Jahnava Nitai Das

According to Srila Prabhupada, the world "Arya" refers to those who followed the Vedic teachings. By comparing them against Dravidians you are comparing apples and oranges. Dravidians who followed the Vedic culture were also Aryans.

You are a confused person. Please read through this thread again. Just because some western races have decended from fallen Aryan kings does not mean "Aryan" refers solely to the whites. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 11-19-2001).]

Just to make this discussion even more meaningless, I would like to know whether the India we are discussing includes Pak Occupied Kashmir. Because if it doesn't I won't take part in the discussions. Jai Hind! [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 11-19-2001).]

If you would read Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavatam commentaries, he makes it clear how the westerners are descendents or Aryans. They are descendents of kings who fled from India. Srila Prabhupada does not accept the Aryan invasion theory, and none of our ancient texts speak of such a thing.

Again it should be noted that not a single ancient indian text speaks about an Aryan invasion of India. The entire concept was just taken from thin air by the British Indologists to explain the linguistic similarities between Indian languages and western languages. Such a huge event, yet it doesn't find a single mention in any scriptural or historical text? Sometimes when you point these things out people become offended and go a little loony, as can be seen up there in this thread. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 11-19-2001).]

Bhaktivinoda Thakur wrote several books targeted specifically at the british educated Indian, in which he makes statements which contradict traditional teachings. For example he says that the Srimad Bhagavatam was written 1,000 years ago by a brahmana in South India (i.e. it was never authored by Vyasa), that Krishna, Shiva and other Devas where nothing but tribal kings of the past, that there is no such thing as hellish planets, that the Aryan's invaded india, etc. His purpose was to not waste time debating what the British Indologists had implanted in the minds of the educated Indians, but to just bring them to the point of devotion by speaking a language they understood.

This is a good example of how pride blocks one's spiritual path. Satyaraj claimed Rupa Goswami did not state Sri Chaitanya was Krishna. It was then pointed out that he did, and it was confirmed by Krishna Das Kaviraj Goswami. Rather than accept this truth with humilty, he becomes a victim of his pride and chooses to attack the credibility of the saint, Krishna Das Kaviraj Goswami. His pride does not allow him to accept defeat, much like he would refuse to accept he was wrong on countless other occassions. (Example: that "the Bhavishya Purana is not a mahapurana", that "the scriptures speak about New World vegetables like tomatoes and condemn those who eat them", "potatos are eternally pure even if covered in beef", etc.) There is a lesson to be learnt here.

The jivan-mukta is sarva-jna, or all knowing, and tri-kala-jna, or a knower of past, present and future. It is a concept very easy to understand for simple people.

The great Brazilian Vedic scholar, Satyaraj, barks at the moon like saint, Sri Krishna das Kaviraj Goswami, just like the dogs barking at the feet of passing camels. Such foolish dogs only can perceive the tiny hooves of the camels, and fail to understand the enormous animals they are connected to. They become very proud of their barking, thinking they have displayed their great courage in the face of the camel's hooves and staked claim to their rightful land. They do not understand that the passing camels care nothing about the insignificant and foolish dog, and walk off to continue their journey in the caravan back to Godhead.

Perhaps the all knowing Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna Chaitanya, recalled the beautiful prayers offered to Him by Lord Brahma at the beginning of creation and recited this verse. Those who put a mundane conception onto the absolute truth end up with very little spiritual substance, despite their external ritual and glorification. They try to limit the absolute by mundane time and space, but the only thing limited is their speculative mind.

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There never was an Aryan invasion of India. Not a single ancient text in India speaks of such an invasion. Foolish British indologists took the battles between the devas and asuras mentioned in the Vedas to be an invasion of India by light skinned people.

Don't mind the pointless arguments. Some people have a fondness for the British empire and refuse to acknowledge the great attrocities they committed throughout the world.

This is where they generally degenerate to sentimentality and give up logic. For example, one Christian priest told me, "If a child dies when still young, in a place where they have never heard of Christ, he will automatically be saved by the Lord." Why? Don't they believe in some original sin which all humanity must suffer for? The problem is they do not understand reincarnation, which answers all questions regarding fate and cause of suffering. Why is someone born with a terrible disease, or why someone is born deformed, and why someone else isn't? Why is someone born in a porr country and someone else born in a rich country? Is God partial to some? Without understanding the laws of Karma, God begins to look like a terrible person.

There are countless interpolations within the Vedic system of religion over the last few thousand years. This reminds us that it is Kali yuga. For example just 2,500 years ago the brahmanas were killing cows in the name of sacrifice; such a great deviation that the Lord Himself had to incarnate as Buddha to rectify it. These various deviations and interpolations are what has turned sanatana-dharma into Hinduism over time. But whenever there is a decline in religious principles, the Lord again incarnates to reestablish them. Sri Krishna has come again as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu for this very purpose, to reestablish dharma in this dark age of Kali. It would be in our own self interest to follow realized acharyas and saints as opposed to what we think is Indian culture or religion. It is Kali-yuga, and every religion has been affected by this age of darkness. We are advised to take shelter in the line of Bhagavatas and in the text Srimad Bhagavatam, for it can provide us light in this dark age. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 11-14-2001).]

The Vedic religion accepts 'drashtas' or divine seers. Through introspective meditation, they literally see the Vedic texts in the ether through their inner eye. In this way the eternal unauthored Vedic texts become revealed to the people in general through the medium of realized saints and sages.

The Vedic religion accepts 'drashtas' or divine seers. Through introspective meditation, they literally see the Vedic texts in the ether through their inner eye. In this way the eternal unauthored Vedic texts become revealed to the people in general through the medium of realized saints and sages.

I have appointed someone (a non-participant) to monitor the forums (since I don't have time to do it). I have given him a standing order to delete anything which is irrelevant, offensive, or just purposely meaningless. I suppose your deleted posts fall within one of those categories.

Temple monkey leads police to stolen idol Jatindra Dash in Bhubaneswar A monkey played a key role in the recovery of one of two idols stolen from the world-famous Jagannath temple in Puri, 56km from the state capital Bhubaneswar, a local newspaper reported on Tuesday. The idol of Madan Mohan, made of ashtadhatu, an alloy of eight metals including gold and silver and weighing 18 kilograms, was found in a well inside the 12th century temple complex on Monday. Idols of Madan Mohan and Narayan, both avatars of the god Jagannath, were stolen on Sunday, shocking Hindus who rushed to the temple town from all parts of the state for a glimpse of the shrine. Some 30,000 devotees also began a fast, ending it only after the recovery of one of the idols. The Oriya language daily Dharitri reported that had it not been for a monkey that lives in the temple complex the police would still be searching for the Madan Mohan idol. While police were searching the temple complex, the monkey kept raising its paw and making sounds to attract the attention of the officer supervising the work, the paper reported. The officer, Ajit Das, did not take the animal seriously. But some priests advised him to approach it. As Das walked towards the animal it again raised its paws and pointed towards a well. Taking the cue, the police pumped water out from the well to find the idol at the bottom, the paper reported. Monkeys are often in the news in Orissa, but for all the wrong reasons. Only two days ago the same newspaper had reported an incident where a monkey had plunged an entire town into darkness by causing a short circuit at a powerhouse. The entire state has been put on high alert and police are checking vehicles and even interrogating people accused of idol smuggling in the past. Thirteen policemen have been sacked and the four who guarded the temple complex have been arrested. "We suspect that the second idol may also be inside the temple premises. We are pumping out water from all the 11 wells located inside the complex," state police chief N C Padhi said.

This reminds me of Achyutananda of the pancha sakhas who has predicted Lord Jagannatha will be stolen and taken to a foreign country.

If my memory is correct, there are 24 festival deities in the Puri Jagannatha temple.

Madan Mohan idol recovered from inside temple Agencies/Puri The idol of Madan Mohan, found missing from Sri Jagannath temple, was recovered from inside a well in the temple complex Monday, official sources said. However, another idol of Narayani, also missing since Sunday, is yet to be traced. The two feet high 'astadhatu' (eight metals) idol of Madan Mohan, regarded as representative of lord Jagannath was sighted in a well inside nilachal upabana in the 12th century temple complex, the sources said. Fire brigade personnel pumped out the water and retrieved the idol, the disappearance of which had caused commotion in the temple town forcing Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik to seek a CBI probe. There are over a dozen wells inside the shrine complex and efforts were on to pump out water from them to trace the idol of Narayani, the sources added.

Jagannath idols stolen from Sri Jagannath temple Agencies/Puri Close on the heels of the burglary at the 11th century Lingaraj temple at Bhubaneswar a week ago, miscreants stole two idols including that of lord Madan Mohan from the Sri Jagannath temple here early Sunday, police said. The two feet high 'ashtadhatu' (eight metal) idol, regarded as the representative of lord Jagannath, was found missing when sevayats came to open the sanctum sanctorum of the 12th century shrine at dawn Sunday. The silver idol of Narayani -- considered the deity of the new moon day -- was also untraceable, temple administration sources said. The "ratna bhandar" of the temple, where huge quantities of precious jewellery and ornaments of the deities were kept, was found to be safe, the sources said. Police, however, described the act as a definite attempt to rob the "ratna bhandar" which had failed. Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik, revenue and law minister Biswabhushan Harichandan and senior police officials have rushed here from Bhubaneswar to take stock of the situation. The temple administrator, Bhabani Shankar Panda said that the lock on a side entrance of the sanctum sanctorum, inside which the deities of Jagannath, Balabhadra and Subhadra are kept on the 'ratna simhasan' had been found broken. The thieves had also broken locks of two offices within the temple complex but no valuables were kept there. The morning rituals of the deities were delayed due to the incident as the idol of Madan Mohan was associated with all rituals of the shrine. Even the 'mangala arati' supposed to commence at 5.00 am, had not begun till noon, temple sources said. The sources said the 'mukti mandap', the highest policy making body of the temple, was being consulted to find a way out to commence the rituals. Police had sealed the sanctum sanctorum even as thousands of people thronged the temple to have "darshan" of the deities on the occasion of 'ekadasi' day in the auspicious Oriya month of Kartika Sunday. Temple sources said as per tradition, three sevayats -- 'mudra sevak', 'muduli' and 'talachhua mahapatra' -- had locked and sealed different gates of the main temple after the last ritual of 'pahuda' (sleeping of the deities) was completed. After that the temple was cleared of all visitors at around 2.00 am. Early in the morning, when some sevayats went inside to open the door, they found it open with the lock smashed. The police was then informed. On Monday night, thieves had stolen about ten kg of silver ornaments, some gold and four costly saris of goddess Parvati from the 11th century Lingaraj temple at Bhubaneswar. Police was yet to make any breakthrough in the case. According to official sources, one havildar and eight constables of state police had been deployed at different places inside the temple complex last night. Besides, three personnel of Jagannath temple police were also on duty near the 'beherana dwar' inside the shrine. Sevayats, stunned over the development, described the burglary from the sri Jagannath temple on the 'ekadasi' day as "a bad omen for the state". The miscreants had also struck at the Lingaraj temple on Monday night, considered an auspicious day, they said. The Orissa police and the temple police are responsible for the security of the shrine, the maintenance of which has been entrusted to the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI). The shrine, besides the sanctum sanctorum, comprised of over thirty smaller temples within its sprawling premises. Even as the pilgrim city -- also a magnificent sea resort police had sealed all entry and exit points from the city.

Here is a nice website with news about ISKCON activities throughout the world: http://www.iskconworldwide.com [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 11-12-2001).]

Thank you for writing. In the Gita Lord Krishna states that penance and austerity is of three types, namely that done in the mode of goodness, that done in the mode of passion, and that done in the mode of ignorance. He explains the difference between these three as follows: shraddhaya paraya taptam tapas tat tri-vidham naraih aphalakankshibhir yuktaih sattvikam paricakshate "This threefold austerity (of body, mind and words), practiced by men whose aim is not to benefit themselves materially but to please the Supreme, is of the nature of goodness." satkara-mana-pujartham tapo dambhena caiva yat kriyate tad iha proktam rajasam calam adhruvam "Those ostentatious penances and austerities which are performed in order to gain respect, honor and reverence are said to be in the mode of passion. They are neither stable nor permanent." mudha-grahenatmano yat pidaya kriyate tapah parasyotsadanartham va tat tamasam udahritam "Penance or austerity performed out of foolishness, with self-torture or to destroy or injure others, is said to be in the mode of ignorance." The destination of those acting in ignorance is described by Lord Krishna elsewhere in the Gita as follows: jaghanya-guna-vritti-stha adho gachanti tamasah "Those situated in the abominable mode of ignorance go down to the hellish worlds." Ethical behaviour is guided by the scriptural texts known as "Dharma-shastras". These are the law books of mankind, and they explain in detail the laws of karma (action and reaction). Ultimately dharma, or proper conduct, comes from the Lord: dharman tu sakshat bhagavat pranitam "Dharma is the direct instruction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead". Those who are true Hindus understand the intricate law of karma, and thus they do not wish to cause disturbance to any living entity, knowing the reactions will come back to themselves in this life and the next. I hope this has answered your question. Please feel free to write for clarification. Yours in service, Jahnava Nitai Das, Bhaktivedanta Ashram http://www.foodrelief.org