bija

Debate prabhu is your qualification...due to the good fortune of being born in the sacred land of the ganga. I was not raised with such an exalted heritage...and am not qualified as you are. In this area your sastric knowledge is vast...and I am your servant.

Yes they can Prabhu.

A linear definition or graph is never adequate to desribe the Absolute Truth. The spiritual universe of the Gaudiya contains all, just as the Summum Bonum does. The Gaudiya accepts Sri Krsna as the Supreme Personality...because of the sweetness of the rasa the devotee feels in that relationship. Such debate is very different from the mundane religionists argument, when he says...my God is the greatest, my understanding of God is the greatest. And a linear or graph presentation. You should read Sri Brhad Bhagavatamrta - click here by Santana Goswami, to understand a master approach as to why the Gaudiya accepts sweetness as the highest rasa. And also to view the inclusive grand cosmology where worshippers of Narayana, Shiva and other manifestation of God, are all fully satisfied in their chosen (eternal) rasa. For they have each realized their original, true nature. Where the devotee finds fullest satisfaction...there she remains (in the conception of highest truth). In the Absolute Truth mundane relativity is of maya. Sweetness has been described in their heart felt self as the highest...because of the sweetness. A devotee will never minimize another fully realized devotees rasa. But they have chosen to use gradation to practically show the simple beauty of madhurya. That is the only reason (while in this world) they have chosen to use relative terms. In this material world words fall short of the Glory of Truth!

I have met three through transcendenatl sound (vani): Sila Gurudeva, Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and Srila Bhaktivinoda...who confirm by their deep realization of the essence of Sri Gauranga's divine mission, that Jesus was a simple hearted vaisnava. And as you often say yourself dark, 'it does not matter if you accept this or not'. Why? Because you are a Sri Vaisnava, and that is glorious in itself. Hari Hari!

No. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu never desired to prove religion such as Islam was inadequate...but instead showed that bhakti is the essence of all religion...and that the goal is love of God. Therefore Sri Ramanuja was never inadequate (but bona-fide and exalted). Similarly, the faith of a christian or muslim is not inadequate if they understand such truth. And like all of us...spiritual life is a progression...and an eternal journey. All souls are vaisnava...they just need to realize it (that is the truth of Sri Caitanya).

Quote: <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by theist The individuals who take advantage of monastic life benefit and society benefits by supporting the efforts toward God consciousness in the citizens. </td></tr></tbody></table> this is a wonderful commentary theist, imo.

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"The sun is the eye of God". Ancient Sages. "light upon mass" bishadi 'woe is the Me' bija:eek4:

Yes. But the simple hearted Gaudiya never lowers the station of Sri Ramanuja (or christ) in any one's eyes. Such demeaning is possibly vaisnava aparadha (or opening a door for others to commit such). Such great souls and compassionate messengers of God are the founders of your sampradaya and a movement that has guided many toward the path of God (christianity). You can tell a tree by its fruit! Whereas I have seen in your posts no respect for Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, or respect for the faith (often fledgling) of the Gaudiya who rests his surrender there. Or I have not seen your ability so much, to nurture the simple faith of the Gaudiya that Gauranga is God. But rather a immaturity in this regard. Then again none of us are perfect (I am not)...so there is room for all things in this world. It is easy to be the critic, but takes much greater intelligence to see the divine purpose of all things even in the darkest corners. And even the Divine Purpose of why Sri Krsna has expressed (and allowed in His master plan) the ability to be called Gauranga (Sri Sri Radha-Krsna combined).

Sometimes we need to polish the mirror of our heart rather than continual polishing of bathroom mirror:P. If we wish our eccentrics to be understood by others...we should wear a feather in our hat:idea:! The Hari's and other guys have got it...use the tongue to glorify God (I wonder how to do that - woe). The most good looking fella in my house is me lil' mate. (but still he doesn't listen to me)

There is much more references here...what to say of the philosophical truth of Lord Gauranga as an avatara as taught by the acaryas such as Sri Rupa... Nityananda Gauranga in the Vedas - click here Why GaurangaKrishna: The most deepest, intimate, esoteric and confidential form of Lord Krishna is the divine form of Lord Gauranga. In this form, He Himself tries to fulfill His desires which are innermost in His heart of understanding Shrimati Radha's pure love for Him. So even though Lord Krishna and Lord Gauranga are one and the same Person, still Lord Krishna becomes even more perfectly complete when He accepts the golden form of Lord Gauranga imbued with Shrimati Radha's love. There is no other thing as important to Him than His pastimes with His own pleasure potency Shrimati Radha. Thus, there is nothing more important to Him than His acceptance of the golden form of Lord Gaura with Shrimati Radha's mood and complexion. Therefore, when we say Lord Gauranga Krishna or Lord Gaura Krishna or Lord Gaura Hari or Lord Krishna Chaitanya, we please Him even more than by saying Lord Krishna, Lord Hari etc. because we remind Him of His most intimate desires, exchanges and pastimes which are the most important to Him. "Lord Gauranga Krishna" literally means the golden-limbed Radha-bhavi Lord Krishna. Thus it is an even more complete representation of the Absolute Truth which includes His hladini shakti Shrimati Radharani. Stating Gauranga Krishna is not a rasabhasa or an improper mixing of mellows. It has been used to address the Lord by His Associates and Acharyas. His Name of Gaura Hari was given to Him by His eternal associates in Navadvipa during His birth and His Sannyasa Name of Shri Krishna Chaitanya was announced from the sky to His sannyasa guru Shrila Keshava Bharati. Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada used His Name of "Gaura Krishna" very often and he would sign his letters with "In the service of Gaura Krishna", in the end. (srila gurudeva)

The most important Shri Chaitanya Upanishad—Atharva Veda comprises of the following 19 verses: SRI CAITANYA UPANIShAD (i) atha pippaladah samit-panir bhagavantam brahmanam upasanno. bhagavan me subham kim atra cakshasveti. Carrying firewood in his hands, Pippalada humbly approached his supremely powerful father, Lord Brahma, and asked: “O my Lord, please instruct me on how I may attain an auspicious life.” (ii) sa hovaca. bhuya eva tapasa brahmacaryena sasvad ramasva mano vaseti. Lord Brahma replied: “Be satisfied by always remaining celibate and performing austerities and very carefully control the activities of the mind.” (iii) sa tatha bhutva bhuya enam upasadyaha. bhagavan kalau papac channah prajah katham mucyerann iti. Pippalada followed these instructions, and after having become pure in his own heart and mind, he again approached his father and asked: “O my Lord, please tell me how the living entities in Kali-yuga, who are completely covered by sin, may be delivered.” (iv) ko va devata ko va mantro bruhiti. “Which form of the Lord should be the object of their worship, and what mantra should they chant in order to become delivered? Kindly inform me.” (v) sa hovaca rahasyam te vadishyami. jahnavi-tire navadvipe golokakhye dhamni govindo dvi-bhujo gaurah sarvatma maha-purusho mahatma maha-yogi tri-gunatitah sattva-rupo bhaktim loke kasyatiti. tad ete sloka bhavanti. Lord Brahma replied: “Listen carefully, for I shall give you a very confidential description of what will happen in the Kali-yuga. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda who is the all-pervading Supersoul residing in the hearts of all living entities, who is the Supreme Absolute Truth, the master of all mystics and the supreme enjoyer, who is beyond the touch of the three modes of material nature and whose form is transcendental, will appear again in the Kali age. Appearing as His own greatest devotee, the Lord will assume a two-armed form with a golden complexion in His abode of Goloka Vrindavana manifested on the bank of the Ganges at Navadvipa, West Bengal. He will disseminate pure devotional service in the whole world. I will now describe this incarnation of the Lord in the following verses.”

[7] svetasvataropanishadi (3.12) mahan prabhur vai purushah sattvasyaisha pravartakah su-nirmalam imam praptim isano jyotir avyayah In the Svetasvatara Upanishad it is said: “The Supreme Personality of Godhead who is supreme enjoyer is indeed Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who promulgates the transcendental platform of pure goodness through the process of hari-nama-sankirtana. This Supreme Lord is the source of all spiritual purity. Just to be in touch with Him is to be in contact with the indestructible brahmajyoti.” [8] chandogyopanishadi (Eighth Chapter) harih om. atha yad idam asmin brahmapure daharam pundarikam vesma daharo ’sminn antarakasas tasmin yad-antas tad anveshtavyam tad vava vijijnasitavyam iti. In the Chandogya Upanishad 8.1.1, Navadvipa (the abode of Lord Chaitanya) is hinted as the city of Brahmapura: Hari. Om. In the very heart of this spiritual city (brahmapura) is a lotus abode (vesma). The internal part of that abode should be sought. This is the part one should desire to understand. [Comment: The verse is furthur explained by Thakura Bhaktivinoda as follows: atra brahma-puram nama pundarikam yad ucyate tad evashta-dalam padma-sannibham puram adbhutam In the Chandogya Upanishad, that place is a transcendental spiritual city (brahmapura) which is surrounded by a wonderful eight-petal lotus flower where each petal represents an island.” tan-madhye daharam sakshat mayapuram itiryate tatra vesma bhagavatas chaitanyasya paratmanah tasmin yas tv antarakaso hy antar-dvipah sa ucyate In the center of that eight-petalled lotus-city is the ninth island (whorl of the lotus) called Antardvipa, and in the heart of Antardvipa is Shridhama Mayapur (Yogapitha), which is directly the abode of Lord Shri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]

atharva-vede (Third Kanda, Brahma-vibhaga) ito 'ham krita-sannyaso 'vatarishyami sa-guno nirvedo nishkamo bhu-girbanas tira-stho 'lakanandayah kalau catuh-sahasrabdhopari panca-sahasrabhyantare gaura-varno dirghangah sarva-lakshana-yukta isvara-prarthito nija-rasasvado bhakta-rupo misrakhyo vidita-yogah syam. In the Atharva Veda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself says: "Towards the end of the period between four-thousand to five-thousand years in Kali-yuga, I will descend on the earth as Gauranga, a golden-complexioned saintly brahmana in a place by the Ganges' shore and later become the crest-jewel of all sannyasis, exhibiting all My transcendental qualities including supreme renunciation and complete detachment from material desires. In the form of Lord Gauranga, I will display all the thirty-two bodily symptoms of a great personality with my arms extending to my knees. I will become my own devotee, very advanced in bhakti-yoga and teach the worship of Lord Krishna (Myself) by the chanting of My own holy names and relishing the mellows of My own devotional service. At that time only My most confidential devotees will be able to understand Me." narada-pancaratre bhakti-priyo bhakti-data, damodara ibhas-patih; indra-darpa-haro 'nanto, nityananda-cid-atmakah. In the Narada-pancaratra, Bala-Krishna-sahasra-nama-stotra, it is said: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is known by the names Nityananda, Bhakti-priya, Bhakti-data, Damodara, Ibhas-pati, Indra-darpa-hara, Ananta, Cid-atmaka,. ." nrisimha-purane satye daitya-kuladhi-nasa-samaye simhordhva-martyakritis tretayam dasa-kandharam paribhavan rameti namakritih gopalan paripalayan vraja-pure bharam haran dvapare gaurangah priya-kirtanah kali-yuge chaitanya-nama prabhuh In the Nrisimha Purana it is said: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who appeared in Satya-yuga as Lord Nrisimhadeva in the form of half-man and half-lion to destroy Hiranyakasipu, the king of the demons, and who appeared in Treta-yuga as Lord Ramacandra to kill the great ten-headed demon Ravana, and who appeared in the Dvapara-yuga for protecting and maintaining the cowherd men and women of Vrindavana and removing the burden of the earth, will appear again in the Kali-yuga in a golden form. He will fully relish the chanting of His own holy names and His name will be Lord Gauranga." kaleh prathama-sandhyayam, gaurango 'ham mahi-tale; bhagirathi-tate ramye, bhavishyami saci-sutah. In the Padma Purana, the Supreme Lord affirms: "In the first sandhya of Kali-yuga, I will appear as Gauranga on the earth in a beautiful place by the shore of the Ganges. I will become the son of Sacidevi and My complexion will be golden."

thats for the little one....(the above post #30) check out on the floor of the first temple in the interactive site it says: idea idol ideal way cool! I got this museum site from my fave blog....good old ursi http://www.eso-garden.com/index.php

Jeff Hoke, curator of the Museum of Lost Wonder and author of the book bearing the same title (also senior exhibition designer at California's Monterey Bay Aquarium), had a mission: To illuminate life's mysteries. He writes that the eclectic museums and curiosity cabinets of the 1600s inspired him, and that he wants to return us to a time before "science became a belief system unto itself," a time when artist-alchemist-scientists were able to search for inner truth via mystical experiences and experiments without being ridiculed. The museum is arranged with 7 halls (representing the seven stages of alchemical process) in which the questions of the universe unfold. It begins with The Calcinatio Hall where the featured exhibit is The Beginning of Everything and leads us into halls like The Sublimatio Hall, with the exhibit How To Have Visions. In The Separatio Hall the exhibit Where Are You Going challenges us in our own journey. Through each hall we are led into an exhibit that questions our own understanding of life and urges us into new ways of thinking. There is more information about the book on his website. Once there, you can also take an interactive tour of the Museum of Lost Wonder. Just click on the 'Tour' tab. Step inside and discover your lost wonder! Enter here - click! by Jeff Hoke. <embed src=" " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344">

I was thinking about your definitions of light today, while traversing the streets enjoying the company of my town folk(in silence)...and a verse from the old books came to mind....'the sun is the eye of god'. How true...we must see by that light. Oh yeah....its a blast all right...even on a down day (full of yearning for beautitude). Gratitude and mother earth are my religion. Well this white fella has worked hard for his buddha belly:P...and my knees are worn out from sitting cross legged in front of my computer on the floor on a cushion. Its hard to get up somedays:eek:. Thx for the encouragment, to keep speaking the truth, while walking the jungle of religion. Religion needs the real...and honesty...and the ability to say...we do not know the full picture yet:cool:. your servant...skippy (the bush kangaroo)....whats that skip? (silence) boi noche!

The fundamentalist Hare Krsna and other religionists will point out the heresy of evolution, by the simple fact that the vedic cosmos is degrading (kali yuga). And position, how can an evolution be at all possible? They will say...evolution...non-sense! Degradation!!! We Vaisnavas need to re-term the word evolution. A simple reply to this argument of the fundamentalist, is to realize that all things in nature are a picture, or at least point to the reality of God. Just as a human being begins life as a child...the human then matures if fortunate into a spiritual humane/spirit entity. And as old age and death approaches, such a spiritual person experiences the light of grace, and beatitude of humanity, even with the presence of disease and death. Infact for the spiritualist, death is life. This is the redefinition of the term evolution that I envision, even in a macro-scale (of the universe), not just an individual phenomenon. I understand such phenomenon as a golden age, even within the age of degradation (kali). To use a religious terminology used by many Hare Krsna people. The eminence of personality and personalism <hr size="1" width="100%" align="center" color="white" noshade="noshade"> Here is a quote from the introduction of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's book 'The Phenomenon of Man' by Julian Huxley 1958. <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Pierre</st1:place></st1:city> was a Jesuit priest who was also a scientist, he aided in the discovery of Peking Man skull. He attempted to reconcile evolution with his faith as a spiritualist and personalist. This book is a study of the potentiality of man as a 'person of spirit'. It may be an apparent unlikely source to support Krsna consciousness but in my opinion very helpful. The ultimate beautitude for the spirit soul, according to the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Gaudiya teachers, is existence in a realm of conscious awareness, permeated by pure devotion to a loving center – the Supreme Person. In my understanding this 'personal realm and reality' is the destiny of creation. And is Goloka Vrindavan and the Vaikuntha spoken of by the ancient sages. <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]--> Quote: <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="border: 1pt solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 4.5pt 18pt; background: rgb(224, 224, 224) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"> "...In any case the concept of a hyperpersonal mode of organization sprang from Pierre Teilhard's conviction of the supreme importance of personality. A developed human being, as he rightly pointed out, is not merely a highly individualized individual. He has crossed the threshold of self-conscious to a new mode of thought, and as a result has achieved some degree of conscious integration - integration of the self with the outer world of men and nature, integration of the seperate elements of the self with each other. He is a person, and organism which has transcended individuality in personality. This attainment of personality was an essential element in man's past and present evolutionary success: accordingly its fuller achievment must be an essential aim for his evolutionary future. This belief in the pre-eminent importance of the personality in the scheme of things was for him (a jesuit priest) a matter of faith, but of faith supported by rational inquiry and scientific knowledge....He realized that the appearance of human personality was the culmination of two major evolutionary trends - the trend towards more extreme individuation, and that towards more extensive interrelation and co-operation: persons are individuals who transcend their merely organic individuality in conscious participation'. From the introduction to the book ‘phenomenon of man’ by Pierre Tielhard de Chardin written by Julian Huxley 1958 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> In regards to evolution of the mind and its psychic ability... To bring this essay to a fold, I would like to begin where I started, by quoting myself. <hr size="1" width="100%" align="center" color="white" noshade="noshade"> <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]--> Quote: <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="border: 1pt solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 4.5pt 18pt; background: rgb(224, 224, 224) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"> I believe a day will come that people will freely talk about such things (subtle body potentiality) (without being considered crackpot or attention seekers). And like a candle lit from one candle to another this human gift will pass from one to another. We only need to acknowledge it. Infact as evolution of consciousness develops on earth we have great potential for healing and love...and with the world crisis of abuse of natural resource (and each other) etc...the organism will awaken to save itself. This ability to self heal is built into both the micro and macro organism… quote by Nava. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> The motivating choice to share is part of our nature - humaneness. We can base our decision to speak about the nature of God, and humanity (mind body) by such a choice of compassion. Then all will be assisted by grace - for our own good as a whole. Drawing back to the beginning of my point in the first few paragraphs of this essay, and my own psychic/spiritual unfoldment. And the ability of a fully developing human mind (and eventual awareness of its potential - in my case an energetic harmony and visualization of such based on love, not on the false assumption of ourselves as controller – each person ofcourse has their own unique encounter of mind, body, and spirit)...in relation to spiritual cultivation and application of this human gift. And the great potential of this evolving conscious awareness of ourselves and the environment we live in, by God's great mercy and design...and the potential activation of a global and universal spiritual (personal) consciousness. The destiny of existence. <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]--> Quote: <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="border: 1pt solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 4.5pt 18pt; background: rgb(224, 224, 224) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"> '...Pierre...extrapolating from the past into the future, envisaged the process of human convergence as tending to a final state* (I call this final state Vaikuntha keeping with tradition I study and practice), which he called the Omega point, as opposed to the Alpha of elementary material particles and their energies. If I understand him aright, he considers that two factors are co-operating to promote this further complexification of the noosphere (the atmosphere of mind). One is the increase of knowledge about the universe at large, from the galaxies and stars to human societies and individuals. The other is the increase of psycho-social pressure on the surface of our planet. The result of the one is that the noosphere incorporates ever more facets of the cosmos, including the facts of its general direction and its trends in time, so as to become more truly a microcosm...' *Presumably, in designating this state as Omega, he believed that it was a truly final condition. It might have been better to think of it merely as a novel state or mode of organization, beyond which the human imagination cannot at present pierce, though perhaps the strange facts of extra-sensory perception unearthed by the infant science of parapsychology may give us a clue as to a possible more ultimate state. (Parapsychology and transpersonal psychology has developed since its fledgling days in 1958.) *from the introduction to the above book Phenomenon of Man by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin 1958 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> Such an unfolding of human awareness and potentiality, in my opinion points toward the truth of the Personalistic View of the Ancient Veda, and of its relevance for todays world. Especially its central focus on bhakti (devotion) culminating in harmonious love of God. One might say, such encounters within our own being are pointers to our fulfillment (the omega point)...Krsna consciousness (and existence in that land). Such bhakti, with full consciousness of being and humanity...may just be the key to a new world and expanded conscious living. Beyond the bounds of religion and current science. The intelligent design theorists may infact come to the conclusion that there is a God, simply by the encounter of their own spiritual awakening. Which they will then scientifically describe. The vaisnava who is brave enough to speak on their terms, may have some insights to share with them, from his/her own encounter of gradual awakening. There are many scientific approaches in this 21^st century that acknowledge the possibility of God, that also deal in the area of mind. Transpersonal science and psychology and para-psychology have come leaps and bounds since the discoveries of quantum physics. Dare we be brave enough to speak out our small realizations (as spiritualists)…to the materialists. Or shall we be in fear of being called eccentrics or crackpots by them. Or being called heretics by the fundamentalist religionists, when we are simply attempting to serve Guru and Gauranga, and the great souls who tread the path before us. Being motivated by compassion. Your servant…bija.

A spiritualist definition of evolution and intelligent design By bija <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]--> (Please forgive the forwardness of which I begin this short essay. I take the risk of being misunderstood or criticized, due to my motivation – compassion.) I have a type of siddhi (psychic phenomenon) and see subtle aspects of material energy and mind. An extension of the subtle body. New age people since the sixties in the west have called it Aura – which does great injustice to the phenomenon. Modern science would call it ‘synesthesia’ which is also a limiting analysis in some ways. Neglecting the spiritual aspect (study of synesthesia is in early stages presently). Here is an example of what my mind sees. A friend had her first baby last year. I saw the child just after birth…the babies extended subtle body (aura) was pristine innocence and simplicity. About as close to the most perfect reflection as I have seen in this material world, of spirit/soul or pure mind. I have seen similar in some fine adults too...but matured. This vision opens up a whole new scope of living – which I cannot begin to discuss in this short article. Rather I would wish to ever so minutely, touch on the nature of mind and evolution. And the relevance of this experiential encounter, and how it effects my own spiritual growth, and also a small attempt at dialogue with science. Especially the field of transpersonal psychology, para-psychology, and quantum field research. I would aspire for such beauty and simplicity that I saw in that small babe, as a vaisnava aspiring purity. This is my realization from the words of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura regarding the Vaisnava. Such beauty in nature is surely proof and...a painting of God’s immanence in creation. <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]--> Quote: <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="border: 1pt solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 4.5pt 18pt; background: rgb(224, 224, 224) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"> 2.What is the character of a Vaisnava? Who is qualified to be called a Vaisnava? The character of a Vaisnava is sinless and no part of his character is fit for hiding. Simplicity is the life of a Vaisnava. He always teaches others by setting his own examples. Unless his character is pure, he is not fit to be called a Vaisnava.(Sajjana-tosanl 5/10) by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura </td> </tr> </tbody></table> Now I would like to elaborate here, why I have chosen to discuss such things, in the opening of this essay, in relation to the video Hadai Nityananda Prabhu has posted. Please bare with me.And also I would like to touch on how a developed spiritual human being can understand the inadequacy of Darwanism, the future potential of Intelligent design, and the relation of all this to Bhakti Yoga toward the Supreme Personality – the Summum Bonum (as decribed in the Bhagavatam). Please forgive my liberalism which can go a little abstract from mainstream Gaudiya teachings. I allow this liberalism because I am talking to the scientific community in terminology, as is represented in the above video. Maybe I am foolish to admit such a thing as a psychic gift (siddhi). But I will attempt to explain how this has impacted my spiritual journey as a bhakti yogin, and as a developing conscious human (and spirit) encased in a subtle body. And how a Krsna conscious devotee can share his faith and awakening in a somewhat scientific way. Even though such discourse may not be understood by many scientists and religionists presently, and may not be sufficient in proof. I believe a day will come that people will freely talk about such things as the subtle phenomena of experience (without being considered crackpot or attention seekers). And like a candle lit from one candle to another this human gift will pass from one to another. We only need to acknowledge it and not be ashamed (and leave behind esotericism). Infact as ‘evolution’ of consciousness develops on earth we have great potential for healing and love...and with the world crisis of abuse of natural resource (and each other) etc...the organism will awaken to save itself. This ability to self heal is built into both the micro and macro organism. One intelligent new age man ( a qualified psychologist – James Redfield) wrote the book 'Celestine Prophecies' and made a lot of money. It is a wishy washy book in many ways – very new age. But he had a very good realization. And he touches on my own experiential encounter of mind. He says this in his book, I will para-phrase: On a subtle energetic field people dominate each other or nature....or at least try to. As the human becomes aware of its minds potential...it can be released from its delusion of being the controller of all it surveys. And instead awaken to deep sensitivity and full humanity. A cultivation of spirituality. Does this sound familiar? Humane is a beautiful word. And until we awaken to the wonderful truth of 'one organism' or ‘the reality of Krsna’ of which we are a part, and its inter-action (even if this world is just shadow of a spiritual world), we may never be humane as a species. Man is not an animal as such, because of this quality of humanity, that can be exercised to a great degree. Beyond sect, beyond nation, beyond family...universal potential! It is very simple to see who has developed humane sensitivity (and has began to awaken to the spiritual dimension) and who has not. A religionist with little humanity is a fanatic...a human without spirituality is potentially selfish and a miser. Christ called us to be meek...and Lord Caitanya called us to be humble. Both said a great gift awaits such a person. Rather than use siddhis (psychic ability or awareness) to make money, hypnotise people, or other dominating gross activities etc (as many in India and around the world have done)...we should utilize our awakening being for awakening of human love and healing of the world. Which culminates in love of God. The pinnacle – which is the message of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. A golden age some may say is coming…some of us can see its immanence already. Animals live with abilities (in accord with nature)...if humans abuse their natural gifts of nature, mind and body, they are less than animal. Siddhi serves a purpose (rather than a stumbling block for the ego)...a step toward the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placetype w:st="on">kingdom</st1:placetype> of <st1:placename w:st="on">God</st1:placename></st1:place>. A stepping stone that need not be a hindrance. My spirituality is bhakti…my humanity is knowing and moving toward Spirit. My humanity is a part of my God conscious experience while encased in this body. An Immanent God as well as Transcendent God is what I feel is truth. For me this is full integration as a human being and as a Krsna conscious spirit soul. And this cannot be boxed into a stereo-type. “humane: marked or motivated by concern with the alleviation of suffering.” The preacher of Krsna consciousness must discover novel ways and means to convince the scientific world, the new age spiritualists, and the atheistic society of the relevance of an Intelligent design. The only way to scientifically experience that reality of God, is to experience it! I feel if we deny the 'physical' and its potential to be utilized in spiritual practice, we disadvantage ourselves as spiritualists. Physical is not false, it is simply temporary and prone to change. And it is not for self-gratification. A harmonization of body, mind, and spirit is possible, without being a materialist. In a sense this harmonization could be called realization. It is definitely application in Krsna consciousness. My hope is that religion and its purer forms may follow the course of human evolution (and the Immanent God)...and not remain simply in books of a past time in denial of modernity. But intelligently find terminologies to relate to the mechanistic scientific society. Even if that means using terms and words of the 21^st century scientific community that appears to be slowly moving toward spirit. Remaining in book terminologies of a past era (which is not wrong), to teach modern atheistic people can stifle potential of convergence, and increase divergence. It can divide further the pure spiritualist and the pure materialist. There is enough evidence of this amongst fundamentalist religious fanatics and fundamentalist materialists caught up in inadequate theories such as Darwanism and destructive religious ideology. The outcome of these opposing groups is definately not harmony and spirituality, which has been the mission of representatives of God. No wonder those who have not awakened to the reality of God are suspicious of religion and its men, and confused by the limited dry vision of the mechanistic scientists. Unfortunately there may be many obstacles to this pragmatic Krsna conscious vision and preaching, some of that opposition from the very structures, temples, mosques, and churches, which by nature were founded to bring about the actualization of the human. And a spiritual world-wide society. One example of this is the religionists insistence that evolution is heresy. When infact such religionists do not have enough good sense, due to bias, to realize that Darwin’s model of evolution was a preliminary model and speculation, with many flaws, due to lack of scientific apparatus and observation (when in fact 21st century science is a totally different ball game in some cases – the quantum world). And this is also due to their inherent nature to fear all knowledge which does not conform to their belief structure. When infact if doors were open their ideology could have profound impact, if it was not limited by themselves. The ideology should not be limited – but expressed in such a way that this suffering world can be emancipated. That is humane preaching, and compassionate. Real evolution of consciousness (of the human organism – the bound spirit soul) can only be known by direct experience (in my opinion)...and this movement of spirit/soul is in no way opposed to the reality of God (infact it supports the reality of God). It is scientific religion aimed toward the atheistic community and scientists. The fear of heresy becomes a fear, when truth only exists in the past. Religion needs desperately to mature in this regard (and religious structures such as many religious institutions need to apply intelligence if they are to be the saviours of the world as they prophecy).

Here is a response to the youtube video below (the essay is an edit from a discussion with bishadi on audarya fellowship) <embed src=" " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344">

aaww...cauliflower is the king of vegetables:rolleyes:!

Wow Suchandra...some may miss the importance of this thread. It is so so important! A functional society must allow room for 'the spiritual inherent in humanity'...otherwise society has failed to teach nothing more than consumeristic values. God help us if we only knew how many thoughtful young men and woman lost their way...because of the pain of mechanistic society. The spirtual needs an avenue of expression. I was hopeful for such with our movement. But its focus seemed to change...as has happened through the course of history with other free movements. Often people feel a depression, or lack of purpose...and that can be due to not knowing what we are here for. I have also seen several young men in Iskcon dedicate hours on the street selling books. And after a year or two as they mature (living in the ashrama) they begin to question their naieve dream. Some leave...and the so called movement of god(institution) does not even have the depth to counsel them spiritually through this crisis...at such a crucial stage of development. But instead these poor souls can only say...'I have fallen'. Its far far from a movement of mercy when these things happen! And its never talked about! I have seen one man this year in this dilemna...with nothing...his youth used and abused...its very sad. A dynamic book-seller. Maybe we need to re-define an avenue of expression...for the advanced young souls.

What does this mean...the acarya who has come for the service of the Lord does not have to conform to a stereo-type? Are we to follow in his foot-steps (and not be expected to fit a mold)? Or would we be mislead by our own fancy and ego?