Dravidian

Einstein was not athiest or agnostic. He did believe in God. You obviously haven't read much on Einstein as a person. Plus his theory of relativity and modern phsyics resonate with vedic philosophy.

Karna was denied by Drona. However, varnashrama is NOT by birth but by nature. It was the duty of teachers like drona to recognize the nature of an individual and their respective varna. It just happened to be that in more enlightened times that birth and nature of an individual used to work in sinchronism. Because enlightened people could see the nature of people and allowed them to take their rightful place in the order of things. But with the advent of kali yuga on the horizon in the Mahabaratha, such things began to change. And as you see it today in the kali yuga, birth right often tends to be contradictary to and domintaes nature with respect to varnashrama through peoples desire to be powerful and on top of the caste system. Even in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna expresses that varnashrama is of nature orientation, just as all things in the universe. But humans, when corrupt, try to make their own rules out of ego-tainted desires. And so birth right became the means to identify varna or caste. Such abominations will be wiped out, because lies eventually die.

Not a very necessary question. Each avatar is a necessary incarnation. Krishna was incarnate in a way that was unique and appropriate for the time, and the same will be for Kalki. It depends on what the duty for each incarnation is. The duty of the incarnation along with the present state of affairs will be the vague indications of the power of avatars. Since the present state of affairs seems pretty 'bad" from our persepctive of the world you may imagine Kalki to be very powerful to set things "right". But we must know exactly what it is Kalki will be born to do to have some meaningful idea.

I agree and believe that what we call free will is merely the reactions of prakriti. The actions of this world are manifested/manifesting reverbirations from something deeper. A deeper vibration causes all that occurs here. we are the result of what has already occurred. Free will is a way to look at things in a temporary and limited paradigm. But ultimately in the grand scheme of things fee will is an illusion. But many of us are not able to comprehend this deep precept given to us from ages past. And so we were also given a way to understand ourselves within a "free will" paradigm. Hence we have rules of conduct and moral practice to prevent "chaos" and "evil". But eventually one will find that all that happens is necessary and the universe tends to unfold as it should. We are to observe and understand ourselves. Understand that all that happens is meant to and that the only Will is that of the One Almighty. Punishment and reward are simply consequences, the reactions of prakriti, karma. It is said that we must eventually become indifferent to these and move beyond worry of consequences through detachment of ego or identity from the confines of prakriti. All is God.

sorry I couldn't get the post to work. So here is the site: http://www.saxakali.com/southasia/dravidian_india.htm

The problem with this question is the way it is worded. It is worded in such a way as to make it seem that God cannot do something. If God creates a stone that he cannot lift, then there is something he cannot do....lift the stone. The other negative is that if God can lift any stone, then he cannot create a stone that he cannot lift. So it's a "trap" question if you will. The way to answer this qustion is to say that God can creat any stone, and God can lift any rock. Convention still fails in the light of Truth.

Agreed

I don't think God is describable. But I think as humans we need stepping stones to come to understand the ultimate. So we use vague representation like the scriptures of religion. Although the Vedic culture appears to be the most comprehensive and widest ranging in it's expressions, the Truth can never be uttered by Vak (speech). Although I consider Vedic scriptures to be sacred and enlightening, I still think there is a point in our evolution when we leave it behind. No concepts, or structures to hold on to for reason. The Truth goes beyond all thoughts. Although the vedas may paint a wonderful painting of God and the universe, existence, etc., it is still a painting, and ultimately falls short of reality. Though Vedic parables make wonderful concepts to attempt a description of God. They still never reach the Truth. And I only reffer to the attempt to describe God in this response, nothing else.

very nice post

Dear Guest, in vedic tradition, anywhere can be a place of worship. However, temples and the like where built to give people a sense of direction. Temples are storehouses for energy. When a temple is made properly it will assume the shape of a pyramid like structure. Like a person sitting in a lotus position. The magnetic field of person is magnified while sitting in the lotus position. The same is true for pyramid shapes buildings. It acts like an antenna to conduct/transmit energy. PLaces of worship were thus designed keeping this in mind. Transmiting energy from the higher planes to the lower (here), and to us. Auspicious Temples have a frequency of vibration that is beneficial to the person. I do not know too much about this subject, but I hope this helps. Please if anyone can add and/or correct me please do.

This is a very good post. I have been meaning to put this up, but you have done this for all to see...thank you. For a long time Western history and science has taught us that the evidence of vimanas from the Ramayana and Mahabaratha epics are myths. Where as my parents and ancestors have taught it as the history of our peoples. Beware the cultural and religious imperialists that would hide the truth of history.

Vanakkam Maadhav, you make an important point. I did not intend to make it seem as if the wisedom and paths of the Rishis of the past are not true. They indeed are paths to the Ultimate. But they still are in the realm of convention when they try to communicate such paths to us. I believe that the various paths of the wise souls of the Vedas lead to the ultimate, but they seem various and divergent only at the conventional level. I think there comes a point when all the paths collapse into the one and the same as they approach their Ultimate end. And this portion of the path(s) is ineffable and beyond expression....it can only be experienced. And so we have myriads of paths, to the One. The One we call so many different names in different forms. This is the beauty of the Vedic tradition. It has the ability to relate to any one of us, because God is an inclusive God not an exclusive God. All is Brahmam, All is Vishnu, All is Siva, All is Shakti. All is All. Beyond time, space, thought, language, and even imagination. Manifest and Unmanifest all is One. For all those who argue the pettiness of God supriority, you miss this point. Chant the name of whomever you please, but do not advertise and market your God, this is not becoming of virtue. I mean no offense to my brothers and sisters, I am just sharing my thoughts which I hope will help.

I think Atanu has brought up a good topic. The expressions of the Ultimate we have are worshipped by many. To argue which expression is greater is not the point. The point is to understand the significance of each expression. Though no expression can be the Truth, it is truth in practicality. It is a stepping stone to the Ultimate. No convention will be the Truth. The Truth is beyond concepts and philosophy, and thought. Even my attempt to bring this notion to light fails for it is a vague and dim shadow in the light of the ultimate Sath. However, it may expose one to the idea that there is no structure that will capture the Truth. The least of all any human language written or spoken. But it is the closest we have as beings in this existence. And these structures point towards the direction of the Truth. Do no mistake the sign for the Truth, for the Truth itself. There will come a time when one will have grown beyond all scripture. Then one will see that even scripture will not even hold any meaning in the light of Truth. Krishna has even said this in the Gita. One may hold a certain expression of the Ultimate as the Truth, and that is one's freedom to do so. But do not suppress the freedom of others to do the same thing. It is the journey of all to find Truth. All paths that follow sanatana dharma are to the Ultimate, whether it be Veda, Gita, or otherwise.

It would depend on what your names mean. If you could find out what your names mean in english it would be easier to find a translation. You may find more than one meaning for your names. It may be difficult to find a good translation for that is the dificulties with all languages especially when the mechanisms of the language vary and the peoples of that language differ with the way the express meanings.

Yes Dravidic people have become fair as well, like my mother. But even in Dravidic culture where my parents are from, they are taught that Dravidic people were originally dark or even black. When one says "Tamil complexion", for many dark skin is one of the first things that come to mind. But, you are correct in that today there are fair and dark Dravidians. Good point! So what makes them Dravidian now? What has always made them Dravidian...the language and culture. Again a good point Shreewd.

Thank you for proving the points I could not with my words. In response to the other Guest, I am Tamil and don't claim to be a Darvidian, I am!!! Being Arya is an honor by trying to follow sanatana dharma. Don't bring the arguments to personal grounds and try to make petty insults when you have no authority to. What do you know of me?! Just discuss the subject, that's all.

First of all, Aryan's never invaded, they were always in India, the Dravidians are Aryans. Second, I do not deny that people eventually immigrated into India, but I deny the poilitical and racial undertones that is used by AIT/AIM to say that Indians were inferior, or that they were conquered. It is obvious that people of lighter skin are also apart of India, but India was never "invaded" by them. If you read the Gita, you will see that Indians possessed advanced technology that would slaughter any invaders during those times. But they eventually regressed because of nuclear war.

Your post is well reasoned, on that I must give respect. But I must ask you a question about Islam. Some muslims I have met have said that Islam is a religion of tolerance and it is a staple for being Muslim. The other side of the coin is that Islam must conquer all other religions and by any means necessary to profess the words of the Qu'ran. Please, without any expectation of retaliation from me, explain to me what the view in the Qu'ran is about other religions. Thank you for your time.

Dear Shreewd, you are correct with respect to colour and heritage in my opinion. Thank you for the discussion on this subject.

Good post Guest...my sentimenst exactly. I ahve posted similar explanations of caste and varna, and the meaning of arya in other discussions.

That is a good question. And it is quiet relevant to the subject for my background can make for a biased outlook. I am Tamil, but I do not look it. My father looks more dravidian than I. My mother is light skinned, but still Tamil. I am in the middle. I have traits of both Dravidian and lighter skinned people. I still hail from a Darvidian blood line, but there is no denying that I have other than Dravidian blood that has come to mingle with my family at some point and is now my own. But to further continue our discussion, the Tamil language predates even the Sanskrit language as many Dravidian languages do. I believe at some point lighter skinned people did come to India and the mingling of them and perhaps other races has developed into present day India, and Sri Lanka. But I refute the way the AIT/AIM tends to interpret the facts. I depend on the Baghavad Gita and other scriptures to tell me the history of my own peoples. I believe if there really was an invasion, it would be somewhere in the scriptures. Perhaps science may unearth the truth without the obscurity of western semantics and propaganda. If not, then I am at the mercy of God to show me in some way, if God wish it so.

Please read the sites I have posted.....there is little chance that chariots and horses were able to come through the terrain that AIT/AIM claims that the aryans came from to invade/migrate into indus valley.

Brinaath, I think you have been led to believe something by your teacher that is false. The reasons you have stated for AIT being true don't make any sense for AIT being true. So there were some poojas that evolved after a certain date that seems to correspond after this supposed AIT. That means nothing. Poojas were performed because wisemen or rishis dicovered the ability to make certain things happen through them. And of course a new pooja can be discovered even today. The caste system was not for one race to rule over others as it may seem today in the kali-yuga. The caste system was made for certain people with certain virtues and abilities to serve they're society and people in the ways they best could. Brahmins were dark and light skinned if you really want to know. The term Varna refers to colour yes, but to colour of virtue, white being pure in virtue, not colour of skin. Do not let ignorant colour supremacists whether light skinned or dark confuse the truth. All one needs is search themselves and they will find the Truth through God. We meditate on the glory of the Creator; Who has created the Universe; Who is worthy of Worship; Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light; Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance; May He enlighten our Intellect.

If you want some articles check Dr. David Frawley and for more sites: http://www.studyworld.com/newsite/ReportEssay/Science/Social%5CAryan_Invasion_Theory.htm http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/A/Aryan-invasion-theory.htm http://climbtothestars.org/writing/aryan/ http://www.uni-giessen.de/~gk1415/indus_history.htm http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/read/1040 http://www.stephen-knapp.com/scholars_of_false_history_of_india_are_a_dying_breed.htm historyspeek There is much much more out there, all you have to do is search with a pure heart. If people really wanted to know they would search themselves. But I have done some work for them, the rest is up to you. We meditate on the glory of the Creator; Who has created the Universe; Who is worthy of Worship; Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light; Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance; May He enlighten our Intellect. [moderator's note: link shortened to keep page onscreen]

<<<The people we have which history cannot deny are great Sages who come quite often to teach the same spiritual truths to people of every generation. Rama and Krishna DO NO NEED to be accepted as Avtars, some Hindus do accept them and some Hindus don't, but we are not compelled to accept them. Even some Sages didn't believe they were historical and see the Gita as a book to show you how to live the Upanishadic teachings in everyday life and Krishna is a symbol of Brahman (Paramatma). But the people of authority have always been the sages, though differences of opinion are due to which sect a Hindu belongs to. To be honest with you I don't believe in the Puranas, they are far-fetched, the Ramayana and Mahabharata come under Itihaas, which means they are historical epics and as they are poetry, they contain similes and metaphors need to be interpreted correctly or else they will translate as mythology like you see on Zee TV.>>> I would like to reply to the guest that wrote this. I understand the view you are coming from for I was there once. You have your reasons for thinking what you do and I don't blame you at all. And it is due to the western ideas of hindus and the east that you may see the puranas and the great epics the way you do. But I have come to regard the puranas and eipcs as true events that occured. It may seem far fetched depending on how you view it. You see, in the ancient times, the vedic people were technologically advanced and were able to do the so called "far fetched" things. The demigods or devas are also higher beings that live on other planets and other realms. If you believe in alliens, then you can believe in the devas. The devas are technologically and spiritually advanced beyond what we are right now. But there was a time when the devas spoke to our ancestors like people speak to each other today, because the ancient vedic people were advanced enough to understand communication with the devas in such a manner. It would be different now, for our civilization has greatly de-evolved. How would you speak to an animal? How would you communicate all the knowledge that you understand on your level to the level of a dog or cat (for lack of a better analogy)? We meditate on the glory of the Creator; Who has created the Universe; Who is worthy of Worship; Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light; Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance; May He enlighten our Intellect.