dvapara yuga, Krishna in His original form, appeared as the child of Devaki and Vasudeva. Krishna appeared specifically on the request of Bhudevi, the presiding deity of the Earth planet. Distressed by the burden of many demons who had appeared as powerful Kshatriyas and were ruling the planet impiously, she assumed the form of a cow and pleaded to Lord Brahma for help. Lord Brahma with all the demigods prayed to Vishnu in Svetadvipa by chanting the Purusa-sukta prayers. At this time the Lord informed Brahma that in order to establish religiosity and destroy evil, He would soon appear as His original Self. In the meantime the various demigods were instructed to take birth in various families in the Yadu dynasty and prepare for the appearance of the Lord. Lifeline of Krishna ******************* Historically, Lord Krishna appeared in the Dvapara yuga, on the midnight of the 8th day of the dark half of the month of Sravana. This corresponds to July 19th 3228 BC. He exhibited His pastimes for a little over 125 years and disappeared on February 18th 3102 BC on the new moon night of Phalguna. His departure marks the beginning of the current age of corruption known as Kali. The great scholar Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti neatly outlines Lord Krishna's activities in this way. He was born in Mathura in the prison cell of Kamsa and carried to Gokula. The first three years and four months were spent in Gokula, then equal lengths of time in Vrindavana and Nandagram. At the age of eleven He left Vrindavan for Mathura where He lived for eighteen years and four months, and finally ninety-six years and eight months in Dvaraka totaling about 126 years of manifest pastimes. At the time of Mahabharata, when Krishna spoke the Bhagavad Gita, He was about ninety years of age. Pastimes of Krishna ******************* The tenth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam describes the activities and transcen dental pastimes of Sri Krishna. They are also described in the epic Mahabharata, specially in the Bhishma parva which also contains the Bhagavad Gita. The pastimes of Krishna appeal to the liberated souls, those that are trying to get liberated and also to the gross materialists. The pastimes of Sri Krishna, known as Krishna-katha fall into two categories. Words spoken by Krishna, as the Bhagavad Gita, and words spoken about Krishna, as in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Souls in the liberated stage derive great pleasure in relishing anything and everything related to Krishna. For those that are trying to be liberated, Krishna-katha makes their path of liberation very clear. By studying the Gita one becomes fully conscious of the position of Sri Krishna; and when one is situated at the lotus feet of the Lord, he understands the narration's of Krishna as described in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Even the gross materialists are attracted by the pleasure pastimes of Krishna with the Gopis and His wives. Even though the loving affairs of Krishna have nothing to do with the gross, mundane sex affairs, they attract the people engrossed in sense-gratification and gradually elevate them to higher levels of spirituality. Causeless mercy of Krishna ************************* Even though Krishna is completely self sufficient and self satisfied, He descends for the benefit of all the conditioned souls. His most endearing quality is that of "bhakta vatsala". His pure devotees are always trying to please Him, and He is always trying to please His devotees. Just as He lives in the heart of His devotees, His devotees constantly reside in Him. Krishna is so merciful that He not only helps His devotees, but also those who are envious of Him. Krishna destroys evil by providing them with an opportunity to take up devotion. On the greatly auspicious day of Krishna-Janamashtami, let us all pray to Sri Krishna for a drop of His causeless mercy, for only that alone is sufficient to take us out from this material word, back home, back to Godhead.

"Thus I have explained to you knowledge still more confidential. Deliberate on this fully, and then DO WHAT YOU WISH TO DO" Bhagavad Gita 18.63 In spite of all the trancendental knowledge given to us, perhaps we are free to make a decision at will.

What if, instead of a snake one came across: a. Any animal (including a Cow). b. A Human being. Which of the two option be correct, killing or getting killed.

Given a hypothetical situation. Let us assume that one is a devotee of Krsna. One is sitting under a tree in a jungle and is attemting to meditate on Krsna. During this process a poisonous snake arrives and decides to strike one. What does one do? Option 1: One is perfectly aware that the snake's body, the snake's fangs, the poison, the snake's energy, etc. indirectly comes from the Lord. Additionally, the snake's soul is also etrnally related to the Lord. The only entity that probably is not controlled by Krsna is the "Will" of the snake. Further, one also habor's the knowledge that the Lord is always in control. Being aware of this knowledge does one decided to kill the snake knowing that the soul of the snake is free to make it's own decision and this decision is not necessarily Krsna's. OR Option 2: In addition to knowing all of the above should one further understand that the "Ability" of the soul to make an independent decision" also comes from Krsna. Hence one should let the snake strike.

I understand: a. That unalloyed devotees of Krsna are very dear to him (Krsna). b. That Krsna can not tolerate suffering of his close devotees. c. That Krsna is partial to his devotees. We use this special relationship of Krsna and his devotees to our personal advantage. e.g. 1. Offering food to Guru first and then to Krsna, knowing full well that offering made by Guru (unalloyed devotee) to Krsna will always be accepted. 2. Blessings given by Guru (specially when one has done nothing to earn it) are very important because Krsna will owner Guru's blessing merely out of love for his devotees. d. That to learn and understand the spiritual truth about Krsna we will need his blessing at every step of the way. Thus, blessing would come more readily from Krsna if one was to receive instructions from a Guru. (plus learning from a Guru is always easier) e. Offences committed against Guru are of very serious nature in this world and in the spiritual world. Such is the constituently position of a Guru. In view of this it becomes difficult to understand why would A. C. Prabhupada had to tolerate such hardship in his early days in USA. ( for example A. C. Prabhupada experienced two heart attacks on his first voyage to USA) I also understand that we will never be wise enough to fully understand Lord's plans for us. Since, Krsna is perfect in every way, his actions are perfect in everyway. Any difficulty experienced in understanding his actions is nothing but an indication of our ignorance. Please comment. Hari Bole.