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Kripamoya

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Everything posted by Kripamoya

  1. Puru, those long copy paste refutations get very laborious for those who aren't fans of Narayana Maharaja. Can't you just extrapolate a few select sentences to make your point? The average attention span for forum posts is about 10 seconds tops. Please make your points without all these volumes of essays by Narayana Maharaja. Reduce it down and put spaces between thoughts. that way people might bother to read your posts.
  2. Jagat says: While we are in the psychoanalysis mode, I would have to say that you siddha-pranali types always accuse me of being wild, radical and trouble-maker, I would have to say that you guys who think you know better than Saraswati Thakur, Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada etc. etc are the real wildmen and the most radical, audacious troublemakers of all. I am a choir boy compared to you guys.
  3. When coming to deal with the infinite, you have to leave common sense behind in the plane of common illusion. the subject deals with the inconceivable. common sense is useless there.
  4. Jagat says: Manjaris can peep. It's ok. Bookworms with hairy backs and carnal desires aren't supposed to peep. One thing for sure Jagat, you never cease to amaze me with the extremes you will go to in justifying your intrusions into realms that are beyond the scope of your intellect and reason. You even presume to know better than Saraswati Thakur, Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta, Govinda Maharaja and all the senior disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur. You have got a lot of audacity. Beyond my wildest imagination you have got audacity. I cannot fathom how you could possibly think you are more learned or more devoted than the great Vaishnavas I just mentioned. I imagine that you just write it all off as the license that comes with raganuga bhakti. Amazing...................simply amazing.
  5. I would like to share some very insightful information I found. My understanding is that this is in response to some widescale preaching propaganda that is being made by a preacher who has become a thorn in the side of ISKCON. http://www.mandala.com.au/gurudev/concocted_ideas_of_the_foolish.htm
  6. Puru, I liked you a lot more when you were preaching Sri Isopanisad classes in L.A. back in 1975. What happened to that Puru who was a disciple of Srila Prabhupada? Now, you are just some crazy manjari-bhava geek in Narayana Maharaja's sect. You were glorious preaching Sri Isopanisad. I sat though dozens of your classes. Now, you have really let me down and become almost sahajiya. Something happened somewhere on the way to Krishna. You stopped in one too many temples and now you know TOO MUCH.
  7. Nutshells and nuts are always found together. anyway, I debate and argue with you Jagat, but I don't dislike you. If I saw you personally I would laugh and joke and call you a sahajiya, but I would never want to do you harm and I would offer you all courtesy as a human being.
  8. then when a devotee has learned Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Caitanya Caritamrita and gets too old to preach, then he can set down and go over the books of Bhaktivinode and read these things in the proper place, in context and suitable atmosphere. I don't see that it is something to be dragged out onto the streets of internet forums and showm publicly like a billboard on the roadside. Thats the whole argument that we are trying to make. There is a time and a place for such things, but in public places around bystanders is NOT the place. It should be received in and through the book of Bhaktivinoda - not on the internet in the midst of a debate.
  9. I have to hand it to you Jagat, you pinched off a big loaf this time!
  10. Question: If it's ok to post the "siddhasvarup" of Bhaktivinoda on the internet in front of the whole world, then what would be wrong with posting the "siddhasvarup" of Narayana Maharaja? Why is it ok to post the ekadasa bhava of a deceased Vaishnava, but not OK to post the same of a "living" guru?
  11. you don't know me. maybe you think you know something about me, but really you don't have a clue. My lovely wife thinks I am balanced. that's good enough for me.
  12. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fifty-fifth Chapter of Krsna, "Pradyumna Born to Krsna and Rukmini It is said that Cupid, who is directly part and parcel of Lord Vasudeva and who was formerly burned to ashes by the anger of Lord Siva, took birth in the womb of Rukmini begotten by Krsna. This is Kamadeva, a demigod of the heavenly planets especially capable of inducing lusty desires. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, has many grades of parts and parcels, but the quadruple expansions of Krsna--Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha--are directly in the Visnu category. Kama, or the Cupid demigod, who later on took his birth in the womb of Rukmini, was also named Pradyumna, but he cannot be the Pradyumna of the Visnu category. He belongs to the category of jiva-tattva, but for special power in the category of demigods, he was a part and parcel of the super prowess of Pradyumna. That is the verdict of the Gosvamis. Therefore, when Cupid was burned into ashes by the anger of Lord Siva, he merged into the body of Vasudeva, and in order to get his body again, he was begotten by Lord Krsna Himself; he was directly released from his body in the womb of Rukmini and was born as the son of Krsna, celebrated by the name Pradyumna. Because he was begotten by Lord Krsna directly, his qualities were most similar to those of Krsna. There was a demon of the name Sambara who was destined to be killed by this Pradyumna. The Sambara demon knew of his destiny, and as soon as he learned that Pradyumna was born, he took the shape of a woman and kidnapped the baby from the maternity home less than ten days after his birth. The demon took him and threw him directly into the sea. But, as it is said, "Whoever is protected by Krsna, no one can kill; and whoever is destined to be killed by Krsna, no one can protect." When Pradyumna was thrown into the sea, a big fish immediately swallowed him. Later on this fish was caught by the net of a fisherman, and the fish was later on sold to the Sambara demon. In the kitchen of the demon there was a maidservant whose name was Mayavati. This woman had formerly been the wife of Cupid, and had been called Rati. When the fish was presented to the demon Sambara, it was taken charge of by his cook, who was to make it into a palatable fish preparation. Demons and the Raksasas are accustomed to eat meat, fish and similar non-vegetarian foods. Similarly, other demons, like Ravana, Kamsa and Hiranyakasipu, although born of brahmana and ksatriya fathers, used to take meat and flesh without discrimination. This practice is still prevalent in India, and those who are meat and fish eaters are generally called demons and Raksasas. When the cook was cutting the fish, he found a nice baby within the belly of the fish, and he immediately presented him to the charge of Mayavati, who was an assistant in the kitchen affairs. This woman was surprised to see how such a nice baby could remain within the belly of a fish, and the situation perplexed her. The great sage Narada then appeared and explained to her about the birth of Pradyumna, how the baby had been taken away by Sambara and later on thrown into the sea, and so on. In this way the whole story was disclosed to Mayavati, who had formerly been Rati, the wife of Cupid. Mayavati knew that she had previously been the wife of Cupid; after her husband was burned into ashes by the wrath of Lord Siva, she was always expecting him to come back again in the material form. This woman was engaged for cooking rice and dhal in the kitchen, but when she got this nice baby and understood that he was Cupid, her own husband, she naturally took charge of him and with great affection began to bathe him. Miraculously, the baby very swiftly grew up, and within a very short period he became a very beautiful young man. His eyes were just like the petals of lotus flowers, his arms were very long, down to the knees, and any woman who happened to see him became captivated by his bodily beauty. Mayavati could understand that her former husband, Cupid, born as Pradyumna, had grown into such a nice young man, and she also gradually became captivated and lusty. She was smiling before him with a feminine attractiveness, expressing her desire for sexual unity. He therefore inquired from her, "How is it possible that first of all you were affectionate like a mother, and now you are expressing the symptoms of a lusty woman? What is the reason for such a change?" On hearing this statement from Pradyumna, the woman, Rati, replied, "My dear sir, you are the son of Lord Krsna. Before you were ten days old, you were stolen by the Sambara demon and later on thrown into the water and swallowed up by a fish. In this way you have come under my care, but actually, in your former life as Cupid, I was your wife; therefore, my manifestation of conjugal symptoms is not at all incompatible. Sambara wanted to kill you, and he is endowed with various kinds of mystic powers. Therefore, before he again attempts to kill you, please kill him as soon as possible with your divine power. Since you were stolen by Sambara, your mother, Rukmini-devi, has been in a very grievous condition, like a cuckoo bird who has lost her babies. She is very affectionate toward you, and since you have been taken away from her, she has been living like a cow aggrieved over the loss of its calf." Mayavati had mystic knowledge of supernatural power. Supernatural powers are generally known as maya, and to supersede all such supernatural power there is another supernatural power which is called mahamaya. Mayavati had the knowledge of the mystic power of mahamaya, and she delivered to Pradyumna this specific energetic power in order to defeat the mystic powers of the Sambara demon. Thus being empowered by his wife, Pradyumna immediately went before Sambara and challenged him to fight. Pradyumna began to address him in very strong language, so that his temper might be agitated and he would be moved to fight. At Pradyumna's words, the demon Sambara, being insulted, felt just like a snake feels after being struck by one's leg. A serpent cannot tolerate being kicked by another animal or by a man, and he immediately bites the opponent. Sambara felt the words of Pradyumna as if they were a kick. He immediately took his club in his hand and appeared before Pradyumna to fight. In great anger, he began to beat Pradyumna with his club, just as a thunderbolt beats a mountain. The demon was also groaning and making a noise like a thundering cloud. Pradyumna protected himself with his own club, and eventually he struck the demon very severely. In this way, the fighting between Sambarasura and Pradyumna began very seriously. But Sambarasura knew the art of mystic powers and could raise himself in the sky and fight from outer space. There is another demon of the name Maya, and Sambarasura learned many mystic powers from him. He thus raised himself high in the sky and began to threw various types of nuclear weapons at the body of Pradyumna. In order to combat the mystic powers of Sambarasura, Pradyumna remembered another mystic power, known as mahavidya, which was different from the black mystic power. The mahavidya mystic power is based on the quality of goodness. Understanding that his enemy was formidable, Sambara took assistance from various kinds of demoniac mystic powers belonging to the Guhyakas, the Gandharvas, the Pisacas, the snakes and the Raksasas. But although the demon exhibited his mystic powers and took shelter of supernatural strength, Pradyumna was able to counteract his strength and powers by the superior power of mahavidya. When Sambarasura was defeated in every respect, Pradyumna then took his sharpened sword and immediately cut off the demon's head, which was decorated with a helmet and with valuable jewels. When Pradyumna thus killed the demon, all the demigods in the higher planetary systems began to showered flowers on him. Pradyumna's wife, Mayavati, could travel in outer space, and therefore they directly reached his father's capital, Dvaraka, by the airways. They passed above the palace of Lord Krsna and began to come down as a cloud comes down with lightning. The inner section of a palace is known as antahpura (private apartments). Pradyumna and Mayavati could see that there were many women there, and they sat down among them. When the women saw Pradyumna, dressed in bluish garments, with very long arms, curling hair, beautiful eyes, a smiling reddish face, jewelry and ornaments, they first of all could not recognize him as Pradyumna, a personality different from Krsna. They all felt themselves to be very much blessed by the sudden presence of Krsna, and they wanted to hide in a different corner of the palace. When the women saw, however, that all the characteristics of Krsna were not present in the personality of Pradyumna, out of curiosity they came back again to see him and his wife, Mayavati. All of them were conjecturing as to who he was, for he was so beautiful. Among the women was Rukmini-devi, who was equally beautiful, with her lotus-like eyes. Seeing Pradyumna, she naturally remembered her own son, and milk began to flow from her breast out of motherly affection. She then began to wonder, "Who is this beautiful young boy? He appears to be the most beautiful person. Who is the fortunate young woman able to give birth to this nice boy in her womb and become his mother? And who is that young woman who has accompanied him? How have they met? Remembering my own son, who was stolen even from the maternity home, I can only guess that if he is living somewhere, he might have grown by this time to be like this boy." Simply by intuition, Rukmini could understand that Pradyumna was her own lost son. She could also observe that Pradyumna resembled Lord Krsna in every respect. She was struck with wonder as to how he acquired all the symptoms of Krsna. She therefore began to think more confidently that the boy must be her own grown-up son because she felt much affection for him, and, as an auspicious sign, her left arm was trembling. At that very moment, Lord Krsna, along with His father and mother, Devaki and Vasudeva, appeared on the scene. Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, could understand everything, yet in that situation He remained silent. However, by the desire of Lord Sri Krsna, the great sage Narada also appeared on the scene, and he began to disclose all the incidents--how Pradyumna had been stolen from the maternity home and how he had grown up and had come there with his wife Mayavati, who formerly had been Rati, the wife of Cupid. When everyone was informed of the mysterious disappearance of Pradyumna and how he had grown up, they all became struck with wonder because they had gotten back their dead son after they were almost hopeless of his return. When they understood that it was Pradyumna who was present, they began to receive him with great delight. One after another, all of the members of the family--Devaki, Vasudeva, Lord Sri Krsna, Lord Balarama, and Rukmini and all the women of the family--began to embrace both Pradyumna and his wife Mayavati. When the news of Pradyumna's return was spread all over the city of Dvaraka, all the astonished citizens began to come with great anxiety to see the lost Pradyumna. They began to say, "The dead son has come back. What can be more pleasing than this?" Srila Sukadeva Gosvami has explained that, in the beginning, all the residents of the palace, who were all mothers and stepmothers of Pradyumna, mistook him to be Krsna and were all bashful, infected by the desire for conjugal love. The explanation is that Pradyumna's personal appearance is exactly like Krsna's, and he was factually Cupid himself. There was no cause of astonishment, therefore, when the mothers of Pradyumna and other women mistook him in that way. It is clear from the statement that Pradyumna's bodily characteristics were so similar to Krsna's that he was mistaken to be Krsna even by his mother. Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fifty-fifth Chapter of Krsna, "Pradyumna Born to Krsna and Rukmini."
  13. Kamadeva (Cupid) took birth in Krishna-lila as Pradyumna who was the son of Rukmini. Padyumna had features that exactly resembled his Dad - Krishna.
  14. Neither Srila Prabhupada or Sridhar Maharaja ever made these kinds of claims in front of the international Krishna consciousness movement.
  15. So, Bhakti Vikasa Swami is now attemtping to make widescale public propaganda about something that was supposed to be top secret and confidential and had heretofore never been explained in this way by any follower of Siddhanta Saraswati? See, this is where the whole thing get's spoiled and turned into a circus.
  16. Most of Mahaprabhu's devotees were householders who were all romantically involved with their wives. A very small percentage of them were ascetics without any romance in their lives. To base the movement on the standards of the most extreme ascetics who made up a small percentage of gaudiya Vaishnavism IS NOT a practical approach. There is a time and place for detachment and rununciation. Trying to make it the standard for all devotees at all times is ridiculous.
  17. Yes - in a perfect world with a perfect society of perfect people. are you perfect? If you are, then you are the first perfect human being in history.
  18. Says who? Says YOU! However, if Bhaktivinode Thakur had not been romantically involved with his wife, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami would never have been born. If Gaura Mohan De had not been romantically involved with his wife, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami would never have been born. Don't blaspheme romance. without romance the world would be vacant of human beings.
  19. Sridhar Maharaja wanted us to think like this...
  20. Well Madhava, if you can seperate yourself from Jagat's tantric conceptions, then that is good. Trying to explain away sense gratification as some kind of raganuga sadhana is as bogus as it can get. If you don't practice or to that kind of nonsense, then that is good. You know I have love-hate feelings about you. I know you are a very bright boy and a very devout devotee. I don't pretend to be better than you. I argue and debate concepts and principles. Claiming to be personally better than anyone on this forum is not what I am saying. I am not the best by a long shot. I'll humbly take my position at the bottom of the heap.
  21. so, you guys are saying that Sridhar Maharaja didn't read Ujjvala-nilamani and Govinda-lilamrita, but he got siddha-pranali from Saraswati Thakur? Saraswati Thakur did not allow his disciples to read Ujjvala-nilamani, but he gave them siddha-pranali? The problem is that too many devotees are accepting the poison being administered by Narayana Maharaja as being representative of Srila Saraswati Goswami. it is NOT!
  22. All I know is what Sridhar Maharaja wanted us to know. I think that says the same thing I have been saying.
  23. Good job Madhava! Let's break down the flood gates and turn the whole movement into a western version of the same kind of sahajiyaism that sprang out of this "raganuga" sadhana that was meant for the most advanced and rigid practitioners of a bygone era. It's a sad day when ISKCON sannyasis participate in the effort to inject the seeds of sahajiyaism into the movement.
  24. Because the fact of the matter is that all these so-called "siddha-pranali" people do advocate that householders are supposed to think that the husband represents Krishna and the wife represents Radha. Thus, they teach that you can be Krishna conscious while having sex with your wife and it will advance your bhakti by having sex with your wife. That's where the sahajiya principle kicks-in with these "traditionalists". they would be better off if they just admitted to themselves while they were having sex with their wives that they are in maya and that they need to get out of maya. Mahaprabhu refused to let Jagadananda pandit to associate with the Brajabasis, because he did not want him to get polluted with this kind of thinking.
  25. Most of us don't argue that there is some validity to the raganuga-sadhana process. What we argue is that the process can get into the hands of unfit and unqualified persons who will then pollute the whole Krishna consciousness movement with the same kind of sahajiya nonsense that has been passed off as "traditional" Gaudiya practice for hundreds of years. We can see that practically, that immature and unfit persons are on the internet trying to make the most esoteric and exotic aspects of Gaudiya sadhana into a subject for the streets and the marketplace of imitation gurus. Maybe one out of a million fakers who get "siddha-pranali" ever perfect that practice. these rest of them are just dreamers and schemers.
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