suchandra

If one cannot find such a maha-bhagavat as described in Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya 22, Verse 71, should one settle for a second-class devotee of the Lord ("The second-class devotee, even though he cannot support his position with sastric reference, can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the sastras and associating with a first-class devotee"), Asamordhva das asks this question. Hopefully the honoured members of this forum might have an answer? BY: ASAMORDHVA DAS Sep 9, 2007 — I am responding to five points in the recent article by Balavidya das which brilliantly analysed the qualifications of those seeking initiation and the initiator. As our Srila Prabhupada states in his comments on the fifth verse of his Nectar of Instruction: "Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama- adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisn?avism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master." That being the case we then have to determine, basically, if we have such a spiritual commodity within our reach. In the Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya 22, Verse 72 there is the following quote rendered by Krishnadas: <HTTP: en 6 noi vedabase.net> "A person advanced in devotional service sees within everything the soul of souls, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Consequently he always sees the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the cause of all causes and understands that all things are situated in Him." If one cannot find such an maha-bhagavat, then one will have to settle for a second-class devotee of the Lord. But it is also said in Srila Prabhupada's purports to Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya 22, Verse 71, that if the second-class devotee does not take instructions from a first-class devotee then he is unable to advance. "The second-class devotee, even though he cannot support his position with sastric reference, can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the sastras and associating with a first-class devotee. However, if the second-class devotee does not advance himself by associating with a first-class devotee, he makes no progress." Thus we become wholly dependent on the mercy of Krishna in the shape of a maha-bhagavat. Now here is my question: If there is no maha-bhagavat in your institution of whatever shape or form it assumes, will the members of such an institution therefore consider taking instruction and ultimately initiation from a maha-bhagavat outside of the revered institution? If not, then why? If there is absolute need for higher association, can one reach beyond ecclesiastical walls? Or will one be confined to dream only of the possibilities? If institutionalism is perceived as greater than realization of God, then I feel that the material energy has succeeded in ways unbeknownst to the members of that institution. If such an institution does, however, declare that 'uttama adhikaris' are to found but later such first-class devotees fall down, then it goes against the definition of a top-class devotee as stated in the last part of the purport to the verse in mention, "There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach. Conviction and faith gradually increase to make one an uttama-adhikari, a first-class devotee." Many have criticized those who have left institutional boundaries in search of higher association but according to the above statements, those who are third-class and second-class would have to resign themselves to the limitations imposed on them and ultimately 'make no progress'. If one does not wish to make progress, but is happy simply performing his duties in Krishna-consciousness that may be alright to some degree, but for one who is keen to realize God and taste Krishna-prema, then he will have to curse himself until the day or lifetime comes when he is no longer restricted by ecclesiastical restrictions. Spiritual life without respecting an individual's greed for 'bhakti' is, in one sense, tyrannical and if one has no higher association then that, greed cannot bear fruit of love-of-God. One of the Sun readers submitted fairly recently that the members should all pray for the descent of such a maha-bhagavat within the boundaries of the institution and that is certainly praiseworthy, but what if such an event does not take place? It could end up like the Christian institutions that are still patiently awaiting the return of the Messiah. As Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur has said, it is best to act with times that are with thee, than depend on some future hope. This only leads me to conclude that such members under the grip of institutional politics should revolt.

Looks like this topic causes within ISKCON quite some discussion. Prabhupada: No. The committee. The majority decision will be… Hayagriva: That’s democracy. That’s democracy. That’s no good. Prabhupada: Democracy? This is the age of democracy. Hayagriva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy. Prabhupada: No. Monarchy is out of date now. … If you have to live together, you have to work together; if you disagree in that way, it will be a difficult job. Constitution Committee Update <!-- the top of the post, the background graphic gets applied here, and we truncate the title itself so it fits, in case of long post titles - title will still show the full title though --> Constitution Committee Update 1,081 Views / EMail This Post / Print This Post / Home » Constitution Committee Update <!-- end .post-top --> <!-- the main section of the post goes here --> By Sesa dasa Our constitution committee wish to involve experienced and thoughtful devotees from around the world. Not just GBC members and deputies. We need broader input as we devise a constitution relevant to everyone connected to ISKCON. We hope such a constitution will be pertinent to all, and perhaps especially to the ISKCON leadership who are more accustomed to making laws for others than for having a constitution that holds all members equally accountable. In New Vrindavan we discussed how we would work as a committee and how to divide up responsibilities. We assigned tasks that needed to be done before the next meeting in Mayapur. Our core group members are Bhaktimarga Swami, Bhaktarupa dasa, Hridaya Caitanya dasa, Param Gati Swami and Sesa dasa (Chair). This group is to keep the constitution work proceeding at a satisfactory pace, and stay with the process until it is completed. The Core Group listed the following components of an ISKCON Constitution (Note: this listing is not intended to be conclusive or exhaustive): 1.Defining ISKCON What is its purpose? 2.What are the lines of authority? Organizational Structure - Definitions and roles of GBC, TP, Guru. Clearly defining the roles and relationships between temples, preaching centres, Nama Hattas and other ISKCON related entities, etc. 3.Who is a Member? Are there different levels of membership? What’s a clergy? A congregation member, etc. 4.What is ISKCON’s responsibility to its members? How do we define “devotee care” 5.What are the rights and responsibilities of the members. 6.How is justice to be administered? 7.Responsibility for properties/Protection of Assets. Based upon feedback from the GBC Body during the New Vrindaban meeting, we gave priority to the following three tasks over the next few months: Legal Implications of a Constitution – Team Coordinator - Sesa dasa Questions raised include how an ISKCON Constitution would and/or should interface with the laws of the many countries around the world where there are ISKCON temples; how individual ISKCON members and ISKCON temples would be legally benefited by and bound to provisions of an ISKCON Constitution. It was expressed that our ideal should be that the constitution stays aloof from the legal structure of various localities. Membership (Including Rights and Responsibilities) Team Coordinators – Hrdaya Chaitanya dasa and Bhaktarupa dasa Questions raised include how to define membership (briefly or more elaborately, or a combination of these two approaches), different classes of membership or relationship with ISKCON, minimum standards, rights and/or responsibilities, care for members. It was expressed that this task could be broken up into two or possibly more subdivisions for different teams to work on. Justice System Team Coordinator – Bhaktarupa dasa Questions raised include whether a power, rights, or interest (or some combination of the three) based approach to justice in ISKCON is appropriate, enforcement issues, financial and other practical considerations. Based on responses previously received from devotees specifically invited to participate in the constitution project, the GBC Body encouraged the formation of a Constitution Committee Extended Group which would include: Akruranatha dasa, Deenanath dasa, Dvarakadhisa dasa, Krishna Dharma dasa, Krsnadas Kaviraja dasa, Murari Hari dasa, Pancharatna dasa, Parivadi dasa, Prema Bhakti dasa, Radha devi dasi, Salagram dasa, Vedavyasa dasa and Visnu Murti dasa. Each of them took part in one or more Sub-Committee(s). The group will set up a “Wiki” on the internet to help members work together on documents when they can’t meet face-to-face. Challenges we face include: 1.We are a big group. Big groups are hard to manage, and we have differing views on many topics. 2.Some of the issues we are dealing with are complex. 3.Most of us have other, full-time services. We hope to deal with these challenges by good communications and having determined facilitators to keep us on track.

There's a saying that in NY every taxi driver is a philosopher, so in fact they all say what you're saying, I know what life means exactly. But who cares?

Teen Suicide Rate: Highest Increase In 15 Years <!-- BODY BEGIN --> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907221530.htm Science Daily — Date: <!-- DATE BEGIN -->September 8, 2007 Following a decline of more than 28 percent, the suicide rate for 10- to-24-year-olds increased by 8 percent, the largest single-year rise in 15 years, according to a report just released in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR).<!-- Originally posted on ScienceDaily 2007-09-08 --> The decline took place from 1990 to 2003 (from 9.48 to 6.78 per 100,000 people), and the increase took place from 2003 to 2004, (from 6.78 to 7.32), the report said. “This is the biggest annual increase that we've seen in 15 years. We don't yet know if this is a short-lived increase or if it's the beginning of a trend,” said Dr. Ileana Arias, director of CDC's National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. “Either way, it's a harsh reminder that suicide and suicide attempts are affecting too many youth and young adults. We need to make sure suicide prevention efforts are continuous and reaching children and young adults.” The report is an analysis of annual data from the CDC's National Vital Statistics System (NVSS). NVSS data are comprised of birth, death, marriage, divorce, and fetal death records in the United States. Researchers looked at trends during the 15-year period by gender, age group and suicide method. It did not examine reasons for the changes in suicide rates. An increase in the suicide rates for three gender-age groups accounts for the increase in the overall suicide rate, the report said. Rates rose for 10- to-14-year-old females, 15 -to-19-year-old females and 15- to-19-year-old males from 2003 to 2004. For 10- to-14-year-old females, the rate increased from 0.54 per 100,000 in 2003 to 0.95 per 100,000 in 2004 For 15-to-19 year-old females the rate increased from 2.66 to 3.52 per 100,000 For 15-to-19 year-old males, the rate increased from 11.61 to 12.65 per 100,000 Prior to 2003, the rates for all three groups were generally decreasing. The analysis also found that changes had taken place in the methods used to attempt suicide. In 1990, firearms were the most common method for both girls and boys. However, in 2004, hanging/suffocation was the most common method of suicide among girls, accounting for 71.4 percent of suicides among 10- to-14-year-old girls and 49 percent among 15-to-19 year-old girls. From 2003 to 2004, there was a 119 percent increase in hanging/suffocation suicides among 10-to -14-year-old girls. For boys and young men, firearms are still the most common method. “It is important for parents, health care professionals, and educators to recognize the warning signs of suicide in youth,” said Dr. Keri Lubell, a behavioral scientist in CDC's Injury Center and lead author of the study. “Parents and other caring adults should look for changes in youth such as talking about taking one's life, feeling sad or hopeless about the future. Also look for changes in eating or sleeping habits and even losing the desire to take part in favorite activities.” A previously published CDC survey of youth in grades 9 to 12 in public and private schools in the United States found that 17 percent reported “seriously considering” suicide, 13 percent reported creating a plan and 8 percent reported trying to take their own life in the 12 months preceding the survey. “This study demands that we strengthen our efforts to help parents, schools and health care providers prevent things that increase the risk of suicide,” said Dr. Arias. “We need to build on the efforts dedicated to education, screening and treatment and bridge the gap between the knowledge we currently have and the action we must take.” CDC's suicide prevention efforts include expanded surveillance systems for suicide through the National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS). NVDRS is a comprehensive, linked reporting system that collects and centralizes information on suicides and homicides from a variety of sources, such as medical examiners and coroners, law enforcement, hospitals, public health officials and crime labs. As this system evolves, it provides a promising approach to capture data that will help to better understand the circumstances surrounding suicide. Information from NVDRS is helping officials, organizations, and communities develop, implement, and evaluate effective prevention policies and programs. CDC is also working with states and tribal governments to implement the National Strategy for Suicide Prevention. The plan is designed to further the dialogue and action that has already begun in communities and to serve as a springboard for changing attitudes, policies, and services. A resource for helping to prevent suicide is the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline toll-free number, 1-800-273-TALK (273-8255). Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Centers For Disease Control. <!-- BODY END --> NaN

Thanks passionate_freak for telling what is your opinion. Somehow it seems there're presently as many opinions as there're people on this planet - 6 billion religions so to speak. However, when it comes to explain knowledge beyond your brain capacity, what is beyond this universe, how you want to tell what is fact?

Nice topic! "The next question: the body of a pure devotee is all spiritual and he is not different from his body. That is also a fact. The bodies of all living entities, even though they are not pure devotees, are not actually the bodies of the spirit soul. It is always separate from the spiritual body. The Vedic mantra confirm it by the sound vibration that this spirit soul is always non-attached with the material body. Therefore, we do not see the actual spiritual body of a pure devotee; but what we see, that is matter. Just like the example is given of the shining moon covered by the cloud. When the cloud moves along with the peeping moonshine, it appears that the moon is moving. Anyone who has seen such movement of cloud in the sky must have this experience. So, the moving of the cloud may appear to the layman's eyes as moving of the moon, but that is not a fact. Similarly, the moving of the body of a pure devotee is not the moving of the pure devotee. After all these are facts for the process of realization, but we can try to understand them as far as possible from the statement of authorized scriptures through the version of the spiritual master or saintly person." 70-01-23 Letter ACBSP

Although there're Vaishnavas who consider Prabhupada's lectures/letters as "tricky preaching strategy" or "baby bottles to feed the infants" and not necessarily based upon authoritative sastra - when even the non-Vaishnavas say it is true, what can be done? Prabhupada, 25 February 1974, Bombay: The frogs, they can become in samādhi, situated in samādhi, for many, many years. So these things are not very great things, to have samādhi, to have yogic principles. Even in the animals you will find. I read long, long ago that in the coal mine, while they were digging coals, one frog came out from the coal and jumped over and died. That means the frog was buried within the lump of coal for many, many thousands of years, and he was keeping samādhi. Kumbhaka, kumbhaka-yoga they know. So these are not very extraordinary things. Because after all, living entity is eternal, does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [bg. 2.20]. If, by some process, he lives for some time more, that is not very wonderful thing. The wonderful thing is how to stop this birth and death. That is wonderful thing. Not that I am living, say, for fifty years or hundred years, another man is living for three hundred years. That is not very wonderful thing." Frozen Alive! http://www.naturenorth.com/winter/frozen/frozen3.html One of the most amazing examples of freeze tolerance is the wood frog (Rana sylvatica). This common frog is found across Canada and all the way north to the tree line. Wood frogs winter on land, hiding under the leaf litter on the forest floor. By hibernating on land, the frogs can get active as soon as the snow melts and breed in the temporary ponds and ditches formed by meltwater. Wood frog choruses can often be heard over a month before aquatic frogs, like leopard frogs, are released from their ice-locked lakes and rivers to begin their own breeding. But hibernation on land has its cost. Frogs can't dig underground like toads do and they need to hibernate in damp leaf litter to keep from drying out. Their soft, water-permeable skin is no barrier to ice and so, whenever frost penetrates into their winter home, they freeze. Ice penetrates though all of the fluid compartments of the animal and within just a few hours a mass of ice fills the abdominal cavity encasing all the internal organs. Large flat ice crystals run between the layers of skin and muscle, and the eyes turn white because the lens freezes. Their blood stops flowing and as much as 65% of the frog's total body water is converted to ice. Breathing, heart beat, and muscle movements all stop and the frozen "frog-sicle" exists in a virtual state of suspended animation until it thaws. http://www.mybitoftheplanet.com/2006/frogmar.html "The southern edge of the pond (at the left of the picture above) has remained frozen since the 1st, and the fall of snow pictured above has given that edge quite a bumpy texture, enough to turn into an abstract this image of two frogs in amplexus. If you look at the larger image you'll see a second picture taken after they moved in which the second frog is clearer to see!"

When it is stated that Chandra-loka is above the Sun, why this description should go along with the parameters of our material minds? This doesnt make sense, rather sastra presents knowledge from the spiritual platform beyond our material conception - the Moon is above the Sun, indicating that the Moon is a planet which requires more pious activities to reach than the Sun. What our material minds and senses can perceive from the Moon might be just some craters but what about if a whole different dimension of material energy is installed on the Moon which we can't perceive with our material senses? We might perceive the Moon's harddisk so to speak but not what operating system is installed upon this harddisk. We have this already here, cyberworlds which cannot be perceived by people who have no platform, i.e. no internet access. This would also explain the long duration of life - on heavenly planets they live thousands of years, but would this be possible in bodies like ours? Our bodies are surely totally different, mind and senses the same. But the conditioning forces us to consider this mind and senses as real perception.

Seems to be the tip of the iceberg - people are in great need for more such kind of spiritual topic....

Just found this "seven rules" guideline and wonder if there's something simliar in the vedic textbooks? At least these points seem be clear from common sense. Of course, Hare Krishna devotess often have rather this clichee: "We meet Derek Archer of Akron, Ohio, whose father is a former pot-smoking Hare Krishna turned Christian missionary and whose mother has never even been to the local mall." (Published: September 9, 2007) Seven Rules For Successfull Parents <!--[if !supportLists]-->1)<!--[endif]-->Parents holding their baby for the first time often feel contradicting emotions like, “I’m totally happy and deeply moved, but I see a huge responsibility coming closer which I don’t feel to be up to address.” The joy and anxieties of parents can be empathized. Rarely anything can be so satisfying and beautiful but also so difficult and frustrating, than to be parents. What the “experts” say is often outdated and in many nations, families are not anymore such a safe fitting together anymore. Somehow it seems that parents are best advised to seek for help when seeking shelter in Whom, Who is the Creator of all living entities: "To those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form--to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have."(Bg.9.22) <!--[if !supportLists]-->2)<!--[endif]--> Creating a lovable home - children need affection, without affection they wither. For a healthy development the human organism first of all requires affection - practically all aspects of health are connected with properly taking care about someone. A deficiency of affection can cause heavy damage within a child but why is this so difficult? In an unkind world as today a family is constantly under the pressure of quite strong burdens. Financial problems and emotional demands while raising kids can intensify existing marriage problems and disturb communication. It is of importance to regularly schedule time for the whole family. 3) Accepting the upbringing order - kids of caring parents who also fix a limit are more successful and happier than children whose parents are too mellow or too demanding. To be authoritative parents doesn’t mean to create a distance towards one’s kids or to frighten them. Kids quickly find out when parents are too soft. When parents don’t have a clear concept about who says what should be done, the kids take the lead. First of all educating children is something what God demands from parents and second, God’s codes of morality are surely the best. Just like Krishna advises a lifestyle which is well-balanced. “There is no possibility of one's becoming a yogi, O Arjuna, if one eats too much, or eats too little, sleeps too much or does not sleep enough.” (BG 6.16) <!--[if !supportLists]-->4)<!--[endif]-->Clear rules and prompt consequences – it is proven that kids go better along with clear rules and clear consequences. Without structure children are at one point only focused upon themselves, become self-absorbed and unhappy and also cause others difficulties. One who loves his child, has to rebuke his child. Reasonable limits and to maintain those limits takes time, effort and endurance and kids often want to find out how far they can go. Children are personalities with ideas, desires and a connate drive to do something forbidden. “Sometimes kids can be obstinate and egotistic” There should some rules written down and they should be repeated. <!--[if !supportLists]-->5)<!--[endif]-->Establishing continuousness – important because in the adult's everyday life there’re many orderly courses. Spiritual life and even recreation require certain continousness. Fixed rules and structures make children feel safe. Learning self-discipline and gaining self-confidence. Taking prasadam together at least once a day should be established. 6)Take your children seriously – parents shouldn’t too quickly disagree which will eventually result in caginess. 7) Teaching by own example - actions speak louder than words. "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues." (BG 3.21)

What we call the Moon travels around the Earth in 27.3 days and when pulling out your telescope you see the Moon like that, below. Sometimes the Moon is only 12000 miles away from Earth and sometimes 29000 miles because Moon orbits in an eclipse.

Answers: click here

Looks like to find those who study the life of saints more carefully are not anymore to be found in the temples but among people like below, Leckram Gunnasaya. That’s Life The lone fighter who won every battle: Swami Prabhupada http://www.mauritiustimes.com/070907gunna.htm Friday 07 Sept 2007 Most people retire at 60. Some go on working beyond that but few would dream of starting a big project of an international dimension when they are almost seventy. However, there are always exceptional people around ready to perform extraordinary things. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada belonged to that category. The unusual but most motivating and captivating story of his undaunted faith and perseverance should be read by all. Abhay – Hindi for fearless -- Charan was born in Calcutta on the first of September 1896, which in that year was the day following Janmastami, the Hindu festival celebrating the advent of Lord Krishna. As a little boy Abhay would regularly visit the Radha-Govinda temple that lay just across the street from the family home. Abhay’s father was a deeply religious person and wanted his son to become a devotee of Lord Krishna and learn all there is to know about religion. The Radha-Govinda temple’s being just across the street was no mere coincidence. Abay’s mother, however, had different dreams for her beloved son. She wanted him to go for further studies in the UK and to embrace the profession of a lawyer. The same fear that had got hold of young Gandhi’s mother when proposals of sending her son to the UK were being debated had gripped Abhay’s father. He was afraid his son would be adversely influenced by British culture. While the mother visualised the son addressing an austere Court of Law in a lawyer’s gown, the father saw him preaching the Bhagavad Gita to devotees in the garb of a sadhu. When the time came, however, there was no difficulty in making the choice, for Abhay Charan would lose his mother when he was only sixteen. He had to adapt and adjust to the new situation arising out of this sad event. But some independence it brought helped his social and spiritual growth. His father had taught him about the immortality of the soul and how things happened only by the will of Lord Krishna. He learnt to have total faith in the Lord and to depend wholly on him. At school, the young man would be influenced by the call of patriots like Subhas Chandra Bose who was studying at the same Scottish Church College and Mohandas Gandhi whose revolutionary ideas were doing the rounds in the country. What impressed him about Gandhi was his unwavering faith in the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. The simple living and high thinking of Gandhi made a big impact on the mind of the young student. It should be mentioned that Abhay, according to tradition, was married while still at secondary school. However, the couple would live separately for a number of years. One day, a school friend almost coerced him into meeting a sadhu – a holy man. That forced meeting with the Sadhu, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, would have an everlasting impact on the mind of the young student who would become a disciple of the Swami a decade later. Abhay was told that all governments were temporary and that man-made systems could not help humanity. There was only Krishna Consciousness, explained the Guru, that could help humanity move forward on the right path. However, Abhay’s wife and children did not share his views on devotional service and would not even join him whenever satsanghs – spiritual gatherings – were held at home. The Guru, on the other hand, held Abhay in very great esteem and judged him capable of great things in the service of the Lord. One request he made to him had a particularly deep impresson on him: “If you ever get money,” said the Guru, “print books.” Before his death in 1937, his Guru asked him to spread the message of the Gita in English instead of the traditional Hindi and Bengali. Obeying his Guru’s injunctions, he would, the following year, write articles and publish a magazine entitled, ‘Back to Godhead’. Money saved from his business would go into the publication of the magazine. Impressed by his writings on religion and spirituality, some religious people decided to award him the title, “Bhaktivedanta”. His business having failed, his relations were strained at home. After 36 years of married life, he took the decision to leave his family and to spend the rest of his life preaching the message of Lord Chaitanya. He was 58 years old and penniless and had therefore to borrow money from a friend to enable him to travel to an ashram where he sought shelter. He faced difficult times. He had no fixed residence and no money for food. Translating the Bhagavatam into English and getting it published had become his priority but what could be achieved without money. He solicited various friends, businessmen and politicians in vain. However, he would manage to write articles, edit them and publish his magazine ‘Back to Godhead’ that he would sell in the streets of Delhi in order to pay the printer. Now though the books were ready, he had no money to pay for the ticket to go abroad. Many people were contacted but none was willing to help. Because of his advanced age – he was already 69 -- the owner of one shipping company who had once given the Swami a sympathetic ear no longer wanted to take him on board her ship. She expressed doubts about such an old man preaching the Gita in a foreign country amid uncooperative people. However Swami was made of a different mettle. He was never known to give up easily. After lots of solicitation, he was, at last, offered a ticket. He also got one Mr Gopal settled in Pennsylvania ready to sponsor his stay in the U.S. Without the sponsor, he could not have got his visa. An old man, with no one there to bid him goodbye, boarded the Jaladuta on 13 August 1965. What sort of welcome would await a Swami with a shaven head, wearing an orange robe and with beads adorning his neck? Lord Chaitanya had predicted the chanting of Hare Krishna in different towns of the world. Was that prediction going to be realised? On the 19^th of September, the ship reached New York. Swamiji, who had celebrated his 69^th birthday alone in the ship, did not quite know what to do or where to go. Fortunately for him, his sponsor, Mr Gopal had sent somebody to meet him. He had but forty rupees in cash and another twenty dollars received from the sale of three books on the ship. He stayed in Butler and with the help of the Gopals met small groups in the evenings. After staying there for about one month, Swamiji decided to proceed to New York. He would encounter lots of difficulties before he got a small stable group with whose help he would launch and register ISKCON – International Society for Krishna Consciousness. From that time there was no looking back. Friends, public and private figures, businessmen and capitalists in India were contacted on various occasions to help towards the setting up of a temple in New York. But none was ready to help such an old man. The lone fighter would persevere and he would build dream temples besides publishing his famous ‘Back to Godhead’. After the initial tests that he passed successfully, Krishna started backing each and every move of his. Swamiji’s words now had power: power to attract, power to motivate; power to transform. People, rich and poor and of every nationality, would flock in thousands to listen to his discourses; those who shunned him in the beginning started courting him -- for ISKCON had by then become a famous and respected international organisation. Though he had become a well-known and respected figure, Swami Prabhupad had still to fight on several fronts for some of his plans to take shape. An epic battle had to be fought before the land at Juhu beach, Mumbai, where the marvellous Krishna temple and a five- star hotel stand could be purchased. Born near a Krishna temple, Swami Prabhupad dedicated his life disseminating the message of the Bhagawad Gita. He gave up his physical body in Vrindavan, a place that had been sanctified by Krishna in person. Some minutes before undertaking his voyage back to Godhead on 14 November 1977, Swamiji was still giving instructions to those around while the air was vibrating with the chanting of the holy names of Krishna. Could there have been a more beautiful life and death? The penniless Swami who could not afford a ticket to New York by ship spent the last decade of his life touring the world by plane and building everywhere gorgeous temples dedicated to his Lord. So many followers in such a short time, so many temples of great architectural beauty built within a decade in so many diverse places is an achievement few can hope to emulate. Getting George Harrison, a much sought-after superstar of the famous Beatles Group to make a Hare Krishna record that would set the world chanting “Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Ram Hare Ram Ram Ram Hare Hare“ was no mean achievement either. Leckram Gunnasaya

Well, you're of course right this doesnt look really bonafide - seems like while the different Vaishnava groups are in odds with each other a third party attacks from the back side to drag present Vaishnavism even more into questionableness. Prabhupada also immediately pointed out when things got polluted: Prabhupada: Regarding the two books you have mentioned, Sri Ramacharitamanasa by Goswami Tulasi das is not very authorized, and Ramayana is authorized. One thing is though, you have got enough other books to study. Did you appear in the examination held on Janmastami Day? Why should you go to Ramayana when you have got Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam and Teachings of Lord Caitanya? Don't divert your attention in that way. Prabhupada (Letter, September 6, 1969): The author of Ramacharitamanasa, Goswami Tulasi das, has a tint of Mayavadi philosophy. He belongs to the Ramananda Sampradaya. They are mixed up combination of personalist and impersonalist. Therefore, the author is not considered as pure Vaisnava. Pure Vaisnava is free from all material contamination of fruitive activities and mental speculation. The pure Vaisnava is simply, purely disposed to transcendental loving service to Krishna. The pure Vaisnava rejects anything which has no pure idea of serving the Personality of Godhead. I hope this will meet you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Devotees fighting over to keep cows in residential areas where it is not permitted for everyone to keep cows. Case of karmis behaving demoniac toward cow protection program or it is that devotees are not keeping cows appropriate to the species? Cow controversy: Angelica, NY Sacred Cow Krishnas tagged w/192 cow http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v<WBR>=9CiIZcAyvvk Angelica, NY Stephen Voith exposes ViilageGov't's hypocrisy http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v<WBR>=uRHjXaE5iGQ Angelica, NY's KKK-Mayor and DA empower attacks on children http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v<WBR>=THbnWlyHPVU Bheema Kirtan Angelica, NY-style http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v<WBR>=vM4gFIko0NU

The only road to happiness? <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="datetime">Chant ‘Hare Krishna’, the only road to happiness: ISKCON Guru </td></tr><tr><td align="left" valign="top" width="71%">Abhishek Behl, Merinews The real purpose of Krishna's appearance was to convey how one can take part in loving affairs with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Reciprocations of loving affairs in ecstasy are possible only in Vrindavana (Srimad Bhagavatam 9.24.66 purport). </td></tr><tr><td align="left" valign="top">06 September 2007, Thursday http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=126255 </td></tr></tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td align="left" valign="top"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" valign="top" width="91%"> <!-- description --> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="bigtext"> ALL MEN have equal potential for bhakti and every one can attain the highest level of consciousness if the name of the god is chanted with devotion, said Srimad Radha Govind Das Goswami Maharaj, one of the most respected Gurus of International Society for Krishna Consciousness popularly known as ISKCON. “If one wants to attain real happiness then he must chant the mahamantra ‘Hare Krishna’ as Vedas describe it as the most effective means of self purification in this age,” said Govind Das Maharaj while speaking to merinews on the occasion of Krishna Janamashtami at Vrindavan, adding “Nam mein shakti hai aur kalyug mein bhagwan ke nam ka hi sahara hai (there’s power in the name and in these modern times god’s name is the only respite)”. The problem which man faces today is the fact that bhakti is not considered as the part and parcel of our lives, said Govind Maharaj, asserting that this was a wrong premise as bhakti is an integral part of our lives. As a result of this conditioning, he said, that people today are living at a basic level which is not much above the level of animals. The only solution of this problem is to know and love the lord and only this will help human beings to move into the higher realms and reach the stage of self-actualization. The key to spiritual salvation lies in the teachings of Srimad Bhagwat Gita, “Sri Krishna encompasses all fields of life and humanity can learn a lot simply by deeply studying the various facets of his life,” adds Govind Das Ji Maharaj. Dwelling on the four pillars of Dharma, Maharaj explained that it had four pillars which comprise Truth, Kindness, Purity and Tapasya, “it is only by practicing all these values and performing the true karmas that man can attain self-realization.” When asked why there is so much violence in the world in the name of religion, Maharaj categorically said, “No religion preaches violence and bloodshed, it is only the followers wishing to impose their personal faith and creed that create trouble in this world.” “Jahan daya nahi woh dharma nahi (where there is no sympathy there is no religion)” he stated, adding that killing innocent people in the name of religion was absurd and beyond the pale of humanity. Explaining the contradiction between violence during Mahabharata war and the present turmoil, the spiritual Guru says that innocent people were not killed during the war. Soldiers and their commanders, who fought the war were performing their karma and no innocent person was killed during the entire war. However, in the present scenario innocent people, who have nothing to do with a war are killed, moreover, the killers are also innocent men and women, who are being used by their political and religious masters for their own selfish ends. For people, who are lazy and not willing to work hard there is no way forward for them, warned the sage, concluding “To understand knowledge of self realization one must approach a genuine spiritual master, just as one learns the essence of any subject from a perfected practitioner.” </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="12"> </td></tr></tbody></table>

Thoughtful article quoting Prabhupada, "Our poor embodied souls often fail to get this message." <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="4" align="left" valign="top" width="100%"><arttitle>We're authors of our own bewilderment</arttitle> 6 Sep, 2007, 0510 hrs IST,Vithal C Nadkarni, </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="10">http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Editorials/Were_authors_of_our_own_bewilderment/articleshow/2341916.cms </td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="4" style="padding-bottom: 10px;" align="center" valign="top" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="left" valign="top"><!--google_ad_region_start=article--> Pope Benedict has described Mother Teresa’s decades-long crisis of faith as "the silence of God", a phenomenon the Pontiff says is "known to all believers". Referring to the book of letters detailing the tormented state of Mother Teresa’s faith, the Pope says this isn’t unusual. All Catholics have to contend with the silence of God, which so sorely tested even the saintly Mother despite all her charity and force of faith, he has added. By the Pope’s own admission, the cat is finally out of the bag: hereafter it would be extremely disingenuous to claim special access to the Big Boss who allegedly lives beyond the Pearly Gates. Nor should you believe those who claim to have a hotline to heaven. This also rules out such prospects as barters with God, or bribing Him into benevolence with your little acts of piety. Does this sound pitiless? But that’s exactly how the universal cookie crumbles, even according to Bhagwad Gita. That’s precisely the revolutionary message of the fourteenth verse from fifth chapter of the Lord’s Song: “Of course there is no God,” Krishna says to Arjuna, at least not in the sense that countless generations of priests and shamans have led you up to believe. If at all there’s something, it’s what the Gita is willing to concede as “embodied consciousness”, which Swami Prabhupada, founder of the Hare Krishna movement, translates as “the master of the city of your body”. “He does not create activities, nor does he induce people to act. He also does not create the fruits of action,” the verse goes on to elaborate. All that pops out from the tendencies inherent in material nature. The verse that follows makes even more revolutionary assertions: The Supreme Spirit lies indifferent beyond all epithets and categories; it does not care for your sinful activities nor is it pleased by your pious acts. “(Thus) the Lord neither hates nor likes anyone, though He may appear to,” says Swami Prabhupada. Our poor embodied souls often fail to get this message. Enslaved by our own desire to escape from supreme consciousness, we become authors of our own bewilderment and grow forgetful of our own essential nature. This can only heighten the so-called darkness of the soul suffered by embodied beings, for ignorance has knowledge enthralled (ajnanavruttam jnanam tena mhuyanti jantavah) in its coils. The way out of the impasse is through faith and enlightenment. </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Another thing is, although the Bible doesnt teach immortality of soul, suddenly, Lucifer who was once an angel in God's Kingdom, becomes the eternal Satan? Lucifer became terribly frustrated in God's Kingdom and out of protest left to become Lucifer or Satan?

Mayadevi came to test Haridas Thakur's determination for three days. So, yes, we start the apple rolling, but Mayadevi makes the whole view irresistible attractive unless we become real Vaishnavas. People were very kind to Haridas Thakur, giving him food and tried to serve him in every respect. He went to Shantipur, to Advaita Acarya’s home. But in the cave where Haridas Thakur was living, Mayadevi came to test him and took Harinam from him. Mayadevi tested him for three nights and wanted to make an illusion, but Haridas Thakur could not be polluted by illusion. Then Mayadevi took shelter and said, “Lord Siva gave me Rama Nama. Please, you give me Krishna Nama.”

It seems there's something personified which is called, Maya devi, and as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja points out in his purport, below, "Even in casting His glance He has no contact with the deluding energy because the spiritual (cit) potency Rama then carries the function of His glance as His unpolluted ever-submissive potency." In other words, Maya devi is something like opposed to Krishna, something like Satan is described, who tries to keep us away from surrendering to Krishna. TEXT 7 mayayaramamanasya na viyogas taya saha atmana ramaya reme tyakta-kalam sisrksaya Krishna never consorts with His illusory energy. Still her connection is not entirely cut off from the Absolute Truth. When He intends to create the material world the amorous pastime, in which He engages by consorting with His own spiritual [cit] potency Rama by casting His glance at the deluding energy in the shape of sending His time energy, is an auxiliary activity. PURPORT by His Divine Grace Srila Bjaktisiddhanta Maharaja Mayadevi and Buddha's birth The illusory energy has no direct contact with Krishna, but has got indirect contact. Vishnu the prime cause, lying in the Causal Ocean, the plenary portion of Maha-Sankarsana who has His scat in Maha-Vaikuntha the sphere of Krishna’s own extended transcendental pastimes, casts His glance towards the deluding energy. Even in casting His glance He has no contact with the deluding energy because the spiritual (cit) potency Rama then carries the function of His glance as His unpolluted ever-submissive potency. The deluding energy as the maidservant of the spiritual (cit) potency Rama, serves the manifested plenary portion of Godhead consorted with Rama, the time energy representing the force of activity and instrumentality of Rama; hence there is found the process of masculinity or the creative force. Bs5.8

Today it read in the newspapers, "Pope Benedict XVI Warmly Greets Exorcist Convention - It goes on to denounce Satan as “Prince of the World” and “Enemy of Human Salvation.” It ends: “Go back, Satan.” A Vatican university announced last Thursday that for the second year running it will hold a course on exorcism and Satanism for Roman Catholic priests. ... The four-month course, which begins in October." In other words, for quite some millions of people the evil of this world originates in Satan. But what do the Vedas say? When for example examining the cause of the kurukshetra war, where 64,000,000 people were killed within 18 days, Krishna did not say anything that Satan has to be expelled, but instead, Krishna told Arjuna to give up non-violence and fight to re-establish religous principle. Prabhupada: And the battle was finished within eighteen days, not lingering for some years. No. Fight to the best capacity and finish the business. Somebody was criticizing me that “Swamiji, you are introducing this Hare Krishna movement. People are becoming coward. They simply chant Hare Krishna.” So I replied that “You will see the power of Hare Krishna movement in due course of time.” There were two battles in India: the battle between Ravana and Rama, Rama-Ravana, the battle of Ramayana; and another battle was Battle of Kuruksetra. And in these two battles the hero was Vaishnava and Vishnu. In the Rama-Ravana battle Lord Ramacandra was there and His devotee Hanuman, Vajrangaji. Similarly, in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra, Krishna was there and His devotee Arjuna was there. So Vaishnavas, they do not simply chant Hare Krishna. If there is need, they can fight under the guidance of Vishnu and become victorious. A Vaishnava’s one qualification is… Out of the twenty-six qualifications, one qualification is daksa, expert. If there is need of fighting, they can fight like very expert. That is also needed. Krishna consciousness does not mean one-sided. Krishna as all-pervading, the Krishna consciousness movement also should be all-pervading. It should touch everything, even politics, sociology, everything, if required. That is the aim. Because Krishna’s mission is: yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [bg. 4.7], paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [bg. 4.8]. There is two mission: not only to give protection to the devotees, but also to kill the demons. To kill the demons, that is one side. So the devotees of Krishna should be trained up both ways: not only to give protection to the devotees, to give them encouragement, but if need be, they should be prepared to kill the demons. That is Vaishnavism. It is not cowardism. It is not cowardism. When need be. Generally, a Vaishnava is non-violent. Just like Arjuna. In the beginning he was non-violent, Vaishnava. He said, “Krishna, what is the use of this fighting? Let them enjoy.” So by nature he was non-violent, but he was induced by Krishna to become violent, that “Your non-violence will not help. You become violent. You kill them. I want.” So if Krishna wants we shall be prepared to become violent also. And Krishna, that is open secret, that paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [bg. 4.8]. Two business of Krishna, two side. So those who are devotees of Krishna, they should be trained up both ways, they should be prepared. But generally, there is no question of becoming violent, unnecessarily. As the modern politicians, unnecessarily they declare war, a Vaishnava does not do so. No, unnecessarily, there is no need of war. When it was completely impossible to settle up the things between the Pandavas and the Kauravas, then Krishna said, “All right, then there must be fight.” When Duryodhana declined to spare even a portion of land holding the sucyagra, the point of a needle… he refused that “I cannot spare even so much land which can hold the point of a needle.” Then the war was declared. There is no question of settlement. Otherwise, Krishna requested that “These five Pandavas, they are ksatriyas. They cannot become merchant or brahmana. Brahmana’s profession is that he can take charity from others. A sannyasi can take charity from others. Not a ksatriya or a grhastha. No. That is not allowed. “So they are ksatriyas; they cannot take the professions of a brahmana, neither they can take the profession of a mercantile man, business man. They must have some land so that rule over, take taxation. And that is their living means. So spare only five villages to these five brothers and settle up.” But Duryodhana replied, “No, Sir. What to speak of five villages, we cannot spare even so much land which can hold the point of needle.” Then the war was declared. So Vaishnava, they are non-violent. But if need be, they can become violent for Krishna’s sake. (ACBSP - London, July 11, 1973)

It somehow makes sense to judge if this is "Prabhupada's watered-down preaching strategy to address a certain class of brain capacity", for each and every case individually. First of all, Prabhupada wanted his lectures to be recorded, his letters to be archived. Otherwise Prabhupada would have said, this is not meant for future listening, it is meant for this specific time, place and circumstance, desa, kal, patra. For example, what is vedic culture. Is surelly valid today: "So he performed a yajna to get a son who could kill Dronacarya. That son is this Draupada. So Dronacarya knew that “Drupada Maharaja has got his son. In future he would kill me.” Still, when he was offered to become his disciple, to learn military art, he accepted, “Yes.” That means the brahmanas were so liberal: “When he is coming as my disciple, never mind, he would kill me in future. That doesn’t matter. But I must give him teaching.” Therefore this word is used, dhimata, very intelligent: “He has learned the military science from you just to kill you.” Dhimata, tava sisyeya. “Your disciple, he has arranged.” This is the pointing out. So that he may be angry: “This rascal has learned from me and he wants to kill me?” But no. Duty is duty. After all, everyone will die; nobody will exist. So nobody should be afraid of death. This is Vedic civilization. Death is inevitable. “As sure as death.” Who can avoid death? So being afraid of death, we should not deviate from our duties, real duty. That is Vedic civilization. So Duryodhana wanted to point out, “That this boy, your disciple, he… It is fixed up that he’s meant for killing you, and he has arranged nicely military phalanx just to defeat you. And he has learned this art from you.” (Prabhupada - London, July 9, 1973)

No goal to Maya - don't allow maya to score another goal! Prabhupada: You have seen football playing. The football has no place. As soon as comes, somebody’s feet, he kicks. He goes to another body. He kicks. He’s another body—kicking. His only situation is being kicked, football. So we are just like football. We are being kicked up. Now I am American. Next time I shall be kicked up to China. Maybe. And from China, I will be kicked up to India. And from India, I shall be kicked up to Burma or kicked up to another place. This is going on. We do not know how we are being kicked up like a football from one place to another, one place to another. This is all false notion. How long I shall remain here? Therefore this is the only way, Krishna consciousness, to become perfect. Perfection means to attain spiritual life, eternity, blissful, and full of knowledge. That is waiting us. That is waiting us. Why should we refuse it? It is not a theory. Don’t think that Bhagavad-gita is something, imaginary thing. No. People have taken to it. They have practiced. They have attained success. It is coming on since a very, very long time. It was first advised to the sun-god. Then, after many, many millions of years, again, five thousand years before, it was advised to Arjuna. So it is coming down. It is accepted by all great acaryas of India, and it is being followed, still being followed. So take it. Don’t be destroyed. Take to Krishna consciousness, and you will be saved. You will be saved from this destruction in the material… New York, December 20, 1966

Worshipping Krishna - Child, Lover, God, Philosopher <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td bgcolor="#eeeeee">Posted : Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:37:27 GMT</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#f5f5f5">Author : Indo Asian News Service </td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#fbfbfb">Category : Culture (General)</td></tr></tbody></table>http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/101841.html New Delhi, Sep 4 Millions of Hindus in India and abroad Tuesday celebrated Janmashtami, the birthday of Lord Krishna, one of the most popular Hindu gods, with special prayers, spiritual discourses, dance and music.The day started with people thronging Krishna temples, with devotion in their hearts and prayers on their lips.Many temples wore a festive look, bedecked with flowers and illuminated by lamps. Several places of worship also had floats depicting scenes from Krishna's childhood.As ever, the maximum rush of devotees was at Mathura, the lord's birthplace some 135 km south of New Delhi.Mathura had pilgrims coming from all over the country. Temples in the holy city were richly decorated and they liberally distributed sweets to everyone.In New Delhi, the Birla temple saw people queuing up right from early morning. Generous offerings of fruits, flowers and sweets were made to the gods.Celebrations were on in many households too -- with kheer prepared for the special day. Many observed a fast.'Barring children, all members of our family are fasting to celebrate the Lord's birthday. We visited the Birla temple and Akshardham temple,' said Ajit Kumar Nayak, a teacher.Krishna is one of the most lovable gods. Famed for his naughty antics as a child and his flirtatious playfulness, Krishna is at the same time believed to be the ultimate saviour and protector.'To a foreigner or a non-Hindu the escapades of the child Kanha, or the dalliances of Murari, could appear a trifle bizarre. But the attraction of Krishna lies precisely in this exuberance of his multifaceted personality,' says author Pavan Varma in 'Krishna: The Playful Divine'.Hundreds of devotees gathered at Delhi's International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) temple and Akshardham temple, many dancing to the beat of drums and chanting 'Krishna Krishna hare hare...''We are welcoming every one to join the celebrations,' an ISKON temple official said.

In order to cut energy costs, the government turned out the light at the end of tunnel. Déjà-vu descended on the political scene, making it so dark that a cat needs a torch to get around. Now they tell us shortage of food is ahead, the food prices have to be risen sharply. The simple vedic peace formular is to engage people in producing food - global joblessness of millions of people finished. Are politicians able to grasp this simple peace formular? Although the big religions have stopped preaching, people gradually find out that our politicians are a gang of thieves. Prabhupada: Suppose you have stolen something from somebody else and if you want to enjoy, you’ll be always in trouble because the police search will be there, and as soon as you are caught, you’ll be in trouble. Similarly, the nature is the police agent of God. As soon as you want to gratify your sense by utilizing the property of God, then you’ll be in trouble. The nature will inflict miseries upon you. This is the law of nature. It is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gita, daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [bg. 7.14] This gunamayi, maya, this material nature of three modes of nature, gunamayi… Guna means modes of nature. This modes of nature means it is a combination of three modes: modes of passion, modes of goodness, modes of ignorance. So therefore it is called gunamayi maya. So daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya. You cannot surpass the stringent laws of material nature. That is not in your power. Just like however stout and strong you are, when you are under police custody, oh, no strength will help you. You’ll be offered all kinds of tribulations. Similarly, the nature is very strong. So long we shall go on utilizing God’s property illegally and encroach upon others’, I mean to say, possession, then there cannot be any peace. If you want peace at all, then you have to accept that “Everything belongs to God and I can use after offering Him: ‘Accepting that this belongs to You, God, kindly… You have sent me all these things for my subsistence. Oh, it is Your thing. Kindly You first of all taste it. Then I shall take Your prasādam.’ ” This is Krishna consciousness. Lord is supplying you everything. He will not eat whatever is given to you. It is for you. Simply just acknowledge. Just acknowledge. Oh, can you not acknowledge even, “Oh, God, You have given us so nice things for eating. Please, You taste”? ACBSP - New York, Decemeber 19, 1966 http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/661212BG.NY.htm?i=1966