theist

Brishni and Leelasukhi (that's how Srila Prabhupada spelled it) are indeed still married. I spoke with them earlier this year. He's teaching at a community college in some God-forsaken place in California. I can't remember where right now. (But they still have their house outside Portland, Oregon.) They're not practicing Krishna consciousness so much any more, but they're solid people.

Not practicing so much. I am very sad to hear that. But that is temporary. They will become reengergized. Such nice open people.

The only thing weird about us is that we're from the Big Island. And probably that I won't be here much longer.

 

LOL. Yeah you know other similar couples but from the world I have lived in all such couples are like Big Islands, rare and solid. I'm now thinking of Brsni and Lila suki (was that her name?). Hope they are stil together and doing well.

Srila Prabhupada notes that whatever level of yogic advancement one achieves, he is known by that process. Hence, some are referred to as karma-yogis, some jnana-yogis, others astanga-yogis or dhyana-yogis (Paramatma-vadis), and some bhakti-yogis.

 

The Absolute Truth is realized in three aspects: Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan [SB 1.2.11]. Each level corresponds respectively to the actualzation of the jiva's true sat, cit and ananda nature.

 

Although transcendental Himself, Paramatma manifests only within the material worlds of the mahat-tattvas. God directly is the Lord of the spiritual world. So while the yogi follows caitya-guru Paramatma, he has yet to reach the end of his training. And the goal of all yogic processes is the absolute surrender to Sri Krsna. That is the sadhaka, the devotee, the vaishnava. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. [BG 7.19]

gHari,

What is the fate of a Paramatma realized yogi that leaves his body in that consciousness. He was gone past Brahman realization but not yet reached Bhagavan realization and solidified his place in the variegated Spiritual Sky?

More of this crap. Hey melvin masturbastion is a solitary act so leave us out of it all right. You are stating to sound like one of those characters who makes obscene phone calls to strangers.

Sorry Babhru I got the wrong impression. My bad.

On the Big Island, I led a study group focusing on The Nectar of Devotion the last couple of years I was there. It was quite a wonderful experience. The only reason I stopped was that I left. And I haven't gotten anything like that going here because I've never intended to be here for very long. (Can't believe I'm still here.)

Yeah this is how I picture you and your wife. One of those solid and steady senior householder couples whose home is a natural temple. You know the village brahmana.

You know realist their are many on this board who view Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and even their disciples as their own gurus both diksa and siksa and it is really offensive of you to come in the midst of them are stones towards their teachers. It even offends me who has no particular allegiance to any one teacher. I see it simply as offending friends of God.

You are not fooloing anyone here into believing you are a "100% Prabhupada Man" by criticizing his Godbrothers. We here have all seen through that thin smokescreen of long long ago. You want to be a Prabhupada man. Then love Krsna. Serve Krsna. Give Krsna to others.

Let us see if you can inspire as many as Sridhar Maharaja has done. Or Naranyan Maharaja or any of hundred other disciples in lines we are not familar with.

But you don't seem interested in thast relly or you wouldn't spend time seeking out and baiting others with posts that are designed only to inflame and disturb others who are not in your group.

Yeah I know I am a real loud mouth but I can't taske this crap and remain silent. Some years back I was taking lunch at the local iskcon temple where it was my custom to to go and chant some japa. All was nice until a group of people started critcizing and ridiculing Naranyan Maharaja. I spoke up and they shut up. I wasn't about to leave my prasad unfinished. no was I willing to let myself get poisoned through my ears.

EVERYONE PLEASE STOP ALL OF THIS CRITICISM OF OTHER DEVOTEES,OTHER THEISTS AND EVEN OTHER SPIRITUALISTS FROM VARIOUS SCHOOLS.

Even out and out frauds who are open to such criticism don't serve so much attention.

That's exactly what some of them are saying explicitly. A few years ago, on the occasion of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's tirobhava, I heard a lecture from an ISKCON leader--sannyasi, GBC member, and "initiating guru"--say explicitly that Srila Prabhupada was the only true disciple of Srila Sarasvati Thakura, and that all his other disciples (and that's the word he used: all) became Mayavadis and sahajiyas. His lecture was roundly applauded. I couldn't get out of the room and away from that place fast enough.

I keep wondering why, after all this time and experience,you keep putting yourself in that position in the first place Babhru? I see you as someone who should be giving lectures, developing and leading study courses different aspects of Krsna conscious shastra etc. quite independently of Iskcon or any other matha or scene. Not hearing the same old Iskcon line that you have seen beyond decades ago.

It's puzzling. Old friendships maybe?

Such a complex topic which even Babaji avoids answering directly, yet we will risk all for our fancy in ridiculing our good brothers. Such humility will not stand in front of Lord Sri Krsna. This is not the cleverness of a wise man.

As males age the testosterone level falls and the estrogen level rises. This is the actual cause of prostae problems, not too much testosterone but too little and too much estrogen. This is also the cause of much of the symptoms of old age in males.

People are now starting to understand the value of keeping one's hormonal balance at youthful levels. Either through natural means with herbs etc. or through testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

The female body experiences menopause and the male suffers through andropause. Low test levels does not equal some kind of piety it just means poor health.

So, I have a soft spot in my heart for the so-called Mayavadis. Dr. Mishra and his disciples are beautiful souls.

 

Yes, the so-called mayavadi is just as much a part of Krsna as a vaisnava so a vaisnava will naturally love them also and appreciate their good qualities while at the same time remaing distant and not hearing from them because of their contracting the disease of impersonalism. It is a self defense measure and not based on hatred.

I heard in the early seventies that Srila Prabhupada remarked that Sri Yukteswar (Paramahansa Yogananda's guru) was a "beautiful soul."

Want to get rid of your karma. That is just like the Christians who approach Jesus Christ to dump their sinful reactions onto him. This is not why one should approach guru. It is a by-product of following his instructions and associating with his sound vibration. By doing so the dirty heart will be cleansed from one side and by following his instructions one will not create more.

Don't go seeking the perfect initiation ceremony that promises to take your karma away. It doesn't really work like that.

Well the thread had for the most part a nice flavor. I don't think it speaks very well of us here that we can't stay focused on a krsna consacious subject for more than a few posts before we allow it to denigrate.

But now that it has I'll take my shot. I think Guruvani has done suprisely well for someone who got intiated in 1975 and then stayed in Iskcon until 82 or 83 kowtowing to the 11 frauds who stole Prabhupada's istitutiton. We are happy you finally woke up prabhu.

C'mon gentlemen, not every word contains a transliteration that employs every possible equivilant meaning.

"

When we eat something, we taste its rasa, the juice. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [bg. 7.8]. Just like Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita, "Kaunteya, My dear Arjuna, I am the taste of the water." Everyone, when he's thirsty, he wants, "Give me water, give me water." Because there is a taste in the water which will immediately quench your thirst. So we enjoy everything because there is some taste. That is called rasa. Anything we do. Just like a man, he's working very hard day and night. What for? For maintaining his family, his children and wife. So unless there is some rasa, some taste, he cannot work so hard day and night. There is some flavor in maintaining the family with hard labor. And sometimes we see therefore one who has no family, one who has no family affection, he does not work so hard. He doesn't care to work. This is practical. Therefore in the Vedic civilization the family life is recommended unless one will become confused, hopeless, because he has no taste for the family life. So everything there is some rasa, taste. Without that taste, nobody can live.Lecture 1.1.3

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śamo man-niṣṭhatā buddher

iti śrī-bhagavad-vacaḥ

tan-niṣṭhā durghaṭā buddher

etāḿ śānta-ratiḿ vinā

 

SYNONYMS

śamaḥ — equality or neutrality; mat-niṣṭhatā — being fixed in My lotus feet; buddheḥ — of the intelligence; iti — thus; śrī-bhagavat-vacaḥ — words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; tat-niṣṭhā — attachment or attraction for Him; durghaṭā — very difficult to achieve; buddheḥ — of intelligence; etām — thus; śānta-ratim — attachment on the platform of śānta-rasa; vinā — without.

 

 

TRANSLATION

"'These are the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead: "When one's intelligence is fully attached to My lotus feet but one does not render practical service, one has attained the stage called śānta-rati, or śama." Without śānta-rati, attachment to Kṛṣṇa is very difficult to achieve.'

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YES! This is why I have often said santa platform is the only goal I can hope to develop any attraction for. The rest, the so-called devotional service, is really just sukriti accumulation as far as I am concerned. Valuable but not really devotional service.

How can we offer pure unmotivated service when we ourselves have unfullfilled desires tainting our every move?

Santa is the Island of peace where clear thiinking can take place and real attraction can develop. It is from this place that the other rasa's can unfold from within us according to our attraction.

It is my belief also that this understanding is the way to avoid becoming sahaji's running around imitating madhurya rasa and pretending to be manjari's etc, when they are not even liberated.

All glories to the sanctuary state of santa-rasa!

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Santa rasa is perhaps mis-named as a rasa, because in the definition of rasa, there is a very clear indication that there is a RECIPROCAL PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.

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<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Yes, definitely; There are four "active" rasas and santa is not included. But there are myriad ways of looking at all these concepts.

 

Yes and here is another angle. There is a redciprocation of relationship although it can be passive vs. active. Krsna is allowing the santa-bhakta to appreciate His beauty and other marvelous qualities, That is His offering to the bhakta. The santa bhakta is offering his appreciation of Krsna to Krsna by uabsorbing his consciousness in thoughts and realizations of Krsna and appreciating His splendour.

Passive reciprocation? I think so.

Hare Krsna

 

In that Nectar of Devotion verse he was decribing a state called santa-rati. In my opinion, this is not a rasa.

 

That is why the bolded and red type words read as they are.

 

The concept of the stage between personalism and impersonalism may also be looked at from the point of view of the process of moving from impersonalism to personalism, in stages, and the stage just before the understanding of the personal individuality of Sri Bhagavan is considered a neutral stage between the two conceptions.

Santa-rati. I was just speculating this idea. Should have read your post first although it was good excercise. Sounds like you have the answer. My brain is running out of prana for tonight however and I'll have to finish your post in the morning.

Sleep is death. 1/3 of our lives is past in sleeping. How strange indeed.

Maybe, but, if Brahman is undifferentiated consciousness, then how can there be innumerable planets contained within it? Seems inconceivable.

Why? The Brahman is Krsna's aura. It is unlimited. Godhead is light. Nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience. Everything is within the Brahman at all times. Our consciousness appears to be outside of the bramajyoti only because due to the material identification covering our spirtitual vision we are blind. Right this moment we are situated in an unlimited sea of light.

This is true if you are in Goloka consciousness or Vaikuntha consciousness or Brahman realization or a worm in stool. The worm in stool doesn't get it. The Brahman realized has lost himself in the light and the rest are Vaisnavas rightly situated.

On "One side of the Brahman" the material nature is produced from the Brahman. On the "other side of the Brahman" it is the basic atmosphere of all existence.

What else could be there? No space as we know it. No void. The spiritual world is substantive. Only Brahman is substance.

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The Paramātmā manifestation is also a temporary all-pervasive aspect of the Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. The Paramātmā manifestation is not eternal in the spiritual world.

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Very interesting!!

 

This is along the lines of something Mathuranath Prabhu was saying up at the Seva Ashram during CC class on Friday prior to Gayatri initiations.

 

I thought he must be mistaken, but, now I see it is my own understanding which is very (very, very, very) incomplete.

 

This I have understood but it never occured to me before to ask what the destination of a Paramatma-vadi is. It seems too incomplete for Vaikuntha yet already past sayuja or brahman realization.

Anybody know?

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Very subtle and a bit confusing for me.

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Bhaktivedanta confusing?

Welcome to the club.

I guess that is what happens when you try preach to the lowest class of people and the highest class at that same time?

Confusion!

Both groups get confused.

 

I am not so willing to dismiss the statement just because it sounds contradictory to me. We tend to want to see everything in nice little orderly categories that fit into our mental conditioning. Impersonalist or personalist. One or the other. Yet I can kind of see how one could accept the personal conception and still due to one's past be more drawn to the Brahman even while Paramatma realization is begining to dawn.

There are transitions in consciousness and they are more real then strict categories. But they are more subtle and had to envision or name. Am example is the stage we are all in now. "Mixed devotees". We are transitioning from material to spiritual consciousness but speaking for myself my vision and desires are still very material even though I can mark some improvement over the years.

We shall see in due time.

The śānta-rati realization of Kṛṣṇa is in the neutral stage between the conception of impersonalism and personalism. This means that one is not very strongly attached to the personal feature of the Lord. An appreciation of the greatness of the Lord is called śānta-rati. This is attachment not to the personal feature but to the impersonal feature. Generally, one in this stage is attached to the Paramātmā feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

The bold text and the red text give a different picture from one another.

The first sentence describes a neutral position between impersonalism and personalism.

Very subtle and a bit confusing for me.

Nice explanation Mahak. Thank you.

I wonder what the destination of the Paramatma-vadi would be should he leave his body in that consciousness?

pranams

Srila Prabhupada seems to make a distinction between "Paramatma-Vadis" and "devotees" in the introduction to Srimad Bhagavad-Gita.

 

 

http://vedabase.net/bg/introduction/en

 

 

 

Also, it's interesting to note that Srila Prabhupada seems to be equating the "brahmajyoti" with "spiritual sky".

He is referring to those that stop at a certain level without realizing the whole. I would like to learn more about what is the realization of a Paramatma-vadi. It is rather vague in my mind. Surely realizing the Supreme Person residing in one's heart is devotional. But perhaps a paramatma-vadi only realizes a certain aspect of His presence. Interesting question.

Of course brahmajyoti is the spiritual sky. If you think about it what else could it be? We are just not used to the term being used in this way very often so it catches us off guard.

Soccer, volleyball, baseball (not cricket though, sorry too weird) and simple physical sports like them are good for kids and yes I even mean devotees kids. Not every child is going to be Prahlada. Good excercise and it's good practice on how to stay balanced between victory and defeat.

Do thou fight for the sake of fighting, without considering happiness or distress, loss or gain, victory or defeat—and by so doing you shall never incur sin. BG 2.38

Looks like the non-Vaishnavas are gradually becoming the better preachers when it comes to vegetarianism.

Oh for sure. This has always been the case as far as I can tell. Most vaisnavas still drink commercial milk thus DIRECTLY contributing to the slaughter of calves and cows.

Well clearly you do not understand the opposing position. The soul coming into the material world does not mean that the soul has to travel some distance measureable in earthly miles or something to arrive here. The soul travels by projection of consciousness. Exactly like in a dream the form is in one place while the consciousness of the dreamer has so many experiences seemingly distant from the form.

 

Material time and space are products of the material world. So how does the soul travel distance to reach the material world. Trying to understand the specifics of the transcendental world by intellect is impossible.

 

Anyway I am perfectly fine with people not agreeing on these points. Whatever our origin we are now in a dreaming condition.

 

I am simply requesting that the childish mocking of your opponents stop. That is all.

IOW's I am out of the loop when it comes to speculating on origins.