Jahnava Nitai Das

The following was posted by Basu Ghosh Das on another forum:

Good thing you reminded me. I was supposed to fix that a long time ago.

Off hand I can only recall Puranic statements or dharma-shastras (like Manu). But then it isn't exactly the slavery of modern times, but more like servanthood. I remember on oneof the "Remembrances of Prabhupada" videos, a devotee telling about the first time Prabhupada came to Africa to visit one of the ISKCON temples. Prabhupada's assistant couldn't locate any of prabhupada's clothes that he had washed; someone had stolen them. Then in the morning when Prabhupada was giving Bhagavatam class, all the African devotees came into the temple room, one wearing prabhupada's shirt, one wearing his hat, one wearing his sweater, etc.

Official Temple Website: http://www.akshardham.com/ It is a Swaminarayan temple.

Gunmen storm Akshardham temple in Gandhinagar, 30 killed, 100 hurt By Vrunda Shah in Ahmedabad Thirty people were killed and nearly 100 injured on Tuesday evening when gunmen stormed the famous Akshardham temple in Gandhinagar, capital of Gujarat. Earlier officials sources had put the toll at 44 dead, but late in the night scaled down the figure, which now officially has been put at 25 dead and 77 injured. But, sources in hospitals, where bodies have been brought, said 30 people have died and the toll could go up as some of the injured were in critical condition. A government spokesperson, however, said only 31 persons have been injured in the attack, adding that 500 devotees were rescued. Two of the injured belonged to the minority community and were identified as Anwar Mir and Abdul Mir. The terrorists, believed to be three in number, first threw grenades in the complex and then started firing indiscriminately. Confusion also prevailed on whether any devotees were still inside the temple with contradictory claims made by government officials and temple authorities Temple spokesman Brahm Bihari Das said about 100 devotees were still inside the complex, adding the terrorists were holed up in different areas of the temple. He said the militants also seemed unaware of the temple layout. But Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi said no devotees were inside the temple complex. Inspector General of Police (Gandhinagar) Pramod Kumar, however, said some 50 to 60 devotees were inside the temple, but were safe and away from the area where the militants were operating. He added that the police were not making efforts to evacuate these devotees right now, as this would expose them to the terrorists holed up inside the temple complex. The gunmen are believed to have entered the temple complex, which has four entrances, through gate nos 1 and 2, at around 1720 hours IST. Security forces have surrounded the temple, situated about two km from the state secretariat, Gujarat Agriculture Minister Purushotam Rupala said. Union Minister of State for Defence Harin Pathak said hospitals in Gandhinagar and Ahmedabad and teams of doctors have been kept in readiness to attend to the casualties. The temple is a popular destination for people of the Swaminarayan sect and others, including foreigners. It is located in a massive complex spread over 23 acres and is usually crowded in the evenings. The head of the sect, Pramukh Swami, is safe in Sarangpur and is rushing to Gandhinagar. He is fifth successor to Lord Swaminarayan. Meanwhile, Minister of State for Home I D Swami appealed to the citizens of Gandhinagar to maintain peace and communal harmony. Deputy Prime Minister Lal Kishenchand Advani is already in Gandhinagar, his parliamentary constituency.

Ravindra Svarupa dasa at 9/11 Remembrance Service From Lavanga-manjari dd Click here for full size On September 11, 2002, His Grace Ravindra Svarupa Dasa took part in a special Interfaith Service of Remembrance at the Washington National Cathedral. As a national leader in ISKCON, Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu was invited to participate in the one-and-a-half-hour-long program as the representative of the Hindu tradition. The ceremony, which featured other prominent speakers, most notably Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa, commemorated the first anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. In the service, the opening hymn, "O God, Our Help in Ages Past," was followed by readings from the holy writings of world faiths. The five readings— from Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, and Christian traditions— were initiated by Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu, who offered the following verse in Sanskrit, then in English: "This is a reading from Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 5, Chapter 18, Verse 9: "svasty astu vishvasya khalah prasidatam "dhyayantu bhutani shivam mitho dhiya "manash ca bhadram bhajatad adhokshaje "aveshyatam no matir apy ahaituki "May the entire universe be blessed with peace and hope. May everyone driven by envy and enmity become pacified and reconciled. May all living beings develop abiding concern for the welfare of others. May our own hearts and minds be filled with purity and serenity. May all these blessings flow naturally from this supreme benediction: May our attention become spontaneously absorbed in the rapture of pure love unto the transcendent Lord." Speaking afterwards to some devotees, Ravindra Svarupa explained his choice of this text: "This is Prahlada Maharaja's prayer to Lord Narasimhadeva for universal peace. It is extremely potent. I became especially devoted to this prayer in 2000. That year, I was GBC chairman, and I decided to perform, especially for the welfare of ISKCON, a vrata of chanting sixty-four rounds a day during the month of Karttika. During that vrata, before beginning each set of sixteen rounds, I recited this prayer. I also recited the Upanishadic prayer to Narasimhadeva that precedes it. I realized more and more that this is an especially wonderful and potent prayer, filled with powerful benedictions. "Then, on the Sunday directly following September 11, 2001, when everyone was still in shock, I passed out the same prayer to our congregation in Philadelphia and led everyone in the chanting of this prayer. "So when I got the opportunity to participate in the service at the National Cathedral, I knew immediately which text I would recite. "There was, for me, a great sense of fulfillment in being able to utter this verse, this mantra, at this place on this occasion. The ceremony was in every way a state occasion. It overflowed with aishvarya, quite befitting the United States of America, I felt. From the height of the pulpit I could look all the way down the vast nave of the cathedral, packed with the Washington establishment. I recognized the Attorney General John Ashcroft sitting with his family in the first pew. "I said the prayer first in Sanskrit. It felt wonderful to send Prahlada Maharaja's words, beginning with the auspicious word ‘svasti’ out into the enormous volume of sculptured cathedral space. I followed with an English translation. To suit the demands of the place, the occasion, and the audience, I made my own translation, but based it scrupulously on Prabhupada's own." The program later included prayers of faith, described like this: "Prayers are now offered by national leaders of world faiths." (There were eleven prayers, supposed to be each no more than one hundred words.) Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu offered this: "The Vedas proclaim, ‘isavasyam idam sarvam yat kinca jagatyam jagat.’ Everything in this universe animate and inanimate is owned and cared for by the Lord. O Lord, please reveal the import of this. Then we shall know: In Your care for Your creatures, You have provided sufficiently for each one. Insufficiency arises when someone, insufficiently aware of You, encroaches upon another's share. Inspire us with remembrance of You, so we care for one another as You care for all. Then we shall see Your fullness mirrored everywhere. The shattered image of this world will be repaired. Loving You wholly, our love will include everyone and everything. Please bestow that supreme devotion upon us. Hare Krishna." Video footage, photos and a downloadable pdf of the interfaith service program booklet can be found at the cathedral's website http://www.cathedral.org/cathedral/worship/020911.shtml. For more information about His Grace Ravindra Svarupa dasa's preaching efforts, including lectures and seminars, please visit, www.rsdml.com.

Perhaps you should ask that to whoever made that statement. I dont see anyone making that statement in this thread. Europeans have been slaves, as I pointed out in a previous message. Slavery has existed in every culture, and everyone, whether they be europeans, chinese, japanese, indians, or africans have been slaves at some point in history. That was their karmic reaction. Since our modern history only documents the history of Kali yuga, we will not find a case where terrible exploitation has not occured. Up till today, the Africans in Africa have not shown themselves qualified to rule themselves without destroying each other. This does not mean that they should be enslaved, but just that they will continue to suffer, either under their own rule or the rule of others. In an ideal situation, a saintly king would guide such people in their actions, not giving them absolute freedom to destroy each other. This is the meaning to "Africans are meant to be slaves." Prabhupada uses the word slave synonymously with Shudra, or laborer. He does not use it in the modern context. Today in Africa there is no respect for human life, or life in general. That is a sure sign of an uncivilized culture. If they are educated, they can come to respect life, otherwise they will continue killing each other for nothing. It is really just a matter of one's inherent nature (gunas). We can see blacks in America who have become educated are much more civilized than those in Africa who have not. There are other places in the world where similar disregard for human life exists. They equally need to become educated, or at least they need a Dhruva Maharaja to keep them in order. Seeing as there are no saintly kings, the only choice is education.

Ancient Hindu Temple Discovered in Indonesia Source: Deutsche Press - Agentur WEST JAVA, INDONESIA, September 3, 2002: A Cangkuang villager hunting for termites under a tree discovered a sharp hand-carved stone. Further investigation revealed that the location was the site of an ancient Hindu temple. The site is especially significant as the archeologists are hoping to obtain more information about the Sundanese kingdoms in West Java. Tony Djubiantono, head of West Java's Bandung Archeology Agency says, "Based on a preliminary finding of various remains there are indications that this is a Hindu temple built in the seventh or eighth century." The article says, "Buddhism and Hinduism were Indonesia's first world religions, popular among the first kingdoms of Java until the 14th and 15th centuries when Islam started to gain a greater foothold in the archipelago." Djubiantono further describes the finding of such a temple, "as spectacular and very significant for recovering the missing history of the so-called Tatar Sunda, or Sunda territory."

Miracle Reported in Gujarat Siva Temples AHMEDABAD, INDIA, September 23, 2002: Reports of a miracle have people thronging to Siva temples across the state. People have sighted "Om" on Siva Lingams in temples and observed water was flowing out of the icon. Crowds thronged Siva temples at Hatkeshwar, Amraiwadi, Vatva, and Navrangpura in Ahmedabad, and Karelibaug, Makarpura and other places in Vadodara. In Ahmedabad, the crowds got so unwieldy that police reinforcements had to be rushed to control them. According to reports, the Somnath temple, which is among the 12 Jyotir Lingams, was also thrown open and people were seen performing arati (worship with lights) at the temple, hoping to witness the miracle.

Gunmen kill 23 in Hindu temple Tuesday, September 24, 2002 Posted: 1:24 PM EDT (1724 GMT) [Picture caption: The temple was visited by former U.S. President Bill Clinton last year.] NEW DELHI, India (CNN) -- At least 23 people, including four children, were killed when gunmen stormed a Hindu temple in India's western state of Gujarat and opened fire, a top Indian official said. Continued fighting between security forces and the gunmen is being reported by government officials. The gunmen are "most likely on the roof" of Swaminarayan temple in Gandhinagar, said Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani. In addition to the children, 13 men and six women were killed and 30-40 people were injured when at least two men stormed the temple, Advani told reporters. Security forces evacuated about 500 people from the temple complex, Advani said. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee is expected to cut short his trip to Maldives and return home because of the incident. Advani, also the home minister, called the attackers "enemies of the nation." A witness told a local TV channel that he went in the temple shortly after the attack and "pulled out 15 to 20 dead bodies myself." Advani said the gunmen, dressed in plain clothes, got out of a car and jumped a fence before killed a woman and a temple supervisor. They then entered the temple and began firing and tossing grenades, he said, adding they appeared to be armed with AK-47s. Advani said Gujarat state is on high alert. He appealed for calm and said is going to Gujarat from Delhi. In February and March, Gujarat was hit by religious warfare that authorities said left more than 1,000 people, mostly Muslims, dead. New clashes between Hindus and Muslims last weekend left four dead. It was not known whether Tuesday's attack could be linked to Islamic militants who have threatened to sabotage state elections in the Indian-ruled portion of Kashmir. But Advani said it could be that the gunmen "realize the Kashmir elections would strengthen India so they did this to take attention away from elections in Jammu and Kashmir." No one has claimed responsibility.

All cultures of the world are tamasic today to varying degrees. Those that kill each other by the thousands, chop off limbs of their neighbhors, burn people alive, engage in unregulated sexual activity like animals, live unclean lives, etc., are tamasic. According to the degree in which they engage in these activities, we can know their inherent natures. Every culture engages in these activities to some degree, but in some cultures it is more pronounced then in others. And in some places, it is the culture.

If you are a registered member your posts will be dealt with in a gentler manner. Unfortunately many people post unrelated matter as guests, and it clutters the forums. The solution is to sign up as a registered member so we can identify your posts. Your posts have been saved, so if you can show me exactly what in your posts provides evidence that the Assamese were an enslaved race 5,000 years ago, then please tell me so I can repost it. Unfortunately, this is what your posts were about:

Another point we should understand is that slavery has existed in every culture of the world for thousands of years, it is not just a case of the whites against the blacks. The very word "slave" comes from "slav". Slaves originally referred to slavik people, not to blacks, Africans or anyone else. Slavery existed throughout europe, and the slaves were white europeans. Many europeans also sold themselves into slavery by becoming endentured servants in exchange for free passage to America. In Kali-yuga people will always try to exploit others, regardless of race, religion, or nationality. People will exploit with an almost spiritual vision of equality.

Note: I have moved the posts about what the United Liberation Front of Assam has done in 1998, as it is completely irrelavant to this discussion. The discussion should be focusing on slavery in ancient India, not what combing operations the government army did in the 20th century.

Srila Prabhupada is making a statement about a particular culture. He is not speaking about other cultures in that conversation. Yet you conclue that Srila Prabhupada thought only Africans were meant to be slaves. Do you seriously not see your misunderstanding? I say "X is blue." You reply, "How can you say Y isn't blue!" Well I never said Y isn't blue, I never even mentioned Y. I was speaking about X, and said X is blue, not that other things aren't blue. When interpreting language we have to take into account the grammar being used, the context of the conversation, and the actual words being used. You have done none of the three, yet you have reached a conclusion about something that was not even spoken about. You have a misunderstanding. Again you have switched the statement I made. I said they "would", and you changed it to "should". There is a huge difference between these two words. "Would" refers to karmic results that arise due to their unfortunate past actions - by the laws of karma, they would suffer. "Should" means that's what I want them to undergo. You are mistaken, and you are not reading carefully enough. Again, what I said is, "If they are unfortuante [bad karmic reactions] they would have evil kings such as the British or French." You somehow concluded that me or Srila Prabhupada wanted the British to enslave the Africans.

Kiratas are Assamese (those from the Indian state of Assam). This is more evidence that Srila Prabhupada's use of the word slave is not the same as modern usages. The assamese have never literally been enslaved. Prabhupada states:

He never said Africans alone are meant to be slaves. That is your misunderstanding. The African culture is and has been for thousands of years a very tamasic culture, making the overall population shudras by qualification. If they are fortunate, their king would be Dhruva or Prahlada, and they would be greatly fortunate. If they are unfortunate, their king would be the British or French,and they would suffer unlimitedly. Who should the king be? Only someone like Prahlada or Dhruva, who see all living entities as part and parcel of God, and therefore do not try to exploit anyone. Because I have read and studied all of the writings of Srila Prabhupada and know his usage of words. Besides, even in this short conversations he says, "they are treated as family." It should be self-evident.

Even if this bridge isnt the original bridge from previous yugas, it is still important, as it shows the level of advancement the civilization had attained thousands of years ago.

But what I am saying is the servants of the kings did have these rights. Your conception of slaves is in reference to the blacks who were mistreated and killed. Prabhupada's usage is clearly not this, as he mentions they are to be treated as family, protected and maintained. When interpreting someone else's statements, you need to use their definitions of words, and not your own. You are trying to use your definition of slave and then put it into Srila Prabhupada's statements since he uses the same word. If you take Srila Prabhupada's definition of slave or servant, where a king maintains and protects them as his own family member, then yes, those in Africa were meant to take such a service, as it would be for their own welfare and interest. Unfortunately they didnt have the good fortune of such a saintly king (raja-rishi), and as a result they were abused, killed, and underwent much suffering. Their freedom from oppresion has not brought them anything else. In some countries they have democracy (which lincoln refers to as "a terrible form of government"), yet they still kill each other and create man-made disasters such as famine. Ignorant people will use democracy to attack and oppress the minority communities.

Bhakti-prajnana Keshava Maharaj (Srila Prabhupada's godbrother) wrote a booked titled "vaishnava-vijaya" in which he states Siddhartha is not the same buddha as mentioned in the Bhagavatam. I will try to post the section if no one else has it to post.

Furthermore, its not a question of blacks or whites, but of intelligence to act properly. Those who are ignorant should not be given absolute freedom. Just see the situation of the African countries today. They have been fighting civil wars for years and years and years, killing each other for no reason at all. When a country finally puts a stop to their civil war, they attack a neighboring country. Such countries do not deserve absolute freedom to destroy their people. Misuse of their freedom has resulted in countless famines throughout Africa, and the starvation and death of millions of Africans. I would certainly look forward to a saintly king taking over the continent and engaging the majority of the population in productive agricultural work, while treating the workers as part of his own family. He would provide perfect security to everyone, unemployment would cease to exist, famine would be stopped, as well as war. In a peaceful environment, people could begin the process of educating their children so that they could pursue other occupations if they chose. In the meantime, their entire family was maintained and protected, with 100% job security for life.

The simple answer is to study the teachings of Srila Prabhupada and then conclude whether Srila Prabhupada's view was that all blacks in the world should be held as slaves in Alabama picking cotton and getting lynched once in a while; or if perhaps taking a single sentence out of context has led to confusion. The principle is that those who are not intelligent should not be given absolute freedom to destroy themselves and others. In a perfect society, the king takes this as his duty. In corrupt societies of Kali yuga, everyone tries to exploit others. Even today in India people will do anything to get a government job. They are willing to become modern slaves to the government because of the security involved with such a job. They will be taken care of for life, even when they are no longer fit to work (through pension, retirement bonuses, etc.) In many cases, their children will be given their same job when they retire. A government job in India is many people's dream. That was the case with servents in Vedic India. They would be protected and maintained for their entire life, enjoying oppulences they could never dream of, simply because they were serving a king.

First, the original Lanka is 800 miles south of India, whereas Ceylon is 30 or so miles South of India. Second, the southern tip of India in previous ages extended much further South. In the ancient Tamil writings it is described how there were three Madurais, which were moved North as the land sank into the ocean. So even the figure of 800 miles is not enough, as we do not know exactly where the 800 miles begins (though it is further south then Kanyakumari of today). Third, Lanka sank into the ocean and does not exist as an island anymore. Ceylon of today was just a mountain in Tamil Nadu thousands of years ago. As the waters moved inland, it became submerged with the peak forming an island.

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The name of the work is Gita-Mahatmya (glorification of the Gita). There is another Gita-Mahatmya found within the Padma Purana, which explains the importance of each of the 18 chapters. Though named the same, they are unrelated.