theist

"The six opulences listed are considered to be feminine. If a woman possesses all

of them or some of them she becomes glorious."

Glorious due to its being such a rare attainment?

Just asking.Not trying to stir anything up

No problems JNdasji,other then my speeling.But what time is it?

I appreciate Srila Prabhupada's broad minded statements as posted below.An excerpt from Conversations July 9,1975 Chicago

Om Sivaya Namah

---------

Devotee: Srila Prabhupäda, in Winnipeg there is one very pious east Indian man who for many years has been worshiping somewhat, worshiping Lord Siva. And his wife is also a very quite chaste woman and sincere follower—and so were her parents—of Lord Siva. And he is reading your Bhagavad-gétä. He visits our temple. And I have given him the first volume of Canto Four which discusses Lord Siva a great deal. And he has read in one of your purports that Krsna is more pleased when you worship His devotee than when you worship Him directly. And Lord Siva is a very great devotee of Krsna. So he has now interpreted that to mean that if he worships Lord Siva so nicely, then actually he is pleasing Krsna more. So he is experiencing some difficulty because of this and I’m not quite sure how to instruct him that actually...

Prabhupäda: Difficulty?

Brahmänanda: That... Our Godbrother has difficulty in replying to this interpretation that Krsna says, “You can please Me by worshiping My devotee,” and Lord Siva is the devotee of Krsna. So therefore this man says, “Then I shall worship Lord Siva. In that way I shall please Krsna.”

Prabhupäda: But if he accepts Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, then by worshiping Lord Siva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Siva is independent, then he will not be benefited.

Devotee (3): I’ve got him to accept that Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, but there’s no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.

Prabhupäda: No, vaiñëavänäm yathä çambhuù: “Amongst the Vaiñëavas, Çaàbhu, Lord Siva, is the greatest Vaiñëava.” So we worship Lord Siva as Vaisnava. We gives respect to Vaisnavas. So why not Lord Siva? Lord Siva is a big Vaisnava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Siva, they take Lord Siva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Siva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Siva. Krsna will be pleased.

Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupäda, he does not chant Hare Krsna, he chants om siväya namah.

Prabhupäda: That’s all right.

Devotee (3): It’s all right?

Prabhupäda: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Siva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.

Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Krsna. He has tried already. He has a taste for...

Prabhupäda: If he simply understands that Lord Siva is a Vaisnava and if he worships Lord Siva, then he will get the benefit.

----------------------

Hare Krsna

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 06-13-2002).]

ram,

So the atma has its bliss and the Lord His.But how is it experienced? Is it expandable or stagnant(as in steady state)?Is it shareable?That is if ananda is part of what constitutes the atma can that be given to the Lord, as in the giving of oneself to another?

I got the cd (11 min.) some time back and want to burn some copies to pass out.

I would like some advice on a good cd burner to buy for this.Please advise this non-techie on how to proceed.

I got other plans too.I want to ruin somebodies lunch.Thinking about taking a portable monitor and setting it up outside resteraunt windows to show the cd to people inside as they dine. From MacDonalds to 5 star joints.Should be fun.

Why should "harvesting" food bother anyone anyway?No one's stomach turns when watching a field of grain being harvested or a fruit tree being picked.

I'll watch my step and stay clear of the stool controversy.

But I can't help realize how the joke is on all of us that are so attached to these gross bodies.Eat and s_it, eat and s_it.My god.Time to trade up to a siddha-svarupa 'eh?

Originally posted by gHari:

Now I'm totally confused. Where did the elephant come from?

It's all been in deep code gHari.

But mad elephants are really scary.I've decided to walk for awhile and just let this caravan pass.

Originally posted by raga:

A rider with a horse & carriage knows he must go somewhere with the carriage.

Carriage does not insure he will go in the proper direction.He may turn left instead of right. The carriage may also give a false sense of security as he rides along in the wrond direction.

A rider with a horse without a carriage may go joyridin' just about anywhere, if he is not very strong.

 

True, he may mistake whimiscalicality(is this a word?) for spontaneaity.But the load in the carriage does not really insure against this.If fact a big load traveling recklessly can pose more dangers for those innocents that cross the carriages path.

 

The load of carriage keeps you on the road; a symbol of commitment, let us say.

 

Above.

 

I'm off to the store now without a carriage, but could use one.

 

 

Originally posted by raga:

And without carriage, horse may not know where to go.

The carriage is not the director.The rider may choose to ride on the horse without the carriage.

Giddiyup!!

What about python-yoga?

One thing about the USA is it is possible to set up smaller communities within the larger social structure.

If you have a group of people that want to live a communal life stlye you can do that.Within that group some will rise up as leaders and managers some workers and some will bring in more money.And somebody else will become recognized as wiser in ways spiritual.

As I see it it is just a question of working according to one's natural proclivities and then offering the fruits to Krsna, within a group setting.

It should be recognized however that if we can't do that on a small scale trying to force a huge govt. to do it is dreaming.

In this age it is often hard to live simply.A few will catch on but they are the exceptions I'm afraid.

They will anything for a buck.They kill millions of cows and other animals every month.

Their bill is astronomical.Sinful reactions on a cosmic scale.

I don't care if they set up a vegan salad bar in their lobby, they won't get a penny from me.

Now I hear they are contaminating India.Indians should protest them out of the country.Even if they avoid cow killing there they certainly are killing them everywhere else in the world.

Why does India need these low class places?Trade Indian food for that slop?No way.

Ten million is a drop in the bucket towards what these demons have coming to them.

--------

McDonald's fries cost $10M

Chain to pay vegetarians, Hindus for not disclosing it used

beef flavoring in French fries.

June 5, 2002: 5:43 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) -

McDonald's Corp. said it would pay

$10 million to Hindu, vegetarian and

other groups more than a year after

a Seattle lawyer sued the fast-food

chain, alleging it failed to disclose the

use of beef flavoring in its French

fries.

The disclosure of the payment and an apology was made in a

June 1 press release.

The world's largest restaurant chain said

it "sincerely apologizes to Hindus,

vegetarians and others" for improperly

describing its fries and hash browns sold

in the United States as vegetarian.

The company began calling the products vegetarian after it

began using vegetable oil to help reduce cholesterol in the

early 1990s, but the fries and hash browns themselves

contain a small amount of beef flavoring added during potato

processing at plants.

Check food and beverage stocks here

"We regret we did not provide these customers with complete

information, and we sincerely apologize for any hardship that

these miscommunications have caused," the release said.

McDonald's payment and apology are part of a wider

settlement of five class-action lawsuits charging that the

company had misled consumers by wrongly describing its

French fries as vegetarian.

The settlement is in line with the terms of a draft agreement

reached in March, but McDonald's said at the time that it was

premature to comment about a possible deal.

The chain also said it has created an advisory panel on

vegetarian and other dietary practices as part of the

settlement. The group, including experts in consumer dietary

practices, plans to advise McDonald's on relevant dietary

restrictions and guidelines.

McDonald's first apologized for

"confusion" about beef

flavoring used in the fries in

May 2001 after Seattle lawyer

Harish Bharti sued the

company, accusing the chain

of deception in its claims of

cooking fries in 100 percent vegetable oil.

At the time, company officials disclosed the small amounts of

beef flavoring used in the fries and hash browns.

Oak Brook, Ill.-based McDonald's said it was not required by

the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to reveal the use of

beef flavoring, and that it didn't use the substance in fries

sold at restaurants in India or predominantly Hindu countries.

Hindus abstain from beef for religious reasons.

The lawsuit by Bharti, a practicing Hindu, came just a month

after McDonald's said its first-quarter profit fell 16 percent,

hurt by concerns about the safety of the beef in its

hamburgers during a scare that mad cow disease had entered

the United States.

Originally posted by Rati:

It was not actually meant as a criticism. Even if he is right (and I have not reason to believe he is not), it is a question of what is accomplished in actuality by such an approach. There is such a thing as diplomacy. My point is that preachers might want to develop some to add a little panache to their lectures and dialogues.

Panache? Oh god.I need an icon that shows someone holding their nose but can't find one.

Thumbs down on this one Rati.

Originally posted by Rati:

 

 

What some of us here are attempting to do is open up some dialogue between rival factions with a vision of unity. That has unfortunately proven to be a formidable undertaking.

 

 

I wonder if part of the problem doesn't stem from identifying with a faction in the first place.

Rati,

I really don't understand your criticisms.Please, what is your point again?

Prabhupäda: No. There is perfection everywhere in the spiritual world, but it is a question of variety, taste. When you take rasagullä, don’t take kachori, that does not mean kachori is not perfect. It is a question of taste. Somebody likes kachori, somebody likes rasagullä. Not that kachori is inferior to rasagullä; rasagullä is inferior to kachori.

Haàsadüta: So that means if someone is situated in that svarüpa...

Prabhupäda: Yes. Everything is svarüpa. Everything is svarüpa.

Haàsadüta: Suppose someone is situated as Viñëudüta. He may change his taste.

Prabhupäda: Why he shall change it?

Haàsadüta: He may get a taste for associating with Kåñëa.

Prabhupäda: The change is taking place in this material world. There all tastes are fixed up, rasa, eternal, eternal rasa. Every one of us has a different taste of associating with Kåñëa, and that will be realized when one is liberated.

Haàsadüta: So that’s fixed already.

Prabhupäda: Yes. When you are liberated, you will understand in which way you are related with Kåñëa. That is called svarüpa-siddhi. But that is attained when you are actually perfect in devotional service. Just like in our family, we enjoy different rasas. We have got one kind of relationship with wife, one kind of relationship with sons and daughters, one kind of relation with friends, one kind of relationship with servants, one kind of relationship with property. So similarly, Kåñëa... The whole creation is His family, and He has got relationship in that way. So why the son will change his relationship into husband and wife?

Haàsadüta: I see.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Because every relationship is very palatable. The gentleman, the head of the family, his relationship with wife and his relationship with servant is as much palatable. Maybe some degradation, but it is palatable. There is no question of changing. Not that “I am tasting this rasa at the present moment. Then I will get better rasas.” No, that is not. Everyone thinks, “My rasa is the best.” Although there is comparative gradation, but everyone thinks. These things are explained in Caitanya-caritämåta. Why don’t you see?

Haàsadüta: And Nectar of Devotion.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Everyone thinks, “My relationship with Kåñëa is the best.”

Haàsadüta: So it’s not a matter of aspiring to some...

Prabhupäda: No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationship with Kåñëa. Even the trees in Våndävana, they want to serve Kåñëa silently in that way, supplying fruits and flowers. That is their änanda, everyone enjoying the supreme bliss. When Kåñëa comes, takes a flower or fruit, that is their enjoyment: “Oh...”

Revaténandana: When Kåñëa doesn’t come, then they are feeling separation?

Prabhupäda: Yes, certainly. That is another bliss, to feel separation from Kåñëa.

Way out my depth grade here.I'm much more comfortable in shallow water.

Found this though.

Upendra: Swamiji, if our rasa with Krsna is eternal, and we want to have the rasa of lover with Krsna, is it possible to change? If our rasa is like father to son, we can never become lover?

Prabhupäda: No. You have got eternal relationship with Krsna. That cannot be changed. You’re constitutionally in position, in a certain position. Either you have got... But every relationship is spiritual and nice. If you have got that inclination that you want to be Krsna’s lover, then that means originally you are already in relationship with Kåñëa in that stage. That will be revealed when you are in perfectional devotional stage.

No that is not what I meant by disatisfaction not being an impetus for change.There can be other impetus for change which our minds can't yet conceive of.

But let's step down a notch.One can change from awe and reverence into a more intimate mood right?

So that's where they got it from eh.Not only do they want to spread their polite, get along ways, they think everybody should get healthcare.Crazy eh?

Originally posted by raga:

Imagine if one day Krishna and the boys came to his friend's house to take him along to herd the cows, and the friend would inform Krishna of his decision to shift over to gopi bhava because he wasn't satisfied with his friendship.

Why would the shift have to be motivated by disatisfaction?

We switch from one attempt at enjoyment to another based on acceptance then rejection but isn't that the definition of a materialy conditioned mind.If so then surely we can't impose it on the spiritual state.

I have no knowledge on the question at hand but just question the reasoning raga.

Pratyatosa,

Why do you think you need animal fat vs. fats of vegetable origen.

The cows don't seem to need animal fat past calvehood.Why do humans?

"When Satan stepped out from the Garden of Eden after the fall of man, Garlick sprang up from the spot where he placed his left foot, and Onion from that where his right foot touched". Such is the legend some herbalists attributed to the Mohammedans.

Is there a Puranic counterpart to this myth?

We will see what we want to see in that picture.

But I'm sure we are all amazed at how She cares for Her loving devotees, always desiring to shelter them.

Jai Radhe!