muralidhar_das

What particular things in Sri Krishna Samhita do you think are unacceptable or not promoted by Saraswati Thakura?

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura DID advocate the ideas taught in Sri Krishna Samhita. I've said this before to you, Lowborn (and Kula). Should I repeat post the quotes? Laulyam posted Saraswati Thakur's article about Kaliya on the other thread, where Saraswati Thakur said that Kaliya and the forest fire represent "CUNNING AND MALICE". This way of seeing the Bhagavatam is straight from Sri Krishna Samhita. I can also post articles by Saraswati Thakur describing how there is evolution of souls through stages of growth, and that Narasimha worship is suitable for half-civilized men. This also is straight from Sri Krishna Samhita. In Sri Krishna Chaitanya, by professor Sanyal, which has a foreward by Saraswati Thakur, we read numerous chapters based on ideas in Sri Krishna Samhita. Srila Prabhupada, on the other hand, preferred to promote a "literalist" view of the stories in the Veda and Puranas. But again and again in the writing of Bhaktivinode Thakur he states that the Veda is the words of the ancient sages and that anyone who attains transcendental knowledge can find the essence of the Veda.

It is OM that is radiating forth the entire cosmos, from minerals to humankind. As sparks burst from a bonfire or as rays of light are emitted by the sun, the entire cosmos is produced by OM, the Everlasting and radiant Reality.

Yes the person(s) succeeding Srila Govinda Maharaj as Acharya of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math will be a disciple of Srila Govinda Maharaj. This was all decided long ago.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj was a well wisher of ISKCON and he wanted to see it become successful. So when lots of dissatisfied and disenfranchised ISKCON people came to see him such as Hamsaduta, Jayatirtha and Bhakti Caru he tried to advise them how to continue their service and become successful in life. At the same time Srila Sridhar Maharaj was very determined to continue his own Parampara and said that in his own Math only Srila Govinda Maharaj is authorized as his successor. He was asked by Prabhupada, "Please come and live with me in Mayapura", but Srila Sridhar Maharaj didn't want to do that. He regarded Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami as his friend, but at the same time Srila Sridhar Maharaj wanted his own disciples to continue his Parampara - totally separate from the Parampara of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. You don't see pictures of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami on the alter in any temple of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math. You only see the pictures of Srila Sridhar Maharaj and his chosen successor.

Nobody I know thinks anyone else among his Godbrothers could have achieved the wonderful things Prabhupada achieve. He was SUPER special Gurudev says that and Guru Maharaj said it too. Yajabara Maharaj was the one who said first of all that Prabhupada is a "saktyavesha avatara". Lots of others praised him to the max. What more can I say? Here is a picture taken at Mayapura. Notice that Guru Maharaj has lots of bowls of prashad. He wanted to taste every preparation offered that day to the Deities served by Prabhupada's disciples. the person on the bottom right, next to Prabhupada, with his back to the camera, is Srila Govinda Maharaj It looks like Damodara Maharaj and Satish Prabhu (Nayanananda das Babaji) sitting beside Guru Maharaj, but I'm not really sure.

KB why can't you be a bit more consistent. One minute you are saying none of the disciples of Saraswati Thakura were doing the right thing besides Srila Prabhupada because only Prabhupada went out and preached to the masses. The next thing, you are saying that there should be more bhajananandis. The bhajananandi's get abused for not being "preahers", and then you start saying that there should be more of them. Agggghhhhh... you can be so annoying sometimes!

Vikram are you connected to the sevaits at Radha-Syamasundara? I know Krishna Ballabha and Mahesh. My Gurudev took us to have lunch at Krishna Ballabha's house adjoining the Mandir one time. I gave the first donation for the restoration work to complete the new temple of Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami which is beside Radha-Syamasundara and Krishna Ballabha's house. It was a great honour to give that donation, because Krishnadas Kaviraj wrote most of the Chaitanya Charitamrta there.

There will be many Acharyas in the future.

For your information... Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj left his body before Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami went to America. The preaching career of Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj ended before Srila Prabhupada's career began. In the twenty years that Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj was doing the service of preaching and initiating disciples, he opened 24 temples.

I guess things would be better in the world if everyone followed what they read in Bhagavad gita As It Is. Here is one memorable statement in a purport from Bhagavad gita As It Is (16.7) Let's try and introduce the Laws of Manu Samhita into society. That is what Mahaprabhu and Nitai preached when they went from door to door, isn't it? Let's agitate to change society so that women are no longer able to vote. Let's agitate to change society so that the Manu Samhita and Prabhupada's books are the Law Books for humankind for the next 10,000 years.

Blah blah blah The Gaudiya Math was never ruined. Many Missions have branched out of the original Gaudiya Math and they are doing fine. This idea that Gaudiya Math devotees are simply sitting around waiting for people to drop money into the collection box is ridiculous. Worthy of ridicule. ISKCON has its life member programs and other fundraising ventures that it employs to milk money from Indian people. If there were no Hindus in the West, where would ISKCON get supporters and money from? Western people in countries that were once ruled by the sannyasi kings (maharajas) who had control of the scam-kirtan movement (pick club), the ordinary people who live in those countries think Hare Krsna is a cult. And they are right! Look at the scandals such as Kirtnanananda in Amerika, Bhavananda in Oz, Hamsaduta in Germany, Bhagavan in France, Jayatirtha in UK, Harikesa in USSR... The society these criminals created is a disturbance to the Sankirtan Movement of Mahaprabhu. That society is not "leading" the sankirtan movement. It is instead a degrading movement that has taken the pure ideal of sankirtan and transformed it into a scam-kirtan that generates wages for TP's and bell-ringers whose only achievement in life is that they are able to write the letters ACBSP after their name when they write down their name.

Wow I've never seen that before Amazing

Sri Chaitanya came and showed the world Krishna. If we learn about Krishna from Sri Chaitanyadeva we will see Krishna is real. Many disciples of Sri Chaitanya saw Krishna in their spiritually awakened consciousness. Sri Chaitanya said the Bhagavata Purana teaches us how to realize the REALITY of Krishna and many people followed Sri Chaitanya's advice and became Krishna Conscious. If the other old books are corrupted, what does it matter??????

The ancient literature was kept by men in their houses for a thousand years, and in that time some of the ancient texts were altered. Indeed some texts that purport to be ancient were written by men in relatively recent times. However, when Sri Chaitanyadeva appeared on Earth 500 years ago he showed humankind that God is not just a fable but a living Person. 500 years ago, Krishna Himself reappeared on Earth as Sri Chaitanyadeva and uplifted even very degraded men and made even them into saints with hearts filled with bliss. If you study the life and teachings of Sri Chaitanyadeva you will be amazed, and your heart will also be filled with happiness.

simply by PURE chanting of the holy name the nine processes of proper sadhana bhakti can be fulfilled That is the point I'm making Look at the Bengali and study what Kaviraj Gosai's actual words are. In fact he doesn't mention the ten offences at all. The point Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami is actually making - try and understand what he is actually saying. Here are the two verses that precede verse 8.16. The meaning becomes clear if you study what he says. Without deep realization, our chanting can continue as a kind of muttering for hundreds of lifetimes. Here is the commentary to this of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur: Can you see what he is saying? We need to REALIZE or UNDERSTAND the merciful gift of Sri Gauranga. If we don't have a proper understanding of the teachings of Sri Chaitanya but instead we simply make the shadow (abhasa) of the sound of "Hari" on our lips, we will not attain Krishna's feet. And right now I am not chanting the Pure Name. Not 16 rounds of it. Not one. Not even one Nama. I am a neophyte. By Pure Chanting a person is doing greater service than by following the other 8 forms of sadhana. But the Chanting must be Pure.

This story about Narasingha being defeated and that Virabhadra presented Siva the skin and skull of Narasingha is told in the Siva Purana. What does this tell us? That this Purana (and others) are written by unenlightened, sectarian men who were trying to prove the supremacy of their ista-deva.

There are three types of bhakti. Sadhana bhakti, Bhava Bhakti, Prema Bhakti. All forms of bhakti are proper. But sadhana bhakti is the "practice" of service and bhava bhakti is the awakenment of Love of God. Prema Bhakti is the full manifestation of Love of God. Sadhana bhakti involves chanting Krishna-nama but that chanting is being done by people who by definition are not yet in the stage of having "LOve of God" and "divya-jnana". If they get Love of God they are not doing sadhana bhakti anymore, they are situated in Bhava.

Suddha bhakti. The type of bhakti performed by Prahlad, Arjuna, Uddhava etc. Pure bhakti: when one thinks Viṣṇu and no one else to be the only object of love that is, when someone is not attached to their body or anything to do with their body, but their attachment is only for Krishna and his pure devotees, that is pure devotion. Continuing our reading of CC, we then see this: The stage of service called bhajana-kriya means that you do the activity (kriya) of bhajana, or in other words you do the work of chanting Krishna's name. This stage is the stage you enter after taking diksa. I can post the statements that confirm this. Do I need to? But anyhow, when you begin bhajana-kriya you are not filled with transcendental knowledge (divya-jnana) rather you are working towards getting that. You have a small vision of divya-jnana but the full thing is not revealed until you are free from anarthas (anartha nivritti). Diksa is the dawning of active service, not the full manifestation or attainment of "divine realization". See Haridasa Thakurs' explanation of "namabhasa" to understand this more clearly. bye

Theist, it doesn't make sense to quote just this verse and to disregard Adi 8.16-18

CC very clearly states that someone may chant the Holy Name for hundreds of lifetimes but if they do not follow the proper method of devotional service they will not attain the goal of life: <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Muralidhar Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 8.16 bahu janma kare yadi śravaṇa, kīrtana tabu ta' nā pāya kṛṣṇa-pade prema-dhana If one is infested with the ten offenses in the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, despite his endeavor to chant the holy name for many births, he will not get the love of Godhead that is the ultimate goal of this chanting. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Therefore the Acaryas recommend that people accept initiation according to the established method given in the scriptures. But if you or anyone else simply love to chant Harinam then I'm not opposing that. I merely point out this verse in CC saying that it may take a person hundreds of lifetimes to attain Krishna Prema.

Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> grhita visnu diksako visnu pujaparo narah vaisnavo'bhihito'bhijnair itaro'smad avaisnavahch <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> A person who is initiated in Visnu mantras, and who is expert in worshiping Lord Visnu, such a person is known as a Vaisnava. Besides this, everyone else is an avaisnava. (Hari Bhakti Vilasa 1.55, quoting the Padma Purana) </td> </tr> </tbody></table> Yes it is hard for me to understand the direct meaning of this statement in Hari bhakti vilasa. I'm too dopey. Bye <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Yep, count me out too.

Theist, you asked me to respond to this and this Well, Mahaprabhu makes a distinction between chanting and all the other processes of sadhana bhakti. But then when someone does some of the other processes such as offering prayers or puja you will of course say some of the names of the Lord, and thus you will be "chanting". For example, before doing archan (puja) you will do arcamana while saying "om sri kesavaya namah". Since Deity worship and other practices also involve "chanting" why isn't Deity worship considered to be better than doing chanting alone? In Deity worship you are making offerings of flowers etc and you are not just making sounds with your lips! Well, the answer is that the pure chanting of the holy name free from all offence and nama-abhasa is different from the chanting done by impure souls. Someone may chant the Holy Name for hundreds of lifetimes but if they do not follow the proper method of devotional service they will not attain the goal of life: Therefore, the Acaryas recommend that people accept initiation according to the established method given in the scriptures. Diksa is the process by which a person attains transcendental knowledge. In the Hari bhakti vilasa the process of diksa is described. There, you wil also see this verse: