ggohil

Hare Krsna: Dear Shvu: >>>“.... They presumed that there must be some purpose and then they set out to find it.” Yes, I understand what you are saying. But I tend to think that the people “realized” (rather then presumed) that the life is more then just eat, live and die, so they set out to find the purpose of life. : )

Hare Krsna: Sri Anurag: I am probably the least qualified to answer this questions. But here is my understanding. Our natural state is to be eternally happy. Eternal happiness cannot be achieved as long as our happiness is based on the material things. Secondly, in our natural state the eternal happiness is only achieved by association with the Almighty. Thirdly, it just so happens that our association with the Almighty is best achieved by serving him.

 Hare Krsna: Sri Shvu: As far as the theory of evolution is concerned it is just a theory, just like any other science theory. In science there is no proof for “Love” and “Feelings” yet they exist. Just few months back I heard on TV that science had enough evidence to show that mother’s milk is good for the new born. Does this mean the mother’s milk was not good for the new born babies until it was proven? I am not saying that Science should be ignored. All I am saying is that the scientific results are only good as the experiment performed. The results from the experiments are not necessarily the absolute truth. If God is speculation, then we must also acknowledge that Science that proves this is also speculation.

Hari Bole: Sri Shvu: Hari Bole: Sri Shvu: “There is no common purpose of life” Is there a poof of this? Is there a proof that we were not created?

Hare Krsna: Sri Rakesh: I think we should educate ourselves with the knowledge of Vedas. I think we should talk openly and discuss this knowledge. I have noticed that Indians are sometimes against people who preach religion, and at the same time they aggressively oppose conversion of Hindus to another faith. In my view, people will convert if there is no one providing needed religious guidance. However, I am not directly worried about our religion becoming extinct. I think almighty shoulders that responsibility. I believe our job is to follow his instructions sincerely and develop true devotion.

Sorry, the above sentence should read "The creation (including people) is part of his will." I, who constantly make mistakes, am part of his creation too. : )

 Hare Krsna: Sri Animesh Here is my two cents worth. I always thought that one must love God’s creations before one can truly love God. If I am to love Sri Krsna then I must love his will and the creation (including people, good or bad) is part of his will.

Hare Krsna: Dear Shvu Perhaps one cannot prove immortality, eternal bliss, and so on. But why attach so much importance to the proof. Any item that is proved is only good as the information available at that time. I do not think any one can argue that any scientific proof is eternal. But the authenticity about Veda’s comes, not from the material proof, but reciprocation from almighty. If this reciprocation was proved than it only would be as good as the material proof.

 Sri Shvu >> “ They did that by bringing in religion, the promise of eternal Bliss, and the fear of negative Karma” How does one account for individuals who have given up the society completely and have decided to the live in exile. The rules of “being a good member of the society” does not apply to this kind of people. Further, this kind of people will assert that they have found something that is eyond material value. Does this indicated that purpose of religion may go beyond "being a good member of the society." Being a good member of the society may only be the byproduct of following Sri Krsna’s teachings. On what grounds is one to categorically dismiss the possibility of other significance of Krsna’s teachings which may not be as apparent.

Yes, I inclined to agree with you. (PS if you do get to Vaikunta have a little word with him and ask him to be little more resonable)

Hari Bole Shuvji: Just few thoughts. “People who have spent years in devotion and found nothing”. But at the same time there are many people who have spent time in devotion and have found something. I guess there is an argument on each side. If one receives some sort of reciprocation from faith. Then who is to say that was imagination or the reciprocation was not from Krsna. If there is really is reciprocation then may be Krsna is not imaginary. “No one can prove existence of God” I always thought all forms of proofs are in a material form. Since God claims he is not of material base, then perhaps there is no way of proving his existence. My faith came after seeing logic in BG. I agree at closer scrutiny there are many things which do not make sense. On the other hand there is a possibility we are misunderstanding things that we do not understand. No one really knows what one feels or at what level. How can one with any authority disqualify Transcendental Bliss since we cannot look inside what one feels. For example, one’s soul may travel to Krsna’s abode and experience transcendental bliss. ( This may be impossible to prove.) Nonetheless, one would have experienced transcendental bliss. Even though one may not be able to adequately explain it.

Hare Krsna Questioning the Vedas, studying the Vedas, discussing the Vedas, proving the Vedas wrong, is one thing. But living the life of devotion is another. (In the words of one Rishi) Seek not Krsna in the “books” or in the “universe” for you will not find him. Rather, live with endless love for Krsna, and let Krsna seek you out. Sumeetji I will answer you request later.

 Sri Animeshji, Yes, I agree with you. But the point I was making is that as new theories are developed the face of science keeps changing, it is not absolute. On the other hand the knowledge of Vedas is considered to be absolute. I a man of Science, my back ground is in Mechanical Engineering, therefore I appreciatec development in Science, especially about Newton and Einstein. (Newton was my idol in the school days )

Hari Bole I think Vedas are questioned. I certainly question it. I also acknowledge that Vedas may be completely man made. However, I think Vedas in essence, unlike experiments of science, is not about history or proof . As I said, it is all about faith. Personally, by studying BG, I, among many things, found happiness and peace within myself, and henceforth the “faith”. The validity of the of Vedas is really secondary importance to me. Therefore, in this context Science and Vedas are incomparable. One is based on material proof and the other has nothing to with material proof. Science is ever changing and faith is not suppose to be. Just a little note on Einstein’s theory. Einstein’s theory completely disqualified Newton’s all three laws of motion. The only reason Newton’s laws of motions are still considered because his equations utilizes velocities of small magnitudes hence the errors are negligible.

Hare Krsna Just a thought Science has been proven wrong many times. Science is evolving knowledge. Sri Krsna's teachings is considered to be absolute. I do not know if one can rely on science to prove The Absolute. I understand you even doubt the authenticity of Gita or if Krsna ever exited. : )

 Hari Bole Yes, I agree. That is why, in this context, one cannot say, I have faith because the literature is consistent with Science. There is always a possibility that the Vedic Literature is man made. Though no one, with any degree of accuracy, can say how much of it is man made. However, faith is really above all this. A person who has faith needs no proof, while, A person without faith, no amount of proof will suffice.

Hare Krsna We have tendency to cheat. We have tendency to be mislead. --------- It is interesting to observe how condtioned we all are. If Krishna appeared before us now with a hair-cut, t-shirt and jeans, we would not react at all. ---------- Some of us accept, by choice, Krsna’s appearance from Vedic Literature. If Krsna appeared in Jeans and T shirt, naturally we will not recognize him or accept him as Krsna, simply because people can cheat. ---------- However if we had a hallucination about a dark figure, with a peacock feather and a flute, we would get all excited. That is conditioning to an image. We are in love with the image. ---------- Unfortunately, we can only behold what we can see and read. Krsna’s image is associated with dark figure, flute and feather. If Krsna decided to come as door knob, are you suggesting we ought to recognize him. Naturally, it is the Krsna’s image we see therefore it is that image we love. ---------- Indra then appeared before the Devotee as a Chandala [low caste guy] and offered him the nectar. The devotee was apalled by the sight of the Chandala and refused it accept it, in spite of Indira's insistence. --------- So are you suggesting that we should take every thing on it’s face value. Wrong or right the Devotee only wanted to accept nectar from the Krsna so he refused from Chandala. Morally, this may be wrong, but you cannot be suggesting that Devotee should have known that was Indra or Krsna. When one opens the front door of his home, he will only allow entrance to the people he knows and refuse to the one he does not. Perhaps you may regard this as conditioned mind too. I am sorry Shvu I really do not understand the point you are trying to make. : ) PS thanks for your other replys.

Hare Krsna Thanks Shvu How did Advaita differ from the Buddhism?

Jai Sri Krsna Shvu, sorry to stray away from the subject. In BG, Sri Krsna claims himself to be the Supreme. He revels all kinds of absolute knowledge to Arjun. He even makes bold statements like "Ch 7.7 Higher than Myself there is nothing else...." and "(Ch 7.2 ....knowing which there remains nothing further to be known here." And yet curiously he leaves one crucial piece of information out, that he is in fact an incarnation of Vishnu or Narayan.

Hare Krsna Excuse my ignorance: I would like to know what Advaita means.

Hare Krsna Vedic knowledge is like a finger pointing towards the Moon. If one’s scrutiny or focus is only on the finger then one will miss the glory of the Moon. At some point in life, after taking direction from Vedas, one must give one’s unconditional and unreserved submission, to experience the Glory.

Jai Sri Krsna Sorry one more line to make the above point clear. The process of Devotion does not stop in the light of not receive anything back in return, hence "unconditional". The process of Devotion is rendered out of Love and Love alone without any obligation or expectation. If one expects anything back in this kind of Love then the relations becomes a material one.

Hare Krsna Dear Shvu Yes, the saying is a good one. I never did understand it until recently. ------- If the intent is to experience the glory, then the submission is not unconditonal. We are being submissive only to get something in return. ------ No, Shvu I thing you have missed the point. Submission is unconditional and is without any expectation. The Glory is the “By Product” of this process. The whole formula breaks down completely as soon as one expect anything in devotion. What ever you receive must be by product of the devotion without any expectation. I guess this is the difference between the this world and the spiritul world. By the way I received the BG by Swami Vireswaranda.

Then, it leaves nothing more to say but Radhey Radhey and Radhey Radhey

 Hare Krsna: Sri Shvu, They may help some people out. But the fact remains that the Jnana marga [Path of knowledge] appeals to very few people. ------------- They may help some people, but for how long. Until some one comes with a another clever idea. Failure of Jana Marga’s appeal does not make it invalid. -------- May I point out that the source of all our knowledge, at all times, is our senses only ? -------- Yes, but my point was that our sense principally picked this knowledge from Vedas, the senses did not create it at will. ------- Personally, we all prefer that which we find appealing, logical and attractive. -------------------- Absolutely, Hari Bole