madhav

Ref: >>King got his ideas from Gandhi who in turn got his ideas from Mahaprabhu. A kind of partially disjoint parampara, if you will. << Gandhi did not get the satyagraha idea from Mahaprabhu. As far as I know, he hardly has studied any literature about chaitanya. He was not a stounch Hindu like Vallabh bhai Patel, or Gopalkrishna Gokhle, but he was a stounch Jain at heart. Jainism is an atheist offshoot of Hinduism. While non violence is not an absolute principle in Hinduism, it is absolute in Jainism. When one has to confront ideologists like Nazis, or Islamists, this satyagraha/ non-violence principle does not work, cannot work. I really wish the HK's understand this. The British left india because of the possibility of army mutny. They however gave credit to Gandhi for nn violence rather than saying, "we got scared of our lives due to emminent army mutny." Jai Sri Krishna!

Intolerance towards the six types of aatataayies is dharma. To tolerate aatataayaies is adharma because it encourages them to do more sin/harm towards the society. Jai Sri Krishna!

Dear stonehearted das, your above two responses are good. i did not know you were so sensitive about capital s in stonehearted word. since you did not like prabhu word, i have used das word. i cannot use jerk word, sorry. ok, vaishesika prabhu can be said brahmana vaishnav. you seem to know him more than i do. let me try to expand what i meant by competition. a devotee first competes with him/her self. he whould try to do something better than he did it before. a society or movement by a group cannot progress without some organization, heirarchy and leadership, and responsibility distribution. so, best leaders are chosen by comparing one against the other. so it is a competition but friendly and without envy. Now regarding: >>The transcendental devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy, but are well-wishers to everyone,<< The Hindus would easily respect this behavior of KC persons, but the Muslims do not get impressed by it at all. Their agenda as set by Koran is to take over the world and make every one a Muslim. This they are pursuing it; and India, the Hindus, already have lost a lot of land, and all the muslims that are there are the decendents of the Hindus who were forcibley convertred to Islam. So, The focus of HK's I think should be to give KC to the Muslims ten times more than the Hindus who never have desire to convert any one against one's wish. Instead, what i see is that effort to give KC in the Muslims world is very very less. akshardham temple and raghunath temples are already attacked. what do HK's think about it please? Is in not an attack on them, the vedic culture? What they plan to do about terrorism? It is coming like a wild fire. To think that just sankirtana and chanting will stop the demons is very childish in my view. Their history of aggresions show that they really do not care how nice Hk's are. So, suppose some asura comes with weapons in a sankirtan party, then what would HK's do? Accept Islam to stay alive, or get killed? Any of the option is not desirable. The right action is to do smoething so that such no terrorist can come like that in the first place. That is a preventative measure and best in my view. To do nothing about terrorism proactively is to invite disaster at the door step. Just recently a Muslim killed three christians missionaries in Jordan. What is wrong in studying Koran and Hadith and find out what it has that produces so many terrorists? Why so many rich Muslims are supporting terrorism? A society will have kshatriyas, and HK's cannot do their KC work without the protection from kshatriyas. kshatriya dharma is: "know thy enemy". More they know about enemy the better they can make their strategy and tactis to fight and win. Would HK's not want kshatriyas to win these barbarians? Are Hk's able to win /cool the barbarisna before kshatriyas can win? Jai Sri Krishna!

Dear stonehearted das, your above two responses are good. i did not know you were so sensitive about capital s in stonehearted word. since you did not like prabhu word, i have used das word. i cannot use jerk word, sorry. ok, vaishesika prabhu can be said brahmana vaishnav. you seem to know him more than i do. let me try to expand what i meant by competition. a devotee first competes with him/her self. he whould try to do something better than he did it before. a society or movement by a group cannot progress without some organization, heirarchy and leadership, and responsibility distribution. so, best leaders are chosen by comparing one against the other. so it is a competition but friendly and without envy. Now regarding: >>The transcendental devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy, but are well-wishers to everyone,<< The Hindus would easily respect this behavior of KC persons, but the Muslims do not get impressed by it at all. Their agenda as set by Koran is to take over the world and make every one a Muslim. This they are pursuing it; and India, the Hindus, already have lost a lot of land, and all the muslims that are there are the decendents of the Hindus who were forcibley convertred to Islam. So, The focus of HK's I think should be to give KC to the Muslims ten times more than the Hindus who never have desire to convert any one against one's wish. Instead, what i see is that effort to give KC in the Muslims world is very very less. akshardham temple and raghunath temples are already attacked. what do HK's think about it please? Is in not an attack on them, the vedic culture? What they plan to do about terrorism? It is coming like a wild fire. To think that just sankirtana and chanting will stop the demons is very childish in my view. Their history of aggresions show that they really do not care how nice Hk's are. So, suppose some asura comes with weapons in a sankirtan party, then what would HK's do? Accept Islam to stay alive, or get killed? Any of the option is not desirable. The right action is to do smoething so that such no terrorist can come like that in the first place. That is a preventative measure and best in my view. To do nothing about terrorism proactively is to invite disaster at the door step. Just recently a Muslim killed three christians missionaries in Jordan. What is wrong in studying Koran and Hadith and find out what it has that produces so many terrorists? Why so many rich Muslims are supporting terrorism? A society will have kshatriyas, and HK's cannot do their KC work without the protection from kshatriyas. kshatriya dharma is: "know thy enemy". More they know about enemy the better they can make their strategy and tactis to fight and win. Would HK's not want kshatriyas to win these barbarians? Are Hk's able to win /cool the barbarisna before kshatriyas can win? Jai Sri Krishna!

thousands of jivas may be competing to get into that conceived body. maya laughs, saying, "I got these two." :-) Jai Sri Krishna!

In response to: >>A great devotee of Krishna, indeed. However, her line of thought is not acceptable to Gaudiya Vaishnavas, because the conclusion of Meerabai's teachings/bhajans is that it may be desirable to achieve sayujya-mukti. << These differences are at very high level or realization, and most of us are at grass level. Also note that Meera did not start a sampradaya, Chaitanya did. She was a pure bhakta, and she did achieve mukti. That counts. Within vedic society there are several sampradayas, and they alwasy compete with each other; but it is a family intrnal quarrel. It is not a war like jeehad that is imposed on the world by Islamists. What I have heard about Meera is that when she went to vrindavan, she knew that Jiva Goswami was there. So she sent a messagner to him expressing her desire to greet him. Jiva Goswami sent back the message that he does not meet women. So, Meera sent the message to him: "Oh, I would like to see who is another purusha in vrindaba. All I see is only krishna is purusha here." Getting this message, Jiva Goswami immeditately came and met her with great reverence and love. I believe Jiva Goswami never had any complaint about this. I would be interested to know what the history books say about this meeting. In vedic culure no one falls down by praising other devotees. Jai Sri Krishna!

In response to: >>A great devotee of Krishna, indeed. However, her line of thought is not acceptable to Gaudiya Vaishnavas, because the conclusion of Meerabai's teachings/bhajans is that it may be desirable to achieve sayujya-mukti. << These differences are at very high level or realization, and most of us are at grass level. Also note that Meera did not start a sampradaya, Chaitanya did. She was a pure bhakta, and she did achieve mukti. That counts. Within vedic society there are several sampradayas, and they alwasy compete with each other; but it is a family intrnal quarrel. It is not a war like jeehad that is imposed on the world by Islamists. What I have heard about Meera is that when she went to vrindavan, she knew that Jiva Goswami was there. So she sent a messagner to him expressing her desire to greet him. Jiva Goswami sent back the message that he does not meet women. So, Meera sent the message to him: "Oh, I would like to see who is another purusha in vrindaba. All I see is only krishna is purusha here." Getting this message, Jiva Goswami immeditately came and met her with great reverence and love. I believe Jiva Goswami never had any complaint about this. I would be interested to know what the history books say about this meeting. In vedic culure no one falls down by praising other devotees. Jai Sri Krishna!

i have tried it too. i think it is good with, two drawbacks: - In includes calcium carbonate (chalk) in it to give appearance of milk. This CaCO3 is not soluble in water and is not an organic compound. So, if we eat it, it goes through the system and I believe it cannot give calcium the body needs. Body can use inorganic compounds of calcium only. Consequently, their claim that it is calcium rich is misleading. In the stomach I have felt weight of calcium carbonate like stone. - We should depend less and less on tehnology if we can. So, we need to learn how to make soymilk at home or in a temple. Else we would have to go to work in factories that produce soymilk (which is not really bad compared to working in wine factory.) Jai Sri Krishna!

Stoneheaded prabhu wrote: >>The transcendental devotees strive to establish a competitionless society with God in the center. << With god in center yes, competion less no. KC persons always compete with maya. Not only they compete internally within each person ow within KC society, but evey compete with distributing products and sevices tht increase KC in external society. Chaitanya did satyagraha against kazi. That is competition. He transformed Jai and Madhai. That is competition. He said, just chant this mantra. That is competition. He said spread KC in the world. That is competition. Competition cannot ba avoided in this material world. Even in the spiritual world there is some competition under the infuence of mahamaya. e.g. one gopi would feel jealous of another for something. When there is no competition, the creation comes to holt. Even in HK temples, if there is no competition to peform superior seva, the temples wouldnot get qualifeid leaders and presidents or GBC's, or Goswamis. Jai Sri Krishna!

Stoneheaded prabhu wrote: >>The transcendental devotees strive to establish a competitionless society with God in the center. << With god in center yes, competion less no. KC persons always compete with maya. Not only they compete internally within each person ow within KC society, but evey compete with distributing products and sevices tht increase KC in external society. Chaitanya did satyagraha against kazi. That is competition. He transformed Jai and Madhai. That is competition. He said, just chant this mantra. That is competition. He said spread KC in the world. That is competition. Competition cannot ba avoided in this material world. Even in the spiritual world there is some competition under the infuence of mahamaya. e.g. one gopi would feel jealous of another for something. When there is no competition, the creation comes to holt. Even in HK temples, if there is no competition to peform superior seva, the temples wouldnot get qualifeid leaders and presidents or GBC's, or Goswamis. Jai Sri Krishna!

My Dear jndas prabhu, Thanks for letting me know propr use of brackets. dandvat! -m --------------------------- Stonehearted prabhu wrote: >>you'll find that those who become Krishna conscious are beyond varnashrama. << It is not true and is not possible. A shudra labors for body, a vaishnav shudra labors for Krishna. A vaishya does business for money/ senses, a vaishnav vaishya sells books, milk, insense, CD's, and spiritual paraphernalia for Krishna. Some want to make a lot of money to donate for temples and gurukulas, e.g. Vaishesika prabhu. A kshatriya serves city as police or a nation as a soldier, a vaishnav solder can do the same or protect KC people from miscreants. HK's do use such kshatriyas, even as guptacharas. When one HK group person reports how good or bad other HK group is doing, then it is guptachara or sandeshvaha karma of a kshatriya. A brahmana studies scriptures, and pratices dharma, and preaches others. A vaishnav brahmana studies Krishna scriptures, practices KC and preaches others the same. So, a KC person is a vaishnava, and vaishnava is only a section of varnastama society. Or, any KC society can be seen divided into these for varnas, doing seva for Krishna according to their gunas and karmas. Only those devotees who are fully liberted, who are in consant touch with Krishna, who can talk and listen to Krishna have no duty to do, but they still do it to set an example for others. They already have attained vaikuntha or Krishna loka. Jai Sri Krishna!

My Dear jndas prabhu, Thanks for letting me know propr use of brackets. dandvat! -m --------------------------- Stonehearted prabhu wrote: >>you'll find that those who become Krishna conscious are beyond varnashrama. << It is not true and is not possible. A shudra labors for body, a vaishnav shudra labors for Krishna. A vaishya does business for money/ senses, a vaishnav vaishya sells books, milk, insense, CD's, and spiritual paraphernalia for Krishna. Some want to make a lot of money to donate for temples and gurukulas, e.g. Vaishesika prabhu. A kshatriya serves city as police or a nation as a soldier, a vaishnav solder can do the same or protect KC people from miscreants. HK's do use such kshatriyas, even as guptacharas. When one HK group person reports how good or bad other HK group is doing, then it is guptachara or sandeshvaha karma of a kshatriya. A brahmana studies scriptures, and pratices dharma, and preaches others. A vaishnav brahmana studies Krishna scriptures, practices KC and preaches others the same. So, a KC person is a vaishnava, and vaishnava is only a section of varnastama society. Or, any KC society can be seen divided into these for varnas, doing seva for Krishna according to their gunas and karmas. Only those devotees who are fully liberted, who are in consant touch with Krishna, who can talk and listen to Krishna have no duty to do, but they still do it to set an example for others. They already have attained vaikuntha or Krishna loka. Jai Sri Krishna!

<<My babies were really cute and we just chanted the Holy Name, never tried to distribute or sell anything but the people came straight to us with donations....thinking about it...in India they always tried to rip me off. >> atma prabhu, i find it difficult to belive you get bad experience in India. If it is really true, then I feel sorry. Jai Sri Krishna!

There is a Nucler Engineer/Physicist, Vasu Murthy, in Oakland, CA. He informed me several years ago that he has done research in early christianity and has written 1200 page book of his finding that shows a lot commonality between Christniaty and Vaishnavism. Whether he has published the book or not, I do not know. Let all know if it is published and you know it. Jai Sri Krishna!

A look is about beauty. Beauty is in the eyes (mind/heart) of the beholder. A look is a tool/weapon of maya. Abraham Lincoln's look was not beautiful, I have heard. Vyasadev was blakish and ugly looking. Swami Muktananda was so beautiful that his guru Swami Sahajananda had ordered him to cover his whole body and head except the front face, so that women would not get attracted to him. A look can attract people, but cannot hold them for long if there is no beauty of character. Once a noble character beauty of a person becomes known, a look becomes transparent. Jai Sri Krishna!

Guest prabhu wrote: <<Maybe Lord Chaitanya had bi-polar disorder, considering His mood swings and faintings. >> Yes, according to that psychiatrist, but if Guest Prabhu thinks it that way, then too sad. Krishna says: yaa nishaa sarva bhUtaanaam tasyaam jagarti sanyami yasyaam jagriti bhUtaani yaa nishaa pasyato mune Any positive or negative minority in a majority could be viewed by the majority as crazies. So, a democracy run by a majority is not a perfect society/government. Jai Sri Krishna!

Stonehearted prabhu wrote: >>but Srila Prabhupada's mission is actually to produce vaishnavas. << Yes. Vaishnavas are those who worship Vishnu (Krishna). The worshippers come from the vedic society that has four varnas (brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya, and shudra). Or, those who become HK become a part of varnasrama. So, Prabhupada has said, his mission is to produce first class brahmanas, the spiritual heads (guides and leaders) of the society. This time (of worldwide terrorism) now requires kshatriyas, non violent as well as violent if that becomes necessary. Any varna can do something within his/her ability to subdue this terrorism monster. Suppose all become pure non violent brahmanas, then there will not be police, military, guards, and no one to protect the vedic society and their religious infrastructure. In the past 1000 years all these infrastructure have beed brutally destroyed by the Islamists in India. Who would want such barbarism to continue unchecked? Woudl it be dharma to not resist it? Jai Sri Krishna!

Stonehearted prabhu wrote: >>but Srila Prabhupada's mission is actually to produce vaishnavas. << Yes. Vaishnavas are those who worship Vishnu (Krishna). The worshippers come from the vedic society that has four varnas (brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya, and shudra). Or, those who become HK become a part of varnasrama. So, Prabhupada has said, his mission is to produce first class brahmanas, the spiritual heads (guides and leaders) of the society. This time (of worldwide terrorism) now requires kshatriyas, non violent as well as violent if that becomes necessary. Any varna can do something within his/her ability to subdue this terrorism monster. Suppose all become pure non violent brahmanas, then there will not be police, military, guards, and no one to protect the vedic society and their religious infrastructure. In the past 1000 years all these infrastructure have beed brutally destroyed by the Islamists in India. Who would want such barbarism to continue unchecked? Woudl it be dharma to not resist it? Jai Sri Krishna!

Krishna says: kim karma kim karmeti kavayo'pyatra mohitaah. (Gita 4.16) We all can get confused about what is right karma at a time. So, let us discuss it. My resposne to ethos prabhu's lines in <> is shown below it. Please remember that I am not argueing with ethos prabhu, but only discussing the points raised. <<It is through God and religion that we know right and wrong. And we can know these things through study and practice.>> Yes, and until we have realized god, we could make mistakes in deciding what is right karma at a time. Also, we need to know well that the Hindus respect and revere us for studying the vedic leterature and worship Krishna, the Islamists (or Koranists) believe we are demoniac and totally deluded adharmis. They cannot stand us or our activities. <<Prabhupada said the whole world was implicated in sin. He called us all melechas. But he gave his love anyway. And Miracles resulted.>> Yes, could you see why it happened? We could appreciate Prabhupada because we are not from Islam culture. Within us, any one who has come from islam faith is very rare. Of course Chaitanya was so strong a personality that two royal and rich muslims became his disciples (Rupa and Sanatan Goswamis). So, just like this, we need to help the Muslims (Bin Laden and party and their supporters) give up Islam and accept Krishna Bhakti. Now how it could happen? They have AK-47's etc. and we just have mala, kartal, and mridangas. Just as their strength is at body/weapon level, our strength is at intelligence and soul level and they do not have it. So, to use our intelligence to show the world how inhuman Islam is should help. We do not want to lie, as we are brahmanans generally, but we need to know the truth first about Islam. <<We are not about any warfare or politics. Our program is peaceful revolution. Hare Krsna.>> Yes. However, those who have destroyed our vedic temples and taken over our lands and lives and dignity, have already come to us with their agenda of Islamization of the whole world. So, what to do about it? Remember that when HK temples were in political or court troubles, the vedic people did come to support our cause to fight. We all fought together non violently. We still can do it when ever it is needed, but we should not pour cold water on the victims of the demoinac aggressors. If we cannot show kshatriyas what is their dharma at a critical time, how can we expect them follow us the brahmanas (spiritual leaders of the society? If we do not make an environment where in all three lower varnas accept our leadership as the spiritual guides for the society, what good it would be to become a first class brahmanas? If we say, we do not care society, but our selves only, then we really do not have motivation to preach or lead the society. It is sin to lead a society in a wrong direction also at critical times. <<Please desist from this talk of retaliation and killing. It is not the mood of this board. >> Krishna says: kim karma kim karmeti kavayo'pyatra mohitaah (Gita 4.16) Those who have demoniac mood are out all over the world. If Akshardham temple and Raghunath temple destructions cannot open our eyes, then what incident we are waiting for to wake up? When Arjuna said that he will not fight, then Krishna said, "You must." To fail to under the real situation (like Arjuna failed initially) and not fight is adharma. Fortunately we can fight non violently also. That is very kosher fight. But to not fight at all and pour cold water on the victims cannot be justified in my limited buddhi. If there is any confusion in the discussion, I pray the Goswamis to come here and enlighten us. May gurus, sadhus, and shastras help us. Sure, I do not owe this forum nor control it. So, I wll be here till the forum controlelrs allow it and till I feel I could help or learn from here. Jai Sri Krishna!

Krishna says: kim karma kim karmeti kavayo'pyatra mohitaah. (Gita 4.16) We all can get confused about what is right karma at a time. So, let us discuss it. My resposne to ethos prabhu's lines in <> is shown below it. Please remember that I am not argueing with ethos prabhu, but only discussing the points raised. <<It is through God and religion that we know right and wrong. And we can know these things through study and practice.>> Yes, and until we have realized god, we could make mistakes in deciding what is right karma at a time. Also, we need to know well that the Hindus respect and revere us for studying the vedic leterature and worship Krishna, the Islamists (or Koranists) believe we are demoniac and totally deluded adharmis. They cannot stand us or our activities. <<Prabhupada said the whole world was implicated in sin. He called us all melechas. But he gave his love anyway. And Miracles resulted.>> Yes, could you see why it happened? We could appreciate Prabhupada because we are not from Islam culture. Within us, any one who has come from islam faith is very rare. Of course Chaitanya was so strong a personality that two royal and rich muslims became his disciples (Rupa and Sanatan Goswamis). So, just like this, we need to help the Muslims (Bin Laden and party and their supporters) give up Islam and accept Krishna Bhakti. Now how it could happen? They have AK-47's etc. and we just have mala, kartal, and mridangas. Just as their strength is at body/weapon level, our strength is at intelligence and soul level and they do not have it. So, to use our intelligence to show the world how inhuman Islam is should help. We do not want to lie, as we are brahmanans generally, but we need to know the truth first about Islam. <<We are not about any warfare or politics. Our program is peaceful revolution. Hare Krsna.>> Yes. However, those who have destroyed our vedic temples and taken over our lands and lives and dignity, have already come to us with their agenda of Islamization of the whole world. So, what to do about it? Remember that when HK temples were in political or court troubles, the vedic people did come to support our cause to fight. We all fought together non violently. We still can do it when ever it is needed, but we should not pour cold water on the victims of the demoinac aggressors. If we cannot show kshatriyas what is their dharma at a critical time, how can we expect them follow us the brahmanas (spiritual leaders of the society? If we do not make an environment where in all three lower varnas accept our leadership as the spiritual guides for the society, what good it would be to become a first class brahmanas? If we say, we do not care society, but our selves only, then we really do not have motivation to preach or lead the society. It is sin to lead a society in a wrong direction also at critical times. <<Please desist from this talk of retaliation and killing. It is not the mood of this board. >> Krishna says: kim karma kim karmeti kavayo'pyatra mohitaah (Gita 4.16) Those who have demoniac mood are out all over the world. If Akshardham temple and Raghunath temple destructions cannot open our eyes, then what incident we are waiting for to wake up? When Arjuna said that he will not fight, then Krishna said, "You must." To fail to under the real situation (like Arjuna failed initially) and not fight is adharma. Fortunately we can fight non violently also. That is very kosher fight. But to not fight at all and pour cold water on the victims cannot be justified in my limited buddhi. If there is any confusion in the discussion, I pray the Goswamis to come here and enlighten us. May gurus, sadhus, and shastras help us. Sure, I do not owe this forum nor control it. So, I wll be here till the forum controlelrs allow it and till I feel I could help or learn from here. Jai Sri Krishna!

One may checek this link: http://www.timesclassifieds.com/tc/matrisearch/MatriSearchAd.jsp To find a life partner is risky business. One should never lie and cheat the other. The risk in selecting a person from foreign country is that one could get cheated by some one who just wants to get a green card and marries for that purpose only. Sometimes some one runs sinful business of helping a foreign person get green card by marrying her/him. Such marriges do not last and accumulate bad karma. So, pray Krishna or Durga for good luck and never lie about the self when exchanging personal information. Jai Sri Krishna!

Dear Theist, Jai Sri Krishna! You wrote: <<This is not religion but a group of fanatic suicide/murder cultists.>> Who ever takes time to study Koan and Hadith would say that those who do this and support it are stounch Muslims like wahabis of Saudi Arabia. So, to us it is adharma, to them it is dharma. If any one who has ability to sucessfully preach that non violence is dharma, then they need to preach it first to those who are violent - Bin Laden and party. To perach non violence to the victims of terrorism is to sway/confuse the kshatriyas from doing their duty. Besides, one can fight non violently also. The need is to cool down aggressors, not the victims. Unfortunately they do not understand non violence is virtue. Sure some non muslims also do terrorism, but not at global level, and their Books of religion do not encourage terrorism. But one cannot say this for Muslims. The observation: "Most muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are muslims" tells why it is so, and hardly any muslim country speaks against this terrorism (9/11 etc.). Bin Laden is worshipped as hero in several countries. So, it helps to decide what to do when truth is known well. The Hindu principle of non violence is not absolute. The vedic people are least violent, but if they do not find a way or there is no time, the kshatriya spirit would evoke in many vedic people. Krishna says, "yuddhaaya kirta nicchaya." Jai Sri Krishna!

Dear Theist, Jai Sri Krishna! You wrote: <<This is not religion but a group of fanatic suicide/murder cultists.>> Who ever takes time to study Koan and Hadith would say that those who do this and support it are stounch Muslims like wahabis of Saudi Arabia. So, to us it is adharma, to them it is dharma. If any one who has ability to sucessfully preach that non violence is dharma, then they need to preach it first to those who are violent - Bin Laden and party. To perach non violence to the victims of terrorism is to sway/confuse the kshatriyas from doing their duty. Besides, one can fight non violently also. The need is to cool down aggressors, not the victims. Unfortunately they do not understand non violence is virtue. Sure some non muslims also do terrorism, but not at global level, and their Books of religion do not encourage terrorism. But one cannot say this for Muslims. The observation: "Most muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are muslims" tells why it is so, and hardly any muslim country speaks against this terrorism (9/11 etc.). Bin Laden is worshipped as hero in several countries. So, it helps to decide what to do when truth is known well. The Hindu principle of non violence is not absolute. The vedic people are least violent, but if they do not find a way or there is no time, the kshatriya spirit would evoke in many vedic people. Krishna says, "yuddhaaya kirta nicchaya." Jai Sri Krishna!

Dear ethos Prabhu, My humble response is placed below your lines below. <<Madhav, I see no problem with your reasoning.>> Then good, truth has to be know, even if unpleasant. Remaining ignorent of facts cannot help really. << I am half-way around the world and removed from these passions. I am ignorant about your daily threats.>> If one cannot handle the facts, then one can ignore it and remain happy, but it does not solve the problem. Still one can pray to God and seek His divine help if he cannot do anything, even non violent things. I am not pushing you or any one for anything, but just discussing the point. If you see terrorist acts, they are every where. This says that their target includes all kafirs, their lives, land, and possessions and temples. This matches with what Koran and Hadith teaches. <<I am at a loss to understand this: <> >> So, when you said you understood my reasoning, you really did not mean it. OK. <<I don't believe people have to choose to participate as you say here: "Conflicts cannot be avoided here, especially in this kali yuga. Every one has to join in. One just has to pick which side one wants to be.">> Sure, every one is free to do something or not do anything. Even Krishna says to Arjuna: "yathechcchasi tathaa kuru." One has to act accroding to known truth and best intelligence (rational reasoning) one can get. I am not saying, "What I say is god's word," but I am willing to be convinced if the analysis is faulty. <<And I see this comment as describing capitalism in general: "The barbarisns' straategy is to bleed us slowley to death and disintegration.">> This is mainly in reference to cross border terrorism supported by Pakistan and ISI in India and Kashmir. I just assuemed that those who love Krishna and Prabhupada also love their country, Bharat, the land of the Hindus (vedic people as you are). I have difficulty understanding how it describes capitalism. Jai Sri Krishna!

Dear ethos Prabhu, My humble response is placed below your lines below. <<Madhav, I see no problem with your reasoning.>> Then good, truth has to be know, even if unpleasant. Remaining ignorent of facts cannot help really. << I am half-way around the world and removed from these passions. I am ignorant about your daily threats.>> If one cannot handle the facts, then one can ignore it and remain happy, but it does not solve the problem. Still one can pray to God and seek His divine help if he cannot do anything, even non violent things. I am not pushing you or any one for anything, but just discussing the point. If you see terrorist acts, they are every where. This says that their target includes all kafirs, their lives, land, and possessions and temples. This matches with what Koran and Hadith teaches. <<I am at a loss to understand this: <> >> So, when you said you understood my reasoning, you really did not mean it. OK. <<I don't believe people have to choose to participate as you say here: "Conflicts cannot be avoided here, especially in this kali yuga. Every one has to join in. One just has to pick which side one wants to be.">> Sure, every one is free to do something or not do anything. Even Krishna says to Arjuna: "yathechcchasi tathaa kuru." One has to act accroding to known truth and best intelligence (rational reasoning) one can get. I am not saying, "What I say is god's word," but I am willing to be convinced if the analysis is faulty. <<And I see this comment as describing capitalism in general: "The barbarisns' straategy is to bleed us slowley to death and disintegration.">> This is mainly in reference to cross border terrorism supported by Pakistan and ISI in India and Kashmir. I just assuemed that those who love Krishna and Prabhupada also love their country, Bharat, the land of the Hindus (vedic people as you are). I have difficulty understanding how it describes capitalism. Jai Sri Krishna!