Kripamoya

she be a pretty smart cookie then.

Yes, I know. Narayan Maharaja called Sridhar Maharaja a fish-seller and a coal merchant, because the government forced him to allow fishing from his pond and because Govinda Maharaja made a little bit of money by selling coal to the locals. That is a long way from the kinds of scams and schemes that I am talking about in the name of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in America.

Jesus preached the fatherhood of Godhead. The Gaudiya view of God is that he is the consort-lover. The fatherhood of Godhead is considered a very crude conception of Godhead by the Gaudiyas. God as father is simply the supplier and the maintainer. The erotic consorthood of Godhead is the most exotic conception of Godhead that there can be. In the highest realm of spirituality, the mundane conception of morality is completely non-existant and the highest manifestation of the erotic principle predominates. Jesus might be the way, the truth and the light of the fatherhood of Godhead, but the Gaudiya faith is not interested in the fatherhood of Godhead. God as lover is much more fun than God as father. That is the naked truth.

You seem to be trying to say that Prabhupada approved of scams. Srila Prabhupada did NOT approve of any scams or schemes. His program was to go out to the streets and support the temples by selling books. all these scams and schemes were introduced by ambitious leaders who wanted to impress Prabhupada by giving him lots of money. These guys were pulling scams and schemes and sending the money to Prabhupada. Like Guru-kripa in Japan? When Prabhupada finally found out how he was getting the money there and causing ISKCON to get banned from Japan, Prabhupada told Guru-kripa to his face "you will never amount to anything after what you did in Japan".

I always have a problem reading these long paragraphs without any break. The words just all run together and I have to strain my eyes to read. that is why I always put a lot of breaks in my post, so that the words don't run together and discourage people from reading them. What makes good writing according to modern standards in books does not work very good with forums in my opinion. I have heard some devotees like Raga take issue with this style of breaking up paragraphs in posts, but I think it makes them a whole lot easier to read than these paragraphs that just run on and on.

During my ISKCON days I liked to travel around to different temples. When I felt like I was falling into rut, I wanted to travel. Many times I simply walked out of a temple with no money and hitch-hiked hundreds of miles to get to another temple. I did not wear my devotee clothes on the road, but I always ended up telling them that I was a Hare Krishna devotee and they always wanted to hear about it. I have had people feed me, give me money for food and even take me home for the night and take me back to the highway the next day. Actually, travelling alone and depending on Krishna is really a lot of fun. Any time I was hungry on the road I just mentioned to someone that I haven't eaten today and they would always give me a dollar or two for some food. It's not hard to survive as a beggar. The beggar lifestyle is actually a very exciting adventure - depending on Krishna every day. These scams and schemes lifestyles are actually miserable and full of stress.

But, please don't take Bhaktivinode's metaphorical concepts and use that to justify t-shirt booths at National Parks and selling karmi records and CDs to artificially build temples and facilities through a process other than what one can accomplish through preaching alone. Then we have those guys with huge bank balances that they acquired through using some Gaudiya vaishnava society as a front for making a lot of personal profit without paying any kind of tax on it. These scams and schemes have been going on for a long time, but it's a bad way to build up a preaching mission. Rejecting the schemes and scams and depending totally on Krishna would have resulted in a much greater accomplishment in the preaching field than a compromising, half-hearted money making enterprise of scams and schemes.

Did Narayana Maharaja tell this story to someone? I guess Satsvarupa missed that part of Prabhupada's life in his biography? With all the research that Satsvarupa did and he never heard that story from anyone before, it seems a little odd that in 2006 some bizarre story like this surfaces on the world wide web.

they were probably referring to one of his useless and fallen disciples........................ me!

I hope this is just bad phrasing and not an actual concept. I don't like to hear of Krishna consciousness being referred to as a "product". A product is something sold for commercial consumption for the sake of making financial gain. Personally, I would have liked to have seen more poverty, simplicty and dependence on Krishna by certain "gurus" around the movement. I don't like to see commercial enterprises, businesses and money making schemes being conducted by "sannyasis". I am looking for the REAL beggar type mendicants, who just depend on Krishna without having to conduct businesses and commercial enterprises. It can be done. I used travel around the movement from one temple to another without money and hitch-hiking around the country. I met lots of nice people and did a lot of preaching. This has always been my idea of what sannyasa should be. Big money, business and profit-making schemes seem to go ill with the concept of total dependence on Krishna. Too much comfort and facility will block self-realization.

Realized devotees of the highest level see that everyone BUT HIMSELF are serving Krishna. That is why the self-realized souls like Srila Prabhupada have to come down and imitate the middle class devotee in order to preach. When one is in the highest level of realization he feels that every living entity but himself is serving Krishna nicely. Ordinary devotees don't see it that way, so they are inclined to preach. In reality though, the vision of the Maha-Bhagavat is actually the correct vision; all but my myself are serving Krishna. To say that this devotee or that devotee has fallen and gone to hell, is not the vision of a Maha-Bhagavat. The benefits of even a moment's association with a pure devotee are incalculable.To say that devotees go to hell when they can't maintain the highest standard is very wrong. No high-grade devotee would ever insult a fallen devotee and discourage him with such harsh words.

Can you give us an example of Prabhupada "bragging"? Or, are you making accusations from the platform of false ASSumptions?

75-09-02.Omk Letter: Omkara Please accept my blessings. I have seen your letter dated August 17, 1975 and have noted the contents. I never said there should be no more marriage. By all means legally you can get married. How can I object? They misunderstand me. Unless it is there from me in writing, there are so many things that "Prabhupada said."

Let's face it fellows, we are dealing with achintya-shakti. We are on an eternal quest (nitya-baddha jiva) to make the inconceivable fit within our tiny minds and brains. It's a hopeless adventure into absurdity. As soon as we think we have got it figured out, we have totally disqualified ourselves from any further enlightenment.

Krishna is Yogesvara...... Master of Mysticism! Radha is the internal pleasure ecstacy of the Supreme Mystic Krishna.

It would seem that to accept this eka-dasa bhava or even this "manjari-bhava" mood, one would have to genuinely feel some sort of conjugal attraction to Krishna. I have to admit, I accept Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but I don't have a clue as to what mood of love I will eventually find for him.

It seems that you are not alone in your diminshing faith in Srila Prabhupada. It appears than many devotees who get involved with Narayana Maharaja start to lose their faith for Srila Prabhupada. Devotees like Jadarani dasi even let Narayana Maharaja change her name from the name Srila Prabhupada gave her at initiation. That is why I don't read most of the stuff, these long copy/paste efforts of Puru, because I don't want to hear so much from Narayana Maharaja that it starts to errode my faith like it is doing to you and so many others. Like JN das has said already, you should not take these "Prabhupada said" quotes very seriously unless you can find it in the books. If you want to start looking for some faults in Srila Prabhupada, then you can find these things that will encourage you to minimize the status of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada does not confirm what you have quoted in his books. In the books, Srila Prabhupada says that the soul can never fall from Vaikuntha of Goloka.

A see quite a few devotees these days making open propaganda that they have some feelings of "manjari-bhava". These devotees are preaching and posting in a way as to convey the idea that they have love for Krishna in "manjari-bhava". Myself, I have to confess that I really don't know for sure in what mood or rasa I am attracted to Krishna. For me, it has always been a faith based upon the power of the shastra. Srila Prabhupada's books have always been especially relishable and juicy to me. Still, I don't know in which way I am being drawn to love Krishna. I can say that I do not feel the kind of conjugal attraction to Krishna that many devotees are indicating they have. Neither can I say that I have an attraction for Krishna in friendly rasa or the paternal rasa. I just don't know. I do know from shastra that the gopis are the topmost devotees and that the Gaudiya acharyas promote them and their love for Krishna as the topmost. I understand that intellectually and I accept that. I do not have a conjugal feeling for Krishna. Is there anyone on this forum that can honestly say that they have conjugal feelings for Krishna?

there is only ONE infinite. therefore, you cannot combine infinity with infinity. One infinite in infinite forms. there is no other infinite than Krishna - the One and only infinite.

Tripurari Maharaja is a star in the sky of the Hare Krishna movement. Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja are the Sun and the Moon. Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja are the Rupa and Raghunatha. Nitai-Gaurahari.................

there is no such thing. If there is, then please show us where shastra has given such a formula?

Very nice! Please tell me more about how Tripurari Maharaja is making headway to bring Sridhar Maharaja BACK into ISKCON. Considering that Sridhar Maharaja has been gone since 1988, I would find it quite amazing that Tripurari Maharaja could bring him into ISKCON as a spiritual master.

Nobody can prove on a forum that they FOLLOW everything strictly. It's easy to pose and fake-it on a forum. Making claims on a forum is essentially foolish. I don't make any claims about anything. I discuss and debate things on the platform of thought and ideas. Sridhar Maharaja said to judge a person by their ideals. I judge people on their ideals, not on some pose or profile that they present for any number of untold reasons. I don't care about the small things. I judge people on the ideal that they cherish. Eventually, in this lifetime or the next, they will realize their ideals. It's about ideals - not posing or posturing for prestige or position.

You have to be a master to write a masterpiece. I am sure I could find some discrepancies in the books of Tripurari Maharaja, if I read the books. I love Tripurari Maharaja, but I see him as a Godbrother and not a siksha guru.(I don't read his books) I remember back to the days when Maharaja was still trying to get his guruship in ISKCON and I was hoping that he would stop that and take shelter of Sridhar Maharaja. He came to Prabhupada before me, but I came to Sridhar Maharaja before him. He was trying to get his GBC rubber stamp (guru) in ISKCON, but they wouldn't give it to him. I was very glad when he got turned away by ISKCON and was forced to seek shelter of Sridhar Maharaja. He is my Godbrother, not my guru. It was his best buddy Kalki das that kicked me out of the Chicago temple for listening to the tapes of Sridhar Maharaja. They put me out on the streets without a dollar to my name.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Schizophrenia is many times and most usually caused by the toxic condition of the body, due to constipation, excess sugar intake, lake of bathing and other problems that cause the body to become toxic. I read some years ago that some doctors and scientists found that during chronic constipation that the body will produce a toxic chemical that is very akin to PCP (Phencyclidine).(angel dust) The body produces this powerful and dangerous chemical in very small trace amounts during toxic conditions. However, it only takes about one drop of Phencyclidine to induce horrific hallucinations, hearing of voices and madness. Though most religions, including the Hindu religion, like to pass off madness as being possessed by spirits or ghosts, I have to disagree with that old superstition. Most madness and schizophrenia has a scientific explanation. It is caused by a toxic condition of the body effecting the brain. Back in the early seventies, I tried the chemical PCP a couple of times. It was a living nightmare. I have never had such horrific terror in my life. I saw others who took larger does than me become vegetables for about 8 hours. I know the power of dangerous drugs. Schizophrenia is caused by a poisoning of the body due to unclean habits, constipation and eating the wrong things. One small drop of PCP produced in the body from a toxic condition, that can have many environmental influences, is enough to create intense hallucinations, hearing of voices and the madness that comes with that. It's not really about superstition and religious beliefs. It's about cleanliness, hygiene and environmental poisons that build up in the body without such. I had to care for two guys at a temple one time who had overdosed on PCP. These guys were mad and seeing all kinds of ghosts and hearing voices. It was an amazing experience. They just came in off the street seeking help with the PCP nightmare and I cared for them till they came down.