Jahnava Nitai Das

Consciousness-wise the fish are higher than plants, but from the aspect of evolutionary trasnmigration, fish come prior to plants. Here is a statement from Srila Prabhupada explaining this: "Because in the beginning the whole planet was covered in water. The water is drying up and gradually land is coming out. So therefore in the beginning the aquatics, jalaja nava-laksani. So the aquatic animals, they are 900,000 species. Jalaja nava..., sthavara laksa-vimsati. Then trees and plants and herbs and grasses and so many, they are 2,000,000 forms. Then krmayo rudra-sankhyakah. Then insect life, reptile life, 1,100,000. Then paksinam dasa-laksanam, then birds, varieties of birds, 1,000,000. Then pasu, four-legged animals, 3,000,000 types. Then manusah catur-laksani. Then human form of life, uncivilized and civilized, that human form of life 400,000." The process of evolutionary trasnmigration goes from lower to higher realms of existence, beginning first in the water, then to land, and finaly to the sky and space.

Plant life is lower than fish, and this has been confirmed by Chaitanya in his division of moving/non-moving living entities (refer Chaitanya-charitamrita). Unless you have a particular verse to offer which states fish to be consciously lower than plants, there is no basis for this argument. Anyone can say anything, but they should substantiate their claims. Until their claims have been substantiated, there is no reason to attempt a rebuttal. "Mammal" is a modern classification that has no connection to the scriptures (on which the "levels of species' consciousness" discussion is based). It is illogical and wrong to base a discussion on scripture and then quote modern biology as the basis of conclusion. The scriptural division is "aquatics" ("jala-ja", those born in water). It encompases all water born animals, including whales. Your friend is not properly understanding the scriptural divisions.

The best policy is to carry your own food on the flights. We cant trust the air hostesses very much. Sometimes they put the wrong sticker on the meal, and they give a non-veg meal to someone who ordered vegetarian. Also sometimes the previous "Veg sticker" is still stuck to the tray, so they may mix it up. And do they poke those holes into the tin foil with the same fork (or whatever they use) on all meals? They may be poking a stick into a beef meal, and then poking it into your veg meal. And who prepares the food originally? Is there any guarantee they are not mixing things up in their factory, accidentally putting non-veg ingredients into something that is supposed to be Veg? And who knows what is their definition of vegetarian? Thats probably the worst part. Some will include eggs, some will include fish. The safest bet is to order a Jain meal, but then again you have the same problems mentioned above. Generally whatever we eat, we will be accumulating sin, so the best thing is to prepare something simple that we can carry with us, and offer it to Krishna before we travel. Undertake a little austerity for 24 hours and eat the bare minimum. Personally on airplanes I loose my apetite when I see (and smell) the person next to me eat his Beef Special.

I just recalled that nearly all cooking pots in India are made from Aluminum (because they are cheaper than the stainless steel ones). Most people cook using an aluminum pressure cooker. Perhaps its the turmeric they eat that keeps the cases down.

Thakura Bhaktivinoda in Krsna Samhita 8.22 (verse and purport): sampradaya-virodho 'yam davanalo vicintyate The eleventh obstacle for the Vaisnavas is sectarianism, which takes the shape of the forest fire. Due to sectarianism a person cannot accept anyone outside of his own group as a Vaisnava, and as a result he faces many obstacles in finding a guru and associating with sincere devotees. Therefore extinguishing the forest fire is most important by giving up this mentality.

This verse is quoted in Hari-bhakti-vilasa.

There were no soda cans in India until a few years ago. Even now they are too expensive for general people to buy, so everyone buys bottled drinks. Could there be a connection?

sad guruh svasritam sishyam varsham ekam parikshayet rajni ca amatyaja doshah patni papam sva bhatari tatha sishyarjitam papam guruh prapnoti nishcitam "A sat-guru should examine a candidate who is staying under his shelter for at least one year. It is his duty, for as the sins acquired by the queen go to the king (since the wive's sins are transferred to the husband), in that very way, the sins acquired by the disciples are surely achieved by the genuine spiritual master."

The thread is in the Friendly Marketplace forum. Its a thread started by Mahaksa somewhere at the beginning.

I am very surprised the Vatican was so quick to accept a claimed miracle from India. In India even I could get a doctor to say I performed a miracle and cured one of their patients. This doesn't make the catholic church look very good, and it brings in to doubt all the other miracles they may have accepted in the past.

Here is the easy way to insert bold: Put [ b ] before the text you want bold, and [ / b ] after the text.

That was a good line theist. I was laughing for a couple minutes.

In the mantra-shastra you will find reference to the thousands of permutations of each gayatri mantra based on different aspects of worship. There is absolutely nothing unusual that mantras will have different bijaksharas or other aspects. I would suggest you look into this more before judging what is authentic and what is not. These saintly people who have been giving these mantras for decades truly know much more about these subjects than you think. Your several years of exposure to eastern thought still leaves you lacking in certain aspects of knowledge, so you should be careful to ridicule topics you have not studied. Personally I take the dust of the great Vaishnavas on my head, regardless of their object of worship or lineage. Their instructions are my life and soul. Sri Ramanuja met Gauranga in Navadvipa and engaged in direct worship of Mahaprabhu, so where is the question of him not being someone whom we should follow. On what basis do you decide who is a mahajana of the past (whom we shouldn't follow) and who is a mahajana of the present (whom we should follow). And why do you think others should accept your view on defining who falls under what category of mahajana? So basically you are saying you have violated the injunctions of the Goswami Pustakams by revealing your guru to others in this forum. And you accuse Muralidhar of committing an equally terrible sin. Perhaps you both need to perform some prayascitta to attone for this maha-papam. But I won't bring it up because I had revealed the name of my worshipful Lord Sri Krishna in past messages. So I am equally guity of these heinous sins. There are certain rules which are given in these pustakams to satisfy ritualistic practitioners. The saragrahi vaishnava knows the essence of these instructions and aims to accomplish their purpose. Do we all perfectly follow the Goswami's injunctions and procedures on brushing our teeth? Do we know how to properly bathe to purify ourselves and make us fit internally and externally for sadhana? Do we avoid sinful foods such as eggplant? There are plenty of things which some of us may not follow in the Goswami's Pustakams. We should know the essence and mood of the Goswami's and of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and apply those injunctions which will please them, not just the external rituals. We must aim at their inner mood.

The sat-guru can never be institutionalized. The link between a disciple and such a liberated soul is spontaneous and natural. It requires no external confirmation from governing organizations. The liberated soul does not get identified by votes or public opinion. Nor is he "certified" or "authorized". The tradition of guru and shishya has existed for countless millions of years. It has carried on through many past Kali-yugas, and it has withstood the test of time. All the revealed scriptures speak unanimously in a single voice on this topic. We must approach a self-realized soul and receive personal guidance from him. In the Upanishads we find examples of such fortunate souls who found liberated souls to enquire from. The Upanishads are nothing but conversations between self-realized souls and self-realizing souls. Those conversations must take place for us to develop our spiritual potential. Those ancient seekers could have simply referred to the past scriptural passages, but they knew it was not sufficient, for "the absolute truth cannot be known through study of the Vedas". Thus they approached realized souls, and humbly enquired from them about the Absolute Truth. Only personal association with a liberated saint, sadhu-sanga, has the potency to deliver factual realization to us. We are each responsible for our own spiritual destinies. We are free to associate with and enquire from anyone on the planet. Do not place blame on this group or that institution. It is our own fault who we decide to enquire from, or who we decide to accept as a spiritual authority. Krishna is in all of our hearts. When He sees we are sincere He will guide us to a sat-guru, from whom we can enquire just as the seekers of the past enquired from the liberated souls.

What about homemade sprouts? I think they should be clean. We make them from whole moong dahl wrapped in a wet cloth.

I think the use of the word "harinama" in this discussion is different by each person, thus there really is no communication. In Gaudiya Matha lines, Harinama is considered a diksha, as is mantra diksha. Whereas you are using it as just hearing a sound, like listening to a bhajan cassette or something. When each side holds a different meaning to the word,there is no point communicating with those words. You will write something, and we will read it as something else; we will write something, you will read it as something else. If someone accidentally hears a "diksha-mantra" playing on a loud speaker, are they initiated? Of course not. Initiation, either harinama-diksha, or mantra-diksha, has nothing to do with hearing the mantra. It has everything to do with the guru accepting and blessing the disciple (which automatically plants the seed in his heart). A deaf man can receive diksha as well by the blessings of the guru, despite not hearing anything. Thus simply hearing someone chant harinama while walking by is not harinama-diksha, nor is hearing a mantra necessarilly diksha.

Primarily they smoked ganja, which is forbidden in vaishnava scriptures.

<center> <h3>Disciplic Succession (Sampradaya)</h3> <h4>by His Divine Grace Om Visnupad</h4> <h4>Srila Bhakti Promod Puri Goswami</h4> </center> The meaning of 'sampradaya' is defined as knowledge descending in the chain of consecutive spiritual masters. Other than this definition it can be used to denote societies, associations and groups of people. Srimad Baladeva Vidyabhusana, in his "Prameya Ratnavali", has written: <blockquote> bhavati vicintya vidusa niravakara guru parampara nityam ekantitvam sidhyati yayodayati yena haritosah</blockquote> That the learned scholars and devotees should always meditate on the bona fide disciple succession. Only by doing likewise can one maintain himself as an unalloyed devotee of the Lord and will become the recipient of the mercy of the Supreme Lord. The constant discussion of the exemplary pure devotional conduct of the predecessor "Acaryas" will result in the purification of the heart of the disciple. Consequently, only in the unalloyed role of the servant of the servant can the purified disciple be freed from false ego and earn the grace of the Supreme Lord. The unalloyed devotees are the beloved of Sri Hari and specifically those in direct obedience to them, without the least form of artifice can hope to attain the mercy of the Lord. This is the prime reason why the initiated disciple should always meditate with faith on the disciplic succession. Srila Baladeva Prabhu too has enlightened us of his own spiritual roots in his book "Prameya Ratnavali". In that book he has mentioned two important verses for discussion, from Padma Purana. <blockquote> sampradaya vihina ye mantraste viphala matah ata kalau bhavisyanti catvarah sampradayinah sri brahma-rudar-sanaka vaisnavah ksiti pavanah catvarste kalau bhavya utkale purusottamat</blockquote> Meaning : The holy formula (mantra) that is received without the proper disciplic succession will never bear any fruit. This is why in this age Kali, four great souls will emerge and establish the different Vaishnava successions in the form of Sri Brahma, Rudra and the four Kumaras. The four great leaders will begin to manifest their four authorized disciplic successions from the holy Dham of Puri. Originally, Sri Laksmi Devi had given this sacred knowledge to Ramanujacarya, Lord Brahma to Sri Madhva, Rudra to Visnu Swami and the Four Kumaras to Nimbarkacarya. They, after being endowed with spiritual knowledge, promulgated their own individual disciplic successions. There is no chance of perfection of the mantra received if no implicit obedience to the previous spiritual masters exists. Thus the four great spiritual masters have preached the different tenets of Vaishnava philosophy accordingly namely, non-duality with particular attributes (Visisitadvaita) by Ramanjua, pure duality (suddhadvaita) of Sri Madhva, pure non-duality (suddhadvaita) of Vishnu Swami and instantaneous oneness and difference (dvaitadvaita) of Nimbarka Swami.</p> Sri Ramanuja, who propagated the principles of visitadvaita was born in Sri Perembudure about 13 crores from Madras. He lived to a ripe old age of 120 years old propagating the worship of Sri Laksmi Narayana. Sriman Madhva was born in Udupi and he, preaching the doctrine of pure duality also stressed the aspect of devotion to Sri Krishna as the ultimate. The one who inaugurated pure Non-duality was reputed to have been born in the Andra Province of South India. He outlined service to Sri Radha Krishna as his main theme. Acarya Nimbarka was born in Mungera Pattan village, of the devout couple Aruni Rsi and Jayanti Devi and he propagated the philosophy of devotional service to Krishna with his base as the philosophy of Simultaneous Oneness and Difference. Many scholars have pointed out Sri Visnu Swami to have his roots other than that above mentioned Andra Province. Actually, a few of such persons have been specifically attributed to that name. Whatever the conflicting opinions are on this issue, the four great leaders, taking shelter of Lord Jagannatha in Puri dhama have begun to preach their various doctrines according to their disciplic succession. Srimad Krsnadeva Vedantavagisa, in his commentary on Sri Vidyabhusana's "Prameya Ratnavali" has written: "Without have recourse to the holy syllables (mantra) received through the bona fide spiritual master as well as the proper disciplic succession have been stressed. Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, a prominent Gaudiya Vedanta scholar, has shed light on this disciplic succession.</p> The most worshipable Srila Prabhupada writes: Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, a great Vedantic scholar has admitted himself to belonging to the Lord Brahma disciplic lineage. Lord Sri Krishna was the original spiritual master, His disciple was Lord Brahma. Lord Brahma's disciple was Narada Rsi. Then on to Sri Vyasadeva whose disciple was Sri Madhva. From Sri Madhva the succession continued through Sri Akshobya, Sri Jayatirtha, Sri Jnana Sindu, Sri Daya Niddhi, Sri Vidya Nidhi, Sri Rajendra, Sri Jaya Dharma, Sri Purusottama then to Sri Brahmanya to Sri Vyasatirtha, Sri Lasmipati and finally to Sri Madhavendra Puri. Srila Madhavendra Puri's distinguished disciples were Isvara Puri, Sri Nityananda and Sri Advaita. The illustrious disciple of Sri Isvara Puri, Lord Caitanyadeva spread the message of love of Godhead as the highest goal throughout the world. Most of the renunciates of Sri Madhva were with one staff (ekadandi). And were titled "Tirtha Swami" in addition to their names. However, Sri Madhavendra was not of this category being titled Puri Goswami. The inference here is that he would have taken his renounced order from the Impersonalist groups, having that title (Puri Goswami), while his initiation and learning were definitely derived from the Madhavaites. In Bhakti Ratnakara, there is mentioned that Sri Nityananda Prabhu took shelter of Laksmipati for spiritual guidance. The main renounced devotees of the Madhva lineage were all denoted by this title "Tirtha Swami". Some of the imposters disciplic groups seem to have cast some doubts on the lineage of Sri Madhva but their suspicions are baseless and due to sheer ignorance. The evidence illustrated in books like Gaura Ganodesa Dipika, Bhakti Ratnakara, Prameya Ratnavali and also works of Sri Gopal Guru Goswami, all are in close agreement and testify to the disciplic lineage of Sri Madhva. The Sri Gopal Purvatapani Sruti proves that Lord Brahma was the disciple of Lord Krishna. That Sri Madhva was the disciple of Sri Vyasadeva is a noted historical fact (see life history of Madhva).</p> Once, it has been said that some discussions were going on with Madhva and other Sankarite scholars at Markanikaya ghat, all of them who were observing vows of fasting. Suddenly from the sky, like a blue cloud, Sri Vyasadeva appeared in the presence of all as witness and rejected all Sankara's ideology while accepting the philosophy of Sri Madhva. Srimad Baladeva Prabhu has formulated nine proverbial statements, which have been verified by Sriman Mahaprabhu in His instructions to His close followers and which are accepted as the supreme principles of Vedanta philosophy, Sri Madhva states:</p> <blockquote> (i) Lord Vishnu is the Supreme Entity</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (ii) He is the Absolute Knower of all things</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (iii) The material universe is real</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (iv) The living entity is different from Lord Visnu</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (v) All the living entities are the servants of the Lord Hari</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (vi) There are two types of living entities (i)conditioned (ii)liberated souls</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (vii) Liberation is in attaining to the lotus feet of Lord Vishnu</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (viii) Liberation is possible only after living entities take to the transcendental service of the Supreme Lord</p> </blockquote> <blockquote> (ix) Direct evidence, inference and knowledge from scriptures are three types of proof</p> </blockquote> These nine 'Prameyas' were later propagated by Lord Caitanya as part of the Gaudiya Vaisnava doctrines. They are natural evidence in concord with Vedanta Sutra. These 'Prameyas' were not concocted by the author of 'Prameya Ratnavali' but were taken from Sri Madhva himself. The ancient verse beginning with "Sri Madhva Mate Hari paratamah satyam jagat" means, by the philosophy of Sri Madhva, Lord Hari is the Supreme Truth, the material universe though apparently real is different and a transformation of His energy. There are innumerable living entities and all are ultimately servants of Lord Hari. They, by their different endeavors and by results of their actions attain to either high or low positions. The living entities, forgetting their eternal service to Lord Krishna by aversion to Him, have become entangled by material nature. This aversion has led them to ignorantly identify themselves as human beings or demigods e.c.t. By giving up such aversion, and becoming established in one's constitutional position in service to Lord Hari marks the dawn of liberation. When one is situated at the lotus feet of Lord Vishnu because of being naturally engaged in his original identity as eternal servitor of the Lord he becomes liberated. Pure devotion means to be free from all selfish desires related to fruitive activity, independent search for knowledge, etc. This itself entails liberation. The three types of proof are (i) Revealed scriptural knowledge(ii) Inference (iii) Direct evidence . That Sriman Mahaprabhu accepted the philosophy of Sri Madhva to be consistent with the axioms of the Vedanta, is clear from the writings of Sri Baladeva Prabhu.</p> Nevertheless, Srila Krsnadas Kaviraja, in the 9th chapter of Madhya lila of Sri Chaitanya Charitamrta has given an interesting account of the discussion between the Madhavites and Sriman Mahaprabhu. We can gather from this that the Madhavites strictly believed in the adherence to the formal varna-asrama system and the surrendering of the fruits of one's honest work to Lord Krsna as part of their devotional practice. Therefore this process would enable them in the end to attain the five-fold liberation and attain to the desired spiritual Vaikuntha planets. Sriman Mahaprabhu, by using the verse from the Srimad Bhagavatam 'sravanam kirtanam vishnu smaranam" as evidence, had demonstrated to them that hearing and chanting are the most important practices in respect to attainment of the pure objective, love of Godhead.</p> He gave this verdict to Srimad Raghuvaryatirtha Swami, the scholar of the Madhavites: "Hearing and chanting, which are part of the nine limbs of devotion service, leads to devotion to Sri Krishna, which is the fifth and most supreme goal of human life while the other four are simply cheating tendencies. Prema or love of Godhead is free from all such faults. Fruitive work, or the surrender of the fruits of such work can never lead directly to love of God. Nonetheless, by that path, the mind becomes gradually purified and can induce one to honor and adore the saintly people, giving rise to faith in the process of pure devotion. This means that faith in the hearing and chanting of the Holy Names etc. is primary and will lead one to the goal directly. To the extent that the gross and subtle impurities are nullified in a person, In that measure can love be instilled in one's heart. In conclusion, love of God is never generated by surrender of one's fruits of work. Love is dependent on the mood of self-surrender and submission of the individual which is only evolved by association of the saintly devotees. Hence the pure devotee rejects all ideas of liberation stemming from fruitive work and knowledge, shunning these as unfavorable to pure devotion. If these two are your aspired means and the goals as you have pointed out then it is my belief that you are saying this only to tease me"</p> After hearing the humble tones of Sriman Mahaprabhu's speech, the leader of the Madhavites, lowered his head in shame. Sriman Mahaprabhu was the "Acarya" in pure devotional conclusions and He went on to say, "the fruitive worker and Salvationists are devoid of devotion and it seems to me that your disciplic succession seem to stress their very two processes which is works and knowledge. Nonetheless, I see one exceptional positive quality in your succession, in that you believe in the blissful form of the Deity as the Supreme Lord." Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written on this aspect:</p> "Sriman Mahaprabhu tells the leader of the Madhavites, "Your philosophy is generally in contradiction to pure devotional conclusions but I see one outstanding supporting truth, the eternality of the Supreme Lord and the acceptance of the deity form as non-different from Him." The Purport of this statement implied that my grand spiritual master, Sri Madhavendra Puri in recognizing this outstanding feature of the acceptance of the blissful Deity form, has for this reason accepted the disciplic line of Madhavites. Srila Jiva Gosvami has eulogized Sri Madhva in "Tattva Sandarbha' by writing: 'Madhva caranaih' which is plural tense (bahu cachan). Srila Baladeva's commentary on that same book runs: "The Srimad Bhagavat was highly worshipped by Sri Madhva. Sri Sankara had no chance to misconstrue the meanings of this book. Still, his disciple named Punyaranya who wrote a commentary based on Impersonalism or monistic ideals did cause many devotees (Vaishnavas) to deviate after reading the said commentary, by becoming attracted to it. Sri Madhva, to dismiss their deviant monistic ideals and to lead the devotees back on the proper path, had written a very concisive commentary on the Bhagavatam counteracting the said deviant propositions. Hence the word "Madhva caranaih" as quoted in this sense, not only signifies great respect for Sri Madhva but also refers him as the proper predecessor Acarya in the disciplic line. Sri Madhva was the incarnation of the Wind God, Vayu himself in person. He is all knowing and not able to be surpassed. It is said, at one time, he defeated a very eminent scholar who was the head of the fourteen Maths in less than an hour. The scholar bowed down to his feet as a disciple and became renowned by the name of "Sri Padmanabha." In Srila Jiva Gosvami's commentary "Tattva Sandarbha" (26^th chapter) for the word :"tattva vada gurunam" Srila Baladeva has written:</p> <blockquote> sarvam vastu satyam iti vadastattva vadastad upadestrnam ity arthah </blockquote> Meaning: By the inconceivable potency of the Lord, the particular transcendental Supreme object is non-different from its attributes. The potency of the Supreme Lord is the living entity and the material nature is a reflection of the spiritual energy. There are indeed both similarities and differences between the Supreme Lord and the living entity, also between the spiritual potency and material nature, all of which are inconceivable. The foundation and philosophy of the Gaudiya devotees is this principle of Inconceivable Oneness and Differences ("acintya bheda-abheda"). The point that Sri Madhva had accepted this in the start reinforces his unbroken connection with the Gaudiya devotees. From the texts of Sri Madhva, Sri Jiva Gosvami has collected much back up evidence for Gaudiya Vaisnavism, far more in comparison to that of any of other Vaishnava leaders. Though Sri Madhva did receive the renounced order (sannyasa) from the Sankarites at the age of twelve years, he never did support the monistic ideals of Sankara. He received initiation as "Purna Prajna", from Acyuta Preksa, his spiritual master, who later was converted by becoming is own very disciple! In Badarikasrama, he met Vyasadeva face to face, and after receiving his sublime instructions, began to engage in the service and worship of 18 Salagramas at his behest. One day, while Sri Madhva was bathing in the ocean, he managed to discover in huge block sandalwood (candana), from which a beautiful Deity of the younger boy Sri Krsna emerged. Later, He began to worship this Deity along with the 18 Salagramas, side by side in Udipi. Sri Madhva was the disciple of Sri Vyasadeva, similarly Sri Vyasadeva was the disciple of Narada Rsi (evidence from Bhagavatam 1/4) and Narada Rsi was the disciple of Lord Brahma (Bhag. 2 / 7 / 51). Further, in Brahma Samhita, Gopal Tapani Smrti and Srimad Bhagavatam, Lord Brahma is illustrated to be the disciple of Sri Krishna: As Sri Krishna tells Uddhava in S.B (11 / 11 / 3):</p> <blockquote> kalena nasta pralaye vaniyam vedasmjnita mayadau brahmane proktah dharma yasyam madatmakah</blockquote> Meaning: In the Vedas, My nature and qualities are described. When this by the influence of time, becomes lost as in the periodic annihilation of the world, I again at the beginning of creation, give this knowledge t Lord Brahma. The Manduka Smrti (1 / 1 / 1) has described: <blockquote> brahma devanam prathamah sarva bhuva visvasya karta bhuvanasya gopta sa brahma vidyam sarva vidya pratistam arthvaya jyesta putraya praha </blockquote> Meaning: Lord Brahma is the maintainer and creator of the material universe of living and non-living things and chief of all the demigods. He was born from the lotus navel of Sri Narayana, and is the foremost in all scriptural knowledge which he delivered in essence to his eldest son: Atharva: Rig Veda Samhita gives this verse: <blockquote> om tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayoh diviva caksuratatam</blockquote> Meaning: The abode of Lord Visnu is effulgent like the sun and this transcendental abode of the Lord is perceived by the devotees eternally (Vaishnavas). The devotees of the Supreme Lord re perfect recipients of this knowledge of brahma vidya. In the Srutis many verses are there which states that the Supreme Lord was originally present as the cause of all causes and the One Non-dual Absolute Truth. From Manduka Sruti ) 1 / 1 / 13).</p> <blockquote> tasmai sa vidan anupasanaya samyak prasanta cittaya saman vitaya yena ksaram purusam veda satyam pravaca tam tattvato brahmavidyam</blockquote> Meaning: The one who understands Sri Krishna is Guru. With obedience to the proper rules from scriptures, the inquisitive disciple who approaches him with a serene mind, completely controlled and freed from attachment to material objects is awarded the knowledge called brahma vidya, by which the Supreme Lord can b known in truth. From the above statements of Sruti we can understand that this Brahma disciplic chain is from ancient times. Lord Brahma himself has obtained his transcendental instructions from Lord Krishna and right down to this present period, the knowledge had descended through the disciplic line intact.</p> Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, in reply to the question of why this disciplic succession had come about, in Jaiva Dharma comments: "In this world many have become deviant by the force of monistic ideals, [impersonalism]. Without a proper disciplic chain, no possibility of association or guidance from the right sources can be obtained. It is for this reason Padma Purana has emphatically declared that the mantra obtained without a disciplic chain bears no fruit. Of the four accepted disciplic chains, the Brahma Sampradaya is most ancient. This disciplic lineage is still being in continuance from long ago. Srimad Kavikarnapura has compiled from the Gaura Ganodesa Dipika the formula of the exact succession of the Brahma disciplic lineage of spiritual masters: Lord Brahma was the disciple of Lord Narayana and his disciple was Narada; from Sri Narada Rsi to Sri Vyasadeva."</p> It has been mentioned that the son of Vyasadeva was Sukadeva Gosvami, who, though being a self-realized souls from birth, began to be attracted to learning the Srimad Bhagavatam after hearing a few selected verses from the lips of his father. In due course, he studied the Srimad Bhagavatam from his father and therefore is considered as a disciple of Srila Vyasadeva. The most famous Madhvacarya also took his initiation from Sri Vyasadeva and his disciplic lineage has descended in the following order:</p> Sri Padmanabha, Sri Nara Hari, Sri Madhava Vipra, Sri Akshobhya, Jaya Tirtha, Sri Jnana Sindhu, Sri Dayaniddhi, Sri Rajendra, Sri Jaya Dharma, Sri Purusottama, Sri Brahmanya, Sri Vyasatirtha, Sri Laksmipati, Sri Madhavendra Puri</p> Srila Madhavendra Puri established pure devotional ideals and hid disciple was Sri Isvara Puri. Lord Gaura-sundara, taking Srila Isvara Puri as his spiritual master, has inundated all the worlds with the wealth of love of Godhead. The disciple of Srimad Vrakresvara Pandita, Srimad Gopal Guru Gosvami, has accepted this succession of spiritual master in this manner. Also the disciple of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, Srila Narahari Thakura, has in his book Bhakti Ratnakara, verified this disciplic succession. Our prominent Acaryas, the worshipable Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura have shown themselves to be cent-per cent for the disciplic line described by Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana. In this regard, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura comments:</p> "The Brahma disciplic line is the path recognized by all the followers of Lord Caitanya. This information has been obtained in accordance with the evidence of the book 'Gaura Ganodesa Dipika' of Srila Kavikarnapura, written in proper sequence and has been verified by Srila Vidyabhusana. One who does not accept this succession is definitely the foremost enemy of the Gaudiya Vaishnavites."</p> Further in the book "Sriman Mahaprabhu Siksa", Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written:</p> "The philosophy of Sri Nimbarka which is Oneness and Difference, was not complete in itself as being most ideal. But by the teachings of Sriman Mahaprabhu, however, this knowledge has become complete. Lord Gaurasundara accepted the lineage of Sri Madhva because of their firm acceptance of the Deity form of the Lord which is deemed completely existent, cognizant and blissful and non different form the Supreme Lord. From this fact, the instantaneous Oneness and Difference principle is validated for it is the root of this contention. Though the principle of pure devotion is always the same, the non-conformity in detail manifested itself in the arise of these four different disciple successions. Sriman Mahaprabhu has synthesized all these different philosophies in the most proper context by taking form Sri Madhva his concept of the eternal Deity form, the concept of difference energies of the Lord from Sri Ramanuja, from Vishnu Swami, his concept of the non-duality and worship of the paraphernalia of the lord and also Sri Nimbarka's philosophy of Oneness and Difference was inculcated, all in turn becoming most relevant, with the original underlying principles of instantaneous, Inconceivable Oneness and Difference. Very soon, only one authorized disciplic chain will remain by the name "Sri Brahma-Sampradaya". All the others will merge under this banner. The 'Sri Brahma-Madhva- Gaudiya lineage of pure spiritual masters or guru parampara is defined in this fashion. As before Lord Krishna-Brahma-Narada-Vyasa-Madhva down the line to Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu."</p> <h3>Bhagavat Guru Parampara</h3> <ul> [*]Lord Krishna---Lord Brahma---Narada Muni [*]---Sri Vyasa---Sri Padmanabha---Narahari [*]---Sri Madhava Vipra---Sri Akshobhya---Jaya Tirtha [*]---Sri Jnanasindhu---Sri Dayaniddhi---Vidyanidhi [*]---Sri Rajendra---Sri Jaya Dharma---Sri Purusottama [*]---Sri Brahmanayatirtha---Sri Vyasatirtha [*]---Sri Laksmipati---Sri Madhavendra Puri [*]---Sri Isvara Puri---Lord Chaitanya---Sri Rupa, [*]---Sri Sanatana (Six Gosvamis) [*]---Srila Krsnadas Kaviraja Goswami [*]---Srila Narottama Das Thakura [*]---Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana [*]---Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji [*]---Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura (Siksa Guru); ---- Srila Gaura Kishore Das Babaji (Diksa Guru) [*]---Sri Srila Prabhupada In this context, many people accepting Sriman Mahaprabhu's position as the initiator of this Gaudiya disciplic line however fail to accept that His succession was connected with Sri Madhva. Our opinion here is that simply accepting Sriman Mahaprabhu does not mean the individual's sense of judgment and decorum has exceeded that of the Supreme Lord Gauranga. The inauguration of any disciplic line is completely His potency and not without His mercy. He is Lord Krishna Himself, the origin of all expansions and the original Guru. The Supreme Lord has accepted the Brahma disciplic succession, in His exhibition of the pastimes of Lord Gauranga as a pure devotee to set the proper code of action for all the masses. He, by means of implicit obedience to the spiritual master in that succession, has also exhibited the model behavior of proper service to the spiritual master. Lord Krishna Himself, in His variegated pastimes showed remarkable steadfastness in service to Sandipani muni. All this did no make Him less the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sriman Mahaprabhu in accepting this lineage of Sri Madhva has illuminated to us the proper disciplic line from Brahma. Though, some points of Sri Madhva's teachings, such as the overly reliance on work and knowledge as the ends and means, and that of Maha Laksmi and the Vraja gopis may not be in proper conformity the the Gaudiyas, Nevertheless, we have to honor the instructions and example of Sriman Mahaprabhu, the Supreme Lord.</p> The youngest son of an intimate disciple of Sriman Mahaprabhu, named Sri Sivananda Sena was Parmananda Das who used to be affectionately called Puri Das by the Lord. For at an infant state, he once sucked the toe of the Lord. This same Puri Das, at an age of only seven years, quoted this Sanskrit verse in an erudite manner.</p> sravasoh kuvalayah aksnor anjananmuraso mahendra manidama etc. .</p> Meaning: Glory to Sri Hari who possesses lotus earrings and adored with collyrium with the Mahendra diamond on His chest and beloved of the damsels of Vrindavana.</p> This extraordinary composition of the young boy left Sriman Mahaprabhu and His associates with joy, filled wonder at such exhibition of scholarship. He later became famous as Kavikarnapur and became famous among the associates of the Lord as prolific poet and scholar. Some of his works include "Ananda Vrindavana Campu", "Gaura Ganodesa Dipika" etc., of which from the latter book, the disciplic succession from Sri Gauri Das Pandit down to Sri Hrydaya Caitanya then onto Sri Syamananda, to Sri Rasikananda to Sri Nityananda and then from Sri Radha Damodar finally to Srimad Baladeva Vidyabhusana is mentioned.</p> Srila Baladeva in his compilation of "Govinda Bhasya", has managed to maintain the dignity of followers of Lord Caitanya by preserving the disciplic succession intact. This is explained with great adoration in the beginning of his commentary on the Vedanta, the Gaudiya Bhasya. Those who neglect the words of great souls as Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Sri Kavikarnapur and Sri Gopal Guru in not accepting the Madhva lineage as part of the Lord Caitanya's Brahma disciplic succession, are great offenders to the lotus feet of these great souls. Srila Krsnadas Kaviraja Gosvami has written:</p> "Madhavendra Puri was the original seed of the tree of love of Godhead and he, in taking the shelter of Sri Laksmipati, has, by necessity , accepted the shelter of Sri Madhva succession. Sri Isvara Puri, the devoted disciple of Sri Madhavendra Puri also was all glorious." There is no other destination for us than this acceptance of the Madhva lineage. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has informed us in his verse, beginning with 'amnaya prabha tattvam harimiha paramam sarva saktim rasabdhim' regarding the secrets of the ten most important truths, one amongst them being the acceptance of the Madhva disciplic succession. "This disciplic succession is gleaned from evidence through the Vedas. The Vedas and corresponding scriptures like Srimad Bhagavatam and Puranic scriptures are direct evidences. From these proofs we can understand that Lord Hari is the Supreme Truth. He is replete with all energies and the ocean of all nectarean mellows. The two types of living entities are His parts and parcels like the liberated and conditional souls. The conditioned soul is engrossed in matter while the liberated soul is free from matter. The spiritual and material worlds are related on this manner by the inconceivable. Oneness and Difference principle of Lord Hari. Devotion as the only means and love of Godhead is the only accomplishment. In conclusion, thereby, the name of our genuine succession is the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya disciplic succession.</p>

I think Prabhupada's use of 85 years has to do with average life expectancy of today, as opposed to the 100 years specified in the Vedas.

And I am sure you will equally agree that the authority of questionable babas who were aversive to Bhaktisiddhanta and who fabricated uncomfirmable stories to discredit Bhaktisiddhanta are also not relevant testimony. Since Bhaktisiddhanta belonged to a sampradaya, whatever mantras he gave (regardless of the source of those mantras) would bear fruit. All auxiliary mantras manifest through sadhana from the bija mantra. The physical whispering of external sound in the ear of a person is not necessary. This verse from Padma Purana does not say what you imply it states. One must receive mantras through the sampradaya. Those mantras do not necessarily have to have been passed down from time immemorial. Mantras are realized through sadhana, thus the worshipper becomes a drashta of the mantra, or the seer of the mantra. This is the tradition, and it has been for thousands of years in all schools of Vedic philosophy. What are the origins of the Gaudiya diksha mantras? How far back in history can they be traced? They were introduced into the sampradaya at a point in time by a drashta.

There have been no requests from anyone who has been banned to again participate in the forums in a decent manner. In the past when they posted they simply criticized forum members endlessly. It can be seen that they continue to do this in the other open forums they participate in. We aren't interested in having a garbage dump here. You can not insult and criticize forum members, and then expect to sneak back in anonymously, waiting for another chance to attack people.

...the same way you decide that what you dont like in Shankara's writings are interpolation. You are holding on to a terrible double standard. When Shankara talks about pouring lead in the ears of a shudra, you claim (without basis) that it is interpolation. Can you show a statement in Shankara's writings where he says Shudras should be taught the Vedas? On the contrary he states the opposite. But you will criticize Jesus for things he never even said. You will quote a passage from the old testament and claim "Jesus said this." But 1) the old testament is not spoken by Jesus, 2) could have been interpolated at later times, 3) there was no bible during Jesus's time. Here are the facts: 1) Shankara speaks negatively about shudras. 2) The Puranas speak negatively of Shudras. 3) The Dharma-shastras speak negatively of shudras. 4) The Niti-shashtras speak negatively about shudras. 5) The Bhagavad Gita speaks negatively about shudras. 6) All of these books were preserved in libraries in South India, and protected from the Muslims. 7) Karthik doesn't like to speak negatively about Shudras, so books in categories 1 - 6 must all be interpolated. 8) The present bible is a perfect representation of what Jesus taught, and therefore we should criticize him based on things he never said. Thats the double standard I am talking about. You should at least have the strength to criticize Shankara along the same lines as Jesus, or people will simply interprete your stance as religious intolerance. Everyone likes to say my religion is best and all others are false.

I wonder why you are very quick to disregard any statement by Shankara that you are uncomfortable with as interpolation, despite there being no such evidence, yet you would not consider that the teachings of the bible may have been interpolated and not a true representationof Jesus's message.

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