Jahnava Nitai Das

Just to be fair, that verse does not actually mention Jainism. The interpretation accepted by some is that it refers to Jainism. According to the Jains, they follow Rishabhadeva's teachings. According to some others, they have taken his name and created a different system of religion. Personally I would not consider posting this verse in a thread started by a Jain as fair. It would be much nicer to hear positive discussion about what is Jainism, what do they follow, etc.

There is also a reddish tint to some aspect of his eye. Here is something from Srila Prabhupada's commentary on Mukunda-mala stotra: [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 01-26-2002).]

Regarding blue or black, Krishna's skin color is also described with both words in various texts, so it's not necessary that one be wrong.

This is especially true since many times enemies become connected in future lives as friends or relatives. For example, someone whom you cheated in the last life may become your son, to take back what is owed to him. In one life you are cheating or killing them, in the next life they are your son or daughter. It would make a completely different world.

Imagine if we could remember all the mistakes, all the criminal activities, all the terrible things we've done for thousands of lives. Not to mention all the people whom we loved, all our family members whom we lost, etc. It is Krishna's mercy that he gives us forgetfulness and provides us with a clean mental slate to start our journey fresh. sarvasya caham hridisannivishto mattah smritir jnanam apohanam ca "I am situated in everyone's heart, and from me come knowledge, remembrance and forgetfullness."

This is an interesting point. The purpose of the Yuga avatara is to establish the dharma for the age. If they establish the dharma after the age has finished, what was the use? I believe the yuga-avataras are not those whom are commonly thought of, such as Krishna or Rama. The scriptures generally state the color of the yuga-avataras, but I have not seen them mention the particular names of these avataras. For example it is mentioned the yuga-avatara for treta-yuga is red. This is not Rama, but likely "yajna-varaha", who established Yajna as the yuga dharma for treta yuga. Varaha is the predominating deity behind all sacrifices, thus it makes sense that this would be the case.

Literally every single acharya in Vedic lineage accepts the existance of ghostly beings. You will find throughout their writings (regardless of which school they belong to) mentionings of such beings. Shankaracharya was himself taught by such entities. I would suggest you are confused as to what Bhaktivinoda Thakur has taught. Regardless, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada, whom you may or may not follow, has accepted the existence of ghostly beings as factual, as well as the existence of heavenly and hellish abodes. You may have misunderstood my statement: "This leads to a hellish state of existence for the soul. This has nothing to do with hellish planets, but is a description of the situation. It is a "hellish" situation to exist in. "Ghosts" live right here with us. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 01-23-2002).]

You assume that stating a reality must be for the purpose of changing the reality. I hope you can see the flaw in this line of thought. If someone says the sun hasn't risen, it does not help the sun rise, nor was it ever meant to make the sun rise. It was simply said to state the reality. As far as getting people to value their life, it requires gettng them to understand themselves beyond the body. Self esteem centers on understanding the self, not in fooling our self into thinking we are something we are not (i.e. a false bodily conception).

The following is from the letters to the editor section:

Just added the following: Sri Damodarashtakam with commentary by Srila Sanatana Goswami: http://www.indiadivine.com/damodarashtakam-sanatana-goswami1.htm Brihaspati Niti Sara (the essence of political ethics as taught by Brihaspati, from Garuda Purana): http://www.indiadivine.com/brihaspati-niti-shastra1.htm

This isn't about the caste issue, but just for the purpose of contemplation I would like to detail the service of these individuals. It's their job to clean out the septic tank when it becomes full. So they actually go down inside the septic tank with buckets, fill them up and then pass them to the surface to be poured out. They are literally swimming in human refuse. I hope we will all be thankful at how easy of a life we have.

Nearly every scripture and ancient culture in the world describe a devastating flood that took place aproximately 5,000 years ago destroying civilization. The same story is found in the Puranas. And this would explain why most archeological sites are very recent.

Excavations cannot be done in Hastinapur because there is a city of millions of people still existing there. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 01-17-2002).]

City older than Mohenjodaro unearthed REUTERS [ WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 16, 2002 6:25:32 PM ] EW DELHI: Indian scientists have made an archaeological find dating back to 7500 BC suggesting the world's oldest cities came up about 4,000 years earlier than is currently believed, a top government official said on Wednesday. The scientists found pieces of wood, remains of pots, fossil bones and what appeared like construction material just off the coast of Surat, Science and Technology Minister Murli Manohar Joshi told a news conference. "Some of these artefacts recovered by the NIOT (National Institute of Ocean Technology) from the site such as the log of wood date back to 7500 BC, which is indicative of a very ancient culture in the present Gulf of Cambay, that got submerged subsequently," Joshi said. Current belief is that the first cities appeared around 3500 BC in the valley of Sumer, where Iraq now stands, a statement issued by the government said. "We can safely say from the antiquities and the acoustic images of the geometric structures that there was human activity in the region more than 9,500 years ago (7500 BC)," S.N. Rajguru, an independent archaeologist, said. The findings, if confirmed, will dislodge the Harappan Civilisation dating back to 2500 BC as India's oldest civilisation.

The following is from our Q & A discussion group at india-divine/ : >Could you please tell me where the caste system >originated from, if the majority of hindus >recognize it, and where the current caste system >problems stem from. I don't feel that the present >caste system could be sanctioned by Hinduism. Thank you for writing. You are correct that the present caste system is not something originating in the Hindu religion. According to the hindu scriptures caste was nothing but a term for one's occupation. If one was a teacher he was called a brahmana; if one was a soldier he was called a kshatriya; if one was a business man or a farmer he was called a vaishya; and if one was a laborer he was called a shudra. This had nothing to do with one's birth, but with one's qualities and actions. There are countless examples in the Hindu scriptures of people being born to parents of one caste, but becoming a different caste by training. In additon to this, caste was never used to discriminate against people. The different castes are described in the scriptures as the different limbs (arms, legs, stomach and head) of society. One does not discriminate against one's own legs just because they perform a different function than one's head. All of one's bodily limbs are working for the common body, and as such all are respected equally. The Vedic society is divided into four divisions of occupation (varnas) and for orders of life (ashramas). This system is known as varnashrama. Since your questions are on the caste system, I will avoid speaking about the four orders of life, even though they intersect with the four divisions of occupation. The four divisions of occupation (known today as caste) are actually based on one's acquired nature. Originally this system was not based on birth. This is explained in the ancient scripture Bhagavad Gita as follows: catur-varnyam maya srishtam guna-karma-vibhagashah tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam "According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable." The four "castes" or varnas were determined according to one's qualitities (guna) and one's activities (karma) - and not by birth. This system of division of occupations exists naturally in every culture of the world. According to one's qualities, one will perform activity (an occupation), and according to one's occupation one is given a designation. In English we use the names teachers, administrators, farmers and manual laborers. In sanskrit these are called brahmanas, kshatriyas, vaishyas and shudras. The words may be different, but these natural divisions exist in every society. The four divisions of society work together as one body. The scriptures figuratively describe the body of society with the head being the brahmanas (the intellectual class), the arms being the kshatriyas (the adminstrative class), the stomach being the vaishyas (the agricultural class), and the legs being the shudras (the worker class). The Vedic society was ran by a king (who belonged to the kshatriya class). This king was guided and advised by the brahmanas, and based on their proper guidance the king would administer the society. The vaishyas (business men) were mainly engaged in agriculture and cow protection. In the vedic culture the cow is considered as wealth, since the milk it produces sustains the entire society. Each caste or varna has a particular definition based on qualities and activities. In the Bhagavad Gita the following definitions are given: brahmana-kshatriya-visham shudranam ca parantapa karmani pravibhaktani svabhava-prabhavair gunaih "Brahmanas, kshatriyas, vaishyas and shudras are distinguished by the qualities born of their own natures in accordance with the material modes, O chastiser of the enemy." shamo damas tapah shaucam kshantir arjavam eva cha jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness-these are the natural qualities by which the brahmanas work." shauryam tejo dhritir dakshyam yuddhe chapy apalayanam danam ishvara-bhavash cha kshatram karma svabhava-jam "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the natural qualities of work for the ksatriyas." krishi-go-rakshya-vanijyam vaishya-karma svabhava-jam paricharyatmakam karma shudrasyapi svabhava-jam "Farming, cow protection and business are the natural work for the vaisyas, and for the sudras there is labor and service to others." We find in the ancient scriptures of India there are many cases of someone belonging to one caste changing to another caste by developing the proper qualities. For example, the great king Kaushika became the most famous brahmana by the name Vishwamitra. Today the natural divisions of society have degraded into a birth based caste system. This is not in accordance with the ancient scriptures. People without any good qualities are claiming to be brahmanas simply based on their birth. In the ancient text known as Bhagavata Purana it was predicted that in the future caste will be determined by birth, and the only ualification of the brahmana will be the string he wears around his shoulder - "vipratve sutram eva hi". In India the brahmanas wear a thread which is part of their ceremonial dress. Today external symbols such as the thread are the only qualification which establishes one as a brahmana. The inner qualifications of peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousity are ignored. In summary, the present caste system has been manufactured by men for the purpose of exploiting society. The original divisions of society are natural and spontaneous. They exist in every society under different names and designations. Yours in service, Jahnava Nitai Das, Bhaktivedanta Ashram http://www.foodrelief.org [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 01-16-2002).]

Yes, which has nothing to do with cruel and unusual punishment. He anniliated the miscreant kings by cutting their heads off. Those kings felt the pain when their head was severed, and they screamed out when it happened. The fact that Lord Krishna still blessed them to attain moksha despite their crimes shows how Lord Krishna both punishes and delivers at the same time. Thank you for using those words, which in sanskrit would be sat-dharma. As I had mentioned begfore, sat-dharma is defined as the laws of Manu in the Srimad Bhagavatam: manvantarani sat-dharma. You may not like something due to your modern politcal correctness, but why try to pass of your political correctness onto Lord Krishna? As far as your statements regarding the "caste system", it is unfortunate that after so many years of studying Hinduism you still haven't got a clue about this, especially since Srila Prabhupada has explained this time and time again, and you were or are a follower of his.

Yes, which has nothing to do with cruel and unusual punishment. He anniliated the miscreant kings by cutting their heads off. Those kings felt the pain when their head was severed, and they screamed out when it happened. The fact that Lord Krishna still blessed them to attain moksha despite their crimes shows how Lord Krishna both punishes and delivers at the same time. Thank you for using those words, which in sanskrit would be sat-dharma. As I had mentioned begfore, sat-dharma is defined as the laws of Manu in the Srimad Bhagavatam: manvantarani sat-dharma. You may not like something due to your modern politcal correctness, but why try to pass of your political correctness onto Lord Krishna? As far as your statements regarding the "caste system", it is unfortunate that after so many years of studying Hinduism you still haven't got a clue about this, especially since Srila Prabhupada has explained this time and time again, and you were or are a follower of his.

See if it will cover payments for alternative treatments, like massage, accupuncture, etc., or a psychiatrist version of these (if there are any).

You are confused as to the purpose of Krishna's pastimes. He does not descend for any mundane reason such as stopping "cruel and unusual punishment". He Himself, as a king, ruled according to Manu's law and gave out direct punishment to many people. What is the purpose of Lord Krishna's descent? The Bhagavatam states it is to reclaim the lost conditioned souls. Any other mundane purpose which we attribute to His divine descent is just our own inability to differentiate between the divine and material natures.

You are confused as to the purpose of Krishna's pastimes. He does not descend for any mundane reason such as stopping "cruel and unusual punishment". He Himself, as a king, ruled according to Manu's law and gave out direct punishment to many people. What is the purpose of Lord Krishna's descent? The Bhagavatam states it is to reclaim the lost conditioned souls. Any other mundane purpose which we attribute to His divine descent is just our own inability to differentiate between the divine and material natures.

Manu samhita has everything to do with Sri Chaitanya's monement as well as any movement that follows the Vedic culture. Sri Chaitanya accepted the Srimad Bhagavatam as the highest authority, and therein we find: manvantarani sad-dharmah "The laws of Manu are the sat-dharma, eternal religious principles." Your sentimental rejection of sat-dharma in favour of your conditioned veiw of the modern political situation, and comparison of it to sat-dharma, is less than useful. Furthermore, Svayambhuva Manu himself is one of the twleve Mahajana's (great authorities of devotion), and this samhita was authored by him, not the present Manu. It is the writing of a pure devotee of the Lord, and as Srimad Bhagavatam states, "We must follow in the footsteps of the Mahajanas, the twelve authorities of bhakti." As to whether it has practical application in the Kali yuga, that is another point. First, there is no religious king, therefore religious rule is automatically meaningless. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 01-15-2002).]

Manu samhita has everything to do with Sri Chaitanya's monement as well as any movement that follows the Vedic culture. Sri Chaitanya accepted the Srimad Bhagavatam as the highest authority, and therein we find: manvantarani sad-dharmah "The laws of Manu are the sat-dharma, eternal religious principles." Your sentimental rejection of sat-dharma in favour of your conditioned veiw of the modern political situation, and comparison of it to sat-dharma, is less than useful. Furthermore, Svayambhuva Manu himself is one of the twleve Mahajana's (great authorities of devotion), and this samhita was authored by him, not the present Manu. It is the writing of a pure devotee of the Lord, and as Srimad Bhagavatam states, "We must follow in the footsteps of the Mahajanas, the twelve authorities of bhakti." As to whether it has practical application in the Kali yuga, that is another point. First, there is no religious king, therefore religious rule is automatically meaningless. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 01-15-2002).]

I didn't see it, but perhaps it wasn't a "spiritual discussion" as the forum suggests.

The world review section deals more with mundane news and politics.

The point that no one can explain is why there isn't a single description of this "Aryan invasion" in any ancient text of India? Can you find a single reference to this alleged invasion in any Sanskrit or Tamil text? That itself is evidence that it never occured. In fact, in the history this concept never existed until the British came to India. They will claim that there was such a huge event in the history of India, but not a single poet, historian or saint mentioned it in their writings.