Jahnava Nitai Das

As a practical example, if you or I fast completely for the day on a holy occassion, it isn't torture, it is austerity. But if a small child is made to undergo the same fast, it is a form of torture. Many factors are involved, such as ability to tolerate, ultimate purpose, mental conception, etc. The saints of previous ages certainly had a higher experience of reality, made possible through their god realization, that helped them to transcend their physical experiences. It is described that Dhruva, but holding his breath, made the entire universe suffocate (unintentionally). His consciousness had transcended his body and enveloped the universe.

Just when I was getting used to the old speed of light. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

What constitutes torture to the body will vary according to the individual,time and circumstances. Dhruva didn't require a rope swing to sleep in. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

CROSS-CULTURAL TRACES OF VEDIC CIVILIZATION by Sadaputa Dasa The ancient Greek writer Aratos tells the following story about the constellation Virgo, or the virgin. Virgo, he says, may have belonged to the star race, the forefathers of the ancient stars. In primeval times, in the golden age, she lived among mankind as Justice personified and would exhort people to adhere to the truth. At this time people lived peacefully, without hypocrisy or quarrel. Later, in the age of silver, she hid herself in the mountains, but occasionally she came down to berate people for their evil ways. Finally the age of bronze came. People invented the sword, and "they tasted the meat of cows, the first who did it." At this point Virgo "flew away to the sphere"; that is, she departed for the celestial realm.[1] The Vedic literature of India gives an elaborate description of the universe as a cosmos -- a harmonious, ordered system created according to an intelligent plan as a habitation for living beings. The modern view of the universe is so different from the Vedic view that the latter is presently difficult to comprehend. In ancient times, however, cosmogonies similar to the Vedic system were widespread among people all over the world. Educated people of today tend to immediately dismiss these systems of thought as mythology, pointing to their diversity and their strange ideas as proof that they are all simply products of the imagination. If we do this, however, we may be overlooking important information that could shed light on the vast forgotten period that precedes the brief span of recorded human history. There is certainly much evidence of independent storytelling in the traditions of various cultures, but there are also many common themes. Some of these themes are found in highly developed form in the Vedic literature. Their presence in cultures throughout the world is consistent with the idea that in the distant past, Vedic culture exerted worldwide influence. In this article we will give some examples of Vedic ideas concerning time and human longevity that appear repeatedly in different traditions. First we will examine some of these ideas, and then we will discuss some questions about what they imply and how they should be interpreted. In the Vedic literature time is regarded as a manifestation of Krsna, the Supreme Being. As such, time is a controlling force that regulates the lives of living beings in accordance with a cosmic plan. This plan involves repeating cycles of creation and destruction of varying durations. The smallest and most important of these repeating cycles consists of four yugas, or ages, called Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali. In these successive ages mankind gradually descends from a high spiritual platform to a degenerated state. Then, with the beginning of a new Satya-yuga, the original state of purity is restored, and the cycle begins again. The story of Virgo illustrates that in the ancient Mediterranean world there was widespread belief in a similar succession of four ages, known there as the ages of gold, silver, bronze, and iron. In this system humanity also starts out in the first age in an advanced state of consciousness and gradually becomes degraded. Here also, the progressive developments in human society are not simply evolving by physical processes, but are superintended by a higher controlling intelligence. It is noteworthy that Aratos' story specifies the eating of cows as a sinful act that cut mankind off from direct contact with celestial beings. This detail fits in nicely with the ancient Indian traditions of cow protection, but it is unexpected in the context of Greek or European culture. One explanation for similarities between ideas found in different cultures is that people everywhere have essentially the same psychological makeup, and so they tend to come up independently with similar notions. However, details such as the point about cow-killing suggest that we are dealing here with common traditions rather than independent inventions. Another example of similarities between cultures can be found among the natives of North America. The Sioux Indians say that their ancestors were visited by a celestial woman who gave them their system of religion. She pointed out to them that there are four ages, and that there is a sacred buffalo that loses one leg during each age. At present we are in the last age, an age of degradation, and the buffalo has one leg.[2] This story is a close parallel to the account in the Srimad Bhagavatam of the encounter between Maharaja Pariksit and the bull of Dharma. There, Dharma is said to lose one leg with each successive yuga, leaving it with one leg in the present Age of Kali. According to the Vedic system, the lengths of the Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali yugas are 4, 3, 2, and 1 times an interval of 432,000 years. Within these immense periods of time the human life span decreases from 100,000 years in the Satya-yuga to 10,000 years in the Treta-yuga, 1,000 years in the Dvapara-yuga, and finally 100 years in the Kali-yuga. Of course, this idea is strongly at odds with the modern evolutionary view of the past. In the ancient Mediterranean world, however, it was widely believed that human history had extended over extremely long periods of time. For example, according to old historical records, Porphyry (c. 300 A.D.) said that Callisthenes, a companion of Alexander in the Persian war, dispatched to Aristotle Babylonian records of eclipses and that these records covered 31,000 years. Likewise, Iamblicus (fourth century) said on the authority of the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus that the Assyrians had made observations for 270,000 years and had kept records of the return of all seven planets to the same position.[3] Finally, the Babylonian historian Berosus assigned 432,000 years to the total span of the reigns of the Babylonian kings before the Flood.[4] We do not wish to suggest that these statements are true (or that they are false). The point here is that people in the old Mediterranean civilization evidently had a much different view of the past than the dominant view today. And this view was broadly consistent with Vedic chronology. Although the Bible is well known for advocating a very short time-span for human history, it is interesting to note that it contains information indicating that people at one time lived for about 1,000 years. In the Old Testament the following ages are listed for people living before the Biblical Flood: Adam, 930; Seth, 912; Enos, 905; Kenan, 910; Mahaleel, 895; Jared, 962; Enoch, 365; Methusaleh,969; Lamech, 777; and Noah, 950. If we exclude Enoch (who was said to have been taken up to heaven in his own body), these persons lived an average of 912 years.[5] After the Flood, however, the following ages were recorded: Shem, 600; Arphachshad, 438; Selah, 433; Eber, 464; Peleg, 239; Reu, 239; Serug, 230; Nahor, 148; Terah, 205; Abraham, 175; Issac, 180; Job, 210; Jacob, 147; Levi, 137; Kohath, 133; Amaram, 137; Moses, 120; and Joshua, 110. These ages show a gradual decline to about 100 years, similar to what must have happened after the beginning of Kali-yuga, according to the Vedic system. Here we should mention in passing that the Biblical Flood is traditionally said to have taken place in the second or third millenium B.C., and the traditional date in India for the beginning of Kali-yuga is February 18, 3102 B.C. This very date is cited as the time of the Flood in various Persian, Islamic, and European writings from the sixth to the fourteenth centuries A.D.[6] How did the middle-eastern Flood come to be associated with the start of Kali-yuga? The only comment we can make is that this story shows how little we really know about the past. In support of the Biblical story of very long human life-spans in ancient times, the Roman historian Flavius Josephus cited many historical works that were available in his time: Now when Noah had lived 350 years after the Flood, and all that time happily, he died, having the number of 950 years, but let no one, upon comparing the lives of the ancients with our lives...make the shortness of our lives at present an argument that neither did they attain so long a duration of life.... Now I have for witnesses to what I have said all those that have written Antiquities, both among the Greeks and barbarians, for even Manetho, who wrote the Egyptian history, and Berosus, who collected the Chaldean monuments, and Mochus, and Hestiaeus, and beside these, Hiernonymous the Egyptian, and those who composed the Phoenician history, agree with what I here say: Hesiod also, and Hecataeus, Hellanicaus, and Acuzilaus, and besides Ephorus and Nicolaus relate that the ancients lived a thousand years: but as to these matters, let everyone look upon them as he sees fit.[7] Unfortunately, practically none of the works referred to by Josephus are still existing, and this again shows how little we know of the past. But in existing Norse sagas it is said that people in ancient times lived for many centuries. In addition, the Norse sagas describe a progression of ages, including an age of peace, an age when different social orders were introduced, an age of increasing violence, and a degraded "knife-age and axe-age with cloven shields."[8] The latter is followed by a period of annihilation, called Ragnarok, after which the world is restored to goodness. The Norse Ragnarok involves the destruction of the earth and the abodes of the Norse demigods (called Asgard), and thus it corresponds in Vedic chronology to the annihilation of the three worlds that follows 1,000 yuga cycles, or one day of Brahma. It is said that during Ragnarok the world is destroyed with flames by a being called Surt, who lives beneath the lower world (appropriately called Hel) and was involved in the world's creation. By comparison, the Srimad Bhagavatam (3.11.30) states that at the end of Brahma's day, "the devastation takes place due to the fire emanating from the mouth of Sankarsana." Sankarsana is a plenary expansion of Krsna who is "seated at the bottom of the universe" (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.8.3), beneath the lower planetary systems. There are many similarities between the Norse and Vedic cosmologies, but there are also great differences. One key difference is that in the Srimad Bhagavatam, all beings and phenomena within the universe are clearly understood as part of the divine plan of Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In contrast, in the Norse mythology God is conspicuously absent, and the origin and purpose of the major players in the cosmic drama are very obscure. Surt, in particular, is a "fire giant" whose origins and motives are unclear even to experts in the Norse literature.[9] One might ask, If Vedic themes appear in many different societies, how can one conclude that they derive from an ancient Vedic civilization? Perhaps they were created in many places independently, or perhaps they descend from an unknown culture that is also ancestral to what we call Vedic culture. Thus parallels between the accounts of Surt and Sankarsana may be coincidental, or perhaps the Vedic account derives from a story similar to that of Surt. Our answer to this question is that available empirical evidence will not be sufficient to prove the hypothesis of descent from an ancient Vedic culture, for all empirical evidence is imperfect and subject to various interpretations. But we can decide whether or not the evidence is consistent this hypothesis. If there was an ancient Vedic world civilization, we would expect to find traces of it in many cultures around the world. We do seem to find such traces, and many agree with Vedic accounts in specific details (such as the location of Surt's abode or the sacred buffalo's loss of one leg per world age). Since this civilization began to lose its influence thousands of years ago, at the beginning of Kali-yuga, we would expect many of these traces to be fragmentary and overlain by many later additions, and this we also see. Thus the available evidence seems to be consistent with the hypothesis of a Vedic origin. REFERENCES [1] E. C. Sachau, trans., Alberuni's India (Delhi: S. Chand & Co., 1964), pp. 383-4. [2] J. E. Brown, ed., The Sacred Pipe (Baltimore: Penguin Books, 1971), p. 9. [3] D. Neugebauer, History of Ancient Mathematical Astronomy (Berlin: Springer-Verlag, 1975), pp. 608-9. [4] J. D. North, "Chronology & the Age of the World," in Cosmology, History & Theology, eds. Wolfgang Yourgrau and A. D. Breck (N. Y.: Plenum Press, 1977), p. 315. [5] D. W. Patten and P. A. Patten, "A Comprehensive Theory on Aging, Gigantism & Longevity," Catastrophism & Ancient History, Vol. 2, Part 1 (Aug. 1979), p. 24. [6] J. D. North, Ibid., p. 316-7. [7] D. W. Patten, Ibid., p. 29. [8] V. Rydberg, Teutonic Mythology, R. B. Anderson, trans. (London: Swan Sonnenschein & Co., 1889), pp. 88,94. [9] Ibid., pp. 448-9. END OF ARTICLE

How is the color change determined and what is the original color?

According to the Gita, austerities that torture the body are in the mode of ignorance. The result of any tamasic activity is ultimately negative.

I stumbled across an outsiders website who happened to see the Ratha Yatra and post an article on his website. Here is what he said: "I stumbled onto the parade, the "Festival of Chariots," which was billed to me as a traditional Indian parade. But I didn't see too many Indians, which is puzzling considering this city's ethnic makeup. It was almost exclusively Whitey. Every one of the "commanders," the guys with megaphones leading the Hare Krishna chants, was white. All the guys (gurus?) riding on the floats were Indian, however. Update: I just saw a flyer. The festival of chariots was put on by the San Francisco Society for Krishna Conciousness." You can visit his site and see some of the pictures he took: http://www.honan.net/ Here is a funny picture, which he captioned as "Krishna Family". It's funny because the people have no connection to each other, but he obviously concluded it was a father, mother and daughter. That's Hanumat Preshaka Swami on the right.

Standing Saint Propagates World Peace BHOPAL, INDIA, July 31, 2002: Sant Ram Kishore Das Khade Shree Maharaj has never in the past nine years sat or lied down. Originally from Nepal, the 73-year-old saint has pledged to remain standing for at least 14 years for world peace. Sant Ram feels he can remain standing for more than 14 years or even through his entire life. He began his present sadhana, discipline, in Mehsana, Gujarat, in 1993. "The first two years had been excruciatingly tough with my feet swelling up with pain and itching," he said adding, "I keep standing on either foot alternatively through the day and night. And to rest, I place my hands on a swing-like contraption or lean on a pole behind me. The swing also serves as support to sleep." He prefers walking taking rest midway by supporting himself on tree branches on roadsides. Sant Ram annual calendar also includes other pledges like to not speak for five months in a year when he meditates indoors for 22 hours and meets people only for two hours.

Paris Readies for Annual Ganesha Chariot Festival PARIS, FRANCE, August 10, 2002: The Annual Chariot Festival of Sri Manika Vinayakar Alayam, will be held for the seventh year in succession on September 8, 2002, under the able guidance of the founder & president. The chariot festival, an ancient Hindu tradition followed through the ages in their motherland, has not been forgotten by the thousands of Hindus living in Europe and quite rightly chosen to celebrate this event in the most prestigious and flamboyant French capital of Paris. It is expected to attract well over ten thousand devotees from all over Europe. Saffron water will be sprayed before the chariot right through the whole journey and devotees and accompanied the chariot barefooted. As in the past, the ceremony will be officiated by three or five leading priests (Kurukkal) commencing at 9:00 am and the procession then goes through the 18th and 10th ward of Paris and terminates its journey around 3;00 pm. ''Kavadis'' take pride of place by leading the procession followed by the ''Nagaswaram & Drummers,'' and trailing the chariot will be mainly the women devotees carrying camphor pots on their heads and singing devotional songs. All are welcome to participate in this happy event, thus fostering and creating an atmosphere of cordiality and friendship among the various communities.

Tirupati Temple Plans to Auction Tonsured Pilgrim's Hair Source: South China Morning Post INDIA, July 27, 2002: One of the country's richest and oldest Hindu temples is planning a global hair tender in a move to cut out middlemen and get the best price for thousands of pounds of shorn locks donated daily by devotees. Authorities from the Tirupati temple, in Andhra Pradesh, said notices would be published in newspapers abroad, including Hong Kong, inviting international bids for tons of hair used by wig makers. This year, the temple has already earned several million dollars after selling over 450,000 lbs of hair to middlemen, who are regular suppliers to the booming business of false hairpieces in India and abroad. The hair offered to Lord Venkateswara by millions of pilgrims as penance or for fulfilling their prayers is exported to wig makers in Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, the U.S. and Western Europe. The hair brings in huge profits and also makes a tidy sum for the middlemen. "We have been at the mercy of middlemen for far too long and now we have decided to eliminate them for good," Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams executive officer P. Krishnaaiah said. "Henceforth, we will float global tenders to get the best prices for the commodity in the international market." The hilltop Tirupati temple attracts 10 million devotees annually. Up to 1,200 temple barbers working around the clock shave the heads of about 15,000 pilgrims every day.

Marxist Magazine Proclaims Mother Teresa the "Greatest Indian" DELHI, INDIA, August 12, 2002: This BBC article states, "Mother Teresa of Calcutta has been voted the greatest Indian since the country's independence in 1947 in an Indian magazine survey. The top ten Indians are: Mother Teresa, Jawaharlal Nehru, Vallabhbhai Patel, Indira Gandhi, JRD Tata, BR Ambedkar, Dhibhai Ambani, Sachin Tendulkar, Jayaprakash Narayan and Atal Behari Vajpayee. She was the only one on the list not an Indian by birth, and led the tally in most of the states in India and across all age groups in the survey carried out by leading English-language magazine, Outlook. Mother Teresa was ranked ahead of independent India's first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, as well as front-line independence leader Sardar Vallabhai Patel, who was instrumental in getting the princely states to join the Indian Union. "The response was beyond anything we had imagined," an editorial in the magazine said. The responses kept flooding in over e-mail, fax and snail mail till the last minute." Respondents who are 60 years and above seem to be more cynical about Mother Teresa's contribution than the rest. The poll did not include the leader of India's freedom struggle, Mahatma Gandhi, because the magazine decided "to keep the father of the nation above a voting process." The BBC fails to critique the poll, which was not a random sampling, but a request for readers to respond. It was therefore subject to "ballot-box stuffing." There is no way to determine if this result reflects the views of Indians. The decision to eliminate Gandhi, who plausibly would have won, is questionable. But the BBC reports this results as fact, failing to point out these weaknesses, or that the magazine, Outlook, is a Marxist-oriented publication.

Was it one chariot this year?

Why are there no descriptions of the San Francisco Ratha Yatra? Some of you must have gone.

It changes based on the age (yuga), the planet, and the particular human species.

I recall seeing a verse that listed different animal species, and told how many solar years made up their hundred years. I forget the exact numbers, but I seem to recall the elephants "hundred years" is 120 solar years.

The hundred years is the proper duration for a species, but not everyone within the species lives their full duration. What if Brahma died when he was 50 - he would not have attained his "hundred years of life", which is actually trillions of years. Every species has a predetermined life range. Some will live to their full potential, others will die sooner due to disease, calamity, etc. The blessing is that one should live their complete life span without any negative influences such as disease or calamity. If Brahma's hundred years can be trillions, why can't Dhruva's hundred years be 36,000 solar years?

We also find it mentioned that all life forms live their hundred years by their own conceptions. The reality is the ant, mosquitoe, horse, and cow don't live 100 years. The ancients could have lived for thousands of years, but still perceived it as a regular length life. Long and short are all created by our mental conceptions. Some insects live for a few hours, but still they will feel they lived a complete life. Thus the "100 years" may refer to a complete life, not necessarily to 100 solar years. It is described how the years of some devas equal 60 times human years. And the years of Brahma equal millions of times our years. Still they all perceive themselves as living 100 years. We are n the 51st year of Brahma, but trillions of years have passed by according to our insignificant calculations.

Frisbee pioneer dies Ashes to be made into discs August 13, 2002 Posted: 10:11 PM EDT (0211 GMT) SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) -- "Steady" Ed Headrick, the California inventor who figured out a way to make the Frisbee fly fast and straight, has died at the age of 78. His family said his ashes will be made into Frisbees. Headrick died in his sleep early Monday at his home in La Selva Beach, California, his son Ken told the Santa Cruz Sentinel Tuesday. While no services are now planned, Headrick's ashes will be molded into a limited number of "memorial flying discs" which will be distributed to family and friends, and sold to help fund a future Frisbee/disc golf history and memorabilia museum, his son, Ken Headrick, said. The elder Headrick, who had high blood pressure, had suffered two strokes while attending the Professional Disc Golf Association Amateur World Championships in Miami last month and returned home to California after doctors determined that his condition was likely to deteriorate. Hailed as the father of the modern Frisbee, Headrick helped to perfect the popular flying disc beloved by generations of college students while working at Emeryville, California-based toymaker Wham-O Inc. in 1964. The Frisbee -- said to be named after the Frisbie Pie Company of Bridgeport, Connecticut, whose round metal tins were used as toys by students at Yale University in the late 19th Century -- took on new life with the advent of industrial plastics. After World War Two, an inventor named Walter Morrison worked on perfecting a plastic version of the toy and came up with the "Pluto Platter" prototype, a plastic mini-flying saucer. But the platter still proved to be a wobbly throw. Headrick, who was then working on research and development at Wham-O, took a look at the design and added aerodynamic ridges on the top of the disc, making it more flight-worthy. Headrick compares his "professional" model Frisbee with the pie pan that was the original "flying disc" in this 1985 photo. Awarded the patent for the first "professional" model Frisbee in 1966, Headrick went on to popularize a wide variety of Frisbee-related sports, founding the International Frisbee Association and later the Professional Disc Golf Association, which involves throwing a Frisbee at a metal cage. "We all wished for a miracle that would have had him up and out of bed throwing discs and joking around once again. That miracle that was Ed will have to live on in our hearts and souls now," the Disc Golf Association said in a release Tuesday. Headrick is survived by his wife as well several children and grandchildren. In an interview with the Santa Cruz Sentinel last year, Headrick acknowledged the special power of the Frisbee -- one of the simplest and most successful toys ever devised. "I felt the Frisbee had some kind of a spirit involved. It's not just like playing catch with a ball. It's the beautiful flight," Headrick said. "We used to say that Frisbee is really a religion -- 'Frisbyterians,' we'd call ourselves," he said. "When we die, we don't go to purgatory. We just land up on the roof and lay there."

Here is a site that was submitted to http://www.dragon-search.com today. It is a travelogue of someone's trip to China with many photos. It is not about a spiritual search, but may be interesting to some. China - Yunnan - Trip 2002 Travelogue http://home-1.tiscali.nl/~mndell/enchina.html Travelogue of China Yunnan province 2002 including photos, GPS waypoints and a short video of the Tiger Leaping Gorge

As far as I know, New Vrindavan is more or less under ISKCON and has nothing to do with Kirtanananda. (I recall a letter from the New Vrindavan authorities refusing Narayana Maharaja permission to use their facilities sometime back, which would indicate this is the case). I don't believe that date of Feb 2002 can be accurate. We would have heard something about it if it was. Anyone else know anything?

I have told someone to remove any URL that may be viewed as offensive by readers. The policy isn't anything against IRM or any particular group. This includes websites that are filled with criticisms of devotees (whether valid or not), websites that focus on violence, websites that contain pornography or excess profanity, etc. I apologize if anyone feels badly because of this policy.

From Srimad Bhagavatam: jyayan gunair avarajo 'py aditeh sutanam lokan vicakrama iman yad athadhiyajnah ksmam vamanena jagrhe tripada-cchalena yacnam rte pathi caran prabhubhir na calyah "The Lord, although transcendental to all material modes, still surpassed all the qualities of the sons of Aditi, known as the Adityas. The Lord appeared as the youngest son of Aditi. And because He surpassed all the planets of the universe, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. On the pretense of asking for a measurement of three footsteps of land, He took away all the lands of Bali Maharaja. He asked simply because without begging, no authority can take one's rightful possession." atrapi bhagavaj-janma kasyapad aditer abhut adityanam avarajo visnur vamana-rupa-dhrk "In this manvantara, the Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared as the youngest of all the Adityas, known as Vamana, the dwarf. His father was Kasyapa and His mother Aditi."

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