bija

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> </td></tr></tbody></table> What a simple hearted great soul is Vaisnava Thakura! <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

:pray:Wonderful...actually I hope to be a friend of christ. To sit and eat, and laugh. As with you all oneday. Rubber bullets...with the shield of faith they bounce off. Unless I choose to allow them in. Or maybe inflatable tanks that look like a huge defence from the air. There is very little difference between us...maybe only the ocean.

The motivating choice to share is part of our nature - humaneness. We can base our decision to speak about the nature of God by such a choice. Then all will be assisted by grace - for our own good.. To draw back to the beginning of my point, the ability of a fully developing human mind ( and eventual awareness of psychic possibility - in my case an energetic harmony and visualization of such)...in relation to spiritual cultivation and application of this human gift. And the great potential of this evolving conscious awareness of ourselves and the environment we live in, by God's great mercy and design...and the potential activation of a global and universal spiritual (personal) consciousness. The destiny for existence. Such an unfolding of human awareness and potentiality, in my opinion points toward the truth of the Personalistic View of the Ancient Veda, and of its relevance for todays world. Especially its central focus on bhakti (devotion) culminating in harmonious love of God. One might say, such encounters within our own being are pointers to our fulfillment (the omega point)...Krsna consciousness (and existence in that land). Such bhakti, with full consciousness of being and humanity...may just be the key to a new world and expanded conscious living. Beyond the bounds of religion.

Here is a quote from the introduction of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's book 'The Phenomenon of Man' by Julian Huxley 1958. This book is a study of the potentiality of man as a 'person of spirit'. It may be an apparent unlikely source to support Krsna consciousness but in my opinion very helpful. The ultimate beautitude for the spirit soul, according to the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Gaudiya teachers, is existence in a realm of conscious awareness, permeated by pure devotion to a loving center. In my understanding this 'personal realm and reality' is the destiny of creation. And is Goloka Vrindavan and the Vaikuntha spoken of by the ancient sages.

The fundamentalist Hare krsna will point out the heresy of evolution, by the simple fact that the vedic cosmos is degrading (kali yuga). And position, how can an evolution be at all possible? They will say...evolution...non-sense! Degradation!!! A simple reply to this argument is to realize that all things in nature are a picture, or at least point to the reality of God. Just as a human being begins life as a child (as in this thread)...the human then matures if fortunate into a spiritual human entity. (As you yourself questioned bishadi about this boy in the picture. Will his religion serve that purpose?) And as old age and death approaches, such a spiritual person experiences the light of grace, and beatitude of humanity, even with the presence of disease and death. Infact for the spiritualist, death is life. This is the evolution I envision, even in a macro-scale (of the universe), not just an individual phenomenon. I understand such phenomenon as a golden age, even within the age of degradation (kali). To use a religious terminology used by many Hare Krsna people.

Unfortunately bishadi there may be many obstacles, some of that opposition from the very structures, temples, mosques, and churches, which by nature were founded to bring about the actualization of the human. One example of this is the religionists insistence that evolution is heresy. When infact such religionists do not have enough good sense, due to bias, to realize that Darwins model of evolution was a preliminary model and speculation, with many flaws, due to lack of scientific apparatus and observation (when in fact 21st century science is a totally different ball game in some cases). And this is also due to their inherent nature to fear all knowledge which does not conform to their belief structure. When infact if doors were open their ideology could have profound impact, if it was not limited by themselves. Real evolution of consciousness (and of the human organism) can only be known by direct experience (in my opinion)...and this movement of spirit/soul is in no way opposed to the reality of God (infact it supports the reality of God). The fear of heresy becomes a fear, when truth only exists in the past. Religion needs desperately to mature in this regard (and religious structures such as Iskcon need to apply intelligence if they are to be the saviour of the world as they prophecy).

Yes exactly. Infact I feel if we 'even deny' the 'physical' we disadvantage ourself. A harmonization of these three is possible, without being a materialist. In a sense this harmonization could be called realization. My hope is that religion and it's purer forms may follow the course of human evolution (and the Immanent God)...and not remain simply in books of a past time. Remaining in books of a past era (which is ok) can stifle potential of convergence, and increase divergence. There is enough evidence of this by religious fanatics now, and even on internet forums. Definately not harmony and spirituality, which has been the mission of representatives of God. No wonder those who have not awakened are suspicious of religion and its men.

A nice, simple, poetic realization. I accept:).

Maybe I am foolish to admit such a thing. But I believe a day will come that people will freely talk about such things (without being considered crackpot or attention seekers). And like a candle lit from one candle to another this human gift will pass from one to another. We only need to acknowledge it. Infact as evolution of consciousness develops on earth we have great potential for healing and love...and with the world crisis of abuse of natural resource (and each other) etc...the organism will awaken to save itself. This ability to self heal is built into both the micro and macro organism. One crackpot wrote the book 'celestine prophecies' and made a lot of money. But he had a very good realization. On a subtle energetic field people dominate each other or nature....or at least try. As the human becomes aware of its minds potential...it can be released from its delusion of being the controller of all it surveys. And instead awaken to deep sensitivity and full humanity. A cultivation of spirituality. Humane is a beautiful word. And until we awaken to the wonderful truth of 'one organism' of which we are, and its inter-action (even if this world is just shadow of a spiritual world), we may never be humane as a species. Man is not an animal as such, because of this quality of humanity, that can be exercised to a great degree. Beyond sect, beyond nation, beyond family...universal potential! It is very simple to see who has developed human sensitivity and who has not. A religionist with little humanity is a fanatic...a human without spirituality is selfish and a miser. Christ called us to be meek...and Lord Caitanya called us to be humble. Both said a great gift awaits such a person. Rather than use siddhis (psychic ability) to make money, hypnotise people, or other dominating stupidity etc (as many in India and around the world have done)...we should utilize the siddhi for awakening of human love and healing of the world. A golden age some may some. The animals live with such abilities (in accord with nature)...if humans abuse these gifts they are less than animal. Siddhi serves a purpose...cultivation of the kingdom of God. This is my spirituality bishadi. A part of my God consciousness. An Immanent God as well as Transcendent God is what I feel is truth. I am not just a so-called Hare Krsna presently. And cannot be boxed into a stereo-type. signing off...bija the crackpot. humane: marked or motivated by concern with the alleviation of suffering.

lol...whacky...yep...especially late at night:rolleyes:

Wise. Good to hear from you.

"Among so many great events, there is one phenomenon which, in the eyes of posterity, may well overshadow everything that has been discovered in radiation and electricity: the permanent entry into operation, in our day, of inter-human affinities - the movement, irresistible and ever increasing in speed, which we can see for ourselves, welding peoples and individuals to another..." Indian Ocean, March 1929, "The Sense of Man" in Toward the Future.Pierre Teilhard de Chardin "The day will come when, after harnessing space, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire." Peking, February 1934, "The Evolution of Chastity" in Toward the Future, London: Collins, 1975: 86-87.

Ofcourse. Vaisnavism to be known more in the world would be nice. In my town people sometimes ask what my spiritual practice is...when I say vaisnavism I always receive a blank look. These days even Hare Krsna gets a 'oh yes...whatever happened to them?'. Mostly I say hindu these days so at least they can get some idea. Sad really. Bye.

Now thats the truth....many of you have been raised in a profoundly deep tradition. Many in the west have no idea how profound. Good night Dark...its getting late...thx for the chat...I enjoyed it very much. Hari Hari!

I accept this...I was very fast asleep until I read Gita and met my vedic teacher and took the holy name. I awoke. It was the vedic knowledge/holy name that enlightened my heart to some degree. Grateful.

Well if this is true then my worship would be in the mode of ignorance. From both you prabhu's point of view.

I am not doing this. Here is my orginal post in this thread. There is actually much difference.

Very good. You are convincing me further. I wanted to know your feeling...thx.

I agree totally prabhu...his words are in line. I disagree on one point...Ia m not a christian firstly (even though I was born that way). I can still go in that church, and worship Sri Krsna. The congregation may not understand but it is possible. It is internal.....it has nothing to do with the external environment.

I am heading somewhere with the question. If a western born man followed your view of vaisnavism...would he be respected in your local community? With all due respect and vaisnava etiquette? Up until Srila Prabhupada's radical vision, many bengali's took a while to come around. In my local community we are broadening our vision in this regard. We have many sudanese people moving here. They are of both muslim and christian background. It takes time though for many to feel ok with it. I understand all you have said so far...and much of it is excellent. God is one still...and yes some of us may take several births to understand vedanta.

Yes...and some western devotees may have gnostic similarity. What is your definition of the word Vaisnava dark. Can you elaborate further about that word please? To exhibit humility most devotees in Gaudiya Vaisnavism will say they are 'aspiring vaisnavas'.

Gnostic gospels are considered heresy by most christian schools. The four gospels in the bible vary in some ways. The gospel of John seems to have similarity to buddhism in some subtle aspects. One wonders what connection the writers had to traditions of that time. Maybe the tradition did not really structure until Rome took charge.

Hey bishadi...missed you today. Where are you...lol:)

Amlesh is advising you to pray to Narayana...the husband of the goddess of fortune. Its a difficult road mate...we need to find a place in our heart of peace. When we do not look for results of our actions...the load seems to lighten. How to get to that kind of realization. It will take time and dedication. I wish I could help you Lost. Maybe some devotees here can open a discussion for you on how to find inner peace... Some here have good realization....keep bumping this thread to the top until some join in discussion maybe.