vrajavasi

Radhe Krishna, a very nice message dear western guest. Yes, in every society we have people who are good and people who are bad. But when the element of bad becomes so strong and the element of good becomes so submissive does horrors like holocost takes place. If you have your share of holocost, this region had its share of partition of India. streotyping of people is not correct. humility, benevolence, compassion, love, affection - these noble ideals - whereever they are, they are not to be nurtured and bossted. There were great saints in India who were devotees of lord krishna cutting across caste, colour and even religious barriers. What is important is noble ideals. With that the entire human race progress without that the entire human race perish. Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna, Bhavadasa, Radhe Krishna, From whatever philosophy you look at brahmam, it is omnpresent. Never ever think that to refer brahmam by "it" indicates disrespect. never think that people while referrng brahmam by "it" mean any disrespect for brahmam. Poornamidaha poornamidam poornath poornamudachyate By referring it in any way you can not add reverence to it or reduce any reverence to it. Yes I was telling that it is omnipresent. As per visishtadvaita siddhantha every shabdha in amarakosha ultimately refers to Lord vishnu. That includes the word "IT" also. There can not be a word which could be away from the supreme. No philosophy for that matter needs any promotion. These philosophies were not as such propogated by any ordinary person but by liberated souls. Not only the three basic philosophy but any well established philosophy for that matter was enunciated by well intended noble souls which do not require any promotion. I am from a smartha family which adhers to the philosophy of advaita. I think you were very particular about the source of my knowledge. This is my source. ok. well. to be an advaitin does not necessarily mean that one can not be a bhaktha. There are shiva bhakthas, vishnu bhakthas, devi bhakthas, skanda bhakthas, ganesha bhakthas in this tradition. And in the same family there can be people doing different upaasana with indepth dedication by sharing each others experience. Me an ardent devotee of Radha krishna yugalam. Don't know how many times I have passionately recited Shrimad Bhagawatham and how many times I have heard kaalakshepam of Shrimad Bhagawatham from noble souls belonging to all the three sampradaayaas. I have read chaitanya charitaavali of prabhudatta brahmachaari many times and gone through many of the works of all the six goswamy sishyaas of chaitanya mahaprabhu. And to be an advaitin necessarily mean that we accept the formless brahmam. But this does not come in the way of my krishna bhakthi. While reciting Shrimad Bhagawatham or engaging in krishna nama sankeerthanam, we never think of the adviteeya vasthu which is formless. There are adhikaari for each and every thing. Everybody can not become Shri Ramana maharishi or Seshadri Swami or Shukaacharya or Jadabharatha by a fraction of a second. It is a process. While in Krishna Bhakthi, we never ever think of anything else. Only Radhakrishna yugalam. Even we do not have sampradaayaa or language barriers in pursuit of our krishna bhakthi. we read and sing compositions of Nivruthi, namadeva, sopana, mukthabai, Gnyana deva, eknath, thukaram, sena nai of Vaarakari sampradaaya, The ashtadaasa of Maadhva sampradaaya, Divya prabandha of Shri vaishnava sampradaaya, Thyagaraja, annamaacharya, bhadhraachala ramadaasa in telugu all belonging to different sampradaayas, Naarayana bhattadhri, poondaanam, bilvamangala, manjula and many other bhakthas who were devoted to Guruvayoorappan the baby krishna of guruvayoor in kerala, the char sampradaaya of vraja and compositions of ashtachaap kavi of vraja, kabir, kamal, rahim, raskan, latif - above all the Geetha govinda of Jayadeva, Laghu Bhagavatha kathamrtham, Brhad Bhagawatha Kathamrutham, Bhakthi rasaamrutha sindhu, Radha rasa sudhanidhi, Hari Bhakthi vilaasam, Gopala Champu and many granthaas of the six goswami sishyaas of chaitany mahaprabhu - everything is nectar to us. By going through all these compositions we never think that we would be away from advaita or while engaging in the bhakthi we never think of adviteeya brahma vasthu. From all the above mentioned personalities what we try to inculcate is their aatmagunaas. By philosophy you can become knowledgeable. that may help you to participate in debates and win them but that would not help you to dwell in radha krishna bhakthi. I am not meaning you or x or y or z. At every spectrum there are people who are very much interested in philosophy rather than practice. This too I am not mentioning as a dosha. It is a ruchi which is again god given. Those who have ruchi for philosophy would have ruchi for that irrespective of the philosophy they adher to. Those who have ruchi for radha krishna bhakthi have ruchi for that. The former would search for his ruchi and the latter his. As far as worship of brahma is concerned, Smartha, Shrivaishnava and maadhva sampradaayis worship brahma - or you can say pay obeisances to brahma in the performance of their nithya naimithika karmas. ok Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna, Garuda puraanam is read during the ten days of mourning after the death of a person. the yathra of the dead person to the other lokaas in a different sharira is explained. bhakthas reach the abode of their devatha after the death. but those who have committed punya and paapa go to swarga and narakaa to enjoy for punyaa and suffer for paapaa respectively. The yathra to yama loka is described in garuda puraana. the jeeva is given a sharira called yaathanaa sharira - that is a body for suffering. in this body which is meant for suffering, until the punisher the yama bhataas consider that the punishment is over, there is no death and only suffering. Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Bhava dasa, Radhe Krishna, <o:p></o:p> You are not getting clarity since you are mixing two different issues. <o:p></o:p> One issue is oneness of brahmam. Another issue is differences in the way brahmam is perceived by different schools of philosophy. <o:p></o:p> If you see the issues without tainted glasses in a way as the philosophies were propagated by the achaaryaas of the respectve philosophies rather than from the view points of interpretation of philosophers from a counter school, you can better appreciate the facts as they are. <o:p></o:p> Since I am basically preoccupied in the study of Shrimad Bhagawatham, I can not and do not wish to go to the depth of different philosophies. <o:p></o:p> But basic understanding of the philosophies would surely reveal the fact that god is one and only one. <o:p></o:p> Advaita, visishtadvaita and davita agree in one aspect that brahmam is one and only one and it is sath, chith and ananda. Then what is the difference. It is in its form. <o:p></o:p> Advaita says it is nirguna and niraakara <o:p></o:p> Visishtadvaita and dvaita says Shri Vishnu is the brahmam and he is an emobiment of anantha kalyaana gunaas. <o:p></o:p> Visishtadvaita is explained also as visesha advaita. Meaning here also they agree to oneness of brahmam but define it with anantha kalyaana gunaas. <o:p></o:p> The jeeva would attain saalokya, saameepya, saaroopya and saayujya according to his maturity of bhakthi. It is said that a shrivaishnava would get the same roopa of Mahavishnu with all his prabhava with a difference of two things. Lakshmipathithvam and srushti karthruthvam. <o:p></o:p> In dvaita the difference between brahmam and jeeva is very much pronounced. Even Mahalakshmi is placed one among the jeevakotis. <o:p></o:p> From the above, you can appreciate that the tatva which is defined and referred as brahmam is supreme and it is one and only one in all the three basic schools of philosophy. <o:p></o:p> God in English language refers to the one who is supreme. <o:p></o:p> He is singular and can not be plural. So whenever God has to be referred in Sanaathana Dharma it should be in singular if it is according to scriptures. <o:p></o:p> The one aspect which was propagated in advaita whch irates the people belonging to Visishtadvaita and dvaita is about the position of Lord Vishnu. In Advaita Lord Vishnu is also counted one among the devatha ganam. It means he is also included in the circle of perishability. This view point was put forth by shankaraacharya not as a general argument but with shroutha smartha pramaanas - This would be appreciated by people who go through the shankara bhashya on prasthaanathraya although from the same shroutha smartha pramaanas the issue has been countered by acharyaas and vidwans dispassionately. <o:p></o:p> Advaita is what is propagated and understood by his followers in the same way visishtdvaita is what is propagated and understood by the followers of Raamanujacharya. <o:p></o:p> A person who does not like these philosophies fall in two categories. <o:p></o:p> One who does not agree with the philosophy and put forth counter arguments from shruthis and smruthis in a dispassionate way keeping both the philosophies as it is as they were propogated by the achaaryas. <o:p></o:p> Another category is of those people whose dislike of philosophy motivates them in such a manner to altogether change the contents of the philosophy itself according to their perceptions and altogether give a different name to the philosophy according to their perceptions. <o:p></o:p> The first category of person is a vidwan who study both the philosophies thoroughly and have his strong conviction in one of the philosophies. <o:p></o:p> The second category of person is half educated personality whose prime concern is to remain in limelight and in his heart of hearts he has conviction for none of the philosophies. <o:p></o:p> This category of people would be found in every spectrum. Those who do not like advaita rather than putting putting forth shroutha smartha pramaanaas name it mayaavaada or atheist. Similar nature of people are there in the spectrum of advaita also. These people refer bhakthi as “Emotional weakness”, This misinterpretation is also one which emanates from dislike and without any basis. Because Bhakthi is a phenomenon which is beyond emotions. Bhakthi starts from a point where emotions end and it is a phenomenon which is not perceived through paancha bhoutika sharira. <o:p></o:p> But the beauty of nature is people who are sincerely adhering to their own philosophies would continue to do so and progress in their respective spectrums and people who make baseless arguments would also continue to do so. <o:p></o:p> Then what a sincere person should do. To understand and appreciate any philosophy go to its source and understand the things impassionately. <o:p></o:p> Above, whatever I have said about advaita almost everybody would agree with that. But if whatever I have said about visishtadvaita or dvaita is wrong I need correction to my knowledge and I always welcome that if I get that correction if it is from those who are followers of these achaaryas . <o:p></o:p> Radhe Krishna <o:p></o:p>

Radhe Krishna, I was referring to Advaita, visishtadvaita and dvaita as they were preached by the siddhantha pravarthakas. However let me explain the things in detail in a next post Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, It depends as to how you view the system. In varna by birth system, there are 4 varnas and people who are not borne in any four of the varnas are outside the varna system. But that never never mean that they are far from god. Rahim, raskan, kabir, latif did not aspire for fitting into one of the varnas. They aspired for only god. But still they were realised souls. They attained the lotus feet of god which was not attaied by many of those who were born as brahmins or kshathriyas or vaishyas or shudras. God does not see the varna of any soul for liberating him. He sees only the karma of the soul. That is what is explained in shruthi and smruthis. A soul born in brahmana varna becomes a vraathya by being unmindful of duties ordained to him by god would never never be dearer to god and he would be subject to punishments prescribed by god in this regard. A soul who does not belong to any varna but love god can surely be liberated and become more knowledgeable than those who are born as brahmins if he sincerely go through the religious literature for the study of which even many life times would be insufficient. This is so the case if and if at all a foreigner considers varna by birth system. If he a person does not believe in a varna by birth system, Still there are many many avenues for getting acquainted and practice sanaathana dharma. In the current age, a vast majority of people well intended people who do not believe in varna by birth system and there are many organisations which are noble and well intended and do not believe varna by birth system. They can very well take care of these souls. And above all varna sangraha is an event predicted and foreseen by sages which is supposed to happen in kaliyuga. That being the case whatever things are happening are happening as they are predestined by god and every god loving person should steadfastly engaged in god loving. hatred is an avaguna which would take away a soul from lord. whether a person believes in varna by birth system or not - if at all any one is filled with hatred - he is sure away from god irrespective of any religion he belongs. let god bless the world with peace Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, Chant "Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare" In the age of Kali, there is nothing more effective than this. for chanting Hare krishna, you need not bather about even pronounciation mistakes. God loves the fact that you need him. He does not bather about pronounciation mistake in this regard with "Hare Rama ... .... Hare Krishna" Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, At the point, a discussion turns into debate or argument - leave the place at the point because when a discussion turns into argument - neither party is in position to even to consider the facts of the other party. At this stage, give at utmost care to your studies. discuss about religion with your well wishers and elders in your family and your gurumaharaj. not with any and everyone. Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna, Perfectly ok if it is about kamya bhakthi. Shri prahlada is however a bit harsh on kamya bhakthas. In prahlada sthuthi in Shrimad Bhagawatham which comes after Nrusimha Aavirbhavam, prahlada says about kamyaartha bhakthaas as "Savai vanik" - meaning they are like businessmen who invest something expecting something in return. similarly kamyaartha bhakthas are those who expect something in return from Bhagawan for their bhakthi. Even among many Devathas, whose status you are raising to that of god by referring them as demigods, there are nishkamya bhakthas. But to totally brand devathanthara bhakthaas as kamya bhakthas is either arrogance or ignorance. There are lots of devathanthara bhakthaas who do nishkamyabhakthi of their devatha. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, Radhe Krishna, No way - that conclusion of three philosophies is voidism - see even within the quote at #23 above, it is clearly written that all the three basic philosophies teach that God is one and only one although there are differences as to its form. The one thing that I do which may be of common interest is that I recite Shrimad Bhagawatham and try to inculcate aatmagunaas filled in the life of the six goswami sishyaas of chaitanya mahaprabhu and great saints like kabir, rahim, raskaan, latif, eknaath, thukaraam, raidas. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, Radhe krishna to all Shri vaishnava devotees. I am a smartha doing nithya paaraayana of Shrimad Bhagawatham. Shri pattangi, you have given your explanations in an eloquant and exceptional way explaining spiritual status of non brahmins ( even those who belong to mathanthara) and what duties are not supposedly meant for them. But what is destined by Bhagawan in kaliyuga - that things go berserk - would have to happen . -- it is only the question of time - This is only prathama paada of kali yuga - and how things are so fastly happening this way - only scholars who are interested in sanaathana dharma can shed light on this aspect. Till then I feel we should atleast rectify ourselves - do our nithya naimithika karmas - as ordained by god dutifully. I remember what is once said by Mukkur Shri Lakshmi Nrusimhachariyar : When asked - inspite of the fact that prakruthis as cruel as hiranyakashipu are loitering freely in the current age, why Bhagawan is not coming for sadhu rakshanam? to which he said - Although there are many people like hiranyakashipu in the current age, there is not a single soul like prahlada. Once there is a soul like prahlada - nrusimha would appear tathkshanam. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, If one says Varna system by birth it never means that people who are not born in the category of dvija - viz., Brahmana, kshathriya and vaishya - are left in the lurch. The system completely take care of their spiritual needs and it is seen that they attain equal knowledge about god - may be knowledge better than than of the dvijas - in those areas they obtain knowledge leaving certain duties which are perhaps to be performed by those born as brahmins. The excerpt given below is from vaishnava thread penned by shri pattangi. carefully go through the contents and judge for yourself Sri Thirukoviloor Jeeyar Swami, has many thousands of sishyas most of them are for lack of a better word, backward castes and very poor. Many of them do not have ample and good housing, clothes or food, but know the 4000, Mummukshuppadi (rahsya grantham), SriVachanaBhooshanam etc by heart and have learnt the meanings over and over again. He says, ==="Our sishyas even though they know the arulicheyal material better than many Brahmins, they never try to boast their knowledge and seem to cry in the anubhavams. These tears of anubhavams are all the joy a devotee needs. None of them ever came to me asking, "let me be the next Jeeyar or the Archaka". This is because they are in the anubhavam and they are in the sampradaya. They know the material and they know that only one with upaveetham can do all Veidhika duties attached to the duties of the Madadhipathi. " ==== PS: Though usually Jeeyars (yathis) cannot do AgniKariyam, they still have other duties, and the agni kariyam done before any samashreyanam is done under the supervision of the Jeeyar. => Non-Brahmin scholars in todays world: ================================ There are many non-brahmin scholars and upanyasakas and they are accepted by "brahmin" srivaishnavas as well. D.A Joeseph Bhagawathar: ===================== He is extremely popular and has received the title "Vaishanva Sudaraazhi" and is writing an article series in the current Geethacharyan (a magazine by Dr. MA Venkartakrishana - Brahmin run magazine) he has many books, upanyasams and following. Sri Purushottama Naidu Swamin: The most popular tamil translation of Eedu, (the Vykhyanam for 4000) that many Brahmins carry is of Sri Purushottama Naidu. Many brahmins refer to him and owe allegance to his work. Sri Pandithia Krisha Veni Ammiar (a woman): Very famous for Mumukshuppadi Vyakhyanam and books. Sri SubbuReddiar Swamin, Nathalla Sampath Chettiar and many many others. I can give you many examples of current day scholars, upanyasakas and writers who are non-brahmins and others who came from other faith and still carry their original faith name, sri Ali Swamin, Joeseph Swamin etc. There are Brahmins who sit in their upanyasa goshti and enjoy the divine nectar. In Sri Vaishnavam all are equal. In Veidhikam, all are still equal in the eyes of the LORD and in their capacity to love him and to attain moksha, but only certain people can perform certain tasks. Those are the rules in Veidhikam. Allow me to elaborate: => A personal question for all to think and Answer. ================================================== ==== Knowing well that tri-kala sandhya is the basic requirement to even qualify to perform Veidhika Karyams like homam, yagyams etc. ** Would a non-brahmin devotee with faith call for a non-brahmin preist to perform any Veidhika agni-karyam in his home for his home function. ** Would a brahmin devotee with faith call for a non-brahmin preist to perform any Veidhika agni-karyam in his home for his home function. If the answer to both is "NO", then think why would anyone say YES do this to the Temple (esp. Dhivya Desams) ================================================== ==================== True devotees know and respect these rules. If service to Lord in the temple is the intention, there are many ways to serve. There are many devotee non-brahmins engaged in temple service and they never come forward seeking the any Vaidhika service that specifically needs brahmins. I do agree that there are many brahmin priests who are not following the rules, and that needs to be addressed and specified rules need to be implemented. The same is the case with other branches of sanaathana dharma, Shri A.V.Krishnaswamy reddiars commentary on Soundarya lahari is referred by many brahmin scholars because of his easy way of explaining the tatvaartha of shankaraacharya . Same with thiruppugazah and thirumarai Although brahmins are well versed in Thiuppugazh and thirumarai, they passionately go through the explanations of shri krupaananda vaariar who is even hailed as the 64th naayanmaar. all said - but whatever is destined by god is bound to happen. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, A vaidika per se belonging to the three basic schools of philosophy of Advaitha, vishishtadvaita and dvaita can never escape from paying obeisances to the devathas in performance of their nithya, naimithika karmas. But Upaasana should always be made to one and only one deity. Radhe Krishna.

Radhe Krishna, The basic three philosophies state that god is one and only one although they view differences in its form. God is a singular term. He is unique. It is not as if there are a band of gods and they have a head. what is referred to as demigods are the devatha ganam. A devatha can never be a god. Devathas are as perishable like you and me although there is difference of age, whereas God is omnipresent, omnipotent and imperishable. God is the supreme. none is above him or even equal to him. the ladder of manushya to brahmam is explained in ananda valli of thaithriya upanishad. To raise devatha to the poistion of God is to upgrade them unscripturally and downgrade god unscripturally. Apart from this, give importance to what is said in thirukural "Epporul yaar yaar vaai ketpinum Apporul meiporul kaanbadharivu" Meaning - Information has to be looked at the facevalue of its truth rather than its source. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, First of all I do not belong to ISKCON. I pay my obeisances to the services rendered by shri prabhupada for krishna bhakthi movement and bhagawan nama prachaara he rendered all through his life although I do not share his views on many matters. But, yes I know, in this thread and in many other threads heated exchanges are going on inbetween ISKCONites whether changes can be made in the writings of Shri Prabhupada. So many people have written for and against these changes. It would be dishonest on my part to poke my nose unnecessarily in this issue. But I am totally against making any changes in any of the literature for that matter. Afterall a person who composed the literature is far far at a higher platform than a person who wishes to make change in it. If you do not agree with any of the things as a vidyarthi, I do not view that badly if you discuss it. But making a change in the literature itself, my dear friend, that is offensive. If you wish to make one change, there are hundreds of thousands of people who wish to make lakhs of changes - some on the basis of history some on the basis of likes dislikes some on the basis of philosophy - the list is endless. By this way any literature would end up like a kichri. In south India, the krithis by Thiagaraaja, Shyama shasthri and Muthuswamy Deekshidar are sung as swara saahithya. Apart from the lyric, importance is also given to the raaga in which the krithis are composed because that exhibits the bhava in which composer intended to present the krithi. The vyakyana kartha is given freedom to express the literature. Janmaadyasya yathon vayath for this starting phrase of Bhagwatham, vyakyaana krathas have given vyakyaanam pages together. Similarly if you so want you can debate a shloka or an alphabet from shrimad bhagawatha in pages together. But no no no no to change Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, Sorry to interrupt once again, After going through one of the threads, I came to know that study of many of the grantha mentioned above is not prescribed for ISKCONites at certain levels. You should be knowing your level and accordingly you may go through above granthas or you can refer your guru maharaj in this regard. Although these are gaudiya granthas, I came to know there are restrictions for gaudiyas in going through these granthaas. Me a non gaudiya. Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna, Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. krsna, Radhe krishna. I read your above thread top to bottom and had my reservations over it. As such I do not belong to ISKCON although I agree with some aspects of this organisation I do not agree with many aspects. My reservations about what is written in the thread "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" got cleared after going through the contents of this thread. I am so sorry to say that pictorial and verbal presentation of the episode is not as per descriptions of shrimad bhagavatham and is in a very bad taste. let me explain why? Gopi vasthraapaharana leela takes place in 22nd adyaya Govardhanodhaarana leela is explained in 24,25 and 26th adyaya. In 24th shloka of 26th adyaya the age of krishna at the time of Govardhanodhaarana leela is mentioned. "kva sapthahaayano balaha kva mahadrividharanam" krishna was of the age of 7 at the time of govardhana leela. Gopi vasthraapaharana leela takes place before this leela. If not less, the age can not be more than 7 at the time of Gopi vasthraapaharana leela. leaving the picture you posted at #4, the pictures posted at #6,#7,#8 does not at all represent the picture of a 7 year old boy. plus vyakyanam given by a guest at #9 with all ISKCON vocabulary in narrating the events - is given in a bad taste - at times quoting events out of the context of shrimad bhagawatham. paying my obeisance to the service rendered by shri prabhupada for his krishna bhakthi movement and bhagawannama prachaara ( although I do not share my views on many of his viewpoints) - I always admired his humbleness in viewing Shrimad Bhagawatham. Eventhough well qualified eventhough at a very high platform he always considered him not that high to even discuss about intimate leelas of Bhagawan. True to his convictions, when he started writing the commentary of Shrimad Bhagawatham, he reached the abode of God on 14th November 1977 after having written commentary upto 13th adyaya of Dashama Skanda of Shrimad Bhagawatham. Whereas I wondered why he discouraged people not to discuss the intimate leelas of Bhagawan by going through his opinions in the thread "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread", all my doubts got cleared by the way the leela is depicted and discussed in this thread. Atleast in the name of shri prabhupada, atleast krsnaji end your further forays about the leela. with lots of hurt Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna Guest, can u quote the shlokas of Shrimad Bhagawatha which gives following purports cited above by you Quote : If you do not come here, however, and if you lodge complaints to My father, I shall not care anyway, for I know My father is old and cannot take any action against Me.” As far as my knowledge goes, I have read nothing like what is quoted above. Let me come with my objections to the way the pictures are depicted above in violation of description of age of krishna and gopis in Shrimad Bhagawatham at the time of gopi vasthraapaharana leela. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, Well guided bija. Guru is there where there is knowledge and peace. Guru is not there where there are expectations of money. Sanaathana dharma is a big very very big tree which is embraced by so many sampradaayas. Undoubtedly gaudiya sampradaaya is a branch of sanaathana dharma. As per the traditional system in sanaathana dharma, initiation from a guru is always encouraged since a person at a higher platform could give proper guidance to a person at a lower platform. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, I very strongly feel that to change even a single alphabet in any literature is offensive. These great granthas were penned by great souls. Vyasacharya was svayam vishnu. If a person can find fault with what is composed by Bhagawan vishnu himself, what could be said. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, My dear friend, paying my obeisance to all the early gaudiya vaishnava aacharyaas, I wish to remind you that there is world beyond gaudiya sampradaaya. As the tamil saint thiruvalluvar, says, from whatever source you obtain knowledge, the matter to be looked upon is truth and not the source. This has been the teachings of many upanishads also. If you study Shrimad Bhagavatham, you would come to know that knowledge was obtained by Bikshu from as much varied personalities like a veshya shthri pingala to a snake. The same question was asked to me when I pointed out the voidness in the concept of godhead and demigods which is against the teachings of Advaita, Visishtadvaita and dvaita. All the three philosophies teach that God is one and only one although there are differences as to his form. Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna The position that shankaracharya indicated a system of varna by birth have been unequivocally established in this thread whether with like or dislike. I have went through shri vaishnava group of threads and give below how Ramanujacharya viewed the issue : Quote : 1 AzhvArs who are nitya sUri-s, are not to be compared to any Tom, Dick and Harry who walk on the road. rAmAnuja, who undoubdedly was a great reformer, never got any non-brahmin to be a priest, or to enter the sanctum sanctorum. In SrI bhAshyam, he has indicated his position on these kinds of issues. Quote : 2 It is my hope that this dhurmathi's ( Chief Minister's) edict will experience a slow death and will be thrown on the ash heap of History as in the case of the Krimi kanta ChOzhan . Meanwhile , let us help to push this aggressive behaviour out however we can and think of MahA Lakshmi's comparable KaruNA katAksham to remove all these amangaLams including the source . Radhe Krishna <!-- / message -->

Radhe Krishna, Very rightly said gaur hari. Guror anugraheneiva pumaan poorna prashanthaye it is only by the mercy of guru, a human becomes a complete personality. Lord krishna has demonstrated this to the world by becoming a sishya of sandeepani and the guru bakthi he had for his guru. he redeemed the son of sandeepani who was lost in the ocean believed to be dead. Complee surrender to guru is the action which would straight away lift a person to the lotus feet of hari. Radhe Krishna

Radhe Krishna, sorry to interrupt and put forth my point once again yeganji. In my last post I have mentioned only about Shrimad Bhagawatham and Bhagawat Geetha. Let me expand the list. I do not belong to ISKCON. But I have gone through many of the granthas composed by early gaudiya acharyaas albeit not fully. Radha rasasudhanidhi - I have gone through completely. It is a grantha generally believed to be composed by Hithaharivamsa - the sthaapakaa of Radha Vallaba mandir at Vraja. But as per gaudiya accounts it is penned by a relative of Gopala Bhatta goswami. Whoever has penned it, the grantha is a treasure of Radhaju's gunanubhava. the granthas compiled by the six goswami sishyaas of chaitanya mahaprabhu, Shri rupa goswami, sanaathana goswami, Raghunatha dasa goswami, Radhunatha bhatta goswami, Gopala Bhatta goswami and jeeva goswami - Wonderful granthas in radha krishna bhakthi -- 1.Laghu Bhagavatha kathamrutham 2. Bruhad Bhagavatha kathamrutham 3. Vaishnava thoshani 4.Bhakthi rasamrutha sindhu 5. Hari Bhakthi Vilaasam 6. Ujjwala Neelamani 7. Lalitha maadhavam 8. Vidagdha maadhavam 9.Gopaala Champu 10. Shat sandarba The list is endless. Why I am writing all these. Apart from Radharasa sudhanidhi, I have gone through a little bit of above granthas and that little bit has kindled my interest to go through all these granthas. By Radhaju's krupa, I have purchased recently moolagrantha of Haribhakthi vilaasam from vraja and I hope I would get the other granthas also. My dear friend, If and if at all one just gets into this grantha saagara you know - one would be drowned in the krishna saagara. Try it and you will tell me that you do not have time to do any thing else But i would be sorry if I have interrupted your other passion of knowing about ghosts. Radhe krishna

Radhe Krishna The position that shankaracharya indicated a system of varna by birth have been unequivocally established in this thread whether with like or dislike. I have went through in shri vaishnava group of threads and give below how Ramanujacharya viewed the issue : Quote : 1 AzhvArs who are nitya sUri-s, are not to be compared to any Tom, Dick and Harry who walk on the road. rAmAnuja, who undoubdedly was a great reformer, never got any non-brahmin to be a priest, or to enter the sanctum sanctorum. In SrI bhAshyam, he has indicated his position on these kinds of issues. Quote : 2 It is my hope that this dhurmathi's ( Chief Minister's) edict will experience a slow death and will be thrown on the ash heap of History as in the case of the Krimi kanta ChOzhan . Meanwhile , let us help to push this aggressive behaviour out however we can and think of MahA Lakshmi's comparable KaruNA katAksham to remove all these amangaLams including the source . Radhe Krishna