theist

I once asked a respected Godbrother about the shastric basis of Ekadasi and he referred to it as a supersition that has some basis in Vedic lore.

 

Ever since then I sometimes refer to it as a superstition because an outsider who hears that all the sins of the world enter into grains and beans on the 11th day of the waxing and waning Moon would think it was a Hindu superstition.

 

I don't see anything particularly wrong in referring to it as a supersition because it contains some bizarre claims that ordinary people would consider as superstition.

 

Anything that cannot be verified empirically can be referred to as supersition because it is beyond verification with anything other than Vedic lore and legend.

 

If it can be proven emprically then we can remove it from the classification as superstitition.

 

Belief is supersition.

Even the Supersoul is superstition because we really cannot prove His existence beyond faith and belief.

I never heard that all the worlds sins enter into beans and grains at those times. Based on that superstiton works for me. Like foam containing all the sins etc. Or some cows blood entering the earth and becoming beets and carrots etc. Some devotees apparently won't eat carrots because they see it as eating a cow. I mean c'mon folks.

Would never use the word to apply to Supersoul though. He is readily appreciable through intelligence.

What I don't get, is if one can fall down from Goloka Vrndavana then the same argument against practicing impersonal jnani yoga can be leveled against bhakti yoga. - that is one can fall down. (regardless of why).

On the other, there is something really arbitrary about how some jivas just happen to be eternally situated with Krsna and others are not.

The fall down of the impersonalists from the brahmajyoti is actually a good thing. It allows an oppurtunity for further development into personalism.

Yes it is the arbitrary nature of some jivas starting out as nitya siddha and others as nitya baddha that disturbs me and I don't accept it.

On the other hand the idea of souls being placed into certain rasa's from the beginning also raises questions like, why doesn't the rasa unfold according to the desire of the individual, from within the individual. I think it should.

So there are questions for both camps that I never hear addressed and so I just don't try to formulate an answer to the question. I may lean more one way than the other but so what? My leaning has no value. I do think debating the topic ad nauseum is absurd.

I can always tell when it is Ekadasi because I always have bad dreams on Ekadasi because I don't generally observe it.

But, I do believe in Ekadasi because the nightmares I have on Ekadasi are regular and consistent if I fail to observe it.

 

I can have some terrible nightmares on Ekadasi.

This itself is proof to me that the superstition is very real.

 

I am a believer, but not a very good follower.

Superstion? These practices are grounded in something more than that I think but I am not sure what. I am just curious if anyone remembers of if it now is just a tradition that no one knows the genesis of.

You get nightmares. I have been on a more or less grain free diet all my adult life and never thought about grains but on ekadasi I would notice an unusual desire to eat grains would appear in my mind. Although I wasn't trying to follow it I could almost tell when it was ekadasi because of this craving. Weird but it happen so frequently I couldn't deny the connection.

I always especially appreciated the temple on ekadasi because everyone would chant extra rounds and being there I would get caught up in that mood.

Here is a very instructive narration from the pastimes of Mahaprabhu that exemplify how simple and practical initiation into Hari-nama can be.

Please note that Srila Prabhupada refers to the chanting of Hare Krishna into the ears of the Buddhist spiritual master by HIS DISCIPLES after hearing instructions from Mahaprabhu as INITIATION.

 

 

 

 

This example is really what the Sankirtan movement is all about.

It is very simple, sublime and effective.

Great example. "Simple, sublime and effective."

Thanks for the nice post and compilitions of quotes Alex. We hear the word initiation and diksa used in various ways with the maha mantra getting ixed up with some gayatri mantra. My mind has been so much more peaceful since I decided that only one defintion of diksa would have any relevance for me and that is the one given by Jiva Gosvami and often quoted by Srila Prabhupada.

Hare Krsna

You may not like this answer but I observe Ekadashi fast because I enjoy going without food and water:) (of course for only one day;)).

Moreover, it is a good way of making sure that I do not become overweight.

I also like to be free from the uncumberances of food. Although I've become diabetic in the last few years and now never fast I still never eat whar others call a full meal, I just graze along on very small but frequent "meals". Always been like that but with diabetes keeping the blood sugar even is my prime concern.

I was hoping that more people who follow for religious or spiritual reasons would answer.

Beyond redirecting the time from eating into more heaing and chantingI have never been able to understand any spiritual value in the practice especially when it comes to avoiding a food like tomateos for example.

Anyway it is a healthy thing although maybe not going without water.

Yes, you were initiated by the devotee LEADING the first kirtana you attended. No that wasnt alan ginzburgh, Ramm Dass or Quicksilver Messenger Service. The leader of that Kirtana was Lord Nityananda Prabhu. Kirtana takes place at His leadership, authority of the Holy Name is in His Hands.

 

Then He also caused one to find out more about the wonders of Samkirtana, and next thing you knew, you were eating good food talking to a way cool person.

 

Initiation means first, initial. Lord Nityananda is the one in the heart of all beings who opens such a door, if one wants such a thing as a door.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

I like this answer. And the initiation into that name may be in shadow form as we experience it but the potency is there immediately to raise us up to the pure name if we are so willing.

Then again hearing a suddha bhakta chanting suddha nama is on a level of it's own. It seems that can be viewed as another and higher level of the PROCESS of initiation which we experience on the path to yet another level where we hear the maha mantra from a suddha bhakta in full recognition of what is suddha nama because our ears have finally become purified.

Then we can look at this pure stage as both a final culmination of the intiation process that began when we first heard that kirtan and it can also be seen as finally having been initiated n the true sense of the word into the transcendental world where a whole eternity of transcendental experiences lay ahead.

This full sense initiation or birth into spiritual life is simulataneously the death of the last vesitige of mundane consciousness.

"Must die to live.Ye must be born again of the Holy Spirit"

So in this sense I agree intiation into the Holy name is absolutely essential.

Just curious as to peoples motivations in following ekadasi? What benefit do you derive from it and what do you think the purpose of ekadasi is?

.

Wow! Fasting looks safer. Tomatoes and honey - I never would have guessed. I just thought it was grains and beans.

Narayan Maharaja has his group avoiding a lot of foods like Srila Prabupada never did.

Personally I don't follow ekadasi so I am no authority but it's just something I have noticed.

I don't buy honey but for different reasons.

I hope it is not being implied that Srila Prabhupada didn't know that there are greedy capitalists behind the machines. I am sure he knows full well that there are persons behind all mechanical arrangements including the body and the universe as well as the factories of mass production.

This is a good time to bring up a wonderful book that the newer generation may not have heard of. Small Is Beautiful by EF Schumacher- subtitled Economics as if People Mattered.

As humans we need to work and be occupied just for ordinary worldly health and sanity. The problem arises when work is meaningless and dull or dehumanizing like in these horrible factiories. Plus over working. The people become depressed and morose and seek escapes like drugs and Hyno-vision (TV) which is just a symptom of seeking annihilation like voidism and impersonalism if we trace it back a little deeper.

Without work that is compatible to human nature and further tailored to each humans worldly sva-dharma as dictated by how the three modes are mixed no one will feel happy in their work.

And further without an understanding of karma-yoga and the basic principles of human life as enuciated in Sri Isopanishad the sick desire of over accumulation of material objects can infect the mind which we see today. Yes sick, as I view those who need to have more and more wealth even as their brothers and sisters are dying around them for want of the basics to be living in a highly pathological state.

The excessively rich call out of us a special kind of pity and compassion if we can get beyond our own envy of them. They are really trapped. "It is very difficult for the rich man to inherit the Kingdom of God."

Prabhupada's formula - "Simple living and high thinking."

Not trying to rain on any ones parade.Please forgive me.The purport speaks for itself. As long as the friendship and association helps us to advance in KC.

This is the idea. The purport did speak for itself. Alex's quotes were valuable too. It is just the use of the word friendship being used slightly differently I think.

I have been "friends" with many several "devotees" that I wish I had never met. I am sure they feel the same about me. Not because I didn't like them or we didn't get along, actually quite the opposite. It because we also brought out the same bad habits in each other like smoking ganja that were detrimental to advancement in Krsna consciousness along with chanting on beads kirtan,eating prasada and even distributing books that were conducive to Krsna consciousness.

I call this mixed friendship. Just like until a devotee is purified he is a mixed devotee. When on the plane of suddha bhakti however he is Vaisnava in the truest sense.

Same principle. There is purified friendship which is inherent in the suddha-bhakta and then there is mixed friendship which is found in different degrees or mixtures in the beginning and intermediate aspirants.

Prabhupada: "Now this machine, this machine nonsense means unemployment. One machine will work for hundred men. So hundred men becomes unemployed, and one technician, he gets all the salaries. To work on the computer, com…

 

Devotee: Computer, yes.

 

Prabhupada: Machine. And he’s very expert. He’ll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking: “Advancement of civilization.” Advancement of civilization means “Exploit others and you become happy.” This is advancement of civilization. “Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car.” That’s all. This is advancement of civilization. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is Vedic civilization. “Let everyone be happy.” That is Vedic civilization. And the demonic civilization, they’re: “Let everyone suffer; I become happy. That’s all.” And Vaisnava is thinking, “For my salvation it is already guaranteed.” But he is thinking, “How these poor people will be saved?” Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [sB 7.9.43]. Prahlāda Mahārāja. This is Vaisnava’s position. Para-duhkha-duhkhī. He’s unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For himself, he has no unhappiness. Para-duhkha-duhkhī. Krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye. This is Vaisnava philosophy. Vaisnava shall work hard, undergo all tribulation, for others. He has no problem. A Vaisnava has no problem. Because he has taken shelter of Krsna, he has no problem. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. Krsna also gives guarantee, “Anyone who has taken shelter of My…, he is saved. I will give him protection.”

 

Morning Walk Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

March 15, 1974, Vṛndāvana

 

We have been discussing friendship on another thread. Here is Friendship, The Vaisnava as described above. Prabhupada was/is certainly the prime example of what a friend is. How tirelessly he labored for us suffering souls.

Happy touring.

Yeah Mahak, we have learned to let the ahankara's slide and keep only that which furthers us on towards our common goal. We, everyone, every jiva, has been woven inseparately of the same fabic, the same being, Krsna, since before time.

Beyond the dazzling array of birth and death, gods and demons, sinners and saints, animal, human, angel whatever, there is only One God, One Family.

Equal vision is to be strived for.

BTW what is all this talk of no more posting? If something better causes you to move on then go with God but if it's just frustration then I would say hang on we will all grow past our present immature stage, why not grow together?

If friendship is the topic then the topic is again Krsna consciousness because there are no solid non-disappointing friendship in this realm of exploitation. When we get free from the desire to exploit others and serve krsna and others then we will know what it is to be someones friend and to receive friendship.

Until that point why expect much from others especially when we are unwilling to give it ourselves?

Friendship is another transcendental experience. Friendship in this world is only a perverted reflection of the real thing. We are practicing friendship just like we are practicing devotion.

Important thing is to not let disappointments in others cause us to experience anger and hold resentments.

Hello everyone. Just joined today. I've been about 35 years in the spiritual line and thought I could contribute something to this thread. Before I proceed however, could I ask if this forum is exclusively for Hare Krishna devotees? I ask this because I notice almost everyone signing out with ' Hare Krishna.' I did not check carefull when I joined, and thought this forum was for people who follow the Hindu way of life. I'll write again after I receive a reply for this query.

Regards

Hare Krsna and welcome vpnathan,

This forum does contain a predominance of Hare krsna's fallen Hare Krsna's and wannabe Hare Krsna's like myself. It is not exclusive though we just seem to have congregated here.

If you are more comfortable discussing some aspect of Hinduism then I suggest you click on the Audarya Fellowship link at the top of the page, scroll down and you will find a wide variety of other forums which are more Hindu centered.

Take a little time, look around and settle in where you feel most comfortable.

Prabhupada would sometimes give a hint, like once commenting about Americans fighting against Russians, he said, that by thinking that the Russians are our enemies we think of Russians and thus become born as Russian. This Russian thinks that the Americans are his enemies and by thinking of the Americans he becomes an American. In this way he transmigrates back and forth, American, Russian, American, Russian.

Then Prabhubhupada says, this is maya. Nowadays of course the cold war is over but new concepts of what is an enemy are created and people start to actually think of this. If they would know how this thinking determines the future birth, but this is with no way taken into account. It seems that conditioned souls have no foreboding how their present way of thinking and acting creates and determines their future living condition.

Yes this is an essential point. First a thing is manifested in the mind. Then depending on how much energy we invest in it we can make it manifest in this denser world. This happens rather we consciously do it or not. As I understand it this is the principle of how people change genders also.

There is an old saying and I think a true one that you become what you hate. This is a big trap that self righteous moralists fall into. Like there is this group of about 15 -20 so-called Christians thatare led by some "pastor" and travel around to wherever homosexuals are having some public function and they hold signs up which read "God Hates FaggotsFaggots Will Rot In Hell" etc. And they shout these things at the homosex people with great venom and verocity, contorting their faces as they scream out. You may have seen them on the news. They are rather infamous.

Now what is their life experience. They are merged in the homosexual lifestyle in a sense because they spend so much time tracking what they are up to,where they will be and what they will say to them when they meet them next. By aversion they are solidly attached to to the homosexuals. It would be interesting to track this clan (largely family members) to see how many of them make the pyschological switch and become what they obviously hate.

One can hate the sin but he must love the sinner. After all no person is a homosexual or murderer or drug addict. These are all just behaviors. The soul is not doing these things so who is there to hate or try to emmulate?

A transcendentalist needs to keep his mind from such attraction and aversions. This is the beauty of sadhana bhakti because the same principle works towards the transformation of us moths into butterflies. By bowing down before the Lord and performing so many other serving actions we start to become what we think ourselves to be...devotees.

The danger is if our body bows down and our mind is off wandering somewhere else we won't get the effect. I call it sleepwalking sadhana. Everything is centered around the transformation of the mind so we must be mindful.

In Greek mythology, Pandora was the first woman. Each god helped create her by giving her unique gifts. Zeus ordered her creation as a punishment for mankind, in retaliation for Prometheus' having stolen fire and then giving it to humans for their use. She is most famous for carrying a jar (pithos) (or box) containing all the world's evils. She releases these evils, but closes the lid before Hope can escape.

Arrrrrgh yet again.

Desire or deserve?

Well there is that verse from Sri Isopanishad where Krsna is described has awrded everyone's desire since time immemorial. So He fulfills desires. But there are natural reactions to whatever we do also whcih interfer with our gettign what we desire and instead we get what we deserve. I may desire to steal something, get caught in the prosess and end up in the monkey house which I deserve for trying to steal. I see a undecipherable entwining of desiring and deserving at play.

The details of karmic reactions will always be beyond or ability to figure it all out but the conclusion is very simple. Desires are very difficult to fullfilled within the the reactionary field and even when they are fulfilled they won't satisfy the self anyway.

Arrrgh...!!! No thanks I won't risk hitting that You Tube start button and listening to what may come out. Remember Pandora's box.

Supercow your question shows you are thinking too hard. Just relax be yourself and start a topic like you would a normal conversation. I started getting brain pain just reading the first one and trying to figure out what you were talking about.

Prabhupada's english. I just love this. Thank God Jayadvaita hasn't touched it.....YET???

Prabhupada: You have seen football playing. The football has no place. As soon as comes, somebody’s feet, he kicks. He goes to another body. He kicks. He’s another body—kicking. His only situation is being kicked, football. So we are just like football. We are being kicked up. Now I am American. Next time I shall be kicked up to China. Maybe. And from China, I will be kicked up to India. And from India, I shall be kicked up to Burma or kicked up to another place. This is going on. We do not know how we are being kicked up like a football from one place to another, one place to another. This is all false notion. How long I shall remain here?

Kicked from one body to the next. That is our only business in this material world. Of course in our own minds we have established certain goals to work towards. Rich man, music genius, warlord,saintlyman, demigod whatever. All maya's tricks to keep us on this field of activity so that we may be kicked around some more, from one body to the next. And we are so foolish we think we are the player kicking the ball when actually we are the ball.

Dude, do you have any suggestions on how I can works me abs.? I'z gettin kine of flabby hanging out on the computer all day? Ya know what I'm sayin?

Didn't you see suchandra's post??? Play some football and burn off those extra calories. You gotta get some goals man.... lazy couch spud banging on a keyboard all day.