Jahnava Nitai Das

Here is something from B.V. Tirtha Maharaj from another list.

Here is something from Brahma Das on the topic. It was posted to another list, but I thought it was kind of interesting.

The devas carry out their controlling functions spontaneously by their ordinary activities. For example the changing of seasons, the coming of rain, and many other natural occurences are created when particular devas sing a song, dance, or sleep. To some degree they are not even consciously doing it. They are performing their own activities, and the natural arrangement is that it ties into the entire universe.

There are mention of various sacrifices that involve the consumption of animal flesh by the brahmana priests and the king. The aswa-medha yajna is one example, but the same scriptures which describe this yajna also say it is forbidden to be performed in Kali yuga. In Vedic yajnas the animal was not 'killed', but was elevated to a higher body. This was done to prove the efficacy of the brahmanas and the mantras they were chanting. The king was sacrificing huge quantities of gold and other valuables into the fire, and he needed some guarantee that it was actually being delivered to the gods, and not just being burnt up. For this purpose, the brahmana priests would physically demonstrate the efficacy of their mantras by transforming the animal into a gandharva. A horse would enter the fire, and a Gandharva (a heavenly human species) would emerge form the fire. The soul of the horse would be given a higher birth, and it was seen directly by the king. There still remained the karma of the horse to be accounted for. That horse was destined to traverse through many lives before he attained the body of the andharva, so that karma needed to be ballanced. All of those karmic reactions, existing between the horse body and the gandharva body, would remain in the flesh of the horses dead body. It was the duty of the king and the brahmanas to eat that flesh, and there by accept all of the karmic reactions within it. It is described that after eating this flesh, the brahmanas would lose their tejas and no longer be able to perform sacrifice. They would have to perform severe tapasya (austerities) in order to regain their tejas and shakti. The king would likewise have to give his entire wealth away in charity as a means to regain his tejas. Thus the king and brahmanas eating of flesh in the sacrifice was not an enjoyment, but a sacrifice they had to accept. I have heard such statements hundreds of times, but I have yet to locate the verses being referred to. I never came across them while reading it myself. I even have done searches on the internet to gather the various 'references' to these verses. But the funny thing is, when I look in the manuscript, they don't match. What they claim these verses say, and what is written has no connection at all, not even a bit. Perhaps you can locate some valid references, and I will check the verses to verify them. My understanding is that the Valmiki Ramayana does not say Rama ate meat, but another later Ramayana does. I know the Indonesian version of Ramayana says this, but that isn't surprising since they are not vegetarians. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-26-2001).]

Here is an intelligent email someone sent regarding the McDonald's article: Your absolutely right. A proper Hindu, who is supposed to be vegetarian, must be insane to try to buy food in a McDonald's. After all, it is McDonald's, the number one producer of Hamburgers in the world. The problem is that many Hindus who go to the United States stop following their religious customs. For all practical purposes they aren't actually Hindu by belief. Sometimes when such people see an easy opportunity for money, they suddenly become traditional Hindus. If one actually believes it is sinful to kill cows, then why support it by buying food from McDonald's. According to the Hindu scriptures the sin of killing the animal is also had by those who even indirectly assist in the process. Even if there wasn't beef in the fries, the same hands and utensils are used in the preparation process. In a place like McDonald's your food is bound to have some contact with beef, even if you just order a piece of lettuce. Thanks for writing. J.N.Das

Finding a sat-guru has nothing to do with institutions or non-institutions. One needs to go where there is a liberated soul. If that liberated soul likes to chant Krishna's name near the latrine, thats where you have to go. If he likes to chant in a temple, then thats where you have to go. If he likes to chant in an institution, thats where we should go. Just find the liberated soul.

Finding a sat-guru has nothing to do with institutions or non-institutions. One needs to go where there is a liberated soul. If that liberated soul likes to chant Krishna's name near the latrine, thats where you have to go. If he likes to chant in a temple, then thats where you have to go. If he likes to chant in an institution, thats where we should go. Just find the liberated soul.

I think the word I was looking for was "super-fantastic".

The fact is Arjuna received siksha (upadesha) from Krishna. There was no transference of mantras or any diksha ritual. The concept of "parampara" as given in the Gita, and other upanishadic texts is one of siksha, or divine knowledge.

The fact is Arjuna received siksha (upadesha) from Krishna. There was no transference of mantras or any diksha ritual. The concept of "parampara" as given in the Gita, and other upanishadic texts is one of siksha, or divine knowledge.

Here is another persons view. Let's see. The protein in cow's milk is foreign to us, but the protein in cow's meat isn't? Not the brightest argument. Cow's milk is a transformation of the cows blood. I remember many years ago a science documentary that showed cows milk under a microscope and compared it to cows blood. Quite interesting. The Vedic view is that it is better to take the cows "blood" in a nonviolent manner as milk, rather than kill the cows and eat their flesh. Perhaps the difference in cultures is the emphasis on compassion. Eastern religions, whether Hindu, Buddhist, or other sects, tend to stress universal compasion as one of the ideals for man. In India the cow is considered as part of one's family, at least it is supposed to be. And as such it is treated with great respect. Not only cows, but even other lower forms of life are to be respected and protected. For example, it is a traditional custom to draw designs (called 'kolam') in front of one's house every morning with rice flour. The purpose, besides decorating the entrance, is to provide food for the ants that live on one's property. This is part of the pancha-yajnas that a householder must perform. As far as the health effects of meat on humans, that has been sufficiently documented. It is quite clear that meat does cause many health problems, including such cases as cancer. Milk on the other hand does not cause any such problems. It is common among some people to suggest animals should be raised kindly prior to their slaughter. This is quite an absurd suggestion. How can kindness exist where one's ultimate aim is to slaughter an innocent creature for the satisfaction of our tongues, and for the profit it brings. I for one would certainly not want anyone to show me a similar type of "kindness". As the saying goes, "With friends like these, who needs enemies?" Personally I think kindness can be shown in a much better manner. For example, to me kindness would be to allow nature to exist free from the domination of man. Humans may be the caretakers of the planet, but with that position comes a responsibility to protect. Humans are in reality a part of nature, just as the animals and plants are also parts of nature. For there to be harmony in the world, there must be universal love and respect for all living entities. My personal opinion is that mechanized slaughterhouses do not help in increasing man's love and respect towards nature. On the contrary it creates in us a false pride; the concept that we can exploit nature according to our whims. Life is valuable, for once gone it cannot be restored. We should come to respect all life and try to live in harmony with other living entities. The spiritual spark within the animal is no different than that within the man. It possesses the same consciousness, the same feelings; it experiences the same pain as does man; it also has the same ability to love and hate. Though the external body is different, the soul inside is not. Those who can see beyond the external bodily covering, and see the true spiritual self within all living entities will naturally develop love and compassion for all.

Thanks for pointing out the error. I just went through the threads and found about 20 of them that were still write protected. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-25-2001).]

Well the fact is those who compiled "the bible" did leave many Christian books out. Why only those 66 books were accepted as the bible? Thats another interesting topic. Anyone want to bring it up?

This was in reference to the following instructions from the Gita: tri-vidham narakasyedam dvaram nasanam atmanah kamah krodhas tatha lobhas tasmad etat trayam tyajet There are three gates leading to this hell--lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul. vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah Being freed from attachment, fear and anger, being fully absorbed in Me and taking refuge in Me, many, many persons in the past became purified by knowledge of Me--and thus they all attained transcendental love for Me. kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah mahasano maha-papma viddhy enam iha vairinam Lust and anger, being born of contact with the material mode of passion, are the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world. kama-krodha-vimuktanam yatinam yata-cetasam abhito brahma-nirvanam vartate viditatmanam Those who are free from anger and all material desires, who are self-realized, self-disciplined and constantly endeavoring for perfection, are assured of liberation in the Supreme in the very near future. krodhad bhavati sammohah sammohat smrti-vibhramah smrti-bhramsad buddhi-naso buddhi-nasat pranasyati From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool. saknotihaiva yah sodhum prak sarira-vimoksanat kama-krodhodbhavam vegam sa yuktah sa sukhi narah Before giving up this present body, if one is able to tolerate the urges of the material senses and check the force of desire and anger, he is a yogi and is happy in this world.

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Here is something that was in our newsletter awhile back on the ten subjects of Srimad Bhagavatam: The Bhagavata Purana, commonly referred to as the Srimad Bhagavatam, is considered the ripened fruit of all Vedic knowledge. Sri Vyasa Muni, the compiler of the Vedic texts, advises us as follows: nigama-kalpa-taror galitam phalam shuka-mukhad amrita-drava-samyutam nigama bhagavatam rasam alayam muhur aho rasika bhuvi bhavukah "O expert and thoughtful men, relish Srimad Bhagavatam, the mature fruit of the desire tree of Vedic literatures. It emanated from the lips of Sri Shuka Muni. Therefore this fruit has become even more tasteful, although its nectarean juice was already relishable for all, including liberated souls." Srimad Bhagavatam is the galitam phalam, or ripened fruit, of all Vedic knowledge. It is exactly like amrita, for by hearing its recitation we can cross beyond birth and death. The Srimad Bhagavatam describes the various incarnations of Lord Hari, and in the process of these descriptions ten important subject matters are explained, namely sarga (the elemental craetion), visarga (the secondary creation), sthanam (the planetary systems), poshanam (protection by the Lord), utayah (the creative impetus), manvantara (the periods of Manu), isha-anukatha (the science of God), nirodha (dissolution), mukti (liberation), and ashraya (the supreme shelter). The reciters of Srimad Bhagavatam have utilized three methods to explain these ten subjects, namely by vedic reference (shrutena), by direct explanation (arthena), and by summary explanations given by the great sages (anjasa). The following is a brief explanation of each of these ten subjects. 1) Sarga - the elemental creation. Sarga is defined as follows: bhuta-matrendriya-dhiyam janma sarga udahritah "The elemental creation of sixteen principles of matter - namely the five gross elements (pancha-bhutas), the five objects of sense perception (tan-matras), the five knowledge acquiring senses (jnanendriyas) and the mind - is known as sarga." The five gross elements (pancha-bhutas) are earth, water, fire, air and ether; the five objects of sensual perception (tan-matras) are sound, form, taste, smell, and touch; and the five knowledge acquiring senses (jnanendriyas) are the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin. Together with the mind, these sixteen principles are created by the first purusha incarnation, Maha-Vishnu. Within these sixteen principles eight other principles exist subtly, making there a total of twenty-four principles of material existence. 2) Visarga - the secondary creation. Visarga is defined as follows: brahmano guna-vaishamyad visargah paurushah smritah "The secondary creation by Brahma carried out through the interaction of the three modes of nature is known as visarga." By manipulating the sixteen original principles of material existence and by the interaction of the three modes of material nature (sattva, rajas and tamas), Lord Brahma carries out a subsequent creation, more properly described as an assembling of universal ingredients. 3) Sthanam - the planetary systems. Sthanam is defined as follows: sthitir vaikuntha-vijayah "The true situation (sthanam) is the realm of Vaikuntha." The entire creation by the Lord is to enable the conditioned souls to satisfy their material desire to lord over the material energy. As such, according to their desires, the Lord creates a suitable situation (sthanam) for them to dwell in. Within the universe, these situations can be divided into fourteen main categories, known technically as bhuvanas, or planetary systems, and 8,400,000 sub-categories, commonly known as species of life. From the topmost sthanam of Brahma-loka (the abode of Lord Brahma) down to the lowest sthanam of Patala-loka, all situations are destructible. In every situation the conditioned living entity is conquered by birth and death. Only by attaining to our eternal constitutional situation in the spiritual realm of Vaikuntha can we conquer the birth and death of this material world. Thus the true sthanam of the living entity is the realm of Vaikuntha. All other temporary situations within this material world cause one to become a victim of material suffering, simply shifting from one situation to the next. 4) Poshanam - protection by the Lord. Poshanam is defined as follows: poshanam tad anugrahah "Protection (poshanam) is the causless mercy of the Lord." Poshanam can be defined in two ways according to the mentality of the living entity. For the conditioned souls, poshanam refers to material maintenance. It is the Lord who fulfills the desires of all living entities: nityo nityanam chetanash chetananam eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman "The supreme eternal among all eternals, the supremely conscious among all the conscious living entities - it is that supreme one among the many who fufills the desires of all." For the devotees of the Lord, poshanam refers to the Lord's causeless mercy and protection. Protection from hunger is the lowest form of protection, which the Lord offers to the conditioned living entities. For the devotees, the Lord's protection is protection from the illusion of maya. The Lord gives the devotee the strength to always remember Him and engage in His devotional service. 5) Utayah - the creative impetus. Utayah is defined as follows: utayah karma-vasanah "The impetus for activity (utayah) is the desire for fruitive work." The conditioned soul forgets that the Lord is his eternal protector and maintainer, and thus an impetus for fruitive activity is manifested for one's self maintenance. This desire for fruitive activity is the driving force behind all work within this material world. The karma-vasanas are the accumulated residue of one's previous activities. Every material activity we perform creates a residual impresion within our consciousness, which is carried with us life after life. The sum total of these impressions form our creative impetus to work. The true impetus of the living entity should be to go back to Godhead, to the supreme abode of Vaikuntha, and activities performed in that direction form the right path of work. 6) Manvantara - the change of Manus. Manvantara is defined as follows: manvantarani sad-dharma "The reign of the Manus (manvantaras) are for establishing the eternal religious principles." Manu is the father of mankind, the progenitor, empowered to guide the human race towards self-realization. Manu provides revealed scriptures to mankind which regulate their activities in a manner that will be for their eternal welfare. When the living entities accept such a regulated path, the Lord provides them with all protection by which they may attain their constitutional situation in Vaikuntha. Thus the desire to go back to Godhead and regulated activities performed to achieve that goal form the proper path of action. 7) Isha-anukatha - the science of God. Isha-anukatha is defined as follows: avataranucharitam haresh chasyanuvartinam pumsam isha-kathah prokta nanakhyanopabrimhitah "The science of God (isha-anukatha) describes the incarnations of the Personality of Godhead and His different activities together with the activities of His great devotees." The entire material creation is for the ultimate purpose of the living entities' salvation. When the conditioned living entities utilize the creation for secondary purposes, such as material fruitive activity, the Lord incarnates to reclaim these forgetful souls. The Lord directly delivers living entities by His divine appearance as well as by its recorded history. The Supreme Lord is so potent that simpy by hearing about His transcendental activities in His various incarnations one becomes free from material bondage. Thus the topics of the Lord and His devotees, which constitute the science of God, should be given respectful aural reception. 8) Nirodha - the disolution. Nirodha is defined as follows: nirodho 'syanushayanam atmanah saha shaktibhih "The merging of the living entity, along with his conditioned living tendency, with the mystic lying down of the Maha-Vishnu is called the winding up of the cosmic manifestation, or nirodha." As we have briefly mentioned before, the entire material creation offers two facilities to the conditioned living entities. The living entities may either utilize it to fulfill their desire to lord it over material nature, or they may utilize it to go back to Godhead, the spiritual abode of Vaikuntha. For the living entities who take advantage of the science of God as propagated by the Manus, and who develop a desire to act in such a regulated manner, the Lord provides them full protection from the material energy and resituates them in their proper situation in Vaikuntha. For the other living entities, who choose to disregard the science of God, the Lord gives them an interim period of relief at the time of dissolution. This temporary period of relief is technically called nirodha, or the winding up of the cosmic manifestation. All the living entities along with their conditional tendencies (vasanas) merge into the body of Maha-Vishnu to await another creation and another opportunity to take up the science of God. Though the physical bodies are given up at this time, the subtle bodies (sukshma-sariras) remain with the living entities along with their latent desires. This is indicated by the words atmanah saha shaktibhih. 9) Mukti - liberation. Mukti is defined as follows: muktir hitvanyatha rupam sva-rupena vyavasthitih "Liberation (mukti) is the permanent situation of the form of the living entity after he gives up the changeable gross and subtle material bodies." Those living entities who develop a desire to act for their ultimate welfare regulate their life according to the instructions of the Manus. Such living entities receive the mercy and protection of the Lord in the form of His divine activities and incarnations, either personally or in its literary form as the science of God. By hearing the narrations of the Lord's activities these living entities are able to give up all external identification with the principles of material existence and its interaction. Such purified living entities develop their original spiritual bodies and are resituated in their constitutional position in Vaikuntha, the spiritual abode of the Lord. This is technically known as mukti or liberation. The words hitvanyatha rupam indicate that these living entities have become completely free from all material coverings including the sukshma-sarira and related vasanas. The word vyavasthitih indicates the real and eternal sthanam of the living entity - sthitir vaikuntha vijayah. 10) Ashraya - the supreme shelter. Ashraya is defined in the following three verses: abhasash ca nirodhash ca yato 'sty adhyavasiyate sa ashrayah param brahma paramatmeti shabdyate "The supreme one who is celebrated as the Supreme Being or the Supreme Soul is the supreme source of the cosmic manifestation as well as its reservoir and winding up. Thus He is the supreme shelter, the Absolute Truth." yo 'dhyatmiko 'yam purushah so 'sav evadhidaivikah yas tatrobhaya-vicchedah purusho hy adhibhautikah ekam ekatarabhave yada nopalabhamahe tritayam tatra yo veda sa atma svashrayashrayah "The individual person possessing different instruments of senses is called the adhyatmic person, and the individual controlling deity of the senses is called adhidaivic. The embodiment seen on the eyeballs is called the adhibhautic person. All three of the above mentioned stages of different living entities are interdependent. In the absence of one, another is not understood. But the Supreme Being who sees every one of them as the shelter of the shelter is independent of all, and therefore He is the supreme shelter." The Srimad Bhagavata Purana begins with the Vedanta statement "janmady asya yathah" to bring to our attention the supreme source and shelter of all existence - the ashraya-tattva. In order to explain the transcendence of the ashraya the other nine subjects have been explained. In all of existence there are factually only two divisions, namely the dependent (para-tantra) and the independent (sva-tantra). The independent (svarat) refers only to that Supreme Lord invoked in the beginning of Srimad Bhagavatam by the words "om namo bhagavate vasudevaya". Sri Vyasa Muni begins by first offering his obeisances to Bhagavan Sri Krishna (Vasudeva), and then identifies Him as the absolute and independent shelter of everything - janmadyasya yathah svarat satyam param dhimahi. The transcendental Sri Krishna is that tenth subject of Srimad Bhagavatam, and in order to properly describe Him, Sri Vyasa Muni has explained the other nine subject matters. Studied together, these ten subject matters fully establish the Supreme personality of Godhead, Bhagavan Sri Krishna, as the transcendental Absolute Truth. The Vedanta Sutras begin by instructing us to inquire into the nature of the Absolute Truth - atatho brahma jijnasa. This Srimad Bhagavatam is the perfect companion to that inquiry, as it is the natural commentary to the Vedanta Sutras. Both the Vedanta Sutras and the Srimad Bhagavatam begin from the point of understanding the ultimate source of everything. Sri Vyasa Muni, the author of these two texts, begins both with the same verse: janmady asya yathah, "From whom everything emanates." But in the Srimad Bhagavatam he expands and elaborates on this very important philosophical subject in great detail: janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas carthesv abhijnah svarat tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah tejo-vari-mrdam yatha vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mrsa dhamna svena sada nirasta-kuhakam satyam param dhimahi "I meditate upon Lord Sri Krishna because He is the Absolute Truth and the primeval cause of all causes of creation, sustenance and destruction on the manifested universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations, and He is independent because there is no other cause beyond Him. It is He only who first imparted the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of brahmaji, the original living being. By Him even the great sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is bewildered by the illusory representations of water seen in fire, or land seen on water. Only because of Him do the material universes, temporarily manifested by the reactionsof the three modes of nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Sri Krishna, who is eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is forever free from the illusory representations of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the Absolute Truth." Thus Srimad Bhagavatam is the key to unlock the secrets of the Vedanta Sutras. There is no literature in the world as great as this Srimad Bhagavata Purana. The transcendental narations within it give us light in this dark age of Kali yuga: krishne sva-dhamopagate dharma-jnanadibhih saha kalau nashta-drisham esha puranarko 'dhunoditah "This Bhagavata Purana is as brilliant as the sun, and it has arisen just after the departure of Lord Krishna to His own abode, accompanied by religion, knowledge, etc. Persons who have lost their vision due to the dense darkness of ignorance in the age of Kali shall get light from this Purana." [ Note: Those wishing to read Srimad Bhagavatam online can visit http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org ]

But the traditional date for Shankara (according to his biographies) is around 2000 years ago. That should predate the spreading of islam within India.

Personally I would advise people against such an approach. It is not a good policy to respond to intolerance with intolerance. It may be what comes naturally to one's mind at such a time, but we should control our anger as prescribed in the Gita.

Try again now. I had left the write protect (unix permissions) on for the last few threads I transfered from the old server. As a reuslt it probably gave the error. Some other people reported it also. It should be ok now.

You seem to keep missing the point. No one has criticized someone's personal opinion as to what is right and wrong. I am happy if someone believes they have the only truth and everyone else is going to burn in hell. The flaw is when they condemn others for not accepting their world view, and then expect others to change their beliefs simply because they say so. It is odd that you only see intolerance where it doesn't exist, but when there is a case of actual intolerance, it just misses your eagle like vision.

This was posted by Mukunda Datta Das to another list. Since the topic of cows hs come up, I thought I would post it here: <font face=courier> (___) /-----(--) /|\_/ *||ww---|| |||| ^^^^ </font> AhatyAhatya-mUrdhnA drutam anupibataH prasnutaM mAtur UdhaH kiJcit kuJcaika-jAnor anavarata-calac-cAru-pucchasya dhenuH | uttIrNaM tarNakasya priya-tanayatayA datta-huGkAra-mudrA visraGsi-kSIra-dhArA-lavazabala-mukhasyAGgam AtRpti leDhi || "Repeatedly butted by the the head of her calf, a cow moos softly with maternal delight while her calf, one knee somewhat bent, sucks her udder, waving it's tail beautifully; she then licks the upturned face of her calf, whose mouth is sprinkled with droplets of milk." [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-25-2001).]

This was posted by Mukunda Datta Das to another list. Since the topic of cows hs come up, I thought I would post it here: <font face=courier> (___) /-----(--) /|\_/ *||ww---|| |||| ^^^^ </font> AhatyAhatya-mUrdhnA drutam anupibataH prasnutaM mAtur UdhaH kiJcit kuJcaika-jAnor anavarata-calac-cAru-pucchasya dhenuH | uttIrNaM tarNakasya priya-tanayatayA datta-huGkAra-mudrA visraGsi-kSIra-dhArA-lavazabala-mukhasyAGgam AtRpti leDhi || "Repeatedly butted by the the head of her calf, a cow moos softly with maternal delight while her calf, one knee somewhat bent, sucks her udder, waving it's tail beautifully; she then licks the upturned face of her calf, whose mouth is sprinkled with droplets of milk." [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-25-2001).]

No, this isn't true. Sanatana dharma acknowledges many steps on the ladder of self-realization. Though they are not all viewed as the top-rung of the ladder (i.e. the destination), they are all acknowledged as possessing truth in various degrees. Perhaps you should read the privacy policy on this site. Any email sent to the address jndas@ may be reproduced either on this website, or in our newsletter at our personal discretion, with appropriate commentary. If your email is intended to be private, it should be labeled as such. Regardless, I do keep emails private when their content is obviously intended to be confidential. But I felt the illumination of Ron's letter was so enlightening it deserved to be spread for the benefit of others. You can't seriously think Ron's blind condemnation and criticism of another religion was intended to be a personal and confidential insult directed only for the private viewing of myself. But anyway, you are Shvu, you need to always argue the other half of the equation. If someone says day, you will say night.

Actually I believe the conception that everyone else is worshipping false gods (maybe the devil?), that they are deceived, that they are heathens, heretics and the such, and that "my way is the only truth, and everyone else must be converted to my way" is the cause of much suffering in the world. I think my view can be substantiated by recorded history as well. The settling of North and South America is a good example. The inquisition is a good example. The crusades is a good example. The colonization of Africa is a good example. How many cultures have been wiped out in the name of spreading Christianity? Maybe we need to have an endangered cultures list; and countries should prohibit conversions within those cultures. If it can work for the dolphin maybe it can work for humans too.

Certainly it was funnier than the email that said, "Cows, tasty little creatures." Believe it or not, Mr. Ron was trying to be funny. He meant to be funny. Thats why he writes "Mr. Krishna", etc. Rather than get offended, its better to appreciate his humor in connection with the traditional blind condemnation of others that is common in Western countries. I hope his letter would illustrate some of sentiments prevalent in the Western mindset. A view that all others are uncultured and primitive; something that event the earliest indologists emphasized in their writings. Such a mindset is actually offensive, intentionally so, as we can see both in the writings of the indologists and in Mr. Ron's letter. But for some reason Hindus are supposed to just ignore it and accept that they are primitive and backwards. The double standard is truly engrained in western society, where one must tolerate attacks against minorities, but carefully avoid any slight provocative statement about the majority. This is especially clear in Eastern Europe, where the church has a stronghold on the governments, and utilizes its influence to crush minority religions. The United States on the other hand is somewhat more open and liberal. But religious (and even racial) intolerance is very prominant in the southern states. It is seen as fine to ridicule other's beliefs and practices, blaspheme other's gods and holy deities, and condemn the minorities as lost, deceived, and heading for hell. But if someone were to object to such treatment, in a public forum such as this, the double standard comes into play. Actually we should not laugh at the response given by Mr. Ron. We should be offended and angered by it. But according to the Gita anger is one of the three paths leading to hell; thus it should be avoided. In such a case it is much better to see an offensive statement in a humorous manner, and display it for the cultural education of all. Some people would rather we respect other's rights to insult minorities. They feel we should silently observe. I would disagree. Such deep lying disdain of other cultures and religions, which is practically spontaneous, naturally arising within certain people, should be exposed, not ignored. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-25-2001).]